# w_theory

created: 2002-11-06 10:57:52
subject: Valda the Blademaster
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<p>After Glimmers, some contention erupted over whether Eamon Valda was a blademaster or not - and what effect this would have on a potential duel with Galad. Of course, it'd be a pretty boring fight if Valda wasn't that good, but why did we even think he could be? And what proof did we have he was?  Only this. <br /><br />&quot;Two guards stood beside the...door...neither could have reached his sword in time to do any good, had Valda been an enemy...at least they did not try to stop him. He would have killed them both, if they had.&quot;<br />-<i>Glimmers</i>, p. 27<br /><br />This seems to imply that Valda is pretty good - he is confident he can take on two men and kill them, and he says it casually - but this just may be hyperbole on his part. Eamon Valda is, after all, a very arrogant man, and his estimation of his skill with a sword could be wrong. We have never seen him fight, and while he must be quite good if he has worked up to the level of Lord Captain, and now Lord Captain Commander, that isn't proof. RJ has tagged the number of blademasters on the main continent at any one time at about a hundred, which isn't really that many. Why should Valda be one of them? <br /><br />But there is some more (overlooked) proof, from Pedron Niall during the assassination scene in <i>A Crown of Swords.</i><br /><br />&quot;and he[Eamon Valda] had a sword in his hand, the heron-mark blade that he prized so highly&quot;<br />-<i>A Crown of Swords</i>, Prologue: Lightnings<br /><br />This very strongly implies Valda <i>is</i> a blademaster. It is true that he could have just got a heron-mark sword from someone else, like Rand, but it seems unlikely. The main reason for him to prize it highly is because he earnt it and the accolade of blademaster that goes with it. Otherwise, why would he let people know he had it, if he had not earnt it - unless it was one of those blades from the Age of Legends, and no Whitecloak would touch one of those, it would not be a thing to be proud of if he had not earnt it. Most of the blademasters' blades are very good, but ordinary steel, and I doubt someone would wield one without earning it. That is the reason he was so confident about taking on Asunawa's guards - he can actually walk the walk as well as talking the talk. But let's not forget, we haven't actually seen him fight yet, so we can't truly judge. And there does seem to be some difference in the level of blademaster - Gawyn, who can off three Aiel without taking a scratch (getting pretty good) still loses to Galad practically all the time...although that was in the Tower, before he had all that battle experience. Turak got downed by Rand who had almost no training. So even if Valda is a blademaster, he may not be up to the level of Our Heroes. Still, that duel does seem a little closer... <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Moridin_2000 says:</b> You're not getting any arguments from me. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> Seems pretty straightforward. I must admit that I'd never thought of this before. I'd always thought Galad would have killed him, but now I'm not so sure. I don't think Galad is Blademaster level just yet...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-11-07 11:30:52
subject: Rand will lead the White Tower
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<p>There's not much to go on here, but I was rereading TFoH, and came across something that set off a light in my head.  <br /><br />In &quot;What can be learned in Dreams,&quot; Egwene was remembering some significant dreams she had.  One of her dreams is described here:<br /><br />&quot;Rand sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken; that the owner was a woman was as much as she could pick out of that, and not a thing more.&quot;<br /><br />I've seen where most people have linked this to Elayne and the Lion Throne, but I would point out two things:<br /><br />1) It was clearly a chair.  She saw this in her dream.  The Lion throne is fairly well described when Elayne returns to Camelyn, and it is very much an ornate and ostentatious throne.  Whereas the Amyrlin does not use a throne at all, but a chair (something repeatedly described)<br /><br />2) Elayne was not murderously angry.  While she was ticked at Rand, &quot;As if any man would give her the Throne of Andor!&quot; I would not say she was what would be described as &quot;murderous.&quot;  Not to mention that he didn't take it from Elayne; he took it from Rahvin, or at the least Morgase.  Morgase definitely wasn't angry, and Rahvin is a man.<br /><br />Next, is Elaida's Foretelling that &quot;Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.&quot;  Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat, and she will be LIVID when Rand steps in and takes the leadership of the Aes Sedai from her.<br /><br />How will this happen?<br /><br />In AcoS, &quot;Unseen Eyes,&#8221; there is another Dream of Egwene's:<br /><br />&#8220;Straps at waist and shoulder held her tightly to the block, and the headsman's axe descended, but she knew that somewhere someone was running, and if they ran fast enough, the axe would stop. &#8220;<br /><br />No other place would she be more likely to be in an execution type of position than back at the White tower under Elaida or Alviarin.  I believe that Egwene's attempted coup will fail, and Rand will step in to save the day possibly with Logain, his Asha'man, and their Aes Sedai 'warders'.  Rand will take this opportunity to bring the two towers together.<br /><br />Also from ACoS, &quot;Unseen Eyes,&quot; is this passage:<br /><br />&#8220;She stood before an immense wall, clawing at it, trying to tear it down with her bare hands. It was not made of brick or stone, but countless thousands of discs, each half white and half black, the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai, like the seven seals that had once held the DO's prison shut...the wall stood strong however she beat at it. She could not tear it down. Maybe it was the symbol that was important. Maybe it was the Aes Sedai she was trying to tear down, the White Tower. Maybe....&#8221; (For RJ, that many maybes mean &#8220;definitely not.&#8221;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br />If it was the White tower, the wall should have been white.  The fact that it was the discs that had the ancient symbol speaks of a joining of men and women who channel.  As Amyrlin, Egwene would be very against a joining of that nature.<br /><br />Finally, there&#8217;s the trailer prophecy from LoC: <br /><br />&#8220;The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.&#8221;<br /><br />While this fits very well with the ending of the book, the White Tower had already been broken for the previous 2 books, so it cannot be directly related to Dumai Wells.  A few (at this point, about 15 or so) Aes Sedai do not a tower make.  Not only is the flame and dragon tooth Rand's sign, but it is also the sign from the AoL, when men and women who channeled worked together.  This has to happen again before TG.<br /><br />The main point is my first one, but the others do support it to some degree.<br /><br />Another possibility here is that Rand will take the White Tower BEFORE Egwene, and she must get it from him.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Good idea, but I really can't imagine Egwene becoming &quot;murderously&quot; angry even if she becomes livid.  Elaida, now...Elaida could become murderous; and if Egwene loses the coup, as you say, then Elaida, not Egwene, would be Amyrlin when Rand comes to save the day.<br /><br />Of course, there's also the possibility that Egwene wasn't being literal when she called the described the anger as &quot;murderous.&quot;  Or maybe this was RJ's way of showing that Elayne is a lot more angrier than she tells herself.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-11-12 08:31:08
subject: Mesaana = Sareitha
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<p>Ok, just something I found while reading through again in prep for <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>.<br /><br />There is an Aes Sedai hanging around with Cadsuane who could be Mesaana.  Her name is Sareitha.  In <i>Winter's Heart</i>, Chapter 7 Streets of Caemlyn, pg 191, Sareitha Sedai is described as...<br /><br />...&quot;barely 3 years Aes Sedai&quot;...  Around the time most of the Forsaken were getting free from the bore.<br /><br />...&quot;Sareitha's dark square face had not achieved agelessness, and she looked a prosperous merchant in her fine bronze-colored woolens with a large silver-andsapphires brooch holding her cloak.&quot;<br /><br />Now Jordan tends to throw these little one word clues around a lot.  How many other people has he actually connected BRONZE colored clothing to?<br /><br />She also has a warder.  This might seem to be a problem, but we see him described later in the chapter, pg. 204 as...<br /><br />&quot;He was what some sisters called 'fresh caught,' bonded less than a year....and he was very assiduous in his duties.&quot;<br /><br />This seems like an easy coverup for someone who is under compulsion, or maybe just a dark friend who is very afraid of the wrath of one of the Chosen.<br /><br />I have not spent too much time on this theory....maybe others out there will carry it further with the descriptions of what Mesaana looks like and other bits and pieces.<br /><br /></p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Hmmm, I hadn't seen this particular one yet, and it certainly is possible.  Perhaps some other theorists out there can run with this idea and see where it goes?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-11-12 19:00:51
subject: Callandor is stronger than it once was
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<p>I believe that Callandor is stronger than it once was because of this direct quote from <b>The Dragon Reborn</b>:<br /><br />&quot;A blazing shaft like the one Moiraine had made shot out of the shadows among the columns, straight toward his chest.His wrist twisted the sword instinctively.&quot;<br /><br />--Next paragraph--<br /><br />&quot;The shaft of light struck Callandor and parted on its edge, forking to stream past on either side.&quot;<br /><br />This 'shaft of light' must certainly be Balefire, yet it doesn't cause Callandor to cease to exist. Therefore Callandor must be made of Cuendillar(the only substance 'immune' to Balefire's effects). Since we've been told that heartstone only grows stronger when it is attacked, I believe that Callandor was made stronger by this incident.</p><p><b>Lauriana Sedai says:</b> This idea is certainly possible, but Callandor might have been able to withstand the assault simply because it was 'forged' using the One Power (or for any number of other reasons). If your assumptions are correct, though, then I agree that Callandor will be physically stronger than it was before it deflected the magic. As far as whether it's One-Power-related abilities would get stronger, though, I'm not sure they'd be changed in the same way that the physical make-up of the sword would be.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-11-13 10:57:22
subject: Teslyn will stand for Egwene
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<p>To start, both Elaida and Egwene have, as stated often before, same problem: they are not legally Amyrlin. Raising an Amyrlin requires a Greater Consensus, which means also at least one Sitter from every Ajah standing for the candidate. Elaida didn't have a Blue Sitter (though she handled the problem by removing the Blue Ajah, more fool her), and Egwene, of course, didn't have any Red Sitter on her side as there were none in Salidar.<br /><br />Teslyn was a Red Sitter before Elaida was raised Amyrlin (as is stated in the FAQ). In Winter's Heart, when Mat promises to free her, she says:<br /><br /><i>&#8220;&#8216;If you do help me escape, I will do anything you ask of me that does not encompass treason to the White&#8212;&#8217; Her teeth snapped shut, and she sat up straight, staring right through him. Abruptly, she nodded to herself. &#8216;Help me escape, and I will do <b>anything</b> you ask of me,&#8217; she said.&#8221; </i>(Winter's Heart; Three women, p. 403 TOR hardback)<br /><br />That was from a woman who has no reason to like Elaida anymore. Also, if she isn't Black Ajah (I don't believe she is, but there is no way to be sure yet) she is bound by the Three Oaths against lying, so she believed what she said.<br /><br />Mat likes Egwene, and she's a woman from back home. He didn't like to see a Two Rivers woman pushed around as a puppet; that was made clear when they were leaving Salidar. When he realizes Egwene won't run away to the Band, he might quite well decide to help her a bit if he can. Now he might just have means for it in Teslyn.<br /><br />What I believe is that when Tower is united in some way or another after the Tar Valon battle, the Halls will have to find a way to decide between two illegal Amyrlins. Fourth Amyrlin (counting Siuan as one) in less than two years would be too much of a blow to the power of the Tower. They will also have to find a way to unite the Tower in truth, not only by force. And here is one way it might happen: when they need to have one, whole Hall, they will first have the Sitters who were in place before Siuan was deposed of. The empty places will be filled by unified Ajahs to avoid Salidar - Tar Valon conflict (unless they are kept unfilled until they have decided on Amyrlin). Maybe they will vote all over again (that's a tough nut for them: Egwene isn't as supple as they thought, and Elaida has bungled heavily) or just ask if any Sitters of the missing Ajah (Blue/Red) will stand for one of them. Either way, <i>if</i> Teslyn gets there in time, she might offer quite a surprise for everybody with her choice... On the other hand, who Blue would ever stand for Elaida?<br /><br />Of course, there is the minor problem of the Black Ajah and their hunters; but however that ends up, Teslyn will change sides... As to how will she have time to get there, well, White Tower isn't exactly quick at handling things. There's too many things to handle and too much arguing on the Amyrlin for the Hall to decide on it in a matter of days; there's be that Black Ajah hunt, the gaping at the One Power show provided by Rand and Nynaeve in Shadar Logoth and guessing what it is, and of course the siege as well.<br /><br />Feel free to rip it to shreds or add some points I have ignored. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Wouldn't accepting a vote from a member of the Red Ajah vindicate its existence?  To me, that suggests  the Red Ajah will not be disbanded when Egwene becomes Amyrlin in truth.  If they aren't disbanded, what will they do?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-11-16 14:34:52
subject: Aviendha's Time-Portal Gateway
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<p>The Theory: Aviendha's gateway for Traveling is a time portal.<br /><br />The Proof: In the PoD, Elayne, Nynaeve, Aviendha, the Kin and the Windfinders are preparing to leave the Tarasin Palace stableyard to go to the Kin's farm, to use the Bowl of the Winds. We learn where it is, from Reanne in ACoS: &quot;The Kin maintain a farm on the other side of the river, a few miles north.&quot; (ACoS, &#8220;Promises To Keep,&#8221; HB, p.611.)<br /><br />We go to Aviendha, who is making the gateway: &quot;Aviendha focused, and the flows wove together, creating identity between this place and the place she and Elayne and Nynaeve had chosen on a map. She gestured as though opening tentflaps. That was no part of the weave that Elayne had taught her, but it was almost all she could recall of what she herself had done, long before Egwene made her first gateway. The flows coalesced into a silvery, vertical slash that rotated and became an opening in the air, taller than a man and just as wide. Beyond lay a large clearing surrounded by trees twenty or thirty feet high, miles north of the city, on the far side of the river.&quot; (TPoD, &#8220;To Keep the Bargain,&#8221; HB, p.63.)<br /><br />The next page follows: &quot;The gateway filled her with dissatisfaction. Elayne could make this weave with only a part of her strength, yet for some reason it required all but a fraction of Aviendha's. She was sure she could have woven a larger, as large as Elayne could, using the weaves she had made without thought while trying to escape Rand al'Thor what seemed a very long time ago, but no matter how often she tried, only scraps came back to her.&quot;<br /><br />Further down the same page, her thoughts continue: &#8220;Unlike Elayne, she could not move more than five or six steps without this weave beginning to weaken, and the same if she tried to tie it off. It was very frustrating.&quot;<br /><br /> Once she has opened the gateway, everyone steps through into the clearing and Aviendha unweaves it. Elayne is talking to her right after: &#8216;We're safe, and in a few more hours, we will reach the Kin's farm, we'll use the Bowl, and the world will be right again.&#8217; Well somewhat. The sun seemed lower than it had in the stableyard, but she knew that was only imagination. For once, they had gained a clear jump on the Shadow.&#8221; (TPoD, &#8220;Unweaving,&#8221; HB p.81.)<br /><br /> A little more information: &quot;Farms and pastures and olive groves covered most of the land around Ebou Dar, but many small forests stretched a few miles across as well, and while the ground was much flatter than the Rhannon Hills to the south, it rolled and sometimes rose in a prominence of a hundred feet or higher, sufficient to cast deep shadows in the afternoon sun.&quot; tPoD, A Pleasant Ride, HB p.86.<br /><br /> Here are my conclusions. Twice we are told that the farm is north of the city, on the other side of the river.  They step through the gateway into a clearing that is described as being on relatively flat ground. In other words, they are not significantly higher or lower than where they left in the south. Practically no time has elapsed, yet Elayne thinks to herself that the sun is lower in the sky, and then dismisses it. There is no reason the sun should appear lower. The only way this could be possible is if her gateway was a time portal. <br /><br /> We also know this from Cadsuane: &quot;The first way you learned the weave for a particular thing imprinted itself on you; learning a second was all but impossible, and even when you could learn, the second-learned weave almost never worked nearly as well.&quot; (WH, &#8220;New Alliances,&#8221; HB p.277.)  This says to me that a second-learned weave will give you different results than what you would expect normally.<br /><br />This would explain why Aviendha is having such a hard time with this weave. Part of what she did before is imprinted on her and now she is somehow using that and what Elayne taught her and coming up with this unique gateway. It would also explain why it takes almost all of her strength and why she can't step away from it or tie it off. Also note that RJ went into a lot of detail telling us about this particular gateway, and her problems with it. By this point of the series, we are used to seeing them made with little comment other than the slash of light and rotating description. Then, 18 pages later, he drops in the blurb about the sun appearing lower, in the middle of a sentence of someone elses PoV.<br /><br />We have also seen Rand use gateways to enter Tel'aran'rhiod. So we know that they can be used to reach other dimensions. And what is time, except another dimension? We have also seen time manipulated by other means throughout the series: The Ways, Portal Stones, and Tel'aran'rhiod. So it is not unbelievable that RJ would throw another means of doing this at us. <br /><br />Plus, take into account that this would give Aviendha a special Talent. This would put her on a par with our other female hero characters: Egwene the Dreamer, Nynaeve the Healer, Min the Seer, and Elayne the Ter'angreal Maker.<br /><br />We only have the one mention by Elayne about the sun, but I also noticed a similarity with what she said about gaining a clear jump on the Shadow, and with what Rand said when he used the Portal Stones to go from Tear to the Waste: &quot;It worked Moiraine. That is what's important. I've outrun them all. It worked.&quot; (TSR, &#8220;Beyond the Stone,&#8221; HB p.258.)  In both cases, our heroes are in need of out-distancing enemies that are pursuing them; Jordan uses these allusions to suggest they have used special ways to circumvent time, and gain an advantage.<br /><br />One more item I found of interest that possibly pertains to this theory. It is from Rand's PoV, when he is making his gateway to skim to Caemlyn to kill Rahvin: &quot;The One Power had little to do with gateways, really; only the making. Beyond was something else. A dream of a dream, Asmodean called it.&quot; (TFoH, &#8220;To Caemlyn,&#8221; HB, p.645.)<br /><br />This seems to infer there are more possibilities than we know with gateways. It looks like the Forsaken probably know more than we have been shown.<br /><br />Where do I think this is leading? If the &quot;Twice Dawns the Day&quot; line from the prophecy is more than just a metaphor, I think it is a very real probability that Aviendha's gateway will be used to this end.<br /><br /> A little more Light in the Night!</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> It could be.  But Aviendha didn't seem to have any trouble at all weaving or running away from her first Gateway.  This suggests to me that her gateway in Ebou Dhar took her strength not because it was itself something special, but rather she wasn't competent at forming that particular weave.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-11-25 13:51:58
subject: The Green Man's Place
body:
<p>I've been thinking that maybe the Green Man's place where the Eye of the World was found was somehow an intersection of the real world and TAR. <br /><br />The quotes:<br /><br />&#8220;Are you going to leave Egwene to face it alone?...Light help me!&#8221; (EOTW, ch. 49, p. 739, paperback).<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;When this place was made, it was made so that none could find it twice. How have you come here?&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;Need,&#8217; Moiraine replied. &#8216;My need, the world's need.&#8217;&#8221; (EOTW, ch. 49, p. 741, paperback).<br /><br />In the first quote, Rand, while running from the Worms, becomes concerned for Egwene. Since we know he channeled in order to save Egwene (with Bela), then likely his concern for her in this situation became one of need.<br /><br />The second quote tells us that need is the requirement for finding the Green Man's place, or having it find you.  Moiraine says it is her need, but with the first quote I believe it is actually Rand's need that brings them there.<br /><br />Nynaeve learned from the Wise Ones that focusing on need in TAR will take you to whatever it is you need: &#8220;According to you, the Wise Ones said the stronger the need the better...&#8221; (LOC, ch. 13, p. 331, paperback).<br /><br />I believe that the Aes Sedai who made the Green Man's place knew that people traveling in the Blight are bound to have great need at some point or another.  So they put it there, using the Power to form an intersection between the real world and TAR.  This would allow them to place real items there, as well as the Eye, but protect it from being found by the wrong people.  Certainly no one following the shadow would see it as NEED.  (Unfortunately, Mat and the dagger led two Forsaken there).<br /><br />As to the reason why it could only be found once by a person, look back to Elayne and Nynaeve's search for the Bowl of Winds.  While in Ebou Dar, they disagree as to how many floors the building which holds the Bowl has, which is resolved in COS, ch. 38, &quot;Six Stories.&quot;  If they disagreed, why not simply go back to TAR and search again?  I doubt RJ made them that woolheaded, so I believe that for them as well they cannot find the same thing twice using need in TAR.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> This could possibly also explain the instant traveling that Rand does to reach Ishy.  He wouldn't need to weave a Gateway to travel quickly if he is in T'A'R.  However, I wonder if it would be because there's something special about Someshta's garden, or if it would have more to do with getting deeper into the Blight and closer to the Bore.  The Aes Sedai who created the Eye of the World may have hitched a ride on pre-existing dimensional funkiness.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-12-04 18:07:26
subject: Mesaana = Silviana
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<p>RJ has told us that we have all the clues we need to figure out the remaining Forsaken, so we should be able to do better than just guessing, based on whether someone acts suspicious. We should have conclusive evidence by some action that some particular person is Mesaana. <br /><br />This evidence can be found in Path of Daggers, Chapter 25. Alviarin sends Silviana to Elaida for a &quot;private penance,&quot; and Silviana is clearly perturbed at having to perform this service. Elaida thinks this is due to the fact that &quot;Silviana saw anything that took time away from her novices and Accepted as needless interruption.&quot; This is interesting for two reasons: first, Mesaana would definitely be perturbed at being interrupted from work with novices and Accepted--as the corrupter of an entire generation of schoolchildren (acc. to the World of the WoT), she would view Mistress of Novices as the supreme position of power within the White Tower. (She likes &quot;real power, not just the appearance of it,&quot; remember?) Second, it's interesting because the next section, Mesaana's confrontation with Alviarin, displays Mesaana's clear disgruntlement at Alviarin's having Elaida beaten.<br /><br />Wait a minute--that's the REALLY interesting part. Mesaana tells Alviarin to find out why the Ajah heads are meeting--so she doesn't know herself. As Alviarin thinks, Mesaana doesn't know everything that happens in the tower. But she does know about the beating, and very soon after it, too. In fact, Alviarin thinks to herself as she grovels before Mesaana, that Elaida may be &quot;raising howls&quot; right then, indicating that she just sent for Silviana a very short time previously. However, we know from Elaida's POV that Silviana was &quot;only&quot; with her for half an hour, so Alviarin could very well think the punishment was still happening. Now, who do we KNOW knows about this beating? Alviarin, Elaida and . . . Silviana. Elaida is off blubbering on her bed directly after the beating, so she hasn't told anyone. That means, either Alviarin or Silviana has told Mesaana pretty much directly (there hasn't been time for the news to travel), or Silviana IS Mesaana.<br /><br />Add that to the fact that we have very little information about this Silviana character: this is the only chapter where she really does anything at all. Why, then, is she given the rather large role of Mistress of Novices in the Tower? We sure hear plenty about Sheriam as Mistress of Novices, and about Keepers, Sitters, Ajah heads galore. Why don't we know who the head of the Red Ajah is, and why do we know hardly anything about the new Mistress of Novices? It just doesn't make sense.<br /><br />Another point, Silviana is a Red; and the Red Ajah is the only one of which Alviarin doesn't know the head. Galina had been the head, and now there's a new one, but Alviarin doesn't know who it is. The head of the Red Ajah is the only one not privy to the secret &quot;Ajah head meetings&quot; in the tower. And if Mesaana's Silviana, and hence Red Ajah (possibly even the Ajah head), that would be all the more reason why she's peeved off about not being invited to the Ajah head tea parties.<br /><br />Anyway, all the rest of this theory is just icing on the cake. The real proof lies in the scene where Mesaana tells off Alviarian for Elaida's beating--there's really no way she could know about it so soon after the fact, unless she did the beating herself.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> I've heard this theory before, though not often.  The main problem I've always had with it is precisely that we know very little about Silviana, whereas we have comparatively a lot of evidence suggesting that Danelle is Mesaana.  In the real world I might have considered Silviana a prime suspect; but if the plot reveals Silviana as Mesaana, I'm going to be rather angry at Robert Jordan not putting more about her in the story so far.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-12-11 13:51:27
subject: Finn ter'angreal
body:
<p>In the Q &amp; A section of the <i>Glimmers</i> prologue, Jordan explains that the memories in Mat&#8217;s head are not memories from his past lives at all. RJ goes on to say that those memories are from <b>other</b> men who have passed through a ter&#8217;angreal to come to the world of the Aelfinn. He goes on to say, &#8220;And since not everyone passing by has the nerve to journey through a ter&#8217;angreal to some other world, the memories he received were those of adventurers and soldiers and men of daring.&#8221; <br /><br />So, what does this have to do with finding another way to the land of the Aelfinn besides the Tower of Ghenjei? Let&#8217;s break it down.<br /><br /><i>1.	From Jordan&#8217;s statements, and Mat&#8217;s memories (many of which are from Manetheren, as we're told in <u>Fires of Heaven</u>) we can infer that men who live west of the Dragonwall have been to the land of the Aelfinn in the third age.<br /><br />2.	From Jordan&#8217;s statement we can also infer that they got there by means of a ter&#8217;angreal.<br /><br />3.	The only ter&#8217;angreal we know of that transports a person to the Aelfinn had been, until recently, in Rhuidean since soon after the Breaking.<br /><br />4.	No wetlander had ever been allowed to see Rhuidean, much less enter it, before Mat.</i><br /><br />Conclusion: There must exist (or at least <b>have existed</b>) other ter&#8217;angreal that would transport one to the Aelfinn world. Since men from &#8220;many cultures&#8221; have visited the Aelfinn, it stands to reason that there were other ter&#8217;angreal west of the Dragonwall that these men went through. <br /><br />This opens up another way for Thom (and whoever else is going to rescue Moiraine) to travel to the land of the Aelfinn without having to find a way into the Tower of Ghenjei.<br /><br />Of course, this whole loophole may have been inadvertently created by Jordan while trying to close another.</p><p><b>Lauriana Sedai says:</b> I like it! Not something that I'd ever considered, although I must admit that I've almost gotten to the point where I have quit speculating about Moiraine's rescue. RJ is a wiley character <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />, and he has already surprised me more than once. My motto has, alas, become RAFO.<br /><br />At the same time, I can't find any real flaws in your reasoning. I still suspect that our heroes/heroines will wind up using the Tower of Ghenji to get to Moiraine, but that's just because I'm not as imaginative as the rest of you guys. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> This is totally possible, IMO. Good job! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-12-11 14:40:11
subject: Mil Tesen was Demandred
body:
<p>It has always bothered me since I read the prologue in tLoC about the peddler that meets Gawyn on the way to Cairhien. He talks to him while the White Tower embassy Aes Sedai meet with the Shaido wise ones. To refresh your memory, here is the encounter:<br /><br /><br />&#8220;By the time he came back to Jisao's group, someone else was in sight coming from the west, a peddler in a floppy hat, leading a slab-sided mule. Straight toward the hill; he had seen them.<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;The Light shine on you, my Lords. You're well set up for traveling in these parlous times, as any man can see, but if there's anything you need, like as not old Mil Tesen's got it in his packs. Ain't no better prices in ten miles, my Lords.&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;Gawyn doubted there was as much as a farm within ten miles. &#8216;Parlous times indeed, Master Tesen. Aren't you afraid of Aiel?&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;Aiel, my Lord? They's all down to Cairhien. Old Mil can smell Aiel, he can. Truth, he wishes there was some here. Fine trading with Aiel. They got lots of gold. From Cairhien. And they don't bother peddlers. Everybody knows that.&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;Gawyn forebore asking why, if the Aiel in Cairhien made for such good trading, the man was not heading south. &#8216;What news of the world, Master Tesen? We're from the north, and you may know what hasn't caught up to us yet from the south.&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;Oh, big doings southward, my Lord. You'll have heard of Cairhien? Him that calls himself Dragon and all?&#8217; Gawyn nodded, and he went on. &#8216;Well, now he's taken Andor. Most of it, anyway. Their queen's dead. Some say he'll take the whole world before&#8212;&#8217; The man cut off with a strangled yelp before Gawyn realized he had seized the fellow's lapels.<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;Queen Morgase is dead? Speak, man! Quickly!&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;Tesen rolled his eyes looking for help, but he spoke, and quickly. &#8216;That's what they say, my Lord. Old Mil don't know, but he thinks it so. Everybody says it, my Lord. Everybody says this Dragon did it. My Lord? Old Mil's neck, my Lord! My Lord!&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;Gawyn jerked his hands away as though burned. He felt on fire inside. It had been another neck he wanted in his hands. &#8216;The Daughter-Heir.&#8217; His voice sounded far off. &#8216;Is there any word of the Daughter-Heir, Elayne?&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;Tesen backed away a long pace as soon as he was free. &#8216;Not as old Mil knows, my Lord. Some says she's dead, too. Some says he killed her, but old Mil don't know for sure.&#8217;&#8221; (LoC, &#8220;The First Message,&#8221; HB, p. 43).<br /><br /> It is not unusual for peddlers to carry news, but, what I question is this particular bit of news about Morgase's death, and Rand holding Caemlyn, and how he knows. It is a matter of timing. So, I am going to establish a timeline of events. For my timeline, I referred to Tellings of the Wheel: A Chronology of the WoT.<br /><br /> We need to go back to the battle with the Shaido at Cairhien first. This took place on day 536 of the story. The next day, Rand enters and takes command of Cairhien. This is conjecture on my part, but I will assume that messages were sent by pigeon to Tar Valon on this day, 537, about Rand now controlling the city. This was certainly a big event, and the fact that Rand receives the letters from Elaida and Alviarin on day 546, revealing they know he has taken Cairhien, shows the speed with which they got the news.<br /> <br /> We have this, from Rand, talking to Moiraine about the letters:<br /><br />&#8220;&#8216;I see White Tower spies,&#8217; he told her drily. &#8216;They know I hold the city.&#8217;<br /><br />&#8220;For at least two or three days after the battle, the Shaido would have stopped anything but a pigeon going north. Even a rider who knew where to change horses, no sure thing between Cairhien and Tar Valon, could not have reached the Tower in time for these letters to come back today.&#8221; (day 546) (TFoH, &#8220;News Comes to Cairhien,&#8221; HB, p. 609).<br /><br />So, according to Rand, no-one would have been going north of Cairhien for at least two or three days. This would have meant going in a roundabout way to go that direction, or leaving later.<br /> <br /> There is no definite date for when the White Tower embassy left Tar Valon, but, since we know that Elaida was rather anxious to get ahold of him, I will put forth that they left very soon after his location was known, say day 539-540. I think it is interesting to note that this embassy did not arrive in Cairhien until day 600, about 60 days of travel. <br /><br /> They later kidnap Rand, on day 632, and leave Cairhien on day 635, heading slowly up the road to Tar Valon. Perrin follows on day 639, and the battle of Dumai Wells occurs on day 649. Covarla Baldene, one of the WT embassy Aes Sedai, arrives in Tar Valon on day 656 after fleeing the battle. Note here that she made the trip in only 21 days. Of course she was moving a lot faster after the battle, than the caravan was earlier. Elaida even comments on it: <br /><br /> &quot;So soon? I did not expect them for another week at least.&quot; (ACoS, &#8220;Sealed to the Flame,&#8221; HB, p .504).<br /><br />So it sounds like she expected the trip to take at least 31-40 days. (Note: she didn't say two weeks, so I added 9 days here for the range).<br /><br />  The reason I am pointing these times out are obvious. It took them about 60 days to get there, but only would have taken around 31-40 days to get back. Why such a big difference? We know the embassy met with the Shaido on the first trip, but, it seems that 20-30 days is too much of a time difference, especially for a meeting that didn't even last an entire day. And the Shaido were already heading in that direction.<br /><br />What I propose is this: the embassy didn't come down the road to Cairhien; they went cross-country. I think the time variation supports this. Why would they do this? Simple. The embassy consisted of six Aes Sedai, their warders and Gawyn's Younglings. But, as we learn from a conversation with Galina and Katerine, there are more AS following them. Katerine's PoV:<br /><br /> &quot;There might be Black sisters among those following a day behind, but she had no way of knowing.&quot; (LoC, &#8220;The First Message,&#8221; HB, p. 43).<br /><br /> From Elaida, we find out how many: &quot;Elaida did not hear. Twelve returned. Had any more escaped, they would have sped back to Tar Valon, would have been here as soon as Covarla, surely. Even if one or two had been injured, traveling slowly.... Twelve out of thirty-nine.&quot; (ACoS, &#8220;Sealed to the Flame,&#8221; HB, p. 506).<br /><br /> That means thirty-three Aes Sedai and their warders were behind them. I think this is the reason they went cross-country. That kind of contingent would surely stand out and draw notice if they came down a major road. Exactly what they wouldn't want, since they were being kept secret from Rand. Plus the fact that they meet with the Shaido, something else they probably wouldn't want known.<br /><br /> I believe that Gawyn's comment about there not being a farm around for ten miles, may further support this. <br /><br /> This meeting with the peddler took place on day 559 of the series. From here, it takes the embassy and Gawyn 41 days to reach Cairhien on day 600. This would mean they were roughly one-third of the way into their trip. <br /><br /> Here is the crux of the problem: Mat brought news of Morgase's death on day 546, the same day the letters to Rand arrive. This is the first anyone in Cairhien has heard of her death, otherwise, I'm sure someone in the city would have been talking about it already, and it wouldn't have been such a surprise to Rand, Moiraine and company. <br /> <br /> On top of that, Rand didn't kill Rahvin until the next day (day 547). This would mean that it should have taken even more time for the news that Rand had taken Andor, to get back to Cairhien. <br /> <br /> So Mil Tesen had news that was only twelve days old when he met Gawyn. Remember too, that he is walking, leading a mule. So he isn't moving very fast. Even if he was going as fast as the caravan did, up the road, he should have only been about one-third of the way from Cairhien to Tar Valon. This is assuming that is where he came from. He does, after all, mention Cairhien three times and knows about the Aiel there. And it is the most logical place for him to have heard it.<br /><br />There are other suspicious things about the peddler as well.<br /><br />For one, even Gawyn wonders why he is not heading toward the good trading with the Aiel that he mentions. Not very business-like for a peddler to pass up on making a profit. <br /><br />For another, he is coming from the west. From Cairhien, you have to travel northwest to get to Tar Valon; the direction that Gawyn is coming from. So the peddler should have been coming from the southeast. It looks like the peddler was wandering around in the woods, miles from anywhere that he could sell anything. <br /><br />To me, the most interesting fact is that this takes place after Demandred went to SG, on day 548 and before he meets with the other Forsaken again seventeen days later. It gives him ample opportunity to pull this off, fresh with his instructions to; &quot;Let the Lord of Chaos Rule.&quot; As well as giving him a tie-in with what happens later at Dumai Wells.<br /><br />  I propose the whole meeting was staged by Demandred to sow more chaos. We see that Gawyn is now dead-set against Rand as a result. Setting up a future confrontation most likely, and at the least, making Gawyn refuse to help Rand when he could have. I see no plausible explanation for this peddler to have this kind of information, this far away from Cairhien, or Andor, at the time he had it. <br /><br /> P.S. For those who think I used faulty reasoning about them not coming down the road, remember this. If they did use the road, it should have taken them less time to get there. It took them 41 days after they met the peddler and the Shaido to arrive in Cairhien. Certainly they would have no further reason to delay their travel after that. And that 41 days represents the whole trip by road according to Elaida's estimate.<br /><br /> And we know from when Perrin chased after the Aes Sedai later, that he doesn't mention any towns along the road, where someone could have gave the peddler this information. Either way, by road or cross-country, I don't think it's likely.<br /><br /> A little more Light in the Night!<br /><br />OMG! Another Demandred theory!</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Sounds good to me.  The peddler sure was talkative considering he seemed otherwise to be a throwaway character.  I don't suppose there's an offhand mention of a missing mule anywhere, is there?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-12-25 10:53:25
subject: Why Moridin Channels the True Power
body:
<p>With this theory I am going to try to prove that Moridin started channeling the True Power constantly becasue he did not have his black cords reattached. However, there are two major things I have to remind you before the theory itself.<br /><br />   From what we have seen until now there are two kinds of resurrection - normal one, which is done by by the Wheel, and a force one, by the Dark One.<br /><br />   These two resurrections differ by one very important fact. The force resurrection keeps the memories, experience, and conscience of the people, plus their strenght in the One Power, like we have seen in the Forsaken. The normal resurrection however is a totally new reincarnation of the soul like the one of Lews Therin to Rand 'al Thor. Absolutely nothing was transffered from Lews to Rand. After saying this I think it is possible to say that other than experience,memories, conscience and strenght in the One Power, the previous number of saa in ones eyes will also be transferred i.e. the amount of True Power a certain person has chanelled will be transferred into his new reincarnation. <br /><br />   So in CoS Moghedien sees a saa passing from one of the eyes of Moridin to the other one. I think here we can safely assume that only one saa passed becuase if they were more, Moghedien would have mentined it for sure.<br /><br />&quot;But a tiny black fleck, just large enough to see, floated straight across one of those blue eyes and then across the other in the same line.&quot;<br />               (<i>A Crown of Swords</i>, &quot;Mindtrap&quot; )<br /> <br />   However, in WH Demamndred sees an unstoppable stream of saa passing through Moridin's eyes.<br /><br />&quot;A black speck floated across Moridin's blue eyes, then another, in a steady stream.&quot; <br />                                          (<i>Winter&#8217;s Heart</i>, &quot;Wonderful News&quot; )<br /> <br />   So for two books timeline the number of saa in Moridin's eyes has increased immensly. So I think that this proves to us that Ishamael did not channel the True Power a lot because if he did, than the first time Moggy saw Moridin he would have gotten more saa than just one single spot. He most probably channled the True Power while he was still Ishamael, but he mainly used saidin and the True Power was for special occasions only, like the healing of Lews Therin. Ishanael most probably used the True Power only in extreme situations like Demandred, and thus had no saa in his eyes until he became Moridin. <br />   &quot; He[Demandred] himself had never touched the True Power except at need.&quot;<br />                            (<i>Winter&#8217;s Heart</i>, &quot;Wonderful News&quot; )<br /><br />  The second thing I want to remind you about are the  two occasions in which we have seen black wires which connect the forsaken to the DO. <br /><br />&#8220;Its light roiled the darkness, severed the steel-black lines around Ba&#8217;alzamon, and Ba&#8217;alzamon convulsed.&#8221;  <br />                                                    - What Is Written in Prophecy, The Dragon Reborn<br /><br />&#8220;He had not seen those strange things like black steel wires around Asmodean since leaving the dark place&#8230;<br />Asmodean&#8217;s eyes went wide, and he screamed, a howl from the depths of horror&#8230;&#8221;<br />                         - The Traps of Rhuidean, The Shadow Rising<br /><br />     The best explanation, that I have seen around,  for their use is that they prevent the taint from reaching the Forsaken.<br /><br />   Now here comes the theory.<br /><br />   From what we know, one can safely assume that these lines are made of the True Power. This is mostly because Rand had to imagine the lines that connected Asmodean. If these lines were made of saidin he would have seen/sensed them without any problem. <br /> <br />	It is possible that the lines were made of saidar, but then our female channellers would have sensed them. One example is while all the Wise Ones, Moiraine, and Egwene travelled with Asmodean and Lanfear.<br /><br />	So now that we are sure that the lines were made of the True Power, one can conclude that the power had to be channelled somehow into the body. This special way of weaving makes it possible to prevent the taint from reaching the target male channeller.  Thus we can safely conclude that it had to be a person that had access to the True Power. <br /><br />   The best explanation here for the creation of this protection is the DO. When Mierin drilled into the Bore, she somehow, just a bit, set free the DO. When Lews Therin sealed him back the backlash was the taint of Saidin. However, I think that the DO managed to put these black wires among the male Forsaken channelers so that they can be protected from the taint.<br /> <br />	Now the DO is sealed in the Bore and he cannot touch the world so freely. So I think that he is not able to restore these black wires to the two Forsaken that were cut from them. We know that Asmodean is most probably not coming back, so we do not need to worry about him. What about Ishamael? The DO still wants to use him, but there is no way for him to restore the black wires, as he is sealed. So to prevent the madness from reaching Moridin, he allowed him to channel the True Power freely, so that he is still useful, but without the chance of him getting even more insane. The Dark One thinks that the price Moridin eventually would have to pay for channeling the True Power so often is a better deal when compared to the possibility of Ishamael going even more insane because of the taint.<br /> <br />* One could ask why did not Cyndane or Moggy reattach the black cords to Moridin. Well, I think that it was the Dark One's choice. It was him who made Moridin Nae'blis and it was him who forbode access to the True Power to everyone but Moridin.<br /><br />&quot;Of course, only Moridin had that privilege now, since his ... anointing. &quot;<br />      (<i>Winter&#8217;s Heart</i>, &quot;Wonderful News&quot; )<br /><br />I think that this proves that it was the Dark One who chose Moridin to channel the True Power instead of saidin.*<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2002-12-25 11:51:34
subject: Graendal has been spying on Mat Cauthon
body:
