# w_theory

created: 2001-02-20 00:00:00
subject: Nynaeve Post Tarmon Gai'don
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<p>It is my theory that, imediatly following the last battle, Nyneave will retire from being Aes Sedai and become the leader of the Kin.  Reasons for this are: <br /><br />1. She does not want to take the three oathes because they shorten life span and I beleive she will get out of it if she can. Egwene say's that the oath rod might be used to remove the oaths and I beleive something to the affect was said that it could be done once an Aes Sedai retires.  <br /><br />2.  She has never liked Aes Sedai or Aes Sedai ways and I don't think she'll stay in that role any longer than she has to (Tarmon Gai'don.)  <br /><br />3. I think that the Aes Sedai after Tarmon Gaidon will be similiar to the way the maidens are now.  Only those who choose to be Aes Sedai will be Aes Sedai.  To support this we have Egwene's anouncement that every woman who can channel will be part of the tower but not neccesarily Aes Sedai.  Of these people not connected are the Wise Ones, the Windfinders and the Seanchan equivalent.  With all of these groups not being Aes Sedai, it would take some motivation to want<br />to be Aes Sedai, some reason to want to be Aes Sedai. The reason:  Aes Sedai will be the Elite, the best of the best. And like so many Elite groups, it will have rules.  I think it's highly possible that one rule would deny marriage to Aes Sedai (much like the Maidens.)  This would serve the purpose that all Aes Sedai aare committed wholly to the tower without any distractions. Those wishing to marry must leave the Aes Sedai and Join the kin.  Also we have Egwene as Amrilyn with her Aiel influence that could bring this to pass.  <br /><br />4.  Egwene has a soft spot for people she can trust, and appointing an old freind to lead up the Kin is hardly a stretch (if that turns out to be within Egwenes jurisdiction.)  <br /><br />5.  Nyneave wants to settle down with Lan and she can't do that as Aes<br />Sedai, the tower will always be trying to call upon her to do her duty.  <br /><br />6.  Nynavea had a fondness for the knitting circle back in the Two Rivers and she once said that the Kin reminded her of it.  This is my<br />first post although being an avid reader for years, re-read x3, so I hope I'm not way off base. <br /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> But...(I like playing the counterpoint)  RJ has described Nynaeve as becoming more and more Aes Sedai-ish.  I think she is trying to fill the shoes Moiraine left when the connection was lost between her and Lan.  She feels like Moiraine is an enemyu of sorts and is trying to be just as great as she was to Lan.<br /><br />But, that has nothing to do with this topic.  My belief (and I stress that strongly) is that Nynaeve will become an Aes Sedai and like it, although after TG, the Aes Sedai loftiness will be lost.  POssibly, nynaeve mught become the Keeper of the Chronicles?  Sheriam just doesn't fit, and she's under the influence of a bad guy.  <br /><br />My views.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-21 00:00:00
subject: Mat and Tuon Married?
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<p></p><p>I must believe that Mat's statement "She's my bloody wife" has some significance to Seanchan tradition. But I can't believe Mat and Tuon are now married. It could mean, since the statement was made in front of so many Seanchan witnesses, that according to their traditions, they are now betrothed. I also believe that since making the statement Mat is accorded some protection from the Seanchan. Maybe as a betrothed to one of the Blood, he must be protected by the Blood. Something like that. </p><p>But I can't believe that Mat and Tuon are now married. So far throughout the series Robert Jordan has not made the fulfillment of any prophesy or dream or anything so simple. There must be a huge dilemma for the Seanchan in this situation. My speculation as to what the dilemma is: </p><p>A)  The Empress will certainly not want the heir to her throne marry someone who isn't Seanchan (and certainly not Mat). But, </p><p>B)  Since Tuon is now betrothed, according to tradition, she cannot marry anyone else unless her betrothed dies. Mat cannot be killed because according to Seanchan laws he must be protected, protected by the very people who want to kill him. And, </p><p>C)  If Tuon isn't married to her betrothed (as long as he's alive) she cannot become the next Empress. </p><p>The only reason I have for my theory is where Jordan is concerned, nothing is ever simple.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> Uhhh...nice logic. I think. Though my opinion is that RJ is simply being a prick, and doing something simply, when everything else he does is complex. Perhaps the threat of millions of angry fans swarming over his house convinced him not to make it long. But then, he was probably just getting bored of Matt. Which is a good thing. Only a few more characters to go....</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Ain't that last line of yours the truth!  I must admit that I don't believe that Mat and Tuon are 'married' in the strictest sense of the word.  When I read that line I thought Mat was referring to the inevitability of their marriage, since it was prophesied by the Finns.  Perhaps his comment did carry some weight with Seanchan custom and tradition.  However I think you're overanalyzing the situation just a tad.  All in all, it does give us something to think about though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-24 00:00:00
subject: Rand Blinded and the Role of the Horn
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<p>I believe the process of cleansing saidin has left Rand blind.  There <br />have been several clues that Rand will lose his sight.  The Fisher in Moridin's game was depicted with a bandage around his eyes, indicating blindness.  There have been several viewings and dreams which have shown Rand with a beggars staff.  He will use this staff as a blind man's walking stick.  The point which leads me to believe that he will lose his sight as a result of the cleansing is the fact that Min kissed his eyes just before he started the process.  This is an unusual gesture of affection for her.  I believe she knows,through a vision, that he is going to lose his sight as a result.<br /><br />Now this raises the question of to how a blind Dragon Reborn is going <br />to be able to defeat the dark one.  I think Rand is accomplished enough with the sword to be able to fight in some capacity even without his sight.  He may also be able to channel blind but not enough to win the last battle.  I think the last battle will be won by Rand dying and being called back with the Horn of Valere.  There are several points which lead me to this conclusion.  First of all, Jordan devoted an entire book to the aquisition of the horn (it must really be important) and since then it has just been rusting away seemingly forgotten.  The horn is obviously crucial to winning <br />the last battle, but I don't think calling back the dead heroes is enough to make it that important.  The series started out with Lews Therin as the main character.  I think he still is the main character.  Rand and LTT are the same person.  He isn't hearing a mad man inside his head, he's hearing his own voice from a different perspective.  In the last battle the two perspectives will become one, along with all the other lives Rand has lived.  The champion of the light will have the knowledge of Rand and LTT and every previous life.  The only way for this to occur is for Rand to die and be called back with the horn. Another point is Min's viewing that Alivia (the seanchan turned Aes Sedai) will "help him die" this indicates that he will seek death.  This evidence together points toward the conclusion that Rand will "die and live again" through the aid of the <br />Horn of Valere in order to win the last battle.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Rand being blind for the last battle would certainly screw up the outcome of the fight.  BUt we also have to consider Mat and Perrin. Perhaps there skills won't be needed, only to help guide Rand to do what he must do.  Min fews the ta'varen's sparks as an indication of how well they will do in the last battle.  When they are together, the sparks win.  It's possible that Mat and Perrin need to be there to fight the people while Rand does some really cool channeling blind.<br /><br />The fact that Rand will use a beggars staff indicates to me that Rand won't necessarily be on the up and up after the battle (which I believe he will live through)  I think he'll pull through, but end up an actual beggar.  <br /><br />My two cents.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-26 00:00:00
subject: Four Armies - Is Gawyn's the Third?
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<p>Elenia and Naene can pretty much be confirmed as the first two armies. But who are the other two? One I think is Gawyn's Younglings and remnants of the Queens Guards.<br /><br />Gawyn was last seen with less than 200 surviving Younglings. He originally had 581 who were "far along anough in their training", so there are more back at Tar Valon but unknown how many. Elayne sent 3 couriers by gateway (in the prologue) to, perhaps, two or three days riding outside Tar Valon. She believes they may have trouble finding Gawyn, but as he is outside there should be no problem finding him.<br />And Elaida would welcome him leaving.<br /><br />Gawyn is then faced with two choices: 1) stay outside TV 2) Go to Caemlyn and do what he was sworn to do - protect Elayne. How should he get there? 3 months ride or 4 days by boat to Aringall.<br /><br />When arriving in Aringall he may hear or see Elayne's 'troubles' and send the Younglings scouting to look for loyal Queens Guards. Mat in Maerone picked up 'some' ex-Queen Guards who were kicked out for being to loyal to Morgase. In WH Birgitte mentions Queens Guards still coming out of Cairhein. Perhaps Gawyn has quickly assembled an army. This may help even the fight as Pelivar and Co are 500 miles away in Nth Murandy. <br /><br />The 4th Army I don't know. But Halwin Norry is definetely worried that one of these armies are Elayne's Cairhenien supporters.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Lets ope these armies are all have good intentions with their group.  Otherwise there could be some serious masty stuff going down in Andor.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-27 00:00:00
subject: The Grave is No Bar to My Call
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<p>I haven't seen this mentioned before so I will go ahead and give my thought on this. Reading TGH I came across a few passages where they say that The Horn will follow the shadow. I know in the prophecies it doesn't link the Dragon and the horn together in any fashion, but I think the heroes of the horn will only follow the Dragon. <br /><br />Heres why: pg 661, His warhorse pranced, and he looked around, frowning. "Something is wrong here. Something holds me." Suddenly he turned his sharp-eyed gaze on Rand. "You are here. Have you the banner?" This lead me to believe that they follow the banner as well. Well if the shadow had the banner then they still would follow the shadow, but in the next few paragraphs Hawking spells it out. <br /><br />Pg 661-662 <br />"The pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters," Arthur Hawking said. "You are here. The banner is here. The weave of the moment is set. We have come to the horn, BUT WE MUST FOLLOW THE BANNER. AND THE DRAGON." <br /><br />So the heroes will come to the horn but they will only follow the banner and the Dragon. <br /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I haven't seen anything like this at all.  It's so nice to see something original, other than Cyndane=Lanfear and More Taimandred debunking, it's very refreshing.<br /><br />Getting to your theory, if the banner is a prerequisite to sounding the horn, then why state that the horn can be trurned to the Shadow in the first place?  Other than the fact that the Shadow would need the banner also, might there be some Evil Heroes?  Some Dreadlords or something?  It might be kinda of intertesting to see who the Shadow stood in awe of, aside from the forsaken of course.<br /><br />Then there is the problem of Mat stil be linked to the horn...or not...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-04 00:00:00
subject: Guaire Amasalan
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<p>Turnings or the Wheel and Rebirth<br /><br />In TGH Artur Hawkwing says to Rand.<br /><br />'I have fought by your side times beyond number, Lews Therin and faced you as many more'<br /><br />If they fought one another and yet know each other as the names of LTT and Artur Hawkwing then when did they meet?  We know they have met multiple times but was it in a different turning of the wheel?  Personally I think that Guaire Amasalan was LTT reborn. Lots of people dont like this idea but Ill explain.<br /><br />1. Guaire was named the 'Second Dragon'<br /><br />2. He was 'born into obscurity'.  Given his rise to power this qualifies as a taveren situation.  Remember what Loial said about taveren?  A farmer could end up becoming king. <br /><br />3. He was strong in the Power. The Dragon was definitely strong.<br /><br />4. He was a brilliant general as was LTT.  He was without doubt &lsquo;One of the great captains of the time&rsquo;<br /><br />5. He took over countries in a matter of months.  Darmovan was his within 6 months. Within a year he had Elan Dapor and Balasun too.  In the next three years he conquered Kharendor, Dhowlan, Farashelle, Shiota, Nerevan, Esandara, Fergansea, and Moriena.  Talmour and Khodomar were about to fall into his hands.  In addition the taking of Masenashar, Dal Calain, and Aldeshar was already well underway.  This and other information comes from Robert Jordan&rsquo;s World of WoT.  In case you dont have this these territories are the equivalent of  Arad Doman, Tarabon, Andor, Ghealdan, Altara, Amadacia, Tear, Illian, Murandy, Mayene, the lower parts of Cairhien and some unowned territories in between.  (Haddon Mirk, Kintara, Maredo, parts of the Black Hills)<br /><br />6. His taking of Darmovan was made possible by the arrival of the Black Fever at around the same time.  Coincidence?  Or maybe taveren at work? <br /><br />7. He conquered roughly half of the lands west of the Spine of the World.  More than Rand has now.<br /><br />8. He had a 'compelling prescence' as did Artur Hawkwing.  It was said that you could feel the pattern weaving around Hawkwing just being in the same room.<br /><br />9. He never publicly addressed a body of people but yet tens or even hundreds of thousands flocked to his cause.  He had them in the palm of his hands.<br /><br />10. He 'jarred the world to its foundations' and &lsquo;shook the pillars of heaven&rsquo;.  Sounds like more taveren descriptions.<br /><br />11. 30 Aes Sedai were in the Stone of Tear when it was beseiged.  Aes Sedai here at all is unusual but 30 is unbelievable.  Taveren odds maybe?  Amasalan knew the Prophecies of the Dragon but he did not conquer the Stone.  This was a sign that it was not yet time for the Last Battle. <br /><br />12. Rioting mobs of Dragonsworn in towns not even under his control.  Just as in tFoH and WH.<br /><br />13. Was 'consistently matched' by Artur Hawkwing, the strongest taveren since the AoL.  If it were not for him Amasalan wouldn&rsquo;t have been stopped.  Then again if it weren&rsquo;t for Amasalan, Artur Hawkwing would never have acheived his Empire.  And this Empire was crucial in fulfilling some of the Prophecies.  Without the Seanchan who can say what would have happened?  It all fits together nicely.  And who better to start off the whole thing than the Second Dragon.<br /><br />14. Unfortunately he was captured by an unknown amount of AS.  If I could find out how many there were we could compare that to Rand's capture and LTT&rsquo;s PoV. <br /><br />15. Once captured there was an attempt to free him by two forces from the previously conquered nations.  Sound familiar?  To make it even worse Bonwhin, the Amylin Seat was only other Amyrlin raised from the Red until Elaida.  The two Amylins have similar personalities and Elaida keeps a reminder of Bonwhin in her study.  History repeating itself?<br /><br />16. It matches what Artur Hawkwing says about facing LTT in TGH.<br /><br />17. The third face that Rand keeps seeing may be Guiare Amasalan. Amasalan had dark, deep-set eyes and a mesmerising gaze.  I think that this matches the face but I cant find the reference!<br /><br />18. OK it never says that Guaire was taveren anywhere but it says that almost nothing is known about him.  The evidence however points to him being taveren and I may also point out that there are never any references to LTT being Taveren (Try finding some!!!)<br /><br />19. He had an extensive knowledge of the Karetheron Cycle. He could have found this anywhere but with all the other facts I think that he had inside information.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> It certainly is a possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-05 00:00:00
subject: The Building of Manetheren
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<p>In order for Perrin to raise a New Manetheren needs to join The Two Rivers, Ghealden, Nth Altara and Baerlon. He has the first, almost has the second, but how is he to get Northern Altara?<br /><br />This is one of three reasons I believe the 'Mounted Army' are Nth Altarans.  The second reason is Mat in Ebou Dar hearing rumours from Merchant Guards about "dozens of armed gatherings to small to be called armies in the heartland of Altara". This rumour would have taken up to a month to reach Ebou Dar as the 'heartland' is some 500 miles away. (This was also before Tylin went away for a week). This I think is 30 nobles and 300 armsmen (9,000) who have now gathered and are following the Shaido to get some 'payback' for the various (78 still missing) 'Sept' damage caused by the Shaido. The third reason is according to Uno the Whitecloaks initially numbered 10,000. After various disasters they would not number more than a few thousand. Plus why would they be heading south anyway?  So as Perrin has to 'Travel' more than once to catch the Shaido I think he will meet up with this army and get their fealty because of Rand. (Like he did with Alliandre). This only leaves Baerlon and there you have Manetheren.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, your logistics sound about right.  And it is a feasible possibility.  I think eventually all of Randland *for back of a better term* will have to back Rand, and by extension either Mat or Perrin, before Tarmon Gaidon.  The one problem I do have with your theory is that national boundaries of 1000 years ago do not necessarily equate to having the same boundaries today.  For example, Israel of ancient times had more than double the land mass of its modern day counterpart.  So I don't think it is necessary for part of Altara to swear fealty to Perrin in order for Manetheran to be raised.  But it is an interesting possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-05 00:00:00
subject: The Headless Weiramon
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<p>We've all known since TGH that there was a Tairen High Lord at Bors Darkfriend meeting with Ishamael. Since then many High Lords have rebelled or died - with Gueyam and Maraconne yet to come. But Weiramon has stood out. Especially since his conversation with Gedwyn and his 'fly trap' with Rand and the Seanchan.<br /><br />Now Cyndane has decapitated a bearded man in WH. I know beards are a fashion in Saldaea and Illian, along with Tear. But listen to this guys description:<br /><br />Darkfriend<br />Important Man (powerful)<br />Fool<br />Babbler<br />Untrustworthy<br /><br />Only one man comes to mind when all these words are put together - Weiramon.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I would mostr certainly like to see Weiramon dead and gone, nd whether CYndane or Rand did it, I think it would be a good deed for the entire continent.  <br /><br />If this is true, though, then what has Weiramon done behind Rand's back, being a Darkfriend?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-06 00:00:00
subject: Dawning of a New Era
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<p>Elayne is going to have twins, a boy and a girl.  In one of the books it says that there are a pair of heroes of the horn that are twin boy and girl.  The girl has a white mask, and the boy has a black mask.  It also says that their birth heralds the dawning of a new Age.  I think that the most likely time when an Age will turn is during or after Tarmon Gaidon.  In the prophecies it says that the day of the Last Battle will dawn twice.  Once for mourning(Rands death), and once for birth(the twins).  I think that Rand will die, yet somehow live.  Maybe he won't even be the Dragon Reborn anyore, just Rand Al'Thor.  Im pretty much positive that Elaynes twins will be born on the second day.  The whole white and black mask thing matches up with the white tower, and sane black tower.  If it this is all true, then Tarmon Gaidon is right on our doorstep.  About 8 months away(book time), if Elayne is a month into her pregnancy.  Im expecting the last 3 books that RJ set as a minimum to be packed with action.  RJ's response in a CNN chat to the question of where have all the trollocs gone was.  "They're coming".  What about the Borderlanders deserting the blight to come south?   The Seanchan about to lay siege on Camelyn?  The new sane Black Tower?  The siege of the White Tower?  There are so many unresolved things that the Last Battle must be closer than expected!</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> That would be cool if Rand's kids will be heroes of the Horn.  But what did the two twins do?  Did they set order?<br /></p><p><br />Another question, why aren't twin births more apparent in WoT? 1 out of every 89 births are twins, why don't we see more?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-07 00:00:00
subject: Competition to Marry the Daughter
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<p>As we know, the competition to be the Empress's Heir is very aggressive. So would the competition to marry the Heiress be any different? Tuon commanded Lyda to 'Fortell' her future. This was described as 'cryptic' and would have the Blood 'chattering behind their hands about her fate' if they heard.  Lyda would have described Mat as 'The Fox'. (Mat's Fox Signet Ring, Fox Battle Memories, Fox Medallion, Talmanes Banner is a Black Fox, and even Thom was known as the Grey Fo<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> But the reason Tuon has Lyda beaten was that she said Tuon would have to chase him. This is VERY insulting for a woman as powerful as Tuon. She would have been literally expecting men to grovel at her feet.<br /><br />Tuon meets Mat, finds him attractive as she grabs his chin and moves his face for a better look. Her voice goes from 'demanding' to 'murmuring' when talking to him. She thinks 'Is this the man Lyda mentioned'. She looks for a sign and checks his neck scarf, embroidary of his cloak, then pauses on his Fox Signet Ring, with 2 Ravens, surrounded by 9 moons. She then trys to buy him. Tylin says he is a free man and Tuon immediately makes friends with her by calling her a sister. This is to get closer to Mat. She then tries to get his interest by constantly glancing at him then walking away.<br /><br />Mat fails to chase her. She even has a look at Mat & Tylin's bedroom. Finally she makes up a lame excuse to get Tylin away from him. Mat still doesn't chase her. She hears the rumours that Mat is leaving and trys to knock him out. But she never showed aggression on her face. In fact was delighted that Mat could fight so well. She only gets angry when Noal manhandles her, which has probably never happened in her life. She shows 'scorn' when Mat says to 'Leave her in the stables'. But when he decides to take her with her she smiles.<br /><br />So this is why I think Lyda's Fortelling said she would have to catch him. Not the other way around. This is why Tuon smiled at the end. She realises she has to chase him. But she would eventually win and marry him.<br /><br />An interesting side-question is Tylin knowing the name DotNM from her letter in ACOS, then saying when Mat was leaving "That's the trouble with having a pet fox. Sooner or later it remember it is a fox".</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> For some odd reason, I don't remember Tuon mentioning a person named Lyda.  Odd...<br /></p><p><br />Anyway...Both Tylin and Tuon had to chase Mat, only Tylin was more aggressive in her hunt for the "fox."  Tuon is much more subtle, her actions stirring confusion into Mat.  I realy like these two as a couple, but all I have to say is, let's see some HAIR on that woman!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-07 00:00:00
subject: Another Theory On His Blood On the Rocks
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<p>Prophecy states that "His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation." Its possible that "his blood" in fact does refer to Rand's blood as the sacrifice. But what if it isn't? Following upon these lines, I have come up with two theories on other possible sacrifices, one pre-Winter's Heart and one post-WH.<br /><br />We know that the Aiel has prophesised that "He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dries twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live." Egwene has also dreamed of Rand "pouring water on sand." The Aiel are the People of the Dragon: they are related to him by blood. They are, in fact, his blood...It could be that the Prophecy of the Dragon refers to the Aiel sacrificing themselves at Shayol Ghul to make Rand remember himself after he falls into madness (remember the Aiel histories anyone?), so allowing the Last Battle (the battle between Rand and insanity/chaos) to be won. In doing so, they are destroyed until only Aviendha's children are saved (i.e. the remnant). This theory is the one I favour.<br /><br />Or "his blood" could in fact refer only to his and Aviendha's children. His babies are sacrificed at Shayol to remake the prison of the Dark One (it could be because the lives of the most innocent is worth the most sacrifice). This theory came about due to Min's viewing of Aviendha's babies having some problem, but this evidence is circumstancial at best and I do not fully support this.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The talk of Rand's blood has been a common issue now a days...These are all plausible theories, and here are the scenarios I see could happen, according to the Kartheon Text...<br /></p><p><br />1.) Rand actually dies, as he thinks, at Shayol Ghul.  This is what seems to be the popular theory in Randland (baaaad name...)<br /></p><p><br />2.) Rand is injured badly, his blood spilling from his wound.  He's heald by Nyn, and there is a happy ending.  This is what I always thought the prophecy meant.  <br /></p><p><br />3.) Rand's kin could die.  One of his kin would be the Aiel, as you stated, or even Galad, who is his half-brother.  Maybe Galad has a bigger part than originally thought.<br /></p><p><br />And 4.) One of Rand's children...Elayne's or Aviendha's babies are born on the slopes of Shayol Ghul.  <br /></p><p> <br />All of these are possible scenarios, and I anticipate an action packed ending no matter how it ends.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-07 00:00:00
subject: A Broken Crown
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<p>Perrin has known since TSR that Faile is Tenobia's cousin. But when he asked Faile in LoC what the Broken Crown was Faile made a vexed noise, smelled upset, and changed the subject. So obviously it isn't the Saldaean Crown or she would have just told him.<br /><br />Davram Bashere said "I suppose Zarine told you about my estates. All about the Broken Crown" Davram Bashere is Lord of Bashere, Tyr and Sidona. So Bashere is also a city or town as well as a family name. Saldaea was previously known as Basharande<br /><br />Putting all this together I think the House Bashere were the rulers of Basharande which went to war against Hawkwing and was destroyed. The Crown of Basharande became known as the Broken Crown.<br /><br />I think also Faile has hopes that Perrin will one day will become King of Ghealden, Nth Altara, Two Rivers and Baerlon and raise the New Manetheran.<br /><br />And she just happens to have a crown for Perrin to wear. Fulfilling Min's vision.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Perrin does seem to have aspirations of being a King.  The fact that Faile has a Broken Crown skeleton in her closet could mean good things for Perrin.   <br /></p><p><br />I don't remember Mr. Bashere saying anythinig aboput a Broken Crown to Perrin...hmmm...I should re-read again.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-07 00:00:00
subject: Norse to WoT
body:
<p>Let's look at the similarites between a few norse gods and our three ta'veren. One Rand is an excellent swordsman< and his signia seesm to be the sword. He is vry brave and doens't cower of fear from anything, just like the God Tyr.  Unlike, Tyr who lost his ride hand, Rand as not.  But, Min had a vision of rand with a bloody hand and a white hot iron!  Any connection?<br /><br />Mat wears a brod-brimmed hat and a spear like weapon, just like the god Odin.  Odin carries a spear. Gungnir, and wears a brod hat so to hide the fact he lacks one eye.  Egwene a Min both have visions of Mat with an eye on a balance scale, and lets not forget, gives up half the light to save the light.  Gives up half his vision to save his life perhaps?  Odin sacrificed his eye for wisdom, and let's not forget Hugir (thought) and Munin( memory). Mat paid the price of his life in order to gain wisdom, and on that spear he has are two ravens!  And consequently, Odin had Nine Daughters, errr...Daughter <br />of the Nine Moons?  Just some simple deductions and comparisons.  Oh did I mention Odin was also the god of gambing!!!<br /><br />AS for Perrin, he is in a world all his own, but I believe he was orginally drafted from Thor!  Perrin doesn't weild thunder, or drive a chariot pulled by goats.  Their are a few connestion between the two though,  One is they are both big and strong men.  One weilds Miolnor, a hammer with half a handle, JUST like a "blacksmith's" hammer.  Oh, they are both described as having curly hair, and a very impressive beard!<br /><br />Now to further drive home my vague illustrations, we turn to the days of the week.  Tyr had many names, one being Tui.  Odin was also named Woden. And Thor was also Thur.  Each of them had days named after them, Tui's Day (Tuesday), Woden's Day (Wednesday), and Thur's Day(Thursday).  These are three god that Jordan modeled his three main characters from.<br /><br />On a minor note, there is the goddess Freya in asgard.  She id the God of love and many other things, but those are of no consequence in this comparison. It is said she goes to some battle to lead the Valkyries and helps to choose Heroes for Valhalla!  It seems she is to go to battle whenever her husband, not Thor, went too.  She was said to be very firece and extremely jealous, especially one time when a beaitiful hawk, a frost giant in disguise, tried to seduce her husband Odur, not Odin.  Well, to drive home one last comparison, <br />Freya had a cloak made of Falcon feathers that could turn her into a falcon and fly free.  If you don't see that comparison to Faile, Zarine, just yet your blind.  Berelain is trying to seduce Perrin, and Zarine being Saldean will follow Perrin into battle.<br /><br />Now, as pointed out in Exerda's submission it seems that Padan Fain represents the hound Garm!  He made many excellent comparisons, and one was Garm was killed by Tyr, but Try was mortally wounded, this was at Ragnorak, literally meaning Twilight of the Gods, or in German.....Last Battle.  He said the mortal wound Rand recived could be one in the same, or maybe Rand(Tyr) will kill Fain at Tarmin Gaidin but then Fain will mortally wound and kill Rand instead of the Dark One.  You know one of those endings where he defeats Shai'tan and comes of of the Pit of Doom smilling because he didn't die, <br />then Fain pops out and strikes at Rand.  OR maybe not.  But thank you for listening to my many ramblings, any questions on Norse or Celtic Mythology.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Jordan certainly has drawn from Celtic myth, but not solely from it.  It's been mentioned that he has used some King Arthur myth, even Inuit myth I believe.<br /></p><p><br />But I am confused about somethiung *as if I am ever NOT confused*.  What does the days have to do with affirming this theory?  It's extraneous material.  Anyway, nice job, I always like to see some connections to the real world.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-07 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine's Rescue, Mat's Eye, and Olver
body:
<p>This theory brings together a few different elements.  <br /><br />First - What the heck is Olver's purpose?  Every character in the series has some kind of talent or eventual purpose.  We all know that Olver's favorite thing to do (besides fondling women) is to play Snakes and Foxes.  Now the obvious:  Snakes = the "snakey people" and Foxes = the "foxy people".  It's been drilled into our heads that there is no way to win at Snakes and Foxes (and apparently no way to best the Finns).  What Olver is going to accomplish is to figure out a way to win (be it legit or through cheating).  His revelation is going to make Matt smack himself in the forehead and say, "Why didn't I see it before!"  Figure out how to beat the game and you've figured out how to beat the Finns.  And of course he will realize that he needs a light, some iron, and a musical instrument.  Thanks to the little ditty you sing before you play the game.<br /><br />But everyone believes that Moiraine is dead, so how are they going to know to rescue her?  Well, they don't.  Matt has it out for the Finns and he decides to go there only to teach them a lesson.  OR, he goes there for some, as yet to be imagined, reason pertaining to Tuon.  But once there he will discover Moiraine is alive.  Thom goes with Matt because he is in love with Moiraine and is holding on to the small hope that she IS still alive. (But then again, there might be something in that letter she wrote to Thom that makes him go with Matt.)<br /><br />At least Matt and Thom will be involved with Moiraine's rescue, though I wouldn't rule out the whole bloody gang going.  They will probably need Perrin or Birgitte to show them the way to the Tower of Genjei in Tel'aran'rhiod.  (Or, Olver does somehow possess Gaidal Cane's soul and he will lead them to the tower himself.)  But they will also need either Rand or Egwene to open a doorway to get them into Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh (since those are the only two who know how to do it so far).  Unless someone comes up with a different way we haven't been told about yet.  Which will probably be the case since both Egwene and Rand are going to be very busy.  But anyway, what transpires in Finnland is going to result in Matt losing his eye.  Matt's eye will serve as "payment" to the Finns (the eye on the balance scale thing).<br /><br />And that's how Moiraine gets rescued, Mat looses his eye, and Olver earns the space he's taking up in the books.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Out of all the characters in the series, olver has to be the BIGGEST waste of space.  If he ISN'T Gaidal Cain, then what purpose does he serve?  He's just some vagabond kid that got "adopted" into this rough-and-tough gangof soldiers, fondles, and acts all childish.<br /></p><p><br />Oh, by the way, did you notice I don't prefer Olver.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /></p><p><br />But in all semmi-seriousness, wat purpose DOES Olver have?  My thoughts would be that he would be a great soldier, and maybe an amazing General, but I never thought he'd be a part of the Rescue of Moiraine. It is a possibility, but I thought Moiraine was already out of Finnland (the special Damane that Tuon has)<br /></p><p><br />Nice Job!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-16 00:00:00
subject: More thoughts on the Cleansing
body:
<p>I believe that Rand, contrary to popular opinion, did not move the taint into Shadar Logoth.  I believe that he, using the Choedan Kal, created a new taint on saidin, from the evil of Shadar Logoth.  Similarly to Rand's wound, the two taints fought each other and ended up destrying themselves thus leaving the source taint-free.  This explains why Rand did it near Shadar Logoth.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The whole scheme of what Rand did with the taint is unknown, but we do know that it is clean.  And thus, this is where theories enter.<br /></p><p><br />If Rand did put a new taint on Saidin, how could they tell if Saidin wass fully clean.  If the new taint of Shadar Logoth replaced the old Dark One Taint, they wouldn't know what it was like, being so accustomed to the DO taint.  It would be clean of the DO taint, but they wouldn't know what the Shadar Logoth taint feels like. <br /></p><p><br />It's a great idea, but we still need evidence on what exactly he did.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-16 00:00:00
subject: Padan Fain's Role
body:
<p>I think that at the Last Battle (and I believe it will be the LAST) the DO will have Rand cornered somehow and Fain seeing this, will attack the DO as he hates Rand so much that he wants to kill him himself.  So, rather like gholam, Fain will inadvertantly save Rand, and the world.<br /> <br />I hope that the evil in Fain will somehow be destroyed and he will turn back to the light, but perhaps this is too much to believe.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> If this were to occur, Fain killing the Dark One (if that is possible in itself), then he would face off against Rand in a fury.  Fain can't deflect weaves of the One Power like Mat's ter'angreal, so he would be susceptible to <i>saidin</i>.  Rand could kill him like that, almost in an anti-climactic way.<br /></p><p><br />The idea of Fain turning to the Light wouldn't be a promising thing.  I think Fain would still be crazy from his hatred for Rand that being turned to the light wouldn't matter.  He'd still be crazy Ol' Fain.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Personally, I despise the thought of Fain inadvertantly assisting Rand.  This is because it bears so much resemblance to the end of LOTR.  Rand and Fain's relationship already closely mirrors that of Gollum's with Bilbo and Frodo.  To have Fain aid Rand accidentally, thus causing the Dark One's demise would be nothing short of a LOTR ripoff.  I have too much respect for RJ as an author to think that he'd do that, though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-16 00:00:00
subject: Still Linked
body:
<p>This is a kind of kooky theory of mine (not like we've never seen any kooky theories before) that I'm hoping works out.<br /><br />1)Whoever blows the Horn first after finding it is thereafter linked to the Horn until he or she dies. As long as the hornsounder is still alive a new link cannot be made with the Horn.<br /><br />2) Mat blew the Horn to fight off the Seanchan in ThGH. Mat is linked to the Horn.<br /><br />3) Mat dies in TFofH, killed by the Eelfinn (or was it the Aelfinn) afer going through the ter'angreal. Anyhow, the important thing is that he technically died and once he's dead a new link can be made.<br /><br />4) The Horn hasn't been seen (at least not to my knowledge) again after Verin took it to the White Tower along with Mat in TDR.<br /><br />This is where my theories gets weird.<br /><br />5) Rob Morris pointed out that although the Horn's heroes will fight for the Shadow and his minions when called by shadowspawn, if Lews Therin or Rand al'Thor are at the battle with the Dragon Banner then they HAVE to fight for the Dragon. Artur Hawkwing - "We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon." (pp 661-662) TGH.<br /><br />6) Since the connection with Mat has been broken, the Horn will sound for anyone who finds it now. The Horn is currently kickin it at the White Tower (where Mesaana, Alviarin, and some other Black Ajah just happen to be also). And Alviarin seems to be running the show through Elaida and she's the HEAD of the Black Ajah.<br /><br />7) The Horn will be used by the Dark One, darkfriend, Forsaken, or some Dreadlord, but at the battle where it is used, Rand will be there with his Dragon Banner and the Heroes (and Heroines) will fight on the side of Rand and the Light. Whether or not it will be the LAST Battle (or even if the Last Battle really IS the LAST LAST battle) remains to be seen.<br /><br />Dude, Mr. Jordan hurry!!!!<br /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> When Artur Hawkwing mentioned the Banner being another prerequisite, I thought it was odd.  But now I think it's a safeguard so that if it DOES fall into the wrong hands, the Banner will be a denial for the Heroes to come to a Darkfriend.<br /></p><p><br />If it is used by a Darkfriend, once revealed as such, this denial of use by the heroes would be an added blow, and kind of humourous.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-19 00:00:00
subject: Making Babies
body:
<p></p><p>A light hearted theory here people.  Under the recent news of Elayne's that she is pregnant, I have been thinking about Perrin and Faile!</p><p>Now, Faile's mother expects at least 6 children (book 6).  Faile and Perrin got married book 4 ( or was it five).  We all know about Faile, I quote <i>"I feel as forward as a Saldaean farmgirl at Harvest"</i>.  Considering how forward she is, and how happy Perrin is to oblige, I find it <b>very</b> suprising that Faile isn't pregnant.  As I like Perrin more than I do Faile, I propose this:  She cant have babies.  I guess this isn't much of a theory, more of a query. <img src="http://35.10.40.62/wotmania/images/wink.gif" /></p><p>Alternatively, Perrin and Faile have had a <b>lot</b> more time than Rand and Elayne, But Rand scores a direct hit the <b>first time</b>!  As much as it hurts me to say this there is a possibility that Perrin is firing blanks.  This could have dire consequences on Perrin.  His manhood is threatened and his macho edge is taken away, leading to a bloody death.  But I prefer believing Faile can't have babies.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Umm...ok...uh...Hmmm...erm...yeah, I guess. <img src="images/blush.gif" />  In all seriousness, though, your "theory" was an entertaining read.  However, I'm certain that due to its lighthearted nature it really doesn't need to really be scrutinized. <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-21 00:00:00
subject: Fain and the Dark One
body:
<p>If Fain is to attack the Dark One then it will make sense that the evil in the dagger could destroy the Dark One just like the taint on <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>On the theory of the Horn I just like to say that the heroes will come to the call of the Horn but it is never stated that they will fight for the caller of the Horn but only for the Dragon and the banner.</p><p>Thus the Dark One needs the Dragon to turn for him to be able to use the heroes of the Horn and in doing so have a clear win.  So as I see it the Dark One has to options:<ol><li>Turn the dragon and have sure victory.</li><li>Take the horn and make sure nobody blows it and thus taking the heroes out of the war and making his chances a lot better.</li></ol></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmmm...  I suppose I would have to read some of the relevant passages over again, but I do recall that the heroes didn't want to fight without the banner...  Is there maybe some banner of the Dark One that the heroes would follow if the Horn was blown by someone sworn to the Dark One?  Or would the heroes just sit there forever without the Dragon banner to lead them into battle?  Or maybe the Horn really can't be sounded to aid the Shadow?  It seems I'm more full of questions than anything...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-21 00:00:00
subject: Elayne's Embarrassment
body:
<p></p><p>In TPOD (ch.20: into Andor, page 399), Elayne is experimenting with<i>ter'angreal</i>. She experiments with using fire on a rod, and wakes up to discover she has done something embarrassing, but nobody will tell her what she has done. Then in WH (ch. 12: A Lily in Winter, page 299), Aviendha is urging Birgitte to take Elayne's activities with Rand as a "<i>fine joke</i>."  As they head for the <i>oosquai</i>, Birgitte comments she intends to "<i>get drunkenough to...well...to take off my clothes and dance on the table. And not a hair drunker</i>."  "<i>Min did not understand that at all, or why Aviendha stared at Birgitte and suddenly began laughting about it being a 'wonderful joke'</i>."  </p><p>This makes me believe that the joke is that Elayne did just this at some point in the past, and that the experiments with the rod seem the most likely time.  </p><p>Also of interest is when Birgitte is desperate to beat Elayne and pleadswith Aviendha to shield her, she whimpers, "<i>Two months</i>" (pg. 297), and offers to let Aviendha off her share in exchange for shielding Elayne. While this may not be because of the same event, I wouldn't bet on it...</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Good pickup!  I didn't pick up on that during my first run through WH.  Of course, it could just be some wacky Aiel humor that caused Avi to burst out laughing.  But I think we may have discovered what Miss Elayne did that fateful evening.</p><p>My only questions are these:  (1) Is this the real use of this particular <i>ter'angreal</i>, and if so (2) Where can I get my hands on one?  This little puppy would be sure to liven up any atmosphere.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-22 00:00:00
subject: Another World
body:
<p></p><p>No one has seemed to pick up on this obvious hint of a possible outcome.  Probably not certain, but RJ certainly would have to leave himself some room for further books.</p><p>On page 36 of The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time, it states, <i>"There are records of the people of the Age even transporting to other worlds, both among the stars and in other dimensions.  Portal Stones, activated by the One Power, allowed the users and any who accompained them to travel to other dimensions and worlds within the universe of the Wheel.  It is doubtful that Portal Stones were used regularly by any other than Aes Sedai, because skill and strength in the Power were needed to activate them."</i></p><p>This to me brings up the idea that somehow a group would start searching the other dimensions and possible worlds.  This search would most likely be lead by Elayne, because she has shown great skill with <i>ter'angreal</i>.</p><p>They would most likey search for help amoung dimensions and worlds that still retain some of the wonders from the Age of Legends.  Perhaps generals that are good with battles on a massive scale.  Perhaps channellers that know some of the lost talents.  The list is endless.  But this is definately a possiblility.  Maybe its just an token hint that won't be followed up on, but why would RJ spend all those chapters of Rand in other dimension in the GH?</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Unfortunately I've never read the Big White Book cover to cover, as I have yet to purchase it.  If the book does quote this, it is quite intriguing.  There are a couple problems I have with the theory.  First of all, RJ has said that the action would take place on the main continent and Aiel Waste.  If Shara and Seanchan precluded, I would certainly expect outer space to be also.  Secondly, the alternate worlds Rand visited in TGH were alternate paths his life could take.  RJ put that in there to show that despite Ishy's lying, the Dragon had <b>never</b> turned to the Dark One.  That would in of itself break the Wheel of Time.  Finally, the very nature of sourcebooks is to add some fresh stuff not found in the books.  If the BWB only contained content found in each books' glossary, it wouldn't be worth $35, would it?  I would be very careful before taking an offhand comment found in the sourcebook and applying that to books' plot.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-22 00:00:00
subject: Logain the Hero
body:
<p></p><p>I have not seen anything posted anywhere about this, and maybe that means I'm way off the wall, but I think Min's viewings of Logain's aura--blue, gold--meaning future heroism--tie in with Egwene's dream of Logain stepping over Rand's body, laughing, and then Rand's body crumbling away as if it were an empty shell.  The longer things go on, the more convinced I am that--okay it sounds really wild but what doesn't around here--Rand will "die" and Logain will selflessly "donate" his body for Rand to complete his destiny and fight the Dark One at the Last Battle.  What could be more heroic?  And Logain is one of the good guys, or at least he isn't one of Taim's and it doesn't seem too likely that he will be.  How could this happen?  Well, maybe in the World of Dreams? <i>Tel'Aran'Rhiod</i> is the perfect place for this.  Min's vision is of 2 men, one Rand, moving together and one of them dies.  Rand is really sick.  His wounds are not going away, even with cleansing the taint.  Remember after he was Healed, to the degree that the best in the business could do it--after the Fain dagger episode--and they said he wouldn't have much longer, maybe even months I believe it was.  He is getting dizzy even when he <b>isn't</b> holding <i>saidin</i>.  He is failing fast, even with Min around to keep him going.  Even Min's viewing of Aviendha's quadruplets--there's something "odd" about them?  Well, maybe they have dark hair?!  </p><p>So Rand shares Logain's body, with LTT and the third guy, maybe even with Logain still in residence.  Rand is used to sharing his brain, maybe it won't be so bad to have to move into someone else's.  What a joke that would be--no wonder he's laughing as he steps over his old body in Egwene's dream.  He'll have pulled off a real scam on the Forsaken and maybe given himself just the edge he needs for victory.  It will be quite a secret to keep, and almost everyone will have to think he's dead, but oh well, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. </p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> </p><p>Wow!  That certainly is different!  I like how you tied all those viewings in.  You <i>almost</i> convinced me. <img src="images/wink.gif" /></p><p>However, I'm fairly certain that Logain's future glory will come as leader of the Black Tower.  I'm not yet sure who the third face is, but I'm not really convinced that it's Logain.  Still, it's a nice, original take on it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-26 00:00:00
subject: Olver is Not Gaidal Cain
body:
<p>I've heard people talking that Olver might be Gaidal Cain Reborn. I think this theory is wrong and my reason is simple. When the battle of Falme took place Gaidal Cain was one of the heroes called back by the horn. Olver being something like 7 or 8 would have already been born by then. While I can buy the shifting of time in T'A'R being an explanation for Olver being so old already, I can't accept that Gaidal's soul was in two places at once.<br /><br />Someone has mentioned Thoms comment in EOTW that the dead can be reborn or take a living body, but that don't fit either. All the information we've had so far indicates that the heroes are reborn through conventional means, not by possesing dead bodies.<br /> <br />I don't think that we're ever going to find Cain in the present day world. In my opinion the reason Jordan had him spun out again when he did was to get him out of the way before the big fight with Moghedien. If Gaidal Cain had still been around in Tel Aran Rhiod then he could have stopped Moggy from ripping Birgitte out of the world of dreams, and Jordan needed that to happen. Besides having Cain not show up has a neat way of showing that being a hero can sometime have irrevocable negative consequences. Birgitte will forever have to pay the price of losing her true love because she was there to defend those who needed her.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I whole-heartedly agree with you.  Gaidal is NOT Olver.  It just doesn't work out, the numbers don't add up.<br /></p><p><br />The fact that Jordan had to get Gaidal out of the way makes sense though.  But could even Gaidal save Birgitte from Moggy? Even though Birgitte awaits to be reborn in T'A'R, she didn't have the skill Moggy did, and she;s only lived in the Age of Legends.  I don't think Gaidal would or could make a difference.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-28 00:00:00
subject: Where's Our Favourite Sadist?
body:
<p>After the whole Taimandred fiasco, when Jordan quite obviously played with us, I was not as willing to go with this one but...  I think that Semirhage is Anath, Tuon's Truthspeaker. With the Taimandred, there was little physical resemblance, just mannerisms (and I still haven't read a decent explanation for his "so-called Aiel" comment, unless Demandred is controlling him and he is just copying, which would be an incredibly lame reason). But with Anath we have too many coincidences, physical appearance and leading comments from other Forsaken and Semirhage herself that all make me believe that Anath is Semirhage.</p><p>Firstly, coincidences:<ul><li>Tuon's old Soe'feia died unexpectedly about 2 years ago, which puts it around the time the Forsaken were released.  [Tuon thinking, "She could ask Anath, her Soe'feia, to administer a penance, but it was less than two years since Neferi's unexpected death, and she still was not entirely comfortable with her replacement." (WH, What A Veil Hides, page 323)].  Setting the cover for a Forsaken?</li><li>Tuon describes a penance from Anath, "she had asked her new Soe'feia to perform that service [give a penance] for her.... The woman had seemed almost tender about it, in an odd fashion, though she left her weeping for days, unable to don even a shift." (WH, What A Veil Hides, page 328).  The tenderness is intriguing.  Could it be our scariest sadist back on the job?</li><li>Anath dresses all in black.  Graendal thinks, "Not even Demandred dared suggest to Semirhage's face that she wore black so often because Lanfear wore white." (LoC , The First Message, page 56).  In WH her clothing is described: "Anath was standing by the railing, in unrelieved black silk" (WH, What A Veil Hides, page 326).</li></ul>Secondly, physical appearance:<ul><li>She is very tall.  Graendal thinks: "Semirhage stood taller than most men, though so perfectly proportioned that you did not realize it until she stood over you, looking down."  (LoC, The First Message, page 56).  IN WH Tuon thinks: "A slender woman, she would have been tall even for a man." (WH, What A Veil Hides, page 326).</li></ul>Finally, the thoughts of other Forsaken and of Semirhage herself:<ul><li>While torturing Cabriana, Semirhage thinks, "She did not like having to hurry. And to be called away from her charge; the girl was wilful and obdurate, the circumstances difficult." (LoC , Threads Woven of Shadow, page 141).  She might not like to hurry as torture is an art for her, but what if where she is staying is a place where her absence will be commented upon?  There are very few places where a Forsaken would not be able to channel and alter the memory of someone (just as Moggy did when she was pretending to be a servant of the Black Ajah and avoided her punishments).  But if she was in Seanchan, she could not channel freely.  Tuon certainly fits the description of her charge, nothing that we've read about her implies that she is weak willed.  As for the situation being difficult, where more difficult then on Seanchan or, worse, a Seanchan ship?  She could hide her channeling ability, but in either place channeling would be noticed, and on the ship it would definitely blow her cover.</li><li>During a Forsaken meeting, Demandred thinks: "He wished Semirhage or Mesaana were present ...  But it was difficult for Semirhage to attend these meetings." (WH, Wonderful News, page 313)  Again, the only reason Semirhage would find it difficult to attend would be if her ability to channel was somehow curbed, this points to Seanchan.</li></ul>As I said, I wasn't too sure of this one in the beginning, but after checking up, I'm pretty sure that we now know where Semirhage is - Anath.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, this is the second "Anath is Semirhage" theory to be posted since <i>Winter's Heart</i> was released, and almost everyone was agreeing with the first such theory.  But I thought this was another solid theory which lays out the proof very well.  Anyway, another good theory to add with interesting proof from <i>Winter's Heart</i> that Semirhage is currently posing as Anath.  Nice work!  <img src="images/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-31 00:00:00
subject: Bryne and Lee
body:
<p>I've lately noticed the following similarities between Gareth Bryne and General Robert E. Lee, CSA:<ol><li>Both ride a horse named Traveler. (FoH, An Old Pipe)</li><li>Both wear gray. (FoH, An Old Pipe, and mentioned elsewhere as well)</li><li>Both are highly regarded for their generalship (Bryne is one of the "Five Great Captains")</li><li>Both support Rebel causes (Salidar and CSA) against larger foes (Broken Tower & USA).</li><li>Both are men of fierce honesty, loyalty, and integrity (tracks down Siuan, Leane, and Min over broken oaths; keeping his word to see the rebellion through despite likely consequences).</li><li>Both are dearly loved by their men (ex-Andoran soldiers in Kore Springs were eager to drop out of retirement and serve Bryne again).</li><li>Both are older men with gray hair.</li></ol>I wouldn't put it past Jordan, a graduate of the Citadel (the Military College of the South) and resident of Charleston, SC, to have a place in his heart for Lee and to have consciously based the character of Gareth Bryne on him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I can't recall having seen this mentioned anywhere before, but I think it is an interesting (and likely) parallel.  I wonder if it will be possible to predict any future WoT happenings based upon this idea?  Hopefully this doesn't mean Egwene and the Salidar Aes Sedai will lose their bid to defeat Elaida and the White Tower Aes Sedai...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-03-31 00:00:00
subject: Visions from the Accepted Test
body:
<p>I have a theory that the visions of the future shown to Accepted when they enter the testing <i>ter'angreal</i> do come true, as least in part.  It is not their visions of the past and present (from the first and seonc arches) that will come true, but rather their visions of the future (from the third arch).<br /><br />For example, I do believe that Nynaeve's Accepted test vision of being Queen of a restored Malkier (restored from the Blight) will indeed come true.  As you know in other discussion threads, the name of her "Aes Sedai advisor" from that vision has recently entered the story line.<br /><br />I also believe that Egwene's vision from her accepted test will come to pass in some fashion. Specifically that she will have a Keeper of the Chronicles named Beldeine (this coincidence that a Beldeine is in Cadsuanes team has also been discussed in other threads. In Egwene's vision she will be held prisoner as un usurper in the Tower, and that Rand will be held in the Traitor's Court for trial but she and Rand will be rescued before being<br />stilled.<br /><br />In the final scene of <i>Winter's Heart</i>, Hamina ran into the circle composed of Daigian, Nesume, and Beldeine link in a circle with the young Asha'man Eben Hopwil. Now the people in this circle know that this "female" can channel <i>saidin</i>, the male half of the One Power.<br /><br />Recall that Beldeine is the name of the Aes Sedai who Egwene saw in her accepted test vision as her Keeper. Therefore Jordan is foreshadowing that Beldeine will be the one to recognize Hamima when she later hooks up with Egwene.<br /><br />I also project that Sharina (who is now with the rebels) will indeed become the Aes Sedai advisor to Lan as King of Malkier (as seen in Nynaeve's passage through the arches).  Remember when Nynaeve heard the name Sharina in <i>Winter's Heart</i> she was quite shocked.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It's times like this I realize I need to read <i>Winter's Heart</i> again...  Well, graduation is about a month away ( <img src="images/oh.gif" /> ), and then I should be in much better shape to get some reading done.  In any case, I remember thinking some of the same things when I was making my way through <i>Winter's Heart</i>, which seems like a very long time ago...  I do wonder how it would work out with Nynaeve being Elayne's Aes Sedai advisor, though - would she just quit the job and move to Malkier?  Would Lan approve or her having a job on the side, and let her commute to Andor?  Interesting questions, I'm thinking...  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-05 00:00:00
subject: The Way of the Coconut&trade;
body:
<p>Since the last six months have brought so many new people to Wotmania, perhaps the time has come to repost the truth about Narg, a singularly unique character in the WOT pantheon. As the only Trolloc given a name and the only one shown capable of mastering the intricacies of learning another language, he obviously has an important part yet to play. No other Trolloc has been revealed as possessing these capabilities. Thus we can conclude that he did not meet his untimely demise at Rand's hand in TEOTW. Grievously wounded, he somehow managed to survive. Gifted as he is with intellectual acumen (for a Trolloc) the lessons of his experience were not lost. Violence begets violence and an unsavory reputation can stand as an obstacle to efforts, sincere or otherwise, to initiate peaceful dialogue. As thoughts such as these began taking shape in Narg's formidable brain, comprehension as to the identity of the seemingly insignificant farmboy he sought slowly evolved. Narg began to study the Prophecies of the Dragon. Long ruminations on these cryptic words, combined with his own conclusions on the nature of violence eventually led to his epiphany: the critical importance of a return to the Covenant. But would the Aiel willingly renounce all that they were? And, if not, could another group take their place? Narg vowed to do whatever was necessary. So, he became the founder and prophet of a Trolloc school of pacifism based on the Covenant sworn to by the D'aishan Aiel in the Age of Legends. That original covenant was known, as we all know, as the Way of the Leaf. Referring of course to how even in death, the leaf floats gently to the ground, doing no harm. Unfortunately, while Narg's intentions were pure, in practice the Dedicated Trollocs at times inadvertently produced results that seemed at cross-purposes to their stated goals. This was due to simple clumsiness or just unfamiliarity with this type of conduct rather than any malice aforethought. Hence, their Covenant became known as The Way of the Coconut, for obvious reasons. How this society continued to develop and how Narg's son, Shadar Haran, enters the picture we will leave for another tale. <img src="images/baalzamon.gif" /></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I don't even know what to say.  Except possibly...  LMAO!</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> </p><p>LOL! <img src="images/biggrin.gif" />  Of course, this "theory" probably belongs in the Humor section, but here more people can enjoy the sacred truths of the Way of the Coconut&trade;.</p><p>I would like to point out for those that don't get sarcasm unless it's as subtle as a sledghammer, this "theory" is a joke.  It always has been.  I know so because the author is my father.  Read it, laugh at, but for Light's sake, don't take it too seriously.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-09 00:00:00
subject: No Power Needed
body:
<p><br />Once again this is to be posted as Lord Savaunt. By the way I can imagine that if you get as many postings from others as you do from me then you're quite busy. I can understand if it takes awhile to get this on the board.<br /> <br />I haven't heard anyone else say this yet, but I don't think Rand will be using the One Power very much if at all at Tarmon Gai'don. For the last 2 or 3 books Cadsuane has been at least thinking if not outright saying that Rand needs to learn how to be human again. He needs to laugh and to cry or him winning won't be much better than Shai'tan getting victory.<br /> <br />The Dark One is chaos and destruction personified, so to defeat him one would use creation. What is the omst powerful act of creation in any world? The gift of life itself, birth is the ultimate anti-thesis to death and destruction. So if the twins that Elayne will bear is born on the rocks of Shayol Ghul then that fufills the prophecy of 'His blood on the rocks' to fold. I am certain that Rand will do a great deal of bleeding at the great battle.  <br /> <br />In fact I would say that Aviendas children being born at the last battle would be an even more likely possiblity than Elaynes. This would coincide with Mins viewing that this former maidens children will have something odd and terrible involved in their birth. What could be weider than being born at the place where the Dark Ones ahs been closest to the world for thousands of years?<br /> <br />With all the Aes Sedai, Ashamon, Wolves, and light knows what else to expect at the last battle, the usage of Power will not be in low quantities by any strecth of the imaginations. All Rand will have to do is to keep his spirits and love of the world high enough to with stand the immense attacks of negativity and hatred by the Lord of the Grave.<br /> <br />So my thoughts are that Rand will be the winner not by using nearly godlike power, but by being human.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Well, you have to admit, using godlike powers would be handy. <br /></p><p><br />But I don't think Avi's kids will be born at Shayol Ghul.  My beleifs are with Elayne and her kids.  IMHO<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-09 00:00:00
subject: Sammael did it
body:
<p>Alright I was rereading The Fires of Heaven when i came acrossed this. There is a paragraph in the prologue that has Rahvin, Lanfear, Sammael, and Grendal all sitting around talking when Lanfear says 4 are dead and one has betrayed us. Then Sammael asks Lanfear if she was certain that Asmodean went over. She then says basically that she is and that it didnt take any courage to chose. Sammeal then says" if u were close enough to him to know all of this why did you leave him alive. You could have killed him before he knew you were there." to which she says I am not as quick to kill as you are. She also says that she didnt want to fight him with rand there . Then they all go of on how powerful rand is .My point is this Robert Jordan said that is was obvious this would deffinatly qualify it as obvious. He describes the way asmodean actually dies . I think Sammael already had a oplan to kill him as soon as he figured out where he was.<br /><br />I think that Sammael did not kill him directly thou i think that he sent slayer after him slayer could have gotten in and out of there thou tel'aron'riod leaving no body and no evidence . it also falls into the "YOU NO " thing . In winters heart slayer talks about how the forsaken knew him and beged to use him so that would show that samodean knew who he was and basically that he was toast.This would also say that sammael is asmodeans killer as well as slayers master. We know that sammael was telling the other chosen that he was nae blis and that in it of its self would probably convince slayer to help him out . so to some this up Sammael is not dead and is asmodeans killer.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Well, Sammael IS dead, and was most probably NOT Asmo's killer.  <br /></p><p><br />RJ himself said Sammael was toast, back in Shadar Logoth.<br /></p><p><br />At that time though, it might be possible.  I still think it's Graendal though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-11 00:00:00
subject: Tallanvor and Galad
body:
<p>Tallanvor takes off in the morning on his personal quest to save Morgase (bit of an idiot here). By the afternoon Perrin has Traveled 40 miles southeast. In order to catch the Shaido Perrin has to Travel up to another one hundred miles as Sulin believes they are days to the south. So for Tallanvor to catch up, Perrin would have to stay still for two days after his initial forty mile trip. I seriously doubt this.</p><p>So why did Jordan send Tallanvor off on his own. To die in the cold or to join another story line. I think the latter and who it may be is Galad. The remnants of the Whitecloaks are in the area after their various defeats and one of three things may happen.<ol><li>Tallanvor tells Galad of Morgase kidnapping and Galad is faced with "two rights." His oath to the Children and his love for his mother.</li><li>Valda hears of Morgase's whereabouts and sees her and Andor as a second chance for the Children. He heads south and joins the fray.</li><li>Galad has heard of a 'Witch' at Amador and her treatment. Puts two and two together and kills Valda and heads south.</li></ol>Options two and three would put Galad in contact with Berelain if Faile survives the rescue.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I'm not going to comment on which of these particular options I think is most likely, but I know that I really like the idea of Tallanvor and Galad ending up in the same little part of the plot.  Maybe if all these characters start coming together the plot will move along a little quicker and we can make our way to Tarmon Gai'don in the foreseeable future...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-11 00:00:00
subject: Heroes and Horsies
body:
<p>Okay, as we all know from <i>The Great Hunt</i>, the heroes that are called back by the Horn of Valere ride horses that can walk on water. We also know from <i>The Shadow Rising</i> that the heroes who are bound to the Horn hang out in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> waiting to be reborn (spun out) or respond to the Horn. In the same book we learn that domesticated animals aren't present in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> and horses are specifically mentioned. Anyone see a problem here?<br /> <br />When the heroes are called by the Horn their horses come with them, but where the heck do these water-walking horses come from? We know that they can't hang out with their riders in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> because it's been specifically mentioned to be a no-horsie area. And it's a fair supposition that walking on water is a pretty unusual thing for a horse to be doing, regardless of how special and heroic its rider may be.<br /> <br />In fact, the only horse we have ever seen in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> is Bela, the shaggy mare and it is assumed that Egwene "constructed" her because she needed a horse while she was physically travelling through <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. Now I don't really want to get into the whole Bela thing - that's a can of worms I WILL NOT open. Let's assume for the moment that the horse Egwene rode wasn't really Bela, but just her altering the world of dreams to suit her needs like clothes and mirrors and other handy things. If we can make that assumption for now, let's get on with it...<br /> <br />Horses used by heroes (or anyone else for that matter) are domesticated animals and, therefore, not represented in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. They can't go there, they can't live there, and they don't walk on water there or anywhere else. So we have to logically conclude that the horses ridden by the heroes summoned by the Horn of Valere were, like Bela, constructs of the will of their riders. And this is where it starts to get weird.<br /> <br />The heroes who are bound to the Horn can create things in the real world (like horsies that walk on water for example) to help them accomplish the goals of the Hornblower (or Hornsounder if you prefer) and/or the Dragon Reborn. Or at the very least they can create these things in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> and then keep them as they do their thing in the real world. So we can conclude that it is possible to create something in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> and bring it out into the real world and have it continue to exist for a time.<br /> <br />Other examples of this might be the physical damage (that sister's hair that was burned during the nightmare in the dream-version of the White Tower) one takes with them from <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> when they are harmed there. The Forkroot tea effects on Moggy lead us to another note - that ANYONE (even Nynaeve, who is neither bound to the Horn nor a Dreamwalker) can accomplish this feat. The implications of this are very disturbing.<br /> <br />Now we know that Dreamwalking is very rare and that it has nothing to do with the One Power. Perrin can do it through his wolfbrotherhoodness, others fleetingly by mere chance. The only groups with any real time or depth of exposure to the dream world are the Aiel Wise Ones and the Forsaken. The fact that none of them regularly practice this "making and taking" may indicate some sort of deep-seated taboo on the practice or merely that they don't realize that it is possible. Or it could be like one of those "tricks" that the wilders pick up and guard jealously. Maybe the real reason that we don't know anything about this Talent is that the very few people who are capable of it don't want to share the knowledge so they warn people off about "dangers" and so forth.<br /> <br />So this is like another one of those lost Talents that everyone keeps groaning about having lost - the ability to use <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> like Felix the Cat's bag of tricks. Just physically reach into the dreamworld (even while awake since Dreamwalkers can do that) and pull out a rubber mallet or whatever you need. Notice that the WoT series is one of the very few fantasy works where there is no such thing as conjuring? One of the very staples of magic is the ability to produce things out of thin air, but no one in Jordan's world, even the Forsaken, seem to be able to do this.<br /> <br />Could it be that "making and taking" was one of those things that was suppressed like Balefire was during the Age of Legends? But since no one during the Age of Legends seemed to do it, maybe it was suppressed in a previous age, like the age when the portal stones and the treaties with the Finns were made. You know, legend fades to myth and even myth is forgotten etc. This would indicate that, like Balefire, there is a reason why its use has fallen into disfavor. I would posit that the Bag of Tricks Talent does exactly the opposite thing to the weave that Balefire does. <br /> <br />Where Balefire rips a thread out of the Pattern, "making and taking" actually weaves a new thread into it like embroidery - possibly with equally unpredictable and unpleasant results. Now this next part is getting a trifle thin, but remember that we still have like a gazillion books left in the series (feels that way sometimes, don't it?) Weaving a new thread into the pattern is, as I said before, like embroidery. So who is it that is constantly embroidering things? And what will she teach Rand and the Asha'man that they won't like learning? Verin is a Brown sister from Far Madding where that power-dampening field exists and she was in possession of the twisted stone ring <i>ter'angreal</i> that lets you access <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> without touching the One Power - a handy thing to have if you live in Far Madding and need access to the world of dreams for research. And we know that Cadsuane has been through Far Madding in the past where she caused some sort of ruckus. Both sisters seem to have hidden agendas as far as Rand is concerned and both refer to having made mysterious "mistakes" in the past. <br /> <br />Cadsuane and Verin both possess this Talent and their agenda is to get Rand to use this "Pattern Embroidery" to repair the Bore instead of sealing it up. Remember that the Bore is a hole in the Pattern and the seal that Lews Therin placed over it is just a patch of sorts. This newly discovered (or rediscovered) Talent is what Rand and his crew (note that Elayne has pretty much started mass-producing copies of the stone ring <i>ter 'angreal</i> - all part of the plan) need to learn in order to finally defeat the Dark One by re-weaving the Pattern around him. And having Cadsuane for a teacher is enough reason for anyone to not like learning something, but there is probably a horrible price attached to using this Talent that we don't know about yet.<br /> <br />Choke on that, you fiends! That one goes out especially to anyone who has ever posted anything about Taim really being Demandred.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is one long, and interesting, theory.  I have no idea if I believe any of this (probably not, really), but I think it would be kind of cool if talented (Talented?) people could just start pulling stuff out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>.  I think I'll just be quiet, and leave all the comments to this for others to post on the Blackboard.  That's what it's there for, after all - to help me respond to all these theories when I have no idea what to say...  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-11 00:00:00
subject: The Wheel of Time
body:
<p>Alright, this is my theory about the Wheel of Time, concerning the Dragon and such. <br /><br /><br />Now, lets say there is a Wheel, the Wheel of Time, that had eight <br />different sections-or ages. Every time the Third Age comes around the Dragon -or Dragon reborn- is born onto the planet. So Lews Therin is born in the Third Age and becomes a hero doing all this stuff, and eventually imprisons the Dark one. Then, as he goes mad and kills everyone, they all dread his return as the Dragon Reborn. <br /><br />The next time the Third Age comes by, Rand al'Thor is born and starts by defeating Forsaken, Darkfriends, and eventually imprisons the Dark One. <br /> <br />Now, sort of off the point here. There are only two known forms of <br />spiritual forces outside the wheel, the Creator and Shai'tan. Out of these two, only one will dare touch the Wheel- Shai'tan. However, he touches it in a way to try and turn everything towards his own image, and doesn't care for it. So by him using it just a little every time the ages come and go, who is going to grease the wheel? It will build up rust or whatever, and eventually Lews Therin or Rand al'Thor may be born an age too soon- but not the Forsaken or someone like that. <br /><br />Born into the Second Age Rand al'Thor will have no Forsaken loose on the planet for him to destroy, no Padan Fain trying to destroy him, and several other obstacles not there. So this could come down to two endings for him. A) Rand al'Thor goes mad from the taint and destroys himself and others. B) Rand al'Thor faces Shai'tan without experience and dies. <br /><br />Point going around and around, what I'm trying to say here is the planet of WoT is pretty screwed. And this may not be entirely logical, but in a way it is-I guess.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I somewhat understnad this.  YOu lost me when you asked who would grease the wheel.  But I think I got the gist of it.<br /></p><p><br />What your saying is everytime Shai'tan touches the world, he's setting the wheel little by little right?  Which led you to make the conclusion that Rand would be born in the second age?  If thats so, then yes, Randland(shudder) would be royally screwed.<br /></p><p><br />And btw, there are seven spokes on the Wheel of Time, each spoke representing an age.  You were one off.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-11 00:00:00
subject: Norse Similarities
body:
<p>Alright, in my opinion, I think that Jordan seemed to have fallen in love with Norse Mythology. So I don't confuse you (or me!) along the way, let me say who I think is whos counterpart. <br /><br />Rand~Tyr <br />Mat~Odin <br />Perrin~Thor (though it often switches out of Thor's place) <br /><br />Rand, or Tyr, was a great swordsman (I think) and seemed to act quite a bit like Rand. Before Ragnorak (The Last Battle) would come, none wanted Fenrir (differs from spellings sometimes), the gigantic wolf thought near infinite strength, to be around. So, what did they do? They tied him in chains time and time again, never thinking he would escape, but he always did. It was a contest of sort to him. One day, they used a magic thread (don't know from where. Been a while) to tie him up. He thought it as a trick nearly immediately, and demanded to have Tyr, his good friend (yet again, I'm not sure), to place one hand into his jaws for trust. When he couldn't break from the thread, he bit off Tyr's hand. My conclusion? I've heard spoilers (I'm still not quite done with A Crown of Swords, thank you very much spoilers!) <br />that Rand will lose a hand. Tyr lost a hand from a wolf. Rand will lose his hand. From a wolf I believe, and oddly enough, I belive it will be Hopper. After all, Rand often visits Tel'Aran'Rhiod, does he not? And Perrin speaks to wolves (I don't know how that concludes to Thor, though...) <br /><br />Mat seems remarkably like Odin. I've already heard one person mention <br />numerous reasons, so I'll just mention a few here. Now, we know that he is doomed to gave half the light of the world, giving one eye, as did Odin. Odin gave his eye for knoledge, so I believe. The very same for Mat. Mat will try to revisit the Snakes or Foxes, and lose an eye. I think he will be taking the Tower of Ghengi for this. As will, as many people already seem to think, Thom and Rand. Its supposed to be only way to win a game of Foxes and Snakes is if you cheat. I think Mat will cheat- not just Thom. And he will suffer high consequences, half the light of his world. This isn't all that great, but oh well. <br /><br />Perrin goes to Thor for one simple reason, I think. Thor was meant to be a builder- with his hammer. There have been times when Perring would (or will) have to choose between his hammer and axe. In time, with his skills, he will rebuild a world with all united maybe. Like another Artur Hawking, or something. Not very good anyway.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I have seen the likes of this before.  Perrin always seems to be the oddman out.  <br /></p><p><br />Anyway, your conclusion with Rand hand getting eaten by a wolf in T'A'R is quite slim in itself.  Just cus Tyr got his hand bit off doesn't mean RJ has to follow that directly.  Rj once said that he draws from a lot of different sources, and uses somthing he called reverse method mythology, basically where he can use myths, but not have to stick to them.<br /></p><p><br />The correlations are certainly there, but there are some definite gaps.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-12 00:00:00
subject: The Perfect Murder of Moridin
body:
<p>Demandred in WH - "Perhaps it could be arranged that the next time he[Moridin] died he wouldn't a new body. Perhaps it could be arranged soon"<br /><br />Graendel in TPOD - "The man[Moridin] was Naeblis today, but there was always tommorow" Cyndane and Moghedian have a very good reason to want him[Moridin] dead.<br /><br />So how could you arrange it without being discovered.<br /><br />Slayer is approached by a Chosen in disguise, even though Rand's killing has been approved. Slayer cannot actually see who he killed until he lit a candle The Patron asks Slayer to tell nobody of this, again even though his killing has been approved, and will arrange the next time and place. Time perhaps to find Moridin's lair. And Slayer has now become comfortable with this routine.<br /><br />So this is how it works:<br /><br />Patron "he is in here"<br /><br />Slayer stabs the victim, lights a candle "That's not my nephew that's<br />Moridin." Slayer returns to the Patron who has now gone. "I don't even know who that was"<br /><br />Who has great knowledge of Tel'iarn'hood - Cyndane and Moghedian. Could they disguise their voices?<br /><br />Or is it Graendel or Demandred?<br /><br />But I believe Slayer has been set up to kill Moridin in a perfect murder.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Wouldn't it be <i>just</i> a Chosen to meddle in their own politics when the fate of the world is at hand?  Typical darkfriend.<br /></p><p><br />The thought of Slayer being a double-crossing assasin is intriguing, but if the Patron was searching for Moridin's pad, why then would he be sending Slayer to Far Madding?  Seems odd that Moridin would be hiding in a city were channeling is inconceivable.  Although, that might be a good place for Moridin to hide if he were being hunted.<br /></p><p><br />I like this, what do you all think?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-12 00:00:00
subject: Other Rands
body:
<p>I remember in The great Hunt that when Rand transported a large amount<br />of people to the falme, they ran through all the different lives they<br />could've lived.<br /><br />There was one important note, and that was that all the other worlds<br />failed to stop the Darkone, and that theirs was the last world, and if<br />one could win, the wheel was safe.<br /><br />I believe that if this Tarmon Gaidin is really the last last battle,<br />Rand could quite possibly travle through a few of the thousands and<br />thousands of worlds and perhaps bring "other Rands" back with him.<br /><br />And I'm not saying this is very likely, because there hasn't been any<br />foreshadowing that I can recall that supports this theory, and most of<br />the really good theories have verse in a prophesy, or a dream of the<br />future, or even a viewing from Min.<br /><br />But it would be pretty cool, if Rand brought back 7 Rands, and they all came together to form the sheild on the Dark One's prison.<br /><br />Unfortunately, when Rand did travel through the other worlds, each<br />person embodied himself in that world, so perhaps there isn't any "extra Rands lying around"<br /><br />Geez, I'm probably the first person to submit a theory, then prove that it was false.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Well, makes my job a lot easier. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /></p><p><br />Your rejecting point is a valid one, and I really hasve to agree with it, but also remember that each of those worlds in the portal stones are worlds that <i>could</i> have been.  Some of those Rands are dead, crazy, rotting, or maybe even a darkfriend.  So, even if this was possible, I'm not sure I would want all those different Rands on my side.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-12 00:00:00
subject: Lanfear or Moiraine
body:
<p>Ok here is my two cents. In a Crown of Swords,Min tells Rand that he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone.I know a lot of people believe this to be Moraine.But it is possible that this woman could be Lanfear aka Cyndane.This being that it is believed she is dead. We all know her to be tied to Moridin with the Mindtrap,and perhaps she realizes that if she is pretty much a servent to Moridin there is no chance for her to be named Nae'blis.Therefore perhaps she will somehow get in touch with Rand and Rand will perhaps come of a way to free her from Moridin and the Mindtrap and Lanfear will come back to the Light and in part help Rand at the Last Battle.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> When pigs fly.  Somehow, I just don't see lanfear tuning to the light anymore than Rand being turned to the Dark One.  It is a possibility, but just as much of one as Kari, Rand's adopted mother, coming back to help him.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-17 00:00:00
subject: Why Faile will
body:
<p>The Shadow has sufffered a number of deaths of the major characters -Aginor (twice), Balthemal, Belal, Rhavin, Lanfear, Asmodean, Ishamael and Sammael. Opposed, the Light has suffered none, as Moiraine is coming back.<br /><br />Surely when RJ was planning this storyline in his mind he planned for someone on the 'Lights' side to die. Apart from Sevannah, Therava, Galina, and Faile's dreams, this is one of the reasons I think Faile will die.<br /><br />The others are as follows:<br /><br />Min's Viewing <br /><br />"Well she'll be snubbed up sooner or later. I saw nothing of use to you, just a man in white that will make her fall head over heels in love. Some women have no shame at all".<br /><br />The "man in white" (she saw no face as she knows both Perrin and Galad) will snub her and what she saw was shameful. We know Perrin is World Champion at snubbing Berelain and wearing white to a funeral is a Two Rivers custom - which is the shameful scene in which Min saw Berelain looking at the 'man in white'. Plus Perrin may wear Gaishin white robes with Grady, Aram and Neald in a less costly attempt to rescue Faile.<br /><br />Min viewed the Hawk and Falcon on equal positions on either shoulders.<br />Perrin has been thought to be a modern day Hawkwing. Hawkwing was known as the Hammer, had all of his family killed and had two wives. Berelain swore an Ogiers Oath to win Perrin but now her feelings are genuine - Berelain's gaze was like stroking fingers on Perrin's back in WH.<br /><br />This is exactly the same as Faile looking at Perrin in the blacksmith's in Tear. Annoura called Perrin a fool for believing Berelain's 'attentions' to be a 'childish game'. The Pattern is pushing Perrin to be a King. A Pendrag Wife would be more helpful to Manetheren (with Seanchan neighbours) than a Bashere Wife.<br /><br />Mourn and move on. Then meet again in the Wolf Dream.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Hmm, of all the likely people to die, I always figured it would be Faile, especially when she mentioned that she wanted him to move on if she died.  It seemed too much like foreshadowing to be common talk.<br /></p><p><br />I think Berelain <i>has</i> done a 180° on her feelings to Perrin, and if her feelings are genuine, then she's going to want to wiggle even more into his affairs, and that probably means that Faile gets the cut.<br /></p><p><br />One more reason to wait for the higly anticipated book 10. *weg*<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-17 00:00:00
subject: Unlike Superman/Clark Kent, Taim and Demandred can be seen in the same room.