<p>In all likelihood, Graendal has been spying on Mat.  There is ample evidence to support this.  This theory combines evidence from many other previously posted blackboard posts, message board discussions, and published theories.  It is the most detailed account on this subject that you will find on the internet.<br /><br /><b> Graendal was watching Rand's army-- and Mat </b><br /> <br />First of all, let's look at the most obvious instance of Graendal spying on Mat:<br /><br /><i> His army is still gathering in Tear. I have seen it. </i> -Graendal to Sammael (LoC, &#8216;To Understand a Message') <br /> <br />Much of Rand's attack was based on deception, and on using Mat and his band of the Red Hand to add weight to the deception.  Everyone knew that Mat was involved, and Rand wanted it that way.  Therefore, if Graendal personally saw the Dragon's army, then she almost certainly had to be spying on Mat.  Mat, after all, was an integral part that army and attack.<br /><br /><b> The traitor-- Graendal </b><br /><br />Let's introduce some more evidence to prove that Graendal was watching Mat.<br /><br />In ACoS, &#8216;Insects&#8217;, Carridin randomly sees Mat.  He tells Sammael,<br /><br /><i> Great Master, I saw Mat Cauthon. </i><br /><br />Sammael replies, <i> Here? </i> And from Carridin's PoV we see, <i> Oddly, for a moment, Sammael seemed taken aback. He murmured something under his breath, and the blood drained from Carridin's face at one caught word.</i><br /><br /><i> Great Lord, you know I would never betray-</i><br /><br />And Sammael replies back, <i> You? Fool! You haven't the stomach. Are you certain it was Cauthon you saw?</i><br /><br />Clearly, it appears that the muttered word that Carridin heard Sammael mutter was <i> traitor. </i>  And if Sammael doesn't think Carridin has the stomach to try to betray him, who is he thinking about?<br /><br />My guess would be another Forsaken, namely Graendal.<br /><br />Sammael and Graendal obviously had a working relationship with each other.  For example, they were originally plotting, along with Rahvin and Lanfear, to lure Rand to attack Sammael.  <br /><br />From what we saw Graendal say to Sammael, in LoC, that she had seen Rand's army, it appears that it was part of Graendal's job to watch Mat.  She was supposed to report movements of Rand's troops, and of Mat, to Sammael.<br /><br />Sammael feels betrayed, because Graendal did not report to him that Mat is now in Ebou Dar.<br /><br /><b> The Mask of Mirrors </b><br /><br /><br />We are still addressing this question while assuming that Graendal was spying on Mat from an oblique angle.  Let's answer the question more directly.  Have we ever witnessed Graendal spying on Mat?<br /><br />The answer is yes, and we owe this observation to one of our very own WoT-maniacs, Light in the Night.<br /><br />In LoC, we see Mat enter a tavern.  He sees a <i> copper-skinned Domani woman, &#8230; wearing a modest blue dress, with quick eyes and gemmed rings on all her fingers.  </i> (LoC, 'A Different Dance')<br /><br />Ok, so this doesn't mean much does it?  Mat just saw a regular Domani gal.  Big deal, right?<br /><br />Indeed it is a big deal. <br /><br />In the next chapter, &#8216;Threads Woven in Shadow,&#8217; we see something very interesting.  <br /><br />Sammael meets Graendal once again.  She is described in this way, <i> her thin blue Domani gown clung and more than hinted.  As usual she had a ring with different stones on every finger. </i><br /><br />Shortly after this, Graendal weaves the Mask of Mirrors to flaunt one of her best disguises to Sammael:  <br /><br /><i>  Her skin became coppery but dull, her hair and eyes dark but flat. </i><br /><br />Basically, we see a startling resemblance between Graendal's mask of mirrors persona, and the woman that Mat Cauthon saw at the inn.  The resemblances include the coppery skin, the rings on all the fingers, and the blue dress.  Very few women probably wear five rings on each hand, besides Graendal and Sevanna.<br /><br />If we put together all the quotes, a pattern emerges.  We see very convincing evidence that Graendal has been spying on Mat.<br /><br />But if this is not enough evidence for you, let's add one more piece to the puzzle.<br /><br /><b> Noal Charin--- and Graendal </b><br /><br />The last piece I want to add to this theory is about Noal Charin, a.k.a. Jain Farstrider.  Noal is important because of his current proximity to Mat Cauthon, and it is believed by many that Noal is actually one of Graendal's spies.<br /><br />In this section, I draw almost exclusively on two theories about the connection between Graendal and Jain Farstrider.  These theories were published by the WoT-maniac known as Matrimony Cauthon.<br /><br />You can all refer back to those two theories.  I do not want to say more than I have to in this theory.  <br /><br />Basically, the author points out that Noal Charin appears to be under some type of compulsion, based on similarities between Noal&#8217;s behavior and Morgase&#8217;s during her time as Rahvin&#8217;s pet.  Also,  Noal and Graendal both have a Sharan connection, and finally,  there is the &#8216;unknown wrinkled old man&#8217; who was once seen in Graendal's palace.<br /><br />None of these points are really conclusive.  However, the author does include one very strong point, strongly implicating that Noal is under the control of Graendal. <br /><br />I am going to briefly summarize the point that highly implicates the connection between Noal and Graendal.<br /><br />The only Forsaken who knew about the Ebou Dar ter'angreal stash were Sammael, Moghedien, and Moridin.  Carridin was helping Sammael locate the stash.  Moghedien was using Ispan and Falion, and Moridin basically said that he wasn't interested in the cache, and the Sammael was taking a great risk. <br /><br />Graendal also knew about the cache. In the chapter &#8216;To Understand a Message&#8217; (LoC), Sammael told Graendal, <br /><br /><i> I all but have my hands on a cache of angreal and who can say what else.</i> <br /><br />Graendal knew of this cache because of Sammael.  She was also interested in finding it, but from her PoV she didn't think she would get her hands on any of the ter'angreal unless Sammael shared them with her.  However, this likely did not stop Graendal from sending out spies to locate this cache.  Graendal most likely sent spies to watch Sammael's agents in the cities that seemed most probably to find the cache.<br /><br />If Graendal had any knowledge of the Kin, then Ebou Dar would have been an extremely likely place for her to send one of her agents.<br /><br />Ishmael, Moghedien, Sammael, and Graendal were the only Forsaken who knew about the cache. Moghedien sent Ispan and Falion to find it. In essence, these agents were also Moridin's, because Moghedien was mind-trapped by Moridin at this point. <br /><br />Sammael was using Carridin as his agent to find the cache.<br /><br />Here is the how we can implicate Noal Charin to Graendal.  In Noal's PoV, he was seen spying on both Carridin, and on the house of Ispan and Falion.  This automatically means that Noal was not an agent of Sammael, Moghedien, or Moridin.  <br /><br />Only one other Forsaken knew of that cache, and this was Graendal.  Therefore, unless you believe in Lightfriends, it seems highly likely (especially given all the other peculiarities of Noal Charin) that Noal Charin is Graendal's agent.  <br /><br />Since Noal is now with Mat, and he is very closely shadowing Mat (as we saw in WH and in Time be Gone), it appears that Noal is another way for Graendal to keep very close tabs on Mat.  <br /><br /><b>  Conclusion </b><br /><br />I have combined several arguments, to give you the best account that you can find on the internet.  From various quotes by Sammael and Graendal, to Graendal's mask of mirrors disguise, to Noal Charin, it appears highly realistic that Graendal is spying on Mat.  A deeper thought is that Graendal was assigned to watch Mat.<br /><br />Before we part, I would like to add one concluding thought.  Many Forsaken have closely watched Rand (for example, Dashiva and Demandred).  It now appears that Graendal was watching Mat.  But who is watching Perrin?  <br /><br />This is an excellent research question for the future.<br /></p><p><b>Lauriana Sedai says:</b> OK, first off, &quot;the views expressed in theories do not necessarily reflect the opinions of WoTmania, its staff, or advertisers.&quot; That being said, I'm not certain that this theory is the &quot;most detailed account of the subject&quot; as the author claims, but it's certainly the most detailed account I've ever seen on the TP. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> Wow. While I'm at it, let me add that it's nice to encounter a theory so fully equipped with bold-face and italics. It makes editing soooo much simpler. Breath is a good theory-poster *pats on head.* <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Now on to the theory itself. I think it's only logical that there would be Forsaken watching Mat and Perrin more closely than Rand. I mean, it would be a waste of time and energy to have them all occupied with only one of the three Ta'veren. And the evidence regarding Graendal's use of the Mask of Mirrors is rather compelling. WoT has certainly made me pay more attention to clothing than I ever would in Real Life. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />  I'm always on the look-out for those bloody bronze skirts, but I'd missed the 'blue dress connection' entirely. So congrats to Light in the Night, or Breath, or whoever else caught this one - I missed it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />When it comes to the Noal/Graendal question, the jury's still out, as far as I'm concerned. The evidence provided so far is good, but it could still be coincidence. I'm too undecided to vote either way at this point. I _like_ Noal - I don't want him to be a spy, but it IS possible. I still haven't been swayed by either side of the argument yet, though. One point I have to take issue with (yes, it's picky - but that's what admins are for!) is Breath's statement that Ispan and Falion were technically Moridin's agents. As far as I know, Moggy is still acting of her own free-Forsaken-will when she leaves the Black Sisters with their orders and then heads out to get captured by Nynaeve. Not an enormous deal, but I have to point it out before some diligent black-boarder calls me on it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br />Over all, though, very nice. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Very long, but very nice. <br /><br />Happy holidays everyone! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/elayne.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-05 02:15:05
subject: An Alternative to Deism
body:
<p>There are a number of theories in the Theory Post that mention that the world of the Wheel of Time series operates under a deist philosophy.  For those of you not familiar, deism is also known as the &quot;Old Clockmaker&quot; theory... which basically states that there is a God, a Creator, who basically made the world, just as a clockmaker would make a clock.  He then wound up the world (wound up the clock) and is watching it go without interfering at all.<br /><br />And there are a number of things which support this theory for the world of the Wheel of Time, including the voice at the end of <i>The Eye of the World</i> who speaks in all capitals, just like the Dark One, who says &quot;I WILL TAKE NO PART&quot; or something to that effect.<br /><br />I propose an alternative, which <i>might</i> be disproved when the last book rolls around, but until then, is just as valid as the deism theory, but perhaps a bit more interesting.<br /><br />In the Holy Bible, the Book of Revelations, Chapter 20, verses 2 and 3, it says:<br /><blockquote>&quot;And he laid hold on... that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.&quot;</blockquote><br /><br />When Rand was in Rhuidean, in one of the visions he saw there, a fellow from the Age of Legends said that he had heard his grandfather talk about a time when there was peace, and no one knew what war was.<br /><br />And then there are the Chora trees.  It's been noted the peaceful feeling one gets just by being near one.  Someone mentioned in another theory that it's the Chora trees which create the only possibly utopia, because they remove the &quot;Bastard&quot; effect... the fact that there's always going to be someone that mucks it up.  Revelations 22:2 reads<br /><blockquote>&quot;In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.&quot;</blockquote><br />Also sound familiar?<br /><br />So, let's assume that Robert Jordan could concievably borrow from the bible as well as from other myths.  The Age of Legends would be during that time when Satan (Shai'tan), the Dark One, was bound for a thousand years.  And then our dear sweet Mierin unleashed him &quot;for a little season&quot;.  Of course, a little season in the bible is infamous for being incredibly long to mere mortals as ourselves.<br /><br />If Rand was talking to the Creator, God, who said &quot;I WILL TAKE NO PART&quot;... it's not because there is anything wrong with interfering, assuming this is the same God who led the Israelites out of Egypt, but rather because Satan has to be given his time to be loosed upon the world one last time before being thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity.<br /><br />One flaw that might be pointed out in this theory, is that if all this takes place on earth, with our history and everything, how do explain the WHEEL of time?  Doesn't the world start in the bible with Adam and Eve, making anything before then impossible, such as the portal stones which even in the Age of Legends were a mystery?<br /><br />Well, not quite.  Genesis chapter one begins with the statement that the Earth was void and without form, and that the Holy Spirit moved over its waters.  It also states that during the seven days, God separated land from water... meaning that even &quot;in the beginning&quot; there was an earth, just completely different from the Earth we know today.  This allows for ages before Adam and Eve.  If you remember Sunday School, God later said to Noah that he'd &quot;Never <i>again</i> destroy the world&quot; (my emphasis),  which allows for the possibility that He's done it already more than once...<br /><br />This also explains why the people in the books think of themselves as the third age.  The first is before the Age of Legends, ie, now, the second is the Age of Legends, ie, The Thousand Years, and the third is when the Dark One, Satan/Shai'tan, escapes.  We don't count anything before our age, because we don't know anything about its existence!<br /><br />At any rate, it doesn't actually matter one way or another in the books whether this is true or not.  But it's a possibility, and an alternative to the deist point of view, if you are inclined to look for one.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> When I saw this in the pending theories, I knew it was going to be a good one.  I'm jsut glad I was able to get to it first (since I started this whole Deism mess when I was not yet an admin way back when).  First off, well done.  Very nice to see an original thinking-ish theory, especially without <i>Crossroads of Twilight</i>!  And you are certainly correct.  Robert Jordan has taken many things from Christianity and Judaism, especially from the Bible.  He has also taken things from many other world religions.  Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Ba'hai, they're all in there.  The same with traditions and stories from other cultures.  Norse, Greek, Roman, native American, Russian, Incan mythology are all used, to name a few.  You have some very nice thoughts here.  Excellent job!  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Anyone want to add anything else?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-05 20:47:49
subject: Everything you always wanted to know about the Gholam, but were afraid to ask
body:
<p>I would like to propose a theory encompassing three areas of debate concerning one of my favorite characters, the Gholam. To try and keep this short I have broken it down to the three questions that I will address directly. Feel free to call me an idiot if you don't agree; I have a thick hide. <br /> <br /><b>1.) What is the Gholam?<br /> <br />2.) How was the Gholam created?<br /> <br />3.) Can the Gholam be killed? (In three parts) </b><br /> <i> a.) why was it hurt by the medallion?<br />       b.) Why does it need blood?<br />       c.) How could you kill it?</i><br /><br />  I believe that the Gholam is a human Ter'angreal because of the similarities between the creature and the fox-head medallion that Mat wears. And keep in mind the fact that we have been shown at least once that humans can be altered by using the one power. For instance the once- human playing pieces used in the game Zara. <br /><br />&quot;Of course, a Zara board meant his stasis box had been filled by someone who followed the Great Lord; possession of a single once-human playing piece had meant imprisonment at the least on the other side.&quot; (<i>LoC (paperback):</i> ch.23,  pg. 483) <br /><br /><br />  Given this, we know that it is possible to &#8216;realign the matrices' of a human, and that the forsaken had no qualms about doing so. It then stands to reason that the easiest way to achieve their goal (a creature impervious to the One Power), would be to turn it into a Ter'angreal that the power could not touch. This may seem a little weak, but it goes a long way towards explaining the next two parts of my theory.<br /><br />  I believe that the Gholam was created using the True power.  This was done for a very practical reason: to insure stealth. If you consider that almost every Aes Sedai can detect and identify objects of the power, it is likely that every channeler in the Age of Legends would have been able to do so.  However, the True Power can't be detected, even by someone else who has the DO's permission to channel it. What better way to conceal a Ter'angreal whose sole purpose is to destroy people who can channel?  Also, recall the Gholam's reaction to the use of the True Power:<br /><br />&quot;And a feel ... of something. Not the One Power, but something that made it ... itch, if not quite in the same way. ...The Gholam seemed to remember something that made it itch in that manner, yet so much of what he recalled was fogged and dim.&quot; (<i>PoD (paperback):</i> ch.2,  pp.83-84)  <br /><br />  It's obvious that the Gholam could not identify the True Power here. We can assume that the creature would not have simply forgotten it, since it clearly seems to remember Saidar and Saidin quite well. So it was most likely never directly assaulted with the True Power. The Gholam may only have felt the True Power used a few times (or possibly only once, at its &#8216;conception'). If the True Power had been used during its creation, it might well remember how it felt but definitely not clearly.   <br /><br />  I have two possible scenarios as to how Mat's medallion could, have hurt the Gholam. The first is very simple: the medallion is a Ter'angreal similar in purpose to the Gholam, itself. I have proposed that the Gholam might be a Ter'angreal also, creating the chance that the two could have an affect on one another. We have seen this before, when Egwene is tested for accepted. Her dream Ter'angreal causes a reverberation to occur nearly destroying the testing Ter'angreal.<br /><br />&quot;The only time I have ever seen anything like it was once years ago when we tried to use a Ter'angreal in the same room as another that may have been in some way related to it. It is extremely rare to find two such as that. The pair of them melted, and every sister within a hundred paces had such a headache for a week that she couldn't channel a spark. What's the matter, child?&quot; (<i>tDR (paperback):</i> ch.23, pg.270) <br /><br />  The Ter'angreal were similar in that both allowed access into another world, or possibly the same world. When the two were brought together, it created a resonance causing a near catastrophic (or at least an unpleasant) event.<br /><br />  The second scenario requires a little more thought, you also have to buy into my idea about the Gholam being created by the True Power. First I will state that the True Power is like the negative balance to the One Power's positive charge. If you can accept this, then try to think about what happens if you connect your jumper cables to your battery and then touch the positive and negative clamps together. You will get a spark caused by the shorting out of the current path. If you are having trouble picturing this, grab a lab partner and give it a try (avoid doing this while holding the bare ends and standing in a puddle of water).  This reaction could explain how a Ter'angreal created by the True Power (the Gholam) and one created by the One Power, (the medallion) could affect one another in a violent manner.<br /> <br />  As to why the creature has a need for blood, I theorize that it is the human part of the Gholam that makes it a useful tool. It is cunning, thinks for itself and is capable of fear (dodging the fox head medallion); these are not common traits among inanimate Ter'angreal. So keeping the body alive would be an essential part of being an effective killing machine. The consumption of fresh blood would in a way replenish the body and mind of the Gholam (therefore keeping the human part alive).<br /> <br />  Now the important part: how to kill it. Based on its need for blood, you could trap it somehow (possibly with indirect channeling) and starve it; the end result could possibly be an under fed corpse that the power couldn't touch. Another option is to attack the Gholam with indirect channeling, lightning, fire or an earthquake might do the trick.  But in my opinion, based on the fact that it is still hanging around Mat (and we have all come to grips with the fact that he will eventually harness the power of gunpowder. &quot;May the light have mercy on you if you haven't&quot; ) <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> the Gholam will most likely be blown into a million tiny pieces of meat. <br /><br />  Sorry it turned out to be so long. I tried to shorten it up but that's pretty much cutting it to the bone. Hope you enjoyed it feel free to blast me on the blackboard if you disagree I'm up for a little discussion.  <br /> <br /><br />PS: I have to say that this is the most well put together Wheel of Time site on the Internet. I would like to thank the staff for making it possible.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-06 17:14:54
subject: The Target of the Borderland Armies
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<p>This thread is a more detailed repost of a theory I posted shortly after Winter&#8217;s Heart was released.  Please be warned that it is very long and does contain very minor Glimmers spoilers.<br /><br />In Winter&#8217;s Heart, we see that the borderland rulers told Elayne that the reason they brought 200,000 men a thousand leagues south was that they are in search of the Dragon Reborn.  They said they wished to tell the Dragon Reborn that the Last Battle was to be fought in the Blight and the armies were to remind him of the importance of the role the Borderlands will play.  <br /><br />For what they told Elayne to be true, what also absolutely must be true?    Telling Elayne that they were simply to remind the Dragon Reborn of the Last Battle being fought in the Blight necessitates that the Borderland rulers discussed at length and agreed that Rand was in fact the Dragon Reborn. Yet we see in Ethenielle&#8217;s POV in TPOD that no agreement was reached on that point when they swore to their course of action.  Swearing in that sword cutting ceremony was something only done 7 times in the last 3000 years.  They did not even in fact discuss it seriously.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br />...or this fellow who claimed to be the Dragon Reborn - perhaps he was; she could not decide which way would be worse-... [TPOD  Tor paperback: Prologue p. 2]<br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br /><br />These Borderland rulers also brought with them one of the Great Captains in Agelmar Jagad and several near Great Captains.  They above all others should know that to weaken the expected front lines of the most important battle in the history by sending 200,000 soldiers several thousand miles south when mere messengers would have sufficed, is sheer idiocy.  Either the rulers and their generals must have taken collective leave of their senses or the reason so many men and their best generals were sent was that they were needed elsewhere...<br /><br />The conclusion then, is that the Borderland rulers lied to Elayne.  They lied to Elayne to get a 200,000 man army into Andor.   But what targets could they have?  Certainly not Elayne.  They had her in camp relatively alone and unguarded and did nothing to her.  Nor is their target Andor.  To go after either Elayne of Andor would be to interfere in the internal affairs of another nation.  This is something the borderland rulers would not do, nor would it require that sword ceremony.<br /><br />Their target is not the White Tower or Egwene.  If they were going after the Aes Sedai, the Tower would not be in a position to put their heads on spikes if the borderlanders succeeded.  The rulers also talk of the Tower being paralyzed, incapable of acting.  Not taking care of something that they normally do as a matter of course.  Something regarded as in the jurisdiction of the White Tower.<br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br />We leave the Blight all but unguarded, and if we fail, maybe even if we succeed, some of us could find our heads on spikes. Perhaps all of us will. The White Tower may well see to it if this al'Thor does not. [TPoD Tor paperback: Prologue p. 7] <br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br />&quot;Whatever the truth, Majesty, the White Tower appears to be paralyzed as well as shattered. You could have sat watching the Blight while the world crumbled behind you. <br />You could have if you were someone else?&quot; The simple need to act. Was that what had brought her here? Well, if the White Tower would not or could not do what had to be done, then someone must. What good to guard the Blight if the world did crumble behind her? [TPoD Tor paperback: Prologue p. 3] <br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br /><br />Nor would they allow 13 Aes Sedai of unknown allegiances to go with them if their target was directly or indirectly the White Tower.  <br /><br />Neither are the borderland armies going after the Aiel.  In Glimmers, Lord Ituralde had a POV where he was discussing the Aiel war.  He is one of the acknowledged four Great Captains.  He thought it readily apparent that the Aiel were not defeated.  He knew that they chose to withdraw and that no one, not even Hawkwing has ever defeated them in battle.  In the Aiel War, 120,000 men could not defeat 4 clans.  As one of the Great Captains and a student of military history, he should very well know that 200,000 men have no chance against 11 clans.  To go after them would also require discussion since they follow Rand of whether or not Rand is the Dragon Reborn.  The Aiel are not their target.     <br /><br /><br />As for Bashere, the Borderlanders brought simultaneously too many men, yet also not enough.   Bashere is Tenobia&#8217;s man.  Her general.  If Tenobia merely intended to discipline him for not obeying her orders,  that would not require the other rulers nor a 200,000 man army comprised of men from the entire Borderlands.  Bashere only has 9000 men.  Tenobia&#8217;s force alone would be enough if she meant to fight just Bashere.  Yet, the rulers entire army is also not enough men.  To go after someone sworn to follow Rand, it would be painfully obvious that 200,000 men would be annihilated against the forces Rand controls...  the Aiel, Andor, Tear, Illian, Cairhien as well as those who chose to follow him under the banner of the Legion of the Dragon.  And as before, serious discussion would have to be held regarding whether or not Rand was in fact the Dragon Reborn before they set out on their chosen course. <br /><br />What target is left?  What target is connected with Andor that would require their lies to Elayne, their ceremonial oath, and their large army?  What target could  make Easer think that it would be good to have 13 Aes Sedai with them...<br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br />&quot;Further south,&quot; Easar added, &quot;It may be well to have thirteen Aes Sedai with us.&quot; That brought a silence while the implications hung in the air. No one wanted to voice them. This was far different from facing the Blight. <br />[TPod Tor paperback: Prologue p. 10-11] <br />--------------------------------------------------------------- <br />What could scare the borderland rulers so much that they would risk everything...  their lives and the lives of their men.  Not only leaving their nations vulnerable to Trolloc invasion, but also all the nations of the south...  They are going after something that was the boogeyman of their world.  Something so terrible, it was used to scare children and make grown men tremble in fear.  Something that nearly destroyed their world 3000 years ago and sent it into the Dark Ages.  It is a fear so great that even the bravest of men shake in fear at the very thought of it.  It is simply a man who can channel...  Tenobia sent 9000 men after just one man... If they sent 9000 men after just one, how many would the borderland rulers send after a whole tower full of them?  <br /><br />The Borderlanders are going after the Black Tower.  <br /><br />Thanks for reading this theory.<br />mahiro</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Sounds like a very well thought out theory. I'm not sure if the Aes Sedai reasons for them not going after the White Tower are exactly the best, or that I agree with them. Aes Sedai would put themselves in that position for reasons we don't know. Other than that, I pretty much agree with your theory.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-08 15:17:22
subject: Mesaana and the Choedan Kal
body:
<p>From Shadar Haran's comments in Crossroads Of Twilight, we know that Mesaana was &quot;summoned, but did not come&quot;, or some such, in regards to the cleansing.  At first I thought that this was just Mesaana being shy.  But then I realized that when Alviarin returned to the White Tower, we were told that she returned from Tremalking.  Now come on, what is there on Tremalking except for the female half of the Choedan Kal?  Therefore...<br /><br />I believe that Mesaana sent Alviarin to mess with the female half of the Choeden Kal in such a way that the access key would self destruct on use, and the user would die.  Perhaps she did this because she got word, through Demandred or one of the other Forsaken, of Rand's plan but I think it's just as likely that she simply didn't want another woman to be able to access that amount of power.  Ater all, if she herself ever got her hands on an access key, then she could always have Alviarin undo what she had done.  <br /><br />Then, when Mesaana sensed the Choeden Kal being used and was ordered to stop it, she didn't go because she knew that the Choeden Kal had been tampered with, and didn't dare to be anywhere in the vicinity.  Of course she didn't tell any of the other Forsaken this.  Why should she?  I personally think that she rigged the access key to self-destruct, and to take out anyone in a large radius, so she probably thought she might be getting rid of some competition by keeping quiet.<br /><br />Of course, the access key didn't really self-destruct.  Or rather, it did, but it didn't kill Nynaeve or Rand or anyone nearby.  I think the reason that Nynaeve and company survived was either that Alviarin didn't do the job entirely as she should have, Mesaana underestimated Nynaeve (who was able to control the Choeden Kal in spite of the fact that it had been tampered with), or that the fact that both halves of the Choeden Kal were being used provided some protection.  <br /><br />So to conclude, the female access key melted because of Mesaana's interference, through Alviarin, with the Choeden Kal, which made the female half of the great ter'angreal unstable somehow.  Mesaana didn't show up at the cleansing because she knew the Choeden Kal was unstable, and the only reason that Nyn and Rand survived is because Alviarin either screwed up, Mesaana underestimated them or the fact that they were using the male half also mitigated the effects somewhat.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Alright, first theory from Crossraods of Twilight that is not from Glimmers.  Congratulations!<br /><br />I must admit, I did not make the connection until you pointed it out.  I had been wondering why Alviarin had gone to Tremalking, but as I finished the book only last night, I haven't had much time to process.  I think it <i>very</i> likely that Alviarin was there on Mesaana's orders.  However, something about the timing does not seem right.  Alviarin said she had secretly visited Shadar Logoth, but only after waiting for a long time to go to it.  But when she re-enters the Tower, wasn't she just coming from Tremalking?  That would mean she had gone to the island AFTER the battle was over.  This does not eliminate the possibility that she went before.  Maybe Mesaana had her check on it?<br /><br />What does everyone else think?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-08 15:47:13
subject: Is it Merilille?!
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<p>The murders of Ispan and Adeleas have caused loads of theories to pop up, suggesting a whole host of possibilities, but it is best summed up in Winters Heart, in chapter 8: <br /><br />&quot;They reasoned out that the killer must be Merilille, Sareitha, or Careane. Good thinking on their part...&quot;<br /><br />Although many also suspected Vandene as being a possibility, the most likely candidate seemed to be Sareitha Tomares, and at a first glance, Crossroads of Twilight confirms this.  In chapter 11 'Talk of Debts', Sareitha is seen to openly praise the known Darkfriend, Doilan Mellar, for a heroic rescue of some soldiers.  However, Elayne criticises him for having risked men and the city for people who hadn't even suppoerted her yet.  Even with Elayne's disapproval, Sareitha is adament that Mellar had done a good thing.<br /><br />This open praise of a man who the others despise is highly suspicious (although they do not know he is a Darkfriend) and makes the reader reach the conclusion that Sareitha is supporting her fellow baddie by praising him openly in front of the Daughter Heir in the hope that she will trust him more.  This enforces the idea that she is Black Ajah and lays the murder of Adeleas at her feet ...<br /><br />HOWEVER, this is too obvious.  Sareitha has no reason to praise Mellar so openly and warmly, even if they both do happen to be Darkfriends.  As Alviarin notes later, &quot;Too many of the (Dark)Friends thought themselves equal to Aes Sedai, or even superior&quot; and this thought seems to be shared by most Black Ajah we have met - Sareitha would not congratulate the man so warmly regardless.  No, Sareitha's congratulations to Mellar are too glaring, a red herring laid by Jordan to make us conclude that Sareitha, the most obvious culprit, really was the killer.  There is other interesting cirsumstantial evidence revealed in Crossroads of Twilight that suggests someone else ...<br /><br />Merilille Ceandevin was listed as one of the other possible murderers.  However, most have dismissed her due to her recent harrowed look, thought by most to be the stresses of teaching the Sea Folk.  What if that isn't the cause though?  After all, she is Gray Ajah, a negotiator and therefore skilled at dealing with stubborn people.  I personally belive her stressed look comes either from guilt, at having killed a fellow sister, or more likely, is a front put on to make pople think of her as incapable of murder.  Elayne herself, in chapter 11, concludes that, &quot;The charge was hard to believe of Merilille, in her present condition.&quot;  This again is a red herring esigned to put the reader off the trail. (we should know by now to believe the opposite of any of the major character's assumptions!)<br /><br />Later, in chapter 14, 'What Wise Ones Know' however, she disappears with a Sea Folk Apprentice in tow.  This is clearly not a sign that she is Black Ajah, but the circumstances are suspicious.  Elayne concludes that Merilille has taken the apprentice to be entered in the novice books, a preposterous notion.  In the middle of winter, a journey to Tar Valon would be highly impossible, especially with it under siege.  It is even less likely that she would travel in secret - &quot;hooded and cloaked&quot; as one servant noticed - perhaps a reminder of the cold but more likely emphasis on haste, urgency and a desire to remain anonymous; we have to ask why an Aes Sedai would wish to hide her leaving with an apprentice (yes, the Sea Folk would be cross at her kidnapping their channeler, but it is likely she would have told a fellow sister).  Merilille's sudden disappearance is hard to explain, unless we conclude that she is Black Ajah and has either been called away or is escaping.<br /><br />An other possibility is suggested by Elayne that there is not just one murderer but &quot;worse, more than one&quot;.  Sareitha could conceivably be in cohorts with Merilille forming two thirds of a Black Ajah heart.  I don't agree with this theory though it does explain Sareitha's fawing over Mellar; I personally would explain it by the fact she has a misguided attraction to the man.  Despite the description of him &quot;not pretty, or even handsome&quot;, he does have a certain charm that some women could fall for, especially f they did not know about his past.  His far fetched tales about frequent victories as a mercenary could conceivably attract so new a sister.<br /><br />Personally, I am very interested to see where exactly Merillile Ceandevin is heading/escaping to in the next book but this for me, at the moment, certainly puts her at the top of my list of people police would most like to talk to in conection with Adeleas' murder.<br /></p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> I must say, I had definitely not thought that Merilille could be the killer.  Even while reading Crossroads of Twilight it never even occured to me.  Until she fled.  I think that that is DAMNING evidence against her.  I would like to see someone go back and re-evaluate everything she's said or done leading up to the attack and since it.  Any takers?<br /><br />Excellent job!  Way to throw more wood into the fire of our second favorite whodunnit murder!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-09 19:54:18
subject: Tylin's Fate
body:
<p>The Queen is dead! Long live King Beslan!<br /><br />Tylin's death surprised me as much as it surprised the characters. But who was the killer?<br /><br />The Seanchan thought it was the escaping Sea Folk Windfinders. But their route of escape took them far from Tylin's bedchamber.<br /><br />Egeanin thought the Aes Sedai would be blamed. However, the Three Oaths prevent non-Black sisters from murder.<br /><br />We can eliminate Beslan from the roll of suspects. Sure, being the only surviving heir put him in line for the throne. But Tylin was his mother and I don't think he was vicious enough to kill his mother so messily.<br /><br />The Seanchan Seeker Mor thought it was either Mat or Thom who killed Tylin for knowing too much. We can eliminate Mat easily. Thom claimed that he found out about the murder from Seanchan soldiers in a tavern, and he has no reason to murder a queen, even though he murdered the Cairhienin King Galldrian (he was upset over the king's murder of his girlfriend who would be the first gleewoman).<br /><br />In addition, it is not in Thom's fashion to tear someone's head off and leave the body for anyone to find.<br /><br />Rather, it is the very fashion of the murder which points the finger at the gholam who has been terrorizing Ebou Dar for so long.<br /><br />The gholam was aware of Mat's danger to it (the foxhead ter'angreal) and thought of going after Mat as being a priority. We know that the gholam is sentient, therefore it would be smart enough to figure out where Mat was staying. It would be very easy for it to slip into the Tarasin Palace past the guards and into Tylin's bedchamber. Of course, Tylin being tied up under the bed prevented her from doing anything.<br /><br />Mat's inner dice was tumbling just as the group was trying to get through the city gate out of Ebou Dar. Perhaps the dice tumbled at the danger of being caught by the gate guards. Perhaps they also tumbled at the momentous murder of the Queen of Altara and as luck (or the very generous Pattern) would have it, Mat chose to flee Ebou Dar on the very night the gholam would have tried to kill Mat.<br /><br />If I understand Seanchan society and morals correctly, the disappearances of Tuon, a high Seanchan officer (Egeanin), several damane and sul'dam, the Windfinders' escape, the lingering memory of the Seanchan defeat inflicted by Rand in Illian, and the murder of Queen Tylin should have shamed High Lady Suroth into suicide, or at least into going to apologize to the Empress, may she live forever in honor and glory. The fact that Suroth has not done either reveals her darkfriend priorities have not changed yet.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> I agree with these conclusion.  Mat draws the same conclusions about Tylin's killer.  I also was very surprised when it happened.  One of several deaths that we don't witness; we just hear about them all of a sudden.  This book certainly held many surprises.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-10 05:16:32
subject: <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/oh.gif" border="0" />
body:
<p>It has long been a mystery to my sophisticated American mind why the Quokka has become such a fixture here at wotmania.  Why should such an unassuming animal be so ardently worshipped, particularly by those of the southern regions on the planet.  The quokka is, perhaps, as unassuming as the hedgehog.<br /><br />But where the hedgehog  was an innocent bystander to evil, the quokka is surely mired in black doing, hailing back to the Age of Legends.<br /><br />When Nynaeve had defeated Moghedien in the Panarch's Palace in Tanchico, she retrieved first the necklace and bracelets, and turned to retrieve the seal.  It reads as such:<br /><br />There were seven figurines in the case.  Seven, and no seal.<br />For a moment she could only stare.  One of the figures, <b>and odd animal shaped roughly like a pig, but with a large round snout and feet as wide as its thick legs</b>, stood where the seal had, in the center of the table.<br />-TSR, Ch. 54 &quot;Into the Palace&quot;, page 911 of paperback<br /><br />Clearly, this was meant to be a quokka!  The quokka is so very vile, so evil and close to the Dark One himself, even Moghedien feared to make its form exactly the same.  That would obviously be sacrilege against her Great Lord of the Dark.<br /><br />And now this horrid little creature has infest the Land Down Under!  They have recognized the Beast among their number and turned to it, and away from the Light.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/frown.gif" border="0" />  Weep for Australia.  Weep for what was lost forever. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/disapprove.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> LOL!!!!!! I have long wondered about that myself. It now  seems obvious to me. How could we all have missed it?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-10 14:15:54
subject: What Myrelle Knows
body:
<p>In Crossroads of Twilight, Myrelle is about to tell Egwene something when Maigan walks in:<br /><br />Myrelle turned from the brazier as if steeling herself to put a hand on the coals. &quot;Mother, I have been thinking about the day Shadar Logoth was destroyed-&quot;<br /><br />(Crossroads of Twilight, Chapter 30, What The Oath Rod Can Do)<br /><br />Maigan is not one of those to have sworn fealty to Egwene, having only been appointed by the Blues following Anaiya's death, so Myrelle could not continue with what she was about to say.<br /><br />Clearly it is to do with the cleansing at Shadar Logoth.<br /><br />Clearly this is not something Myrelle wants to say, but feels she should or has to.<br /><br />I believe Myrelle was about to tell Egwene that Lan was in a direct line with Shadar Logoth the day the cleansing took place. Just as Elayne and Aviendha could not tell Rand's exact location, but knew he was in line with the surge of Power, Myrelle would feel the same thing with Lan.<br /><br />This would also explain Myrelle's reluctance to say anything. Few people know of her bonding of Lan and the fact that he had no say in the matter could, likely would get her in serious trouble with the Hall. Egwene of course does know, but Morvrin is also in the tent at the time. Myrelle would be reluctant for Morvrin to hear, but if she felt it important enough she would say it anyway and hope that Egwene would order Morvrin to tell no one, as Egwene no doubt would. Maigan, however, would have no need to keep her mouth shut over such a matter, it would even be something she could use against Egwene and Myrelle if she told the Hall that Egwene had kept such information from them.<br /><br />Myrelle would had been reluctant even if only she, Egwene and Suian had been present anyway. They may know of the bonding, but Egwene would not be happy that Myrelle had kept Lan's location to herself for so long.<br /><br />Myrelle must have felt Lan jump suddenly from somewhere to the far south (Far Madding) to somewhere much more to the west (Shadar Logoth). She could have already guessed that he was with a strong channeler because he was heading off for Nynaeve last time she saw him, but with all the channeling she would have known he was. So when Lan arrived to the west with at least one strong channeler hardly anytime before the surge in Power happened, with the surge being in exactly the same direction as Lan, she would have easily worked out that the events are connencted. And with Lan surviving the surge, and at least one other channeler surving as she would have felt him jump again far to the east (it seems unlikely Cadsuane woudl have done anything but Travel to Tear), she could begin to speculate that it wasn't the Forsaken channeling so much. She couldn't know, Lan could simply have miraculously survived somehow, but it would be a consideration for her.<br /><br />As for why she did not tell Egwene before, perhaps she saw some advantage in having everyone believe it was the Forsaken. It would certainly be useful in pushing the Tower towards uniting as quickly as possible.<br /><br />Why tell her now though? Well, the idea that it is the Forsaken has not only pushed the Hall towards trying to unite the Tower as quickly as possible, it has also brought forth the suggestion of an alliance with the Asha'man (or whatever they want to call it) to withstand such a threat. This could well be something Myrelle is not happy with, as many others are not, and if revealing that it might just not be the Forsaken behind the surge in Power could stop the alliance, she'll take the risk.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Her comments indicate that she does indeed know something or worked something out, and it is very likely it has something to do with Lan.  She certainly would not say anything with Maigan present if she had to mention her bond with Lan.  This is a well-reasoned out theory.  Excellent job.  Full marks for this one.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Anyone have another idea as to what she could be saying?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-10 14:23:53
subject: Merilille Leaving
body:
<p>Although aranvor_naldwinn posted that Merilille fleeing was proof of her being Black Ajah, I have a radically different take.  Remember that Merilille is Gray Ajah and in a very uncomfortable postiion because of the bargain with the Sea Folk.  So she naturally would leap at any chance to change the bargain.<br /><br />We know from Winter's Heart that Talaan wants to become a novice.  <br />Now, we are told in Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight that Merilille is grouped with the other Sea Folk apprentices, sleeping in the same bed.  Here is a possible conversation they had just before she left:<br /><br />T:  Nynaeve's gone?<br />M:  Yes.  She has left for no reason.<br />T:  I hope it wasn't because I told her that I wanted to be a novice.<br />M:  You do?<br />T:  Yes, very much so.  Without an Aes Sedai telling a Wavemistress that I would not be able to go.<br />M:  You know, the bargain doesn't cover this.  If they want to keep you, they will have to renegotiate.<br />T:  But look what happened when Elyane and Nynaeve tried to bargain.<br />M:  You're right.  They flubbed it!  I will give it a try and find the Mistress of Ships to renegotiate.<br />T:  But she is dead in Ebou Dar.  I hear we are choosing one in Illian.<br />M:  Let's go to Illian!<br /><br />Talaan's situation isn't covered under the bargain-only those who want not to be Aes Sedai.  Merilille would want to get away from the Sea Folk.  She would want to negotiate herself after the mistakes Elyane made.  If she went to Elyane with any of this, Elyane would tell her to not do anything.<br /><br />In conclusion, they left to go to Illian via Gateway.  (They had to get away from Aviendha who can read residues.)</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Well this is <i>certainly</i> a different take on the situation, and certainly possible.  Personally I am more inclined to suspect Merilille than give her the benefit of the doubt, but I'm paranoid about such things.  It seems that such a conversation would be random and not very likely to take place, especially off camera.  But of course, when has that ever stopped Robert Jordan before?  Perhaps this theory will bring up even more ideas as to why she left.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-10 14:40:42
subject: Mesaana Is a Sitter
body:
<p>So I'm in class, and of course am here instead of taking notes.  I don't have my book with me now, but look in the chapter where Alviarin comes back to the Tower. <br /><br />Alviarin is scolded by Eliada, and is threatened to be punished by the Mistress of Novices in front of the Sitters.<br /><br />Let's go back to the meeting.  First, the meeting concludes.  The Sitters present in the meeting leave Eliada and Alviarin alone.  Almost immediately Eliada gets up and slaps Alviarin.  She says a few words, threatens her, it takes no more than 1-2 minutes(if that), and Alviarin takes off.  Later, when she returns to her room and calls Mesaana, she(M) says that her(A's) punishment should be thought of a gift from her(M).  Mesaana knew that she was going to be punished!  How? <br /><br />Now, we know that Alviarin sprinted to her rooms.  She ran straight there and paged Mesaana.<br /><br />From here we have two possibilities:<br />1) In the 2-5 minutes that it takes Alviarin to get back to her room, plus the maybe 30 sec it takes Mesaana to respond, the Sitters blabbed, and Mesaana, wherever she was in the Tower, heard.<br />or<br />2) Mesaana knew because she was there.<br /><br />I find it hard to believe that she found out so soon.  I find that Jordan doesn't believe in coincidences. <br /><br />Therefore, I believe that Mesaana was one of the Sitters present at the meeting.  If she is, this would eliminate my previous favorite candidate, Danelle.  Oh well. <br /><br />So, who is she?  Well, first I think that Mesaana changed her appearance, so the blue eye hint is out.  The question is, would she change her clothes? <br /><br />The dresses and attire the Aes Sedai wear doesn't seem to me to be easy to just throw on and be looking great(not like sweats, which you can just throw on in a second).  Yes she could use the One Power to change her clothes, but if we are going along the assumption that she was wearing the same thread/dress as in Winter's Heart(doesn't she do wash?), and did not &quot;change&quot; her dress, we need to look to the previous book's description of the Sitters who were present at the meeting.<br /><br />(note* - we all know the saying about assuming, this would be the weak link here.)<br /><br />But, lets look as Mesaana.  She has the shadow disguise and the silver lipstick and eyes.  She believes Alviarin and the Aes Sedai to be no better that poorly trained girls.  Maybe her arrogance has tripped her up.  If this is true, then why bother to change clothes when her scary shadow disguise confuses Alviarin?  Mesaana doesn't expect the Dark One to come and mess with her plans.  Mesaana is just dropping in.  Alviarin disrupted whatever Mesaana was doing.  Alviarin notes that she sounded annoyed(I forget the exact word), but she clearly notes Mesaana doesn't sound mad, which would have or could have meant death.<br /><br />Clearly, Shaidar Harian/the Dark One's visit was a surprise, and his removing her shadow was not planned.  Therefore, I believe Mesaana had not changed her clothes.<br /><br />Therefore, Mesaana must be:.............I don't know. I told you I was in class. <br /><br />But find out cause I'm dying to know.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> This chapter certainly offers more evidence as to who Mesaana is.  Let's look at what else we know from it.<br /><br />Alviarin notes that over half of the Sitters are there.  That means there are at least 10 Sitters present.  Only 9 names are listed, so Danelle could have been one of the unnamed Sitters.<br /><br />Mesaana is a blue-eyed woman wearing bronze-embroidered green who is tantalizingly familiar who looks just short of her middle years.<br /><br />Now, she could have changed her appearance somewhat, but probably not that much if she is so familiar to Alviarin.<br /><br />Blue eyes.  Rubinde is one of the sitters, and she is described as having eyes the color of sapphires.<br />Wearing green.  Talene is wearing green silk skirts.  She is also black ajah, however.<br /><br />We need some more descriptions of those Sitters listed, and all of the other Sitters in the Tower.  Anyone up for the task?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-10 14:46:46
subject: Where Is Padan Fain?