body:
<p>Bit amazed by the 44% result that think Taim is Demandred but the facts remain the same.<br /><br /><li> Demandred hates LTT/Rand more than anyone in the world, but Perrin does not smell hate at Dumai Wells.<br /><br /><li> He arrives at Shadar Logoth hoping to kill Rand and failing that, to sear the ability to channel out of him. This is while Logain is at the Black Tower.<br /><br /><li> He gives Kisman, a known DF,  two orders as Taim and Demandred to hide his whereabouts, even though Aginor is at the Black Tower and is $h!t scared of Moridin and would tell him everything. This also means LTT rants of Demandred because Taim only looks like him.<br /><br /><li> He gives Flynn (the first man he tested) control of the BT whilst he recruits, and 3 months later cannot recognise him, even though he's close enough to see his limp and fringe of white hair. (rumour of RJ interview said 20 to 30 metres) Flynn attacks Demandred and doesn't comment to Cadsuane later, "by the way, that singed Forsaken was actually Taim"<br /><br /><li> Demandred cannot recognise an AS Face of Corele and Sarene, even though he is close enough to see Corele bushy eyebrows. This is opposed to Taim being at Dumai Wells with 30 Aes Sedai and 51 sisters now live at the Black Tower. This also fits with Sammael's comment that Demandred was controlling things in Anti-Sedai country in the South-West.<br /><br /><li> This is all thrown against the so-called Aiel comment. But Taim most likely is mixing with the Forsaken and has shown a good knowledge of the Old Tongue - "Storm", "Attack" and "Leader". So after the Shaido battle in Cairhein, known darkfrends like Melindhra, those who throw down their spears and disappear or join the Shaido I wouldn't say the Aiel are 'dedicated' to Rand either. (This was mentioned when Taim was talking about Rand making his own army from Taim's leavings).<br /><br /><li> This leaves his smile. Well, Halwin Norry would be in the running as well.<br /><br />Until these facts can be explained Taim is not Demandred.<p><b>Raserei says:</b> The facts stand.  And how just a little under half the people here still believe Taim is Demandred is beyond me.  Get over it.  It ain't possible.<br /><br /><br /> </p></li></li></li></li></li></li></li></p>


created: 2001-04-17 00:00:00
subject: Why the Dark One wants Rand to live
body:
<p>One question which has never been discussed is why the Dark One would want Rand alive at the last battle.<br /><br />In Lord of Chaos he specifically told Demandred to let the Lord of Chaos rule.  I don't belive that the Dark One would do this without a reason.  In A Crown of Swords the wanderer probably Moridin also saved Rand from Sammael in Shadar Logoth.  At that time either<br />one of them could have killed him.<br /><br />The reason that he wants Rand alive at the last Battle is because he can't break free without him.  Even during the Age of Legends all of the Dark One's followers could not release him.  However I think that if Rand possibly with Mat and Perrin are at Shayol Ghul together they could twist chance so much as to release him from his prison.  This is after all his ultimate goal.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Yes, in LoC that is true, but it seems that the time to keep the Lord of Chaos alive has passed, perhaps because there was a choice that was ot be made by Rand, and the DO thought that Rand would choose the decision that would eventually free him.  Put rand did the opposite, and now the DO sees his demise, and hopes ot kill him off.  This happens alot in Greek Myth, but I don't know if the Creator and DO are able to see the future.  And if they culd, why the fuss?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Absolutely Paradoxical
body:
<p></p><p>Something has really been bothering me about the whole bit withMoiraine and the letter.  Those of you have taken quantum mechanics,particle physics and have watched all three <i>Back to the Future</i> movies will be able to follow my logic.</p><p>It all started when Moiraine decided to go into the foggy city, or Rhuidean, to see her possible futures-- all three of them.  Now, we all know that those futures were all related to the little scenario at the wagon with the doorway to the snake people.</p><p>Ok, here's where it gets disturbing.  Knowing her fate, she wrote in her letter to Thom, that she needs saving and so on (I'm taking this for granted for my theory).  Min's viewing saw him pull a blue stone out of a fire.</p><p>Ok, so here is the paradox: There is a little time loop that keeps repeating.  Moiraine sees fate.  Moiraine writes letter.  Moiraine disappears.  Thom reads letter.  Thom saves her (this part doesn't matter).</p><p>Now let's go back to step 1.  Moiraine sees fate.  If she sees her fate and writes her letter in direct effect to this seeing of the future, isn't she altering what happens in the next loop?  Wouldn't each time the loop is repeated it work differently?</p><p>Now all us time travelers know travelling back a billion years ago and sitting on a bush or something can make the present very different...like it raining donuts (Simpson's Halloween episode where Homer travels to prehistoric times with toaster is as good an example as any.)  Anyhow, if Moiraine has changed the way things even slightly the way things turn out even the in the slightest, the next time the loop occurs the change would become the "original" and it would be changed somewhat again and again...</p><p>Now some of you might say that the letter being written does not constitute part of the loop.  Maybe she didnt see herself write it and Thom's reading of the letter occurs after the end of the loop. Yes I agree, this is highly likely but the only reason she wrote the letter is because she saw her future. So the first time the loop runs, there is no letter, she sees whats may happen (3 mays) and she introduces the letter to the time line. Going back, she sees her fates again but this time around the letter is written into the future.  Now this time line isaltered. </p><p>To illustrate I want you all to recall or see <i>Back to the Future 2</i>, where Doc Brown draws on the board a time line. The future is changed by the viewing of the fate and she now originally sees a slightly altered fate.</p><p>This has wide implications.  If this logic holds it would keep repeating infinitely.  This is a paradox.  Time would be constantly changing in that little segment and so, the time line would be stuck there!</p><p>On an even broader note, all the wise ones have gone through this process. So, it might be possible for time not to change Moiraine, but sooner or later it will happen.  And when it does the pattern itself will unravel like a big bolt balefire was aimed at it and the Dark One will die from loneliness outside this non-existant pattern with no one to harass.  This is the last scene Robert Jordan has known that he will write sincethe beginning!  There is no point in going on reading the series!......it will end the same.......oh Ilyenna plaese forgive me.......(receeds into the back of Buck's head weeping for his lostlife...)</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Hmmm...well your theory does introduce a disturbing paradox, and a mild headache for that matter *reaches for Advil&trade;) However, we must remember that Moiraine did have another reason for writing that letter:  she had promised to tell Thom the truth about Owyn.  Also, she knew she was going to die at the wagon, and yet did nothing for anyone to prevent it.  Her selfless respect for the Dragon Reborn and for the Pattern leads me to believe that she wouldn't put anything in that letter that could alter time.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Moridin took Him
body:
<p></p><p>Moridin took him.</p><p>The book says:</p><p>...the blood draining from his face (he saw Moridin's <i>saa</i> and wet his pants).  "You? No!" The word still hung in the air when death (death=Moridin in the Old Tongue) took him (took him, not killed him).</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> In a word, no.  Two things:  First, Moghedian did not recognize Moridin when she first met him, why would Asmo?  Secondly, and much more definite, RJ has said that all the clues to the identity of Asmo's killer is in TFOH.  Moridin doesn't appear until ACOS, so that would make it impossible.  The clues can't be all in book 5 if the killer doesn't appear till book 7, no?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: How Mat will Lose an Eye
body:
<p></p><p>We meet Tuon, the DoTNM in WH, so we know that big things are happening with Mat.  However, what we don't know is if the two "prophecies" regarding Mat and the DoTNM and his losing half the light of the world to save it are connected.  I think they could be, and here are my reasons:</p><p>1)  The Seanchan are a very powerful people and they control the laws wherever they rule.  Thus it would stand to reason that this would extend to certain rituals and customs.  Think of the Atha'an Miere, where we have been given hints of what happened with Lan and Nyn regarding their marriage ceremony.</p><p>2)  We know that Mat and Tuon will marry one day, but Mat is a foreigner and Tuon is the daughter of the most powerful person across the Aryth Ocean.  So it stands to reason that there may be a specific ritual concerning the marriage of a direct descendant of Hawkwing and a foreigner.</p><p>3)  It seems that the Seanchan and Rand are at odds with each other due to their differences and Mat may be the only one to bring them together for Tarmon Gai'don (this may be important just for the sheer power of numbers, but we can only speculate as to what TG will entail).</p><p>Ok, here's where I really start to speculate.  What if one of these marriage rituals says that the bride and groom must give a gift of great importance to one another in order for the marriage to be binding?  I think that Mat may have to give up one of his eyes in exchange for control of the Seanchan Army until TG and its end...perhaps beyond?  That I cannot know.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, there really isn't anything I can say to disprove your theory.  It's just that the basis of your theory is purely speculative.  I think at this point RJ would stop introducing new things and just wrap up the myriad threads he's already opened.  I guess with this we can only say, "RAFO".<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Taim is Linked to Demandred
body:
<p>We all know that the link between Aes Sedai and Warder allows for the <br />communication of emotions along the link.  This link runs both ways unless either side tries to set up a mental shield.<br /><br />People have also been wondering why Taim seems to know the Old Tongue and makes all sorts of mistakes he shouldn't be, and yet is not Demandred (he isn't, give it up already).  I think that the warder link provides a vital clue in understanding what's going on.<br /><br />First, we know Taim was to be captured by the Black Ajah and converted against his will by a circle of 13 with a myrdraal.  I think it's safe to say this happened.  But has anyone ever noticed that there is no mention of just HOW this takes place?  I think that it has to be through some sort of link similar to the Warder link, only this link is stronger, and so not only emotions but also THOUGHTS are passed both ways.  Demandred can monitor what Taim is thinking and punish him for thoughts against the Dark One, and Taim <br />gets the "feedback" in the form of knowledge about the Age of Legends, Old Tongue, etc.  This would explain why Perrin thought Taim <br />smelled strange.  He might be smelling the "feedback" thoughts and emotions from Demandred, but since they're not coming from Taim directly, he can't put his finger on what's going on.<br /><br />To the extent that Demandred is dominating him, he might even be able to control his actions completely at some times so that Taim is really nothing more than an automaton.  During these times, LTT starts flipping out because he can sense the Forsaken controlling Taim but the nature of the link confuses him, too, so he just starts raving about the Forsaken in general.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Two things.<br /></p><p><br />1.) The Forsaken were amazed that the Aes Sedai of this age were able to create a link between humans.  So, if they were amazed, how'd they develop such a sophisticated linking procedure in such a short amount of time.  Also, the knowledge of 13 Aes Sedai and a Mydrall can turn someone to the dark one was known since the AoL. And the warder link came after the AoL.  So it seems that the procedure of turning someone to the shadow is a little more in depth than just linking them to the DO.<br /></p><p><br />2.) LTT is raving ANY time Taim is around.  It's not just a few chance meetings, but every time he sees Taim, he raves.  SO I think LTT senses something about Taim that Rand does not.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Adeleas and Ispan murderer.
body:
<p>The murder of Adeleas & Ispan confirms that there is a BA or darkfriend in Elayne&rsquo;s group. I favour the theory that Ispan was the primary victim, killed so as not to talk any more and/or as a punishment for being caught (Amico and Joiya were also killed) and Adeleas was killed because she was a witness.<br /><br />Although that it is possible that a non-channeler is the murderer, a channeler is much more probable (and there many channelers in the group). So the murderer could be:<br /><br />·A Windfinder  <br />·A member of the Kin <br />·An Aes Sedai (black sister) <br /><br />I think it is more probable that the murderer is a black sister rather than a Kin/Windfinder darkfriend. The black sisters candidates are:<br /><br />·Vandene<br />·Careane <br />·Sareitha <br />·Merilille<br /><br />I don&rsquo;t think Vandene is a suspect. I don&rsquo;t think she is BA, and if she is, it would mean that her primary victim was her sister and Ispan the witness. The way Ispan was killed points to her being the primary victim. The other three are equally probable. <br /><br />In WH RJ confirms that an AS is more probable than windfinder or Kin.<br /><br />The novices Kirstian & Zarya arrive at the conclusion that murderer is a channeler and also an AS rather than a windfinder or a member of the kin - windfinders could not know of the herb and the kin has no d/f among them - and Vandene and Elayne agree with their reasoning. (So murderer = BS =1 of the 3).<br /><br />Also Marillin tells Mili Skane that there is a woman in the palace and she will contact her. The woman darkfriend in the palace has to be AS (ie BS), in order to do what Mili Skane wants. The BS has to be one of the 3 since we have not heard that there are any other sisters in the palace. <br /><br />Right after RJ (through the novices) by logical reasoning has pointed to the 3 AS, and has also suggested (through Marillin) that one of the sisters in the palace is BA, one of the suspects, Sareitha, misses her class because she has gone in the city for some errand. This tips the scales highly in her favour for being the BS. No one knows where exactly she has gone and why, and this errand happens right after Marillin says she will contact the BS in the palace. So the errand is probably to meet her fellow Black/Brown sister.<br /><br />So with the evidence we have so far, I think Sareitha is the prime suspect for the BS and the murderer of Adeleas & Ispan.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> But WHY?  I liked Adeleas!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Why everything will turn out as expected.
body:
<p>There has always been something about the WOT universe that has always bothered me and made me uncomfortable with the series at times.  I am not saying I enjoy the series because it is a great; I just have a problem with the background to the story and the universe in general.<br /><br />Basically, it comes down to the fact that this is a world of predestination and one lacking free will.  There cannot be free will where everything is predestined.  Certain characters claim that the Pattern allows a little room for variation and choice.  I think one of the examples used was Rand could have decided to live in Emond&rsquo;s Field or on a farm in the Westwood.  There is a problem with this.  The Pattern of an Age is complex beyond whatever comprehension mankind can possess in this world or that.  Tiny differences would interfere with prophecy just as much as major changes.  If Tam had decided to live in town then the Trollocs would not have injured him, or at the least a lot less injured, and would not possibly have let Rand go off into the world without him.  In any case, the outcome of Rand&rsquo;s entire life would have been completely different. <br /><br />Put this idea in the context of the past.  If Rand&rsquo;s true mother&rsquo;s ancestors had lived in a slightly different place two thousand years ago, then they could not have become the rulers of Andor.  If they had decided on the small difference of living outside of a town instead of inside it, to reuse the previous example, the Trollocs would have destroyed them when they came broiling out of the Blight.  For a prophecy 3000 years in the making, no margin for error exists.  This proves that man has no free will.  The Creator preprograms everything he does. <br /><br />This includes the forces of the Dark One.  Everything that Ishmael did for the forces for the Dark One while he was free was also a part of the overall weave of the Creator.  The Ten Nations had to break up so that they could not turn their attention to the Blight and destroy the Dark One&rsquo;s forces, or so Artur Hawkwing could conquer Randland.  Hawkwing and his dream had to die so that the world would look the way it did so the Seanchan would invade instead of being welcomed home as long lost relatives.  Everything done by all of the Forsaken has resulted in helping Rand fulfill some part of the prophecy.  If the Forsaken had any control over their lives whatsoever they would realize that everything that they did played into the Dragon and Creator&rsquo;s hands.  They would realize that there is no possible way that the Dark One could win, because even though it is claimed that he is not part of the Pattern everything he has commanded his forces to do has been part of the predestined weave set in stone 3000 years ago.<br /><br />This is my problem.  This is my problem with fantasy in general.  It may be that I have too much of an Ayn Rand influence, or that I do not like to think of mankind&rsquo;s destiny in control of another&rsquo;s hand.  I know that I don&rsquo;t want to exist in such a world.  Man, in the WOT universe, cannot think.  He is stupid.  Mankind could have easily built itself up after the Breaking and destroyed the Blight.  They had channelers and the Dark One did not, or if he did, not nearly as many as the Light did. I&rsquo;ve done a post on this second before so I will not rehash it here.  I was just wondering if anyone else had a problem with this like me.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Wow, I never realy thought of this much.  But you appear to be right, about the small things having as much effect as big things.  This kinda fgoes right along with the other theory about time loops, only this is more practical and less headache inducing. Thanks for submitting.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: The identity of the other face
body:
<p>Here's another theory on who the other entity might be whose running around in Rand's head. First, let me backtrack and mention a couple of things that brought me to my idea. <br /><br />When we first learn that Rand is hearing a voice in his head, seeing an image of a face, and tapping into knowledge that, by all normal expectations, he should not have, it is likely that we all assumed that this was happening to him because of his special status as the Dragon Reborn. Or perhaps this only happened to people who had lived other lives in the prior turnings of the Wheel. <br /><br />However, we learn from Cadsuane that it is common, or at least common enough that she has heard of it before, for male channelers to hear such voices. Perhaps the other male channelers whom Cadsuane has encountered or heard of were also making "contact" with a previous personality. Perhaps saidin allows one to tap into a flow of thought or energy that transcends time itself. Or perhaps this is a side affect of the taint, and madness begins to take over because of a disjointed relationship with time. Makes one wonder if some of the Asha'man are making contact with past lives that might be helpful for the Last Battle. <br /><br />Presumably, when Lews Therin began to go mad, he was also hearing voices. Can we assume that in his day and age, he was hearing Rand's voice and seeing Rand's face? Are they in essence having a conversation that is taking place in two different time periods? If that is indeed the case, then we have an example of one person who is hearing the voice of a prior self, and the other is hearing the voice of a future self. If both of those things are possible, then it opens up two possible explanations for who the third face is: <br /><br />1) The third person is a prior self of Lews Therin, who perhaps Rand sees more "dimly" than he sees Lews Therin himself, because this third person is further removed from Rand in time. This might also account for why it took longer for Rand to notice this third face. If that is the case, it is possible that as one grows madder and madder from the taint, more and more prior selves continue to compound the process, until there is a crowd of voices and conflicting images in your mind. <br /><br />2) If we consider the prior theory, then it is natural to consider that Lews Therin is in contact both with a self from his past and a self from his future. AHA! Perhaps this could also happen with Rand, and the third face is a self from Rand's future, his next incarnation. Its even possible that Lews Therin sees a third face (Lews Therin's prior self) that is different from the third face that Rand sees (Rand's future self). Extrapolating this out to its extreme, there is one continuous lines of selves who are linked to each other consciously over time. <br /><br />Dont know if this train of thought is even remotely related to what's going on in Jordan's head, but it does present some interesting speculation about how the introduction of this third face might affect Rand's actions. Anyway, i would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> That would be cool! You could talk to yourself from an age ago.<br /></p><p><br />The thing is, the taint has been supposedly cleaned from <i>saidin</i>, so rand won't have an oppurtunity to talk to his future self.  <br /></p><p><br />I had something else to say, but I forgot.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Rand's secret power
body:
<p>Like the title says I believe, that there is a true power that stems from the creator that Rand alone has "permission" to use.  Being the chosen one, and the creator actually talking to him in Book 1 gives him a good résumé for the person Mr. Jordan would pick to channel this power.<br /><br />In my mind there is lots of symbolism, foreshadowing, and one big thing I've noticed is patterns pertaining to the number 3.  3 ta'veren, the third age, 13 aes sedai, three major sa angreal, three forms of what happened to aiel (sea folk, aiel, tinkers), rand's three wives, the logo for the wheel and the snake make three hoops, three songs (aiel, ogier, and the green man needed), three groups of strong women other than aes sedai (wise ones, wind finders, and the kin), Rand's three personalities (Lews Therin, Him, and the other one) There are probably others, but I can't remember them now.<br /><br />Well another three that I believe will surface is the idea of another power to counter that of the true power that stems from the dark one. It'll probably have white saa, and the one who is channeling it will get to have some big moment of enlightenment. <br /><br />The question is whether or not Rand has the gift to use it whenever he wants like how Mat can use the horn whenever, not just at the last battle, or will this be a tarmon gaidin only surprise.  If it's the last battle I believe it will surface as while Rand is dying and his blood is spilling all over the black stone of shayol ghul, where in he will embrace it and shut of the dark one, with the power of the creator, which being the power of life itself will save him and return him to full health.<br /> <br />The other possibility is that it isn't going to be a one time only deal.  For this to happen, I believe that many members of the black ajah perhaps, or some other band of evil channeling people will capture him and hold him until 13 black ajah can arrive with 13 myrddraal. Where they will try to turn him and it will surface and kill them all, but leave him completely incapacitated 'til help arrives.<br /><br />Or someone will grab him and hook him up to that funky black a'dam that will be used to harness his power.  And since the taint is gone, they won't have to worry about it seeping through to them.  Rand will be completely helpless, and the only way he'll be able to escape will be to find a new power within himself that isn't blocked by an invisible shield.  <br /><br />So far, he's been one of many people who channel the one power, the only thing special being that he's the strongest so far, but hey what's so great about that, anyone can double their power with an angreal.  And lets face it, every main character in a fantasy book is special in some way from everyone else.  The only really special thing about Rand so far is his prophetary name (The Dragon Reborn).<br /><br />The other possibilty, is that the power of the creator can only be used once and it is your own life force that is needed to unlock the power, so it could me a kamakazi power that Rand will use to fight off the bad things, and then he'll just die.  But that doesn't seem quite as good and ending to you as some of the others.<br /><br />So let's face it, something is coming, and it will be momentous. Rand will become the tool of the Darkone's imprisoning, and everything will probably head through the age lace to the fourth age.  And I hope it will be happy days, but probably not.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Hmm, I always figured that with the powers there was a overbearance of two.  Two halves of the one power, <i>saidar</i> and <i>saidin</i>, and the True Power.  But now that you mention it, the True Power doesn't realy counter the One Power.  It will be interesting.  You would think the Creator would have something more ot give to others than just a strong use in the One Power and ta'verenness.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: Theory about Ishamael
body:
<p>Here's a crazy theory about Ishy, or a proven contradiction in TWoT...<br /><br />In the prologe of "The Eye of the World," we see a scene of Lews Therin wandering the destroyed halls of a palace looking for Ilyena. Now, since he can't remember that he killed everyone already, then he must already be mad.  <br /><br />Now, if he's already mad, then he already re-sealed the Bore on the Dark One's prison. Consequently, if he's already re-sealed the Bore, then all of the Forsaken are bound in the seals, which are freshly made, and therefore holding them all in nice and tight.  But... we see Ishamael enter the scene.  Now, shouldn't he be sealed in the seals? <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> Looking back at history, we see that most peoples completely disband after their leader is killed, that is of course, unless someone steps up to take the leader's place.  So after the War of the Shadow, the Darkfriends should have just eventually "dried up" because there was no one left to lead them.<br /><br />The Light won, and the Shadow was a lost cause.  But, maybe Ishy wasn't even at Shayol Ghul, and was never trapped.  Maybe he was loose throughout the entire history of the world, and set up a very extensive network of Darkfriends to all lie in wait for <i>Tarmon Gaidon</i>.  Perhaps this is why he was named Nae'Blis.<br /><br />I'm not exactly sure if this is true or not, but I thought I'd share it with all of you.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> It is broadly accepted that Ishy was <i>not</i> at Shayol Ghul when Lews Therin sealed the bore.  Either that or he was barely sealed and broke free.  Remember Aginor and Balthemal in the first book.  Aginor looked rotten, and Balthamal was hardly all there.  They said it was because they were at the top of the seal, and that time grated on them.  Maybe Ishy was just on the very outskirts of the seal, and skipped town.  <br /></p><p><br />That or he's one tricky bastard.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-25 00:00:00
subject: The Accepted Ter'angreal
body:
<p>I've always thought this a bit obvious, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it, so I think that I will.<br /><br />The three silver arches ter'angreal takes the testee to a piece of tel'aran'rhiod, where their mind is in control. We know that the arches are linked with tel'aran'rhiod, because of the "resonance" that happened between the arches and the twisted ring.  This has only ever been observed with rare pairs of ter'angreal that are related.  <br /><br />Anyway, that's the obvious parts.  But there are some interesting observations about this:<br /><br />Nynaeve had the "way out" which will "come but once" dissappear on her.  She closes her eyes, pictures herself as a rose on a thorn bush, making the thorns particularly long and cruel in her completely detailed mind's eye picture, and pictures the arch back there.  She thinks of herself as having channeled it there.  However, that's not what happened.  This is the World of Dreams.  It is there because she pictured it there.  And that is also why she has the thorns in her hands, and they leave scars after being healed.  She pictured the thorns, so they appeared.  We know from Verin that wounds taken in t'a'r don't always heal as nicely as they should.<br /><br />The second part of my theory, which is more debatable, is that the rings do not have to show you your greatest fears.  That is what the testee sees, because that's what she's been told she will see, and thus that is what she is expecting.  Why, you ask, do the AS think this is what it shows?  The first sisters who went in (warded-which leads to a sub theory about entering t'a'r in the flesh with weaves from the real world, but I will not go into that now, as this post is long and drawn out anyway) came out stilled.  What is an Aes Sedai's greatest fear?  Aha, I thought so.  Anyway, when sisters finally went in unwarded, they were certainly still scared out of their wits. They came up with the fab theory that the arches showed your worst fears for what was, what is, what will be, they passed that on... and it became self-fulfilling.<br /><br />Now, to poke a small hole in my own theory, Sheriam says that some women have sustained injuries inside the arches, yet come out without the injuries.  So perhaps there is something of a regular dream state in there, too...but that is an argument for another day.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Wouldn't that just totally tear the Aes Sedai asunder?  I mean, the whole basis of their raising is on something that might not even work the way they thought it does.  LOL!  That would be so funny.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-04-27 00:00:00
subject: Gareth Bryne and Gawyn to both die in WOT
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<p></p><p>In Celtic myth, the character Gawain (Gawyn) was the son of Morgawse (Morgase in WOT).</p><p>In Arthurian legend, Lancelot (Mat) accidently kills Gareth while rescuing Guinevere (Egwene al' Vere).</p><p>Gawain has unreasoning fury and insists on fighting Lancelot (Mat) to the death.  Lanceolot (Mat) gives Gawain (Gawyn) a head-wound from which he later dies.  He is said to be buried at Camelot (Caemlyn).</p><p>In the tale of Arthur's last battle, Gawain's ghost appears to Arthur (al'Thor) in a dream (TAR) and warns him, in vain, to not fight Mordred (Moridin) until Lancelot (Mat or Perrin in this case) arrives with reinforcements. </p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> WoT contains many parallels to legend and mythology of several different cultures.  It is apparant that RJ drew from Arthurian legend when creating this world.  However, I don't think he will follow the legend that closely.  RJ tends more to use the characters in Arthurian legend as templates for creating his own, as he also does with Norse mythology, Christianity, even Frank Herbert's classic Dune saga, among others.  Plus, what you're suggesting would tantamount to plagiarism.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-07 00:00:00
subject: Rand and the Fisher
body:
<p>I remember reading a theory a while back that suggested that Rand might be blind after cleansing the taint, one of the reasons being that Min kissed his eyes before he started the whole cleansing process. At the time I was not wholy convinces, but after reading <i>The Path Of Daggers</i> again I am. On page 32 Moridin is playing <i>sha'rah</i>. He discribes the game saying that the main target is catching and manipulating the Fisher. He discribes the Fisher as being black and white (the Aes Sedai colours) always worked as a man with a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side(Rand's wound), blood dripping through his fingers. The hand pressed to his side caught my attention. Too much detail to be coincidence. Moridin even goes on to say that the Fisher might even be "some dim remnant of a memory of al'Thor."<br /><br />I think it highly likely that even were Rand not blind after the cleansing that he will become so in the not so far off future. I do not think that it is nessesary for him to see flows of the Power to work it, as he could not always see them when he started channeling.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmm...  It's been too long since I've read <i>Winter's Heart</i> to comment on Min kissing his eyes.  If the Fisher is a symbol of Rand (and it seems like it probably is) then I think it possible that he will in fact go blind at one point or another.  I think maybe we'll just let everyone vote on this theory and see what they have to say...</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> The foreshadowing of Rand's fate after TG is almost contradictory, as there are equal arguments that he will die or live as a beggar.  As the latter too closely mirrors a <u>Dune</u> sequel (and I respect RJ too much to blatantly copy a famous work) I tend to lean more to the "He be dead!" theory.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-07 00:00:00
subject: Is Rand not a Dragon?
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<p></p><p>I have read your theories for about one year.  I teach literature at the junior high level and I wonder about the desire to just flow with the plot.  Doesn't Rand breath fire and destruction?  Doesn't he take virgins, however willingly they might be?  I feel very strongly that Jordan is being honest about Rand.  Rand is the Dragon Reborn and he will do whatever Jordan desires him to do.</p><p>Writing requires honesty or the reader will become disillusioned and stop reading (especially with nine books and no closure).  I have maintained the image of a human dragon compelled to complete a task he wants to survive.</p><p>The stuff about dragons may come true and I voted my opinion on some, but I think the author is forthright about dragons.  Dragons are destructive and so is Rand.  There are no virgins staked to posts for him to ravage, but he does have an abundance of willing virgins to ravage.  Dragons are unreliable in many stories and so is Rand.  Dragons fight for bad and good, Rand for good.</p><p>When all else fails the old KISS of football and any other sport prevails.  Keep It Simple Silly!</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> I've always contended that RJ was being forthright in his assertion that there are no dragons in WOT.  And I believe you are correct that Rand's behavior pattern does closely mimic a dragon's in a purely literary sense.  I still have to wonder how people in the world of WOT know what a dragon is though...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-07 00:00:00
subject: The Whitebridge
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<p></p><p>I've been considering lost <i>angreal</i>, and somethingthat popped up was Whitebridge.  We all know that Jordan leaves little or nothing to chance in his writing, and that he's a <b>huge</b> fan of foreshadowing.  When Rand was approaching Whitebridge, he saw a shadowflicker across the length of the bridge itself.  Now, I have considered that RJ was simply forshadowing the trouble that would actually occur in the town, but what if that was another flicker of the Power that Rand experienced?</p><p>My thought is this:  The White Bridge is actually a <i>ter'angreal</i> attuned to men (explaining why the Aes Sedai never figured it out).  Most people think it <b>was</b> created with the Power, and it probably does date from the Age of Legends.  So I figure it's probably a <i>ter'angreal</i> that aids those who haven't the strength to Travel (the scale is so large because in the Age of Legends they liked practicality, too).  A man channels thru the bridge (as one does with an <i>angreal</i>) and then weaves the flows for a gateway.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Should this theory be correct it would pose some interesting possibilities.  What if, instead of being a <i>ter'angreal</i>, it is actually that elusive second male <i>sa'angreal</i> more powerful than <i>Callandor</i>?  Of course, that's going out on a limb a bit.  My main arguement against this is that EOTW was originally going to be a stand alone book.  So this may have had no bearing on the plot at all.  However, it is quite interesting that despite all its buildup and description in Book One, we have yet to encounter it again in the latter eight books.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: How Rand Will Live After Tarmon Gai'don
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<p>Ok, there's millions of theories out there for this subject, most of them involving Healing by Nynaeve.  I couldn't sleep one night, and decided to take a different approach to this.<br /><br />Rand and the forces of Light are fighting the forces of the Shadow at the Last Battle.  Rand defeats the Dark One, and yes, Rand DIES.<br /><br />We all know that the Horn of Valere calls back the heroes of legend back from the dead.  They are always reborn, except for the Dragon, to live normal lives awaiting the call of the Horn (although some of their lives can't be changed, a la Birgitte and Gaidal Cain).<br /><br />We also know that the dead heroes of legend wait in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> to be woven back into the pattern or to be called by the Horn.  But Birgitte was ripped out by Moghedien.  So far we don't know what's going to happen to her, though.  I believe that she's still a hero of the Horn and will still be bonded to it after she dies again, but that's not what I'm talking about.<br /><br />So anyway, Rand defeats the Dark One, and I think we all agree that this makes him the GREATEST hero of all time.  Since the great heroes of the pattern are bonded to the Horn, this means that Rand will live on in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> untill he's spun out again.<br /><br />Now, this is where Rand lives.  Nynaeve saw Moghedien rip Birgitte out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, and she learns how to do something almost perfectly after she sees it only once.<br /><br />So Nynaeve, Elane, Min, Aviendah and Rand all arrange this big plan.  Nynaeve meets Rand in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>.  They go to a room where, in the waking world, Elayne, Min, and Aviendha are waiting.  Nynaeve rips Rand out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, right into the room where Rand's girls are waiting.  They all bond him again, saving his life (as it did Birgitte's).  It also has the bonus of Rand not being bonded to Alanna anymore, as he did die, and that breaks any bonds he had.<br /><br />This is how I believe Rand survives, he doesn't, but is instead reborn out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I must say I have a few problems with this...  Birgitte, for one, seems to think she won't still be tied to the Horn this time when she dies - and I would have to say she's the best expert at the moment.  I don't think the three girls bonding him will work since he's already bonded to all of them.  But I do like the idea of Rand's death ridding him of Alanna's bond, if it hasn't already been passed to Elayne by that point.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: Secret 'Friends' as Lightfriends (Warning: May Be Offensive)
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<p>For awhile now I've been reading theories suggesting the existence of "Light Friends". These are thought to be secretive people that serve the cause of the creator, while keeping themselves hidden. The only reason that I was able to envision for this idea was as a balance to Dark Friends. I initially rejected such an idea as an unnecessary counter to Friends of the Dark. After all good is the accepted standard while evil is the hidden path. It makes sense that those serving the Dark One would have to hide their allegiance since the majority of the world is for the light. Why, however would those serving the light to to keep to the shadows?  While it makes sense that the good guys would keep their plans a secret, there isn't any obvious reason to keep the fact that they are trying to further the cause of the light a mystery.<br /> <br />Then it hit me like a well swung sack of ter'angreal. Since the beginning of the series there has been a subset of good guys that have kept one aspect of their lives a very big secret. I refer of course to lesbians.<br /> <br />Okay some of you may be scartching your heads thinking 'huh?', but bear with me on this. For the first 7 books the WoT world had been presented as being occupied by heterosexuals and nothing else. Then in the "New Spring" short story that RJ did for the LEGENDS anthology we learned that Moiraine and Siuan were once lovers and that the discreet term for lesbians (at least among Aes Sedai) is 'Pillow Friends'. Further down the road in Winters Heart we find out that Harines windfinder (who's name escapes me) had been having an affair with one of the Cairheinin noble women that was plotting against Rand. Even among other women the two of them tried to keep it a secret.<br /> <br />If you read the section on the Aiel culture in the BWB (that's big white book, the illustrated guide) you'll find that according to custom when an Aiel man marries two women those women are married to each other. This tells us that in the Aiel culture lesbianism is acceptable (at least if there's a man involved). This also seems to be something that the Aiel keep secret from 'Wetlanders'. Now sure you could argue that they aren't communicative with those outside the Dragon Wall anyway, but recall also that the Aiel aren't shy when it comes to talking about sex with others. They seem only to hold back the fact that women don't necessarily need a man involved to have some fun on a saturday night. Could this secret be held because of a stipulation in the prophecies of Rhuidean that only the wiseones are privy to? I think so.<br /> <br />So far all of the lesbians we've seen are good guys. Moiraine, Siuan, that seafolk windfinder gal, the Cairhienin noble woman, those two Aes Sedai in the tower that initiated the hunt for the Black ajah who someone commented on acting like pillowfrieds, all of them good girls (even if the last three mentioned are a bit misguided). The only evil woman that we've seen who has shown interest in having sex with other women is Arangar. She doesn't even count though because she's a man that got transplanted into a womens body. That's what makes her so evil, she's actually a man trying to inviltrate the secret and and sacred sapho world that should only belong to women (well that and the fact that she's a cold blooded murderer who sold her soul to the forces of darkness, but that's another issue altogether).<br /> <br />All of this tells me that lesbians arehaving to keep their love lives a secret because of a part they will need to play at Tarmon Gai'don. I'm sure that there's probably a part of the Kaerthon Cycle, the Procephies of Rhuidean, the Jendai Prophecies, the Kaerthon cycle SeanChan edition, or some obscure message scralled on an out house wall during the trolloc wars to back all of this up. Sooner or later I'll track it down. <br /> <br />I mean think about the twin leashed A'dam that can have two women collaring a man. That clearly shows a way for two lesbian channelers to include a man in the fun while they keep control of it. Light for that matter look at the regualr A'dam and tell me that it isn't a bondage toy for SM games among channeling women that the Seanchan have been misusing for centuries.<br /> <br />By now I'm sure that some people are thinking 'okay Savaunts gone over board, this guy really needs to get a girlfriend'. You could try to argue that Robert Jordan either A) Wanted to be realistic in portraying sexuality in his world or B) is like most guys and really really digs on girl/girl stuff. With either explanation one could further say that he waited so long because he didn't want to turn readers off early in the series or start a lot of controversy before he got the momentum rolling on the story he's wanting to tell. You could say those things, but you'd be dead wrong and totally naive. Afterall we all know that RJ NEVER does anything with out a motive (usually complex and hard to spot) behind it. The idea that he would introduce female only love relations this late in the game is just plain ludicrous.<br /> <br />Besides if A is true and he wants to be realisitc then why aren't there any gay men around yet? Why haven't we seen a portion of Mazrim Taims compound that other Ashamon refer to as the 'Pink Tower' yet? Hey wait, maybe he's going to have some of the forsaken or dreadlords turn out to be gay. That makes a good counter to the lesbians being for the light. Most people are more creep out by gay men than gay women. Most guys can get turned on by lesbians, but most gals are just as turned off as men when they think of two guys goin at it. So he could make it where lesbians are good and homosexual men are evil. Yeah I dig that.<br /> <br />Some of you might be out there thinking 'okay he might be onto something, but how are women being gay going to change one light blasted thing at Tarmon Gai'don?' Glad you theoretically asked that question (at least I hope someone did). See there are a lot of women out there in the world, hence a goodly portion of them are going to end up being pillow friends. A significant amount of said pillow friends are going to end up being channelers. A good many of those channeling pillow friends (Moiraine and Siuan to be sure) will be at the last battle. Something will have to be done to distract the attention of all those bad guys at Tarmon Gai'don. I think I know what that something is. All of these women could provide that, by stipping of their clothing and getting into a massive group grope session.  This will result in massive amounts of Aes Sedai kneeling for Rand.<br /> <br />That's right folks, the tide of the final battle will end up being turned by the biggest lesbian orgy ever seen (in this world at least)! I have a feeling that Rand will be the one to suggest this. Sooner or later Aviendha is bound to reveal the greatest secret that all non Aiel men have been kept in the dark about. When he springs this idea on the Amyrlin Seat (Egwene) she'll become furious that he could even think of revealing the most tenderly held secret of Aes Sedai in a cheap and lustful manner on the off chance that it will distract the enemy. Once Mat hears about this plan he'll probably make some comment like "I'd give my left eye to see that!". Egwene will then tell him to put his coins where his big mouth is. This will result in Mat Cauthon letting his left eye get plucked out of his skull as the price for the greatest show in the world (thus will have to give up half the light of his world, to save the world).<br /> <br />All of the Ashaman, and soldiers can be fitted with blinders, and the non pillow loving Aes Sedai can provide assistance. When the plan goes into effect a large portion of the enemy will be just dazzled and awe struck by this sigtht. For that matter maybe even Ol Shai'tan himself will twist his wicked neck around to get a glimpse of all the fun (oh wow did I ever pick the perfect time to break out of that prison guys). That gives Rand the golden opportunity to move in for the kill. Right as Shai'tan is dying a stray blast form an Ashamon will hit Rand (who's gotten careless and decided to take a look himself) and cause him to start bleeding himself. He will then reach out to the creator and draw on the ever elusive counterpoint to the True Power and use it to save/restore his life. Not so much to be there after the last battle and rebuild the world, mainly because he'll be wanting to see the rest of the spectacle. With all the Saidar and and Saidin flowing around like spiced punch, and being wielded by a bunch of lust crazed people they just might end up breaking the world with out even realizing it.<br /> <br />After all is said and done the Ashaman and Aes Sedai will have bonded and found something to start the road of reconcilliation. The various nations of the world will come together in the spirit of love and exploration of a birght new future. Wolves will finally be left alone by most humans (hey had to put the wolves in somewhere). Changes will start to be affected to make a more open and diverse atmosphere (even for those Ashaman that prefer leather). Suldam and Damane will finally be able to put aside generations of misunderstanding and use those A'dam for there original purpose. Millions of readers will shout 'Are you kidding me that was it? The world get's saved through softcore lesbian shennanigans?'. And the Wheel of Time will keep on turning even if it is to a different tune.<br /> <br />I don't have a lot of evidence to support this theory, but hey when has that ever stopped someone from posting one? Suffice it to say that I'm just really sure this is gonna happen for no particular reason. It strikes as a totally unlikely and ludicrous way to do things, and would certainly be a bit anit-climactic. I refuse however to let go of the non-reason based theory.<br /> <br />Besides you gotta admit, even if it is a bit silly it certainly makes more sense than the Taimendred theory.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I don't really have any thoughts to add to this, other than to say it seems the idea of a huge lesbian orgy winning the Last Battle for the good guys is rather unlikely...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Hell yeah!  Let's all write to RJ about this, maybe if he gets a big enough group of people who wants this, he might alter the end.  Then we can all get nekkid!!!<br /></p><p><br />But seriously...no, nevermind, this isn't a post to be serious in.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: Retort to Absolutely Paradoxical
body:
<p>Thisa is in response to the theory that suggest a paradox loop with Moirain writing a letter to Thom after she went through the Wise One's ring in Rhuidean. <br /> <br />Recall that in FoH she was thinking about the how the rings (well the one that she went through anyhow) showed her the possible futures that were layed out before her. In her letter to Rand she mentioned that nearly all of those futures led to that day on the docks. In all those viewings of the docks there were three possiblities that kept coming up again and again and they are as follows:<br /> <br />1. She watched Rand die, and the world die with him.<br /> <br />2. Lanfear subdues Rand and absconded with him. She then returned with a Rand Al'Thor looking guy that called himself Lews Therin.<br /> <br />3. Moiraine and Lanfear tumbled into the doorway to the tower of Ghenji.<br /> <br />Only one of these three events actually occurred (three guesses and the first two don't count). So the fact that Moiraine wrote the letters to Rand and Thom didn't really matter. These were POSSIBLE FUTURES, not actual prophecies. So even if she wrote a letter to Thom asking him to save her it doesn't matter if she foresaw the writing of it or not.<br /> <br />The next point to make is that there was no logistical reason for her to write such a letter at all. She had obviously steeled herself to the inevitable and was willing to sacrifice her life (or so she thought) to save Rand. Even if she had wanted to write a letter it was impractical to think that she did because she knew that the chances of Thom getting it in time were very slim. After all the letter was given to Rand the very day that Moiraine had known she would have to make her showdown with Lanfear. <br /> <br />This is a rather clear indication that whatever she wrote to Thom had nothing to do with her fight against Lanfear. The most likely thing is that she told him the truth that she had promised and gave him the names of the Red Ajah members that had gentled Owyn and possibly violated Tower Law by not taking him to trial (let's recall that it hasn't been made claer yet {to my best recolection anyway} if Owyn went to the tower or not). If he has information that it was done without following Tower Law (and odds are that it would involve Elaida if that's the case) then Thom can finally have the means to avenge his nephew. <br /> <br />In my mind Moiraines reasoning for sending that info to Thom go beyond just keeping her promise to him. She probably felt genuinely sorry for the way she talked him into going to Tanchio with the girls. Recall that she brought up the fact that Thom had been delayed in going to Owyns rescue because he had been to busy with the game of houses in Andor. This is a personal guilt that the man has held close in his heart for years. He's never forgiven himself for letting his kin down. That was the impetus for helping out Rand and Mat back in EotW. When Moiraine threw that guilt into his face, it brought him to tears (that he held back til she had left). She probably knew that it would. So in the end Moiraine likely felt that regarless of the fact that she needed to talk him into helping Nynaeve and Elayne keep safe (and that it was the only method she could use), that she owed something back to Thom for so callously mistreating him. She may have been one cold calculating woman, but she still had some kind of a heart.<br /> <br />It's been touch upon that there may also be another interpretation to Mins veiwing (or was it Egwenes dream) of Thom pulling Moiraines blue stone out of a fire. I don't recall who said it first, but Egwene now has that stone. With her forces being so small, the chances that may lose the seige of Tar Valon are very high. It's also been noted that Gareth Bryne has a goodly amount of similarity to Robert E. Lee. This could mean that the battle may not go the way that the Salidar Crew are hoping for.<br /> <br />Egwene has already had a vision of a headmans axe coming for her neck, and some one riding like the wind to save her. That someone could end up being Thom Merrilin riding with  Mat Cauthon and the band of the Red Hand. If everyones favorite Gleeman shows up at the Tower with proof that Elaida do Avrihny a Roihan was part of an expedition of Red Ajah that broke tower law and gentled men without trial (or even that she had known about it and covered it up) then a lot of things will happen. Ms. Roihan will be hung out to dry, the Red Ajah will have lost face for a looong time to come (and the lies that Logain started about being hired as a false dragon for their benefit will gain a lot of credibility), and the Tower Aes Sedai will have to accept the cold hard fact that they let the kind of woman that'd do this usurp the Amyrlin seat. All of this will put Egwene Al'Veres chances of gaining the the seat as recognized by both factions of Aes Sedai at very good.<br /> <br />On another note I'm wondering where people are getting the idea that Thom and Moiraine will fall in love and get married. First off Thom has had an active dislike of Aes Sedai on general principles for years. Secondly he's probably still not over the loss of his assistant gal (from TGH). He's got a problem with getting close to anyone now that the last two relationships that he's had with a woman have ended so badly. Combine those two together and the idea of him being comfortable with getting invlolved with Moiraine Damodred seem very unlikely.<br /> <br />Then there's Moiraine. First off I don't think Thom is her type, what with him being a man and all. I may be wrong about this (if I am and someone wants to correct me please do) but I don't think Moiraine is heterosexual. The only lover that she's ever had (that I can think of) was Siuan Sanche back when they were both novices. There was never any indication that her interactions with Lan were anything but platonic (I seem to recall a passage in one of the first 5 books where she was thinking about the women that he'd bedded during his time as her Warder). The only time I can recall her even thinking about a man in terms of sexual interactions was when she reflected on the scenarios she'd seen in the rings of Rhuidean where she had taken Rand to her bed. The impression that I'd gotten was that she was recalling possible futures where she did that not out of any kind of attraction, but to get on his good side quicker. She recalled that all such scenarios had come out badly. <br /> <br />Moiraine has been the kind of woman that has spent most of her life being busy with causes (she is a blue), and has devoted very little time to thoughts of love in her own life. When she get's back to the regular WoT world (by wich time my kids may be reading the books) she will have a lot of work to do. Once Tarmon Gai'don is over she will still be an Aes Sedai (assuming she comes out alive and unstilled), unless she makes a drastic change in her personality she will most likely want to continue devoting her time to helping the world (which is gonna need it).<br /> <br />I'm not saying that the idea of Moiraine and Thom ending up married is totally unrealistic. They would make an interesting couple if nothing else. However considering their differences I do have trouble seeing it.<br /> <br />One final note, can we be sure that she's going to come back the way most people seem to think? The prevalent theory is that a group (that will include Thom among others) of good guys will enter on of those doorways (or the tower of Ghenji) and bring her back out. Who's to say that she's still alive. Remember that one way or another, Lanfear died after she went through that door. Maybe Moiraine did too. This need not prove Min Viewing about Rand needing Moiraines help wrong though. Perhaps she could come back as some form of ghost, or existing in the unseen world of dreams. I think that given her accomplishments she would qualify as a hero since those seem to be the only ones who wait there. If this is so then we could all get a big shock to see her show up the next time Mat plays a tune on a certain horn. That would definitely be a great way to bring her back.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Hmm...Moiraine as a Hero...somehow I think there is more to it than acknowledging Rand as the Dragon Reborn.  Also, you must remember that Moiraine will have aged differently.  It seemed that throughout the theory, there was an underlying hint that the age gap would be too much.  She is Aes Sedai, she may be as old as him, maybe older. (How old if Thom anyway?)<br /></p><p><br />What you say might be a possibilty, but I am still leaning towards Thom saving Moiraine, just to be a conservative. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: The Heroes Summoned
body:
<p>I don't know if anyone's asked this question or not but the idea only came to me after reading the other theories about Lews Therin, Gaidal Cain, Jain Farstrider etc.<br /> <br />The Prophecies say that the sounding of the Horn of Valere will summon the Dead Heroes of the Ages to fight for the Dragon Reborn at the last battle.  We know that this can be changed if a Darkfriend sounds the horn but as it turns out, Mat did.  Have any of you thought that after the initial fight at Falme the heroes might start to become Reborn?  The Prophecies don't say how they will sumon the heroes - maybe the heroes are being summoned in the FLESH to fight for the Dargon and his Banner.<br /> <br />Just a thought.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> And an interesting thought at that.  The logistics of the horn were never really explained, and this might be an outcome of such blowing.<br /></p><p><br />But, if there were to start being reborn in the flesh, I would think they wouldn't be old enough to fight in a war that is soon approaching.  They might be just a buit young to fight in the battle that the fat of the world hinges upon.  But it could be like what Mesaana did, and create a whole school to the Ways of the Dark one.  Hmm, an army of Hero-reborn children running off to svae the world with the Dragon Reborn.  Somehow, it doesn't seem likely.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: Other Rands
body:
<p>I remember in The great Hunt that when Rand transported a large amount<br />of people to the falme, they ran through all the different lives they<br />could've lived.<br /><br />There was one important note, and that was that all the other worlds<br />failed to stop the Darkone, and that theirs was the last world, and if<br />one could win, the wheel was safe.<br /><br />I believe that if this Tarmon Gaidin is really the last last battle,<br />Rand could quite possibly travle through a few of the thousands and<br />thousands of worlds and perhaps bring "other Rands" back with him.<br /><br />And I'm not saying this is very likely, because there hasn't been any<br />foreshadowing that I can recall that supports this theory, and most of<br />the really good theories have verse in a prophesy, or a dream of the<br />future, or even a viewing from Min.<br /><br />But it would be pretty cool, if Rand brought back 7 Rands, and they all came together to form the sheild on the Dark One's prison.<br /><br />Unfortunately, when Rand did travel through the other worlds, each<br />person embodied himself in that world, so perhaps there isn't any "extra Rands lying around"<br /><br />Geez, I'm probably the first person to submit a theory, then prove that it was false.<br /><br />well whatever</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The "other Rands" Rand say were glimpse of alternate futures.  They aren't seperate weavings of the pattern, just possibilities Rand would encounter if different things had occured in his previous life.  And in each alternate life, Rand died, so I think he's better off just sticking to himself.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: Lanfear or Moiraine?