body:
<p>He's dead.<br /><br />You might be wondering, &quot;if Padan Fain was killed why didn't I read about it?&quot;  Well you would be wrong, you did read about it.  However the reason why you probably didn't notice that Padan Fain was murdered was that it was such an ignoble death.<br /><br />As we all remember from Winter's Heart the last place that we knew his whereabouts was in Caemlyn.<br /><br />In chapter 15, Daved Hanlon runs across a padfoot in the depths of the night and kills him without a second thought and then rummages through his possessions.<br /><br />&quot;A squeeze at the dead man's sleeve found... a sinewy arm.&quot;<br />(pg 379)<br /><br />We all remember that Fain is described as being skinny.<br /><br />&quot;A leather sheath hung there empty.&quot; <br /><br />The destruction of Fain's city in Winter's Heart could have resulted in the destruction of his precious dagger.<br /><br />Thus ends the life of the infamous Padan Fain, who died the death of anonymous thief on the streets of Caemlyn</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> It did seem rather strange that the man's dagger sheath was described as empty.  Why mention such a minute detail?  However, I am not sure if Fain ever actually used a sheath.  And it seems such a pathetic lame way to kill Fain off.  While it is possible, I doubt it is Fain.  Perhaps it is another character that we've come across.  Any other ideas?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-10 15:58:38
subject: The Purpose of Setalle Anan
body:
<p>Setalle Anan.<br /><br />I have thinking about her for quite a while now, and what her role is with Tuon.<br /><br />I finally came up with a reasonable hypothesis.<br /><br />Anan is a plot-moving character, designed by Jordan to help Tuon gain a mental understanding of the human-nature of channelers.<br /><br />Right now, Tuon most likely shares the Seanchan view on damane that they are less than human, like animals. Just look back to her quotes to Mat in Winter's Heart, when she said that some perverts liked to sneak in with the damane.<br /><br />I think it is pretty well established by now, that Anan is the one who is no longer. She is a burnt out Aes Sedai. In general, most of us at Theorypost accept this theory.<br /><br />The thing is, Setalle is currently guarding Tuon, and they appear to be getting along nicely. Anan is even siding with Tuon, and taking quite a motherly approach.<br /><br />In Crossroads of Twilight, Tuon had the big revelation, from Egeanin, that sul'dam can be collared, and can learn to channel. Mat could see the surprise on her face even, though she masked it well.<br /><br />This is going to begin a huge inner-conflict inside of Tuon. Tuon is going to have to reevaluate everything she knows, assuming that she didn't know this already, which I don't think she did.<br /><br />Eventually, I think it will be revealed that Anan used to be an Aes Sedai. Tuon is going to be blown away, because she allowed herself to get close to Anan, and to see that she wasn't really an animal or a half-human.<br /><br />This is just a theory, but I think it stands to reason.<br /></p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Tuon and Setalle Anan seem to share a similar relationship as that of Egeanin and Nynaeve.  Both liked each other, and Nynaeve was shocked to find out that Egeanin was Seanchan.  She eventually overcame this.  Just as Tuon will overcome Anan being an Aes Sedai.  The similarity is very striking.  Excellent job.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-11 18:44:17
subject: Where did the Shadow GO????
body:
<p>I just finished CoT and I had to note that except for the lousy scenes with Mesaana and Halima, none of the Forsaken get any time and they don't have any of their usual meetings.  This means I have to use my incredible psychic powers to read RJ's mind and tell you what they're doing.  For the men:<br /><br /><i>Ishamael (Moridin)</i>:  After a long talk with Shaidar Haran on how to maintain sanity while using the TP, he reached the conclusion that he needs to get a hobby.  He left in search of one.<br /><br /><i>Aginor (O'sangar)</i>:  Luckily for him, shortly after he was fried, Ishamael realized that while it was impossible to lose while playing Sha'rah against yourself, it is also incredibly dull.  With all the grand masters dead, Ishy convinced the DO to put Aginor into the body of a helpless invalid as punishment.  Further, saidin has been cut off and he's forced to play endless games against Ishy using the TP to move his pieces.  He is going insane for more than one reason.<br /><br /><i>Balthamel (A'rangar)</i>: Realizing her(?) headaches were not sufficient to completely control Egwene, Halima has decided to try something more severe, such as leprosy or hypoglycemia, so far with no success.<br /><br /><i>Bel'al</i>:  Yeah, everyone thinks he's balefired and gone but what they fail to realize is that as Moiraine balefired him, he realized what was happening and called upon the TP to save him.  However he only had time to get enough power to save a portion of his soul and transfer it into something that was compatible with his soul.  Know what that is?  Just remove the L from the end of his name.  That's right, Bela is not the Creator or the DO, Bel'al's soul is reforming within her.  Bela was reasonable for Anaiya's death, hence the saidin resonances.<br /><br /><i>Asmodean</i>:  Asmodean's soul was wiped clean so his soul is awaiting rebirth.  He's one of Elayne's twins.  How's that for a twist?<br /><br /><i>Sammael</i>:  Absorbed by Shadar Logoth, he melded with the city.  When the city was destroyed by the Choeden Kal, he followed the weave out but got caught in a vortex nearby near the river.  He's now trapped in the Tower of Ghenji and is plotting escape with Moiraine.<br /><br /><i>Demandred</i>:  He's suffering from some serious identity issues as he tries to decide whether his name is Demandred, Taimandred, Dobrainedred, Masemadred, or The Great Rubber Chicken.  To escape this turmoil, he is now isolated from the rest of society as he is masquerading as the Empress of Seanchan.  No one suspects anything except for the female shea dancers who now think the Empress is a horrible pervert.<br /><br />And the ladies:<br /><br /><i>Lanfear (Cyndane)</i>:  Having been cut off from the TP for her transgressions, Lanfear now thinks she has figured out the flaw in her first weave to find a combined power source (the flawed attempt that wound up opening the Bore).  The only thing she needs is to find Beidomon, her original companion who has conveniently been reborn as Olver.  She's given up on the whole Lews Therin love bit and has decided that she can take over the world without him.<br /><br /><i>Mesaana</i>:  Mesaana's plans are falling apart due to Shaidar Haran's interference.  She took a serious self-evaluation and has decided the source of all her repressed anger was her not getting the research position she wanted and being stuck teaching.  It is a little known fact that she also has the foretelling and saw Mat equipping an army with firearms.  She is now in Rand's academy in Cairhien developing the atom bomb to counter Mat's invention and retain supremacy and a check against the Choeden Kal.<br /><br /><i>Semirhage (Anath)</i>:  She went into seclusion because Balthamel's obsession with causing headaches and other forms of pain has attracted her interest and they are codeveloping a new disease called AIDS.  She has also fallen in love with Balth/A'ran and is deciding whether to petition the DO to give it a male body again or whether she likes it better this way.<br /><br /><i>Graendal</i>:  Graendal has recently run into serious cash-flow problems due to the ongoing civil war and is under heavy pressure to actually do something to avoid being removed from the ranks of the Chosen.  She has discovered that she can use flashboxes from a stasis box to take pictures of her pets and sell them.  She is starting a distribution network for her smut called 'Playthings.'  It is hoped that if she can capture any of the leading characters (Rand, his ladies, Perrin, Faile, Mat, Daughter of Moons etc.) she can sell their pictures and discredit them, causing a lot of pointless personal arguments, thus delaying Tarmon Gai'don for at least an extra book and give the DO more time.<br /><br /><i>Moghedien</i>:  Having narrowly survived the battle at the Choeden Kal, Mog has been reassigned to build up an Ogier Darkfriend network.  Having failed thus far, her backup plan to retain favor is to place her soul inside a captured Ogier Treesinger and use this ability to create an army of killer trees.  She is currently eyeing Loial.<br /><br /><b>Others</b>:<br /><br /><i>Slayer</i>:  Slayer is up North raising the Golden Crane to recreate Malkier.  So far no one has noticed, so he contents himself with slaughtering small rodents in the Dream World.<br /><br /><i>Shaidar Haran</i>:  He is now searching for the seals so he can release the DO.  Having had no luck so far, he has sunk into a mild depression and is now torturing draghkar and dallying with female Trollocs to relieve stress.<br /><br /><i>Padan Fain</i>:  Fain's dagger melted when Shadar Logoth fried.  Furthermore, the Mordeth in him died.  He has recanted his oaths to the Dark One and has gone back to his peddling business based in Lugard.  Unfortunately, he ran into the Band of the Red Hand who killed him due to his unreasonable asking price for Two Rivers tabac (Talmanes is a hard-core nicotine addict and NEEDED some now and had lost all his money on bad horse races).  Afterwards, Talmanes went into a rehab program and is currently listening to King Roedran talk about his problems.<br /><br />Okay, that sums it up.  Glad I could help.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-15 12:33:17
subject: The Complete Case Against Vandene
body:
<p>I know there have already been a few theories about Vandene being the one to murder Adeleas, however, I feel they have all lacked proof. I will attempt to show there is evidence that I have not seen mentioned anywhere before, and foreshadowing as well. I apologize for the length, but there is a lot of information scattered throughout several books.<br /><br /> First, let's go back to the Path of Daggers for a view of the hut and a summary of the event: <br /><br /><i>&quot;There was little to see, aside from the obvious. A second three-legged stool, a rough table holding a flickering lamp, a green teapot and a second cup, a rude stone fireplace with cold ash on the hearthstone.&quot;</i><br /><br /> Next, Nynaeve is talking:<br /><br /><i>&quot;This is crimsonthorn root,&quot; she said, trying to sound matter-of-fact and failing. &quot;It's sweet, so you might miss it in tea unless you know what it is, especially if you take a lot of honey.&quot;<br /><br /> Vandene nodded, never taking her eyes from her sister. &quot;Adeleas developed a taste for sweet tea in Ebou Dar.&quot;<br /><br /> &quot;A little kills pain,&quot; Nynaeve said. &quot;This much ... This much kills, but slowly. Even a few sips would be enough.&quot; Taking a deep breath, she added, &quot;They might have remained conscious for hours. Not able to move, but aware. Either whoever did this didn't want to risk someone coming too soon with an antidote-not that I know one, for a brew this strong-or else they wanted one or the other to know who was killing them.&quot;<br /><br /> &quot;Ispan, I think, since they appear to have taken the most time with her.&quot; The white-haired Green almost seemed to be thinking aloud, working out a puzzle. Cutting a throat took less time than driving a stake through someone's heart. The calm of her made Elayne's skin crawl. &quot;Adeleas would never have accepted anything to drink from someone she didn't know, not out here with Ispan. Those two facts name her killer, in a way. A Darkfriend, and one of our party. One of us.&quot;</i> TPoD, Crimsonthorn, HB, p.546 &amp; 547.<br /><br /> <br /> There is something that I don't see in the hut where Adeleas was killed. Honey. The suspect Aes Sedai that would have seen her drink sweetened tea in Ebou Dar, should have sent honey along with the pot, so she could add some herself. Anyone that drinks sweetened coffee or tea knows what I'm getting at here.  Everyone sweetens their drink to their own taste. You do not sweeten the whole pot. <br /> <br /> However, if Vandene or her warder Jaim brought it, there would be no such complications. Either one of them would likely know how sweet she liked her tea, and bringing a pot of it already sweetened would not be suspicious.  <br /> <br /> There is one other thing I will point out here. This supposed taste for sweet tea is recently acquired. Someone that is probably over two hundred years old, suddenly changing their taste like that, is rather strange. I think it is very possible that Adeleas was using crimsonthorn for some type of chronic pain. Vandene knew this, and gave her an overdose. This would explain the lack of a honey container in the hut even better.<br /> <br /> <br />Now I want to go back to The Great Hunt, and the foreshadowing I mentioned. Moiraine's POV: <br /><br /><i>&quot;She rose and moved to the window, peered into the night toward the lights of the village, not far off. No danger of pursuit here. No one would expect her to come here. Clear my head, and begin again, she thought. That is all there is to do.<br /><br /> None of the villagers had any suspicion that the two elderly sisters living in this snug house were Aes Sedai. One did not suspect such things in a small place like Tifan's Well, a farming community deep in the grassy plains of Arafel. The villagers came to the sisters for advice on their problems and cures for their ills, and valued them as women blessed by the Light, but no more. Adeleas and Vandene had gone into voluntary retreat together so long ago that few even in the White Tower remembered they still lived.&quot;</i> TGH, Watchers, HB, p.269 &amp; 270.<br /><br /> What I think is important in this passage, is that none of the villagers know that the two sisters are Aes Sedai, yet they come to them for cures. This suggests to me, that they are curing these ills with herbs. Healing would certainly be a dead give-away. I think this indicates that Vandene and Adeleas may have had the knowledge about crimsonthorn root, since Nynaeve describes it as a painkiller.  <br /><br /> Later in the same chapter, we have more foreshadowing:<br /><br /><i>&quot;Vandene came in with a teapot and cups on a tray. She was slender and graceful, with a straight back, and the hair gathered neatly at the nape of her neck was almost white. The agelessness of her smooth face was that of long, long years. &quot;I would have had Jaem bring this, and not disturb you myself, but he's out in the barn practicing with his sword.&quot;</i> TGH, Watchers, HB, p.274.<br /><br /> Does that paragraph ring a bell? That is one of the reasons why I believe that Vandene or her warder Jaim, took the poisoned tea to Adeleas and Ispan. <br /> <br /> However, we must remember that the tea was meant for Adeleas. Once she drank it, she may not have been able to channel. If that is the case, then Vandene would have to be nearby to assume the shield on Ispan, who might not have drank any yet. Ispan was probably forced to drink it after Adeleas was killed, or bound with the Power. Thus the reason the second cup was on the table, instead of on the floor like the other one.<br /> <br /> Of course, another suspicious circumstance is the fact that Vandene was not in the hut questioning Ispan with her sister. From the cold hearth, and burned down lamp, it's apparent the murders took place in the night, but Vandene was gone until the next morning when the bodies were found. Why would she leave her sister alone all night with a member of the Black Ajah, in a hut apart from everyone, unlinked?  Where was she that was more important? The scenario that had been playing out, was to do the interrogation together, from sundown to sunup. There were two stools and a cot in there. The two sisters could have taken turns sleeping on the cot, and remained linked to maintain the shield. <br /><br /> And that link is another thing. When Vandene and Adeleas first take Ispan for questioning, they form a circle that Elayne describes as being so strong, that a Forsaken couldn't break it. Next, we get another POV from her, that tells us that they can maintain the integrity of that link as long as they stay within a couple hundred paces of each other. Then a little later, Sareitha tells the Windfinders that a link can be kept intact even if one of the channelers goes to sleep. After they use the Bowl of the Winds, we get yet another POV from Elayne, when Caire releases the Source completely while still being linked. It is not the right way to end a circle, and it was described as standing on the highest tower in the world, and then suddenly the tower isn't there anymore. An eye-popping experience. (TPoD, chaps.4-5)<br /><br /> All of that is given to us in the same book in which Adeleas is murdered. Did the two sisters remain linked? There is one passage that suggests they did. Here it is: <br /><br /><i>&quot;Ispan certainly presented problems that Elayne was sure would grow, yet after a few days, Vandene and Adeleas let her go unhooded if not unshielded, a silent figure with colored beads in her thin braids, ageless face turned down and hands still on her reins.&quot; TPoD, Into Andor, HB, p.397. </i><br /><br /> Both sisters names are mentioned. It does not say that they were taking turns shielding her, which would be obvious by the lack of a glow around one of them. There is no reason for them not to maintain the link, nor any reason for us to assume they did not remain that way. <br /><br /> More importantly, Jordan goes out of his way to tell us all of that information about them linking, how strong it was, how far apart they can be from each other, that one of them can go to sleep, and what it feels like when someone leading a circle lets go of the Source before releasing the link. Given all of that, Vandene would have known the second her sister died. <br /><br /> There is more evidence against Vandene. <br /> <br /> We need to go farther back in TGH. Liandrin is talking to Moiraine in Fal Dara, as she and Anaiya escort her to the Amyrlin:<br /><br /><i>&quot;Three more false Dragons.&quot; Liandrin bit the words off. &quot;In Saldaea, Murandy, and Tear false Dragons ravage the land.&quot;</i><br /><br />  Further down, same page:<br /><br /><i>&quot;It isn't so grim as that,&quot; Anaiya said. &quot;As far as we know, only the one in Saldaea can channel. He has not had time to attract many followers, and sisters should already be there to deal with him.The Tarens are harrying their false Dragon and his followers through Haddon Mirk, while the fellow in Murandy is already in chains.&quot;</i> TGH, Summoned, HB, p. 41.<br /><br /> Let's go forward to Siuan, talking to Moiraine's at Fal Dara, just a few minutes later:<br /><br /><i>&quot;What if Logain was the one? He could channel, before the Reds brought him to the White Tower and we gentled him. So can Mazrim Taim, the man in Saldaea. What if it is him? There are sisters in Saldaea already; he may be taken by now.&quot;</i> TGH, The Shadow in Shienar, HB, p.55.<br /><br /> It should be noted that our heroes have been in Fal Dara, a fairly large city, for a month since returning from the Blight. No word has made it here yet about any more false Dragons. Liandrin is the first to mention it. Notice that Anaiya says only the one in Saldaea can channel, and he has not had time to attract many followers yet, but that sisters should already be there. Neither one calls him by name. Siuan finally tells us it is Mazrim Taim, and she even says he might be taken by now. This is the very first time we hear his name mentioned.<br /> <br /> Let's go back to Vandene talking to Moiraine in Tifan's Well:<br /><br /><i>&quot;Moiraine, whatever are you after? The Prophecies, I can understand--we hear some news here, remote as we are.&quot;</i><br /><br /> Then, farther down the page, Vandene gives us info about the Watchers Over the Waves, and the Dragon Reborn proclaiming himself, and finishes with this:<br /><br /><i>&quot;Adeleas may think I'm foolish, but I listen to every scrap I hear coming from Saldaea these days. Mazrim Taim can channel, so I hear, and our sisters haven't managed to corner him yet. If the Dragon is Reborn, and the Horn of Valere is found, then the Last Battle is coming soon. We may never finish our history.&quot; She gave a shiver, then abruptly laughed. &quot;Odd thing to worry about. I suppose I am becoming more a Brown. Horrible thing to contemplate. Ask your next question.&quot;</i><br /><br /><i>&quot;I do not think you need to worry about Taim,&quot; Moiraine said absently. It was a link with Toman Head, however small and tenuous. He will be dealt with as Logain was.&quot;</i> TGH, Watchers, HB, p.275-276.<br /><br /> Then, on the next page, we have this from Vandene:<br /><br /><i>&quot;The Illianers call the Great Hunt of the Horn. False Dragons abound. And two of them, Logain and now this fellow in Saldaea, able to channel. When was the last time the Reds found two men channeling in less than a year? When did they last find one in five years? Not in my lifetime, and I am a good deal older than you.&quot;</i><br /><br />Then, a little later, from Moiraine, is this:<br /><br /><i>&quot;After the white-haired Aes Sedai left, Moiraine gathered her cloak and, muttering to herself, went into the garden. There was something in what Vandene had said that tugged at her mind, but she could not remember what it was. An answer, or a hint to an answer, for a question she had not asked--but she could not bring the question to mind, either.&quot;</i><br /><br /> Moiraine's conversation with Vandene takes place 15 days after leaving Fal Dara, where she first heard of Taim. The fact that there are more false Dragons running loose is not common knowledge. The fact that one of them can channel, and sisters are on the way to take care of him, isn't widely known either. His actual name appears to be almost a secret.  <br /><br /> Yet, Vandene not only knows Mazrim Taim's name, she knows he can channel, and says that the Aes Sedai haven't captured him yet either. This, coming from Vandene, after she just said that she does hear some news here, remote as they are. From a small farming community deep in the grassy plains of Arafel, it appears Vandene knows more than the Amyrlin Seat does about Taim. <br /><br /> I have often wondered what answer, or hint to an answer of an unasked question Moiraine had missed. She didn't catch this right away because she was thinking about Toman Head; &quot;I do not think you need to worry about Taim,&quot; She said absently. <br /><br />  When Vandene brings up the subject again, this time, she doesn't use Taim's name, but she mentions the other false Dragons. <i>&quot;False Dragons abound. And two of them, Logain and now this fellow in Saldaea able to channel.&quot; </i><br /><br /> And look at where the other false Dragons are; Tear and Murandy. A very long distance from Arafel.<br /><br /> Of course after this exchange, Moiraine is attacked by the warded dragkar. I will only say here that Moiraine's earlier POV says there was no danger of pursuit here, that no one would expect her to come here. <br /><br /> We know how hard it would be to track them with Lan covering their backtrail. I find it hard to believe that Liandrin, who was raised in a city, Tanchico to be exact, would be able to accomplish this. It would take someone highly skilled in woodcraft, and Liandrin does not fit the bill.<br /><br /> Some might point out here too, that since Jaim helped Lan kill the dragkar, that he couldn't be a Darkfriend. I don't think that exonerates him. If he doesn't help Lan, wouldn't he look suspicious? On the other hand, if he tries to kill Lan and fails, he would be exposed for sure, and probably Vandene as well. I am not saying that he is a Darkfriend, he could simply be being compelled by Vandene, or be an unwitting accomplice delivering tea.<br /><br /> Back to Vandene and her wealth of knowledge. I believe she is getting her information from the White Tower. What better way to keep abreast of events? It would be the best source of information about false Dragons and men channeling. There is also evidence of this. We have this from Vandene, when Elayne is looking for angreals, after they have left the Tarasin Palace:<br /><br /><i> &quot;Martine Janata also knew what she was doing, so I understand,&quot; she said casually. &quot;She was the last sister to really make a business of studying ter'angreal. She did it for over forty years, almost from the time she reached the shawl. She was careful, too, so I was told. Then one day, Martine's maid found her unconscious on the floor of her sitting room. Burned out.&quot; Even in a conversational tone, those words were a sharp slap. Vandene's voice did not alter a hair, though. &quot;Her Warder was dead from the shock. Not unusual in cases like that. When Martine came to, three days later, she couldn't recall what she had been working with. She couldn't remember the preceding week at all. That was more than twenty-five years ago, and no one since has had the nerve to touch any of the ter'angreal that were in her rooms. Her notes mentioned every last one, and everything she had discovered was innocuous, innocent, even frivolous, but ....&quot; Vandene shrugged. &quot;She found something she wasn't expecting.&quot;</i><br /><br /> Vandene and Adeleas retired about seventy years ago. All of that information she knows about Martine Janata, occurs after that. Pretty detailed information. That she was the last sister to make a business of studying ter'angreals. How long she was unconscious. That she couldn't remember anything from a week back. About her notes and the details in them. And, that no one has touched any of the ter'angreals in her room to this day. <br /><br /> That kind of detailed information makes it obvious that Vandene has some contact with the Tower. The fact that her and Adeleas show up in Salidar, before it is widely known about the White Tower being split, is evidence of this as well. Her knowledge of Taim, and false Dragons is further proof, and shows she is also up on current events.<br /><br /> Why is this important to us? It is the statement that Vandene makes about the Reds finding men that can channel:<br /><br /><i>&quot;When was the last time the Reds found two men channeling in less than a year? When did they last find one in five years? Not in my lifetime, and I am a good deal older than you.&quot;</i><br /><br /> According to Elaida, this cannot be true:<br /><br /><i>&quot;Only a fool could believe that more than one or two can channel. At most! In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years. And you know how the land has been scoured.&quot;</i><br /><br /><i>&quot;Twenty-four is a dangerous number to speak aloud,&quot; Alviarin said with an ominous quiet, &quot;as dangerous as two thousand. The Chronicles record only sixteen.&quot;</i> ACoS, Lightnings, HB, p.22-23.<br /><br /> Vandene may not have known there were twenty-four men captured in the last twenty years, since some of them are a closely held secret. But I would suggest that she knew about the sixteen that the Chronicles record. They are surely as news-worthy as an Aes Sedai that burned herself out. Keeping the world free of male channelers is the most important function the White Tower performs after all. And since not many are found, the ones that are, would certainly be noted.<br /><br /> Here is another statement Vandene makes to Moiraine:<br /><br /><i> &quot;If I thought it would do any good, I'd pull Adeleas's nose out of her book and set off for the White Tower.&quot;</i> TGH, Watchers, HB, p.277.<br /><br /> But, we have no indication that she goes there. Instead, she and Adeleas go to Salidar and then to Ebou Dar, ostensibly to look for runaways. <br /><br /> This part doesn't make sense. We know that most women who go to the Tower, are novices and accepted for about ten years or so. So just who would she or Adeleas be able to identify as a runaway? On top of that, she later tells Elayne that the Kin almost always find the runaways for the White Tower. So it appears that isn't what she was looking for. <br /> <br /> Elayne does see her and Adeleas in the Rahad several times though. On one occasion, she sees just Adeleas:<br /><br /><i>&quot;As far as Elayne could see, no one in the Rahad would speak two willing words to Aes Sedai. People melted away as soon as they realized what they were; she had seen two women try to stab Adeleas, no doubt to rob the fool walking the Rahad in a silk dress, and by the time the Brown sister lifted the pair on flows of Air and stuffed them through a window two floors up, there was not another person in sight.&quot;</i> LoC, Weaves of the Power, HB, p. 645.<br /><br /> I only threw this in for one reason. It is the first attempt to kill Adeleas. Elayne dismisses it as a robbery attempt. Vandene and Adeleas were certainly looking for something in the Rahad.  And it looks like someone wanted Adeleas out of the way. Maybe they were searching for the Bowl of the Winds, or perhaps it was the cache of angreals. We may not ever know.<br /><br /> That's it.<br /><br />A little More Light in the Night!</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> There's some interesting stuff in this comprehensive piece.  Here's one critique: why would Vandene deliberately lie about the number of channelers, if it is incorrect even according to the publicly known number?  I don't see the benefit in lying for the sake of small talk, even if she is making small talk in order to direct Moiraine's attention from her naming Mazrim Taim.  Especially why lie about something that Moiraine might catch?  It seems more likely to me that she or RJ just made a mistake.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-16 12:27:53
subject: Death and Decay
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<p>In Crossroads of Twilight, we see the dead walking around and decay everywhere. I think these two are related, both caused by the weakening of the Seals and the Dark One's increasing influence on the world. Along with the Darkhounds hunting, it's clear that the Last Battle is nearing.<br /><br />In chapter 10 of CoT (p. 269), Elayne's temporary maid Elsie claims she sees a ghost. At the time Elayne writes this off to the maid being a &quot;ninny.&quot; Later (chapter 26, see p. 584), it becomes clear that the dead are walking in the city of So Habor, as well. It's been suggested that this is Padan Fain's doing, but I think in connection with the occurrence in Andor, this has to be seen as part of a larger pattern.<br /><br />Similarly, weevils ruined about half the grain in So Habor, but this isn't a local phenomenon either. In chapter 17 (see p. 418 ) it becomes clear that the rebel Aes Sedai are having problems with decay as well. Even weaving a Keeping around their supplies doesn't stop the rotting or the weevil infestation. &quot;It was as though <i>saidar</i> itself was failing.&quot; Now, this could be a byproduct of Rand's use of saidar to cleanse saidin, but that doesn't seem likely.<br /><br />Along with the rats that seem to be multiplying everywhere (even in Tar Valon), I think that the ubiquitous decay we see, and the apparent weakening of the grave's power to retain the dead, are all side effects of the weakening of the Seals. Like the bubbles of evil earlier, and the unnatural weather, the Dark One's influence is growing. Now that he's so close to being free, death (and all that goes with it) is becoming more and more pervasive. Perhaps the newly-rediscovered ability to create <i>cuendillar</i> can be used to reinforce the Seals, until the time that Rand feels ready for the final confrontation.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> I happen to like this theory a lot better than just attributing So Habor's problems to ole Padan Fain.  The timetable for Padan Fain is all off.  Fain had been hanging out with Toram Riatin in the woods of Cairhien for most of the last few books until we see him in Far Madding at the end of WH.  The events in So Habor take place a mere ten days after Rand cleansed <i>saidin</i>.  How Fain could travel to So Habor a thousand miles to the northeast of Far Madding, infect the town, and have them all jumpy in less than ten days is beyond me.  Even the Ways would take a day or two, and there is no indication that there is a Waygate near So Habor.<br /><br />My only point of contention is that I'm not entirely sure the Seals could be reinforced.  The whole nature of <i>cuendillar</i> is that it is supposedly unbreakable.  I fear that its own decay, anathema to its very nature, is irreversable.  The weave the Rebel Aes Sedai are using turns steel into <i>cuendillar</i>, and there is no indication that the same weave would work on decaying <i>cuendillar</i>.  But I suppose that remains to be seen.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-17 17:10:50
subject: Gonna sell THIS cuendillar?
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<p>At the end of Crossroads of Twilight we see a mysterious mission undertaken by a substitute Two Rivers girl.  What was the point of such a mission?  I have an idea....<br /><br />First, let's drop by the novice tent outside Tar Valon, where our reporters are already on location.  Egwene Al'vere describes the transition to cuendillar as iron &quot;slowly turning white&quot; (p. 426, Secrets).  On the next page, it is confirmed that this is Egwene's latest discovery.  The page after that discusses the trade of cuendillar as a valuable commodity for funding their forced reunification of the Tower, though Egwene would like another way.<br /><br />&quot;Of course, I doubt she'll catch Leane [in cuendillar-making speed] unless she applies herself, much less yourself, Mother.  Young Bodewhin might catch her, in fact.&quot; (p. 433)<br /><br />From this, we can easily conclude that the faster cuendillar makers are Egwene with a strong lead, followed by Leane.  Kairen is a distant third, with Bode fourth, but gaining quickly.<br /><br />&quot;The line of white crept upward [on the cup] steadily.  When Leane did this weave, black iron turned to white cuendillar as if the iron were sinking quickly into milk.  For Egwene herself, the change was faster than the blink of an eye, black to white in a flash.  It would have to be Kairen and Leane, but even Leane was barely fast enough.&quot; (p. 434)<br /><br />Fast enough for what, we must wonder?  If it were merely a matter of making baubles for trade, Leane would seem to be excellent -- the Aes Sedai are trying to fund an army after all, not the United States social security plan.<br /><br />Following the murder of Kairen, Egwene's next thoughts are somewhat suspicious -- not of missing a valued Blue, but of usefulness:<br /><br />&quot;Now the next best after Leane was Bode Cauthon.  A novice.  She tried not to think of what else Bode was.  With the extra days of practice, Bode could do the work almost as well as Kairen could have.  Almost.  She did not mention that, though.&quot; (p. 653)<br /><br />Obviously, with Kairen removed, Egwene is examining the list of who can make cuendillar the fastest.  So what are they doing with this knowledge?  When Egwene goes out and takes over Bode's place, we find this narrative:<br /><br />&quot;As the tall wall of Northharbor loomed in front of the boat, the oarsmen backed water so the bow just missed kissing the wall beside the harbor entrance.  Egwene almost put out a hand to fend off from the pale stone before the boat could bump into the wall.  That thump would surely have been heard by the soldiers on guard.  The oars made only a small gurgling noise as they swept back, though, and the boat stopped where she could have touched the massive iron chain across the harbor, its huge links giving off their own faint gleam from the grease coating them.<br /><br />There was no need for touching, though.  No need for waiting, either.  Embracing saidar, she was barely aware of the thrill of life filling her before she had the weaves in place.  Earth, Fire, and Air surrounding the chain; Earth and Fire touching it.  The black iron flashed to white across the whole width of the harbor mouth.&quot; (p. 677)<br /><br />From the description of the weaves, from the image of iron turning white, we can surmise pretty readily that Egwene has turned the chain across the harbor to cuendillar.  But why?  Is she offering the knowledge of cuendillar-manufacturing to Elaida as a means of supporting herself in exchange for accepting the idea of retiring into exile?<br /><br />No, sadly not.  The offer would be entertaining to see. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> Instead, she is accomplishing via the One Power what Gareth Bryne could not manage without ships:  she has blocked the harbor, making their siege real.  That chain across the harbor used to control who got in and out.  Now, though, Heartstone isn't going anywhere.  One would think that a cuendillar chain could be moved just like an iron one, albeit perhaps a difference in weight....  But wait!  Think back to the novice tent once more:<br /><br />&quot;Yesterday, [Bode] and Althyn Conly tried two items at once, just to see what would happen, and the things fused together in a solid lump.&quot; (p. 433)<br /><br />A chain is not a single piece -- it's a series of links, which would probably coil and uncoil somewhere to let ships traverse.  The mechanism to move the chain to let welcome ships enter and leave is not likely a single piece either -- it has to move freely, like any mechanical device.  But now, that chain (and anything else iron that was part of it?) is in one, single, stiff, and permanently joined piece.  And good luck cutting it apart -- we remember what trying to destroy cuendillar does, don't we?<br /><br />Egwene has just successfully barricaded Northharbor in their own security device.  Unfortunately, she wound up on the wrong side of her own barricade.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> EXCELLENT!  Very good explanation for why the chain was power-ified.  We can only hope Leane was able to finish the other side, and the Tower Sisters will be in some trouble...<br /><br />Of course they DO have Egwene, or at least SOMEONE does...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-17 17:35:10
subject: Egwene's Situation
body:
<p>I have seen some people querying if Egwene really was betrayed or not.  To this, I say a definite &quot;YES!&quot;  There is no other possibility as to what occurred:<br /><br />1)  Firstly, we have to give her some credit.  Her first thought was that she had been betrayed - there is little reason to doubt her word.<br /><br />2) She felt someone &quot;had embraced the Source not far away, above her on the wall, then something struck the boat, struck her.&quot;  This is an aimed use of the One Power with the intention of stopping or even possibly hurting the person (more on that later).<br /><br />3) Secondly, her captors &quot;certainly got better than we bargained for.&quot;  They were expecting to pick up a channeler that night, also shown by the fact that they had that mint tasting forkroot herb with them that prevents Aes Sedai channeling.  However this also clearly shows they were not expecting the Amyrlin, only someone with the ability to change stuff to cuendillar and this means that it was Egwene's plan that was betrayed, not Egwene herself.<br /><br />Therefore having concluded that she was indeed betrayed, the obvious question is by who?<br /><br />1)  Halima/Arangar:  clearly, Halima could not have been the person who channeled as Egwene would not have sensed this man-woman-Forsaken channeling.  However it is possible that Halima formed a plan to betray Egwene to the White Tower.  I do not agree though - why would Halima want to loose her grasp on the young Amyrlin, especially when she has spent the last three books getting her evil massaging hands onto Egwene's headaches?  She has much more control of Egwene in her sights.<br /><br />2)  Sheriam: don't forget, the Keeper was under someone's control and assumedly is still being beaten by them.  Perhaps her mysterious superior wished the plan to fail and therefore asked Sheriam to make certain that it did not go to plan.  This is possible given her breakdown in front of the Hall.<br /><br />3)  Romanda/Lelaine: these Sitters in the Hall were in line for Amyrlin and it is possible that they are still bitter.  Also, given the links created with the White Tower, they could negotiate a trade off - giving them knowledge about cuendillar for something in return.<br /><br />The main problem with the last two is that the Aes Sedai channeling would have to believe that they were attacking because their lives were in danger or because they thought attacking the boat was not the same as using the One Power as a weapon.  However, I do not think either of these is a possibilty and therefore the channeling must have been done by someone who was not bound by the Oaths.  The most obvious option is the Black Ajah but there is another possibility ... a novice who has not yet taken the Oaths, a novice who has recently escaped, a novice called Nicola Treehill.<br /><br />Nicola's escape is certainly suspicious.  She assumedly feels she is not being given the oppurtunity to learn what she would like and probably assumes that the 'real' White Tower would nurture her gifts.  I personally believe that Nicola has escaped to the White Tower (the reason why she has not been found) and is betraying any of Egwene's plans or secret abilities.  She had a knack for ferreting out secrets and would gladly betray Egwene, whom she has reason to fear/dislike. <br /><br />One interesting possibility exists in Janya's words of how Nicola knew about the plans, when talking about Nicola's gift for Foretelling: &quot;an Amyrlin imprisonned ... that might be visions of Tarmon Gai'don or a bilious stomach.&quot;  Initially I assumed it was Nicloa exaggerating her own ability, but what if she had actually foretold an imprisonned Amyrlin?  Isn't Egwene imprisonned now?  Perhaps she is better at this Foretelling lark than we first gave her credit for!<br /><br />One final piece of evidence for Nicola's betrayal comes not from Crossroads of Twilight but an earlier book (can't remember which one), where Egwene has a dream about Nicola giving evidence in the White Tower against her.  Perhaps this nightmare really was a true dream and that Nicola is all prepared to disclose Egwene's secrets to the Hall in the White Tower.<br /><br />For me, Nicola Treehill is the most obvious choice of betrayer.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Excellent job.  You've considered all of the likely suspects, and made a nice comclusion.  Nicola definitely is suspicious, and it is very likely that she betrayed Egwene in some way.<br /><br />Anyone have any other ideas?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-17 17:43:01
subject: Sticking up for the Gholam
body:
<p>I read with interest the theory about the Gholam killing Tylin and peoples response to it. There is another possibility.<br /><br />The epilogue of Crossroads of Twilight has Rand recieving word of a meeting with the Seanchan, <br /><br />CoT hardback p680<br />&quot;Bashere shook his head. 'Apparantly a member of their royal family has arrived. Suroth wants you to meet someone called the Daughter of the Nine Moons.'&quot;<br /><br />Suroth has set up someone else as &quot;Tuon&quot;. Now, it can be argued this is for dealing with the Dragon Reborn only, but I think it goes deeper than that.<br /><br />A stumbling block in setting up a false Tuon would be Tylin, who would be able to detect a fake. Tylin is one of the few people to have spent a significant amount of time with Tuon unveiled. Suroth is the other.<br /><br />When was Tylin killed? This is an important point, as if she was killed by Suroth, or on Suroth's orders it would have to be after it was clear Tuon had been kidnapped, thus a fake Tuon could safely be created. And if Tylin was discovered early, an attempt would have been made to prevent Mat and company leaving, surely.<br /><br />CoT Hardback p145<br />&quot;Thom hesitated, stroking his moustache with a thumb. Finally he sighed. 'She was found in her bedchamber the morning after we left, Mat, still bound hand and foot. Her head...Her head had been torn off.'&quot;<br /><br />The morning after Mat left. She could have been killed that morning.<br /><br />So the possibility as regards the 'Suroth killed her theory' are:<br /><br />Suroth, and/or Semirhage, finding Tylin trussed up and Tuon and company gone, decide now would be a perfect time to replace Tuon with a figurehead, so they have Tylin killed. They send out no word of Tuon's kidnapping, but have people search for her incognito. Perhaps planning to dispose of her when it becomes clear where she is, far from the Seanchan army, seekers and anyone else, with an easily blameable culprit for her death in Mat.<br /><br />Perhaps there was always a plan to replace Tuon. She was a &quot;willful, headstrong, charge&quot;. She was manipulated into appearing on the shores veiled, so a decoy would not have to be identical. When Tylin was found and said what had happened, and it was clear Tuon had disappeared, the plan went ahead. <br /><br />Thoughts?</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> This is an intriguing alternative to the simple answer of the Gholam.  Semirhage is certainly capable of it, and Suroth probably as well.  This could use some more exploring...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-19 12:53:46
subject: Shaidar Haran: Forsaken Watchdog
body:
<p>The popular consensus is that Shaidar Haran is the physical embodiment, or avatar, of the Dark One in the world, a vessel for It's conciousness, steadily growing stronger as the seals weaken. I will refer to this as the Avatar theory. I propose an alternate explanation: Shaidar Haran is an enhanced Fade that acts as the eyes, ears, &amp; voice of the Dark One for the purpose of keeping the Forsaken in check while the Nae'blis, Moridin, furthers the Dark One's plans as It's Regent on Earth. I believe that Moridin is actually the avatar of the Dark One, though not in the same manner that has been suggested for Shaidar Haran. This will be elaborated upon later.<br /><br />I will summarize the relevant parts of every scene which includes Shaidar Haran, noting the following: evidence which supports or weakens each of the Avatar &amp; Watchdog theories, what powers SH has been shown to possess over &amp; above those of a normal Myrddraal, &amp; an analysis of the relationship between SH, Moridin, &amp; the DO.<br /><br /><u><b>LoC, Prologue: The First Message (first scene)</b></u><br /><br />This is the first scene that definitively introduces Shaidar Haran. It is distinguished from other Fades by being a head taller, as well as having an Old Tongue name, instead of one in the Trolloc language. It's interesting that it's only function here is as errand-boy, making sure that Demandred comes promptly to the DO. This is a rather inauspicious beginning for the Avatar theory. It fits well with the Watchdog theory though: keep those Chosen in line!<br /><br /><u><b>LoC, Prologue: The First Message (last scene)</b></u><br /><br />Osan'gar &amp; Aran'gar are both blocked from channelling. It's not stated that SH is the one causing it, but it shows such an ability mutiple times later on, so it's a good possibility that it is responsible.<br /><br />SH then makes the statement, <i>&quot;I obey the Great Lord. No other.&quot;</i><br /><br />SH is making a distinction between itself &amp; the DO. Why do this if it <i>is</i> the DO, asserting It's authority over the Chosen? A statement like &quot;I do not obey you&quot; or something similar would seem more appropriate. <br /><br />SH then goes on to make another distinction: <i>&quot;None but I and the Great Lord know you live.&quot;</i> (SH also uses poor grammar.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />) <br /><br /><u><b>LoC, CH 6: Threads Woven of Shadow</b></u><br /><br />Straight from the mouth(?) of the DO, It says to Semirhage: <i>WHEN YOU OBEY SHAIDAR HARAN, YOU OBEY ME. WHEN YOU DISOBEY SHAIDAR HARAN....</i><br /><br />Finally, some good support for the Avatar theory. Of course, it works just as well for the Watchdog theory. It's possible that the DO has enhanced SH so that It can instantaneously see &amp; hear what SH does, as well as communicating with it. This way, SH can effectively keep the Forsaken in line exactly as the DO wishes.<br /><br /><u><b>LoC, Epilogue: The Answer (last scene)</b></u><br />This is the &quot;Have I not done well?&quot; scene. SH is present, but doesn't interact. I include this only for the sake of completeness.<br /><br /><u><b>aCoS, CH 20: Patterns within Patterns</b></u><br /><br />SH isn't in this chapter, but Moridin makes his first definitive appearance here, eavesdropping on Sammael &amp; Graendal. This initially looks like a point against the Watchdog theory, but a couple of things need to be considered:<br /><br />-Moridin may have good reasons for personally keeping tabs at this time. Sammael later disobeys the DO by trying to kill Rand at Shadar Logoth. Moridin intervenes by helping Rand. It's a good possibility that Moridin had suspected Sammael's treachery for a while, and had a vested interest in personally overseeing Sammael's activities. That may even be how he learned that Sammael was going to lure Rand to SL.<br /><br />-SH may have been occupied with some other Forsaken. It took care of Moghedien's &quot;punishments&quot; during her time in the vacuole, before bringing her to Moridin. Moridin later tells her that she only spent a full day of actual time in the vacuole. This may have occured on the same day as Moridin's spying. Even if that wasn't the case, SH may have been busy visiting Demandred or Semirhage.<br /><br /><u><b>aCoS, CH 25: Mindtrap</b></u><br /><br />The DO speaks to Moghedien at Shayol Ghul: <i>MY CHOSEN ARE ALWAYS THE STRONGEST. MY HAND MOVES.</i> Then SH goes through the process of making a mindtrap. Nothing conclusive here, as the DO's words could be interpreted in different ways. It could be describing It's intentions metaphorically, then It's Avatar carries them out. Or it could be stating It's orders for SH, who then obeys.<br /><br />Moghedien is then placed in the vacuole, under less than pleasant conditions. RJ has stated that SH raped Moghedien at this time. Myrddraal as a whole have been described as enjoying the pleasures of feminine flesh, which lends some credence to SH being an enhanced Fade as per the Watchdog theory, but it's not a particularly strong point. The DO could have wanted Moghedien violated regardless of whether SH was it's vessel or it's watchdog, simply because It knew that such a punishment would be so horrific for her.<br /><br />Afterward, SH takes Moghedien to Moridin, &amp; it is here that the Avatar theory starts to weaken. Although it isn't stated yet, Moridin has been named Nae'blis, the Great Lord's Regent on Earth. I personally believe that Moridin/Ishamael/Elan Morin Tedronai has <i>always</i> been Nae'blis, in every Age. The Nae'blis, while having a distinct personality from the DO, is the DO's &quot;avatar&quot; in that he functions, by his own unique &amp; intuitive nature, as the purest physical expression of the DO's will, in the exact same manner that the Dragon is the &quot;avatar&quot; of the Creator. That's another theory altogether, though, &amp; it's not especially crucial to this one. What's important is the fact that Moridin has been overtly declared Nae'blis by the DO. <br /><br />Now if the Avatar theory is correct, then the DO naming anyone Nae'blis at this time seems somewhat pointless. I can see why It would promise the title of Nae'blis to It's Chosen (as It has done to several of them) to encourage their ambitions &amp; loyalty, but not to actually name one. If SH <i>is</i> the DO, then Moridin's position seems somewhat dubious. However, events here appear to indicate otherwise. SH takes care of making Moghedien's mindtrap. SH sees to her torments. SH brings her to Moridin (more errand-boy work). Then Moridin gets to keep the mindtrap(s) &amp; lord it over her that he's in charge. In other words, SH does all of the grunt work, &amp; Moridin gets to reap the benefits. <br /><br /><u><b>aCoS, CH 40: Spears</b></u><br /><br />SH watches as Sammael tricks the Shaido into dispersing throughout the Westlands. It reveals that it can smell the difference between <i>saidin</i> &amp; <i>saidar</i>, an ability that no other Myrddraal possesses. It then remarks on the fact that it is like no other Myrddraal. What's interesting here is that it compares itself to other Myrddraal at all. If the Avatar theory is correct, I doubt that SH would be thinking about such trivial Fade comparisons at this time. The DO has more important things to ponder, like Sammael's motivations. SH does think about that, but not before reflecting on Myrddraal.<br /><br />SH then destroys the spear it had grabbed by charring it with black flames, another newly-revealed power. Arterward it has some intriguing thoughts:<br /><br /><i>A sudden ache climbed the back of it's neck; a faint weakness washed along it's limbs. Too long away from Shayol Ghul. That tie had to be severed somehow.</i><br /><br />Intriguing, but not exceptionally decisive. Whether SH is an Avatar or a watchdog, the DO is still sealed up, so It was probably hindered during SH's creation in such a manner that SH couldn't remain long away from Shayol Ghul. This limitation will very likely diminish as the seals continue to weaken.<br /><br /><u><b>tPoD, CH 12 New Alliances</b></u><br /><br />Cyndane has this to say when she &amp; Moghedien initially arrive at Graendal's domain: <i>&quot;Moridin is Nae'blis. The Great Lord has decided it is time for you to serve the Nae'blis, too.&quot;</i><br /><br />Graendal eventually catches them in a web of Compulsion to discover Moghedien's true motivation, &amp; receives the same answer:<i>&quot;Please, you must serve the Nae'blis! That is what we came for. To bring you to Moridin's service!&quot;</i><br /><br />Shaidar Haran then shows up, cutting off Graendal from the Source &amp; making a dead black globe with silver light. SH then makes the following statements at different times.<br /><br /><i>&quot;The Great Lord thought you might not take their word, Graendal. The time when you could go your own way has passed.&quot;</i><br /><br /><i>&quot;I am Shaidar Haran. When I speak, you may consider that you here the voice of the Great Lord of the Dark.&quot;</i><br /> <br /><i>&quot;I am his hand in this world, Graendal. When you stand before me, you stand before him.&quot;</i><br /><br />These declarations could be used to support the Avatar theory. However, the following is mentioned:<br /><br /><i>As it issued it's commands- a visit to this Moridin was first, it seemed....</i><br /><br />That's the only command that is described, but it is revealing. SH is once again doing grunt work, bringing Graendal in line &amp; commanding her to visit the true person in charge, Moridin.<br /><br /><u><b>CoT, CH 21: A Mark</b></u><br /><br />SH makes an interesting remark to Mesaana when it arrives: <i>&quot;You were always...overly wasteful,&quot;</i><br /><br />Again, this initially seems to support the Avatar theory. The DO would be familiar with Mesaana's behaviors from the AoL. If SH was a Third Age creation, then it probably wouldn't make such an observation. However, the Watchdog theory includes the concept that the DO can communicate instantly with SH. This might explain SH's hesitation during the remark. It could be receiving infomation from the DO at the moment so as to make a more appropriate comment.<br /><br />Mesaana is clearly afraid of SH, but she tries to hide it: <i>&quot;Who are you to challenge one of the Chosen?&quot;</i> <br /><br />SH responds: <i>&quot;Do you think Hand of the Shadow is just a name?&quot;</i><br /><br />Mesaana's fear &amp; SH's response indicate that she is already familiar with this creature, yet she's giving it lip anyway. None of the other Chosen have challenged SH after it (or the DO, in Semirhage's case) has laid down the law about their standing in comparison to SH. Mesaana doesn't seem any more courageous than the other Chosen (&amp; considerably less so compared to some of them), so she doesn't believe that it is anything more than an uppity servant of the Great Lord. I would think that the DO's Avatar would've already impressed it's position a little more clearly.<br /><br />At this point SH transforms, growing until it nearly reaches the ceiling, &amp; speaking in a deep, booming voice: <i>&quot;You were summoned, and you did not come. My hand reaches far, Mesaana.&quot;</i><br /><br />Black fire flashes around Mesaana as her clothing disintegrates. Bands of black flame bind her. A black ball appears in her mouth.<br /><br />Now Alviarin believes that this Myrddraal is actually the Great Lord Itself. Many readers probably do too, if they hadn't already, especially since SH is displaying new powers right &amp; left. The seals on the Bore are weakening even more, the DO's influence in the world is getting stronger, so naturally It's Avatar is getting stronger as well.<br /><br />As for Alviarin's assumption, it's simply that- an assumption. After witnessing what she just has, it's a reasonable response, whether it's correct or not.<br /><br />As for SH continually revealing new powers, well, there's no indication that it didn't have all of those abilities from the beginning. It simply had no need to use them previously during the scenes in which it was present.<br /><br /><u><b>Conclusion</b></u><br /><br />While there is no conclusive evidence to eliminate or confirm either theory, I believe that the analysis above, especially concerning Moridin as Nae'blis, &amp; SH's relative position in comparison, suggests that Shaidar Haran's role is limited to overseeing the other Forsaken to allow Moridin the freedom to do what he needs to do: bringing triumph for the DO so that It can accomplish Its goal of breaking the Wheel of Time &amp; destroying all of existence.<br /><br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> I was about to argue with your speculation that the Dark One can see and hear what Shaidar Haran does, but then I recalled the rats and ravens and whatnot which apparently do the same thing.  So I suppose that's possible.<br /><br />Still, I'd love for Shaidar, not Moridin, to be the avatar of the Dark One.  Moridin had potential, but Shaidar Haran is ten times more interesting.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-22 15:08:56
subject: King Mat
body:
<p>Matrim Cauthon is a mix of various mythical figures like Loki, Odin and the Monkey King (as admitted by RJ). But what will happen to him when all is done?<br /><br />In Ch. 15 of the Eye of the World, Min saw a red eagle, an eye on a balance scale, a dagger with a ruby and a laughing face in Mat's aura. While we already know what the last three meant, the red eagle has not yet to come. Though some would say it signified the Band of the Red Hand, but the red eagle is clearly a symbol of Manetheren not of a Band. I may be going on a limb, but Mat will be king of Manetheren.<br /><br />Before you cry &quot;What about Perrin Aybara?&quot; hear me.<br /><br />Perrin may be Lord of the Two Rivers, but he is married to Faile who is next in line to the throne of Saldaea (the Broken Crown reference). I think it's more appropriate for Perrin to go to Saldaea and fulfill his Thor role as protector of humanity by being Marshal General of Saldaea. Saldaea, as a vital Borderland nation, shields the Westlands from the ravages of the Blight. Besides, it would be too unwieldy if Faile is queen of Saldaea and Perrin is king of Manetheren.<br /><br />The Indonesian version of the legend of the Monkey King had the supernatural mischievous monkey learning the costs of his hard-won wisdom. The Monkey King, in the course of his adventures, had to convince a princess of a powerful empire to love him so that he would be free from a cursed exile. The princess eventually learned to be his wife, thus incurring the wrath of that empire (sounds familiar, anyone?). After a difficult conflict, the ruler of the empire is resigned to the princess' marriage to the Monkey King. A river border is established between the empire and the Monkey King's kingdom.<br /><br />Should Mat follow the above example, his kingdom would be in Manetheren divided from the Seanchan Empire by the River Eldar (which flows between Ghealdan and Amadicia).<br /><br />In addition, if Odin is a basis for Mat, that gives us a clue to Mat's role after Tarmon Gai'don. In Norse mythology, Tyr (a basis for Rand) was for a time, leader of the Norse pantheon. Then he stepped down to let Odin take the leadership of the pantheon. Although, Logain is expected to take that position, Mat may share the responsibilities as king of a nation that may act as liaison between the Seanchan Empire and the rest of the Westlands through his wife Tuon.<br /><br />For those who feel that Mat will betray Rand at some point, the nature of Loki the Norse trickster god was helper AND foe to the gods (he opposed the gods in Ragnarok). <br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-01-24 12:09:13
subject: Rescue of Moiraine
body:
<p>I have been composing a theory for around two months now, which deals with two issues: 1) the realm of the &#8220;snakes and foxes&#8221; and 2) the rescue of Moiraine. Although the theory is split into two different sections, the first theory is needed for the second, so they are in fact &#8216;one&#8217;.<br /><br /><br /><b><u>THE REALM OF MAGNIFICATION</u></b><br /> <br />The first part of this theory centers on the belief that the realm of the &#8216;Snakes and Foxes&#8217; is actually a magnification of our own, obviously not a direct a copy of the landscape and people etc, but a realm where everything is just enlarged. <br /><br />To help prove this theory I will largely be looking at the language and the actions of &#8216;The Shadow Rising, Chapter 15, Into The Doorway &amp; Chapter 24, Rhuidean.&#8217;<br /><br /><b>The Shadow Rising, Chapter 15, Into The Doorway</b><br /><br />First of all we will start with the &#8216;obvious&#8217; actins and references during this scene&#8230;<br /><br /><i>Followed by the rest of Rand, with that fiery sword in his hands.<br />&#8220;The sword kept them back; they wouldn&#8217;t even look at it. Shied away. Hid their eyes. Did you get your answers?&#8221;</i><br /><br />Along with the quote at the beginning of the chapter&#8230;<br /><br /><i> A soft light came from glowing spheres atop coiled stands of some white metal. Not silver; the shine was too dull for that. And no hint of what made the glow; it did not look like flame</i><br /><br />We can reach the conclusion that the light they see emitting from the sword is far brighter than the light that we see. And indeed it seems that all of their senses are far greater than ours&#8230;<br /><br /><i>&#8220; Good. You have brought no lamps, no torches, as the agreement was, and is, and ever will be. You have no iron? No instruments of music?&#8221;</i><br /><br />The reference here being to music, which would probably affect their ears, and again on lights from which we know they shield their eyes from. <br /><br /><br />The second thing we know is that the affect of a ta&#8217;veren entering their realm is also increased.  <br /><br /><i>A ta&#8217;veren pulling at him so he could hardly move.<br /><br />&#8220; He is another,&#8221; the woman on the left whispered.&#8220; The strain. The strain.&#8221;<br />&#8220; The strain,&#8221; one of the women said hurriedly.&#8220; It is too great.&#8221;<br /><br />It was the room itself that pealed, the walls and floor quivering, nearly taking Mat and his attackers off their feet.</i><br /><br />I.e., They have a much bigger effect on the world. Nearly ripped it in two.<br /><br />The last of the actions is actually found in &#8216;TsR Chapter 28 To the Tower of Ghenjei&#8217; where Perrin meets Brigette. <br /><br /><i>Once entered, the Tower of Ghenjei is hard enough to leave in the world of men. Here it is all but impossible.</i><br /><br />Although this take place in T&#8217;A&#8217;R, the point is that it <i>is</i> harder to get out of the tower that it is to get in. Again the reference of something being greater there.<br /><br /><br />Now lets take a look at certain words in the language used,<br /><br /><b>The Shadow Rising, Chapter 15, Into The Doorway</b><br /><br /><i>The twisted stone doorframe stood in the center of a round hall with a ceiling so high it was lost in shadows, surrounded by strange spiraled yellow columns snaking up into the gloom, like huge vines twining&#8216; round poles that had been taken away.</i><br /><br />So high<br />Huge<br /><br /><i>The figure stepped out, tall, barefoot, arms and legs and body wound about in layers of yellow cloth</i><br /><br />Tall<br />Skin to big<br /><br /><i>What he saw through those round windows was even worse. Tall wispy trees with only a drooping umbrella of branches at the top, and others like huge fans of lacy leaves</i><br /><br />Tall<br />Huge<br /><br /><i>&#8220;Here,&#8221; the peculiar,yellow- wrapped fellow said, gesturing with one of those thin hands to a rounded doorway twice as large as any Mat had seen before.</i><br /><br />Twice as large<br /><br /><i>But writhe and curse as he would, those long fingers gripped like iron.</i><br /><br />Long<br /><br />As we can see from the above, everything the world has is bigger.<br /><br /><b>The Shadow Rising, Chapter 28, Rhuidean </b><br /><br /><i>The twisted doorway stood in the middle of a huge chamber that appeared to bestar- shaped</i><br /><br />Huge<br /><br /><i>The fellow was tall, taller than an Aiel</i><br /><br />Tall<br /><br /><i>It seemed to stretch ahead forever, fading into a murky distance, broken at intervals by more of the great five-sided doorways.</i><br /><br />Basically the corridor is big.<br /><br /><br />From those two short chapters and from the reason the RJ uses during those scenes, I think it is a pretty safe bet to say that everything is magnified or if bigger in the realm of the &#8216;Snakes and Foxes&#8217;. <br /><br />Now onto the second bit if the theory, and probably the bit that you all should find easier to comprehend and IMHO more interesting <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><b><u> TO FIND MOIRAINE</u></b><br /><br /><b>Introduction</b><br /><br />Let me start off my saying straightaway that this theory comes from the point of view that Moiraine is alive and at the moment trapped inside the realm of the &#8216;Snakes and Foxes&#8217;.<br />Before writing this theory I assumed that an entire party would attempt either a raid on The Tower Of Ghenjei, or to try to sneak in. It is also important to realise that all of Rand, Mat and Perrin will not be in this party as the effect on the realm and their strength of being ta&#8217;veren would probably rip the world apart.<br />It is likely though that at least one of them will be in the party, namely Mat, but other FAQ&#8217;s on this site are dedicated to that very subject so I&#8217;ll leave that area alone for now.<br /><br />Once inside the Tower though, how is the party going to locate Moiraine? As shown above, the world, like every world is massive and has seemingly strange physics. The rescue of Moiraine will probably be a race against time, as it is, and the complication of trying to locate Moiraine is one that is not needed. It is unlikely that a party of six, even with musical instruments and fire will be able to blackmail an entire world of people to hand her over. That two or three ta&#8217;veren go in, and threaten to rip the world apart if she is not handed over is also unlikely. <br /><br /><b>Women sensing Women</b><br /><br /><u>The Eye Of The World, Chapter 21, P320-321</u><br /><br />Moriane says to Nynaeve:<br /><br /><i>&quot;Do you think I can standface-to- face with a woman who can touch the True Source and channel the One Power, even if only now and then, without knowing what she is? Just as you sensed the potential in Egwene. How do you think I knew you were behind that tree? If I had not been distracted, I would have known the moment you came close. You certainly are not a Trolloc, for me to feel the evil of the Dark One. So what did I sense, Nynaeve al&#8217;Meara, Wisdom of Emond's Field and unknowing wielder of the One Power?&quot;</i> <br /><br /><b>The Theory</b><br /><br />This &#8216;bond/sense&#8217; between women is directly proportional to the potential of the women. We have often seen Sisters stand next-to people and know their potential, just like Moiraine was able to sense Nynaeve from the tree (and know her direction), and just like members of the Kin and other Sisters immediately knew the potential of Alivia and Taalan.  <br /><br />So, how does this all relate to the rescue of Moiraine, I hear the congregation roar? Simple. From what was just discussed above, we can safely assume that the bond/sensing between Moiraine and a member of the party who can channel will be magnified, and they will probably be able to locate her quite easily.<br /><br /><b>Nynaeve</b> <br /><br />Nynaeve in the party would be ironic, and she is clearly strong enough. <br /><br />Of course &#8211; nearly any Sister could probably be involved; I&#8217;m not going to bother listing all of them here.<br /><br /><b>End</b><br /><br />Unlike other theories on this site, this clearly attempts to show an actual <i>way</i> that Moiranie can be rescued. It is, of course, entirely possible that they could all knock on the door, ask for Moiraine, and find her &#8211; but this is not likely to happen in reality. <br /><br />Cheers for now.<br /><br />&#208;odge.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> As you say, it could be any channeler that does this.  But if Mat, Thom, and Olver are all to be involved to some extent or another, as many people seem to speculate, I would guess the channeler would be one of those with Mat's group, rather than Nynaeve or another of the Super Sedai.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-04 03:28:46
subject: What the Darkhounds Were After
body:
<p>In CoT we see Perrin coming across the trail of a pack of Darkhounds, and not just a normal sized pack, but a pack of 50. This begs the question, who could be so important as to warrant 50 darkhounds set on them? <br /><br />Well, the most likely target of any darkhound assault would be Rand, and then Perrin/Matt. After all they have all faced them before. However, they are clearly NOT after Perrin, and by default you can throw Masema in as well, as they circled his camp and then moved on. If they were hunting him they would have plunged straight in. Perrin's meager army would have no chance of stopping 50 darkhounds.<br /><br />I believe we can rule out Rand also. Perrin finds the trail before Rand starts using the Choeden Kal to cleanse <i>saidin</i>. As soon as Rand starts that process however, almost all the Forsaken still living are ordered to that spot to take him out. Thus the Dark one, and all the Forsaken, knew exactly where Rand was at that time. If he was the target of the pack, then they could have got the there with great ease.<br /><br />Matt I can't rule out, BUT, he is currently being hunted by a gholam already. Personally I think 50 darkhounds on top of the gholam would be a little bit of overkill.<br /><br />So who else does that leave? Well, the other powerful beings running around Randland are the Forsaken. Despite the fact that they are nominally on the same side, they have been known to stray from the proper path from time to time, and been subject to punishment accordingly. There are two key points that rule this out. 1) None of them have transgressed to a large enough degree to warrant a pack of 50 darkhounds on their trail, and more importantly, 2) Shaidar Haran's treatment of Mesaana clearly shows his capability to keep the Chosen in line if they happen to digress.<br /><br />Who else does that leave? We can rule out anyone in the North, i.e. Egwene and her group, and those sisters still in the white tower. Mesaana is cosseted away in there somewhere. She knows there's a siege going on and she knows who is among the army. Thus it's fair to assume this has been relayed to the dark one. There is no reason to send a pack of darkhounds to Ghealden/Murandy to hunt someone you know is in Tar Valon.<br /><br />The only other credible suspect in my book is Padan Fain. Remember that he has been infected by Mordeth and the spirit of Shadar Logoth (May it rest in peace). Now, while there is no disputing the fact that Shadar Logoth and Mordeth are evil, they are an evil opposed to the Dark one. The people of Aridhol decided to fight fire with fire, and were consumed by it, but they were still opposed to the shadow. Fain has shown a similar dislike for the Dark one. Further more he is a very powerful and cruel individual. In tGH we see that he has nailed a fade to the wall, and in tSR he is seen torturing a myddraal, with the Myrddraal plainly frightened of him. Sick and twisted though he is, he also happens to be extremely powerful, and getting more so all the time apparently.<br /><br />Now think, if Fain can do these sorts of things to Myrddraal, would he have a similar hold over darkhounds? He has been basically distilled by the dark one himself at Shayol Ghul. I think that is part of the reason he has such power over the Dark one's creatures. So to send a normal sized pack might be simply to send him a gift that can be turned to his own purposes. Let's just think about this for a second. 50 DARKHOUNDS. That is a lot of darkhounds. We've seen from encounters in earlier books that these things are very hard to kill. So for anyone else, any other target, 50 would be serious overkill. But, for Fain? Maybe it's not overkill at all.<br /><br />As of CoT we don't actually know where Fain is, but he was last seen in Far Madding. This is at least in the south. He would certainly have left there but where to be anyone&#8217;s guess, but there has been speculation that he is in So Harbor. Personally I don't think he would have had enough time for his evil ways to sink between his last sighting and the time Perrin goes to So Harbor. Further more, if you compare the way the Whitecloaks under Fain in tSR started to behave, it is somewhat different to the people of So Harbor. <br /><br />Lastly, if Fain is the Target of the darkhound pack, he can not possibly be in So Harbor. Besides the fact that Perrin would have picked up their sent, So Harbor is ringed by a stone wall. If the darkhounds had showed up, they would have left footprints, and these were not in evidence.<br /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I think this is a very viable option. Padan Fain is most likely just as much a threat as Rand is right now, especially in his pre-cleansing state.<br /><br />Nice work.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-04 10:54:36
subject: Setalle Anan, Tuon, and Mat the King
body:
<p>This theory builds on some previous theories. It was most recently influenced by Gaeren's theory about Mat becoming the King of Manetheren.<br /><br />First lets consider Setalle Anan, the one who is no longer. She is important enough to be foretold about, yet what has she really done? Not a whole lot. In CoT, we see her acting as Tuon's watcher and, despite her position, Tuon seems to have kinship to her. Why is this?<br /><br />One thing that has been brought up often by RJ is the fact that women who can channel always feel a kinship with one another. Elayne and Egwene felt it for Aviendha, even though they didn't know how to detect the ability; they just knew that they had something in common with her.<br /><br />We can pretty much conclude that Setalle was Aes Sedai at one point and was either burned out or stilled (I forget what the consensus was). So she is able to sense the One Power, but not touch it. And quite possibly she can sense the power in others who have the ability.<br /><br />The biggest bombshell in CoT (IMHO), was that Tuon used to train damane. We all know what this means, of course: that she can be taught to channel. Poor Mat; he just can't get away from those channeling women, and he's destined to marry this one. The implications of this for the Seanchan are staggering, naturally.<br /><br />So what is Setalle's purpose? To teach Tuon how to channel, of course. And as a result rock the Crystal Throne and the Empress (may she live forever) to the core. Who else could be as non-threatening to Tuon as someone who couldn't channel, but who knows how to do it? They have an understanding already, since they can sense the kinship, the ability to touch the One Power. Wouldn't it be easy for Setalle to just tell Tuon to relax and imagine herself as a flower opening in the sun...<br /><br />And what is Tuon's destiny? To become Aes Sedai (and possibly be the woman who helps Egwene to climb the cliff in her dream).<br /><br />Finally, to bring this back to Gaeren's very well-written theory suggesting that Mat, not Perrin, will be the King of Manetheren. Traditionally, the king of Manetheren was always married to an Aes Sedai. Sadly, I don't see Faile dying anytime soon (or being a darkfriend) or being able to channel. So unless she does die and Perrin marries Moiraine or something, Perrin will be the next in line to be the guardian of the Blight as king of Saldaea (please see Gaeren's theory for all the mythological references).<br /><br />Mat, however, is destined to marry Tuon. Tuon can learn to channel, and we know from Min's viewing that Mat has the red eagle of Manetheren hanging over him. RJ has also teased us with this a few times, specifically when Mat is separated from the Dagger of Shadar Logoth and he starts speaking the Old Tongue, flashing back to the destruction of Manetheren. Granted, he's not the king in his flashback, just a general. But still, Mat could probably have Manetheren rebuilt using his memories of the place. Whereas Perrin has showed no tendencies toward speaking the Old Tongue or any connection to Manetheren at all (besides carrying the banner).<br /><br />Will Mat rejoin the Band and become a general? He doesn't particularly want to (of course, does he ever?), and it would seem Perrin is more in need of the Band's services right now than Mat. Perhaps we will see them swap flags so Mat will take his rightful place as King of Manetheren. Besides, Mat would do it just to really tick off Elayne, wouldn't he? <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Lauriana Sedai says:</b> Whatever else one can say about your theory, I think that your concluding point is quite accurate: given the chance, Mat would probably re-build Manetheran just to pay Elayne back for acting like 'Mistress Snoot' all those times. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Seriously, though, I like this idea. If Setalle _could_ help Tuon learn to channel, that would solve a lot of problems. I don't think we've seen any stilled/burned out women try to teach other people, though, but it's a very interesting idea if she could actually make it work. <br /><br />And I agree completely with those of you who say that Perrin will take over as guardian of the Blight. I do believe that Faile's going to be Queen one day and Perrin will, of course, be right at her side. And if anyone's going to become King of Manetheran, Mat certainly has my vote. I've suspected as much since the early books included all of those references to the 'old blood' running strong in him, and having a wife with the ability to channel gives him a perfect parallel to the Kings of olden days. <br /><br />Very Nice. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-05 13:47:12
subject: Loial: Darkhound Target
body:
<p>People seem to feel that the 50 Darkhounds were sent after Rand or Fain, but I believe the Darkhounds were sent after Loial.   <br /><br />Masuri tells us that &quot;there is always a feel of urgency about Darkhounds' trails,&quot; but she says that the present pack has a sense of &quot;impatience.&quot; She feels that impatience is, in fact, an understament, like calling &quot;...a stabwound a pinprick&quot;.  Masuri also states that &quot;their hunt has been going on for some time, and their prey is eluding them somehow.&quot;  <br /><br />The conclusion that I draw from Masuri's statements is that the target not only is evading the Darkhounds, he/she is also somehow being masked or lost periodically by the pack.  When the prey's scent is masked, the Darkhounds lose the prey's location. The pack continues to travel in the direction from which they last 'sensed' the prey, but their urgency is replaced by extreme impatience.  <br /><br />I believe Loial meets all Masuri's criteria for the Darkhound's prey.  Loial and Karldin have been traveling from stedding to stedding for the last few months.  When Loial arrives or leaves a stedding by gateway, then the Darkhounds are on his trail. Unforunately for them, they lose his location each time that Loial enters a stedding.  The Darkhounds continue in the direction of Loial's trail but their sense of urgency is replaced by extreme impatience because Loial's 'scent' is masked by the stedding.<br /><br />The fact that the Darkhounds are traveling south can be also be attributed to Loial.  When Loial reports to Rand in CoT, he mentions four stedding by name, two of which are on the Shadow Coast.<br /><br />Why send Darkhounds after Loial?  His mission is to arrange for the Ogier to guard/lock the waygates.  We know from EotW that the Dark One has been using the waygates to transport troops.  Also, the Dark One may fear that Rand is trying to gain the Ogier as allies.  Either would be important enough to send Darkhounds after Loial.  <br />Finally, for any who believe 50 Darkhounds against Loial and Karldin is overkill, remember where they are going.  If the Darkhounds catch them at a stedding with Ogier reinforcements then the hounds may be in trouble. Maybe more Darkhounds should have been sent.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-06 13:03:17
subject: The True Power's price: you will lose your eyes
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<p>Several times the horrible price of using the True Power is mentioned by the Forsaken (e.g., WH-paperback, ch. 14, pg. 318/319).  Many people believe that you lose a piece of your humanity with each using of the True Power.<br /><br />I think that's right, and that one step of losing your humanity is the destruction of your eyes through the True Power.<br /><br />In fact the only external signs of the True Power in the case of Moridin are the <i>saa</i> which his eyes show more and more, after he had used the True Power regularly for some time. <br /><br />The only other person who used the True Power that often was Ishamael; he used the True Power much longer than Moridin (Ishamael's new body).  Though Ishamael had no <i>saa</i> but flaming eyes. I think either the flames are an advanced form of the <i>saa</i>, or Ishamael wants to hide something under the flames.<br /><br />In any case Ishamael&#8217;s corpse (after Rand kills him in TDR) has no eyes but &quot;where his eyes and his mouth should have been were only pits from which rose tendrils of black smoke&quot; (TDR, ch. 55, pg. 666).<br /><br />So Ishamael lost his eyes once. The most likely possibility is that he lost them because of the True Power and perhaps wanted to hide the &quot;pits&quot;.<br /><br />Another interesting connection between eyes and the True Power can be found at the Myrddraal.  The Fades have no eyes, they are even called &quot;Eyeless.&quot;  But &quot;they have certain powers stemming from the Dark One&quot; (glossary), e.g. &quot;the ability to vanish wherever there are shadows&quot; (glossary).<br /><br />We know that the True Power is a gift from the Dark One, so it is most likely that the Myrddraal can at least use the True Power unconscious. Shaidar Haran (maybe a &quot;Superfade&quot;<i></i>) even seems to be able to use the True Power whenever he wants to, e.g. the &quot;black flames&quot; in ACoS, ch. 40, pg. 710. <br /><br />What power other than the True Power could it be?   <br /><br />That idea would also fit with the fact that Aginor couldn't discover the secret of the Myrddraal's ability to move in the shadows although he destroyed hundreds of them to learn it.  This is no surprise if it's an effect of the True Power, since nobody can feel it! <br />I suppose that the Myrddraal have the inborn ability of using the True Power.<br /><br />Consequently it's obvious that the True Power destroys eyes; but note that, nevertheless, you are able to see!<br /><br />Finally I have an explanation why RJ connects the True Power with the lacking of eyes in his books.  It's a common saying that &quot;the eyes are the mirror of the soul.&quot;  So the lack of eyes symbolizes a missing or destroyed soul. <br /><br />Note that this soul/eyes metaphor is used at least on one other person too: Perrin's &quot;wolf-soul&quot; is reflected in his golden &quot;wolf-eyes.&quot;<br /><br />I'm pretty sure that the Myrrdraal have no soul, and a channeler who uses the True Power too often, will lose his eyes, humanity and finally his soul too.  So I predict that Moridin will lose his eyes in the next books as Ishamael did.<br /><br />Another explanation of the missing eyes would be that RJ was inspired from a tale of the Norse mythology. The God Odin sacrifices one of his eyes to gain power and wisdom.<br />The True Power channelers sacrifice eyes to gain the might of the True Power. <br /><br />It makes no difference if you prefer the first or the second explanation, but in my opinion the missing eyes are part of the horrible price of the True Power!<br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Well, I doubt Ishamael or the Fades we'ves seen were completely soulless; though from RJ's statements in our recent interview, it does seem that the souls of Trollocs and Fades are pitiable.  But Trollocs don't seem to use the True Power like Fades do.  Either way, it's an interesting connection, especially in conjunction with the changes in Perrin's eyes.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-07 15:05:23
subject: Sareitha's brooch
body:
<p>RJ gave us two times the direct and (I'm sure) honest hint to focus on Merillile, Careane and Sareitha as possible killers of Adeleas and Ispan.  The first time was in WH, ch.8, pg.191: &quot;They [Zarya and Kirstian] reasoned out that the killer must be Merillile, Sareitha or Careane.&quot;  The second time was in CoT, ch.11, pg.298: &quot;...there could be no doubt that the killer was Merillile Ceandevin, Careane Fransi or Sareitha Tomanes&quot;.<br /><br />Therefore I concentrated on these three suspects and found details that prove that Sareitha is a Black sister and most likely the killer.<br /><br />In WH, ch.11, pg.255, Sareitha had suddenly slipped out of the Caemlyn Palace, only &quot;leaving a note about an urgent errand in the city&quot;, although she had to teach the Sea Folk.<br /><br />I suppose Sareitha was going to meet another Black Aes Sedai.  Marillin Gemalphin, also a member of the Black Ajah, already knew that another Black sister lives in the Palace and promises Lady Shiane to make a contact to her (WH, ch.10, pg.247). <br /><br />This sister must be the killer! The fact that Sareitha vanishes shortly after Marillin's promise is the first hint that she is the person who Marillin wants to contact.<br /><br />But how could Marillin be certain that there is a Black Aes Sedai in the Palace? <br />From CoT, prologue, pg.44, we learn how the Black sisters &quot;organized themselves, three woman knew each other, three woman who formed one heart, with each woman knowing one more the other two did not&quot;.<br /><br />It would be highly coincidental for the Aes Sedai to be in Marillin's heart or be the third sister she knows.  I have a more plausible explanation how Marillin could learn about the Black sister in the Palace.<br /><br />In WH, ch.7, pg.169, Elayne is riding with Sareitha through the streets of Caemlyn. Sareitha wears &quot;a large silver-and-sapphires brooch holding her cloak&quot;.  Elayne is worried about unknown Aes Sedai in the city and then she notices &quot;a black-haired woman in a blue cloak with her hood thrown back. The woman barely glanced at her before turning into a candlemaker's shop&quot; (WH, ch.7, pg.171). <br /><br />After considering if the woman is an Aes Sedai or not, Elayne decides: &quot;not an Aes Sedai. Merely another woman who aged well, like Zaida&quot; (WH, ch.7, pg.171).<br /><br />It's a typical example of RJ's irony! Marillin is described as &quot;a skinny woman with lifeless pale brown hair, the Brown sister did not look an Aes Sedai&quot; and she wears &quot;fine blue wool&quot; (WH, ch.10, pg.245). The Black sister Marillin is very likely the same woman who Elayne doesn't take for an Aes Sedai.<br /><br />But as I said most of the Black Ajah don't know each other. How could Marillin recognize Sareitha? <br /><br />Now I come back to the conspicuous brooch that Sareitha wears.    <br />There is another Black sister in Caemlyn who wears a silver brooch: Eldrith Jhondar. <br />In WH, ch.10, pg.241, when Eldrtih returns from a visit of the Inner City, she is &quot;carefully unspinning the silver brooch at her neck...&quot; Then Eldrith says that &quot;there were fewer sisters&quot; in the city and &quot;no one recognized me&quot;. Finally &quot;she peered at her brooch as though wondering where it had come from&quot; and tucked it into her belt pouch.<br /><br />I believe that Eldrith was searching for other Black sisters and wanted to contact them. <br />Eldrith's silver brooch is like Sareitha's silver brooch a special signal of the Black Ajah to reveal each other in danger. With this special brooch a Black sister can prove her identity as a member of the Black Ajah and gets help.<br /><br />We know that each Ajah has own emergency signals, e.g. the Yellow Ajah &quot;a bunch of Yellow flowers&quot; (TFoH, ch.9, pg.186). <br /><br />Such an emergency signal makes even more sense for an Ajah in which most of the members don't know each other. In fact it would be a big surprise if the Black Ajah has no own emergency signals!  <br /><br />When Marillin saw Sareitha riding with Elayne through Caemyn wearing the large silver brooch, the secret signal of the Black Ajah, she knew that Sareitha must be a Black sister and lives in the Palace. Probably Sareitha wanted to contact other Black sisters too.<br />It's the only explaination why Marillin is convinced that she will make a contact with a sister in the Palace.<br /><br />Sareitha's absence in WH, ch.11, pg.255, shows that Marillin was successful.<br /><br />Consequently, Sareitha is a Black sister and because of that she must be the killer of Adeleas and Ispan.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> A small part of me still wonders why we hadn't seen other such brooches on Black Ajah before CoT.  Moreover, if brooches are an emergency signal for the Black Ajah, why isn't Verin being constantly pestered by strange Aes Sedai?  Verin's brooch may not look like Sareitha's, but it is the only other example of a brooch on an Aes Sedai I could find.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-10 01:49:24
subject: Egwene's Rescue
body:
<p>Egwene's capture at the end of Crossroads of Twilight puts her in the hands of Tower Aes Sedai and the Black Ajah. And it puts her in the perfect position for some of her Dreams to come to fulfillment. After all, who else is nearby? Gawyn Trakand. <br /><br />Gawyn is only mentioned in the prologue, but it is made clear that he's behind Egwene's army. Since he and the Younglings are sworn to the Tower, it would be easy for him to come across the captive Egwene. Then he would have to make the choice Egwene has dreamed about - a choice that her life is staked on. He'll have to choose between serving the Tower Aes Sedai or joining Egwene. <br /><br />&quot;Twice, right on top of each other, she dreamed of taking [Gawyn] by the shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will. Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time she was somehow stronger than he. The two blended together hazily&quot;<br /><br />-Lord Of Chaos, A Pile of Sand<br /><br />&quot;In another, [Gawyn] began swinging a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished, she was dead.&quot; <br /><br />-Lord Of Chaos, A Pile of Sand<br /><br />Choosing to help Egwene would mean going against everything he's stood for since Siuan Sanche was deposed, but not helping her will likely mean her death, since Elaida would probably have her stilled, and the Black Ajah wouldn't think twice about killing her.<br /><br />Plus, Gawyn isn't mentioned at all in Crossroads of Twilight after &quot;Glimmers,&quot; and when has such a subtle detail not had significance in the Wheel of Time? I think it's highly likely that book 11 will bring Gawyn and Egwene back together.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> I agree.  She's in a good situation for us to see the fufillment of that particular dream.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-10 01:57:23
subject: Merilille, Talaan, Metarra and the leaving
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<p>At the end of Crossroads of Twilight, Bashere tells rand that he is to meet a member of the seanchan nobility just recently arrived: the Daughter Of The Nine Moons.  Now, we know that Suroth and Anath cannot possibly have Tuon, since she is with Mat.  So who is he to meet?  <br /><br />If Suroth still has the male adam, then they would need a female channeler to wear it and chain the Dragon Reborn to them.  And more importantly, it would have to be someone Rand wouldn't suspect to be a danger to him.  He knows how the Seanchan treat women channelers, and wouldn't think they would have one rise to nobility.  <br /><br />I believe that is why Merilille has taken one of the windfinders with her.  With the impending meeting between the Dragon and Daughter Of The Nine Moons, Suroth needs someone to take Tuon's place.  Also, the fact that the Seanchan are keeping her kidnapping a secret so as not to create panic amongst their own people, they will eventually need to produce a Daughter Of The Nine Moons to appease the masses. So Suroth needs a Daughter Of The Nine Moons, and she needs one quick. <br /><br />Therefore, Anath or Suroth calls up one of their dark friend minions, in this case Merilille (who must be Black Ajah for this theory to work), who would have a dark-skinned female, strong in the power, at her disposal. Of course, this theory if correct, will affect the &quot;who killed Adeleas?&quot; question as well.<br /><br />Get petrie dish, stir in one dark-skinned windfinder, one male adam, and lots of one power.  Voila!  Instant Daughter Of The Nine Moons, ready to chain the Dragon Reborn to the Seanchan, and in this case, the dark side.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Well, that certainly is...different.<br /><br />Two other things to think about.<br /><br />One, Anath, assuming she is Semirhage, of which she is generally thought, can channel a LOT.  That would be a big surprise for Rand, running across a forsaken like that.  And a woman.<br /><br />Two, Suroth has Liandrin as one of her personal damane (remeber that?).  Rand knows Liandrin.  That should certainly prove interesting, if he sees her and recognizes her.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-17 11:58:56
subject: What Mo Don't Know
body:
<p>&quot;After the white-haired Aes Sedai left, Moiraine gathered her cloak and, muttering to herself, went into the garden. There was something in what Vandene had said that tugged at her mind, but she could not remember what it was. An answer, or a hint to an answer, for a question she had not asked--but she could not bring the question to mind, either.&quot;(TGH, ch22, p330)<br /><br />That thought from Moiraine in Tifan's Wells is particularly bothersome, and many meanings have been suggested.  However, there is an important clue that is often overlooked: the chapter icon is the dagger from Shadar Logoth. Mordeth&#8217;s pseudo-possession of Padan Fain seems to be the most reasonable theory to explain Moiraine&#8217;s thoughts.<br /><br />&quot;'Shadar Logoth!' Vandene snorted. 'In brief, the city was destroyed by its own hate, every living thing except Mordeth, the councilor who began it all, using the tactics of the Darkfriends against the Darkfriends, and he now lies trapped there waiting for a soul a steal.'&quot;(TGH, ch22, p32<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />This is Vandene&#8217;s response to a question about Shadar Logoth, but Moiraine never asks about Padan Fain, or even thinks about him through this entire scene.  However, Vandene does provide not new information to Moiraine.  She has already shown that she knows quite a bit about Shadar Logoth, and even Mordeth, to everyone she brings into the evil city.<br /><br />&#8220;Mordeth alone was not consumed by Mashadar, but he was snared by it, and he too, has waited within these walls through the long centuries.  Others have seen him.  Some he has influenced through gifts that twist the mind and taint the spirit, the taint waxing and waning until it rules&#8230;or kills.  If ever he convinces someone to accompany him to the walls, to the boundary of Mashadar&#8217;s power, he will be able to consume the soul of that person.  Mordeth will leave, wearing the body of the one he worse than killed, to wreak his evil on the world again.&#8221;(EotW, ch19, p290)<br /><br />On the other hand, after questioning Fain in Fal Dara Moiraine still thinks of him as a Darkfriend, and simply as Fain.  The peddler also does not seem to inform her that he met Mordeth while he was in Shadar Logoth.<br /><br />&quot;'It was evil against evil in the ruins of Shadar Logoth,' Moiraine continued, 'foul fighting vile. When Fain spoke of it, his teeth chattered and he whimpered. Many Trollocs were slain, consumed by Mashadar and other things, including the Trolloc that held Fain's leash. He fled the city as if it were the Pit of Doom, at Shayol Ghul.'&quot; (EotW, ch47,p716)<br /><br />Nor does she seem too concerned with his disappearance in the immediate aftermath of the Trolloc raid on Fal Dara.<br /><br />&quot;'So the Darkfriend is gone, too,' (Ingtar) growled. 'Well, it's the least of what has happened this night.' 'The least even here,' Moiraine said sharply.&quot;  (TGH, ch 6, p96)<br /><br /><br />Additionally, after healing Mat with Siuan and three other sisters, Moiraine does not appear to believe that Fain and the dagger are together.<br /><br />&quot;(Moiraine said,) 'Then we must find the dagger, Sister. Agelmar is sending men to hunt those who took the Horn, and slew his oathmen, the same who took the dagger. If one is found, the other will be'...(Siuan) rubbed her eyes tiredly. 'I think we must find this Padan Fain, too. Why is this Darkfriend important enough for them to risk what they did to rescue him...If Lurks think he is that important...then so must we.' 'He must be found,' Moiraine agreed, hoping that none of the urgency she felt showed, 'but it is unlikely he will be found with the Horn.&quot; (TGH, ch7, p103-04)<br /><br />Yet after sending Rand and his two friends chasing after both the Horn and the dagger without her she is frightened by the prospect that Rand could have confronted Fain, and is certain that Mordeth took over at least partial control of the erstwhile peddler.  The first scene that Moiraine is in after the Draghkar&#8217;s attack at Tifan&#8217;s Wells occurs as Rand is regaining consciousness after his battle with Ba&#8217;alzamon.<br /><br /> &quot;Padan Fain was the Dark One's creature to the depths of his soul, but I believe that in Shadar Logoth he fell afoul of Mordeth, who was as vile in fighting the Shadow as ever the Shadow itself was. Mordeth tried to consume Fain's soul, to have a human body again, but found a soul that had been touched directly by the Dark One, and what resulted.... What resulted was neither Padan Fain, nor Mordeth, but something far more evil, a blend of the two. Fain - let us call him that - is more dangerous than you can believe. You might not have survived such a meeting, and if you had, you might have been worse than turned to the Shadow.&quot; (TGH, ch49, p675)<br /><br />It seems obvious that recovering the dagger from Shadar Logoth would be Mordeth&#8217;s first priority, but Moiraine didn&#8217;t seemed to think that Padan Fain would be with the group carrying the Horn and the dagger.  She certainly would not have sent Rand anywhere near Fain if she was concerned that Rand could be killed or warped by the man.  The only scene containing Moiraine after everyone leaves Fal Dara is at Tifan&#8217;s Wells, and for some reason she decides to head for Falme shortly after that scene.  After she arrives at Falme, seemingly before any substantial rumors have leaked out, she is unequivocal about Mordeth merging with Fain somehow.  This seems to be the most logical conclusion about what Mo don&#8217;t know.<br /><br />Please note that all references are paperback.<br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Nice work!  Incidentally, this could also be key to understanding exactly why Moiraine said she never sent Verin.  Verin understood finding the dagger and finding Fain as being the same goal; Moraine did not.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-18 17:26:01
subject: Tuon Has the Spark
body:
<p>My theory is that not only can Tuon channel but that she has the spark inborn in her. This hinges on the fact that Tuon has never been tested to be a damane. After reviewing what sul'dam and damane are,Ihope to make connections to show that Tuon, the Daughter of the Nine Moons, has never been tested for damane and thus has the spark and will thus channel strongly eventually. <br /><br />Damane are women with the spark inborn. They are discovered when &quot;all across seanchan young women are tested each year until the age when the inborn ability to channel would have manifested itself... They are written out of family records and removed from the rolls of citizens&quot; (tSR, p. 990)  <br /><br />&quot;Sul'dam are women with the ability to control a woman who can channel by means of an a'dam. Young women in seanchan are testd for this ability at the same time as the testing for damane and up until the same age&quot;  tSR p.1002  In pages 624 to 626 of The Great Hunt we see our first proof that sul'dam are able to be controlled by the a'dam when Nynavae and Elayne collar Seta, a sul'Dam. On page 557 of Winter's Heart, we see Setalle Anan, a woman who can not channel, wear the bracelet and put the collar on Joline, an Aes Sedai. It does not work, proving that it takes a woman who can channel to wear the bracelet.  Thus, undeniably, we can say that the a'dam works on women who can channel and can only be used by women who can channel.  <br /><br />As per the definition of a damane, the collar starts working on them when their spark manifests itself in them. Thus, Sul'dam are women who can be taught to channel, and can thus use the bracelet but can pass the damane test. After years of using the a'dam, Sul'dam have learned to channel in a way, through their damane, and thus the a'dam works on them because they have learned to channel, ie their ability has manifested itself through their own efforts (learned). <br /><br />Now to Tuon. &quot;Many had thought it odd when Tuon tested for Sul'Dam on reaching adulthood, though none could gainsay her then. Except her mother, who had allowed it by remaining silent...&quot; (WH, p.325)  So, Tuon is a Sul'Dam. So, Tuon has the ability to learn to channel. But, from this quote, we can already see that Tuon has bypassed the tests for Sul'dam. From above, girls are tested for sul'dam potential right after they are tested for damane potential each year up until they are past the age when the spark would have manifested. Since Tuon tested on reaching adulthood, and it was out of the ordinary, then she never took the test previously. If she never was tested for sul'dam previously, then she wasn't tested for damane previously, as the two tests occur one after the other.    <br /><br />In this way the imperial family bypasses the testing in Seanchan. As the imperial family is infallible in Seanchan, no one questions why there is no testing (or doesn't even know they don't test). <br /><br />A possible criticism against her having the spark would be to say that it never manifested itself. But, the thing is, it has.  She is twenty now, and started training damane as soon as she was an adult, which is about eighteen let's say. This is right around the time the spark would have manifested itself in someone, normally.  By using the a'dam, she is satisfying that need for women with the spark inborn to channel someday, and thus her ability to channel hasn't manifested in other ways. <br /><br />Now, we know Tuon can learn to channel at the least, and has never been tested to see if she has the spark before. The rest of my reasoning comes from what we know of Robert Jordan and the way he writes. So much of everything is setup, and very little is written that does not have some significance somewhere down the road. Why have Tuon able to channel at all?  She's the leader of the Seanchan, and can bring them under Rand. She could learn the truth of sul'dam by seeing it with her own eyes. The plight of the sul'dam does not have to be her plight in order for her to turn the seanchan culture around. Throwing in that she can learn to channel would be of no import if she were never going to be strong enough to do more than light a candle in the dark one's face. We'll have to RAFO to see exactly what she does with her ability, but from what we know of RJ and from the evidence listed above, I think we can be certain that Tuon can not only learn to channel but has the spark inborn and will someday be a force to be reckoned with.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Yeah, well, RJ couldn't very well make her a normal everyday channeler, could he?  She'll probably turn out to be the &quot;one of the strongest channelers ever.&quot; *smirk*  Only thing is, if she does have the spark, wouldn't one of the former marath'damane have at least commented on her strength by now?  You know, Tuon doesn't seem to sniff often enough either.  There's something fishy about her...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-18 17:42:42
subject: The Wild Hunt For?