body:
<p>Ok here is my two cents. In a Crown of Swords, Min tells Rand that he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone.  I know a lot of people believe this to be Moiraine.  But it is possible that this woman could be Lanfear aka Cyndane.  This being that it is believed she is dead.  We all know her to be tied to Moridin with the Mindtrap, and perhaps she realizes that if she is pretty much a servent to Moridin there is no chance for her to be named Nae'blis.  Therefore perhaps she will somehow get in touch with Rand and Rand will perhaps come of a way to free her from Moradin and the Mindtrap and Lanfear will come back to the Light and in part help Rand at<br />the Last Battle.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The possibility of Lanfear turning to the light is about as plausible as pigs flying.  I think Lanny is so far gone in the Shadow, she wouldn't know what to do otherwise.  I still hold strong by saying Moiraine is the gal to come back.  I hope....<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-22 00:00:00
subject: Sammael is Slayer's Master
body:
<p>In Winter's Heart we see that Slayer has been receiving orders from a male channeler who wishes to hide his identity. Now there are only two people who could possibly want to hide their identity to Slayer: Taim and Sammael. <br /><br />I think that Taim is very unlikely since I doubt he even knows who Slayer is. Also I think that he is power hungry instead of a dark friend. If he were a dark friend then I do not think he would have tried to dissuade Rand at choosing Dashiva at Dumai's Wells. Also I don't think he would have been ignorant to Moridin's orders to have Rand killed (we see he is when he tells one of the rebel Asha'man to kill Rand).<br /><br />This leaves Sammael. I never believed that Sammael was dead. I cannot believe that RJ would build up the character of Sammael so far and end it so unconvincingly. I believe that Sammael escaped Shadar Logoth in one of two ways. One would be to use the True Power. We have heard often that Sammael will pay large prices if it advantaged him. The other could be the many ter'angrael he seemed to have. One could have been used to create an illusion of himself that Rand 'killed.' And so Sammael, in my view, has been hiding from both <br />Rand and the forsaked. Why? Because it would give him a huge strategic advantage if he could work without anyone's knowledge.<br /><br />And, as you can see this gives him the perfect reason to hide his face from Slayer yet still work on his plans. He hides his face from Slayer so that he would not tell the other forsaken, especially Moridin.<br /><br />Well, this is my first post so don't be too scrupulous.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Two things.<br /></p><p><br />1.) Sammael is dead, he said so himself in a chat discussion.  "Sammael is toast." Verbatim.<br /></p><p><br />2.) Taim <i>is</i>, becuae he had orders to kill Rand.  <br /></p><p><br />So, better luck next time.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-05-31 00:00:00
subject: Setalle Anan: The One who is No Longer
body:
<p>Here is my theory as to who Setalle Anan really is, and who the One Who is no Longer is..... <br /><br />The key to finding the bowl is to find the one who is no longer." [LOC: 19, Matters of Toh, 436]  The Bowl of the Winds has been found by Elayne and Nynaeve.  But "The One who is no Longer" is still a mystery. Or maybe not. <br /><br />If one considers the whole chain of events leading to the discovery of the Bowl, the most likely candidate is Setalle Anan, the innkeeper of the Wandering Woman. Is she just a simple innkeeper? <br /><br />Her words and actions speak otherwise.... <br />[ACoS 22,Small Sacrifices,48<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" />  "Trying to keep up the lie does no good, Nynaeve. You look to be, oh, twenty-one give or take a year, so you might be as much as ten years older if you've already reached the slowing. You might have even have worn the shawl four or five years. Except for one thing." Her head, the only part of her she could mave, swiveled toward Elayne. "You, child, arent old enough to have slowed yet, and no woman has ever worn the shawl as young as you. Never in the history of the Tower." <br /><br />After Setalle Anan tells Ny and El that they can't be AS because Elayne is too young-looking, Elayne thinks: "Slowed. Slowing. How did an innkeeper in Ebou Dar know those words? Maybe Setalle Anan had gone to the Tower as a girl, though she would not have remained long, since she clearly could not channel. Elayne would have known even if her ability had been as small as her own mother's." [ACOS: 22, Small Sacrifices, 48<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br />Even stranger is the attitude of the Kin. To everybody, they are arrogant and condescending. Except for Aes Sedai. They pretty much worshipped the floor that an Aes Sedai walked on (not surprising, since they once wanted and some still want to become Aes Sedai). How do they act towards Anan? [ACOS 23, Next Door to a Weaver, 502]: Reanne is apologizing to Anan: "The Anan woman and Reanne Corly entered the sitting room, and Nynaeve blinked in surprise. From the exchange, she had expected someone younger than Setalle Anan, but Reanne had hair more gray....Why would the older woman humble herself so to the younger, and why would the younger allow it, however halfheartedly?" <br /><br />Hmm.....I believe that Setalle Anan was an Aes Sedai at one time.....but is no longer......she cant channel the One Power at all...  There are two ways that a former AS could acheive this fate....To be burned out or stilled...Most likely, she was burned out, b/c all Novices are required to learn the names of all of the stilled Aes Sedai and their crimes....sometimes, they are kept in the White Tower to do meaningless work, in the example of Bonwhin, who was kept as a servant after she was stripped of stole and staff. <br /><br />Why do I think she's an Aes Sedai? well, there are several clues..... <br />1. When Anan meets Garenia, she says, "Your name is Garenia? You look very much like someone I met once. Zarya Alkaese." [ACOS: 23, Next Door to a Weaver, 504]. Garenia puts her off by saying that Zarya Alkaese was her great-aunt, but we find out in [TPOD: 28, Crimsonthorn, 542] that Garenia is Zarya Alkaese herself, and ran away from the Tower seventy years ago. Setalle Anan has only "a touch of gray in her hair." [ACOS: 22, Small Sacrifices, 381], so if she were a normal person, she couldn't possibly be ninety or more years old. Thus, we must conclude that Anan must have channelled at some point in her past, because she "slowed" at some point-- there is no way she looks the hundred years old or so she that would be if she met Zarya when she was "younger than you [Garenia] are now." [ACOS: 23, Next Door to a Weaver, 395]. (Garenia looks "no older than Nynaeve." ) <br /><br />2.This would explain why the Kin are so deferential to her.....They dont even speak out against her: [ACOS: 24, The Kin, 404]: Garenia is carrying on: '"What of this Setalle Anan, then? Those girls know about the Circle. The Anan woman must have told them, though how she knows....She's an innkeeper, and she must be taught to guard her tongue!" Berowin gasped, wide-eyed with shock, and dropped into a chair so hard she nearly bounced. "Remember who she is, Garenia," Reanne said sharply. "If Setalle had betrayed us, we would be crawling to Tar Valon, begging forgiveness the whole way....She has kept the few secrets she knows from gratitude, and I doubt that has faded. She would have died in her first childbirth if the Kin had not helped her. What she knows comes from careless tongues...and the owners of those tongues were punished more than twenty years ago." Still, she wished there was some way she could bring herself to ask Setalle to be more circumspect.'  <br /><br />So Setalle Anan is regarded as somebody who they don't dare offend, even to ask to be more circumspect. From the "crawling to Tar Valon" remark, we have evidence that Anan has the ability to betray the Kin to Tar Valon, or at least the Kin perceive her as having that ability. In this passage, it's possible that Reanne is reminding Garenia that Setalle is a former Aes Sedai. Garenia no doubt has heard of the former sister making a new life for herself, but only by her new name. Garenia seems to want to know who Setalle was before she took the name Setalle. <br /><br />3. Anan's attitude and behavior: "She's not at all unsettled by being held by the Power" [ACOS: 22, Small Sacrifices, 383]. As Elayne thinks, Anan knows far too much about AS, and throws around AS terms far too naturally for her to have had no contact with AS. "Why would the older woman humble herself so to the younger, and why would the younger allow it, however halfheartedly?" Especially since Reanne, at 400 or so, is much older than Anan. This is true even if Anan was AS, since the longest known lifespan of a modern AS is around 300 years. This deference would make sense if Reanne knew Anan had been AS. She is not scared of Aes Sedai in the least....in fact, she bullies one around. {WH 19: Three Women, 39<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> "'If you will not listen to him, Joline Maza, you will listen to me.' Planting her hands on her hips, Setalle Anan rounded on the slender Aes Sedai, her hazel eyes glaring. 'I mean to see you back in the White Tower if I have to walk every step of the way pushing you! Perhaps along the way you will show me that you know what it means to be an Aes Sedai'." No normal person who take that tone with an Aes Sedai, especially when her two Warders were right there.... <br /><br />4.Anan was at the Tower seventy years ago when Garenia/Zarya was a novice. If Anan was only a failed Novice or Accepted, as Elayne supposes, then Garenia would not fear that she'd turn her in, and Reanne would not be so deferential to her, so Anan must have been Aes Sedai. Something happened to burn her out, and she completely lost the ability to channel. She moved to Ebou Dar and got married. This must have been 20 years ago or more, since Anan has grown children. <br /><br />5. She is even familiar to an Aes Sedai, Joline Maza. [WH 29: Another Plan, 556] "Joline picked up the lamp by the iron box and moved it to cast light on the innkeeper's face.  'Have we met somewhere before? Sometimes, when I cannot see you face, your voice sounds familiar'." <br /><br />6. She has an idea that she can become a sul'dam....[WH 29: Another Plan,556]  "Not every woman can be a sul'dam. You should know that by now. I have hopes that I can, but better we find out before the last hour."  What makes her think she can be a sul'dam? because she used to be able to channel? but she cannot be a sul'dam...when Joline puts it on and starts walking, she starts going into convulsions....The Seanchan Empress sometimes amuses herself by having men and women put on a sul'dam....and so from the results of those amusements, we find out that convulsions only happen with two types of would-be sul'dams...males, and burnt out channelers.....well, well..... <br /><br />One could also venture to put a name on Setalle Anan when she was an Aes Sedai... In the Path of Daggers, Vandene mentions a certain sister who burned herself out, a Martine Janata..... [TPOD: 2, Unweaving, 73-74]  "She was the last sister to really make a business of studying ter'angreal...She did it for forty years, almost from the time she reached the shawl... Then one day, Martine's maid found her unconscious on the floor of her sitting room. Burned out...That was more than twenty-five years ago...She vanished once she was well enough to slip out of the Tower... <br /><br />The timing on this matches.... <br /><br />1.Setalle gave birth to her first child more than twenty years ago.  [ACoS 24:The Kin, 405] <br /><br />2. Martine Janata was burned out more than twenty-five years ago and left the Tower.<br /><br />3. Martine Janata was raised to the shawl over sixty-five years ago.<br /><br />4. Garenia aka Zarya Alkaese ran away from the Tower seventy years ago... <br /><br />So Martine was made a sister well over sixty-five years ago. Garenia ran away seventy years ago. Setalle recognized Garenia as Zarya though she certainly never considered Garenia to be Zarya. <br /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> I agree wholeheartedly.  There always was more to Setalle Anan than what met the eye. I'm certain that she was once an Aes Sedai, and the timing all seems to fit.  Very nice theory, well supported by quotes, me likes! <img src="http://35.10.40.62/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-11 00:00:00
subject: Death and Resurrection of Rand at the Last Battle
body:
<p>The prophecies seem to require that at the last battle Rand has to die in order to defeat the Dark One.  ('His blood on the rocks')  Is there any way for Rand to get around this?  There is.  Rand could sacrifice his life and die just as prophecy requires, and then then he could be resurrected from the dead. <br /><br />There is a strong analogue between the life of Rand and the life of Jesus, and in the biblical story Jesus was resurrected from the dead.  If the analogue holds then Rand could be resurrected also.<br /><br />By resurrection I don't mean a re-birth.  I mean an immediate resurrection where by the wounds that killed Rand are reversed and fully healed, and Rand lives again in the same body.<br /> <br />Such a resurrection could be carried out by Nynaeve, who is supposed to be perhaps the strongest Aes Sedai in the Healing arts for thousnads of years.  The two greatest sa'angreal ever built (the man and woman statues) could provide suffcient power, and she could also link to other channellers.  Other ter'angreal may also need to be bought into play.  It is to anticapted that a weave powerful enough to actually resurrect the dead would be 'a one-off' , perhaps involving a sacrifice of life and the 'burning out' of the<br />sa'angreal.  Its possible that the Creator himself may play a hand for this last greatest weave to work. <br /><br />In <u>The Shadow Rising</u> there is a striking scene whereby Rand actually attempts to resurrect a dead girl (Pg 190).  The strong emotional import with which Jordan imparts this scene is hinting at a resurrection at the last battle.<br /><br />Again in <u>The Fires Of Heaven</u> (Pg 176) we learn of Nynaeves joy at Healing, and her belief that there is nothing that cannot be healed if the channeller is determined enough.  This hints that perhaps Nynave could heal death itself.<br /> <br />Also in <u>The Fires Of Heaven</u> (Pg 147) Rand is thinking about the two great sa'angreal and he suddenly has a flash-back to his attempt to resurrect the dead girl.  He actually speculates that with the power of the two great sa'angreal death itself could indeed be rolled back. <br /><br />In conclusion, the idea that Rand may die and be resurrected by Nynaeve at The Last Battle is a stunning and depply satisfying idea that is strongly supported by explicit hints in the text.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The idea is very appealing, but to stick to my own guns, I still think Rand isn't going to <i>die</i> at Shayol Ghul.  I think he's gonna get a big ol gash across his chest or something, and he falls to the ground, thought dead by others.  Then he stands up or something and defeats the DO.  His blood is definitely spilt (sp?), he survives with a nasty scar.  <br /></p><p><br />Also, prophecy is not meant to be taken at face value.  It's one of the plot twists used so many times in Fantasy, the mistake of misinterpreting a prophecy.   "His blood on the rocks" copuld mean 1)he dies 2) He gets a big wound and is huryt badly 3) The Aiel are killed by the thousands (Aiel are his blood, his actual family) or 4)Elayne, pregnant with Rand's baby, may give birth at Shayol Ghul, though I consider this one a little hokey.<br /></p><p><br />My two cents.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-11 00:00:00
subject: Anath = Semirhage
body:
<p>Most people are fairly certain that Anath is Semirhage, but I just thought I would make them VERY sure. Here goes...<br /><br />Description of Anath in <u>Winter's Heart</u> Chapter 14, "What a Veil Hides"<br /><b>1</b>) It was less than two years since Neferi's [her former Truthspeaker] unexpected death.<br /><b>2</b>) She [Tuon] still was not comfortable with her replacement [Anath]<br /><b>3</b>) Anath was standing... in unrelieved black silk,<br /><b>4</b>) outwardly undisturbed by the chill wind in spite of her lack of a cloak or cape<br /><b>5</b>) A slender woman, she would have been tall for a man<br /><b>6</b>) Her charcoal face was beautiful ... large black eyes<br /><b>7</b>) named by the Empress... when Neferi died. A surprise, with Neferi's Left Hand trained and ready to replace her.<br /><b>8</b>) You certainly were not supposed to be afraid of your Soe'feia, yet Tuon was<br /><b>9</b>) she cursed Neferi for dying by something as stupid as falling down stairs<br /><b>10</b>) Anath drew herself up, lips compressing. Her eyes glittered. "I am sure Suroth only had the best intrests of the Empire for ambition.<br /><b>11</b>) Anath purred. "you must not let him learn how dangerous you are to him until it is too late for him to escape<br /><br />Chapter 17 "Pink Ribbons"<br /><b>12</b>) The too-familiar Seanchan drawl seemed absent entirely.<br /><b>13</b>) "Suroth has the situation here well in control"<br /><br />Description of Semirhage in <u>Lord of Chaos</u><br />Prologue: The First Message<br /><b>14</b>) Not even Demandred suggested to Semirhage's face that she wore black so often because Lanfear wore only white<br /><b>15</b>) Semirhage took delight in cruelty<br /><b>16</b>) Semirhage raised her eyes... unblinking dark eyes in a smooth dark face <br /><b>17</b>) Semirhage stood taller than most men<br /><br />Chapter 6, "Threads Woven in Shadow"<br /><b>18</b>) She did not like having to hurry. And to be called away from her charge; the girl was willful and obdurate, the circumstances difficult.<br /><b>19</b>) "Your owner does not take good care of you" she said [to Cabriana's warder]<br /><br />Physical Description<br /><b>a</b>) 3 agrees with 14<br /><b>b</b>) 5 agrees with 17<br /><b>c</b>) 6 agrees with 16<br /><b>d</b>) 12 suggests Anath is not seanchan by birth<br /><br />Mystery surrounding Anath<br /><b>e</b>) 1 is highly probably Forsaken caused - Neferi's death would be some time after the end of The Eye of the World, at which time presumably all the Forsaken were freed<br /><b>f)</b> 4 is highly suggestive of concentration used to repress heat or cold, which Aes Sedai, Ashaman and Forsaken are familiar with<br /><b>g</b>) 7 and 9 add to 1 making Neferi's death very suspicious and most likely cause by the forces of darkness<br /><b>h</b>) 2 and 8 further add to the unnaturalness of Anath, and also agree with 15 - Anath seems to love this job<br /><b>i</b>) 10 and 13 shows that Anath supports Suroth, who is high among Darkfriends <br /><b>j</b>) 11 implies Anath is anxious to see Rand go down / be controlled<br /><br />Hints from Semirhage:<br /><b>k</b>) 18 is almost definitely a reference to Tuon. She is young and she is female, matching the description. Furthermore she admits she is headstrong, which agrees with "willful and obdurate".<br /><b>l</b>) 19 is an unusual comment from the "mainland" perspective where there is no slavery, but in Seanchan ownership is common.<br /><br />If you are not convinced now, I cannot do more <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />p.s. Anath goes on "retreat" towards the end of book 9 (just in time for the final scene)</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Wow, who can stand up to that?  I'd like to see someone go ahead and try.<br /></p><p><br />But seriously, nice evidence, and as of yet, I cant see a flaw.  Yet.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-12 00:00:00
subject: Mesaana = Danelle
body:
<p>RJ has, apparently, said that we now have enough information to identify ALL the Forsaken. And we have, with two exceptions: Demandred and Mesaana. I won't get into the Taimandred debate, but I am sure we can identify Mesaana.<br /><br />She is Danelle, the Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah involved in the Tower Coup. And yes, I do have proof.<br /><oi><br /><ni>1. She is young. It would be easier to imitate a young Aes Sedai, than an older one with a "history".<br /><br /></ni><ni>2.She has no friends. If you have no friends, they can't notice you are really a Forsaken in disguise.<br /><br /></ni><ni>3. She was involved in the Tower coup. The Forsaken have been commanded to "spread chaos.". What better way than that?<br /><br /></ni><ni>4. She is Brown. Mesaana was a teacher who went to the Dark because she was not allowed to be a scientist. Also, Browns are reclusive and a slight change of personality/short disappearance would be unlikely to be noticed.<br /><br /></ni><ni>5. She is described as "dreamy", and Siuan is suprised to find her in a coup. Mesaana was described in the Guide as "dreamy, but underneath hardheaded and practical."<br /><br /></ni><ni>6. Also in the Guide, she is described as being "more interested in real power than the appearance of it." This fits a woman disguising herself as a young, friendless, harmless Aes Sedai while in reality she is ordering around the Keeper of the Chronicles, who in turn is pulling the strings on the Amyrlin Seat. <br /><br /></ni><ni>7. Again, RJ has said we have enough information. There are no other real candidates who fit the profile of Mesaana. Laras has been suggested, but she has a too obvious history, and she would be too busy. Also, she is a good cook. Of course, we have no evidence that Mesaana isn't, but really.....<br /><br /></ni><ni>8.Who else fits, we have heard of for more than two lines, is friendless,  is in the Tower, and doesn't have a "history"? (e.g. has been an AS for 6 or less years, max ?)<br /><br />Therefore, Danelle=Mesaana. Now, what about Demandred......<br /><br />P.S.<br /><br />Aginor=Osan'gar=Dashiva=scatterd ashes<br />Asmodean=dead<br />Balthamel=Aran'gar=Halima<br />Be'lal=very dead<br />Demandred= ?(POSSIBLY Taim. Very controversial, however.......)<br />Graendal=the Lady Basene(<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br />Ishamael=Moridin<br />Lanfear=Cyndane<br />Mesaana=Danelle<br />Moghedien=Moghedien<br />Rahvin=even deader<br />Sammael=deadest<br />Semiraghe=Anath<br /><br />*Editors Note: Where did this come up from?  But thats a different theory all together.</ni></oi></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The identity of Mesaana is not as clear-cut as say Semiraghe's (Anath).  But the following is all speculation, a highly organized speculation, but a speculation nonetheless.  Course, all theories are.  Oh well.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-12 00:00:00
subject: The One Power and the True Power
body:
<p>This is a little long so bear with me.  I believe that there is a being greater than the Creator and the Dark One.  It was this being that created the True Source which is where the One Power and possibly the True Power come from.  Since everything in nature requires a balance, it is logical that the supernatural would need a "super" balance.  When the True Source was created, it divided into the One Power and the True Power so that it would stay balanced. <br /><br />If this is so, then it is also possible that the Creator is a manifestation of the One Power just as the Dark One is a manifestation of the True Power.  When these two beings were created, since they were so completely opposite from each other so as to keep the True Source balanced, they most likely were at each others throats all the time.  <br /><br />To show that it was the stronger of the two, the Creator made the Wheel of Time, the world, and all the rest of creation.  At the same time, it sealed away the Dark One behind a shield of the One Power.  Since their powers are so opposite of each other, the Dark One could not free itself on its own.<br /><br />Sealing up the Dark One created an inbalance in the True Source since it had, in effect, weakened the True Power half.  To correct this inbalance, the stronger half, the One Power, was divided into saidar and saidin.<br /><br />The Dark One was freed in Age two by men and women joining the two halves of the One Power to lift the barrier of the undivided barrier shielding the Dark One.  When Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions resealed the Dark One, they used only the male half of the One Power to create another barrier around it.  This seal was much less effective.  <br /><br />Since saidin did not have saidar to shield it from rubbing up on the True Power(and vice versa) whenever a male channeler touches the One Power he is also just barely touches the True Power.  So it's as if the male channelers all become wilders again.  If the same is true for teaching yourself to wield the True Power as is for the One Power, then the madness and rotting disease that they all go through is explained.  Also, when a male channeler turns himself over to the Shadow, he gains the Dark One's protection from touching the True Power untaught.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Hmm, it is a possibility, but the idea of being able to just faintly touch the True Power and thus be protected under the Dark One is a little iffy.  If that wrere true, why then have the forsaken created a bond with the DO?  It was a safety net not to become mad form Saidin.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-12 00:00:00
subject: The Origin of the Dark One
body:
<p>RJ says that the Creator and the DO are equal in stature (from RJ's Q&A; on Compuserve after ACoS) www.princeton.edu/~abergm.../chat5.txt ~<b><i>Broken Link</i></b>~<br /><br /><b>Martin Reznick asks</b>: How was the Dark One created, i.e. is he a fallen<br />angel, an inherent part of the universe, etc.?<br /><br /><b>Robert Jordan</b>: I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart,the dark balance if you will, to the creator... carrying on the theme, the ying yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books... it's somewhat manichian i know, but I think it works.<br /><br /><b>Martin Reznick asks</b>: Are there limits to the Dark One's power besides: inability to reincarnate balefired people, and his imprisonment. <br /><br /><b>Robert Jordan</b>: Obviously, there are some limits or he simply would have ripped the prison open and done as he wanted to do. RAFO!<br /><br />-----<br /><br />Now I had always imagined the DO as being a fallen angel (i.e. lesser in stature), but RJ is saying that they are equal in stature.<br /><br />A friend did some research on the word "manichian" that RJ used and came up with the following:<br /><br />"Manichæism is a religion founded by the Persian Mani in the latter half of the third century. It purported to be the true synthesis of all the religious systems then known, and actually consisted of Zoroastrian Dualism, Babylonian folklore, Buddhist ethics, and some small and superficial additions of Christian elements. As the theory of two eternal principles, good and evil, is predominant in this fusion of ideas and gives color to the whole, Manichæism is classified as a form of religious Dualism. It spread with extraordinary rapidity in both East and West and maintained a sporadic and intermittent existence in the West (Africa, Spain, France, North Italy, the Balkans) for a thousand years, but it flourished mainly in the land of its birth,(Mesopotamia, Babylonia, Turkestan) and even further East in Northern India, Western China, and Tibet, where, c. A.D. 1000, the bulk of the population professed its tenets and where it died out at an uncertain date."<br />www.newadvent.org/cathen/09591a.htm  ~<b><i>Broken link</i></b>~<br /><br />The religion/philosophy/cosmology of Randland is extremely dualist in all aspects. Remember what Verin says about the Mirror Worlds in TGH, that there are three constants: the Creator, the Dark One, and Tel'aran'rhiod. I believe that this means that the DO must be greater than a mere fallen angel, however powerful. Perhaps he was originally <i>part</i> of the Creator, the evil part. Perhaps one day the Creator decided to purge himself of these evil impulses, and imprisoned them, but they took on life of their own. I believe that this also means that T'a'r is the real root of Creation and that all of the worlds, Randland and Mirrors, grow out of T'a'r.<br /><br />The DO is not really imprisoned. He is just kept outside of the Pattern and the Wheel of Time --- the Creator's creations --- because the two of them are so perfectly balanced. That is why the DO needs human surrogates to help "free" him --- to allow him to enter the Creator's realm. Human surrogates are the only factor that can break the stalemate between the DO and the Creator. Both the DO and the Creator are outside the Pattern. Although they can both "touch" the world to some extent. Example 1: the DO put forth great strength to affect the weather. Example 2: the Creator speaks to Rand as seen in tEoTW, pg 758.<br /><br />So the Creator himself confirms that he "will take no active role and that only the chosen one can do what must be done" <br /><br />As for the DO's Chosen one, it is Moridin/Ishy. <br /><br />And as Ishy tells LTT in the prologue to EoTW, it has always been Ishy's soul and Rand's soul who battle each turn of the wheel. the creator does not take part in the world...but the DO tries...this is what sets off the balance. rands purpose isn't to kill the DO...if he did that then the good would have all control and no balance to be seen. rands purpose is to put the DO back in a place where he can't affect the world or the pattern...just like the creator.<br /><br />if the DO can no longer put his hand on the world then he is just like the creator...an outside entity. allowing the people to make his or her own choices on which side to take. that is what the balance is about. to seek the balance means there isn't any more fighting or struggles. it all stops and people are free from divine influence.<br /><br />Elan Morin Tendronai/Ishamael/Moridin is right. The fight between surrogates has been going on since the beginning of time and it won't end until (or if) the DO wins and is allowed to fully enter the Creator's creation. <br /><br />But  it's not as deterministic as that. There are a lot of variables. The number of heroes bound to the Wheel can increase: <br /><br />Artur Hawkwing to Hurin: <br />"Sometimes the Wheel adds to our number, friend. Perhaps you will find yourself among us, one day." (TGH, 662)<br /><br />Also, the Dragon Reborn can be the Shadow's champion as well as the<br />Creator's champion. It can and has happened before. I know people have been saying that this isn't true but I provide the following evidence: <br /><br />Artur Hawkwing to Rand: "I have fought by your side times beyond number, Lews Therin, and faced you as many more." (TGH, 661)<br /><br />Rand is only a surrogate, a tool. He can never "finish off" the Dark One. All Rand can hope for is to re-seal the Bore. Even this re-sealing isn't absolutely perfect, since when the AoL returns people like Mierin Eronaile and Beidomon detect the True Power from the place where the Bore used to be.<br /><br />The DO is a god, you cannot kill him. He has no coporeal form to destroy. You cannot balefire him for the same reason. Heck, he's not even part of the Pattern, you can't exactly burn his thread out.<br /><br />The Creator isn't more involved in the conflict because the conflict boils down to the free choices of surrogates. The Creator gives people the freedom to choose whether or not they want to follow the DO. Even the Dragon himself can turn to the Shadow. Getting involved would be like pulling strings on a puppet, like the DO does.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> *Sits there stunned*  I'm stunned!  I am speechless, I am without speech.  So concise.  Wow.<br /></p><p><br />The idea of DO being as immortal as the Creator seems appropriate in a way.<br /></p><p><br />Also, I remember reading or hearing about RJ saying why the Creator doesn't interfere with the world he created. It was along the lines of "if you had built the most beautiful and delicate ting possible, would you want to go around and toss it about?"  It was along the lines of fraility, and messing with it would somehow shatter it.  The DO just doens't seem to get the hint.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-12 00:00:00
subject: Rand and His One Hand
body:
<p>I'm currently rereading WoT, and came across an interesting point of note in <i>The Eye of the World</i>.<br /><br />On page 290 of the British paperback version, Moiraine is going on about the history of Aridhol, and its eventual turning to Shadar Logoth. <br /><br />This attracted my attention straight away as <i>Winter's Heart</i> clearly highlighted the importance of Shadar Logoth in this series.<br /><br />Anyway, Moiraine tells the story of how Prince Cerra Thorin's son, comes from Manetheren to broker a peace with Aridhol after their remittance from the Trolloc Wars. <br /><br />Prince Cerra has his hand cut off in response to this peace offer, and then leaves Shadar Logoth to go to the Borderlands, meets a woman there, and is lead to his own downfall.<br /><br />The interest of this to me is that later on in Moiraine's diatribe (page 292) she mentions about Lan and the Seven Towers. This all occurs about two days after meeting Min and her visions.<br /><br />Now (finally) the point of my theory is that if Moiraine is mentioning Lan directly, could it be that Prince Cerra is a representation of Rand? After all, "son of Thorin" is not a million miles away from "al'Thor," and Rand has just gone to Shadar Logoth to attain a type of peace between male and female channelers by removing the taint. I would therefore guess that Rand is going to lose his hand very quickly in the next installment of WoT, and this will be via Padan Fain (who as Mordeth was an instigator in Prince Cerra's punishment).<br /><br />Just a thought, but with the amount of foreshadowing that Jordan does, and the apparent importance of Shadar Logoth, evidence like this can't be ignored.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I'm not sure what to say about this particular theory, since I don't recall the story mentioned well enough off the top of my head to come up with any intelligent comments  But somehow I just have trouble seeing Rand losing his hand any time soon (if ever).  Just my gut feeling, no real reason. <br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-12 00:00:00
subject: Olver and Gaidal Cain
body:
<p>I understand that while Olver is eight to ten years old and Gaidal Cain was at Falme less than two years ago we have to consider what being "reborn" means.  Perhaps in this world, the heroes are "reborn" in a different fashion than we are thinking of.  I mean perhaps the heroes are being spun into a body after its birth and not during.<br /><br />Also, it is important to realize that no one quite understands the way time works in The World of Dreams. Some time travel theories (involving more quantum physics than I feel comfortable explaining) state that through the use of wormholes, it is possible to leave the destination wormhole in one time before you enter it (the departure wormhole) in the other time as time is very out of joint.  It is possible that as <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> is out of joint with the real world time wise, perhaps the same principle applies here.<br /><br />Thirdly, if Olver is indeed Gaidal Cain reborn, there is a chance that the part of Olver that remembers being Cain (as Rand remembers being Lews Therin) dreamed himself into <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> during Olver's nap time just in time for the Horn's call. I realize that this sounds very shaky, but after re-reading <i>Winter's Heart</i> I came across a passage I am not sure has been mentioned yet that convinced me that Olver was Gaidal Cain.  On page 296 of my copy Min and Aviendha are trying to keep Birgitte from barging in on Elayne and Rand having a little hookie-dookie, when Min thinks this:<br /><br />"...she was certain they indicated more adventures than a woman could have in one lifetime.  Strangely, some were connected to an ugly man who was older than she (Cain), and others to an ugly man who was much younger (Olver), yet somehow Min knew they were the same man."<br /><br />Now, of course, the parenthetical notes were not in the book, but it is not a far stretch to make this deduction.   As we all know when Min knows what her viewing means it is true and she knows they are the same man.  I feel that while still somewhat circumspect this is almost indisputable proof that Olver is indeed Gaidal Cain reborn.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have only had time to read <i>Winter's Heart</i> once so far, though at the moment I'm starting to read the entire WoT series all over again.  This is a good passage (which I do sorta remember) to support the entire Olver is Gaidal Cain theory that I have always been a big fan of.  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-20 14:57:23
subject: Concering that Bloody Blood Drinker...
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<p>The other day, I was thinking over the ending battle scene of Winter's Heart, and it got me thinking...  Most of the Forsaken took active part in the battle, which means they were committed to it very much...  Now, what if one of them had something that would ensure their victory, without risking their own lives, wouldn't they use it?  That something is a gholam. After all, the whole battle took place using the One Power, and a gholam would not be hurt by it.  This got me thinking that the cause of Shadow doesn't have a gholam under it's control, after all, good help isn't easy to come by these days.  But, apparently some offspring of Shadow does (or did? keep reading...) control a gholam.<br /><br />Throw in a few known facts:<br />1.Sammael found a stasis box of who know what inside.<br />2.A Gholam is lurking about in Ebou Dar.<br />3.Moridin said Sammael had interest in Ebou Dar, a cache of ter'angreal.<br /><br />So this made me think Sammael is controlling the Gholam.  Perhaps someone's death doesn't remove his will from the creature until it has a new master.  Maybe the death of Sammael is also the reason for the creatures roaming about Ebou Dar, seemingly without much purpose except bumping into Mat from time to time?</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Good theory overall. The part about Sammael's intrest in Ebou Dar is a bit of a stretch because gholam hate anything to do with the One Power. I think Sammael sent the gholam to do a certain thing, then died, so he couldn't give the gholam more orders. Therefore, the gholam stayed in Ebou Dar and started accosting Mat because of standing orders to get rid of the three Ta'veren. I seem to remember orders like that somewhere... <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-20 15:12:23
subject: The White Tower Conflict
body:
<p>I have given a lot of thought to how the struggle for the White Tower will resolve itself and thought that other Wotmaniacs might be interested in what I think.  In a nutshell I believe that it will be a relatively bloodless conflict with Egwene  as the victor (like Rand&#8217;s conquest of Illian).  The key to Egwene&#8217;s victory will be the purge of the Black Ajah  from the Tower which will change the dynamics of internal Tower politics in her favor.  <br /><br />First consider how the purge will take place.  I think that the most likely plan of action for the Sitters conducting the purge will look something like the following because it seems to make the most sense.  First, the Sitters need people to help them hunt down the Black Ajah.  The 10 Rebels in the Tower fit the bill, and the Sitters seem to have little remorse in using them for the task, so I think they will be the first ones tested and then they will start the hunt.  Next the Sitters should start from the top down in the Tower because once they have control of the leadership the purge can be more easily managed and kept secret.  However, Elaida  and Alviarin  will be left alone because as Amyrlin and Keeper the Sitters cannot simply make them disappear if they turn out to be Black Ajah.  That would tip off the Black Ajah and, in addition, Elaida or Alviarin would take over the purge and the Sitters seem determined to do this on their own.  All of the Sitters will be questioned, and probably the Ajah heads, after that it will turn into a routine process of cornering every Sister one by one and questioning her.  <br /><br />Once the leadership is established the purge will have to move quickly to avoid detection.  This is because the Black Sisters that get captured will be out of circulation and sooner or later they will be missed.  I think that the Sitters are also smart enough to know that detection would mean: (i) open warfare in the tower (where no one knows who is who); (ii) escape for a large part of the Black Ajah; (iii) or both.  I would estimate that they have from 24 to 48 hours to finish the job once the leaders are purged.  Since there are only 250-300 Sisters in the Tower that is not an impractical time frame, and once the process passes the halfway point it will take less and less time to complete because there will be more and more hunters.<br /><br />The Sisters who are confirmed Black Ajah, or ones who will not reswear the first oath, will be segregated and guarded until the purge is over.  While the purge is taking place some Sisters will have the job of putting the confirmed Darkfriends and suspects to the question.  I believe that the focus of the questioning will be Black Ajah names and plots.  In any event, I believe that the Sitters will learn the following things from the Black Ajah about Elaida: (i) she was raised to the Amyrlin Seat as part of a Black Ajah plot responsible for breaking the Tower; (ii) she kidnapped Rand, had him tortured, the whole mission was crushed by a few hundred Asha&#8217;man, thirty Sisters ended up prisoners, and Elaida covered it up; (iii) she sent 51 Sisters and 500 Tower Guards to their doom at the Black Tower because she underestimated the Asha&#8217;man, and covered that up too; (iv) she issued the decrees that turned the Tower into an &quot;armed camp,&quot; and alienated the rulers who deal with Rand, all at the direction of the Black Ajah.  Please note that Elaida believes that (iii) and (iv) are mistakes big enough for the Sitters to depose and still her and that is why she is letting Alviarin slap the snot out of her and tell her exactly what to do.  If Elaida believes these mistakes will get her deposed I think we should also. <br /><br />On a side note, I think that Mesaana will get snapped up somewhere in the process.  She will swear the first oath, because she will be in a situation where she will have no choice, and be asked something like &#8216;are you of the Black Ajah,&#8217; since she is not she will be able to truthfully answer no.  She will then be released to help hunt, but instead she will sound the alarm for the Black Ajah and have Alviarin use her ability to travel to get the rest of the Black Ajah out of the Tower.  It just stands to reason that the bad guys need their Dreadlords.<br /><br />Once the Sitters get the information I mention above and realize how badly Elaida has bungled things I think they will be about half way through the purge.  Egwene and the Rebels with their army will suddenly appear on the scene.  At this point I believe that the Sitters and Ajah Heads (the 'Tower Leadership') will be completely in charge of the tower, and no one will be doing anything that Elaida or Alviarin say because they think the two may be Black Ajah.  This is where we come to the real &quot;CRUNCH TIME&quot; for the Tower Leadership.  Armed with what they will know about Elaida, and the fact that there is an army of 50,000+ troops led by Gareth Bryne and 300 + Sisters outside the walls, what will they decide to do?  Let&#8217;s consider the options: (i) Fight; (ii) Surrender; or (iii) Negotiate.   <br /><br />I think that negotiation is the only real option and here&#8217;s why.  If they decided to fight they would probably believe that it would be long and bloody (unless they realize that the Rebels can Travel).  That will not be acceptable to them because they know the Tower needs to be whole to fight the Last Battle (which could be tomorrow), and deal with the Black Tower.  Surrender is not an option because the Tower Leadership will know that the Black Ajah is alive and well among the Rebels.  In addition, they will know there will be no way to purge the Black Sisters with the rebels if they give up because they will no longer be in power.  <br /><br />Assuming I am correct, when they do negotiate they really only have one option, depose Elaida and accept Egwene as Amyrlin Seat.  That creates a Win-Win situation for both sides.  The Tower Sisters get what they need and the Rebels get what they want.  As additional support for this conclusion you should consider the Pros and Cons of keeping Elaida as Amyrlin Seat.  I put together my own list that follows with an eye toward the major points.  I am sure that I missed quite a few points and would appreciate comments here.<br /><br />Pro: 1.  The Tower may be able to say to the world it was never really broken;<br />2.  Keeping Elaida will keep the current Tower Leadership in power;<br />3.  Egwene could be worse than Elaida;<br />4.  Egwene and/or her advisors could be Black Ajah;<br />5. ?<br /><br />Con: 1.  Elaida was a dupe of the Black Ajah and raised to the Amyrlin Seat as a part of a Black Ajah plot that broke the Tower;<br />2.  Elaida is an ego maniac;<br />3.  Elaida has made enemies of many of the Tower Leadership by being a dictator, giving out penances, and exiling Sitters to Ebou Dar;<br />4.  Elaida kidnapped Rand . . . we all know how that ended . . . then covered it up;<br />5.  Elaida got 51 Sisters and 500 Tower Guards crushed at the Black Tower . . . we all know how that ended too . . . covered it up, and failed to deal with the Black tower when she had the chance;<br />6.  Elaida would be more firmly entrenched as Amyrlin Seat if they keep her, and therefore even harder to deal with, because keeping her would in effect be a ratification of her past actions;<br />7.  Keeping Elaida will mean a bloody fight with the Rebels at a time when the Tower need to be whole more than anything, it would also mean the death of many Sisters/Warders/soldiers on both sides;<br />8.  The relationship with Rand basically cannot be repaired if Elaida stays, and that also means<br />the nations that he rules;<br />9.  Elaida&#8217;s past cover ups indicate that she will probably cover up future disasters and<br />therefore she cannot be trusted;<br />10.  The damage done to the Tower by the Black Ajah inspired decrees that El signed will be very hard to undo with Elaida in place, including the ones driving the Ajahs apart and alienating all the rulers of the nations;<br />11.  Elaida had the king of Illian (Mattin Stephanos) kidnapped (speculation but very probably true);<br />12.  Elaida is Red and the Red may have been raising up False Dragons;<br />13.  Elaida allowed Tar Valon to fall into disrepair (Leane saw this in TAR);<br />14.  Victory over the Rebels would mean the stilling of many Sisters and trials for treason and it just is not practical on the scale that they would have to do it;<br />15.  They would have to drive away most of the 100's of new novices that the Rebels have collected, at a time when the Tower needs new blood badly (this assumes that they know about the 450+ new novices the Rebels have);<br />16.  If they fight and lose they will PAY BIGTIME;<br />17.  The Tower Leadership will have to rely on High Captain Chubain (who is untested an maybe a Darkfriend) to win against Gareth Bryne (a Great Captain) and that is probably not a bet they will make;<br />18.  If they fight they will have to do something VERY NASTY to Egwene for being a rebel Amrylin.  They know that Egwene has a personal relationship with Rand and he will be really Hacked Off if anything bad happens to her, maybe even so mad as to send in the Aiel and Asha&#8217;man to get<br />some payback! Now that would be cool;<br />19.  Finally think on this, with Egwene and the Rebels ready to kick in the front door, this whole scene looks like when the last Red Amyrlin Seat, Bonwhin, almost led the Tower to disaster against Hawkwing.  That Amyrlin was deposed for less bungling than Elaida has caused and I am sure that the Tower Leadership is thinking on this, or will be.  The Ajah Heads have been whispering in corners for a reason and I think it involves the end for Elaida.  Also, I have never seen it mentioned before, but Elaida may actually be Bonwhin reborn;<br /><br />Imagine the scene where the Tower Leadership marches into Elaida&#8217;s study and says &quot;you're finished&quot; and then drags her out of the Tower by the hair kicking and screaming... Too cool.  <br /><br />I would like to add three additional side notes here which are off shoots of this analysis.  First, something that may help the Tower leadership make its decision to accept Egwene is military action by Gareth Bryne.  I have been and Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army for 10+ years and tried to imagine how I would take the tower if I were in Bryne&#8217;s place.  Simply put I would DIVIDE and CONQUER.  First, I would split my forces to cover every bridge and the ports (if I could get the ships).  Next, I would create teams of Aes Sedai and soldiers to capture strategic points in the city&#8217;s defenses using gateways.  I would start with strategic points along the outer wall, like bridge defenses and strong points, and quickly take the entire wall one piece at a time <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tinfoilhat.gif" border="0" /> hours max on this). In addition, I would target troop concentrations (like large barracks) when they are least prepared (3 or 4 AM), and armories because soldiers without weapons are obviously not very effective.  With Sisters to give orders the Tower Guards would be totally confused and probably take orders from the Rebels.  The Tower Guards could then be herded through gateways to camps set up for prisoners off of the island.  Basically, with the Tower Guards surprised, outflanked, and confused there will be a minimum of bloodshed.  Egwene is smart enough to realize that once the struggle for the tower is over she will need the Tower Guards to fight in the Last Battle, so minimizing the killing makes perfect sense and, in addition, this fight is really between the Sisters. Once the outer wall is secure Bryne can move his entire force into the city and take control of everything except the Tower and it&#8217;s outer wall.  Then the Tower and its grounds becomes a prison for the Tower Aes Sedai.  I think that the negotiating would take place in earnest at this point because it would basically be a Mexican Standoff.  However, somewhere in here Elaida will spring a nasty surprise on Egwene that will put Egwene and Gawyn together and fulfill Egwene&#8217;s dream of Gawyn saving her or breaking her neck.<br /><br />As for the captured Black Sisters, including the ones with the Rebels, I do not think that they will be stilled because they can still be useful as weapons in the last battle.  I think that Egwene will make them swear about 100 new oaths and make them wear <i>adam</i> for the rest of their lives.  <br /><br />This last thought is way out there, but I think it is poetic justice.  Now that Rand has cleansed the taint on Saidin there will eventually be an alliance between the Black Tower and the White.  As a peace offering, and a way to keep an eye on the Asha&#8217;man, Egwene will give them Elaida&#8217;s &quot;palace&quot; as a new home.  After the Black Tower is &quot;rent in blood and fire&quot; (probably fighting their own Darkfriends) they will be in the market for some new real estate anyway.<br /><br />I hope that this will spark some debate and look forward to your comments.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is an exceptionally long theory, and I'm exhausted just from formatting it to get it posted!  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />  Seriously, it's a good, in-depth analysis of the entire White Tower Conflict.  Now I'll leave the comments and debate to the good people of wotmania...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-20 15:14:44
subject: The Stones
body:
<p>The Stones were invented in this Age. In TGH when they travel to another world, they arrive in a hollow with a step for each Ajah. This means that they must have been built while the White Tower had influence.<br /><br />But I could be wrong...  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/pharoah.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Makes sense! Something in there tickles my memory, but I can't quite figure out what.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/frown.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-20 21:13:23
subject: Oath Rod &amp; Tamyrlin?
body:
<p>I recently re-read the first few chapters of tEotW, and have come to a pretty simple and straightforward theory.<br />It occurs to me that when Elan Morin Tedronai (Ishmael/Be'alzemon/Moridin/whatever he was called eons before that if you believe other theories on this site) is tormenting a loony LTT about his lost greatness he is telling us things that, when we read the book the first time, we didn't even know we needed to know. &quot;Once you stood first among the Servants&quot;. Servants, of course, refers to &quot;Servants of All&quot;, aka Aes Sedai. &quot;Once you wore the Ring of Tamyrlin, and sat in the High Seat.&quot; Could this be the ring and seat that has come into Eladia's possesion? &quot;Once you summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion.&quot; I have read another theory that claimed, with sufficiant proof, that these are, in actuality, what the new-age Aes Sedai have dubbed &quot;Oath Rod&quot;. Perhaps there is a way that, when using all Nine Rods at one time it is possible to bind someone to an oath, even if the other person hadn't taken the oath (similar to Congress saying &quot;You will do this!&quot;, but the third party can't argue the point). We already know that thirteen black sisters with thirteen myrdraal can force someone to serve the Dark One. Perhaps the Nine Rods served a similar purpose...I have no proof to substantiate this, it is only a theory after all. But Sammael knew a lot about the rods when he gave one to the Shaido. I have looked but have failed to find the other copies of my books, so I am currently stranded with only EOTW, but I seem to remember him wishing that he had all nine rods. What was his purpose for wanting the rods?</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> As you said, it is only a theory, yet I think that if you find your other books, you will be able to find more proof than you think.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-20 22:44:28
subject: WoT is Earth - Compiled Theory
body:
<p>Yee-Gads!  I just realized that I never posted this theory on the theory post and I can't find one example of this theory on said post! (Sorry if I missed it!)<br /><br />This is to be a succinct list of all the evidence that proves that Earth is WoT in a non-channeling age, specifically the first age.  If you can think of more put it on the blackboard.<br /><br />Book Proof:<br /><br />Somewhere - it's been stated (a few times by wolves and I -think- by the Green Man) that there was a time before humans had discovered the One Power.<br />EOTW index - look at trolloc tribe names.  What could a gobh'lin be?  All of them are fantasy creatures when said out loud.<br />EOTW - Satellite Dish - A hollowed out bowl with a tall spire sticking out.<br />EOTW - Wagon Driver - &quot;Caemlyn, the greatest city on Earth&quot;.<br />TGH - Mat, when blowing the horn, sees names change, Mikel becomes Michael, Elzbet becomes Elizabeth, etc.<br />Wherever Moggy and Nynaeve have their first fight (the one with the balefire rod entering the scene) - Moghedien talks about the sun being a star, the stars being humongous burning balls of fire far away, and space travel in the Second Age.<br />Thom's tales about the first age, or &quot;Age of Myths&quot;: 'Mosk and Merc fighting across the world with their lances of fire' seems to be the cold war with MOSCow and aMERiCa.  'Len flying the eagle to the moon' seems to be the lunar landing (len = LEM, Lunar Exploration Module).  'Elzbet ruling the world' would be referring to Queen Elizabeth.  There are other references but I'm not looking them up right now.  Suffice it to say, they all have a similar explanation.  This is my favourite proof because it is obviously not a mistake by RJ and can't be explained away by saying that Wotworld was once in a state SIMILAR to Earth.<br />When Rand comes out of the Waste - He sees what appears to be an airport.<br />Anytime Moridin/Ishamael opens his mouth - There is always some reference to things today.<br />Throughout - Age of Legends technology appears to be our technology, plus a bit.  For instance, whenever Rand goes into Rhuidean for the first time, Rand has visions of Jo-Cars, something-planes, and concrete and all this other fun now-age technology.  If you have the guide, you can confirm that genetic engineering existed in the AOL.<br /><br />There is so much more information to support this but my mind is blanking.<br /><br />Interview proof:<br /><br />From Sorilea's interview (sorry for using your words for an anti-you theory, Sorilea!)<br /><br />&quot;Jordan explained that that is what a lot of the WoT is about, the source of legends, and how some legends are based in such a small bit of real history that no one really knows where they came from - if they are real or just made up.&quot;<br /><br />We have seen many examples of legends of theirs sounding like our history (above Thom speech, tales of flying, running with wolves).  Also, similarities to our legends have been noted many times.  To name a few:<br /><br />Mat seems to equal Odin, hanging from the world tree (Yggdrasil vs. Avendesora) to gain wisdom, losing an eye - theorized, inventing (runes vs. gunpowder weaponry - theorized).<br />Artur Hawkwing seems to be Arthur son of Uther Pendragon (also noted was al'Thor the Dragon sounding phonetically like Uther Pendragon - and after all, he did pull the sword from the stone).<br />The Dragon and this <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> symbol.<br />RJ stating somewhere that he really -did- mean to have mythological influences.<br />Rand seems to be Jesus' counterpart (sorry religious people, but fiction - I'm referring to WoT - can do that!)<br />etc. etc. etc.<br /><br />To paraphrase another at this site (Ptolomaeus), in the scope of human history the same time between the 1st and 3rd ages in Wot has seen the names of Kings become the names of Gods and Demons.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> First off, I'm sure that &quot;Len&quot; is <i>also</i>, at least, referring to John G<i>len</i>n, who took the first step from the Eagle to the moon.<br /><br />I agree completely that Robert Jordan has played around with the idea of the Wheel of Time and Earth being one and the same.  However, the evidence--did you forget the supposed Mercedes Benz symbol?--is all far too playful for me to credit the idea as having any significance on the structure of the story.  Still, the implications of the theory should be fun to think about on a lazy day.<br /><br />Note:  I have been corrected.  Neil Armstrong took the first step on the moon, not John Glenn.  Still, I stand by the theory that &quot;Len&quot; more plausibly refers to John Glenn than to &quot;LEM.&quot;<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-22 10:59:55
subject: Mat and His Eye
body:
<p>I'll keep this simple for my first theory post....  We all know that Mat is going to marry this Daughter of the Nine Moons figure.  We all know that this is the daughter of the Seanchan Empress now.  We all have heard about Mat plucking his eye out and placing it in a scale, giving up half the light of the world to save the world.  At this point it seems is where everyone rushes off to their own little ideas and dissension erupts.<br /><br />Now let us consider several small things....  The first is the comment the Seanchan makes when Aviendha and Rand managed to wind up in their heavily snowed upon continent, about how the lady in the party with the sul'dam and damane is not above the Empress' own children, and how the man was allowed to gaze upon the Empress herself.  That seems to be a very high honor in Seanchan.<br /><br />Secondly, how many of us think that the Empress would forbid her children from looking at her? Or that the Empress would skip her Daughter's wedding at the very least?<br /><br />Thirdly, in the Empress' eyes, or possibly in every Seanchan's eyes, Mat has <i>not</i> done anywhere near enough to warrant the honor of being allowed to see the empress, so in all likelihood they would at the very least demand he cover one of his eyes with an eyepatch, and have the Empress stand on that side of him at all times, well actually have him stand on the appropriate side of the Empress, so that he does not accidentally receive an honor beyond him.<br /><br />The alternative to the eyepatch if the Seanchan really are <i>that</i> strict, is of course having the eye removed so that all chance (such as the eyepatch's strap breaking or some other freakish act of ta'veren) of him seeing the empress is removed.  Personally I'd hope that they'd just let him get by with an eyepatch. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> For all the Mat-meets-the-Empress theoies I've seen, this theory presents one of the most easily achieved ways for Mat to lose an eye.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-22 14:09:57
subject: Exploring the Chronological Soul Trinity
body:
<p>Here I will attempt to re-evaluate the Olver/Gaidal Cain theory by looking at new angles offered by Joar Addam, and touch upon The Death and Resurrection of Rand theory by Saidin7, The How Rand Will Live After Tarmon Gai'don theory by Da'Doviende, and momentarily revisit a theory that I've already Responded to by Buck Gaidin. Meanwhile I will also try to establish my own theory structure.<br /><br />Strap in for a warped and wild ride folks this might get confusing. In fact you can count on that.<br />And away we go....<br /><br />When a person is bound to the horn as Rand Gaidal and Birgitte are there are three portions of their souls. I include Rand because as the Dragon he is a required part of the horn being used and could presumably be called back from the dead if the horn were used after his passing (more on that later).<br /><br />The first part is the Elder Soul, that is the part that remembers it's past live(s). In the case of Rand it seems that the Elder Soul (Lews Therin) is only a single incarnation and the most recent one at that. Next is Center Soul that is the part that is aware of the now. That would of course be Rand al'Thor. The third portion would be the Over Soul that is currently being referred to by as the Third Destroyer because of an extrapolation on a comment made by Lews Therin. When he said that he and Rand are destroyers as well as the other one Rand was perplexed. He had been starting to see a third face forming and it seemed the two were connected. <br /><br />The Over Soul in this scenario is the Dragon. That is the pure essence of the dragon the recalls clearly all of it's battles. Rand may be starting to see that part of him because he is getting closer to his battle. Thus he is closing in on his moment to tap into the Over Soul.<br /><br />Now if we apply this to Birgitte Silverbow then it flows thus, there would normally be her current life (if she isn't awaiting rebirth), her memory of her past life, and the part of her that is eternal. At Falme the Birgitte that showed up was the Over Soul of her. When she was ripped out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> her body took on a new form. The appearance matches that of the Over Soul because that was how she was taken out, in her purest form. If your unsure of whether or not she looks EXACTLY THE SAME then think about the fact that Mat recognized her once he had time to clear his head.<br /><br />This may be subconsciously why Birgitte is in fear of not being horn bound any longer. She wasn't reborn properly. By the way yes a her is reborn by the standard mommy and daddy method. She made a comment at one point that every other time she was spun out by the wheel normally instead of ripped out like she was this time around. When she made references to Gaidal being spun out she said that he has been born some where. So that particular phrase implies that she means child birth.<br /><br />Now her Over Soul is in the world and adapting to it. It seems to be fashioning her into a Center Soul. This would account for why she is losing her memories of prior lives. She is becoming a regular person and her Over Soul is fading into her subconscious. It may not be able to return to <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> at all while she is alive. There is also not an Elder to anchor the Over Soul and The Lady Trahelion (the last name that Birgitte was given when Elayne made her a noble) may only be a facsimile Center Soul. <br /><br />My Thought are that when Birgitte Trahelion dies she will go back to <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> as her Over Soul. Eventually she will find Cain if he isn't there already. The Over Soul will then wait to be respun into the world again. In essence she will have skipped a cycle.<br /><br />On the other hand that (reentering and exiting <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> ) may require the presence of an Elder Soul and a proper Center Soul. Without those she may be A) Stuck in Tar forever or B) Unable to re-enter at all.<br /><br />I don't really like the idea of Lady Trahelion meeting Gaidal (be he Olver or not) in her current life and having the perfect lovey dovey relation ship that she usually has. It seems to be a way to cheapen the turmoil she's gone through. With her being denied to her one true love at least in this life, that makes her sacrifice to save Nynaeve and Elayne very soulful and impacting. To just have her meet Cain and everything be okay would take that soulful heart wrenching sacrifice and throw it away.<br /><br />Besides what if Cain doesn't love her. She isn't the exact same combination that she has been previously, she wasn't born with the right face, age, and back ground so she may not be what Gaidal will need this time. He might even feel a bit of hostility for her. Cain's Over Soul might recall the warnings it gave its love and realize that it did not heed them and it caused her to break their chain. The Over Soul Cain may not even realize that it was accidental and believe that her Oversoul found a way to leave the Dreaming and abandoned their love. Because of this he might spurn her. That would be so much more dramatic and powerful then a &quot;well our love is eternal and can not be broken&quot; sort of ending for her.<br /><br />Now one thing that was tapped into by Joar Addams in the Olver/Cain theory that no one has jumped on is the idea of reverse time flow in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. That is the first thing I've heard that sounds plausible to explain the fact that Olver was alive and growing up when the Battle at Falme took place. With the amount of dreams that show future events that actually seems quite plausible.<br /><br />If this is the case then by the point of view of Gaidal Cain's Over  Soul the encounter with Perrin near the Tower of Ghenjei was before his being called into action at Falme which was before he was born. This means that while a portion of the overall soul of Gaidal Cain traveled backwards in the dreaming (uh <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> sorry bout that, been reading a lot of Sandman) another part was growing up and becoming the boy that would make Matrim Cauthon's life even more complex and infuriating.<br /><br />I have to say that Joar Addam has made me a lot more open to the Olver Cain concept. Very good work on your part Joar. One thing I'd like to add is an answer to Locksmith's statement on the black board to Joar's theory. His contention was that Olver doesn't have any reason to be in the books besides being a cute kid that adds nothing to the story or being a reborn Gaidal Cain.<br /><br />Well the boy has been playing the snakes and foxes game trying to figure out how to win. This has been pointed out to being a method foreshadowing a way to out smart or defeat the Finns. If Mat pays attention to that and then goes to the tower of the Ghenjei with Thom they might be able to get Moiraine out and bring her back as so many have been predicting.<br /><br />Sure it might kinda blow my theory 'Retort to Absolutely Paradoxical' (that was a response to Buck Gaidin's theory 'Absolutely Paradoxical') out of the water. In my theory I offered up a look at alternate methods for Moiraine to come back. One was as a presence in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> I think she qualifies as being a hero of the horn considering the number of Forsaken that she either helped to kill or defeated all by herself. Another would involve her coming back at Tarmon Gai'don when the horn blows. After further evaluation it seems that my ideas may not pan out.<br /><br />While I still don't agree with Buck Gaidin's ideas about Moiraine causing a paradox that could disrupt the entire flow of time (no I won't explain that here, go read his theory it's a neat one even if I think it's flawed), I do confess that there will most likely be a rescue that goes with the standard theories. That would mean Olver, Mat Cauthon, Thom Merrill and some others going into the tower of the Finn Folk and trying to save Moiraine. In fact that sets up the purpose that Olver has aside from being the cute little kid brought in to irritate the adults. So that would give Locksmith what he asked for when he mentioned that there didn't seem to be another reason for Olver to be in the book aside from being Gaidal Cain reborn.<br /><br />Another one would be that when Olver was missing from the palace during the end of book 7 Mat had to go looking for him. That lead to his leg breaking and causing him to be way laid in Ebou Dar long enough to meet Tuon. So Olver may have been brought in as a way to introduce Mat Cauthon to the Daughter of the Nine Moons.<br /><br />By the way a quick rebuttal to Vercingetorix and his statement on the black board for Joar's theory. The statement being, that one of the glossaries for one of the books mentions Gaidal Cain being as handsome as Birgitte is beautiful, that was a reference to legends about him. Birgitte made a point once that Gaidal was always ugly every time they ever met. It seems the gleemen of history told things differently though.<br /><br />No one likes an ugly hero (or so a lesser gleeman who tries to pander to his audience would tell you) So apparently the story tellers decided to smooth over a fact that they didn't like in the actual events that inspired their own petty little tales. They didn't want an ugly man to get the pretty girl so rather than make the girl ugly they made the man handsome (note: heroic men can't be called pretty, makes em sound like sissies in the eyes of the story tellers). This discrepancy would be an example of story tellers having the power to reshape perceptions at large. While a legit Gleeman would describe Cain as ugly as he ever was, the pithy fakers and second stringers told tales that they wanted to hear.<br /><br />When more of those tales started to get retold than the ones with the truth of GC's good looks (or rather the lack there of) people started to see that as the truth. Once the stories became part of the legend the legend be cam truth to people more so than the facts of the actual events. That is the power that even a poor and shoddy gleeman can have. Now imagine the power that the good ones have in their grasp.<br /><br />This now ends my Thom Merrilin-esque rant. Hope you didn't mind the diversion, now back to the soul stuff.<br /><br />I like the idea that the journey of an Over Soul need not be one directional or linear, it seems to support the fact that Lews Therin has knowledge of the Dragon Core (the designation for Rand's Over Soul). In fact ol' Lews T seems to know more of it than Randy Al' because he's already lived the moment when he tapped into the Dragon Core and became his Over Soul.<br /><br />I've often wondered if Lews Therin and Rand al'Thor have a two-way relationship. Rand is encountering Lews from the future (as Lews would see it) while Lews encounters Rand from the past (as Rand's views things). Perhaps in his final days Lews Therin was having conversation with Rand al'Thor a voice in his head that kept insisting that he was long dead and gone. When he died Lews ended up being inside of Rand's mind after awhile and perceived it as Rand becoming the dominant personality. To him Rand may still seem like a voice in his head that has taken over his body.<br /><br />This would be the plight of the sentient Elder Soul. In normal times they are supposed to be a subconscious part of the mind that isn't in contact with the Center Soul. When Rand Saw through the eyes of his ancestors he witnessed the age of legends in its prime. That may have triggered the Elder Soul of Lews Therin. He awoke and tried to adapt to his situation as well as he could.<br /><br />This may in fact be the first time an Elder Soul has come into conflict with the Center Soul. This could be why they are both starting to see the Over Soul manifest. It has to come into the middle and reconcile the other two before their struggle for dominance distorts things or tear them apart. That may in fact be a part of the cycle, the Elder Soul and Center Soul get aware of each other and decide to try and over power the other. Then the Over Soul merges with its counter parts and taps into past present and future. That could be how the Dragon faces the Dark One, with knowledge of its entire cycle.<br /><br />If Rand falls dead at Tarmon Gai'don then someone could use the horn to summon him back. It won't be Rand that returns though, but the Dragon Core who faces the Dark One in purest form. If Shai'tan has to face something as eternal as himself then he's screwed. He may have a chance against Rand al'Thor, but not against The Dragon Core.<br /><br />This would mean that Rand would have to die in order to defeat the Dark One. That would then either A) Result in him being restored to his regular self or B) End with the Dragon Core returning to <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> and Rand staying deader than disco. The Dragon of course live on, it is eternal and it will be born again in an age to come, or an age past dependent on whose perspective we're talking about.<br /><br />Thus Rand has to die in order to live. When the Aelfinn told him that they said 'you must die to live'. They didn't specify who was meant by the term you, they may have meant the Dragon not Rand specifically. Besides even if they did mean Rand they were right. He will live after Tarmon Gai'don, as the next Elder Soul to the next Center Soul when the Dragon is Reborn. That would kick so much ass over the simple old 'Rand gets revived by Nynaeve cause she's the best healer of all' line.<br /><br />This also seems to work as an analogy to the holy trinity. Instead of father, son, and holy ghost we have , Future, Present and Pastlife. Everyone talks about Rand being a parallel to that carpenter dude from Nazareth, so it seems like there should be a trinity and even if I'm wrong, there is Lews Therin, Rand, and Third Destroyer.<br /><br />I will admit that Da'Doviende has a plausible idea with her theory on Rand being able to get Reborn out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, but there is one flaw. If they try to contact Rand in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> it won't be him. It will be the Over Soul, the Dragon Core as it were. He would perhaps explain some of the things I've set forth (should they prove to be true) and tell them that Rand Al' Thor is dead and they must move on without him.<br /><br />The Dragon can not afford to have a similar problem like Birgitte Trahelion. It is needed for the next age, skipping one cycle could cost the entire Wheel of Time. If he isn't born when and where he has to be the next dragon may not be able to defeat the Dark One. So the part Rand that is eternal has to say a good bye to his three wives and go into death in order to protect the world again someday. That would be a fitting way for the hero to go. Denial of ones own dreams and life is a big part of the hero formula after all.<br /><br />Now if Nynaeve tried to resurrect Rand with say Damer Flinn (I belive he was the one who figured out the cure for stilling, if not maybe Hopwil or Narishma) linked and using the access key to the male Choedan Kal then it may or may not be enough to get the deed done. They may need to have keys to both and the one for women was melted into slag.<br /><br />However Nynaeve might have subconscious memories of how the key worked. If she went to <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> with Elayne then they could figure out how to make one in the waking world. There might just be another one out there as well. With two keys one for each statue sized Sa'Angreal may not be enough. Raising the dead just might not be possible.<br /><br />I commend Saidin7 for his research into certain portions of the books that make reference to the concept of raising the dead (especially that really touching scene where Rand had to let that little girl go). I think you do have a valid structure there. In fact it may be hinted at the someone will have to deal with the failure of an attempted resurrection. Nynaeve finding out that are certain things even she can't heal would be a powerful moment to witness.<br /><br />By the way put me down in the if-Rand-dies-keep-him-dead-for-bloody-good column. Of course The Aelfinn/snakes may have told Rand the truth, just not the truth he thought. Like I said it may be something that can't be allowed because it would change too much. The Aelfinn and Eelfinn are masters of giving people enough information to get to the wrong conclusion, with out lying a hair. These people could confuse Aes Sedai with out missing a beat or straining their brains.<br /><br />It seems that Saidin7 was close to the right track if not on it. I salute you for that.<br /><br />So I will say in closing that all of the people whom I have addressed and drawn portions of ideas from are excellent theorist and I have had fun reading your work. Hope you had fun reading mine.<br /><br />I have stayed up for an entire night writing this out. So I am very tired now. Goodnight people I need to go take a nap.<br />So Until next time, be good to yourselves and each other...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This theory is much too long for me to comment on the entire thing - I'm not that ambitious...  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />  But I would comment that it would be interesting to know what exactly the Finn had to say to Rand, and I certainly hope that Olver does in fact turn out to be Cain.  I think Min's viewing of Birgitte in <i>Winter's Heart</i> makes this almost a certainty, but you never know...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-22 22:39:06
subject: Death Shall Reap, and Bodies Fail...
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<p>In The Eye of the World, Ba'alzamon used rats as his eyes and ears as well as to threaten Rand, Mat and Perrin (TEotW - Stag and Lion). Moiraine Sedai kept them away from the street around The Queen's Blessing inn (TEotW- Old Friends and New Threats), and Elaida Sedai from the Palace grounds (TEotW &#8211;  The Web Tightens). In the Winter's Heart rats are back:<br /><br />1) in the lowest hallways of the White Tower, Seaine Sedai picked up the far-off chitterling of rats (WH &#8211;Prologue, page 15),<br />2) in Caemlyn, First Maid Reene Harfor told Lady Elayne, with a grace and dignity any ruler might envy, about rats infesting the storerooms of the Palace (WH &#8211; Prologue, 40),<br />3) also in Caemlyn rats are breeding in the sewers as in spring (WH &#8211; Expectation, 505),<br />4) and last but not least, somewhere close to Shayol Ghul, Moridin came to the wine-party with a rat riding his shoulder  (WH- Wonderful News, 316).<br /><br />IMHO they are RJ's suggestions to the perceptive readers of WoT that Ishamael (Ba'alzamon) reincarnated as Moridin is repeatedly playing with rats, this time in the whole Randland. What for?<br /><br />Do you remember what an educated Darkfriend or perhaps a Myrddraal wrote on the wall in the dungeon of Fal Dara? Script had the form of poetry, or song, and the sound of prophecy: <br /><br />&quot; Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great lord comes, DEATH SHALL REAP, AND BODIES FAIL, before Great Lord comes, gain the seed [Seanchan] slays ancient wrong, before Great Lord comes, Now the Great Lord comes&quot; (TGH &#8211; Blood Calls Blood ).<br /><br />It means that after long, hot weather and before big battle between the Ever Victorious Army and the armies of Randland, a great plague will come. Rats will spread pest over the Randland. My guess is the outbreak of the plague will happen at the end of the next book. Nasty, isn't it?<br /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Thank you very much for this theory; it is observant and insightful, and it gave me chills.  Such a plot would be yet another proof of RJ's forethought and attention to detail.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-23 21:40:45
subject: Mat and the Light of the World
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<p>It has always been my theory that Mat would fufill the prophecy about sacrificing half of the light of the world by destroying either Saidin or Saidar because there are many times that the One Power is refered to as things like the light of the world. My guess is that he will have to destroy the male half to stop an insane Rand, and I think this is possible because of the medallion that he has.  If he finds some way to bring the medallion in contact with a focal point or something of the male half it would obliterate it just like it does any amount that is channeled into him.  Now the exact details of how this would happen I don't have much of an idea on, but I really have always thought that this is what the prophecy meant.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Nice theory there. It is entirely possible that he will have to do that. But remember that Rand has cleansed Saidin now. You should also read the other theories about how Mat will fill that prophecy. They might give you an insight.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-23 22:04:41
subject: True Power Not the Taint
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<p>There are some theories on here about the True Power being the taint.  I don't think this makes sense, and here's why:<br /><br />When Mierin was drilling into the Dark One's prison, she was trying to access a new way to touch the power - one that men and women could both access the same.  I think that this was the True Power.  As we see when Graendal and Sammael are hanging out with the Shaido, both can access the True Power and it is even more intoxicating than the One Power.  So, I think that the True Power comes direct from the Dark One, who controls who can access it (Forsaken, Morindin).  <br /><br />But why, you ask, can't the True Power be the taint?  Well, as we see from the Asmodean/Rand battle where Rand cuts the black cords, the cords are there to protect the male forsaken from the taint.  If the Taint were the true power, they wouldn't need protection from it.  Also, the taint is described as filth and slime, two words not used for the True Power.<br /><br />Just a thought.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-24 12:32:26
subject: The Fate of Elaida
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<p>I've never posted before, but have patience for a novice. When analyzing great, famous (and infamous) leaders of the past, it is important to take into account their psychology, and the effect of the cult of leadership (which the tower most certainly was/is). The Amyrlin Seat was arguably the most powerful position to hold in Rand Land. That being so, take into account its effect on the individual. When holding a great office, the holdee often finds themself shaped by the office. True, the holdee may characterize the office, but they are changed, effected if you will, by the office itself.<br /><br />Elaida has been shown by Jordan to commit numerous &quot;suspect&quot; acts to say the least. This includes the kidnapping fiasco, etc. etc. However, Jordan has made it abundently clear that Elaida is not evil (darkfriend/black ajah). He has never bashed anyone as much as Elaida, without having either them A)turn out to be a darkfriend, which she is not or B) commit some redeeming act. Jordan is big on redemption. Rand talks about it all the time, LTT moans about it, and a certain Shienarian soldier (who was a darkfriend) found it, by defending Rand and Co. in a narrow pass (remember that?)<br /><br />All of this rambling has come to one point...Elaida's redemption. She is a proud, aggressive person, shaped by the office she holds. While she hasn't been a great Amyrlin, she still has her pride, and the pride of the office locked in her. So Elaida's redemption will come when she finally snaps (out of pride, and fury) over Alviarin's abuse (you can only kick a dog so long before they bite back). I believe that she will make the connection that Alviarin is a darkfriend, and in an epic struggle, destroy her. She might die from the battle, or she might realize how things really are in the world and handover the tower to the rebels. Thus the tower will be broken and remade, quickly, bloodlessly, and efficiently (which is the tower way). When the tower is in the hands of the rebels, it will be united to Rand, and the saga may continue forward; sparing precious pages to tie up the rest of the loose threads.<br /> <br />That is my humble opinion. The downfall of Alviarin, the break and remake of the tower, the rise of a new Amyrlyn, and the subsequent unification of all Aes Sedi to Rand...all at the hands and actions of Elaida. And to think she was once a Red, go figure? Seriously, Jordan had greatness in mind for her (and not just gaining the Seat), and her story is not over. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Knowing the potential extent of Elaida's fury, are you so sure that an encounter with Alviarin would be bloodless?  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Of course, I should also mention that on the other side, we can't be certain that Mesaana would not take a hand in any encounter between Elaida and Alviarin.  Where does she fit into your picture?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-24 22:41:03
subject: The Last Day of the Last Battle
body:
<p>This might have been said, and it might be trivial but I am gong to say whats on my mind because I am bored.<br /><br />With everyone speculating over the Last Battle, I decided to read the books over and see if I could catch any of the numerous, if I may say, &quot;well hidden clues left by 'El Roberto'.&quot;  If you recall, from tGH on pages 303 to 305, Rand first encounters the huge sa'angreal and when trying to fend away saidin, the power poured into him ,and this is where I speculate.  I quote,<br /><br />&quot;Power filled him. <br />He was one with the sphere... <br />into the shadow with teeth bared... <br />to spit in sightblinder's eye... <br />Power to break the world.&quot;<br /><br />And then he shouts &quot;ON THE LAST DAY&quot;. Then the source left him.<br /><br />I think, that on the last day of the last battle, that sa'angreal will be used by the Dragon. For what I can't say, only that they will be used.  If any one wants to add more to this or already has, I would like to hear it for I know this is pretty shallow.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Interesting theory there. I think it has merit. You should try to find more clues in the books, and post them to support your thoery.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-25 11:32:49
subject: Logain and Rand
body:
<p>I'm volunteering to be Captain Obvious today.  People are seriously misconstruing the prediction of Logain stepping onto the black block of the Asha'man over Rand's crumbing body.  Body Switch? Come on.  As far as I can tell most people believe Rand will fake his death sometime soon anyway, and live as a recluse/beggar.  I think all this prediction means is that in Rand's absence from the public eye, Logain will step up to lead the Asha'man.  I didn't think I saw this theory anywhere, I thought most people had figured it out though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-25 11:57:22
subject: The Taint: Gone for Good?