body:
<p>Masuri tells us in CoT, that ten or twelve Darkhounds is the usual limit for a pack, so sending fifty, I believe, is an important clue to who, or what, they were after. We already know how formidable they can be from Rand's encounter with them in Rhuidean. We learn that some of them at least, will die from nothing less than balefire:<br /><br />&quot;Slowly, the dead dogs and their heads were melting, settling into pools of liquid shadow that quivered slightly, as if alive. Their blood, fanned across the floor, trembled. Suddenly the smaller pools flowed across the floor in viscous streams to merge with the larger, which oozed away from the mosaic to mound higher and higher, until the three black dogs stood there once more, slavering and snarling as they gathered massive haunches under them.<br /><br /> He did not know why he felt surprise, dim outside the emptiness. Dogs, yes, but Shadowspawn. Whoever had sent them had not been as careless as he had thought. But they did not know him. <br /><br />Instead of reaching for the sword again, he channeled as he remembered doing once long ago. Howling, the huge dogs leaped, and a thick shaft of white light shot from his hands, like molten steel, like liquid fire.&quot; (TFoH, Gateways, HB, p.113-114). <br /><br />We also learn this from Moiraine: &quot;They are only another kind of Shadowspawn, something that should never have been made. But their bite is death as surely as a dagger in the heart, and I do not think I could have Healed such a wound before it killed you. Their blood, even their saliva is poison. A drop on the skin can kill, slowly, with great pain in the end.&quot; (TFoH, Gateways, HB, p.114&amp;115).<br /><br />Masuri also tells us this: &quot;There is always a feel of urgency about Darkhound's trails, but it varies according to a number of factors, not all of which I can be certain of. This one has an admixture of ... I suppose you could call it impatience. That isn't really strong enough, by far-as soon call a stabwound a pinprick-but it will do. I would say their hunt has been going on for some time, and their prey is eluding them somehow. No matter what the stories say-by the way, Lord Gallene, salt doesn't harm Darkhounds in the least.&quot; <br /><br />So she had not been entirely lost in thought after all. &quot;Despite the stories, they never hunt at random, though they will kill if the opportunity presents itself and doesn't interfere with the hunt. With Darkhounds, the hunt is paramount. Their quarry is always important to the Shadow, though at times we cannot see why. They have been known to bypass the great and mighty to slay a farmwife or a craftsman, or to enter a town or village and leave without killing, though clearly they came for some reason. My first thought for what brought them here had to be discarded, since they moved on.&quot; CoT, Blacksmith's Puzzle, HB, p.209.<br /><br />That passage tells us that she thought they might have been after Perrin, but she changes her mind since they left. It is interesting to note however, that the Darkhounds took the time to circle the camp containing one of our three ta'veren. I think this is another important clue. In fact, Perrin has a similar thought:<br /><br />&#8220;Once around the camp, and then on their way after whatever or whoever they were hunting.  Plainly, that was not him. Perhaps the pack had circled because they sensed him, sensed someone who was ta'veren, yet he doubted that Darkhounds would have hesitated one instant at coming into the camp, had they been after him.&quot; (CoT, The Scent of a Dream, HB, p.195). <br /><br /> The Shadow wants someone killed badly enough that they send fifty Darkhounds to do the job, implying that whoever it is, must be extremely dangerous. If whomever they want killed is this much of a threat, is there a reason one of the Forsaken doesn't go? Who would require this many Darkhounds to take out? Someone that the Forsaken themselves might hesitate to go after?<br /><br /> Perrin helps with his tidbit. Not whoever, but whatever:<br /><br /> The Gholam.<br /><br />Back in LoC, &#8220;To Understand a Message,&#8221; HB, p. 345-346, Graendal learns that Sammael has found a stasis box that was filled by a follower of the Great Lord: <br /><br />&quot;How sad for you.&quot; Again that faint smile. He had found more than playthings and pretties. &quot;On the other hand,&quot; he went on, &quot;think how awful it would have been to open a box and rouse a nest of cafar, say, or a jumara, or one of Aginor's other little creations. Did you know there are jumara loose in the Blight? Full-grown, though they'll never transform now. They call them worms.&quot; He laughed so hard at that, he shook.&quot;<br /><br />He practically taunts her in that passage. We see why in the next paragraph, where we learn that she had an almost fatal experience with a Gholam. At the end of that book, in the Epilogue, we see the Gholam kill Herid Fell. <br /><br /> Even though the two worked together, we have seen that Graendal didn't trust Sammael, and also kept an eye on his doings. It stands to reason she knew that Fel was killed and how. She figured out Sammael controlled a Gholam, and, fearing he might send it after her eventually, she sent the Darkhounds to kill it, rather than face it herself. Of course, Sammael then sends the Gholam to Ebou Dar, and the Darkhounds lose the trail. <br /><br /> In TPoD, we find out that the Gholam is constrained: &quot;The one who commanded it wanted the man who had wounded it dead perhaps as much as he did the women, but the women were an easier target. The women had been named, too, and for the time being, it was constrained.&quot; &quot;It must follow the women. It wanted to follow.&quot; &quot;Where they could run, it could follow.&quot; (TPoD, Unweaving, HB, p.84&amp;85).<br /><br /> It wants to follow the women, but now they have fled all the way to Caemlyn. In fact, the Gholam was present when Aviendha opened the gateway to Travel to the Kin's farm and sensed the opening miles north of the city. This would be the logical direction for it to take then. Mat, however, is still within its vicinity, someone else it has been compelled to kill. And he happens to be headed in the same direction the girls went.<br /><br />Noal, who is suspected to be one of Graendal's spies, and at the very least, is known to have been a dupe for Ishamael, has seen it attack Mat. So it is very likely she or Ishamael/Moridin, knows that Mat is now one of the Gholam's assigned targets. I believe this is why the Darkhounds are in this area, and taking the time to circle a ta'veren's camp. They just had the wrong one and moved on. As it is, Mat is not that far away from Perrin now, and the Gholam was last seen in the Tarasin Palace, where Mat was.  <br /><br /> We also learn this from Moridin: <br />&quot;Small, apparently unimportant matters can become very important,&quot; he murmured.  &quot;This rat. Whether Isam succeeds in finding and killing that other vermin, Fain.&quot; (WH, Wonderful News, HB, p.316). <br /><br /> Ishamael sent Slayer after Fain in TSR, who called him a renegade. Now, as Moridin in WH, he only refers to him as vermin, and considers him as unimportant for now, although that might change. There are though, some very important things about to happen:<br /><br /> &quot;The Seanchan are amenable,&quot; Bashere replied. &quot;Crazy as loons, but amenable. They require a meeting with you in person, though. The Marshal-General of Saldaea isn't the Dragon Reborn.&quot; (CoT, Epilogue, HB, p.680).<br /><br /> Rand is planning to meet and propose a truce with the Seanchan. Usually, these kind of meetings take place on neutral ground, somewhere between the two rivals holdings. This would probably place it somewhere in Murandy, the same direction Mat, and likely the Gholam are headed.<br /><br /> Does the Shadow consider Rand being alive as important? When Moridin encounters Rand in Shadar Logoth, he tells him this:<br /><br />&quot;You can find the way, it seems. If you're led by the hand. Try not to stumble. A great many plans will have to be relaid if you let yourself be killed now.&quot; (ACoS, A Crown of Swords, HB, p.658<i></i>).<br /><br /> It is obvious the Shadow did not want Rand to die. Despite the order Moridin gave in Winter's Heart, it is plain he wanted the Choedan Kal, and to stop the cleansing from taking place. It was not so much an order to kill him, as it was to do those two things. Since that didn't happen, I assume he will still want Rand to live and help break the Dark One free. <br /> <br /> So this brings up another possibility as well. Sammael died two days after we get the Gholam's POV. We know next to nothing about how it was constrained, but it is possible with Sammael's death, that it is no longer under this constraint. A Gholam running loose could certainly disrupt the Dark One's plans by killing someone important, like Rand.  So I think this would qualify it as a target important to the Shadow.<br /><br /> In conclusion, I believe Fifty Darkhounds hunting a Gholam is very plausible. With their poisonous blood and saliva, it is possible they could kill it. It would also make sense that one of the Forsaken would not want to face it. For proof of this I give you an excerpt from an interview:<br /> <br /> Question: &quot;Was Mat right about the &quot;snakelike&quot; guy being a Gholam, and if so, are we to assume that the bad guys are going to have as much trouble stopping one as the good guys?&quot;<br /><br /> Robert Jordan : &quot;I guess he was right. Because after all, his source for the information was Birgitte, who has some memories of the War of the Power...And yes, if a gholam decided to turn against one of the Forsaken...the Forsaken would certainly have as much difficulty in stopping the attack...as any other person would. They were, after all, created for the sole purpose...of assassinating Aes Sedai.&quot; (RJ AoL post Q&amp;A session, 6/27/96).<br /> <br /> Notice in this statement by Jordan, that he says &quot;if the Gholam decided to turn against one of the Forsaken&quot;. He makes it sound like the Gholam might be rather unreliable loyalty-wise to the Shadow's minions. In fact, if we go back to the Gholam's POV, we see that Jordan has already set up this very possibility:<br /> <br /> &quot;For its entire existence it had been compelled to obey one or another human, but its mind held the concept of not being constrained.&quot; (TPoD, Unweaving, HB, p.85).<br /> <br /> It would not be the first time we have seen Shadowspawn fight Shadowspawn. Semirhage sent Trollocs and Myrddraal to the Stone of Tear to fight the ones Sammael had sent in The Shadow Rising. So a precedent has already been set. If the Darkhounds manage to kill it and save Mat by coincidence, it would be icing on the cake. <br /><br />As a side note, I thought Graendal had the best knowledge about Sammael having the Gholam, and thus the best reason to kill it, especially considering her previous encounter. However, if any of the Forsaken knew he had it, they might have sent the Darkhounds after it as well. It is well documented how little they trusted each other, and each was vying for the title of Nae'blis. They could have feared Sammael sending it after any one of them to take out some of the competition. Shaidar Haran might be able to kill it or control it if he knew where it was, but I think the Forsaken are right to fear the Gholam.<br /><br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> From Masuri's comments, it seems like 50 Darkhounds hunting together is unprecendented.  Masuri doesn't know everything, true, but 50 Darkhounds still screams &quot;Moridin!&quot; to me, not just any ol' Forsaken, scared though Graendal might be.  And I'm not so sure Moridin would kill such a resource as the gholam so soon, not until its potential danger becomes something nearer to actual danger.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-21 11:37:41
subject: Rand and Moridin have merged
body:
<p>Much speculation has gone around about a viewing that Min had in Crown of Swords on page 526 that goes, <br /><br />&quot;I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't.&quot; <br /><br />Many have thought this man was Lews Therin, however Min's viewings are about the future and Rand and Lews Therin were already together to some extent.  This event took place in the last chapter of A Crown of Swords.  Mordin arrives out of nowhere to assist Rand.  Mashadar shows up, and this passage takes place on page 657: <br /><br />&quot;Without a thought, his free hand rose, and balefire shot upward, a bar of liquid white fire slicing across the wave sinking toward them.  Dimly he was aware of another bar of pale solid fire rising from the other man's <i>hand that was not clasping his</i>, a bar slashing the opposite way from his.  The two touched.<br /><br />&quot;Head ringing like a struck gong, Rand convulsed, saidin and the Void shattering.  Everything was doubled in his eyes, the balconies, the chunks of stone lying about the floor.  There seemed to be a pair of the other man overlapping one another, each clutching his head between two hands.&quot;<br /><br />Notice that Jordan made a point to mention that Moridin's hand was clasping Rand's when they connected each other's streams of balefire.  Rand and Moridin were physically touching each other in addition to the balefire touching.  <br /><br />Then on page 658 of A Crown of Swords, Rand thinks about this experience:<br /><br />&quot;Suddenly he realized that he had not felt saidin when the man made balefire, either.  Just thinking of that, of the two streams touching, made his vision double again.  Just for an instant, he could see the man's face again, <i>sharp where everything else blurred</i>.&quot;<br /><br />Compare this to this passage from The Path of Daggers on page 408:<br /><br />&quot;Since his reappearance inside Rand's head, Lews Therin seldom went silent unless forced. The man seemed madder than ever most of the time, and usually angrier as well. Stronger sometimes, too. That voice invaded Rand's dreams, and when he saw himself in a dream, it was not always himself at all that he saw. It was not always Lews Therin, either, the face he had come to recognize as Lews Therin's. Sometimes it was <i>blurred</i>, yet vaguely familiar, and Lews Therin seemed startled by it, too.&quot;<br /><br />Also, in CoT it is mentioned as a &quot;foggy face he could almost recognize&quot;.  So, we have a clear face after the balefire, and we have a blurry face in all the books since Crown of Swords.  From the PoD passage, this guy obviously can't be Lews Therin if Lews doesn't know him.  The destroyer comment from Lews in Winter's Heart was more of a general statement he usually makes when he's upset.  Also, it's easy for someone to forget the exact look of a face, as Rand only met Moridin for about 3 minutes or so.  <br /><br />So, during the balefire incident in Shadar Logoth, Rand and Moridin must have somehow <i>fused</i> or <i>connected</i> their Threads of the Pattern to each other.  Therefore, the third man is most probably Moridin (a definite destroyer!)</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> If you are right, and the sharpness of the face proves that it is Moridin, not Lews Therin, couldn't it be merely a sharp memory?  Granted, Moridin seems to have done <i>something</i> to Rand in Shadar Logoth, but is it necessarily a merging of some kind?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-24 18:03:58
subject: Halima and Egwene's Headaches
body:
<p>&quot;Waiting until the riders moved out of sight into the forest, she started back toward the camp, thinking idly of tonight's dreams.&quot; (tPoD, &quot;Unexpected Absences&quot;<i></i>)<br /><br />These are the thoughts of Aran'gar/Halima after she has disposed of Meri's (one of Egwene's spy/maids) body in the woods. It made me think what, or who's dreams she was refering to. Since aCoS we have seen Egwene suffering from headaches that can only be relieved by Halima's massages.<br /><br />&quot;I am very glad that Delana can spare Halima nights,&quot; Egwene said firmly. &quot;I need her. Unless you think Nisao's Healing might do better with my headaches a second time around.&quot; Halima's fingers seemed to draw the pain out through her scalp; without that, she would not be able to sleep at all. (tPoD ch.15, p.349)<br /><br />The long held suspicion that these were being caused by Halima was confirmed for me in CoT. When Egwene started getting a headache immediately after telling Halima she had no time for a chat. At first I believed these headaches we just a ploy to get Halima close to Egwene and in her confidence, in the hope that she may pick up some useful information. Upon rereading her thoughts regarding dreams however, I have a new theory.<br /><br />Egwene's headaches are a side effect of Halima breaking into her dreams.<br /><br />We have seen several of the Forsaken appearing in people&#8217;s dreams throughout the series, from Lanfear to Ishamael. We have also seen meetings of the Forsaken taking place in TAR through Perrin's wolf dreams and when Nynaeve is escorted to one by Birgitte, with Moghedian spying on the other Forsaken. Just after that meeting Moghedian gives us this:<br /><br />&quot;I think I will turn you into a horse. It is quite possible, here. A horse, a mouse, a frog....&quot; She paused, listening. &quot;...a cricket. And every time you come to Tel'aran'rhiod, you'll be a horse, until I change it. Or some other with the knowledge does so.&quot; She paused again, looking almost sympathetic. &quot;No, I'd not want to give you false hope. There are only nine of us now who know that binding, and you would not want any of the others to have you any more than myself.&quot; (tFoH ch.34,  p.553) <br /><br />She says there are only nine people that know how to bind someone like that in TAR. Given the casualties among the Forsaken at that time, this suggests that all of those still alive possess a reasonable amount of strength in the world of dreams, (tFoH ch.34,  p.553). So why does Halima need the headaches to look in on Egwene's dreams?<br /><br />Well, since being raised Amyrlin by the rebels, Egwene has been trying to live her life as an Aes Sedai. She is determined to behave as though she has already taken the three oaths, but more importantly, she is trying to be Aes Sedai in other ways than these also. Many times we see her attempting to adopt the Aes Sedai facade, and trying to act the way an Aes Sedai would. She is trying to be seen as someone worthy of the shawl, and also the stole, not only by outsiders but by the sisters themselves also. So it is not a big step to believe that she also wards her dreams, as Moiraine tells Perrin they do. . . . &#8220;Aes Sedai learn to shield their dreams&quot; (tDR, &#8220;The Hunt Begins&#8221;<i></i>)<br /><br />This warding does not make it impossible for someone to get at Egwene's dreams though it just makes it more difficult. In fact, through a conversation between Lanfear and Rand we have direct evidence that it is indeed possible.<br /><br />&quot;I can break through your warding . . . You would not like it&quot; (tFoH, &quot;Gateways&quot;<i></i>)<br /><br />I don't believe a warding on ones dreams is any different to other wardings in principle, so as is the case with a ward for eavesdropping, for example, a dream ward would be broken in a similar manner. During Moghedian's time spent wearing the adam in Salidar one of the things that Elayne and Nynaeve learnt from her was how to break through a warding. If Moghedian is powerful enough to do this, then Halima would also be, as Balthamel was definitely stronger than Moghedian.<br /><br />The last piece of evidence is the fact that Egwene is suffering from nightmares. In tDR as Moiraine and Perrin track Rand to Tear, they pass through Illian, which is held by Sammael. The whole population of Illian are suffering from nightmares every night and the mood of the people reflects this. This is one of the clues Moiraine uses to identify Lord Brend as Sammael. Again when they reach Tear, the people are suffering nightmares, and Moiraine explains this by stating that the High Lord Samon is in fact Bel'al, and that it seems he doesn't care to shield his dreams. So I think the fact that Egwene is suffering from nightmares is another hint that Halima is getting a look at what's happening within Egwene's warded dreams.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-25 18:41:13
subject: Parting the Veil and The Last Hunt
body:
<p>Parting the Veil and the Last Hunt<br /><br />I believe I have an explanation for the appearance of ghosts in Crossroads of Twilight. For my proof, I need to take you back to the earlier books for some quotes. The first couple come from Elyas telling Perrin about talking to wolves:<br /><br />&quot;This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai. Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as wolves. They don't like that either, Aes Sedai. Old things coming again. I'm not the only one. There are other things, other folk. Makes Aes Sedai nervous, makes them mutter about ancient barriers weakening. Things are breaking apart they say.&quot; (TEotW, &#8220;Wolfbrother,&#8221; HB, p. 290).<br /><br />Then, on the next page, Elyas says this:<br /><br />&quot;Dapple said that's what you'd decide. She said the girl's planted firmly in this world, while you&quot;- he nodded at Perrin- &quot;stand halfway between.&quot;<br /><br />After Perrin and Egwene are rescued from the Whitecloaks, Lan tells Perrin this:<br />&quot;In these times many things are dissolving, and breaking apart. Old barriers weaken, old walls crumble. The barriers between what is and what was, between what is and what will be.&quot; His voice turned grim. &quot;The walls of the Dark One's prison. This may be the end of an Age. We may see a new Age born before we die. Or perhaps it is the end of Ages, the end of time itself.&quot; (TEotW, &#8220;Rescue,&#8221; HB, p. 486-487).<br /><br />Later, Rand asks Moiraine about Min:<br />&quot;She saw a great deal,&quot; Moiraine said wryly. &quot;About all of you. I wish I could understand half of what she saw, but even she does not. Old barriers fail. But whether what Min does is old or new, she sees true.&quot; (TEotW, &#8220;What Follows in Shadow,&#8221; HB, p. 568<i></i>).<br /><br />In TGH, when Rand is talking to Hurin and learns about him being a sniffer, he recalls this from Moiraine:<br /><br />&quot;Old barriers weaken. There is something of dissolution and change about our time. Old things walk again, and new things are born. We may live to see the end of an Age.&quot; (TGH, &#8220;Leavetakings,&#8221; HB, p. 130).<br /><br />What I am trying to draw your attention to, are all the references to failing barriers. Weakening barriers, things dissolving, old walls crumbling, dissolution and change, old things walking again, and things breaking apart; they all tie in with this piece of Prophecy:<br /> <br /><i>&quot;With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms  rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.&quot;</i><br /><br /><i>-fragment from The Prophecies of the Dragon</i> (TFoH, HB, p. 9). <br /><br />This last quote gives us a true indication of what these dissolving barriers are: the barriers between worlds. &#8220;The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised.&#8221; Those familiar with fantasy work will undoubtedly recognize that &quot;the veil&quot; is the barrier between the world of the living, and the world of the dead. <br /> <br />I submit this is why we see the souls of the dead, (ghosts), walking in So Habor and elsewhere. It's clearly an indication of that failing barrier between worlds.<br /><br />I know there has been quite a bit of discussion about the destruction of Shadar Logoth being connected in some way, to the sudden appearance of ghosts. This might sound logical on the surface, but it is not, and I will explain why. <br /><br />There were four separate instances in Crossroads of Twilight, of people seeing ghosts. Two of them took place before the cleansing of saidin, one of them is after, and the timing of events in So Habor are in serious doubt. In case you have forgotten, let me quickly refresh your memory:<br /><br />1) In the prologue, Cera Doinal, a servant in the Sun Palace, sees the ghost of Lord Maringil.   -Around 4 days before the cleansing.<br /><br />2) In chapter 10, Elayne's maid Elsie, sees the ghost of Lady Nelein at the manor of House Matherin. -Roughly 1 hour before the cleansing begins.<br /><br />3) In chapter 29, Mat sees three ghosts while he is walking into the town of Jurador. -About 16 days after the cleansing. (I'll come back to this one later)<br /><br />4) In chapter 26, Kireyin and Seonid see a ghost in So Habor. This is 10 days after the cleansing. But, and this is a big but, this is not something new in this town. The people in So Habor have been seeing ghosts for some time. Exactly how long, might be difficult to say, but we do have some clues to help figure it out: <br /><br />4A) The people have stopped bathing. Long enough ago, in fact, to have a stench. This is very arbitrary, but I believe it would take some number of days to accomplish this to become so noticeable. My reasoning takes in the fact that it is winter, and these people aren't out laboring in the fields. In fact, they aren't doing much of anything to work up a sweat, just hiding inside the town walls. <br /><br />4B) Masema suggests that Perrin should go to So Habor for supplies. This is the only reliable clue we have. We know Masema has been seen meeting with the Seanchan. Berelain has also just given Perrin a letter from Suroth, a known Dark Friend, that was in Masema's camp desk. This probable association with one of the Shadow's minions, makes his suggestion to go to So Habor very suspicious. In my opinion, it is apparent he knows what is already happening there. And his suggestion to go to So Habor, comes hours before the cleansing begins on that day. <br /><br /> Exactly when the ghosts were first seen in So Habor, is therefore unknown, although the timing is blatantly suspect. But we do know for a fact, that two other sightings took place prior to the cleansing. That leaves us with only Mat's sighting definitely happening after the event at Shadar Logoth, and that doesn't take place until 16 days later. At any rate, it's enough evidence to safely conclude that the sudden appearance of ghosts, IS NOT a direct result of the destruction of Shadar Logoth.<br /><br />Now let's go back and take another look at what happened to Mat:<br /><br />3) Mat's experience was rather unique in the fact that he was with Tuon and Selucia, and neither of them appear to see the ghosts. I'm sure most of you picked that up right away, so I won't quote the passage. Is there an explanation for this? I believe there is, and it lies in the fact that Mat is a little special:<br /><br />Mat died and returned from the world of the dead. He has already passed through the veil and seen the other side, whether he remembers it or not. And by doing so, he now shares a common thread with those souls. <br /> <br />But how does that explain why the other people saw ghosts? The simplest explanation is this: The barrier is weakening at varying rates in different locations. In some places, the veil has raised sufficiently to have allowed the ghosts to come fully into this world. So Habor might then be described just as Shayol Ghul is, in relation to the Bore; a place where there is a &quot;thinness in the pattern&quot;. <br /><br />In Mat's case in Jurador, the barrier was only weakened enough to allow those souls to partially enter our world. He saw them due to his past experience, while Tuon and Selucia did not.<br /><br />As for Lord Maringil and Lady Nelein: The same explanation holds here as well. The barrier was weakened enough, at least temporarily, to allow them full entry into this world, and thus able to be seen. I would also point out that these two souls had strong ties to the places they appeared. Maringil was murdered at the Sun Palace during Colavere's attempted coup for the Sun Throne. Lady Nelein, we learn, resided in the manor of House Matherin for years, and seemed to run it with a stern demeanor. It's possible those strong associations helped enable them to fully enter the world of the living, while we don't see either place being overrun with ghosts as in So Habor.<br /> <br />I will go one step further: <br /><br />Throughout the series, Jordan has been showing us instances of these weakening barriers. Perrin and Elyas talking to wolves, Min's visions, and Hurin's sniffing ability. These are examples of what Lan called &quot;what is and what was&quot;. But we may also have some indications of the other part of Lan's quote, &quot;what is and what will be&quot;. <br /> For this, I refer you back to Elyas's comment of Perrin standing, &quot;halfway between worlds&quot;. This is interesting because we later learn that souls of wolves live on in Tel'aran'rhiod, which wolves call the Wolf Dream World.<br /><br />Here is what Hopper tells Perrin: <br /><br />&quot;All are here. All brothers and sisters that are, all that were, all that will be.&quot; (TDR, &#8220;Daughter of the Night,&#8221; HB, p. 343). <br /><br />Later, Hopper also tells Perrin this:<br /><br />&quot;Take care Young Bull. The day of the Last Hunt draws near. We will run together in the Last Hunt.&quot; (TSR, &#8220;To the Tower of Ghenjei,&#8221; HB, p. 325).<br /><br /> From Egwene we learn this:<br /><br />&#8220;And that dream of Perrin - with a beard! - leading a huge pack of wolves that stretched as far as the eye could see.&#8221; (TDR, &#8220;Questions,&#8221; HB, p. 234).<br /><br />And from Elyas, this:<br /><br />&#8220;They were wolves, once. The souls of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the Shadow. That was the core used to make Darkhounds, the Shadowbrothers. I think that's why the wolves have to be at the Last Battle. Or maybe Darkhounds were made because wolves will be there, to fight them.&#8221; (CoT, &#8220;Whirlpools of Color,&#8221; HB, p. 225).<br /><br />Finally, this POV is from Perrin:<br /><br />&#8220;The Last Hunt is coming. That was what the wolves called the Last Battle, Tarmon Gai'don. They knew they would be there, at the final confrontation between the Light and the Shadow, though why was something they could not explain. Some things were fated, as sure as the rise and fall of the sun and the moon, and it was fated that many wolves would die at the Last Hunt.&#8221; (CoT, &#8220;The Forging of a Hammer,&#8221; HB, p. 170).<br /><br />All of those quotes are foreshadowing for the Last Battle. When the time comes, this barrier to the Wolf Dream World will fail as well. The crumbling wall between &#8220;what is and what will be.&#8221; This is how Perrin will be able to lead that &#8220;huge pack of wolves that stretched as far as the eye could see.&#8221; It will take place in THIS world, not the World of Dreams.<br /><br />Here is one final quote from Hopper, when Perrin asks him if the things he sees in the Wolf Dream World are real. It's intentionally convoluted, but we have a better idea of what it means now:<br /><br />&#8220;What is real is not real. What is not real is real. Flesh is a dream, and dreams have flesh.&#8221; (TDR, &#8220;Shadowbrothers,&#8221; HB, p. 426).<br /><br /> In conclusion, I will leave you with this excerpt: <br /><br /><i>&#8220;And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides, when the right hand falters and the left hand strays, that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is, all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword, while the winds of the Shadow grow.&#8221;</i> <br /><br /><i>from The Prophecies of the Dragon, translation believed done by Jain Charin, known as Jain Farstrider, shortly before his disappearance.</i> (CoT, HB, p. 9).<br /><br />***<br /> <br />Not included in this theory, just a side note for discussion and possible future theory: These failing barriers I believe, also include LTT, Rand and the third voice in his head. In CoT, we already see LTT nodding in approval to a thought originating from the third voice. This shows an increasing awareness between all of them, as the walls between them weaken, IMO.<br /> <br /> I would like to thank Irena Sedai for her insight that provided a big part of the inspiration for this theory! She declined my offer to take credit as co-author.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> So why are they only now starting to appear, and in such force?  All these sightings start happening over a rather short period of time, however you look at it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-02-26 13:10:04
subject: The core of the Wild Hunt
body:
<p>My theory is that the Darkhound pack in CoT is Isam's pack, the core of the Wild Hunt, and they search Fain at the moment. <br /><br />First I want to point out why not longer only Isam hunts Fain, and why this task is important.<br /><br />We know from the &quot;Forsaken Tea Party&quot; in WH, ch. 13, pg.318, that Moridin is aware of Fain and gave Isam the task to find and kill him:&quot;Small, apparently unimportant matters can become very important...This rat. Whether Isam succeeds in finding and killing that other vermin, Fain. A word whispered in the wrong ear, or not spoken to the right. A butterfly stirs its wings on a banch, and on the other side of the world a mountain collapses.&#8221; <br /><br />The passage shows that Moridin is in fact concerned about Fain even if he's unimportant now; otherwise Moridin hadn't mentioned him. <br /><br />Fain could become important in the future and destroy Moridin's or the Dark One's plans if he will not be stopped. In other words Fain is this &quot;butterfly&quot; who could become responsible that &quot;a mountain collapses&quot;, the Shadow's plan; or as RJ once said, Fain is the &quot;Wildcard&quot;. <br /><br />After all Moridin knows how dangerous Fain is. He, as Ba'alzamon, broke and changed Fain at Shayol Ghul so he could carry out the hunt, and now Fain hates the Ba'alzamon as much as Rand (EotW, ch. 47, pg. 713-14).  <br /><br />Moridin wants to remove this threat finally, with no doubt. Therefore he sends Isam, the Shadow's best hitman, to kill Fain. <br /><br />But after Isam failed in TSR to kill Fain, it's clear that it's a difficult task. Now Isam uses his Darkhounds to make sure that he finds Fain. Especially &quot;Lord Luc's&quot; arrogant behaviour in TSR and Slayer's POV in WH, ch.22, show that Isam thinks he is the best and that killing is an art for him. Isam couldn't bear to lose his second chance to finish the task of killing Fain, he must use the support of his Darkhounds. Since Fain was at Shayol Ghul and was touched by Ba'alzamon, it's no surprise that the Darkhounds know the smell of Fain's track and are a big help for Isam to find him. <br /><br />As I said this Darkhound pack is Isam's pack, now I tell you why I'm certain about this. <br /><br />The first hints that the pack is special are in Masuri's analysis of the Darkhound track in CoT, ch.7, pg.208/209, &#8220;the sense of each pack is unique&#8221; and Masuri, a Brown Aes Sedai who is studied on this subject, had &#8220;never encountered this one before.&#8221; <br /><br />This means that the pack is either rather new or was hidden in the Blight waiting for a hunt. <br /><br />The other special thing about the pack is that &quot;there may have been as many as fifty in this pack. Ten or twelve is the usual limit&quot;. Furthermore, Elyas says that the pack is &quot;even bigger than anything I've ever seen or heard of&quot; (CoT, ch.8, pg. 224).  <br /><br />How could this pack become that huge? It is clear that this isn't natural. You have to connect several hints: <br /><br />In TDR, ch. 43, pg. 502, Lan says: &quot;There hasn't been a Darkhound seen south of the Mountain of Dhoom since the Trolloc Wars. This one was hunting for something. I'd say. And now that it has found it, it has gone to tell its master.&quot; <br /><br />We learn two things from this passage. <br /><br />First, usually Darkhounds live in the Blight. <br /><br />Second, they can have &quot;masters&quot; who use and control them. <br /><br />In this scene Sammael was the master of the Darkhound as Moiraine points out, &quot;any moment Lord Brend may learn that one of his Darkhounds is dead&quot;, and &quot;Sammael did not send the Gray Man [...]The Darkhound was his, however. I believe it followed my track. He would not have sent both.&quot; (TDR, ch. 44, pg. 509/510). <br /><br />There must be a close connection between Sammael and the Darkhound if Sammael could learn any moment that the Darkhound is dead. Because of this it seems likely that the Darkhounds are controlled with the One Power and that there is a bound to their master.  <br /><br />Everyone knows the famous lines from the dark prophecies in TGH, ch.7, pg. 105, &quot;Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.&quot; <br /><br />Note the clear connection between the Darkhounds, the Last Hunt and Isam. It indicates that Isam lives in the same area like the Darkhounds, the Mountains of Dhoom or the Blight, and that both are connected in a way. Therefore I believe Isam is the &quot;master&quot; of this special pack and controls it like Sammael controled his Darkhounds in TDR. Since Isam can't channel, the ability to contol the Darkhounds must be one of the &quot;many gifts&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.459) he got from the Dark One.   <br /><br />Furthermore I think that Isam is responsible for the large number of the pack. Elyas tells about the Darkhounds: &quot;They were wolves, once. The soul of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the Shadow&quot; (CoT, ch. 8, pg. 225). We know the wolves know Slayer very good since he is an expert in hunting wolves. <br /><br />I suppose Isam first catches the wolves and then they are twisted into Darkhounds. In this case the changing or twisting of wolves is likely another gift which was given to him. A different explaination would be that Isam catches wolves and his Darkhounds eat their souls and create new Darkhounds with this. <br /><br />Only this would explain the sentences in WH, ch. 22, pg. 460, &quot;But if there was time to pass, hunting was always a pleasure. He became Isam. Isam liked killing wolves even more than Luc did.&quot; <br /><br />The last sentence is quite strange. <br /><br />Of course the wolves and Slayer are enemies in the wolf dreams, but why does Isam like hunting more than Luc? <br /><br />The explaination is that Isam began to create his pack already before he merged with Luc. We know from WH, ch. 22, pg. 459, that both, Luc and Isam, have remained some parts of their personality. Especially Isam as the master of the pack likes the wolves hunting because his Darkhound pack can become larger with every caught wolf. <br />Plus, the wolves are the main enemies of the Darkhounds as Elyas says: &quot;Maybe the Darkhounds were made because wolves will be there [at Tamon Gai'don], to fight them&quot; (CoT, ch. 8, pg. 225). <br /><br />This sentence, connected with the lines of the dark prophecies reveal Isam's (not Luc's) relevance for the Shadow. It's no chance that Moridin calls Slayer still Isam, the Trollocs in TSR, ch. 56, pg. 949, cry: &quot;ISAM&quot; and even Fain thinks of the person as &quot;Isam&quot; (TSR, ch. 56, pg. 961).<br /><br />My explaination is that over the years Isam built the largest Darkhound pack in the Blight, the core of the Wild Hunt. Furthermore I believe the dark prophecies reveal that Isam is the prophecied leader of the Wild Hunt and will challenge Perrin and the wolves at Tarmon Gai'don. But at the moment his Darkhounds hunt Fain.     <br /><br />Finally I want prove that Isam and his pack are hunting Fain at the moment. As I said Isam get the task to hunt him from Moridin. But how and why did Isam and his pack come to the near of Perrin's camp? <br /><br />It's impossible that they came the long way from the Blight, just running; we would have heard rumours about the pack from the north! <br /><br />How could they appear suddenly in the middle of the Westlands? <br /><br />My answer is that Moridin helped Isam and opened a gateway in the Blight, then Isam and the pack went through it. This is the most likely explaination since Moridin wants Fain's death, and is Isam's master in this case, no other Forsaken could be involved. <br /><br />Moridin sent them through the gateway to the Whitecloak camp, very near to Perrin's camp. <br /><br />This explains the &quot;sudden stench&quot; which Valda smells in CoT, prologue, pg.27/28, &quot;a gaggering foulness like twenty midden heaps crawling with maggots&quot;, is the stench of the Blight where the Darkhounds live, and it obviously vanished when the gateway was closed. <br /><br />The description of the stench is very similiar to Rand's impressions of the Blight in EoTW, ch.48, pg.725: &quot;When he breathed through his nose, the sweet stench of decay, heavy and thick, sickened him; when he tried breathing through his mouth, he almost gagged. The air tasted like a mouthful of spoiled meat&quot;. The only difference is that the Rand's stench doesn't disappear suddenly like Valda's stenc. Valda smeels only a moment the stench of the Blight from the gateway. <br /><br />But why did the hunt start at the Whitecloak camp?<br /><br />Isam was hunting Fain in the Two Rivers in TSR. At this time Isam knew that Fain's location was the Whitecloak's army. <br /><br />Now Isam isn't certain where Fain could be, but he imgagines the possibility that Fain is still working with the Whitecloaks and stays perhaps with the rest of their army in the Whitecloak camp. <br />From this Isam and the Darkhounds began the hunt at the Whitecloak camp, but when they realized that Fain wasn't there, they went on to find him and came near Perrin's camp but left it soon.<br /><br />The connection between the Whitecloak's scene in the prologue and Perrin's plot with the Darkhounds would also explain why RJ put the Whitecloak's scene in the prologue of CoT. <br /><br />And everybody must admit that it would be quite ironical (and typical for RJ) that Fain who &quot;has been made the Dark One's hound&quot; (EotW, ch. 47, pg. 714) is now hunted by the Darkhounds. <br /><br />To summarize the theory, Isam is the leader of the Wild Hunt and is now supported by his Darkhound pack; Fain is at the moment their target.<br /> <br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> If Darkhounds must be controlled by use of the One Power, then it seems to me Moridin would be the more likely master of this pack, not Isam.  Isam, after all, cannot channel.  However, if we ignore that particular possibility and just say that the packs are closely bound to a human master, maybe a one-time use of the Power rather than an ongoing thing, then your theory makes a good point.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-03-06 13:52:44
subject: In Search of the Dark One
body:
<p><b>The Quotes</b><br /><br />1. TSR, ch 35, p. 569, pb.<br />&quot;Studying the columns herself, Egwene shrugged uncomfortably.  It did feel as if they were being watched.&quot;<br /><br />2. http://wotmania.net/faqtopic.asp?ID=58<br />You cannot enter the Blight from Tel'aran'rhiod because it is apart from normal universe and cannot be touched. <br /><br />3. LoC, prologue, p. 5, pb.<br />&quot;EVEN I CANNOT STEP OUTSIDE OF TIME. For an instant terrible anger filled that awful voice, and-could it be frustration?&quot;<br /><br />4. LoC, prologue, p. 4, pb.<br />&quot;Physically, this place [Shayol Ghul] was no closer to the Bore than any other in the world, but here there was a thinness in the Pattern that allowed it to be sensed.&quot;<br /><br />5. http://wotmania.com/shaitan.asp<br />A research team looking for an alternative to the One Power, headed by Mierin Eronaile (Lanfear) and Beidomon, found a thin place in the Pattern that promised a new source of power. By drilling through this thin spot, they created a hole, known as the Bore, through which Shai'tan could touch the world.<br /><br />6. http://wotmania.com/lanfear.asp<br />What they had actually discovered, though, was a section of the Pattern where the &quot;wall&quot; of the Dark One's prison had become dangerously thin. Although she believed that they were helping mankind with their work, Mierin led the group responsible for drilling the Bore, the hole in the Dark One's prison.<br /><br />7. BWB p. 200<br />&quot;Not found on any map, Tel'aran'rhiod is a place many visit, but in which none live. It is both of this world, and apart from it; it is the World of Dreams, also known as the Unseen World. The Pattern that is woven of men's lives is only one reality, part of a greater Pattern woven of each and every possible reality. But between the weave of this Great Pattern are spaces, and it is there that the ancients believed Tel'aran'rhiod exists.&quot;<br /><br />8. TDR, ch 21, p. 239-40, pb.<br />&quot;In all of these [Portal Stone] worlds, whatever their other variations, a few things are constant. One is that the Dark One is imprisoned in all of them...If he is freed from the prison the Creator made in one world, he is freed on all. So long as he is kept prisoner in one, he remains imprisoned on all...The point is that there is a third constant besides the Creator and the Dark One. There is a world that lies <i>within</i> each of these others, inside all of them at the same time. Or perhaps surrounding them. Writers in the Age of Legends called it <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>...Many people...sometimes glimpse <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> in their dreams, and even catch glimmers of these other worlds through it.&quot;<br /><br />9. TSR, ch 52, p. 862, pb.<br />&quot;Those of us who are bound to the Wheel are not dead as others are dead. Where better for us to wait until the Wheel weaves us out in new lives than in the World of Dreams?...I cannot touch the world of flesh unless the Horn calls me again. Or else the Wheel weaves me out. As for Falme, the Horn had called us; we were not there as you were, in the flesh. That is why the one Power could not touch us.&quot;<br /><br />10. http://wotmania.com/warofpower.asp<br />When the War of Power, or the War of the Shadow, began the Dark One's followers tried to release him from his prison. This was further evidence that Shai'tan would need help from this world to break free from his imprisonment.<br /><br />11. http://wotmania.com/shaitan.asp<br />Needing help from the inhabitants of the world, Shai'tan promised immortality and power beyond dreams for those who would help him break free of his prison completely...The attempt to free Shai'tan from his prison brought much change to the world. It began the War of the Shadow (War of Power)<br /><br /><b>Putting The Quotes Together</b><br /><br />First, let me explain why I chose the quotes I did and show which ones go together in my mind.<br /><br />Quotes #1 and #2 were among those that first led me to contemplate the relationship between Tel'aran'rhiod (T'A'R) and the Dark One (DO). Quote #1 isn't a strong piece of evidence, but it got me thinking. And Quote #2got me to think that there was some definite relationship, but it wasn't enough to make it clear to me. (There are other things that led me to relate the DO and T'A'R, but I won't go into them as they do not provide meaningful evidence).<br /><br />Quote #3 was a significant quote for me to realize that the DO wasn't just &quot;out there somewhere&quot; in RJ's mind, but that there was a relationship between the DO and the Wheel of Time. The DO isn't in some unexplainable cage out in the middle of nothingness apart from Time, but in some way in constrained by it. Thus, there should be an explainable relationship to find and understand.<br /><br />Quotes #4-6 show us something about the nature of the Bore. Not only can understanding the nature of the Bore be helpful in understanding how the DO is bound, but in fact any explanation should be able to account for the nature of the Bore.<br /><br />Quotes #7-9 give us a broad understanding of Tel'aran'rhiod. To determine a possible relationship between the DO and T'A'R, it is necessary to understand the nature of T'A'R as much as that of the Bore and prison.<br /><br />Quotes #10 and #11 help to explain some details that might otherwise be confusing. I will come back to these later.<br /><br /><b>Tel'aran'rhiod</b><br /><br />First, let us understand Tel'aran'rhiod and its place in creation.<br /><br />The Wheel of Time turns, blah blah blah, and it weaves the Great Pattern (#7). The Great Pattern is a weave of all the possible worlds, including the one commonly known as the &quot;real&quot; world. T'A'R exists in the spaces between the weaves.<br /><br />So, as we know it, creation includes the real world, all Portal Stone worlds, and T'A'R. There are also vacuoles, but we can ignore them on the basis of a quote from Moghedien: &quot;The ONLY reason anyone would want to enter a vacuole was that time flowed differently there...&quot; (ACoS, ch 25, p. 533, pb.  Emphasis mine.)<br /><br />Time (the Wheel) is also a part of creation, but it is more of a system that drives the parts, drives the Great Pattern (which in turn is related to T'A'R). I would call this system fate with a twist. While people say &quot;The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills&quot; (very fatalistic), the fact that it has a will of some kind shows it to be a system with some sort of programming. The Pattern of an Age can be seen as the programming for that given Age. (This is what makes the &quot;real&quot; world real. The &quot;real&quot; world is the only one that conforms to the will of the Wheel. As all the Portal Stone worlds are infinite variations on the Pattern, they must deviate at some point or another from the will of the Wheel.)<br /><br />Note, though, that T'A'R is not a part of the Pattern. Rather, it is in the spaces between the weaves of the Pattern. But the important thing is that it is a constant for all possible worlds (#8<i></i>). Listen again to Verin's explanation:<br /><br />&quot;There is a world that lies <i>within</i> each of these others, inside all of them at the same time. Or perhaps surrounding them. Writers in the Age of Legends called it <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>...Many people...sometimes glimpse <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> in their dreams, and even catch glimmers of these other worlds through it.&quot;<br /><br />So T'A'R, is connected in some way to every possible world. Even more significant, it can be a bridge between the different possible worlds. Verin says that people may even catch glimmers of these other worlds through T'A'R. Perhaps this is how the Portal Stones work.<br /><br /><b>The Prison</b><br /><br />Now let us consider &quot;where&quot; the DO's prison can be said to be located. From Quote #3, as I said above, the DO is constrained by Time in some way, constrained by the Wheel. We can say he is tied or bound to it in some way. But if this is the case, he need not be located in any &quot;where&quot; as far as creation is concerned. Instead, we need to look at the &quot;how&quot; of his tie to the Wheel, the &quot;how&quot; of his constraint. We are given little information as to this &quot;how&quot;, but Quote #9 provides a possible analogy. Birgitte says that the Heroes are bound to the Wheel. If the DO is bound in a similar way, then we need to look at T&#8217;A&#8217;R. The Heroes bide their time in T'A'R while waiting to be born again. If the Heroes have access to T'A'R from their bond to the Wheel, does the DO? I will come back to this question later.<br /><br />While we are given such scant information as to the &quot;how&quot; how of his bond, we can also find indirect discoveries from knowledge as to how it was overcome: namely, the Bore.<br /><br /><b>The Bore</b><br /><br />Look back at Quotes #4-6. First, the Bore has no sense of physical location &quot;in this world,&quot; that is, the &quot;real&quot; world. Second, there is a &#8220;thinness&#8221; in the Pattern. These two seem to go against each other: the thinness has a physical location, but the Bore does not. What this tells us is that this thinness in the Pattern is not the Bore. It may be how Mierin discovered the power of the DO, but it is not in and of itself the Bore. But there is a relationship between the Bore and the thinness, since Demandred says that the thinness allows the Bore to be sensed. This gives us a better understanding, but it does not answer the question as a whole.<br /><br />To get a more complete understanding, let's turn back to Verin's quote above (#8 ). She begins by talking about the DO and his prison. Note the details: he is imprisoned in all worlds; if he remains imprisoned in one, he remains imprisoned on all; and if he is freed in one, he is freed on all. This appears to be a paradox, but is solved by our understanding of T'A'R. Remember that T'A'R can act as a bridge between the different possible worlds. It is constant for all. And if the DO's freedom and imprisonment are also constant for all, it then follows that T'A'R is directly related to the DO's prison.<br /><br />(Note: The only constants for all worlds, according to Verin, are the Creator, the DO, and T'A'R. So unless the Creator uses himself as the DO's prison, we can confidently continue our discussion using this key as our basis. If the Creator did use himself, people would have had to drill the Bore through him, a reasonable impossibility, considering the Creator is well thought to be omnipotent. And the DO definitely isn't his own prison. *My head exploded just about here*<i></i>)<br /><br /><b>Putting Things Together: My Explanation</b><br /><br />Let me try and draw a picture of my idea.<br /><br />The Creator, wanting to keep the DO away from his creation, did two things. He put a barrier between the DO and the Great Pattern, and he bound the DO to the Wheel so that he could not get around the barrier and find some other way to interfere with creation. This would give the DO reason to be angry and frustrated (#3). This barrier is T'A'R. It can also be thought of as a wall between the DO and all the possible worlds, as it &quot;lies <i>within</i> each of these others, inside all of them at the same time. Or perhaps surrounding them&quot; (#8<i></i>).<br /><br />But the Pattern grew a thin spot (#5 and #6). Who knows why or how. As T'A'R is a reflection of the real world, the same thinness likely grew in T'A'R as well, though maybe not quite the same. Mierin discovered the DO by sensing him through this thin spot, and from there through T'A'R. The Bore was then drilled. In nature, it was not a hole made entirely in the Pattern, but rather in T'A'R. In order for the DO to touch the world, he had to breach through the &quot;wall&quot; on his prison, T'A'R. Once through that, he was able to touch all the possible worlds, including the real world where the story takes place.<br /><br />Thus, the Bore is not located anywhere in the world, but rather at Shayol Ghul in T'A'R. The thin spot in the Pattern remains and is the place from which the DO can spread his influence. This explains Quote #2. The Bore disrupted normal universe in T'A'R, which is why you can't go to the Blight in T'A'R. The Bore is bigger than the thin spot, since the DO's followers tried to open up the Bore completely, which began the War of Power (#10 and #11). It may even be thought that the Forsaken were all found at Shayol Ghul at the time of the Dragon's strike to seal the Bore. Perhaps the Forsaken were all gathered to try to open up the Bore completely.<br /><br /><b>Possible Implications</b><br /><br />It also might be that one aspect of the Bore was the creation of an intersection between the real world and T'A'R, helping the DO to get from T'A'R to the Pattern. (Read my theory <i>The Green Man's Place</i> to know more about intersections between the real world and T'A'R.) If this was the case, then the failing of the seals on the DO's prison could possibly account for the appearance of ghosts in Crossroads of Twilight. If such an intersection was made, then the Hundred Companions would have had to seal that as well. As the seal fail, the intersection becomes more and more free.<br /><br />Refer to Light in the Night's theory entitled <i>The Parting of the Veil and The Last Hunt</i>. In it, Light in the Night proposes that the barrier between the waking world and the world of the dead is breaking down, with the effect of ghosts appearing in various places. But if part of the Bore is an intersection as I mentioned, then perhaps the barrier that is failing is that between T'A'R and the real world. The effect of that would be a collapsing of sorts of all possible worlds. Remember that T'A'R can act as a bridge between all the possible worlds. If the barrier between T'A'R and the worlds failed, then perhaps the different worlds would collapse in on the spaces between each other, collapsing into the spaces where T'A'R exists.<br /><br />If this is the case, the ghosts seen may be people from other possible worlds briefly touching the real world. Those people may be dead in the real world, but as time is inconsistent between worlds, they may not be dead in the other worlds. The dead seen from portal Stone worlds might appear to be ghosts, and other people seen from Portal Stone worlds would not be as remarkable to people.<br /><br />This bit about failing barriers is all just speculation, though.<br /><br />What I'm trying to say with this theory is that the DO is bound to the Wheel, and he is stuck in tar, I mean, is bound behind T'A'R.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> I like the connection between Mierin and T'A'R and the Bore.  It could be that she was on the Bore project directly because of her knowledge about T'A'R, as I think you mentioned in a previous draft of this theory, if I'm remembering correctly.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-03-10 13:20:11