body:
<p>OK, everybody should all be agreed by now that there is no longer a taint on saidin.  Rand cleaned up every last bit of it.  They can feel it.  However, since we still don't know the mechanism by which the taint was placed in the first place, we have a problem: could the taint come back?  I'm not sure myself, but I have lots of juicy points for discussion:<br /><br />1:  The Taint acted faster in the beginning.  &quot;Lews Therin and the sixty-eight survivors of the Hundred went insane on the instant, perhaps not even knowing that their attempt to seal the Bore had been successful.&quot; - The Guide.  Ok, this quote doesn't really tell us if *all* guys went insane then, and in fact we know, by other talk about how some sheltered in Ogier groves, that many didn't.  However, the fact that the people closest to the bore got hit so hard, and so quickly, leads me to speculate that the Taint got released all at once, and hit the Companions first, hardest, before it could spread out over everything.  This would mean that there was a finite amount of the taint out there, and that no new taint is being created, so when Rand cleared saidin up, that was all there was, we're finished unless we make another mistake sealing the bore.<br /><br />2:  The Taint was caused by the fact that there weren't any women with LTT when he sealed the bore.  I don't have any proof, but the detail RJ goes into in explaining why there weren't any women there must meant that it is significant.  Maybe when Rand seals it, he'll have some girls with him to help, and the saidin will protect the saidar, and the saidar will protect the saidin, and everything will be happy.  Or maybe, as Fel observed, it will somehow be sealed as if it had never been bored.  Anyways, if the whole taint is an effect of saidin being in contact with the Bore, then it would return.<br /><br />In my opinion, the first theory is true, but there doesn't seem to have been enough discusion of this, so there we are.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Well, we know that the Taint has to disappear &quot;completely&quot; <i>sometime</i> because it wasn't around during the Age of Legends.  Maybe the Taint will make another appearance before the end of the series, most likely during the climax of the Last Battle; but I suspect that it would be defeated again before the story ends.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-25 23:25:20
subject: Verin the Darkfriend Rumors Gone for Good
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<p><b>Verin isn&#8217;t a Darkfriend</b><br /><br />In this theory I really want to put beyond doubt that Verin is not a Darkfriend. I have taken bits from across the whole series so expect it to jump from book to book. This is just the first part in a few theories I have on Verin, but it is essential that I make this clear first of all to build on the fact she isn&#8217;t a Darkfriend.<br /><br /><b>Darkfriend orders and the three Ta&#8217;veren</b><br />If we look first of all at the orders given in the prologue to book 2 we can get a clear picture at what we can expect from Darkfriend behavior. Their orders were:<br /><br />1.Know who the three Ta&#8217;veren were <br />2.Pass on the orders to all followers. The images of these three were indelibly imprinted into the memories of those at the meeting. Remember Carridin can see their exact likeness when he closes his eyes. It would be very easy to draw a picture and or write a description and send it by pigeon.<br />3.Kill or capture Rand. Although Ishy made quite clear that the former might not be a good idea.<br />4.Mat and Perrin could be killed.<br /><br />I suppose you may say that Verin was being controlled by another Forsaken. Not so, Ishamael personally controlled the Black Ajah as Alviarin&#8217;s PoV in the CoS prologue shows. Liandrin knows her orders so it can be taken that if Verin were Black she would definitely her own orders by then. OK, well lets see if Verin&#8217;s actions match these orders&#8230;<br /><br /><b>Verin and Mat</b><br />Verin firstly Heals Mat at Fal Dara and then ends up traveling to Falme with him. Then when he falls sick she keeps him alive and all the way to Tar Valon where she is involved in Healing him permanently. Now, taking into consideration the orders given to Darkfriends, she really seems to be doing the opposite of what you would expect from a Black Ajah member. And further taking into consideration that she knows Compulsion, has an angreal and is effectively the only one in the group that can tell if anything sinister had happened involving the One Power, it seems that either she is not Black, or she missed the opportunity of a lifetime in obtaining one of the Black Ajah&#8217;s main goals.<br /><br /><b>Verin and Perrin</b><br />Again from the start Verin has acted strangely for a Darkfriend. She already knows about the Wolfbrother thing and could have claimed he was a Darkfriend as Liandrin threatened to do with Agelmar&#8217;s wife. Another option would have been to take him to the Tower for study, an effective form of capture. But what did she choose to do? She just let him go on his way. Then again in book 4 she helps him considerably in the fight for the Two Rivers. Here are some examples:<br /><br />1.Gives advice on how to kill Shadowspawn (Assurances)<br />2.Hints that the Trollocs are trying to stir up war (Questions to be asked)<br />3.Shows suspicion about Luc instead of corroborating his story (A new weave in the Pattern)<br />4.Warns him about Alanna and &#8216;designs&#8217; in the White Tower (A new weave in the Pattern)<br />5.She helps in the rescue of the Whitecloak prisoners (A new weave in the Pattern)<br />6.Tells Perrin he must be Healed (A missing leaf)<br />7.Heals casualties and creates flaming stones to kill Trollocs (Price of departure)<br /><br />Now for someone who would want to destroy the Two Rivers and leave Perrin for dead these are pretty strange actions. If it were not for her the Two Rivers would likely have fallen. The conclusion, she is not Black.<br /><br /><b>Verin and Rand</b><br />Her behavior with Rand further proves she is not Black. Again exposing him at the very start was an option. That would have achieved two goals of the Black Ajah already, to have Rand under control and the Amyrlin replaced with one more to their liking. And from the conversation just after she discovers the truth about the Dragon Reborn, she must have convince Siuan and Moiraine that she was not Black too since they were especially aware that the Black Ajah were after Rand. (See New Spring) If they had any suspicions about Verin they would have taken steps to stop her. <br /><br />Strangely, she is the only one that sees swearing to Rand an option from the moment of her capture and she constantly gives concessions to him that would be unacceptable to most sisters. Would a Black sister have given in so quickly to swearing an oath that could mean certain death for betraying the Dark One? Verin also seems to be very protective of Rand, she tries to protect him from gentling, she tries to protect him from Cadsuane, she gets very worried when Katerine Alruddin escapes and she is almost Alanna&#8217;s guardian and is terrified when she collapses unconscious. She must let Rand live. If we compare this to actions of other Darkfriends it does not fit. Carridin was ordered to kill him, so was Shiaine and Fain, and Moridin ordered the Forsaken to do the same. Elza is an exception that I will talk about later.<br /><br /><b>Comparing Verin to other Darkfriends</b><br /><br />We have already looked at Verin&#8217;s actions compared to orders given by Ishamael but what about how she reacts to individual Darkfriends and comparing them and their reactions to her. <br /><br />1.<b>Ingtar</b>- There are plenty of times where Ingtar tries to hide his true allegiances. He delays when he shouldn&#8217;t and doesn&#8217;t really seem to do everything he can to led them out of danger. However Verin is very quick to pick up on this and doesn&#8217;t really trust him. In the chapter &#8216;Five ride forth&#8217; she even draws a wheel with 5 spokes and then strokes one out. She can see that Ingtar is undergoing an internal struggle and predicts he won&#8217;t come back. If she were a Darkfriend she would be helping him every step of the way and backing up his decisions. Even being a single Aes Sedai within the group she does have some influence, which she uses against him.<br /><br />2.<b>Luc</b>- This is more concrete evidence. She knows about the Dark Prophesy surrounding Luc at Fal Dara but yet doesn&#8217;t expose him for who he is. But why should she do this? She has nothing to suggest that Luc is a Darkfriend from the Prophesy. And she does warn them about him in a way, she almost takes every opportunity to voice her suspicions about him. The very first time she meets him she doubts his story (&#8216;House Chiendelna, where is that?&#8217;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />. He obviously doesn&#8217;t like her either. She also mentions later on that Luc &#8216;does have a way of causing trouble when he is here&#8217;. She criticizes his provoking the Whitecloaks and is not surprised when he does not turn up for the final conflict. Again rather than corroborate his story she would rather try to expose him and stop his plans to make the Two Rivers fall. It seems to me that if they were on the same side then this would not happen.<br /><br />3.<b>Katerine Alruddin</b>- When she escapes she starts to forget herself with the Wise Ones and blurts out &#8216;Why did you let her escape! A red of her strength is no trifle&#8230;the Car&#8217;a&#8217;carn is in danger!&#8217; This is unlike Verin; she is clearly distressed over Rand&#8217;s well being. Also, privately she thinks that this just confirms her suspicions about Katerine. What does this mean? That Katerine is Black of course! Why would she fear that one of her fellow Black sisters might try to kill Rand? The only explanation would be that she is not a Darkfriend and therefore is afraid that Rand may be in danger.<br /><br />4.<b>Elza</b>- OK, this theorizing is all very well, but what about Elza? She is Black and she wants Rand to live, is not half as dodgy as Verin and is even prepared to kill other Darkfriends to save Rand. Why can Verin not be Black too? Well there are a lot of subtle differences. Firstly, Elza was &#8216;questioned&#8217; by Verin and therefore Verin probably knows she is Black and has changed her views via Compulsion. Elza wants the Dark One to win and somehow Verin has implanted it into her thoughts that Rand must live for the Last Battle for this to happen. Possibly it has something to do with ensuring Prophesies come true. But compare the thoughts of the two women. Where Verin simply accept that Rand is very important in a logical manner, Elza is fervent. She says it almost in a vengeful way, as if every word is being dragged out of her and she despises him. Here is the quote: <blockquote>&#8220;The most surprising answer came from Elza, in her manner of delivery more than the words. Sinking to her knees she gazed up at Rand with feverish eyes. Her whole face seemed to shine with fervor. Auras flared and images cascaded around her, telling nothing. &#8216;You are the Dragon Reborn,&#8217; she said breathlessly. &#8216;You must be there for the Last Battle. I must help you be there! Whatever is necessary, I will do!&#8217; And she flung herself faced down, pressing her lips to the polished stone in front of his boots&#8221;</blockquote>There is a great difference between that and Verin&#8217;s plain acceptance of the facts. Verin&#8217;s compulsion must have played a part in this. Also, Elza seems to constantly be in a bad mood and wearing a sullen face. She clearly is completely opposed to what she is doing, whereas Verin seems to take it all in her stride. Yet another fact about this is that during the finale in Winter&#8217;s Heart Elza thinks about the Chosen and the Great Lord. She even asks Beldeine if she can assume control of the link to ensure that the Chosen are not harmed. Verin, however, thinks about how useful a captured Forsaken would be and immediately tried to Shield Greandal, then proceeds to fend for her life. So as you see, Verin does what she does out of freewill and necessity, whatever the danger. However Elza has to be compelled and even then avoids helping Rand too much. These very different reactions are due to being on opposite sides and ultimately Verin not being Black Ajah.<br /><br /><b>Verin&#8217;s other suspicious behavior</b><br /><br /><b>Verin and the Oaths</b><br />Many people will say that Verin can lie and therefore is not bound to the Oaths and so she must be Black. This is simply not true. Here are a few reasons why:<br /><br />1.<b>The Ingtar incident</b>- Verin says to Ingtar in TGH that &#8216;Moiraine sent her&#8217; but later on Rand asks her about this and Moiraine responds &#8216;I did not send Verin, she did that of her own free will&#8217;. RJ said that this is not a misstep. I don&#8217;t really think that Verin actually lied here, but rather she avoided the truth. What I do know for sure is that Verin is VERY smart. She has fooled the whole White Tower for years so &#8216;bending the truth&#8217; should come easily and should be very hard to spot. Also notice that she says it with a satisfied smile, which suggest she is getting away with something.<br /><br />2.<b>Egwene and the Whitecloaks</b>- When Egwene uses the One Power to scare off the White Verin is absolutely furious! She even speaks in capital letters at one stage. &#8216;BE SILENT!&#8217; Now this is the angriest I&#8217;ve ever seen Verin, she really, REALLY must take the three oaths seriously. I sincerely don&#8217;t think that after this reaction she would be able to lie herself. Reread it and you will see what I mean.<br /><br />3.<b>Avoiding lying</b>- Throughout the series she has repeatedly avoided lying to people. True a Black Ajah would be accustomed to keeping up pretence such as this but it could just be because she is still bound to the Oaths.<br /><br />4.<b>Self- justifications</b>- Repeatedly in her own PoV she makes little thoughts to herself to justify her words when she says something misleading. This shows that she is bound to the First Oath since if she were Black Ajah she would have no need to convince herself that it was still the truth. Much easier just to lie to Beldeine. No one would find out. <br /><br /><b>Verin and breaking Tower Law</b><br />On a number of occasions Verin seems to break all the rules. This would suggest to some that she is Black, or does it&#8230;.<br /><br />1.<b>The Compulsion</b>- Verin in her own words had &#8216;constructed something forbidden by the Tower since its founding&#8217; If you were looking for signs of the Black Ajah this would be a good one. However we know that she only did it out of curiosity. &#8216;Curiosity came first, usefulness came later&#8217; and she says that &#8216;curiosity had made her climb into more than one pickling kettle&#8217;. This does not sound like the motive of a Darkfriend. Also, she says that the weave itself was not dangerous, but that depended what you did with it. We know that the subject could die because of this weave, but is this because of the actual weave or merely the consequences? The Third Oath says that she cannot use the One Power to harm anyone except in the defence of her own life or that of her warder or another sister. Does this violate the Oath? I think not. This is because I think the knock-on effects of the weave is harmful and not the weave itself. The actual words were &#8216;The woman might die inside the year or in ten as a result of this weave, but the weave itself would not harm her&#8217;. The way this is phrased suggests to me that the carrying out of the orders is the dangerous part. For example, let&#8217;s pretend that one of the orders was &#8216;protect Rand at all costs&#8217;. She may carry this out by taking an arrow in the chest to save him, as Verin says it is all up to the individual and how they decide they must carry out the &#8216;suggestions&#8217;. All this together gives three good reasons why Verin isn&#8217;t Black. The first is her motive for learning compulsion, the second her decision not to harm the subject by giving her an overdose and forcing her suggestions into her and the third is the decision not to give any orders such as &#8216;try to escape&#8217; or &#8216;kill yourself and avoid Aiel punishments&#8217;. The last would be such an easy way to get rid of some Aes Sedai and possibly cause a major conflict between Rand and the White Tower. Additionally, do you think that all the Aes Sedai would have sworn fealty so soon if they were not &#8216;questioned&#8217; or did Verin just give Rand what he needed and save a lot of time that he maybe didn&#8217;t have?<br /><br />2.<b>Stolen artifacts</b>- Verin has stolen at least two things from the White Tower: an angreal in the shape of a flowery brooch and the ring ter&#8217;angreal. Siuan says that she didn&#8217;t know anything about the ter&#8217;angreal and no one knows about the angreal. She had had it for close to 50 years and never wore it. Is this because she is Black? Well, lots of other people have artifacts that are not strictly theirs. Moiraine had an angreal and Cadsuane had a nearly a whole storeroom of ter&#8217;angreal about her person. Neither is Black so this does not prove anything either way.<br /><br />3.<b>Breaking customs</b>- When Alanna bonds Rand she thinks afterwards to herself that she &#8216;had broken a few customs in her time&#8217;. This probably refers to her Compulsion and theft among other things, but this is really no proof of being Black. Siuan, Moiraine, Alanna, Elaida and most especially Cadsuane have all broken Tower laws repeatedly but none of them is Black.<br /><br /><b>Verin and secrets</b><br />Verin is keeping a hell of a lot of secrets from everybody, that&#8217;s obvious. But is this because she is of the darker persuasion? I think not. Firstly her book is in code, but what it contains has nothing to do with anything Black. The first time her book appears is in TGH at the very first meeting. She is studying her book and has a pile of flowers beside her; later on in PoD we see that this book includes pictures of flowers. She also produces this very same book when she arrives back at the White Tower with Egwene. She has had no opportunity to change her book, and indeed the description of the cover is the same. This gives us an idea of its contents. Siuan asks about Falme and Verin produces her book and starts to read out sections on the Seanchan. Basically what the book holds is lots of information that she has gathered up on her travels. Why she writes this in code is another theory, but for now it could be simply because she doesn&#8217;t wish to share anything she doesn&#8217;t have to, and if the book fell into the wrong hands it would be quite disastrous.<br /><br />Another thing is the location of her study. Egwene remarks that it is very remote and not even the servants go there much. This can easily be dismissed. Verin is Brown, she likes to work alone and a place close to the library is ideal. Nothing suspicious.<br /><br /><br /><b>Conclusion</b> <br />Seeing all the facts on Verin shows that either she is the stupidest and most incompetent Black Ajah member OR she is not Black at all and just is very mysterious. Now the one thing we do know for certain about Verin is that she is VERY smart so which is it? I&#8217;ll let you decide, and remember to post your replies on the message board!<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-26 01:23:24
subject: Creator - Stronger than the Dark One
body:
<p>Many theories have been going around recently based on the assumption that the Creator and the Dark One are absolute equals.  I ask you to recall from wherever Lanfear tried to talk Rand into joining her with the Choedan Kal.  Not an exact quote, but:<br /><br />&quot;With the Choedan Kal, we could rule the world.  More, we could overthrow the Dark One.  We could probably even challenge the Creator&quot;.<br /><br />Thus, we can conclude that the natural (non-shadowspawnic) order of the universe's power goes:<br />Creator<br />Dark One<br />Humanity and Ogier<br />Probably Wolves, since they're sentient<br />Other things, living and nonliving<br /><br />Obviously, we can assume that if the Dark One were better, Lanfear would say so.  She likes power, and ranks things accordingly.  It seems as though the Creator really IS more powerful, but voluntarily does not touch the world, and the Dark One tries to touch it (succeeding to a point).<br /><br />Some would say that she's lying.  Well, why?  She is having an argument with one we know from her POV she still loves, if only for his power, and she's already talking about betraying the Dark One.  What possible reason would she have to tell Rand that he was championing the stronger pseudo-deity if she believed he wasn't?  If she failed to turn him, as she did, that could only harm the dark side.  She told truth.<br /><br />Others could say that she doesn't really know.  Well, she would know better than any of said others, she HAS talked with the Dark One, unlike you guys <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> I like it<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> Not only have I not seen one like this before, you offer what I believe to be solid inductive reasoning to prove your theory. It has merit.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-26 01:28:41
subject: Luc is Isam's prisoner
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<p>Now here we have the First Prince of Andor. Nothing in any of the books says that he was a darkfriend, so why is he fighting for the dark one? He's Not!<br /><br />He is Isam's prisoner, and they switch around every now and then, but I'm certain that Luc is not doing it consentually.  Besides that, the only bad thing he ever really did was kill Rand's Dad, which is understandable, because wetlanders are scared to death of Aiel.<br /><br />Well, that's all, maybe one of you fancy wotmania kids can redo this theory with some impressive proof.<br /><br />I'm too tired to do it<br /><br />Kidblondeel<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Try to go back into the books and find some proof. I, for one, disagree based on the fact that when I first read the books I felt that Luc was turned to the Dark One when he went into the Blight. I could be wrong. It was just a feeling that I had.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-26 01:33:29
subject: Shocklance
body:
<p>I know everyone here knows that Mat is gonna discover gun powder. <br /><br />What everyone doesn't know is that it isn't the first time that explosives and guns have been in WoT.<br /><br />If you'll remember, everyone who remembers the Age of Legends, or scenes in the Age of Legends, speak of shocklances. Shocklances, I used to think, could literally be lances that perhaps were created by Aes Sedai and fired lighting out of the tip, but now I realise it's just like all the other symbolism for things in the past being like things in real Earth.<br /><br />Shocklances are guns, rifles or cannons more likely, but they are definily fire arms, and I am sure that Mat is gonna work with one of those smart guys at one of Rand's schools to create cannons or guns and they're gonna be used by the Band of the Red Hand. <br /><br />Well I gotta go, Hope one of the many theories I've written tonight will end up posted,<br /><br />Kidblondeel<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> I have thought the same thing on many occasions. At first I thought that they were handheld tazer-like things, but I think you are right.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-26 11:54:23
subject: Gareth Bryne the Blackcoat
body:
<p>There have been numerous refrences in the books where Gareth Bryne recognises saidar is being channeled.<br /><br />Examples are common, but the most significant is when Siuan tries to use the Power after she is unstilled. She is too weak to do anything, but Gareth Bryne knows she tried something. Maybe he felt a slight effect, but I am sure that later on he knows when Aes Sedai are channeling.<br /><br />The vital fact is his reaction: he shivers! Everytime Rand detects saidar he shivers also. QED.<br /><br />So, Gareth Bryne is probably someone able to be taught how to channel saidin. That may explain how he got to such a high rank.<br /><br />The other argument is his relationship with Siuan. Not just their history together, but the idea of one person representing saidar (Amyrlin Seat at that) and someone who will learn to channel saidin is a classic love/hate relationship. Just as saidin and saidar pull apart and are yet drawn together, so are Gareth Bryne and Siuan.<br /><br />Who knows, maybe Gareth Bryne will compleletly unstill Siuan?</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> That's very interesting, I really never noticed Gareth shivering.  I'll have to go look for that sometime.  It could possibly be something that all males can do if they are observant enough, though.  Does it necessarily mean that he could learn to channel?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-27 00:28:34
subject: Black and White
body:
<p>Again we look at the Aes Sedia symbol of the Ying Yang.<br />We have the White tower on one side, and, I believe, the Black Tower is the other.<br />This ancient symbol shows the Male Sedai and Female Sedai co-interacting peacefully with power equally distributed, but in this Age there seems to be a wierd sense in the Male Sedai.<br />Instead of being fully pledged to fight the Dark One, there seems to be a mist of uncertainty, perhaps a willingness to be conquerers?<br />We know that Taim has drummed hatred into his men and that they are more his pets than they were ever Rand's, so is this another step in Taim's grab for power?<br />After all, who needs to be at Rand's strength when you have hundreds of Asha'man at your fingertips?<br /><br />Surely the Black Tower isn't as willing to follow Rand to thier deaths as plain as he is, so what exactly has Taim got in mind?<br />So many questions, but all we can do is wait, but Taim is on the right track to pull the carpet of Asha'man out from under Rand's feet and perhaps take up war with the White Tower. This would prove as a twist if Taim decided to attack just as Egwene overthrew the upsurper Eladia.<br />Then Rand would be forced to choose whether his friends were more important than regaining the command of the Asha'man.<br />Sitting on the fence seems to be a new Talent for Rand, but if such a problem presented itself I would not be suprised if the breaking of the world occurred between the two power houses of the Land.<br />Black and White...</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Interesting. I think that you might be on to something there. Taim definately doesn't like Rand, and the Asha'Man seem to obey Taim before Rand, so Taim might just be trying to destroy the Dragon Reborn. We can't forget Logain though. I think that he might just be waiting for the right time to eradicate Taim.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-27 18:13:13
subject: Osan'gar is alive
body:
<p>It is my belief that Osan'gar is alive.  Recall, Osan'gar is in fact Aginor, the genius who created many of the Dark One's minions, including Trollocs and Myrddrall.  I would have to assume that he had many defenses in place, knowing that he was headed into a very dangerous situation.<br /><br />Also recall that every time a Forsaken has died for sure, we have either seen a body, seen them hit by balefire, or seen their death (Asmodean).  I agree with the theories that Sammael escaped Mashadar using the True Power, and I believe that Osan'gar was also able to escape.  After all, a fireball, even with Callandor's power, should NOT be able to destroy a Forsaken who is prepared for danger.  Also, remember that there were no remains.  Bone does not burn except at EXTREME temperatures.  The hill did not turn molten, though it did lose it's top.  I have to conclude that Osan'gar escaped through a portal.  With the amount of Saidin being channeled in the area, it's easy to realize why no one felt his gateway opening if he did indeed use the One Power.  Or, he could have used the True Power, realizing it was an emergency.  We haven't seen the last of Dashiva.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-27 18:22:03
subject: The Missing Sa'angreal
body:
<p>We all know where the most powerful sa'angreal and the third most powerful sa'angreal are, but what about the second?  The answer: Bayle Domon has it in his collection of weird things. <br /><br />Look at what we know of his collection.<br />1. the seal<br />2. the ivory statue(looks alot like Moirain's angreal)<br />3. the crystal rod (looks alot like the female sa'angreal used in Mat's healing)<br /><br />Could it be that this rod is the elusive second most powerful male sa'angreal?<br /><br />We know that the rod sa'angreal in the tower is the most powerful female sa'angreal that has been found, so could it be that the crystal rod that Bayle has is the matching male sa'angreal?</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> But if the crystal rod in the tower is the female equivalent of the second most powerful sa'angrael, then shouldn't it be at least as powerful than Callandor?  I get the feeling that, though it may be the strongest found by the Tower, it is far from being the equivalent of even Callandor, much less the second most powerful male sa'angrael.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-29 00:00:00
subject: Does Mat have a 'thing' for Egwene?
body:
<p></p><p>Matrim kneeling before Egwene - <i>"for a moment he looked up at her, cleared his throat and stood up"</i></p><p>When I read this I thought this was a very odd scene between two old friends.  But when you re-read TDR hints are given.</p><p>Whilst Rand has a dream of Elayne, Egwene & Nynaeve being caught in a trap, Egwene dreams of Mat dicing with the DO and shouting <i>"I am coming"</i> to her only, no mention of Elayne & Nynaeve.  Mat mentions saving <i>"Egwene and theothers"</i> no less than eight (8) times on his journey to the Stone.  Once or twice can be glossed over, but not eight times.  Referring to Elayne & Nynaeve as 'others' clearly indicates that Egwene is Mat's first priority.</p><p>He finds they have been taken at Mother Guenna's. He punches the wall and she replies <i>"it seems you care for them, one of them at least"</i> and <i>"whoever you have your eye on will have a hard time training you"</i>.  Mat doesn't reply directly to the question.</p><p>Thom has witnessed all Mat's concerns for Egwene.  Later when Mat is fretting over Egwene becoming Amyrlin he tells a story of saving a woman he loved from her bootmaker husband.  Mat replies that he is just trying to <i>"save her fool neck"</i>.  Thom murmurs <i>"save her from the bootmaker you mean"</i>.  Mat ignores what he said.</p><p>Also the kneeling scene occurs after Myrelle asks whether Egwene has bonded him as a Warder.</p><p>Given all this I believe Mat will high-tail it to TV as soon as possible, and Tuon with her sharp mind may notice Mat's protectiveness of Egwene.  Maybe the <i>"Female Golden Hawk tied somehow to Egwene's future"</i> is Tuon and that jealousy may play a part.  Perhaps Lidya's Fortelling mentioned something about another woman and this is why Tuon got angry.  She may also believe this woman was Tylin.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Whoa!  Now this certainly is different.  I must say you present a convincing argument for your theory.  Mat does seem to show all the classic signs of denial (EEEEWWWWWW!  Girls have cooties!)  I'm just trying to figure out how RJ could present yet another plot thread and close it up in the span of a few books.  We have yet to see what will come of Egwene and Gawyn.  Throwing Mat in the mix presents a whole slew of possibilities, especially since being as proud as Gawyn is, he certainly hasn't forgotten the smackdown a famished, Mashadar-weakened Mat laid on him.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-29 00:00:00
subject: Andoran Houses and Four Armies
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<p></p><p>When at the 9th of Saban Lady Elayne returned to Caemlyn from her meeting with Borderlanders, Master Halwin Norry informed her that <i>"There are four small armies approaching Caemlyn, from the east"</i>, <i>"Twenty thousand men. Perhaps thirty."</i> (WH-chapter 27).</p><p>Whose armies can that be?  Lady Elayne has already answered that question in part: <i>"Elenia had estates, and forces, in the east, but so did Naean. But neither could rise twenty thousand men."</i>  For the time being for Elayne <i>"It did not matter"</i>, but wotmaniacs must try to puzzle out whom and why is approaching the Andorian capital.</p><p>It is entirely impossible that Lady Naean Arawn and Lady Elenia Sarand could assemble huge force in such a short time - only eight days earlier the information that both Ladies has been freed 5 miles from Aringill, has reached Caemlyn (WH-7).  Taking into account the delay caused by pigeon mail we can presume that Naean and Elenia had around a week (in Randland it means 10 days) to form their armies.  But we can also presume that all the forces have been already collected and prepared for marching out when their Ladies are freed.  That scenario seems to be very probable.  If so, we have to come to the conclusion that someone has been supporting Naean and Elenia for quite a long time.  That person must be someone very high in the hierarchy of power in Andor, and reasonable enough to convince both aristocrats to co-operate with him or her.  That person also has to have influence or resources to maintain an army garrisoned in readiness for an escape of the two Ladies.</p><p>There is only one candidate for that person - it is Lady Dyelin Tarasin. Yes, this Lady Dyelin, who after the meeting with Lord Dragon (LoC-16) realised, that he is not going to give the Lion Throne to her but to Lady Elayne Trakand.  She therefore accepted the position of the Regent of Andor, giving her the real but temporary power, together with time for preparations for taking over the Throne if such an opportunity occurs.  At the beginning she arrested Naean and Elenia in order to neutralised them as rivals.  Next she perhaps forced them to give up their demands in exchange of help in escaping from the captivity and some other concession i.e. part of the House Trakand estates.  Dyelin could have also discourage Houses of Norwelyn, Traemane and Pendar in supporting Lady Elayne and encourage Houses of Coelan, Renshar and Carand to send their armies westwards at the Murandy's border against Egwene's army.  She probably counted for the martial conflict successfully excluding those Houses from the Game for Andors Throne.  In Caemlin Dyelin sustained the general chaos in Andorian politics with her as one of the strongest candidates for the Throne.  She must have given the formal power to Elayne when she came back to Caemlin, remaining however on the position of her entrusted advisor.  In that way she gained the access to all secrets of the state and kept her influence on politics.  Unfortunately for her she was not able to block the decision of Lady Elayne of enlarging the Palace Guards commanded by Lady Birgitte Trahelion: <i>"Light's mercy, this is madness! You could turn every hand against you..."</i>  Lady Elayne is not totally defenceless any more.</p><p>It is also possible that Lady Dylelin is simply a Darkfriend, this <i>"woman in the Palace"</i> mentioned by Marillin (WH-10), and co-operating with Daved Hanlon.  This woman does not have to be a Black Sister as Murellin suspects.</p><p>Knowing this we can come back to the puzzle of 4 armies (5000-8000 armsmen each). One of them is probably formed by joined forces of 3 Houses (Sarand, Arawn and Anshar).  This army is probably led by Lord Jarid Sarand and is officially supporting his ambitious wife Lady Elenia in her fight for Rose Crown.</p><p>The second army is probably of the same size and is formed by forces of 3 other Houses namely Caeren, Marne and Baryn.  It is lead by Lord Nasin Caeren, and supports Lady Arymilla for the Andor Queen.  This is in line with Lady Elayne's calculations when she counted for the division of 6 hostile Houses for at least 2 rivalry groups (WH-pr).</p><p>The third army is probably also formed by 3 Houses undecided if they should support Lady Dyelin, or maybe Morgase Trakand's daughter who was pointed by Lord Dragon (LoC-16).  These are Houses of Norwelyn, Traemane and Ellorien.  This army is probably lead by Lord Luan Norwelyn that was present on the meeting with Lord Dragon (LoC-16).  Lord Davran Bashere has announced him incorrectly as Lord Pelivar Colean.</p><p>Fourth army is also the hardest to deduce.  We can be sure that it is not formed by Houses of Coelan, Renshar and Carand lead by Lord Pelivar.  It is so because on the day of 9th Saban these forces were still on the west.  It is possible that the army is formed by the remnants of White Lions called to Caemlyn by their leader Daved Hanlon?  This is not the only one possibility.  The second is that this is the private army of Lady Dyelin.  We can say nothing very conclusive on that point.  However we can rule out the army send from Cairhien by Lord Dobraine.  Lord Dragon told Lord Dobraine to support Lady Elayne as a candidate for the Sun Throne, but not the Lion Throne (WH-pr).  Apart from this, not enough time has passed since the day when Lord Dragon has left Cairhien in order to let Cairhienen army to cross Erinin.  My wish is that the 4th army is formed from Younglings and faithful Guardsmen, lead by Lord Gawyn Trakand. We should however remember that (i) he can not leave Tar Valon without permission of the Amyrlin Seat, (ii) it was prophesised that he needs to be with Egwene in order to help her in some way (probably to defeat Elaida).  What supports the idea that the 4th army is actually under Gawyn's command is the fact that Elayne has sent couple of letters to him with demand to come back.  He would almost certainly answer this call.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Wow!  You certainly put a lot of time and effort into this theory.  I must say that your numbers and facts concerning the great houses of Andor make convincing evidence.  I regret that we could not include the table you submitted with this theory, as it further corroborated your argument.  Certainly, this question has bothered all WOT fans since the release of <i>Winter's Heart</i>.  I suppose only time will reveal the armies' identity.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-29 00:00:00
subject: Lightfriends?