subject: Who is Slayer's Patron?
body:
<p>One frequently asked question about WoT is, who the mysterious patron is who ordered Slayer to kill Rand in WH, ch.22, pg.459/460. I will try to answer this question by analyzing this scene and the possible candidates.<br /><br /><b> I. Slayer's Description of the Patron </b><br /><br />Slayer is &quot;sure&quot; that &quot;his patron of the moment&quot; is a man and that &quot;the man had to be one of the Chosen&quot;. <br /><br />Although the patron is disguised &quot;so Luc's eyes slid away from him like water sliding down glass&quot; and &quot;he was a blur&quot;, plus &quot;his voice seemed to melt in Luc's ears&quot; so that &quot;he would not be able to recognize it if he heard it without the disguise&quot;, Slayer knows the patron must be a man (WH, ch.22, pg.460).  <br /><br />Why is Slayer certain like this? He knows the Chosen and that some of them are women. <br /><br />The explanations are that either Slayer can recognize the deep sound of a man's voice, or more likely he can at least see the stature of a man through the disguise. <br /><br />Slayer's description indicates that he is able to see a blurred man through the disguise, his vague size and stature, although he can't figure out who exactly this man is. <br /><br />Also Alviarin sees &quot;a tall woman of dark shadow and silver light&quot;, and her voice is &quot;crystal chimes&quot;, although Mesaana is disguised (ACoS, prologue, pg.32).<br /><br />Mesaana's disguise only hides her appearance not her gender. For this it's likely that the patron's disguise also hides who you are but not your gender. Because of that Slayer can be such certain that the patron is a man.<br /><br />Consequently it makes sense to agree with Slayer; the patron is a male Channeler.<br /><br /><b> II. The Female Chosen </b><br /><br />On the other hand there is the (little) possibility that Slayer is actual wrong, and the patron is a female or even is disguised as a man under the other disguise. <br /><br />For that reason we take a short look at the women:<br /><br /><b> Mesaana </b> is occupied in the White Tower since the siege of Tar Valon takes place at the moment. She even has no time for the Chosen meeting in WH, ch.13. <br /><br />The same is with <b> Semirhage </b> who is most likely Anath and stays with the Seanchan.   <br /><br /><b> Aran'gar </b> (who looks like a woman and has a female voice) is busied with Egwene as Halima at Tar Valon.<br /><br /><b> Graendal </b> schemes in Arad Doman.<br /><br />Besides they all have other important plans at the moment, none of these women has a special motive sending Slayer to kill Rand. <br /><br />The last both women <b> Cyndane and Moghedien </b> are under Moridin's control with the cour'souvra. It's very unlikely that they would risk to plan Rand's dead on their own.<br /><br />Altogether it's obvious that the patron isn't a woman.<br /><br /><b> III. The Male Channelers </b><br /><br />Slayer is not only sure that the patron is a man, but supposes he is one of the male Chosen. Of course Slayer could be wrong and the patron is just a male channeler. Who are possible candidates besides the living Chosen?<br /><br /><b> a) Sammael is toast </b><br /><br />It was a rather popular theory that Sammael is the patron because everybody thinks he's dead after ACoS and consequently he has a good reason to hide his appearance.<br />But after RJ said several times: &quot;Sammael is toast.&quot; (e.g. CNN chat transcribt, 12.12.2000), this theory is toast, too. Sammael can't be the patron!<br /><br /><b> b) Shaidar Haran, the Fade </b><br /><br />Shaidar Haran is not really a channeler though he can probably use the True Power, but there is at least one hint that he could be the patron. In TDR, prologue, pg.28, Carridin is visited by a Myddraal. Carridin watches him in a mirror, &quot;everything was sharp in the mirror on the wall in front of him. Everything but the Halfman. The Myrddraal was an indistinct blur&quot;. <br /><br />Note the similar description of the patron and the Myrddraal in the mirror as a &quot;blur&quot;. <br />Since T'A'R is something like a mirror of the real world, it could be that a Myrddraal looks like a blur in T'A'R. Then maybe the patron isn't disguised. If that's the case we know only one Myrddraal who schemes and could be the patron: Shaidar Haran.<br /><br />But too many points speak against it. First, the words of the patron. Shaidar Haran wouldn't be afraid that someone could learn about his plan to kill Rand because he is the Hand of Darkness and wouldn't hide his voice. Second, Shaidar Haran travels with the Shadows and doesn't create gateways, and we have no hint that Myrddraals can enter T'A'R. Third, Shaidar Haran has no real motive why he could want Slayer to kill Rand now.<br /><br />For this it's very unlikely that Shaidar Haran is Slayer's patron.  <br /><br /><b> c) Taim, the M'hael </b><br /><br />Taim seems to be a very likely candidate at the first view. He has a motive to kill Rand because he wants to command the power of the Black Tower alone. Furthermore he seems to hate Rand and probably wants to be the Dragon Reborn. And we know Taim sent the renegade Asha'man to kill Rand:&quot;'Kill him,' the M'hael had ordered before sending them to Cairhien...&quot;(WH, ch.22, pg.452). <br /><br />But actual that's a big point against Taim. <br />When Taim had sent Asha'man to kill Rand without a disguise, why would he need a disguise to give the same order to Slayer?<br /><br />Moreover, Kisman thinks,&quot;Far Madding was to be their last chance; he [Taim] had made that as plain as polished brass.&quot;(WH, ch.22, pg.452) <br /><br />It makes no sense to give Kisman and the others &quot;their last chance&quot; to kill Rand and on the other hand send Slayer after Rand, before it's certain that the Asha'man failed. Slayer's attempt to kill Rand was already in the night after Rand left the inn &quot;The Crown of Maredo&quot;. This happened only a few hours after Raefar and Kisman died and probably a long time before Torval and Gedwyn were killed by Fain.  At this point Taim couldn't simply know this; he had no need to send Slayer.<br /><br />Other points speak against Taim, too. Slayer considers, &quot;few save the Chosen knew how to reach him, and none of the men among those few could channel, or would have dared trying to command him.&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.460)<br /><br />Slayer says that the only Channelers who can reach him are the Chosen. Since Slayer should know this the best it's a point against Taim. Though it's most likely that Tam is a Darkfriend we don't have the definitive proof yet. Moreover nothing in the books so far indicates that Taim learned how to reach Slayer. Nothing indicates that Taim knows about T'A'R, and there is no hint that Taim is able to create a disguise like the Chosen. <br /><br />Finally some people believe that the gateway &quot;into a snowy forest glade&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.460) is a hint that the patron is Taim because the Black Tower is in the forest and in Andor is snow.<br /><br />That's right, but should we really believe that the very careful, disguised patron leaves T'A'R directly to his home, so that Slayer can see where he goes? It would be rather stupid and likely destroy his try to remain unknown. Besides, in Winter Heart snow covers almost every country in the Westlands. Therefore the &quot;snowy forest glade&quot; is no hint for Taim, and doesn't help to uncover the patron at all.      <br /><br />As pointed out very much speaks against Taim. For this it's not impossible that he is the patron but it's improbable.<br /><br /><b> IV. More about the Patron's Personality </b><br /><br />Now after we ruled out quite a lot candidates and know that the patron must be a male Chosen, I want to return to the Slayer's scene with his patron and try to find a more likely candidate than Taim.<br /><br />Slayer asks the patron if he should try again to kill Rand, he says: &quot;Perhaps. When I tell you. Not before. Remember, not a word of this to anyone.&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.460)  <br /><br />This and the disguise show that the patron is a very cautious person. Even Slayer is astonished at his caution because &quot;none of the Chosen Luc had met had ever taken such precautions as this.&quot;(WH, ch.22, pg.460)  <br /><br />The patron is very afraid that someone could learn about his order to kill Rand. <br /><br />Why? Who could hear about the plan from Slayer, and frighten a powerful Channeler?<br /><br />The answer is in WH, ch.13, pg.318, Moridin tells the present Chosen: &quot;Whether Isam succeeds in finding and killing that other vermin, Fain...&quot; We and (more importantly) the present Chosen learn that Moridin is working with Slayer.   <br /><br />It explains why the patron is disguised. He is afraid that the Nae'blis will hear from Slayer about his plan to kill Rand, doesn't agree with it, stops the plan and probably punishes Slayer's patron. <br /><br />We know from ACoS, ch.41, pg.732, that Moridin (who obviously is the wanderer) doesn't want Rand's death because &quot;a great many plans will have to be relaid&quot; if Rand dies (ACoS, ch.41, pg.734). <br /><br />Moridin has no interest in Rand's death because &quot;al'Thor moved already to his wishes&quot; and &quot;it was very hard to lose a game when you play both sides of the board.&quot; (PoD, prologue, pg.35)<br /><br />In WH, ch.22, pg.452, we learn from Kisman that &quot;Moridin had said: 'Kill him [Rand] if you must, but above all, bring everything in his possession to me'.&quot;<br /><br />Even in the Chosen meeting Moridin still commands that Rand should only be killed &quot;if necessary&quot; when he touches the Choedan Kal (WH, ch.13, pg.320).    <br /><br />All these quotes show that Rand's death is the last way for Moridin and only acceptable if he gets his possessions.  <br /><br />Therefore the patron must fear that Moridin could become very angry about his solo attempt. <br /><br /><b> V. Moridin isn't the Patron </b><br /><br />Just to say it straight out, of course it's logical that Moridin can't be the patron. As the Nae'blis, Moridin doesn't need to fear anybody and a disguise would make no sense since he directly admits his connection to Slayer in front of the other Chosen.<br /><br /><b> VI. The last Candidates </b><br /><br />As pointed out above the patron must be a male Chosen at the meeting who is afraid of Moridin. The Chosen have knowledge about T'A'R, are able to create a One Power disguise and know how to reach Slayer.<br /><br />The question is, who of the present male Chosen has such a urgent motive to kill Rand (besides that Rand is a rival) that even his fear of Moridin becomes less important?<br /><br />There are only two male Chosen besides Moridin and Aran'gar (who we already ruled out) at the meeting, the last possible candidates: Demandred and Osan'gar.   <br /><br /><b> a) Demandred, the Soldier </b><br /><br />We know that especially Demandred hates Rand and wants his death. But notice WH, ch.35, pg.665, Demandred considers: &quot;He had reasoned out what al'Thor's plan had to be as soon as he realized where the access key was&quot;, and sooner or later the old man [Damer Flinn] had to tire, and then he could take care of killing al'Thor. If one of the others did not get there first. He hoped fervently they did not.&quot; <br /><br />This passage makes clear that Demandred wants to kill Rand, and hopes that no one else will be successful; no surprise if you consider his hate and the power he could get if he take Callandor or the access key. <br /><br />Therefore it's unlikely that Demandred ordered someone else to kill Rand. Demandred reasonded out Rand's plan and he wants to kill Rand while he uses the Choedan Kal so that he can take the access key. <br /><br />On the other hand, Demandred already sent someone to kill Rand, the renegade Asha'man in PoD, as we read in Kisman's POV in WH, ch.22, pg.452: &quot; 'Kill him,' Demandred had commanded later, but he had added it would be better they died than let themselves be discovered again. By anyone...&quot;.<br /><br />The only explaination is that Demandred didn't know Rand's plan at this point but reasoned it out later. Otherwise he would be a fool not to give the Asha'man a command to bring Rand's possession like Moridin.<br /><br />At the Chosen meeting Demandred says: &quot;So it seems he must be killed after all&quot;, and can't hide his satisfaction. A bit later he thinks, &quot;so they would take al'Thor -while he was trying to use the Choedan Kal...&quot; (WH, ch.13, pg.321) <br /><br />This finally proves that at this point Demandred wants to kill Rand not until he uses the Choedan Kal. He can't be Slayer's patron who gives Slayer the order and wants Rand's death after the Chosen meeting but already before Rand uses the Choedan Kal.  <br /><br />Furthermore the fear and caution of the patron doesn't fit Demandred. Demandred isn't very afraid of Moridin, he even plans against him, &quot;the man was Nae'blis for now, but perhaps matters could be arranged so he did not get another body the next time he died. Perhaps it could be arranged soon.&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.321)<br /><br />Moreover, Demandred just warns his Asha'man not let themselves be discovered again. <br />Demandred isn't cautious and doesn't need a disguise like the patron. Why should he need to disguise when he gives Slayer the same order he gave his Asha'man without any disguise? It makes no sense like the same with Taim. <br /><br />Finally Demandred seems just too proud and arrogant to disguise. He isn't afraid of a One Power battle against Rand, because &quot;he had been a soldier&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.665) and &quot;was a general, a great general&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.667).<br /><br />For this it's very unlikely that Demandred is Slayer's patron.<br /><br /><b> b) Osan'gar, the Genius </b><br /><br />Now take a look at the other male Chosen at the meeting, Osan'gar. <br /><br />In WH, ch.13, pg.319, we see his reactions to Moridin and Rand's plan, &quot;Moridin laid a hand on Osan'gar's shoulder, his smile made more ominous by the saa. The shorter man swallowed, and gave a wavering smile in return. 'It is well you've never considered how to remove the Great Lord's shadow,' Moridin said quietly.[...] Osan'gar's smile grew even more sickly&quot;, and after Cydane told the present Chosen about the Choedan Kal, Osan'gar &quot;was tugging at his collar as if it were too tight, and his eyes seemed ready to fall out of his face&quot;. <br /><br />When Moridin gives the command to take Rand, Osan'gar replies:&quot;As the Nae'blis commands&quot; in a &quot;desperate&quot; tone (WH, ch.13, pg.321). <br /><br />All this shows that Osan'gar was very surprised about Rand's plan and horrified that it will now their task to stop Rand.  <br /><br />In WH, ch.35, pg.668, Osan'gar even admits, &quot;he had expected others of the Chosen to be here ahead of him, had hoped they might have finished the task before he arrived, but plainly they had not&quot;, and, &quot;but the fact remained that Moridin terrified him. The man had always terrified him, from the very beginning.&quot; <br /><br />Note the difference between Demandred's and Osan'gar's thoughts at the cleansing. <br />Demandred is brave, self-confident and proud since &quot;he had been a soldier&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.665). Osan'gar is fearful, unsure, and only wants that the task would be finished since &quot;he had never been a soldier, not really. His talents, his genius, lay elsewhere&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.667).<br /><br />Osan'gar's reactions to Moridin and his thoughts show that he really fears this task. But he is too afraid of Moridin to refuse to do it. After all, &quot;Moridin would find out somehow if he fled, and kill him&quot;. <br /><br />Therefore Osan'gar stays and &quot;perhaps he would find the chance to be a hero. Carefully, of course.&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.668 )  <br /><br />Osan'gar is really very cautious and for this he fits the patron's personality and has a particular motive to send Slayer.<br /><br />Plus, as one of the Chosen who got a second chance from the Great Lord and now obey Moridin, Osan'gar must be even more careful not to annoy the Nae'blis. This explains why Osan'gar was disguised when he sent Slayer to kill Rand. <br /><br />Moreover Osan'gar knew that Rand is in Far Madding. We learn that again from Kisman, &quot;Far Madding was to be their last chance; he [Taim] had made that as plain as polished brass. Dashiva had simply vanished. Kisman did not know whether he had run or the M'hael had killed him...&quot; (WH, ch.22,pg.452).<br /><br />The sequence of Kisman's thoughts indicates that Dashiva vanished after Taim gave the task to kill Rand in Far Madding and this explains how Osan'gar could know about Rand's location. Taim learned where Rand stays because of the hints Rand left so that the Asha'man could find them. Then Taim sent the renegade Asha'man to Far Madding. After that Dashiva/Osan'gar vanished.     <br /><br />One argument against Osan'gar or another Chosen from the meeting is that the patron doesn't command Slayer to bring Rand's possessions like Moridin told the Asha'man.<br /><br />There are a few explanations. First, the first meeting between Slayer and the patron is off-screen. It's possible that the patron gave Slayer the order to bring Rand's possessions. Second, since the patron is very cautious, he could be afraid that such an order could be a hint of his identity. Or third, the patron is sure that Rand has nothing of worth with him in Far Madding. Therefore a command to bring Rand's possessions would be needless.<br /><br />Another counterargument for Osan'gar as patron is that &quot;despite being a farmer, Dashiva disliked being out-of-doors unless the skies were clear&quot;(TPoD, ch.13, pg.320). Osan'gar wouldn't make a gateway to a snowy forest glade like the patron because he hates being out-of-doors. Osan'gar would immediately go to his refuge.<br /><br />That's a rather weak argument. As already pointed out the patron would be very stupid to make it possible that Slayer views his refuge like he sees the glade. Especially considering the patron's caution to hide his identity it's not likely that even someone who hates the out-doors wouldn't go first to a place which Slayer can't recognize like a snowy forest glade.  <br /><br />Indeed, nothing speaks against Osan'gar being the patron.<br /><br />Osan'gar tried to find Rand with Slayer's help. We know that Slayer can &quot;not use Tel'aran'rhiod the way the Chosen could&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.459). But in TSR we see Slayer's travel abilities in his fight against Perrin in the Dream World. I suppose that Slayer uses T'A'R to find his victims in a similiar way like the Wise Ones show Nynaeve and Elayne the using of T'A'R to find the Bowl of the Winds, &quot;the Wise Ones said the stronger the need the better...&quot; (LoC, ch.13, pg.331).<br /><br />Osan'gar knew from Taim that Rand and Min are in Far Madding. Most obviously they are in an inn and probably &quot;in one of the inns that catered to foreign men&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.447) in Far Madding. So there weren't much places where Slayer could search. I think Slayer used his technique of searching people in T'A'R and find the right inn and the right room. But since Rand and Min left the room a few hours before Slayer only killed the new pair sleeping in this room, the new guests of the inn.   <br /><br />Of course I don't know how exactly Slayer's hunting in T'A'R works but it seems to be quite difficult. He only could find the room where Rand was a few hours ago. This explains Slayer's question to the patron:&quot; Do you want me to try again?&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.460). Slayer asks if he should try again his technique to find people in the World of Dreams but the patron refuses for the moment. <br /><br />In any case, Osan'gar has actual another special reason to fear a direct confrontation with Rand even more than the risk of Moridin's punishment. In PoD, ch.29, pg.647, Osan'gar already tried to kill Rand and failed. We learn from Kisman that after the attempt and after Taim gave the renegades the last chance to kill Rand in Far Madding, &quot;Dashiva had simply vanished&quot; (WH, ch.22, pg.452). <br /><br />His reason is obvious. After the attempt to kill Rand in Cairhien, Osan'gar fears that now Rand would hunt him and that his life is in great danger.<br /><br />This explains why Osan'gar is particularly afraid of challenging Rand again, especially with the power of the Choedan Kal and in an One Power battle. <br /><br />He wants Slayer to kill Rand before this battle. It's the only possibility to avoid a deadly fight for someone who isn't a soldier. And indeed, Osan'gar, the genius, seems to be the only Forsaken who died in the end of WH, ch.35, pg.675. That is quite ironic.<br /><br /><b> VII. Conclusion: Osan'gar is the Patron </b><br /><br />All this indicates that the patron is (or was) most likely Osan'gar.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> I disagree with your assertion that Demandred wouldn't wear a disguise when talking to Slayer since he hadn't worn one when talking to the Asha'man.  As you said earlier, the Chosen learn at the tea party that Moridin is keeping a close eye on Slayer.  If your inferences from of that statement were correct, and this is the reason why the patron wore the disguise, then the patron would <i>not</i> wear a disguise when talking to someone with whom Moridin did not indicate any association.  This falls perfectly in line with Demandred's actions.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-03-23 21:40:25
subject: Laughing Muses
body:
<p>There have been many recent theories about the cause of the COT ghosts, but very little speculation as to what they are and what their purpose is. This theory will irrefutably prove that these so-called 'ghosts' are actually Laughing Muses, an angry, twisted version of our own ancient Greek muses.<br /><br />I will bring out the most obvious proof first, so that we may do away with those cynical mutterings right off the bat. By using a secret and highly complicated, mechanical/literary device of my own invention which borders on violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics, I have been able to extract a series of numbers which--when applied to COT--yield a very convincing argument. I would first like to point out that Robert Jordan himself has pointed to the similarities between the ability to channel and various thermodynamic properties--conclusive evidence that entropy violating machines will produce the most effective analyses of the Wheel of Time. The numbers I received are as follows, and are in the form of: <br />Page(line/letter#,line/letter#,etc).<br />15(1/6,2/5,3/16) 97(6/1,16/33,26/7) 179(1/1,2/2,3/40) 261(6/12,15/13,25/3) 343(1/14,2/15,3/20) 425(6/4,14/5,23/4) 507(1/4,2/18,13/1) 589(6/8,13/10,20/19) 671(1/3,1/1,2/2,2/7,2/10,5/2). <br />And what does it spell? &quot;I AM RJ. THE GHOSTS ARE LAUGHING MUSES.&quot; Conclusive evidence indeed.<br /><br />But for those of you who do not believe in the objectivity of pure mathematics (and shame on you!), there is further evidence. In the previous nine, short books we have rarely encountered loud, boisterous laughter from major characters. Yes, Fain has the habit of insane cackling, but this laughter has been ripped from the Pattern, and cannot (under MLA rules) be used as evidence of certified hilarity. But in COT we come upon uncontrollable mirth from no less than three major characters. On page 83, &quot;Loial threw back his head and laughed, a booming sound that filled the room. His ears twitched violently.&quot; What could cause such laughter? Stress? Bizarre allusions to Tolkien? Fear? Hardly! Only the presence of a Laughing Muse could cause such misappropriated joy.<br /><br />More proof follows: For one entire chapter are we forced to listen to Faile's POV. It would have only taken a line or two to write this chapter, (&quot;Faile wanted to get out, but was annoying instead. Rolan fell in love with her, foreshadowing his eventual capture as gai'shain and marriage to Berelain. The plot was slow.') but it took 28 pages instead. It is a well-known fact that Mr. Jordan is as miserly with words as Charles Dickens (a Victorian author who wrote David Copperfield, a short screen play written for said magician to perform in 15 minutes), so it cannot be that this chapter is verbose without reason. Indeed, we plod through this nightmare, finally see the end and exclaim, &quot;Thank goodness,&quot; causing violent emotions throughout our being--thus securing our eternal memory of the last lines in the chapter. &quot;Suddenly she realized that she was laughing...it was only partly hysteria...She laughed until she cried&quot; (p 265-66). Why would Mr. Jordan go to such effort to cause this memory in his readers? Simply because Laughing Muses are as hard to find a Asmodean's killer (Graendalmandred), and it was important that we all recall this clue.<br /><br />Next on the list: Mat. We skip right to the quote, also at the very end of his POV. &quot;Despite himself, Mat began to laugh. He threw his hat down on the floor and laughed...He laughed until his ribs hurt&quot; (p 650). Never before have there been so many laughing episodes in a Wheel of Time book, and never before have there been odd ghosts roaming around. The coincidence is unavoidable and the conclusion obvious: the ghosts are indeed Laughing Muses. &quot;But wait!&quot; you cry. &quot;How could something so petty as a Laughing Muse affect Mat, who is obviously Odin?&quot; A good question, and one of the few really good counter-arguments available. And here is the answer: Mat has already lost his inner Muse-finding eye. Probably the dice knocked it out somewhere along the line. He, of course, did see the ghosts in Jurador, but was already blind to the fact that they were Laughing Muses. Distracted by silk purchasing, killing sul'dam and his impending command of the entire Seanchan army, Mat did not notice the potent powers of the Laughing Muses until it was too late.<br /><br />Argument may be made that the darkhounds are actually the cause of this major-character laughing spree. This is absurd. Not only was Perrin--the closest main character to the pack--unaffected, but past experience with darkhounds has not caused amusement. Not even a little bit of giggling.<br /><br />But why are the Laughing Muses in Randland, and why are the doing what they seem to do so well? The obvious answer is sniffing. Muses, of course, are a species as rare as dragons, gnomes and people who think Taim is merely ambitious. We know little of them, but it is well known that they are deterred by sniffing; a quote from just before the Breaking is the earliest known manuscript to contain an indication of this: &quot;The Muses of Amuse, repulsed by sniff/The Myrddraal repelled by water.&quot; Many readers will have noticed the distinct lack of Nynaeve in the most recent WOT novel; it would be an insult to the intelligence of this theory's readers for me to take this argument any farther.<br /><br />Any further speculation would be just that (are they of the Dark, or do they 'work' alone--this writer hopes other astute readers will be able to find an answer), and so I shall leave this theory as is. It can only be hoped that those characters who are not currently disabled by the curse of these Laughing Muses will be able to save those who are...</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Sheer brilliance.  And I scoff at anyone who ignores the overwhelming logic and obviousness of the proff by pure mathematics.  Scoff, I say!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-03-24 14:25:21
subject: Rebellion on Tremalking
body:
<p>Tremalking and the Amayar are mentioned several times in the books and even in &quot;The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time&quot; (the Guide). It's obvious that they will play a role in the future plot. I will try to figure out more about this role.<br /><br /><b> Alviarin's Travel </b><br /><br />We know from CoT, ch. 21, that something important happens on Tremalking since Mesaana sent Alviarin to the island where she got muddy. After Alviarin returns from her travel to the White Tower, &quot;she channeled the reddish mud from her shoes and the hem of her skirts and cloak. It seemed unlikely that anyone would recognize it as coming from Tremalking, the largest of the Sea Folk islands, but someone might wonder where she had been to get muddy.&quot; (CoT, ch.21, pg.500)    <br /><br />A bit later Alviarin meets the Sea Folk sister Zemaille and &quot;she almost wanted to tell Zemaille what was happening on Tremalking, just to see whether the woman would flinch.&quot; (CoT, ch.21, pg.503)<br /><br />What could make a Sea Folk woman flinch and please Alviarin?<br /><br />I think the it&#8217;s a rebellion of the Amayar against the Sea Folk on Tremalking. This would be in fact a big surprize for the Sea Folk sister since the Amayar seem to be a peaceful group and Zemaille would never imagine something like this. <br /><br /><b> the Prophecies of the Amayar </b><br /><br />The Amayar, a rather isolated group on the Sea Folk islands, follow the &quot;peace of the Water Way&quot; (PoD, ch.1, pg.37). Therefore &quot;the Amayar ignored the world beyond their scattered islands, for the Water Way taught that this world was only illusion&quot; (PoD, ch.1, pg.37). The Guide, ch.19, pg.177, says that this &quot;Water Way&quot; is &quot;not as pacifistic as the Way of the Leaf&quot; but violence is not very accepted among the group.  <br /> <br />On the other hand we know a prophecy from the Amayar concerning the female Choedan Kal on Tremalking, &quot;the Amayar had their own prophecies, and some of those spoke of the hand and the sphere. And the end of illusions&quot; (PoD, ch.1, pg.38 ).<br /><br />In WH, ch.35, pg.662, the Amayar Timna, who is &quot;one of the Guides chosen to protect&quot; the Atha'an Miere, sees the shining sphere of the Choedan Kal while Rand and Nynaeve are cleansing Saidin. &quot;All thoughts of the Atha'an Miere gone&quot;, Timna thinks that &quot;she might see the fulfillment of prophecy and the end of Illusion.&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.663). And indeed after that event &quot;on distant Tremalking, the word began spread that the Time of Illusions was at an end&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.678 ).    <br /><br />The fulfillment of the prophecy must announce an essential change for the Amayar, so that the word of this event spread very fast among the Amayar. Every Amayar needs to know this. <br /><br />Indeed, the &quot;Time of Illusions&quot; ends. This indicates that also the Amayar Water Way ends because the Water Way says that the world beyond their the islands is just an illusion. With the fulfillment of the prophecy the reality of the world beyond the Sea Folk islands is proven and this is the proof that the Water Way was wrong. For this the unacceptability of violence, which is part of this Water Way, must obviously end, too.   <br /><br />Also Timna, a Guide for the Sea Folk, isn't concerned any longer about the Atha'an Miere after she saw the fulfillment of the prophecy. They seem no longer important. It&#8217;s prophesied that the Dragon Reborn &#8220;will tearing apart all ties that bind&#8221; (TGH, pg. XI). With the cleansing Rand has indirectly done this to the Amayar and their Water Way.<br /><br /><b> the Aim of the Amayar </b><br /><br />I believe the aim of the Amayar is that all Amayar gather and take over the control of Tremalking and the other islands. In this case, it's a part of their prophecies, and after violence is not longer forbidden not unlikely. <br />Of course this means a rebellion against the Sea Folk which rules the island with governors, &quot;even though the majority of the land-based population of the islands is Amayar, the governors are appointed from among the Atha'an Miere, never the Amayar.&quot; (Guide, ch.19, pg.178 ). It would explain Alviarin's thought about the happenings on Tremalking and the flinching Sea Folk sister. <br /><br />Furthermore, a sentence in the Guide, ch.19, pg.178, hints that an Amayar rebellion is more than an absurd or unlikely idea: <br /><br />&quot;There is no record or even rumor of any sort of rebellion or protest against their [the Amayar&#8217;s] rulers&quot;. <br /><br />This passage does not show that there would be never a rebellion, only that there were no rebellions in the past. If you think about it, this sentence actually proves that RJ considered the idea and possibility of an Amayar rebellion. Of course in the Guide (published long before CoT) aren't any rumors about rebellion mentioned because at this point the Amayar lived still in the Time of Illusion. I believe that this sentence is a foreshadowing of coming rebellions. Why should this be mentioned, why does RJ has the idea about rebellions from the Amayar if it's obvious that there will never a rebellion of the Amayar?<br /><br />And indeed, the chances for the Amayar to win a rebellion are perfect at the moment. <br />Most of the Sea Folk are with their ships away from the islands. Timna considers about the Sea Folk, &quot;all in an uproar over this Coramoor of theirs. Very few remained on the islands&quot; (WH, ch.35, pg.662). We know e.g. that some of the Sea Folk are prisoners of the Seanchan at this time, others stay in Illian to elect the new Mistress of the Ships.   <br /><br />Also I believe that the Amayar will build ships because most of the Sea Folk ships are away and &quot;the only boats they own themselves are fairly small, used for fishing in the coastal waters of the island&quot; (Guide, ch.19, pg.178 ). We know that &#8220;some of the Amayar work in the Sea Folk&#8217;s shipyards, ropewalks, and dry docks&#8230;&#8221; (Guide, ch.19, pg.178 ). This means they have the knowledge to build ships. The point that Alviarin get muddy on a hilly island like Tremalking could be a hint that she visited the muddy coastal area.<br />Of course the Sea Folk&#8217;s harbor, shipyards and dry docks are in the coastal area. Maybe Alviarin saw the rebellious Amayar there because it was their first aim to control these strategically important buildings. This would be another happening making Zemaille flinch if Alviarin tells her about it. <br /><br />My opinion about the shipbuilding is based on the point that the world beyond their islands is not longer an illusion for the Amayar. This indicates that they will change their attitude now and directly participate at the mainland conflicts. At least a part of the Amayar will leave the islands after the rebellion, sailing to the mainland. Naturally they need ships to reach the mainland since the Sea Folk ships are away. <br /><br />In any case, their prophecy wouldn't make sense if the Time of Illusions ends and the outer world is proved real but all Amayar stay isolated at their islands. A fundamental change must happen to the Amayar society. <br /><br />Some people suggested that the Amayar know the Song and will bring it to the mainland. Though we don&#8217;t have enough hints to proof that now I think it&#8217;s definitive a very good possibility if you consider the isolation of the Amayar in the past and maybe a connection to the Da&#8217;shain Aiel. If this is true the bringing of the Song to the mainland could be a part of their prophecy.  <br /><br /><b> Or a Seanchan attack? </b><br /><br />On the other hand maybe your first thought about the happenings was: a Seanchan attack.  After all the Choedan Kal has &#8220;a clear sphere as large as a house. And that spere was shining like a glorious summer sun.&#8221; (WH, ch.35, pg.662). No question, it would be a quite interesting plot twist if the Seanchan would have access to the female Choedan Kal. But some points speak against the theory that the Seanchan conquered Tremalking. <br /><br />The Seanchan don&#8217;t need Tremalking at all. They are already landed on the mainland and have their power base in several nations. At the moment the Seanchan seem concentrated on Tar Valon, we don&#8217;t know any plans about Tremalking. The only Sea Folk island the Seachan conquered was Cantorin because they needed a harbour after the defeat in Falme. Why should they waste ships and men on a Sea Folk island? Therefore I don&#8217;t think any Seanchan ship was in the waters near Tremalking and could see the shining Choedan Kal. And if someone saw it, it&#8217;s not likely that the Seanchan could arrive with an army just a few days after the cleansing.<br /><br />Alviarin wouldn&#8217;t return to the White Tower relaxed like this, only concerned about the mud from Tremalking, if she were on an island with some Sul&#8217;dam and Damane. She would worry much more. <br /><br />This explanation would completely ignore the plot relevance and the pleasant prophecies for the Amayar if they are now just prisoners of the Seanchan as I pointed out above.<br /><br />Finally, I just can&#8217;t imagine that RJ would give the Seanchan (and with this probably Semirhage) the dangerous power of the female Choedan Kal. To use the Choedan Kal properly you need an access key. It wouldn&#8217;t be very original if an ignorant Sul&#8217;dam uses the Chodan Kal with her Damane and risks the destruction of the world like Rand in TGH, ch.20, did already the same with the male Choedan Kal. If there would be Sul&#8217;dam and Damane on Tremalking they would try to use the Choedan Kal and in their ignorance probably with disastrous results. Not very likely.<br /><br /><b> Conclusion: War reached Tremalking </b><br /><br />For this, it's more likely that Alviarin saw the rebellion of the Amayar on Tremalking. I'm quite sure we will hear more than rumors about this in the next book. Of course I don't now if and how much Alviarin, Mesaana or the Shadow in general are involved in this happenings (that&#8217;s a RAFO), but with the cleansing of Saidin war has finally reached Tremalking, and every bit of chaos seems to strengthen the Dark One.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-03-29 14:01:23
subject: Nicola&#8217;s Foretelling: The Great Battle of Tar Valon
body:
<p><b> I. The Prophecy </b><br /><br />In LoC, ch.14, pg.351,  Nicola foretells: <br /><br /><b> &quot;The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return and the guardians balance out the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade&#8221;. </b><br /><br />I want to concentrate on the great battle part. Many people believe that &#8220;the great battle&#8221; Nicola mentions must be Tarmon Gai&#8217;don since it obviously will be a great battle. <br />I think this conclusion is wrong and at least after CoT it&#8217;s clear that this prophecy refers to the battle of Tar Valon. <br /><br /><b> II.  A Gathering of many important Groups </b><br /><br />The whole plot prepares a great battle at Tar Valon with almost all groups involved. <br /><br />We know that  <b> the Resident Aes Sedai </b> have lead a huge army to Tar Valon and stand before the island since PoD, ch.30. <br /><br />Obviously <b> the Tower Aes Sedai </b> gather also soldiers, especially <b> the Younglings </b> under Gawyn shall fight for Elaida. <br /><br /><b> The Shadow </b> is involved with Aran&#8217;gar, Mesaana and the Black Aes Sedai. Maybe even Shaidar Haran gave Mesaana some instructions after his punishment in CoT, ch. 21 either from Moridin or directly from the Dark One.  <br /><br />Finally in CoT, ch.4, pg. we learn that <b> the Seanchan </b> want to attack the White Tower as soon as possible. The Seanchan Karede considers that he had been raised to banner-general because &#8220;some thought he must have wisdom to share about fighting marath&#8217;damane&#8221; (CoT, ch.4, pg.154). After Alviarin&#8217;s destruction of the gateway, the Seanchan believe &#8220;the so-called Aes Sedai revealed their unknown weapon only a few leagues&#8221; away from Ebou Dar, so that &#8220;a great deal of thinking had gone into how to cripple their power&#8221; (CoT, ch.4, pg.155). Karede even watches a &#8220;map of Tar Valon&#8221; (CoT, ch.4, pg.156) . The Seanchan want to surprise the Aes Sedai with a fast strike at their power center.<br /><br />Actually in CoT, ch.30, pg.677, when Egwene sails to Northharbour, she sees &#8220;something flashed across the moon&#8221; which is not &#8220;a Draghkar&#8221; or &#8220;only a bat&#8221; as Egwene considers but a Raken, a spy of the Seanchan. Already in CoT, prologue, pg.31, one of Logain&#8217;s Aes Sedai Gabrelle saw &#8220;a long-winged bird of some sort&#8221;; maybe a Raken on the flight to Tar Valon? In any case the Seanchan attack on Tar Valon is near.<br /><br />Egwene&#8217;s dream in CoT, ch.20, pg. 495, supports this idea, &#8220;for the first time, she knew exactly what a dream meant&#8221;. She dreams &#8220;of the Seanchan attacking the White Tower. An attack that would shake the Aes Sedai to their core and threaten the Tower itself&#8221;. <br />And she already dreamed of this attack back in TDR, ch.25, pg.290, though Egwene thought it was just a nightmare, &#8221;she had dreamed of Seanchan, too, of woman in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breast, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.&#8221;<br /><br />We learn that the Seanchan will capture many Aes Sedai, probably first the residents. And we learn that RJ planned this battle at Tar Valon from the beginning, it&#8217;s an important plot.  <br /> <br />With this gathering of many important groups it&#8217;s no surprise that &#8220;at Tar Valon, some stories said, great armies had clashed, and the streets ran with blood&#8221; (PoD, ch.31, pg.671). RJ prepares for a long time a really great battle at Tar Valon.<br /><br /><b> III. Why the Great Battle isn&#8217;t Tarmon Gai&#8217;don </b><br /><br />There will be a great battle at Tar Valon. Probably it&#8217;s the most important before Tarmon Gai&#8217;don. For this a battle at Tar Valon should be worth to be called &#8220;the great battle&#8221;, though TG will certainly be even greater. I believe that the foretelling refers to this big battle at Tar Valon. <br /><br />At the moment everything leads to Tarmon Gai&#8217;don. In fact that seems to be the endpoint of the Third Age. If we assume that a foretelling is something like &#8220;a hint from the pattern&#8221; or a &#8220;glimpse on the pattern,&#8221; it&#8217;s not very likely that there would be already a foretelling about the time after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don. <br /><br />Nicola says <b> &#8220;the great battle done, but the world not done with battle&#8221; </b>. <br />Tarmon Gai&#8217;don is known as the &#8220;Last Battle&#8221;. For this the world must be done with battle after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don, at least some time (of course not forever). <br /><br />And don&#8217;t forget RJ said there will maybe 12 or 13 books. There can't be much about the time after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don. Of course there could be an epilogue, but I seriously doubt that RJ will spend much space in the books on this time. It&#8217;s unlikely that RJ would let Nicola foretell a plot which certainly will not be in the books or stop the books at such an interesting moment when everything isn&#8217;t clear at all.   <br /><br />Furthermore it is said that <b> &#8220;the future teeters on the edge of a blade&#8221; </b>. <br />It doesn&#8217;t make much sense that this refers to the time after the Last Battle since there will be certainly a solution (even if RJ want to leave some plot elements unsolved). <br />After all this is the meaning of Tarmon Gai&#8217;don, to make clear if the future is determined by the Light or the Shadow. If the future is still unpredictable after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don and the Shadow can still win, the Last Battle would not be such important.  <br /><br />Therefore it makes sense that the time after a battle at Tar Valon is meant. <br />After this great battle other battles will follow; of course the world is not done with battles. I suppose then the Shadowspawn will come from the blight, the &#8220;real&#8221; war between Light and Shadow will start and finally result in Tarmon Gai&#8217;don.  <br />The future is not clear since the Shadow or the Light can still win at TG.<br />Once again, after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don it should be clear. <br /><br /><b> IV. The other Parts of the Foretelling </b><br /><br />Also the other parts of the foretelling make more sense if it&#8217;s about the Tar Valon battle. <br /><br /><b> &#8220;And the guardians balance out the servants&#8221; </b>, Asha'man and Aes Sedai are obviously meant here. This could be a further hint that some Aes Sedai will die at the battle or are captured by the Seanchan, because at the moment the number of both Aes Sedai camps together would be higher than the number of Asha&#8217;man. I believe, it tells us that the Seanchan will win the battle at Tar Valon, too. If one of the Aes Sedai camps would win, the White Tower would be whole again, but all Aes Sedai together would certainly outnumber the Asha&#8217;man. <br /><br />If that&#8217;s right and we consider Elaida&#8217;s foretelling in ACoS, prologue, pg.16:<br /><br />&#8220;The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds.&quot;<br /><br />It tells us also that the White Tower will be whole again not immediately after the battle but someone later, perhaps even with Damane and Sul&#8217;dam, because at this time the White Tower seems to be much stronger than the Black Tower and not balanced. Maybe all this happens through Rand&#8217;s help what surely would anger Egwene as the Amyrlin.<br /><br />Finally we learn that first the battle at Tar Valon will happen, then later the unity of the White Tower again and at the end a battle at the Black Tower. Perhaps the unity of the White Tower and the battle at the Black Tower are the uncertain events that make the future teeter on the edge of a blade, as in Nicola&#8217;s viewing. <br /><br />Besides, some hints strongly indicate that the Asha&#8217;man and the Aes Sedai will unite at least after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don, the glory Min sees around Logain and the mentioning of &#8220;Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age&#8221; in LoC, pg.IX.<br /><br />We already see the beginning of this unity: Aes Sedai swore fealty to Rand, Aes Sedai bond Asha&#8217;man and vice versa. The Resident Aes Sedai want &#8220;an agreement with the Black Tower&#8221; (CoT, ch.19, pg.471)  and even the red Aes Sedai Tarna in the Tower believes: &#8220;Red sisters must take them [Asha&#8217;man] as Warders&#8221; (CoT, ch.22, pg.524).    <br /><br />The Asha&#8217;man and the Aes Sedai are separated in Nicola&#8217;s viewing. It could be at least another clue that it refers to a time before Tarmon Gai&#8217;don since they will probably be united after the Last Battle (though it&#8217;s not certain).<br /><br /><b>&quot;The land  divided by the return&#8221;</b> could be a hint of the Seanchan and their Corenne. With all these connections between the three ta&#8217;veren and the Seanchan we see in CoT, it seems likely that the Seanchan will fight with Rand against the Dark One at Tarmon Gai&#8217;don. <br /><br />Mat will marry Tuon (as the Finn said), Rand will probably achieve now a truce with the Seanchan (though he must first handle with Suoth and Semirhage) and Perrin surely an alliance against the Shaido, &#8220;though it would be like taking the Dark One&#8217;s help&#8221; (CoT, ch.27, pg.602) . Finally we know since TDR, ch.6, pg.93, that the Dragon Reborn &#8220;shall bind the nine moons to serve him&#8221;. A clear hint that Tuon and with this the Seanchan will serve Rand before TG. Therefore I assume the land will not be still divided between Rand and the Seanchan after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don. Another clue that this foretelling can&#8217;t mean this time.<br /><br />On the other hand &#8220;the return&#8221; could simply mean LTTs return through Rand which obviously divided the Westlands into Rand and Seanchan territory at the moment, many time we hear that Rand &#8220;will break the nations, or shatter the world&#8221; (TDR, ch.6, pg.93).<br />If indeed the Dragon Reborn is meant, it&#8217;s more likely that after TG the Westlands are not longer divided through Rand but an unity because &#8220;the Prophecies said he would bind together the people of every land -&#8217;The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall he bound to the south&#8217;&#8221; (ACoS, ch.34, pg.592). <br /><br />Of course it could also mean that Rand will have the north and the east and the Seanchan the west and the south of the Westlands but al least when Rand &#8220;binds the nine moons&#8221; this dividing would end. In any case, it&#8217;s no hint that it must refer to the after TG time. <br /><br />Finally the part: <b> &#8220;three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives&#8221; </b>, is still a mystery.<br /><br />Of course Elayne, Aviendha and Min are <b> &quot;the lion sword, the dedicated speer, she who sees beyond&quot; </b>. With them on the boat is certainly Rand. Although, I don&#8217;t believe Rand&#8217;s describtion has anything to do with his prophesied death at Tarmon Gai&#8217;don, and must be consequently an argument that the boat scene happens after the Last Battle. <br /><br />Like the descriptions of the three women it&#8217;s an abstract picture of Rand. Either it refers to LTT as the one who is dead but lives again through Rand, or more general that Rand as &#8220;the Dragon Reborn&#8221; is the reborn version of a dead man and for this he should be dead but he lives. <br /><br />There is also a Wise Ones dream with the same boat image, LoC, ch.19, pg.435: <br /><br />&quot;Melaine and Bair dreamed of you [Rand] on a boat [&#8230;] with three women whose faces they could not see and a scale tilting first one way and then the other. Melaine and Amys dreamed of a man standing by your side with a dagger to your throat, but you did not see him. Bair and Amys dreamed of you cutting the wetlands in two with a sword.&#8221; Later they tell Rand the dream about the Bowl of Winds.<br /><br />The first dream corresponds with Nicola&#8217;s foretelling, though we learn from her who the women are. Note that the Wise Ones don&#8217;t say that Rand seems to be dead, e.g. lies on the boat, something they surely had seen and tell if this were in the dream. <br />Consequently we must assume that a living Rand was on the boat  <br /><br />The &#8220;scale&#8221; image is a parallel to Nicola&#8217;s &#8220;blade&#8221; image. Both indicate that the future, maybe especially for the four people in the boat, isn&#8217;t clear and it could end good or bad. <br /><br />Interesting for us, if you connect the boat dream with the other dreams, all other dreams are obviously about something happening before TG: a thread on Rand (Taim or the Aes Sedai kidnapping him?), Rand dividing the Westlands and the search for the Bowl of Winds. Why should then the first dream be about a time after TG? <br /><br />If the &#8220;return&#8221; in Nicola&#8217;s dream means LTTs return or the Dragon Reborn than we have a third parallel to the Wise Ones dreams with Rand &#8220;cutting the wetlands in two&#8221;.   <br />All this indicates that both, foretelling and dreams, refer to the time before Tarmon Gai&#8217;don.<br /><br />Knowing this, the boat image must be something after the Tar Valon battle but before the White Tower is whole again, before a battle at the Black Tower and of course before Tarmon Gai&#8217;don like the rest of Nicola&#8217;s prophecy. Therefore it certainly hasn&#8217;t anything to do not with a King Arthur like funeral scene (besides this would be a really impudent copy).  Although something significant will happen with these four people who are connected even more after Rand&#8217;s bonding in WH; I suppose it&#8217;s a RAFO.    <br /><br /><b> V. Conclusion: Foretelling about the time after the Tar Valon Battle </b><br /><br />All clues together prove that Nicola&#8217;s foretelling is about the time after the Tar Valon battle and not about the time after Tarmon Gai&#8217;don.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> You make a lot of good points.  I wonder if RJ plans to bring this up later in order to remove strip away our confidence in how the series will turn out.  Even if the prophecy turns out to refer to the time after the Last Battle after all, I can see why RJ might want there to be some uncertainty as to its meaning.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-04 08:38:52
subject: Lanfear/Cyndane Reduced Power Explained
body:
<p>I believe that it is generally accepted that Cyndane is Lanfear. Thus I am going to avoid arguing for that particular point. The next question that should come to everyone's mind is &quot;If Cyndane is Lanfear then why is she so much weaker in the one power?&quot; We know that other forsaken seem to be reincarnated at about the same one power strength. Why should Lanfear be any different?<br /><br />What we know about Lanfear and her history can help us to unravel this mystery. Lanfear was something of a one power scientist in the Age of Legends. Thus she would be well versed in all things One Power related. We also know that she was very ambitious. The guide even suggests that Lewis Therin broke off his relationship with her &quot;... partly because she loved her association with the great Lewis Therin more than she loved the man himself and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.&quot; (Guide, pg 63)<br /><br />The next thing that we notice about Lanfear is that she is amazingly gifted at a great number of very useful things. One could almost say that she is too &quot;good&quot; to be true. Think about it. She is the strongest female channeler. She is largely regarded as the most beautiful woman in the world. She has great skill in manipulating Tel'aran'rhoid. All three of these things are supposedly random traits or talents that one is born with yet Lanfear is the best in the world at two if not three of them? Either she is very lucky indeed or she has something up her sleave. Given her ambition I suspect the latter. <br /><br />I suspect that sometime in the Age of Legends Lanfear paid a visit to our friends the Aelfinn. As we all know they are the fox people that grant wishes. Lanfear likely wished to be the strongest in the one power and the most beautiful and possibly for her Dreaming talent. Everyone agrees that when dealing with the foxes it is very likely that you will get a bad deal. So how did Lanfear come out so far ahead? Well naturally she cheated. You remember the rhyme: &quot;Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind.&quot; <br /><br />Besides the circumstantial evidence how do I support this? Well, there is one very enlightening quote. Lanfear has something of a one power duel with Alivia while Rand is off cleansing the male half of the source and we get a nice, but brief Lanfear point of view: &quot;Then the woman struck back at her, and she suffered her second shock. She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and Eelfinn held her! That was <b>impossible</b>; no woman <b>could</b> be stronger.&quot; (Winters Heart, pg 649) How does she know that no woman could be stronger? She knows for certain because she wished for it.<br /><br />At this point we should know why Lanfear came back with a different OP strength. She isn't really a special case at all. She came back with roughly her original strength. Only, her original strength was what she had before she did all that wishing. Of course your next question (and mine) is why did she lose her wishes. I see three basic possibilities:<br /><br /><b>(1)</b> Wishes just don't transfer between lives. Any way in which you change yourself by wishing just doesn't transfer. This is argued against by the fact that channeling is a function of the soul and you<br />would think that it would transfer.<br /><br /><b>(2)</b> My personal favorite: Lanfear's original wish was something along the line of: &quot;I wish to be the strongest female channeler in my lifetime.&quot; She died. Her lifetime is over and so is her wish. This is more likely because I find it doubtful that the Aelfinn would/could grant a wish that made her the strongest channeler of all time.<br /><br /><b>(3)</b> Lanfear was thrown back into Aelfinn-land by Moraine. The Aelfinn were really pissed when Lanfear returned to their realm, because she probably &quot;cheated&quot; the first time. They could have taken her wishes back. This is also quite likely. <br /><br />It is interesting to note that the third option does not preclude the possibility that Lanfear actually survived her visit to Aelfinn-land and somehow escaped. Thus the person we call Cyndane might be Lanfear in her original body and with her original One Power strength. I think this is unlikely, but it is an interesting hypothesis. <br /><br />In conclusion I believe that it is likely that Lanfear wished herself powerful in the AoL and that somehow her trip to  Aelfinn-land caused her to lose the benefit of those wishes. This explains the difference in OP strength between Lanfear and her new &quot;incarnation&quot; as Cyndane.<br /> <br /><br /></p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> I've never come across an idea like this.  I like it!  It very neatly has several explanations for what might have happened, and certainly is possible.  Yes, I like this idea a lot.  Good job!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-04 12:33:18
subject: The Dark One's Avatar: the Baal'zamon, SH and Moridin connection
body:
<p>I plan to present an argument that should explain in part the behavior of Ishamael as Ba&#8217;alzamon, the creation of (or augmentation, for those Everlasting Fade theorists) and behaviour of Shadar Haran and a possible reason as to why Beidomon will never be seen in the Third Age.<br /><br /><b>Premise</b><br /><br />The DO either always has had, or acquired during the AOL, the ability to impart an individual with part of Its own &#8216;essence&#8217;; creating, in part, a synthesis with that person/creature and the ability to apprehend the external world to a greater extent.  This inevitably wrought changes upon the beings so changed; as the DO&#8217;s mental presence was in no ways gentle.  Inevitably, with a human, the host ended believing himself to be the DO, not the servant.<br /><br /><b>Argument</b><br /><br />Ishamael is shown, right from the very beginning of the series, as having some form of special dispensation from the DO.  In the prologue of TEOTW, Ishamael speaks the DO&#8217;s name, in anger, but with no thought as to any possible consequences.  This is not seen elsewhere amongst the Chosen.  Lanfear considers such things &#8216;blasphemy&#8217;. [TSR, ch.9 &#8216;Decisions&#8217;]<br /><br />	Ishamael gained the peculiar ability to escape the Bore periodically.  I believe he needed the DO&#8217;s own power to be able to accomplish this, and was gifted with Shai&#8217;tan&#8217;s touch.  This provided direct access to the TP, and prevented the inevitable destruction brought about by TP use.<br /><br />	By the time the remaining Chosen escape, Ishamael, now known as Ba&#8217;alzamon, is regarded quite mad, as always, but even mad enough to believe himself to be the DO.  [All through the first 3 books, Ba&#8217;alzamon speaks as though he is the DO enough for both Rand to think he was, and other Forsaken to comment upon it.  Too many references]  By this time, the DO has broken down most of Ishamael&#8217;s personality, and is driving his actions to a very great extent; hence, his claim to be the DO.<br /><br />	With these thoughts in mind, we now look at Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s death in the Stone of Tear [TDR, ch.55 &#8216;What is Written in Prophecy; end of the chapter] <br /><br />	Here are a few highlights from the passage:<br /><br />Ba&#8217;alzamon gathers the darkness about himself and shouts, &#8220;Aid me!&#8221; Who could he possibly be shouting to?  The only options are the DO Itself, It&#8217;s avatar or a fellow Chosen.  Not only does it seem highly unlikely that there would be any other Forsaken nearby, but what occurs next reveals whom Ba&#8217;alzamon was yelling to.<br /><br />	A black ball coalesces in Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s hand, seeming even to swallow the light of Callandor.  Ishamael regards this as his salvation.  I guess most people reading this passage assume this is simply a gathering of TP force, ready to smite Rand.  I regard this in a somewhat different matter.  The DO&#8217;s avatar has largely escaped from Ba&#8217;alzamon, the distillation of this &#8216;essence&#8217; now in the ball of darkness.<br /><br />	Rand then severs the black &#8216;wires&#8217; connecting Ishamael to the Darkness surrounding him.  &#8220;As if there were two of him he seemed to dwindle and grow larger at the same time.&#8221; I consider the wording here to be extremely significant, and a result of the last of the DO&#8217;s essence fleeing from Ishamael, combined with the severance of the TP.  The ball of darkness is not mentioned again, it has &#8216;disappeared&#8217;.  This might be so in either the TP attack scenario or my own.  <br /><br />Following this, Rand plunges Callandor into Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s chest and then he finds a man&#8217;s body in &#8216;the real world&#8217; once he returns from TAR.  For some reason, RJ gives us something of a description.   &#8220;He might have been a handsome man in his middle years&#8230;..&#8221;  This is interesting.  Ishamael was certainly not buried so close to the surface of the Bore that he was in some way &#8216;stuck&#8217; between the two; otherwise his body would be expected to have experienced an even greater degree of aging than we see here.  Just recall what happened to Aginor and Balthamel [TEOTW, ch.50 &#8216;Meetings at the Eye], and they were completely within the Bore the whole time!  Ishamael must have been imprisoned quite deep in the Bore, perhaps even deeper than Lanfear [TSR, ch.9 &#8216;Decisions&#8217;].  Only through the DO&#8217;s aid was he capable of managing the escapes he did.  Even then, he was drawn back to SG in time.<br /><br />Now the question remains, what happened to the black ball, this portion of the DO&#8217;s &#8216;essence&#8217;?  I believe if it were part of the DO in some way, it would have returned to SG immediately.  The DO can now make someone or something else his &#8216;avatar&#8217;.  Instead of a human, it choses a myrddraal, as it might prove to be both less difficult to influence and more able to withstand the DO&#8217;s direct &#8216;touch&#8217;.<br /><br />This hybrid creature becomes what we now call Shadar Haran.  Whether he is simply an augmentation of the &#8216;super-fade&#8217; that has been present since the beginning [The &#8216;Everlasting Fade&#8217; theory: http://wotmania.com/theorypostdbtheory.asp?ID=798&amp;Category=Shaidar] or a new creation is not the argument.  The combination has given rise to something new, such as the ability to create a deadening blanket that nullifies the One Power within an undefined range.[TPOD, ch.12 &#8216;New Alliances&#8217;]  SH can also channel black fire [ACOS, ch.40 &#8216;Spears&#8217;; end of the chapter], which is most probably some form of manifestation of the TP.  The sudden onset of this fire, accompanied by rage apparently for no reason is very similar to the TP surges Moridin experiences.<br /><br />  He also expresses a need to return to SG and a desire for freedom from such binding. [ACOS, ch.40 &#8216;Spears&#8217;; end of the chapter]  This might well be regarded as the DO&#8217;s desire, not just SH&#8217;s.  In fact, considering the last words of this chapter, this seems quite likely.   &#8220;Too long away from SG.  That tie had to be severed somehow.  With a snarl, it turned to find the edge of shadow that it needed.  The day was coming.  It would come.&#8221;  This is, I believe, a reference to TG and the opening of the Bore.  This is just as likely to be a mirror of the DO&#8217;s own desire for escape as anything else.  <br /><br />	There is also some similarity between SH&#8217;s need to return to SG periodically and Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s similar need.  Perhaps it was this portion of the DO that required episodic refreshment by returning to its &#8216;home&#8217;.  <br />The connection between SH and Moridin now becomes interesting.  It can be seen, from ACOS, [ch.20 &#8216;Patterns within Patterns&#8217;, ch.25 &#8216;Mindtrap&#8217;, ch.40 &#8216;Spears&#8217;and also TPOD ch.12 &#8216;New Alliances&#8217;] that the two work in tandem.  When Moridin can no longer watch Sammael, SH takes the task.  When SH releases Moghedien from the vacuole, she is transported to Moridin.  When Moridin sends his &#8216;pets&#8217; to recruit Graendal, it is SH who interrupts and subdues her.  <br />SH, having absorbed the bulk of the essence of what was once Ba&#8217;alzamon, he now has an intimate knowledge of, and perhaps even some form of mind-link with Moridin.  Some residue of the DO&#8217;s &#8216;touch&#8217; could well have remained with the soul of Ishamael, ensuring its return.  If this is so, then what Moridin knows, SH also knows.  Whether or not this works in reverse is yet to be seen, but seems unlikely if the DO maintains a strong and constant link to SH, broken only by SH&#8217;s periods of absence.  <br /><br />I regard SH&#8217;s presence in the beginning of LOC as evidence that Moridin is already active at this time, as it ties in nicely with another theory of mine [ The &#8216;Moridin=Taim&#8217; theory: http://wotmania.com/theorypostdbtheory.asp?ID=912&amp;Category=Moridin ].<br /><br />If there is a direct connection between the two, then we can assume they may well have been created/resurrected and recovered from these processes about the same time.  From the DO&#8217;s knowledge of what happened to Rahvin in the LOC prologue, it is entirely possible that either SH or Moridin themselves were present at some stage either during the battle or the aftermath, and learned what had occurred or else seen it for themselves.  Moridin might have been able to do this both in TAR, and also in his fancloth suit in the &#8216;real&#8217; world.<br /><br />In seeking to answer the question of where this ability of the DO&#8217;s might have come from, I have come up with two possibilities.  The first is that the DO has always had this ability, and has used it in the past, most likely with Ishamael in some, if not many of his former lives. This offers no new possibilities for exploration, except as to the degree of freedom this might have given the DO whilst It was still trapped within the Bore.  During Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s absence, the direct contact was more than likely severed.  When Ba&#8217;alzamon returned, the contact was renewed and the DO knew how his plans were shaping the world.  This holds regardless of where this ability might have come from.<br /><br />The second option I have been warned away from including by Green Gaidin, but I&#8217;m going there anyway.  This is very speculative stuff now (like most of the rest <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> ).  When Mierin and Beidomon opened the Bore to the DO, [ TSR, ch.26 &#8216;The Dedicated&#8217;] Beidomon was controlling the flows.  He was the first who came into contact with the DO.  Desperate for knowledge of the world, the DO extends his consciousness out into the world, encountering Beidomon first.  This is too much for Beidomon.  The circle shatters, and Beidomon is consumed, body and soul, by the DO.  Mierin remains and is able to communicate with It, now that It has learned not to be too forceful.<br /><br />This soul of Beidomons&#8217;, such as it was, is now part of the DO, but because it began as something of an alien nature to the DO, remains capable of separation from It and connection to another, a &#8216;host&#8217;, thus supplying a more direct link between the host and the DO Itself.  This explains why Beidomon was never again seen following the opening of the Bore.    The soul of Beidomon has become a kind of link to, and shadow of, the DO Itself, a kind of DO&#8217;s &#8216;Minnie-me&#8217;.  <br /><br />This being may well also play a part in creating the black wires connecting the male Chosen with the One Power.  During the transferal of saidin along these lines, the taint is absorbed by the DO&#8217;s essence within the wires.  Whether they are an extension of the DO Itself or his &#8216;avatar&#8217; is unknown.  If this essence of the DO can be split between SH and Moridin, then it can certainly be split further to be the conduit for the other male Chosen to access saidin.  On the other hand, they may well be some form of connection to the DO Itself.  <br /><br />Conclusion:  There seems to be some suggestion from the books to support the idea that the DO is, and has been for some time, capable of directly imparting an individual with some part of Its awareness and power, thus making this individual Its avatar and chief servant.  Whilst the DO was trapped within the Bore, this &#8216;touch&#8217; fell upon Ishamael, giving him some limited freedom while stealing part of his soul and eventually destroying his mind.  <br /><br />	Whether this same battle of wills occurs within the mind of SH is unknown.  His thoughts in ACOS [ch.40 'Spears'] could be interpreted either as his own desire to escape the DO/SG or the DO&#8217;s own desire to escape the Bore itself.  SH voices no thought of betraying his master, and continues to Speak as the DO Itself, the Hand of the Dark.  <br /><br />	Whether this means SH is the steed ridden by death in the Prophecies of the Dragon from the prologue of WH is also unknown.  If so, this could have dire consequences come TG, and even so, Rand may find himself facing both Moridin and SH, united, before he can confront the DO directly.  !!<br /><br />	Whether or not this &#8216;essence&#8217; could capture someone against their will, which seems unlikely to me unless the person was fairly close to SG or able to Travel, or involved with the shaping of Padan Fain into a &#8216;hound&#8217; of Shadow is unknown.  What might come if this portion of the DO tries to inhabit Rand or one of the other main characters during TG?  Perhaps we will find answers to these questions in the coming books.  <br /><br />	Flame away.  Let me know what you think, don&#8217;t hold back.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Well, the Beidomon bit does seem a bit far-fetched, though I'd personally love it if the issue came up later in the series as a side comment or something.  Also, I've never taken to the idea that Ba'alzamon truly believed himself to be the DO.  IMO, Ishy was just too smart too correct others' misconceptions.  But a lot of people disagree with me on this; and in any case, it wouldn't really hurt your broader theory.  Ishamael certain believed that he was on a completely different level than other Forsaken, being the DO's Eternal Champion and whatnot.  Maybe his belief had substance in what you say.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-07 13:12:52
subject: Slowing and Taim
body:
<p>This is just a quick thought that came to mind which no one seems to have noticed, but proves pretty much that Taim is one of the Forsaken. His age.<br /><br />When we first met Taim, he is described as 35 or so. Rand specifically thinks something like him holding off the taint for so long makes him useful. However, in the same book, Elayne and Nynaeve have a big conversation about slowing and channelers (in connection to the Kin). In the Age of Legends, both male and female channelers have extra long lives, so its safe to assume men slow as well. Therefore, for Taim to appear 35, he must not have held the taint off for 15 years or so, but for several decades at least. Even assuming he started channeling at 25( about the latest for a man, according to the guide), he still would have slowed by about 29. Given he is unbound by an Oath Rod, which effects slowing, he could easily have been channeling for over 100 years (Mesaana looks &quot;middle-aged&quot; and is a cool 300). If he had survived that long, he is definately connected to the DO, and the fact he first popped up, declaring himself the Dragon Reborn when the seals started to fail, is a pretty strong case for him to be Forsaken.<br /></p><p><b>Jeordam says:</b> Hmmm....it's been a while since I examined channeler ages and such...so here we go.<br /><br />The first thing that comes to mind is that men and women may not slow at the same rate or in the same way.  It's remarked that Nynaeve may just be beginning her &quot;slowing&quot;.  She's been consistantly channeling for what...3 years or so?  Ok, then so do men slow at the same rate, or do they also differn in themselves.  As in, they wouldn't slow until they actually hit their mid-30's, and then they would just...not age.  The abrupt nature of this idea would be consistant with what we know of Saidin.<br /><br />Just something for us to mull over.  Of course, it could just be an error on RJ's part....but...*nah*...that can't happen. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-09 11:44:00
subject: Where the heck is Malden?
body:
<p>For the last four books, Perrin has been wandering through the hinterlands southeast of the Mountains of Mist.  With all the twists and turns his journey has taken, it is difficult to say precisely where he is.  However, there are enough geographical references in the text to estimate his general position.  There is also a very interesting hint in Perrin&#8217;s description of the city of Malden, and some circumstantial evidence that dramatically narrow the possibilities.<br /><br />There is one important thing to keep in mind as this discussion begins.  It is impossible to avoid using the large maps at the beginning of the books as a reference, but while they are not entirely suspect, they are not wholly accurate, either.  First, the maps are very general in nature.  Second, they cover a very large area, so even minor errors will mean a correction of many leagues from the characters&#8217; perspectives.  Finally, small inconsistencies can bee seen just by comparing the two different maps in the books.  Therefore, it is somewhat better to rely on contextual clues for the characters&#8217; locations, rather than trying to plot a precise spot using the maps.<br /><br />Having made that disclaimer, it is time to look at the hints that Jordan has provided about Malden&#8217;s whereabouts.  First of all, Faile provides the reader with a basic idea of her present surroundings in chapter nine of CoT.  &#8220;It was easy to tell the gai&#8217;shain who had been inhabitants of Malden.  This far north in Altara they were fair rather than olive-complected&#8230;&#8221; Unfortunately, this quote is only partially helpful for two reasons, the first being that northern Altara cover a very large area.  The second is that her reference to the Altaran&#8217;s change in complexion is useless without knowing where that change occurs geographically.  If fair skinned Altarans lived ten miles north of Ebou Dar, it would be appropriate to say, &#8220;This far north people have lighter skin.&#8221;  To find Malden other text must be considered.<br /><br />Luckily, Perrin&#8217;s perspectives provide much more concrete information.  It is best to go back in time at this point to the beginning of WH, because if Perrin&#8217;s path can be traced after Faile&#8217;s capture as he follows the Shaido away from Abila, then Malden can be found.  Of course Abila must now be found, and the first chapter of this book provides a nice sense of where it lies in Amadicia.  &#8220;East and south [the wind blew], around the southern reaches of the Mountains of Mist, swirling across high walled Amador&#8230;East the wind howled over a desolated land&#8230;East, until the wind moaned a dirge over unwalled Abila.&#8221;  If this is combined with Balwer&#8217;s statement to Perrin in chapter nine of TPoD that Abila is about forty leagues south of Bethel, a southern Ghealdan town, Abila can be generally placed on a line east of Amador, not too distant from the River Eldar.<br /><br />Where does Perrin go from the outskirts of Abila?  He tells Dannil at the end of his POV in WH, &#8220;For starters, we&#8217;re Traveling forty miles due south.&#8221;  This decision proves fateful, because Perrin was not listening closely to Sulin when she reported in chapter 6 of WH that the Shaido were &#8220;Much nearer south than east.&#8221;  This indicates that the Shaido were not due south, but somewhat to the southeast, and might explain why &#8220;what he found were days of increasing pain as the scouts spread farther and farther through uninhabited wilderness without locating the slightest sign that anyone had been that way before, until he knew he had to retrace his path, frittering away more days to cover ground the Asha&#8217;man had taken them across in a step&#8230;&#8221; (CoT, ch 5) Eventually he found the Shaido trail again, &#8220;And Perrin at last turned east, at most two days south of where he had Traveled to the first time.&#8221;  The actual length of his delay is hard to determine, but it can be estimated as less than ten days since the setback is described as days, and not weeks, or even a week.<br /><br />&#8220;Since finding the Shaido&#8217;s trail again, he had Traveled no farther in one jump than the scouts could go and come between sunrise and sunset, and it was well that he had been caution, because the Shaido changed directions suddenly several times, zig zagging almost as though they could not decide on a destination.&#8221;  (CoT, ch 5) This description of Perrin&#8217;s trail is also lacking precision, but at least the daily distance Traveled can be estimated by using the fact that Sulin and the scouts covered forty miles from Abila to the Shaido trail in approximately twice the time frame mentioned in this quote.  Chapter five also indicates that Perrin &#8220;had crossed the Eldar into Altara&#8221;, but does not specify when he did that.  It was probably more than one day ago, however, because &#8220;those who follow the Lord Dragon found a town called So Habor&#8230;about a day back.&#8221; (CoT, ch 7)  In chapter eight of CoT, Elyas informs Perrin that &#8220;(the Shaido are) camped around a fair-sized town they took, in ridge country near forty miles from here.&#8221;  Finally, in chapter nine an argument occurs between Therava and Sevanna, because Therava wants the Shaido to move to some mountains east of Malden, and Sevanna scoffs because they are &#8220;days or weeks&#8221; away. The Hills of Kintara are the only geographical feature on the map that they could be referring to, and this further helps to zero in on Malden.  All of this disparate information provides a rough idea of Malden&#8217;s location, and a reasonable guess might be 150 miles east of the Eldar, roughly in line with Salidar. <br /><br />After all these quotes have been looked at, and thought about, it still doesn&#8217;t seem like Malden can be found with any kind of precision.  Why does all this matter, anyway?  There are three things from chapter eight of CoT that can help resolve both issues.  One comes from Sulin&#8217;s confusion about why the city was not built closer to the water in the lake, and the other two come from Perrin&#8217;s description of Malden: &#8220;It was not one of the great cities, not like Caemlyn, or Tar Valon&#8230;but still a city with high walls and towers and what looked like a fortress at the northernmost end&#8230;There seemed to be a road leading roughly south through the farms and another roughly north.&#8221;  The first important aspect of this quote is that Perrin thinks of Malden as a city.  A little later on he considers So Habor, with four or five thousand people in it, a town.  Now why would there be a city, even a small city, in the backcountry of northern Altara, built where obtaining water depends on an elaborate engineering project?  The last sentence of the quote provides the key information: Malden is a trading center on the Great North road that connects Ebou Dar to Lugard in Murandy!<br /><br />The implications of this line of conjecture are nothing short of astounding. .  In CoT Mat and his companions left Ebou Dar heading north on this same road with Valan Luca&#8217;s Grand Traveling Show! This would mean that there is a formidable force between Mat and the Band of the Red Hand, because the Shaido encamped in and around Malden have a large fighting force of algai&#8217;d&#8217;siswai that probably measures in the tens of thousands.  Young Tallanvor&#8217;s 15,000 Seanchan troops (CoT, ch 26) combined with Perrin&#8217;s roughly 3,000 soldiers may not be able to match the Shaido fighters, but Shen an Calhar would be extremely helpful in this respect, especially coming from Murandy and the north. <br /><br />There is also the problem of the Shaido Wise Ones, hundreds of whom can channel.  Tallanvor claims that the Seanchan have more than a dozen battle ready damane to add to the three Aes Sedai and six Wise Ones already with Perrin.  If Mat joins them as well, that would add another three Aes Sedai to the equation, not to mention two sul&#8217;dam and Tuon who just happen to have three a&#8217;dam to share between them.  However, even if all these channelers combine their efforts, they seem to be woefully outnumbered.  Of course, Aludra and her secrets about fireworks are also traveling with Mat, and while Perrin may not be a bell founder, he&#8217;ll certainly have more familiarity with the trade than Mat does. <br /><br />Perhaps Malden is on the Great North Road, and perhaps it&#8217;s not.  What is known is that Perrin is in an extremely difficult circumstance, and he is probably going to need more help from somewhere to effectively attack the Shaido.  Mat is traveling, slowly, north and at least drawing closer to Perrin with every league, even if he isn&#8217;t aiming straight for him.  In any event, Mat and Perrin have not been together since Perrin left Tear to go defend the Two Rivers against Whitecloaks and Trollocs.  That seems like a very long time ago, and their highly anticipated reunion should be pretty exciting.<br /><br />        &#8220;Different paths.  We&#8217;ve been sent down different paths before.&#8221;<br />	&#8220;Different paths be bloodied,&#8221; Matt grunted.  &#8220;I&#8217;ve had all I want of Rand, and Aes Sedai, shoving me down their bloody paths.  I want to go where I want for a change, do what I want!&#8221;  He turned for the door, but Perrin&#8217;s voice halted him.<br />	&#8220;I hope your path is a happy one, Mat.  The Light send you pretty girls and fools who want to gamble.&#8221;<br />	&#8220;Oh, burn me, Perrin.  The Light send you what you want, too.&#8221;<br />	&#8220;I expect it will.&#8221;  He did not sound happy at the prospect.<br />	&#8220;Will you tell my da I&#8217;m all right?  And my mother?  She always did worry.  And look after my sisters.  They used to spy on me and tell Mother everything, but I wouldn&#8217;t want anything to happen to them.&#8221;<br />	&#8220;I promise, Mat.&#8221;<br />	Closing the door behind him, Mat wandered down the hallways aimlessly&#8230;<br /><br />TSR, ch 13 &#8220;Rumors&#8221;<br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> What fun!  If Mat and Perrin met up, this would finally put them in a position to compare notes about the Finn and the Tower of Ghenjei, not to mention <i>finally</i> getting somewhere with Perrin's storyline.  Hurry, Mat, hurry.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-23 16:06:25
subject: Yet Another Theory on Mat Giving Up Half the Light of the World
body:
<p>I have read the theories on Mat giving up half the light of the world, and the more logical ones all seem to involve Mat losing one of his eyes.  While this does make sense, I noticed something while rereading some of the prophecies that gave me another idea that I haven't seen. <br />In the prologue to TEotW, one of the footers says:<br /><br />&quot;And it came to pass in those days, as it had come before and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Creator, saying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.&quot;<br /><br />The Creator is referred to as the &quot;Light of the World&quot; - thus, turning to the shadow could mean that you are giving up the light of the world, leaving the side of the Creator and the light.  In Mat's case, the Aelfinn said that he would &quot;give up half the light of the world, to save the world,&quot; so maybe it means that in some way Mat may have to partially join, or side with, the shadow in order to fulfill some greater good.  He is only giving up half the light of the world because he has not &quot;joined&quot; the shadow completely, just in order to further the cause for the light. We have seen throughout the series that this is something Mat is willing, although reluctant, to do (eg. leaving Tylin in a not too favorable situation, or killing women).  After all, Mat is a general, and a gambler, and he knows that sometimes duty requires you to do thinks you don't like, risks must be taken to win.<br /><br />What Mat will need to do for the shadow is another question altogether, and and a topic for another theory, but I imagine it will in some way involve Mat betraying Rand.  This would fit with his comments after the trip through the portal stone in which Mat told Rand that he would never betray him (It seems odd that Jordan would include this simply to keep us wondering whether or not Mat would ever do that).<br /><br />I realize that this does not in any way explain how Mat would be giving up &quot;half&quot; the light of the world, but I don't think that &quot;half&quot; necessarily needs to be taken literally.  Considering the vagueness with which the Aelfinn give their answers, (eg.- to die and live again - has the debate over whether Mat died already or even if it will be an actual physical death been settled yet?) half could be taken to mean &quot;part of&quot; as easliy as it could literally mean &quot;half&quot;.  Further, if I really wanted to nit-pick, I could point out that losing an eye isn't really giving up half the light, since a person's dominant eye processes more info (light) than the other, meaning neither really represents half - but I try not to be that anal. (Interesting how I have the nerve to make that claim yet include the point anyway)<br /><br />I realize that the theory is a little thin, but like I said, I haven't seen it anywhere else, and with 1.5 years till book 11 I just thought I'd throw something out for people to chew on.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> After sojourning in limbo, the theory mysteriously reappears. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/blush.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-24 10:22:54
subject: Chronicles of Barthanes Death
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<p>Barthanes&#8217; murder has always been a little bit of a mystery to me.<br /><br />So briefly, I want to describe a new quote I saw that may or may not indicate another clue in his death.  This is a very subtle passage, so it may have nothing at all to do with the murder, but I wanted to at least alert you to the possibility.<br /><br />So here is the chronicle of his death:<br /><br /><i> Rand caught the top of the wall and pulled himself up.  Loial gave a low hsst and grabbed at his foot, but he jerked free and rolled over the wall, dropping inside.  <b> There was close-cropped grass under his feet;  he thought vaguely that Barthanes must let sheep in, at least. </b> </i> (TGH, A Message from the Dark)<br /><br />Rand jumps into the gated structure around the waygate.  He notices that the grass is cropped shorter under his feet.  As a shepherd, he thinks of sheep.<br /><br />But as a theoryposter, I think of something else: gateways.      There is simply no way that sheep were let into that mini walled in-structure.  And as far as I know, Trollocs do not eat grass.  I wonder what this clue means.<br /><br />My first thought was gateways, but how?  Gateways slice up and down, and not out and around.  So maybe it really is just sheep.  <br /><br />Next quote:<br /><br />Rand pulls himself back out and over the walls. <br /><br /><i>  For a moment he thought he saw something move, heard a boot scrape on the brick walk, but neither was repeated, and he dismissed it as nervousness.  </i> (TGH, A Message in The Dark)<br /><br />Here is another Jordan clue.  Rand saw something that was very elusive.  He only saw it for a glimmer of a moment.  Interestingly, the sound also disappeared, so whatever it was did not seem to run away.<br /><br />I can only think of 2 or 3 possibilities of what it was he saw.<br /><br />1.  Ishmael suddenly hiding himself in some fancloth and halting.  He used inverted weaves so that Rand could not detect his channeling.  It was not a gateway; otherwise Rand would have seen a flash of light.<br /><br />2.  The gholam-- a gholam is an expert at slipping out of such situations.  We will shortly look at a couple of other possibilities that may implicate the gholam.<br /><br />3.  A gray man- It is possible that a gray man was near, and that Rand simply did not see him.<br /><br />These are the 3 possibilities I see.  Let us continue the analysis.<br /><br />In the next chapter, The Wheel Weaves, Zera tells Thom about the manner of Barthanes&#8217; death:<br /><br />&quot;He is dead.  His servants found him this morning, torn to pieces in his bedchamber.  the only way they knew it was him was his head stuck on a spike over the fireplace.&quot;<br /><br />This is a very violent death.  It had to be performed by someone with superhuman strength: either a Forsaken, or a gholam, or possibly a Trolloc (though unlikely, for how would a Trolloc slip through all Barthanes defenses?).<br /><br />To me, this knocks Slayer out.<br /><br />Let's compare Barthanes&#8217; death to Fel's.  Here is the description of Fel's death:<br /><br /><i>  When Idrien came to Fel's study later, she stared at what was piled none too neatly on the floor beside the table.  It took her a moment to realize what it was, and when she did, she fainted before she could get a scream out.  However many times she heard of someone torn limb from limb, she had never seen it before. </i><br /><br />Very, very interesting!  Both Barthanes and Fel were torn into pieces.  And not only that, they were both killed in Barthanes&#8217; manor (where Rand made his school).  Finally, Idrien has heard of this several times before!  From when?  Was it just Barthanes&#8217; death, or was someone else killed in this way in Cairhien?  <br /><br />One last superficial similarity I can create is between Barthanes&#8217; death, and Tylin's death.  Both had their heads torn off.  This is just a very superficial observation, but I wanted to point it out.  (However, if both were killed by gholams, it seems that they were likely killed by a different gholam, since Sammael controlled the gholam in Ebou Dar, and he was not yet released from the Bore during TGH). <br /><br />Basically, we are left with a lot of hints, but no real answers.  It seems that there is a very good possibility that Barthanes was killed by a gholam, but we cannot be certain.  <br /><br />However, as I showed in my quotes, there clearly was something lurking around Barthanes&#8217; manor the evening of his murder.  In my estimation it was probably either Ishmael or the Gholam.  Lanfear is an outside possibility, but that murder doesn't really seem to fit her style.  <br /><br />We know that Sammael controlled the gholam in Ebou Dar.  It is still hotly debated whether Sammael's gholam was involved in Fel's death, however.  Most of us think that it was Ishmael who ordered Fel's death.  There is also a chance that it was Demandred for a variety of reasons.  <br /><br />1.  The first is that Ishmael was apparently dead during this part of the story, and that we did not see him again until ACoS.<br /><br />2.  The second is that Demandred was apparently quite active during LoC, but we don't know exactly how.  Demandred had an active interest in creating chaos, and therefore Fel's ramblings may have been of interest to him.  Note that Demandred was also a noted scholar of his time and may have had some interest in philosophy.<br /><br />3. Demandred very quicly understood Rand's scheme to cleanse the taint in WH.  Could any of this had to do with Fel?<br /><br />However, if it was the same gholam that killed both Fel and Barthanes, then it was not Demandred who commanded the gholam to kill Fel.  We know this because Demandred was not around yet in TGH.  <br /><br />If we could figure out how Barthanes died, then we could figure out quite a bit more about the storyline, and how many gholams are out there, and who is commanding them.  At this point, we cannot get enough resolution to close the case.  <br /><br />Therefore, I think it would be a good RJ question to ask who killed Barthanes.  <br /><br />My best guess would be that he died either by Ishmael's or by the gholam&#8217;s hand.  And if it was the gholam, then it was probably Ishmael that was commanding it.<br /><br />Lastly, note Idrien's comment about how many times she had heard of someone being ripped limb to limb.  How many times has this happened before?  If it had happened a number of times before, it was probably similar to the situation in Ebou Dar, where everyone thought a serial killer was out.<br /><br />Just some observations and food for thought.<br /><br />This has been a message by your Emergency Theory Provider.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Might not the close-cropped grass be due to lawn care?  Rand might not have all that much experience with that either.  If I were the lord of the manor, I wouldn't let the area around the Waygate to get grown up too much.<br /><br />Also, on Idrien's comment, it occurs to me that <i>I've</i> heard of people being ripped limb from limb often . . . but I doubt it has ever actually occurred anywhere nearby and/or recently.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-25 10:09:52
subject: Moiraine WILL Return!
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<p>Many people have wondered whether or not Moiraine will return to the series. I&#8217;d like to  offer up two pieces of proof which I feel show beyond a shadow of a doubt that she <i>will</i> return.<br /><br /><b>Proof #1-</b> <i>(The part that everyone already knows.)</i><br /><br />&quot;Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead.&quot;<br />-The Fires of Heaven (300-301)<br /><br />This suggests to me that Thom is definitely going to save Moiraine somehow, somewhere (although not necessarily from the doorway ter'angreal). Since nothing Thom did <i>before</i> Moiraine fell through the doorway could be seen as fulfilling this vision, it seems logical that we will see her again in the series.<br /><br /><b>Proof #2-</b> <i>(The real clincher.)</i><br /><br />Although Moiraine journeyed through the doorway in Tear to get her three answers, we never actually find out what her questions (or the answers) were, but some hints are dropped here and there. She gives us the absolute proof that she'll return to Thom while trying to convince him to escort Elayne and Nynaeve to Tanchico, and it seems likely that her certainty is based on something that she learned on the other side of the doorway:<br /><br />&quot;I <i>will</i> see you again. You will survive Tarabon.&quot;<br />-Chapter 17, The Shadow Rising<br /><br />Since Moiraine is bound by the three oaths, she obviously cannot lie. Even Thom acknowledges to himself that somehow she KNOWS that they will meet again.<br /><br />Moiraine will return!</p><p><b>Lauriana Sedai says:</b> I like it. It's short, it's sweet, it proves (IMHO, anyway) that Moiraine will be back. <br /><br />While it's possible to debate whether the vision of Thom retrieving Moiraine's stone really proves anything concrete, it seems unlikely to me that Moiraine would have made the comment about seeing him again unless she was certain. <br /><br />She couldn't have been lying since she was bound by the Oaths, and  Moiraine just doesn't seem like the type who'd say anything with such certainty unless she had proof. <br /><br />I'm convinced.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-04-26 19:37:33
subject: Shadowspawn on the loose
body:
<p>We all know how Jordan likes to sneak in plotlines with little fanfare. Such as the ghost of Maringil that the maid mentioned seeing when running around saying Dobraine was dead. So, here follows an obscure reference from COT, chapter 23, for your reading pleasure: <br /><br />&#8220;You&#8217;re back then, are you?&#8221; The best of Browns did have a way of stating the obvious. &#8220;You wrote a paper on animals of the Drowned Lands, as I recall.&#8221; Which meant that Verin had; Nesune recalled everything she had ever seen - a useful skill, if Cadsuane had been sure enough of her to make use of it. &#8220;Lord Algarin showed me the skin of a large snake he claims came from the Drowned Lands, but I&#8217;m convinced it is the same as I observed. . . .&#8221; Verin glanced helplessly at Cadsuane over her shoulder as the taller woman drew her away by her sleeve, but before they were three steps along the corridor, she was deep in discussion over this fool snake.  COT chapter 23  <br /><br />What can we tell from this? Nesune sees the (presumably shedded) skin of a 'snake', that she thinks she has seen before, and wants to discuss with Verin. Where did she see the snake before? And why did she add the qualification &quot;claims&quot;? <br /><br />Perhaps the snake Nesune, who is from Kandor originally, saw or thought she saw was in the blight, and not a snake but rather a Jumara, or what Sammael laughingly refers to as a worm. Hmm, but a shedded skin, while not conclusive, minds one of the skins left behind before the transformation of butterflies. <br /><br />&quot;How sad for you.&quot;  Again that faint smile.  He had found something more than playthings and pretties.  &quot;On the other hand,&quot; he went on, &quot;think how awful it would have been to open a box and rouse a nest of cafar, say, or a jumara, or one of Aginor's other little creations.  Did you know there are jumara loose in the Blight? Full-grown, though they'll never transform now. They call them Worms.&quot; (Sammael to Graendal, LOC ch 23)<br /><br />Was Sammael lying to Graendal about the jumara never transforming anymore?  A distinct possibility.<br /><br />&quot;He wondered what she would say if she ever discovered that he had manipulated her as deftly as she had manipulated so many fools in her time.  He would wager everything that she never saw his real purpose.&quot;  (Sammael regarding Graendal, LOC ch 23)<br /><br />Also, Sammael has made extensive use of other shadowspawn, such as fades and trollocs to attack the Stone of Tear (LOC ch 6), darkhounds (who attacked Moiraine and co. in Illian, TDR ch 44) and the gholam who went after the cache of *angreal in Ebou Dar (COS, ch 15).  Perhaps he was using them for another purpose and they were left to run about in the drowned lands after his untimely demise.<br /><br />Or perhaps they need dampness to transform, and at the time of his chat with Graendal, the world was in the midst of a drought.  That's why they are in the Drowned Lands, an abundant source of water.<br /><br />Just some possibilities.  Flame away !</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> My first thought was that maybe it's just innocent babbling, like so many Browns are described doing.  But on further reflection, I wonder if the babbling of Browns might not be one of the best place to look for &quot;clues.&quot;  The very fact that, as babbling, it definitely <i>isn't</i> a necessary part of the dialogue strongly suggests that there is some other reason for it to be there, foreshadowing being the most likely.  And one does have to wonder why the &quot;snake&quot; would, apparently, be so far away from its home, and why Jordan has been playing up Nesune's interest in topics of zoology.  (Or am I mistaking her for another Brown?  I do think she's the one.)<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-05-02 18:53:14
subject: Verin, her Identity, and the Oaths/Oath Rod
body:
<p>This subject has been hashed to death but I finally believe that some closure to some subjects has finally been found in Crossroads of Twilight.<br /><br />I believe it first came to light in the Path of Daggers that the Oath Rod cuts the lifespan of a channeler in half. By Crossroads of twilight it is pretty much clearly accepted that this is true. You swear the oaths, you live maybe perhaps 300 years instead of the 600-700 years you might live otherwise.<br />That being said, another affect of the Oath Rod is the ageless look. Which Verin has.<br /><br />The myth that channeling the One Power for a substantial amount of time is what gives you the ageless look has been booted out the window.  *BUZZ*  Thanks for participating, here's a door prize.   It is the Oath Rod alone that causes this affect.  This also ties in with Aes Sedai opinions of wilders.  It's possible the disdain they feel towards wilders prevented them from realizing the aging differences.  Or that &quot;wilders&quot; didn't have the fine-tuned control over the Power that Aes Sedai had and that is what made the ageless look.<br /><br />Now, we know that women who have been stilled and then Healed lose their ageless look and become young-looking again. They are simply returning to the age they would have looked if they had been slowing normally and not sworn on the Rod. <br /><br />If Verin were not held by the Oaths, why does she still appear ageless? Well, because she <i>is</i> still bound by the Oaths.<br /><br />With the assumption made that Verin is, indeed, still held by the Oaths made on the Rod, then a few other things can be assumed as well.<br /><br />1.  Verin has not lied.  I have read some fairly good theories on this page which explain the apparent lies that she made.  Let's face it. Verin's getting up there in years for an Aes Sedai.  She has gray in her hair, she's no new kid on the block when it comes to evading telling the truth when she wants to. (see &quot;Verin and Moiraine &#8211; The lies redux&quot; by TheUltimateReality.) <br /><br /><br />2.  Verin is NOT Corianin Nedeal.  Or is she?  <br /><br />If the Oath Rod cuts your lifespan down to around 300 years, and Corianne lived over 400 years ago, then Verin cannot be Corianin.  300 minus 400 equals -100 years old, folks.  Plus however many years Corianin was when she &quot;died&quot;.<br /><br />If by some chance Verin were Corianin, she would have had to cover a lifespan of at least 500 years.  That means being unbound by the oaths for a considerable length of time to live past the normal 300 years.<br /><br />It could be plausible in saying that perhaps Corianin was never bound by the oaths (somehow), and managed to slow normally, disappear, then come back as Verin.  However you run into the same problem with that as with saying Verin is not bound:  Corianin would not have the ageless appearance either and that would have been noticed by the other Aes Sedai.  They may not have known what it meant, but they would have noticed it.<br /><br />If Corianin disappeared for 200 years or so, and we assume that perhaps Verin is around 150 years old plus or minus a few decades, then perhaps, <i>perhaps</i>, Corianin stayed out of sight for maybe 200 years unbound by the oaths and returned to a normal slowing, thereby elongating her lifespan.  This allows for &quot;Verin&quot; to return to the tower, somehow sneakily binding herself to the Rod and living out the rest of her lifespan.<br /><br />Corianin was a Dreamer and as such could have Dreamt about the Dragon Reborn and blah blah blah, etc...  This could have given a reason for her needing to be present at the same time as the Dragon.<br /><br />Now, this whole mess of a theory depends on a few things.  <br /><br />1.  When a woman is removed from the oaths that she returns to normal slowing.  AND if she is rebound (and is older than 300 years) that she will not fall over and die once she swears. <br /><br />Egwene brings this topic up in CoT <i>somewhere</i> in the book; I haven't found it.  But it's there.  They simply don't know what will happen to, for example, one of the older  Kinswomen if they swear on the Oath Rod.  (similar discussions take place in the chapters &quot;A Chat with Siuan&quot; and &quot;What the Oath Rod Can Do&quot; in Crossroads of Twilight)<br /><br />2.  That Corianin/Verin realized the effects that the Oath Rod had on appearance and length of life. <br /><br />So far, no Aes Sedai that we know of has addressed the issue prior to Egwene/Elayne/Nyneave discovering the Kin and making the connection of the ageless look/lifespan to the Rod.<br /><br />We certainly know that Verin is a resourceful gal.  She could have figured it out on her own.<br /><br /><br />Other miscellaneous factoids:<br /><br /><br />1. Verin has more knowledge of the Portal Stones than anyone else (excluding the baddies).  The parallel realities of the Stones are related to Tel'aran'rhiod.  Verin/Corianin would certainly have an interest in them.<br /><br />2.  Verin also has all records concerning Corianin Nedeal.  Seems a bit suspicious.  Is it research, or just simply hiding the identity of her old life?  She also gives Egwene the ring ter'angreal for entering tel'aran'rhiod.  As a Dreamer, Verin would certainly know that Egwene had the Talent for it as well.  <br /><br />3.  No one really knows how old Verin is.  While it's not completely uncommon to be ambiguous about age as an Aes Sedai, for most Aes Sedai you can at least name an  age group or give an approximate estimation for age.  All we really have to go by is the fact that she has some gray in her hair, and that the readers know she has had a plan in the making for 70 years, denoting at least 90-100 years of age at least.<br /><br />4.  Verin has pretty much glued herself to Rand's side for a few years now; besides the small side trip with Perrin.  She seems to be very protective of him.  She has now <i>sworn</i> to him.  It started when the Amyrlin traveled to Fal Dara to meet the Dragon Reborn.  Who came with?  Verin. (think back to when I mentioned Corianin/Verin being a Dreamer and possibly Dreaming something about the Dragon)<br /><br />These all have connections that could lead to Corianin.<br /><br /><br />In conclusion, Verin is certainly more than she appears to be (duh).  Maybe the old idea that she really is Corianin Nedeal is, in fact, true.  One thing is for certain now, though:  Verin IS held by the Three Oaths.</p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> I agree that Verin is bound by the rod on at least one oath, whatever it/they may be.  I like the idea that Corianin was unbound by the oaths for a while and simply swore on the rod and came back as Verin.  Perhaps she was originally bound by them and removed the oaths for a number of years?<br /><br />How long exactly would she have been Verin though?  Recall when she visited Far Madding that Verin Mathwin has an order of exile hanging over her head.  When exactly would that have been?  Nice job, Keira.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-05-02 18:59:08
subject: Indo-European Archetypes and Perrin
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<p>I was looking up WoT names on an etymological website, and found that &#8216;Perrin&#8217; is descended from the name of a Russo-Slavic god, &#8216;Perrun.&#8217; &#8211; he is the god of thunder.  His sacred animal is the bull, he carries an axe or a mace as a weapon, and is bearded with dark hair &#8211; sound familiar?<br /><br />It gets better:<br /><br /><b><u>Indo-European Mythological Archetypes</u></b><br /><br />It has often been theorized that Perrin is based on Thor, and truth be told, the god Perrun is close akin to Thor of Scandinavian mythology.  However, it is better to see these mythological characters as different versions of the same archetype.<br /><br />In Indo-European mythologies, a &#8216;ring&#8217; of gods often arises*.  For example, there is the <b>God of Sky</b> (being Tyr in Scandinavia, Dyaus in India, and hypothetically Rand in WoT) the <b>Cultural Hero</b> (Greek Hermes or Hercules, Scandinavian Odin, and, oddly enough, Mat) the <b>God of Thunder</b> (Slav Perrun, Scandinavian Thor, and WoT Perrin) and the <b>Earth God</b> (Indian Rudra, Scandinavian Freyr, and Slav Veles.)<br /><br />Here&#8217;s some evidence:<br />The <b>Sky God</b> is a war god, and wields a sword.  This would appear to fit Rand.<br /><br />The <b>Cultural Hero</b> is a mounted warrior who wields a spear.  This would appear to fit Mat.<br /><br />The <b>God of Thunder</b> is a warrior who fights with an axe or hammer, who rides a chariot across the sky, and who often has a wolf as his assistant - Perrin undoubtedly has the God of Thunder in his heritage.  <br /><br />The wolf as his assistant would point to Perrin&#8217;s wolfbrother side.  However, this side is more of an expression of Perrin&#8217;s other influence, the God of Earth.<br /><br />It can be shown that Perrin is a complex blend of two archetypes from Indo-European mythology.  We can also draw some conclusions from deities representative of these archetypes:<br /><br /><b>Slavic Mythology</b><br />First, we focus on Slavic mythos, as I feel they offer the most striking parallels.  The best clues to Perrin&#8217;s true identity are here:<br /><br /><u>Perrun</u><br />Again, Perrun from Slavic mythology is a bearded, dark-haired warrior who wields an axe and a hammer, and whose sacred animal is the bull.  I don&#8217;t think I need say any more <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><u>Veles</u> <br />The God of Earth is a protector of animals and the lord of the Otherworld**.  This alone wouldn&#8217;t necessarily apply to Perrin, but take a look at the god Veles.  Veles is the god of nature, and of death. <br /><br />In some stories, there is a divine being known as the Wolf Shepherd, who leads the wolves.  He is not the biggest wolf, but is endowed with divine characteristics (IMO wolves are all slightly divine, in that upon death they reach TAR and are reincarnated - Perrin's divinity would be his being ta'veren and bound to the wheel.)  The old Slavic god associated with the 'Wolf Shepherd' myth is Veles.  <br /><br />Egwene&#8217;s dreams reinforce the idea of a Wolf Shepherd:<br /><i>And that dream of Perrin - with a beard - leading a huge pack of wolves that stretched as far as the eye could see.</i> <u>The Dragon Reborn</u> (290-291)<br /><br />Some minor points:<br />-Perrin&#8217;s stewardship of the wolves is part of his Earth role as protector of animals.<br />-Perrin's experience in TAR rescuing Faile and his experience in the wolf dream are part of his role as lord of the Otherworld.<br />-Veles was the keeper of wisdom (in keeping with Perrin&#8217;s ponderous way of problem-solving.)  <br />-Another East European incarnation of the God of Earth, Walgino, was the guardian god of cattle, and Veles also was often called the &#8216;cattle god,&#8217;  which is very similar to Perrin&#8217;s wolf name, Young Bull.<br /><br />Thus, it is logical to conclude that Perrin has almost as much Veles as Perrun in him, and it is therefore easy to conclude that Perrin is a blend of these two archetypes.<br /><br /><b>Indian Mythology</b><br />Indian mythology offers an interesting perspective on the progression of Perrin&#8217;s personality, and some hints of the Fourth Age.<br /><br /><u>Indra &#8211; The Thunderer</u><br />Indra was a pioneering deity in Indian mythos.  He was very powerful and warlike, and was the king of the Gods in early Vedic mythology.  His rage was legendary.  Indra was elected king of the gods following his battle with Vritra, a mighty dragon who had stolen all the world&#8217;s water for himself.  Indra, hearing of this deed, battled Vritra and split open his belly, allowing the water to rain down over the earth.  He is also depicted as breaking apart the greedy clouds with a hammer, forcing them to share the water with the earth.  <br /><br />Speaking objectively, it is easy to see how a group of people trying to create a home in unsettled India would look to a god who could bring rain and end drought, and stood between them and cruel nature.  Thus, Indra, who helps to shelter man, is a god of the pioneer.  Indra&#8217;s popularity waned in later years, which makes sense, as India became more settled, and Hinduism progressed in its worldview.<br /><br />The fact that Indra played such a great part in taming the wilds of India, and that half of Perrin is this same Thunder God archetype leads me to believe that Perrin is going to be the force that tames the chaos after T&#8217;armon Gaidon.  After all, who is to say that the world will be a great place to live in right after the Last Battle?  It stands to reason that Perrin will be the leader who will re-settle humanity after the climactic end of the Third Age.  Also, Indra didn&#8217;t use an axe to split the clouds &#8211; <i>he battered them apart with an hammer</i>.  Think about that..<br /><br /><u>Rudra &#8211; God of Nature (Earth God) </u><br />The foil to Indra&#8217;s bravado and weather-making was Rudra.  In ancient myth, he is the personification of the untamed wilds, wielding storm, wind, and sickness.  He was considered to be the god of death.  In later myth, he became simply the lord of animals and hunters.  Rudra finally became Shiva, one of the three gods of the Trimurti, the Hindu trilogy.  Shiva was called &#8216;the Destroyer,&#8217; and he rides a white bull.  Shiva also bears a third eye in the middle of his forehead, which is the eye of higher perception.  In my opinion, this eye represents the Earth God&#8217;s connection with Otherworld; if we apply this model to Perrin, the third eye may be related to TAR and the wolf dream.<br /><br />Remember the &#8216;ring&#8217; of Gods mentioned earlier?  The Earth God and the Thunder God typically form a break in the ring, as they are the only two gods that are in conflict.  This is pretty easy to see in Indian mythology, as Indra brings life-giving rain, and Rudra whips the earth with storm.  Some of Perrin&#8217;s internal conflict may result from being a mix of two warring archetypes from Indo-European mythology.  After all, Rudra destroys while Indra protects, Indra seeks out righteous battle while Rudra stays within nature - who wouldn't be a little conflicted?<br /><br />Now, you may say, &#8216;Destroyer?  That doesn&#8217;t sound like the Perrin we know,&#8217; and at first glance, you would be right.  However, Shiva, though known as a destroyer, also had the aspect of regeneration.  There is a balance of life and death, destruction and regeneration &#8211; hammer and axe?<br /><br />It is also interesting to note the progression of worship.  At first, Indra, tamer of nature and mankind&#8217;s warlike defender, is worshipped above all, and Rudra, bringer of storm, is reviled.  After some time, Rudra is seen as more benevolent, but still in not as favorable a light as Indra.  Finally, Rudra changes into a god who balances life and death and sees with higher sight.  I think we have seen much of this progression already &#8211; Perrin started off as an apprentice to a blacksmith (who better to tame nature than a blacksmith?) and  in fear of his wolfbrother side.  Now, he&#8217;s getting far more accustomed to the Earth God in him, and with his dual roles as military commander and rebuilder of the Two Rivers.  I think after awhile, Perrin&#8217;s going to come to terms with the duality of his nature, after which we will have a very wise and strong leader for the Fourth Age.  <br /><br />Also, remember that Indra has a very warlike nature &#8211; in the years after T&#8217;armon Gaidon, there may be great conflict in the world.  A strong hand and a willingness to fight will be necessary.  However, as Perrin begins to put things right, the Indra in him will fade, as cause for war fades.  He will assume more of the aspect of Shiva, and become a wise ruler.<br /><br />One last thing with regard to Indian mythology: <br />The Sky God (and theoretically Rand&#8217;s counterpart,) Dyaus Pita held a position similar to that of Cronus in Greek mythology, as the ruler of the world.  Interestingly, he also met a similar fate &#8211; Dyaus Pita was slain by his own son, Indra.  I am not sure what this means in the context of WoT.  Perhaps Perrin will assume leadership of the world and Rand will pass into a political &#8216;death.&#8217;  This does seem to be consistent with many of the posts regarding the vision linking Rand and a beggar&#8217;s cane.<br /><br />I&#8217;m going to mostly skip <b>Norse mythology</b> &#8211; the research has already been done, the Rand/Tyr, Perrin/Thor, and Mat/Odin theory has already been suggested in numerous forms, and I&#8217;m of mind to agree.  Suffice it to say that in Scandinavian myth, Odin is the Cultural Hero, Thor is the Thunder God, and Tyr is the Sky God.  This is, of course, is consistent with my theory <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The only archetype not mentioned is the Earth God, who in Scandinavian mythology is Freyr.  Freyr is the god of the sun and rain and bountiful harvest, and he is known as both a peaceful god and a brave warrior.  I see this as directly parallel to Shiva, who was descended from the god of nature, and nurtured a balance between destruction and regeneration.  Thus, I would suggest that Perrin/Thor should actually be Perrin/Thor-Freyr.<br /><br />(Also, I will largely ignore <b>Celtic/Arthurian legend</b> to avoid redundancy with other posts, and because these myths don&#8217;t seem as clear-cut to me, and I do have to study for finals at some point.)<br /><br />In conclusion:  <b>Perrin is a blend of two Indo-European mythological archetypes, the Thunder God and the Earth God.  We see evidence for this in his personality and his actions.  This dual nature allows us to draw conclusions about the progression of Perrin&#8217;s character, and his role in the Fourth Age as a rebuilder of society and a wise ruler.</b><br /><br />-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=-<br />* Note: these are just the three most prominent examples of Gods in the ring. I think that Sky, Earth/Thunder, and Cultural Hero are most emphasized in WoT because a trinity would suggest itself to someone who had studied myth and legend, like RJ &#8211; it&#8217;s such a pervading theme, and it just makes sense.<br /><br />There are others, of course, such as the Great Goddess, who marries the Earth and Thunder Gods.  Logically, this would point to Faile, who married the Earth/Thunder god Perrin.  Faile being a &#8216;Great Goddess&#8217; would be a debatable idea at best, although her temperament is reminiscent of Hera, wife of Zeus, in that she is used to being treated well, is possessive and jealous, and has a hair trigger temper..  Also, some elements in the ring may not have yet appeared, such as the Divine Twins, who are typically the children of the Sky God - could they possibly be <i>Elayne's babies??</i>  While I am inclined to think the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of this conclusion, all in all this remains to be seen.<br /><br />-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=-<br /><br />** Otherworld, as I have inferred from a number of sites, is not the Underworld, which would be connected with the dead.  Based on this inference, and on the context in which I found the word 'Otherworld,' I assume that Otherworld is identical or at least comparable to TAR.<br /><br />-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=-<br /><br />Flame away!  I found this online and was interested enough to string it all together - I invite anyone who has any kind of knowledge about this kind of mythology to comment.  I hope I have offended neither any Hindus, nor any scholars, I&#8217;m just a plain Joe, who, in his boredom, has armed himself with Google (a dangerous creature indeed..)<br /><br />All my info came from a few different sources online, and I can try and find them and provide them to you if you're interested on knowing where I found these points &#8211; I know of a few great mythology sites if anyone&#8217;s interested. <br /></p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Very well-researched and very well written.  It certainly expands upon and fits very nicely with the current knowledge base of everyone's favorite three <i>ta'veren</i>.  Fabulous job!  Five stars.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-05-02 20:04:23
subject: Why Mesaana is not an Aes Sedai
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<p>Reading the chapter &quot;A Mark&quot; again, I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that Mesaana isn&#8217;t hiding as an Aes Sedai in the White Tower.<br /><br /><b> Mesaana&#8217;s face </b><br /><br />In CoT, ch. 21, pg. 516, Alviarin sees Mesaana&#8217;s real face after Shaidar Haran arrives.  SH appears with his One Power negating aura, as Alviarin thinks in the scene, &#8220;the Source was gone!&#8221; But not only is the Source gone, Mesaana&#8217;s One Power disguise vanishes as well. Therefore we can be certain, Alviarin watches Mesaana&#8217;s real appearance. Furthermore, Alviarin thinks Mesaana is &#8220;a tantalizing familiar woman who looked just short of her middle years [...] but she could not match that face to any name&#8221;. <br /><br />She also notices that Mesaana&#8217;s face doesn&#8217;t have the ageless look. People have suggested that Mesaana used a disguise that gave her face the ageless look so that she could walk in the Tower as one of the Aes Sedai; e.g., Danelle (the most likely candidate so far). That must be wrong in my opinion. It can&#8217;t be that, by chance, Mesaana&#8217;s real face plus the ageless look is similar to the face of another sister like Danelle. Mesaana would have to have the luck of finding an Aes Sedai who is her twin or double. Really not very likely!<br /><br />On the other hand, if Mesaana were disguised with the face of an Aes Sedai in the WT, her real face could not be familiar to the Alviarin, who saw that face in &#8220;A Mark.&#8221; <br /><br />Furthermore, Mesaana had no reason to hide her appearance in the talks with Alviarin by using a light-and-shadow disguise.  Nor did she have reason to kill Alviarin, the head of the Black Ajah, just because she saw the Forsaken&#8217;s real face.  She definitely intended to kill her, as she explicitely said, &#8220;&#8230;she has been very useful...and now I will have to kill her...&#8221;  That Mesaana wants to kill Alviarin though she is useful shows that Alviarin learned something very important that may allow her to discover Mesaana&#8217;s identity.   <br /><br />Mesaana can&#8217;t be one of the sisters who were long away from the WT and now return. If she would play such a sister, we would have the same problem I wrote about above, due to the fact that Alviarin could not recognize Mesaana&#8217;s face in the &#8220;A Mark.&#8221;<br /><br />Mesaana also can&#8217;t create the ageless look on her face and just <i>say</i> she is one of this sisters who were long away from the Tower. There are several big problems with that idea. First, Mesaana had to find such an Aes Sedai looks a bit like her and get all needed information out of her: info about the WT, her Ajah, and her friends; how the Aes Sedai behaves and speaks; and just about everything else.  And she would need to keep all that information in mind in order to play the Aes Sedai so well that nobody notices the deception. I think it&#8217;s impossible, or at least too much effort. (Note that these points speak against Mesaana being an Aes Sedai who lives in the WT, too.)<br /><br />Besides, Mesaana can&#8217;t be sure that no one in the WT remembers the exact face and behavior of the sister she is playing. It&#8217;s especially risky since we know that some Aes Sedai are very observant. In such a dangerous place for Mesaana as the WT, the risk of being discovered is just too high for the Forsaken to play a sister with Mesaana&#8217;s real face. We know that Mesaana thinks that &#8220;gambling made her uncomfortable&#8221; (LoC, prologue, pg.69). Mesaana is no gambler; therefore, I believe she took the safe way and is not disguised as a sister.   <br /><br />The only problem is that Alviarin is certain that Mesaana is an Aes Sedai, even after she saw her appearance without the disguise. My explanation is that Messana&#8217;s dress looks too expensive for a servant but fits an Aes Sedai. Alviarin can&#8217;t imagine Mesaana hiding as something less than an Aes Sedai.  She forgets that high servants also could wear such a dress.   <br /><br /><b> Mesaana is a servant </b><br /><br />All this means that Mesaana is not a sister. Furthermore it shows that she has no disguise but lives with her real face in the WT. <br /><br />I presume the Forsaken hides as a high servant and not as a common worker, e.g. in the kitchen. <br /><br />The first reason, one I&#8217;ve already given, is Mesaana&#8217;s dress, which a common kitchen worker surely doesn&#8217;t wear. <br /><br />Also, if we look at the other Forsaken, especially those who hide in dangerous places (e.g. with many channelers), we see that they may very well mask themselves as servants and stay in the background. We see that scheme with Moghedien in Salidar as Marigan.  We also see it with Semirhage as Anath with the Seanchan (though Semrihage is a very high servant). <br /><br />It&#8217;s easier to manipulate if nobody really notices you as an opponent of equal value. That&#8217;s the reason why Alviarin thinks Mesaana&#8217;s face is familiar but can&#8217;t match it to any name. She never really noticed a servant&#8217;s face. Another advantage of being a servant is that Mesaana can learn everything about the WT without the pressure of pretending to know it already, as she must as an Aes Sedai. As a servant Mesaana must not talk with sisters and so is safe from making obvious mistakes in such talks.  The necessity of occasional conversation is a risk she would have as an Aes Sedai.<br /><br />If Mesaana is really a high servant, I assume she is something similar to Aran&#8217;gar/Halima, a personal secretary of an Aes Sedai. The Guide and LoC, prologue, pg.68/69, tell us that Mesaana was &#8220;a teacher&#8221; and saw herself as &#8220;a successful reseacher&#8221;. For this (and the other reasons above) we can be certain that Mesaana isn&#8217;t a common kitchen worker or something like this, but hides as a person with a more intellectual occupation. If that&#8217;s the case, then I presume the Aes Sedai she is &#8220;working&#8221; for is either Black (a la Delana/Halima) or under Mesaana&#8217;s Compulsion. Maybe that&#8217;s the reason why Danelle is described as dreamy?<br /><br />In any case, as a personal servant Mesaana would have enough independence (though not always) to learn and spy in the WT; she wouldn&#8217;t <i>really</i> need to work (as she would, for example, in the kitchen); and she would be quite secure. As a servant she is not in the direct view of the Aes Sedai.<br /><br />This explains why Mesaana can&#8217;t easily leave the WT when she wants to. In WH, ch.13, pg.318, Moridin remarks, &#8221;Mesaana is absent again?&#8221; I think Mesaana can&#8217;t leave the WT too often because that would risk revealing her identity. If she is really a secretary of an Aes Sedai, other sisters could wonder where the secretary stays when they meet Mesaana&#8217;s Aes Sedai. <br /><br />Mesaana taught Alviarin to travel so that the Black sister can carry out Mesaana&#8217;s orders outside the White Tower. To teach Alviarin Travelling was surely not a friendly act but one necessary to hide Mesaana&#8217;s identity.  Alviarin thinks, &#8220;the Chosen taught what she wished and nothing more&#8230;&#8221; (CoT, ch.21, pg.500).   From this, we have another hint that Mesaana is not an Aes Sedai, for a sister can leave the White Tower whenever she wants (as Alviarin proves with her long absence from the WT to carry out Mesaana&#8217;s orders).  A servant, on the other hand, even a Forsaken in disguise, cannot leave the Tower just any time she wants, as the absence of Semirhage at the Forsaken meetings indicates.  Mesaana&#8217;s absences could we be for the same reason.<br /><br />The idea of Mesaana being a servant is also supported by the passage about Mesaana in the Guide: &#8221;It has been said that she was always interested in real power, not the appearance of it. Appearances were never important to her.&#8221;  That means Mesaana doesn&#8217;t care if she gets to plays an Aes Sedai or just a servant. The only important fact is that she is able to manipulate and control the Tower, in particular if the Aes Sedai don&#8217;t realize it. If she could handle it better and more easily as a servant, Mesaana would disguise as one.<br /><br />Again, that&#8217;s the reason why Alviarin thinks Mesaana looks familiar but doesn&#8217;t know her name. Mesaana is just an unimportant person not really worth notice in Alviarin&#8217;s eyes, though she probably saw her &#8220;working&#8221; in the White Tower.<br /><br />Finally I don&#8217;t see why Mesaana should have two or more disguises (as a servant and as an Aes Sedai) as some people believe. It only makes the things more difficult for her and she gains no advantage by having two identities.   <br /><br /><b>Why it makes sense that Mesaana is not an Aes Sedai</b><br /><br />There are other reasons why it makes sense that Mesaana isn&#8217;t an Aes Sedai but a servant.<br /><br />We see that all other Forsaken who create new identities (e.g. Lord Brend, Dashiva, Anath etc.) usually don&#8217;t disguise as other people. If you think about it, it&#8217;s quite logical since it&#8217;s almost impossible to play someone so convincing that nobody becomes suspicious and notices you only wear a mask. Especially if you don&#8217;t know the person and his life well enough to play the role (and I doubt that you can learn <i>everything</i> by using Compulsion and torture). <br /><br />Also, it seems quite difficult to keep the Mask of Mirrors all the time. Other Forsaken use it only for short time (e.g., Graendal as Lady Basene).  Most Forsaken keep their real face after they created a new identity. <br /><br />Mesaana didn&#8217;t have the time to create a new Aes Sedai or Accepted identity. She is not longer than two years free from Shayol Ghul. We know it takes much more time to become an Aes Sedai (the Wonder girls are an exeption).  And that Mesaana created a new Novice&#8217;s identity is very unlikely. Alviarin thinks Mesaana looks like short of her middle years. New Novices are younger. We would have the same problems with Mesaana&#8217;s familiar face as mentioned above.<br /><br />As I&#8217;ve pointed out, another good reason to pose as a servant is that you aren&#8217;t really noticed as a servant. Even Alviarin imagines that Mesaana must be an Aes Sedai. <br /><br />Finally, we don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s possible to hide a part of your One Power strength. So far we have only learned that you can hide the ability to channel completely (e.g. Semirhage or Moghedien). Osan&#8217;gar, who obviously couldn&#8217;t hide his ability to channel as the Asha&#8217;man Dashiva, doesn&#8217;t hide even a part of it, though his Forsaken strength could have made Rand suspicious. When Rand awakes after Fain wounded him in the woods, &#8220;Dashiva held almost as much [Saidin] as Rand could have.&#8221; (ACoS, ch.41, pg.712.) This strongly indicates that it&#8217;s impossible or at least difficult to hide only a part of your One Power strength the whole time. <br /><br />If this is true, then Mesaana, who is stronger than any Aes Sedai, can&#8217;t hide as a channeler in the White Tower for just that reason.  Her strength would give her away.<br /><br /><b>Who is Mesaana?</b><br /><br />I must admit I still don&#8217;t know who Mesaana is exactly.  I don&#8217;t know the name or identity of her alias. I believe the character she is playing is quite new to the Tower, probably a secretary of an Aes Sedai.<br /><br />In any case, due to the evidence presented in this theory, we can rule out all channelers in the White Tower as Mesaana&#8217;s identity. Mesaana can&#8217;t be any of the Aes Sedai who were the most likely candidates so far: Danelle; Tarna Feir; or the Aes Sedai Semirhage tortures, Cabriana Mercandes (though Cabriana is actually in the Blue Ajah and just because of that, Mesaana can&#8217;t disguise as her in the WT after Elaida&#8217;s coup). <br /><br />Considering my points, we can concentrate on other people in the White Tower and perhaps find Mesaana&#8217;s alter ego this way.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