body:
<p></p><p>After browsing through the Theory Post I decided I had to write something to respond to some theories I thought were utterly ridiculous.  Namely, anything in support of "Lightfriends".  The problem I have with these theories, aside from the fact that there is no evidence for them, is that some people think they are the Creator's agents in the world(I refuse to use the "R" word), or that there is a power opposite the true power and used by these "Lightfriends".</p><p>My main evidence against these theories is the relationship between this world's time period and the real world's time period.  Robert Jordan has said that the world is meant to be at the same level as the real world was in the seventeenth or eighteenth century, only without gun powder.  This is evident through use of printing presses, the availability of books, the possibility of the steam engine being invented, etc.  In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries the predominant religious philosophy was Deism.  Deism fits very well along side the "Age of Enlightenment" and the "Age of Reason" that this time period was.  Deists believed that God was like a clockmaker, and the world was his clock.  He created it in the beginning and then stepped back and let it run without interfering in it.  Very rational, and well thought out.  This explains why "bad things happen to good people", because, like the Pattern, things just happen!  And not because God wills it to happen.  It just happens.</p><p>The Creator and the Dark One are both outside of the Pattern.  The Creator, being good, does not tamper with his creation and lets the Pattern weave things as it will.  The Dark One, being evil, attempts to alter the Pattern as he sees fit.  The Creator recognized this and imprisoned the Dark One at the moment of creation.  This is well known and accepted because Jordan says this about one hundred times in the books.</p><p>Now for actual evidence supporting the Deism philosophy in the world.  In the end of book one, Rand hears a voice in his head that everyone commonly accepts is the voice of the Creator.  It says "I WILL NOT TAKE PART", or something very close to that.  Clearly, the Creator refuses to take part in the world and have anything to do with the Pattern.  As such, there would not be a secret cabal of "Lightfriends" acting as the Creator's will in the world.  That is evil.  That is what the Dark One does.  The Creator will not take part.  So Verin, the wolves, Cadsuane, Moiraine, and anyone else that is accused of being a "Lightfriend" can only be one by going against everything the Creator stands for.  Similarly, there isn't a power that stems from the Creator to be used by his agents, as that too, would go against the Creator's very nature.</p><p>Therefore, there are NO "Lightfriends".  </p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, as most people know I detest the "Lightfriend" theory, but I think your reasoning is quite accurate.  Being Light or Dark isn't like being a Democrat or Republican.  Nobody is waiting until the big debate by the Creator and Dark One right before TG to see their stance on education, tax reform, environmental concerns, and whether the Wheel of Time should be broken before making their choice.  You are either Light or Dark.  That's it.  Those who do not choose Darkness are by default Light.  Sheesh.  The only thing I must warn about is the use of modern day theology as an argument supporting your views on WOT theology.  Remember, much of modern theology is based on faith.  In WOT they have directly seen the actions of the DO himself and directly heard the voice of the Creator (allegedly).  It makes the evolution of religion quite different.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-30 00:00:00
subject: Who rescues Moiraine (and why it's them)
body:
<p></p><p>Well, looking back on some of the previous posts, I agree that someone (or a group of people) will rescue Moiraine from her captivity in Finnland (the world accessed through the stone doorways and the Tower of Ghenji).  Before I go into this however, i'll tell you why I believe Moiraine to be alive but in captivity, while Lanfear, who also went to Finnland, apparently died there (to be reborn as Cyndane).</p><p>In <i>The Shadow Rising</i>, Moiraine warns that questions that touch on the Shadow may be dangerous in Finnland, and from this, we can assume that Darkfriends are probably not very welcome there.  Since Lanfear is quite beyond mere Darkfriend status, we can then assume that she met her demise there.  But Moiraine would not have to worry about such things, since she walks in the Light.</p><p>Anyway, getting back to the rescue, from the game of Snakes & Foxes (which is based upon interactions with the Finns in an earlier age, imho) we learn that they can only be beaten if you cheat, and also the phrase <i>"Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind"</i>.  When first arriving in Finnland, the Finns ask if you have any instrument of fire, music, or iron.  What better way to cheat than to have all three?</p><p>This brings me to the who.  I think that courage, iron, fire, and music are metaphor for people.  Iron would obviously be Perrin (the blacksmith), and just as obviously Music would be Thom (the Bard). This is where things get a little hazy.  It struck me after reading of Matt's interactions with Aludra in <i>Winter's Heart</i>, that Matt, after learning the secret of fireworks, is Fire.  Okay, that wasn't too hard, but the next one gets a little trickier.  Courage?  Who could that be?</p><p>I've thought about it, and I can come up with four plausible alternatives.... Rand, Lan, Olver, or Moiraine herself.</p><p>Okay firstly, Rand... he's got courage aplenty, and it'd have a nice symmetry having all three ta'veren going, but I don't think it too likely.</p><p>Next we have Lan... he's also one extremely courageous cat, and he really would like to get Moiraine back, being her Warder for so long and all.</p><p>Also, there's Olver, who is widely accepted as the current incarnation of Gaidal Cain, who, once again would have courage to burn, since he's a hero of the horn. There's also the added link between Olver and Snakes & Foxes.</p><p>Finally, Courage could be Moiraine herself. Throughout the series, Moiraine has been a steadfast character who will always do what she considers best, even if it endangers herself, and what better definition of courage is there?</p><p>I think a combination of four of these people are necessary to free Moiraine from her captivity in Finnland and bring her back into the real world.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> I am also of the opinion that Moiraine is trapped in Finnland and will be rescued.  I do think that the possibility of metaphor is intriguing.  I also happen to be of the belief that the colors swirling in the heads of our three <i>ta'veren</i> come from the Pattern trying to pull them back together.  Perhaps this is when they all get back together, the three of them and Thom saving Moiraine.  Somehow, though, I just don't think the logistics of the situation fit.  Perrin, Mat, and Rand are all so caught up in their individual agendas that I can't see how they would break free to band together and save Moiraine.  However, it is something to think about.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-06-30 00:00:00
subject: The Light of Mat's World
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<p></p><p>I don't think Mat is going to loose an eye, I think that reference is just symbolic of something more profound.  He is told he will have to <i>"give up half the light of the world to save the world"</i> and also, <i>"to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons"</i>.  As we all know, Mat doesn't seem to like conforming to anyone's orders, at least not easily, so why should we just assume that he will blindly follow these ones.  I don't think it really matters if Mat and Tuon are legally married or not at present, but I do think that Mat will fall madly in love with Tuon and she will become the Light of his world.  He believes that she is not really his type, he likes girls to be plumper, and probably to have more hair, and, of cause, he doesn't like nobles at all.  But as everyone knows, opposites attract, and people always fall for those that they believe are totally wrong for them.</p><p>I believe that at some stage, Mat is going to have to give up his "Light".  Tuon will somehow be removed from the action, either injured or held against her will.  I think it might have something to do with Anath possibly being Semirhage and either being forced to reveal her true identity, or trying to use Tuon in some other way to keep Mat away from Rand.  Mat will have to forget about saving his love to go to Rand's aid, and this will be like loosing half the light of the world to him.  Quite romantic really.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, your take on it is certainly different from the standard "Mat is going to lose an eye" theory.  However, one thing doesn't really make much sense to me.  Had the Finns said <i>"...give up the light of the world..."</i> then maybe this might make some sense.  But the Finns said  <i>"...give up <b>half</b> the light of the world..."</i>.  Your theory doesn't explain how losing his love, or Light, completely would amount to losing half of her.  Sorry, I'm just not buying it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-01 19:34:33
subject: Dispelling something on Verin&#8217;s 70-year plan
body:
<p>In this theory I will attempt to show that whatever Verin&#8217;s 70-year plan is, it has nothing to do with the Dragon Reborn.<br /><br /><b>Verin and Initial Responses</b><br />The first thing, and perhaps the most important, is Verin&#8217;s initial response to finding out that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. Although she seems pretty casual about it, it clearly isn&#8217;t something that she has spent a lot of time considering, especially not anywhere near 70 years. Here is the quote just after she meets Rand for the first time:<br /><blockquote>&#8216;He is stubborn as you said Moiraine. Much stronger than I expected. We may have to gentle him after all before&#8230;&#8217; Her eyes widened. &#8216;But we cannot, can we? The Prophecies. The Light forgive us for what we are loosing on the world&#8217;<br /></blockquote>Then again in TDR, she asks Suian Sanche if they have done the right thing. She needs convincing that this is the best course of action. Not what I would expect from someone that supposedly has been planning for this for 70 years. And a third time in LoC, in her own PoV she thinks how she had once warned Suian and Moiraine how dangerous Rand was and later on in the same PoV speculates if it would take the full thirteen to shield him. At this time she does only what she must for the sake of the Prophecies and the way I see it the sooner he fulfils them the better for her. Again in PoD she says &#8216;she had to keep Rand alive till he was meant to die.&#8217; <br /><br />Now as I see it all this is just responding to current events and the &#8216;seventy years of delicate work on her part&#8217; really cannot be the same thing. This brings me to conclude that her plan has nothing to do with Rand.<br /><br /><b>The 70 years doesn&#8217;t fit</b><br />In TGH when she reveals what she knows Suian and Moiraine want an explanation because they don&#8217;t trust her or they are afraid what she may do. Here is the crucial quote:<br /><br /><blockquote>&#8216;Sit down Verin and tell us all you know, and how you found out. Leave out nothing&#8217;&#8230; and Verin says &#8216;Forgive me Mother. It was nearly twenty years ago, with Tar Valon besieged, that I had my first clue, and that was only&#8230;&#8217;<br /></blockquote>It cuts off there and I would give a great deal to know the rest of that conversation! One thing about it though is that she must have convinced them she was not Black and that no one else would have known. But the most important bit is that she only got her first clue twenty years ago. How could she have planned for 70 years on the Dragon Reborn if she only got her first clue twenty years ago? What did she do for the other 50 years? What is all that delicate work about? There are no satisfactory answers for these questions, which leads me to believe that this is only a recent event compared to her plan.<br /><br />She also says that she had &#8216;lived too long, been through too much for it all to go for naught because of one young man&#8217; This clearly shows that she had been through a lot before Rand even appeared on the scene. Therefore he is not her cause, indeed it seems that he is in the way of her goals.<br /><br /><b>Reactions to Rand</b><br />Verin&#8217;s reaction to Rand is not at all what I would expect from someone that has bee awaiting his coming for 70 years. First of all she goes back to the Tower instead of sticking with him. If her plan were to protect him, she would have stuck by him, and the same if she wanted to give him advice. But it seems to me that she really isn&#8217;t interested at that stage. Even when Rand visits her at the inn in Caemlyn, she seems to ignore him or at least have her mind on something else. If she truly were a 70-year Dragonsworn I would expect her to hang on his every word and be eager to help him. Moiraine does this in a way, she attaches herself to him and she tries to teach him all she knows. She only was searching for 20 years. Verin also blames her involvement with him on the &#8216;Ta&#8217;veren swirl&#8217;. This indicates that she is not doing what she is out of free will.<br /><br />There is one other additional point that point to her plan not being about the Dragon. In Caemlyn she advises the Salidar embassy not to scare him off. Then later on, it turns out that she is actually the one that guided Demira&#8217;s suggestion that the embassy confront Rand. This was quite disastrous and resulted in him fleeing to Cairhien into the hands of the Tower Aes Sedai. Now if Verin wanted the meeting to be a success then why didn&#8217;t she attend it herself? She could have easily taken control over the Embassy to see to it that Rand was not harmed, and that he came to trust her. But this all assumes that she is on Rand&#8217;s side at this stage. The reason why she did not take a more active role is because at this stage she is not all that bothered about what Rand does, and realises that if the Salidar Embassy tries to control him it will be futile. Her exact words were &#8216;Wolf on a leash a thread thick&#8217; and she was the only one that realised that they needed him more than he needed them. As for how this fits into her plan I&#8217;m not sure , but what I do know is that if she really wanted the Dragon Reborn she missed an opportunity she would maybe never get again.<br /><br /><b>Reaction to Alanna</b><br />When Alanna bonds Rand, Verin does not seem overly shocked, or worried even. If she were a keen supporter of Rand she would have been worrying on how it would affect him and would be berating Alanna. However she only states quite calmly what Alanna has done, and later on she asks Alanna &#8216;What were you at, bonding him like that?&#8217; She says it quite casually and slips it in to the conversation. Is she in on this? If she is or not it doesn&#8217;t matter, since anyone who had studied the Dragon Reborn for 70 years would not even have considered such a move, never mind pass it by like it was of no consequence. Additionally, one of the questions they discussed later on was what use the bond could be to them. This is clearly something she had not considered before. If her plan were to do with keeping Rand safe then she would have considered on how to control him. She has not.<br /><br /><b>Why the secrecy?</b><br />Another great mystery is the secrecy that Verin surrounds herself with. I realise that she would have to keep it a secret if she supported him before, but now everything is out in the open and he has been acknowledged to be the Dragon Reborn, why does she still keep up the charade? She never told Moiraine or Suian that she has been following the same cause as them. Neither has she said to Cadsuane or Sorilea that she wants to help the Dragon Reborn. Both of these last two have considerable influence, and why have we not seen a pact such as that between Sorilea and Cadsuane with Verin? Furthermore, she has had plenty of opportunities to tell Rand her intentions. She has not however and this leads me to believe that Verin&#8217;s secret cause has nothing to do with him. The maintained secrecy just doesn&#8217;t fit.<br /><br /><b>Her plan has been put aside for the moment</b><br />This is a very important thing to bear in mind. There have been lots of cases where Verin has hinted that Rand and her plan are entirely different things. The reason why it may look like Verin&#8217;s plan has something to do with him is because she has set aside her plan for a moment and taken up a new more important cause, and that IS to make sure Rand fulfils the prophecies. Here are some instances where I think this is shown:<br /><br />1.&#8216;She had lived too long, been through too much&#8230;for all to go for naught because of one young man&#8217; (LoC, Lessons and Teachers)<br />2.&#8216;Take care of what can be done now before worrying too long over what might never be&#8217; (LoC, Lessons and Teachers)<br />3.&#8216;Verin already had reasons for the path she followed, and purpose&#8217; (PoD, Deceptive Appearances)<br />4.&#8216;Her own efforts would be aided no end, with luck&#8217; (PoD, Deceptive Appearances)<br />5.&#8216;She still had a task, to keep Rand alive till he was meant to die&#8217; (PoD, Deceptive Appearances)<br /><br />The first clearly shows that Rand is in the way of what she is striving to achieve. This coupled with her reactions to him in earlier books suggests that she does not see helping him as her main concern&#8230;yet. <br /><br />The second shows that she may be changing her mind on the issue, she can help Rand at the moment, but that would mean putting all her efforts to the side until the Last Battle is over. Also it looks as if she is quoting someone, but I can&#8217;t figure out who said it, or if we even know. Can anyone help with this? <br /><br />The third maybe shows that her two plans (Rand and the 70-year one) either coincide or she is solely concerned with Rand for the time being. <br /><br />The fourth, again I think points to her two plans coinciding. This refers to her giving a list of weaknesses to Sorilea. <br /><br />The fifth and final clearly shows that Rand is her priority now. As you see there is a transition between which cause she thinks is most important at the time. <br /><br />However, I can&#8217;t help feeling that Verin wishes that she could get back to her old plan. She seems to give all the Aes Sedai a &#8216;helping hand&#8217; in swearing fealty. She wants Rand to have a number of reliable Aes Sedai around him so that she does not have to worry about him. Note also that in PoD she thinks that Cadsuane is dangerous and unpredictable. However, as soon as she is sure that Cadsuane means to protect Rand she immediately goes to see him in the inn. And what does she say? Yes, Cadsuane would make a very good advisor, and she even gives him tips on how to keep her. Note that she refuses to tell Cadsuane herself that Rand wants her as an advisor. Possibly because that whole meeting was a secret. Now, as I see it Verin has seen to it that Rand is surrounded by people she KNOWS will fight for him to the bitter end. She has total confidence in all of them and knows that Cadsuane is the best possible choice for his advisor. So maybe she has even fulfilled her plan to keep Rand alive. She doesn&#8217;t have to do it personally but she can see to it that he is surrounded by others that will. All of which means that possibly, possibly she may now move on to her 70-year plan again. If THAT is true the next few books will tell us a lot about Verin and her mysterious history.<br /><br /><b>Conclusion</b><br />Well, my conclusion is simply this. Verin&#8217;s 70-year plan is nothing to do with the Dragon Reborn. However, that cause has become her priority somewhere between LoC and PoD prologue. Do not confuse the two!<br /><br />Well I hope thats another Verin myth out of the way! Now comes the hard part....what is Verin's theory all about? Watch this space!<br /><br /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Nice, long, thought-out theory there. Whew!!, took me awhile to read it. I think that your theory has definately shown that Verin's 70-year plan has nothing to do with Rand. I do remember that once she said, &quot;If only I could split in three...I would attach myself to each of them even if I had to marry them.&quot; This shows that she wasn't quite as disinterested in them as you say she is.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-01 19:42:33
subject: Secret of Making
body:
<p>I'm not sure if you all remember, but in the first book, Moiraine had that crazy staff she carried around with her, as well as her blue stone.  And I remember she specifically stated that the staff and her stone had no power at all, in fact weren't even <i>angreal</i> or power related, and that she just used them to focus the power.<br /><br />And whenever we hear about <i>angreal</i> being described they are said to be like magnifying glasses for the power focusing it and such.<br /><br />And Egwene knows the trick too. I know this because she picks up a stone in one of the later books and uses it to focus the Power or something.  I'm not sure of the place, but she was studying with the Wise Ones, and it was after Rand had taken Cairhein, but I think it was before the Aes Sedai kidnapped him, but don't quote me on that, I'm not certain.<br /><br />So getting back to the point, even if Moiraine doesn't come back from the Tower of Ghenji, Egwene can still unlock the secret of making angreal.  Her and Elayne, because Elayne has the Talent for making power related objects(<i>ter'angreal</i> and such).<br /><br />The secret I believe is directly related to Moiraine's tricks with sticks and stones.<br /><br />Hope you all agree with the theory till next time. <br /><br />Kidblondeel<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Ummm...and you base this on...what?  You come out and state that Moiraine's staff is not Power related, yet this has something to do with <i>ter'angreal</i>, and there's a quote that corroborates this, but you don't know where, so don't quote you on it.  O...K...</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> You should go back and find some of the quotes that you mentioned and post them later. I think that Egwene and Elayne will figure out angreal without Moiraine's help at all.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-01 00:00:00
subject: Taimandred - Based Soley on "Lord of Chaos"
body:
<p></p><p>Our Theory begins in the Prologue of Book 6. A group of Forsaken are chatting socially, as they are seldom wont to do. More importantly, Demandred has come in with orders from the Dark One, which he received earlier on in the prologue. They have a big plan. I mean big. But now for some quotes. Demandred is talking, Mesaana's PoV.</p><p><i>"You want to know what the Great Lord told me? Very well.<br />"Let the Lord of Chaos Rule. His words, exact."</i><br /></p><p>Then he told them the rest. Mesaana found herself shivering and did not know whether from excitement or fear. It could work; it could hand them everything. But it required luck, and gambling made her uncomfortable.  Demandred was the gambler.</p><p>I'm tempted to finish the theory right here. The above quote is simply all that is required, I believe. We have Demandred with a very ambitious plan, that will require luck, and could hand the Forsaken everything. What better fits this criterion better than Taimandred? They have a source of madmen to increase chaos and increase the supply of Dreadlords, someone who can (hopefully) gain Rand's confidence and can stick around him, as well as being able to direct what will foreseeably be the most powerful organisation in Randland.</p><p>They don't do much serious plotting apart from this. There is of course the Seanchan, but that doesn't really require luck, it was only a matter of time. There is Aran'gar and Osan'gar infiltrating the major camps of the good guys, but that wouldn't hand them "everything". This paragraph is screaming Taimandred. But if you aren't convinced, have no fear - there's lots more evidence coming.</p><p>We now shift to the Arrival of Taim. This is Chapter 2, "A New Arrival." Yes, that's chapter two. Only two after the prologue. But I digress. There are a few unusual things about Taim, which I shall quote now. Rand's PoV.</p><p><i>Bashere took advantage of the silence. "You say you're Mazrim Taim?" He sounded doubtful, and Rand looked at him in confusion. Was this Taim or not?  Only a madman would claim that name if it was not his.<br />"I shaved, Bashere."</i></p><p>If Bashere's men and the Aiel decided to kill Taim, the man would have a hard time escaping that courtyard however he channeled, unless Rand helped him. Yet Taim paid the soldiers and the Maidens no more outward attention than he did the collonades' columns or the paving stones beneath his boots. Bravery, real or feigned, or something else? A kind of madness?</p><p>Taim looks "like" Bashere remembered, but not quite. Don't worry though, RJ is here to prod us along. <i>"Only a madman would claim that name if it was not his."</i> and then, <i>"A kind of madness?"</i> Taim is acting like a madman would - foolishly daring. Or, like a forsaken who has a plan that "required luck". Jordan deliberately mentions the word "madman" twice here, to set our minds at work. Demandred's ambitious plan would surely seem to be a little bit of madness to an outsider, like Rand.</p><p>The fact that Bashere doesn't recognise Taim at first is important as well. Of course, it could fit in with Taim=Taim, but it fits far better with Taimandred. The best Illusion is the one that changes the least. Demandred's description in other chapters is close to that we see of Taim here.</p><p>Still not convinced? Not to worry...</p><p>The next scene is in the very next chapter, "A Woman's Eyes."Demandred really gives himself away here. Rand's PoV.</p><p>[Rand] <i>"Sooner or later you will come up against the Forsaken, following me. Maybe before the Last Battle. Probably before. You don't seem surprised."</i></p><p>[Rand] <i>"Keep a watch out for any student who learns to fast. Let me know immediately. One of the Forsaken might try to slip in among the students."</i><br />[Taim] <i>"One of the Forsaken!" It was almost a whisper. For the second time, Taim looked shaken, this time well and truly taken aback.</i></p><p>Quite amazing, that. Not a touch of concern at the mention of the Forsaken coming up against him, but when the idea of Forsaken infiltrating the Asha'man are mentioned, he is goosed. Quite amazing indeed. Note: these quotes are only one page apart. Also note the relatively long description of Taim's shock. If Jordan was prodding us on before, he is bludgeoning us along now.</p><p>Not convinced? You won't stand much longer.</p><p>The next scene with Taim is Chapter 11, "Lessons and Teachers." Taim and Rand are at the farm chatting. Rand's PoV.</p><p>[Taim]<i> "Who can say what these so-called Aiel will do."</i>Need I say more? No. But I will. Does Taim=Taim have a chance at justifying this statement? Not a Darkfriend's chance in the Dome of Truth. Hmmm. Scrap that last image please, but you get the message. Only a Forsaken would know what the Aiel were like in the Age of Legends, would know they were called the Da'shain Aiel and served the Aes Sedai, following the Way of the Leaf. The only other characters to use the phrase "so-called Aiel" were Lanfear that I can remember, and I think Osan'gar as well. If you aren't convinced, it's about time to find a gun and shoot yourself.</p><p>Maybe one more paragraph, though <img src="images/smile.gif" /></p><p>Our next scene is chapter 28, "Attack of the Killer Gray Man". Wait, no, that's not it. It's "Letters." Boring. Speaking of which, this post might be getting a bit boring by now, but I'm almost done <img src="images/smile.gif" />.</p><p>A Gray man comes to attack Rand, Taim is there just at the right time to kill it. But we have so much evidence we don't need to use this fact. On to the quote. The Gray man has just been killed.</p><p>[Rand] <i>"That had to come from Sammael."</i><br />Taim: <i>"I would give a great deal to be sure." That had the ring of simple truth.</i></p><p>It's the last seven words of this quote that are critical. It's not often that Jordan will give us such a statement. He is not trying to say that Rand is really sure about this. He is saying for sure that Taim is telling the truth. By why would Taim=Taim give a great deal to be sure? Sounds a bit out of character. But very in character for Demandred. From "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" and other evidence from book 6, we know that part of the Dark One's orders are not to kill Rand. If Sammael had attempted this, Demandred would be able to use this to overcome Sammael. Note the inquiry into Sammael made by Moridin and Shaidar Haran in book seven (they were called "the watcher" or something similar), and Moridin's subsequent aiding of Rand at the end of book 7, when he thought Sammael had disobeyed the Great Lord's orders. This shows that Demandred would be interested in the above fact. Ok, if you're not convinced, point that gun.</p><p>The Scene is Chapter 42, "The Black Tower." The title asha'man has just been officially created.  He is giving Taim his Dragon and Sword pins. PoV is - you guessed it - Rand.</p><p>Keep reading, the end is in sight!</p><p><i>Taim walked to the block stiffly, and Rand bent to pin the silver sword to the tall collar of his coat...</i></p><p>Taim's face had as much expression as the stone beneath Rand's boots...</p><p>Taim's face made stone look soft, what was wrong with the man?...</p><p>He was holding the bag of sword pins so tightly it was a wonder none of them stabbed him through the cloth.Looking at Taim, who was making no effort to hide his disdain...</p><p>[Rand] "What has gotten into you? You've had a burr in your breeches ever since I put those badges on you. Is it something to do with them?"  The most remarkable transformation came over the man. Taim shook visibly - with rage, Rand would have said, not fear - but when the shaking stopped, he was his old self again.</p><p>Taim, for some unfathomable reason, is really angry at getting the medals. He starts going blank-faced when Rand gives him his medals, then later when they are talking about it he cracks. Taim would be a proud man, but this is still a rather unusual reaction for him. What about Demandred though?</p><p>A quote from the Guide page 58, Demandred's entry:</p><p><i>He was furious when Lews Therin was appointed over him to command the forces opposing the Shadow.  Second once again, his hatred and jealousy of Lews Therin Telamon increased with every honour Lews awarded him.</i></p><p>Aha. We've hit the jackpot. Taim's reaction is perfectly explained by his envy and hatred of Lews Therin, and according to the Guide, <i>"He simply transfered his hatred intact to Rand al'Thor"</i> when he realised Lews Therin was long dead.</p><p>Not convinced? All right. Ready. Aim... FIRE!</p><p>We have a bit of colateral evidence, which is not incredibly conclusive, but is interesting nonetheless.</p><p>In the Prologue, we have this description of Demandred, </p><p>"the corners of his mouth twitched, as close to a smile as Mesaana had ever seen him."</p><p>In almost every scene featuring Taim, we have exactly the same:</p><p><i>"The prisoner's mouth quirked in what might have been the beginning of a smile."<br />"Taim's mouth quirked again. It really was not a smile; it never touched his eyes."<br />"Taim's mouth quirked in that near smile."<br />"Taim flashed that half-smile again."<br />"Taim turned to Rand, that almost-smile on his lips"</i></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, if it's only based on Book 6, how is it you include a quote from the guide, huh?  Riddle me that, Riddler!  <img src="images/wink.gif" />  Actually, this was a very concise and well written Taimandred theory.  And I must admit that I am a proponent of the Taimandred theory.  However, these points have been argued ad infinitum.  Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.  I take one of your arguments as an example.  Perhaps Taim showed nervousness at the mention of Forsaken infiltrating the Asha'man because he was Demandred's proxy and already knew that Aginor was joining the ranks.  Any Darkfriend would cower in terror knowing that one of Chosen would be right there.  So, we probably won't know whether Taim is or is not Demandred until RJ makes the answer painfully obvious.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-02 11:19:23
subject: Logain's Halo
body:
<p>We all know Min has had several viewings of Logain's aura, and they always contain a glowing Halo that she interprets as him receiving glory perhaps more than any man. (I guess Rand could be assumed to be more than just a man.)<br /><br />It seems to me the only way to accomplish this is to have a very active, and successful role during the Final Battle. <br /><br />Rand is apt to get into situations where he is unable to strike the final blow (vs. Lanfear especially). I see this coming into play during the Final Battle, where something he will have to do will effect those with him (most likely Perrin, Matt, and the rest of the crew.) Perhaps the need to strike would injure or kill others, and he just wont have the heart to do it. Especially after Cadsuane teaches him not to be so &quot;hard&quot;.<br /><br />This is where I see Logain coming in and saving the day. Either sacrificing himself to get the job done or doing something spectacular to help win the final battle.<br /><br />To me, Logain is one of the most interesting and most enjoyable story lines...I hope to see him much more in the final books.<br /><br /><br /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Hmmm...I suppose it is possible, but I've always been of the belief that the aura is related to Logain eventually wresting control of the Asha'man from Taim.  The prologue of WH already shows that Logain is none too thrilled with Taim's methods.  Perhaps once he becomes head of the Black Tower, Logain will lead the Light Asha'man (since there are dark ones) in Tarmon Gaidon and do something very heroic also.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-02 11:56:37
subject: &quot;So-called Aiel&quot;
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<p>I must confess that I am dumbfounded as to how about 40% still think Taim is Demandred, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.  The arguments that Taim is Demandred have dwindled to pretty much three points, which I will discuss here.  I'm not going to go into the evidence against why Taim is just Taim, because it's well known.<br /><br />1)  <b>Taim Looks Like Demandred Enough for LTT to rant about it</b><br /><br />So what?  Isn't it possible that throughout the course of history, two people might look just a bit alike?  I look enough like my brother for us to be twins, but no one accuses ME of being my brother in disguise.  Rand might even look like LTT used to (at least when he was young).  It's just coincidence.<br /><br />2)  <b>Taim Hates Rand</b><br /><br />Of course he does.  For thirty some odd years, Taim has been romping around the world, learning about the Power.  About a year or so ago, he declared himself the Dragon Reborn and tore large chunks out of Saldaea.  Then, Rand comes out of nowhere and causes Taim's defeat (remember in The Great Hunt/The Dragon Reborn?).  Taim then has to run for his life.  He hides out with Rand, who sets him up as a glorified baby-sitter for the Asha'Man.  He's extremely jealous that a kid from a backwater has achieved more power than Taim ever did.  There's no need to accuse him of being Demandred just to find a reason for him to hate Rand.<br /><br />3)  <b>The So-Called Aiel comment</b><br /><br />To my knowledge, this has never been explained in any way other than Demandred knew a different Aiel in the AoL.  Here is what I think.  Taim has been channeling for 30 or so years.  He probably started around 18 or so, which makes him about fifty.  This means that he was in his thirties when the Aiel invaded.  Recall, everyone in Randland (i hate that name) is terrified of the Aiel.  During and after the Aiel war, they were depicted as monsters.  Bloodthirsy killers who owe allegience to no one.  Then, Rand appears with a bunch of Aiel totally under his control.  Rand's Aiel do not seem all that bloodthirsty at first glance.  It's quite possible that Taim believes Rand gathered an army from somewhere or other and dressed them up as Aiel.  For Taim to accept that Rand is strong enough to survive the Aiel waste AND gain the allegience of the Aiel is too much.  He just doesn't believe that they are really Aiel.  Simple.<br /><br />There.  Let the flaming begin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> As someone who still remains a proponent of the Taimandred theory, I must admit that you propose a compelling argument against it.  In fact, nearly every piece of evidence that is used to argue for the theory can be used to argue against it, and vice versa.  I suppose only time will tell, and hopefully this will be put to rest by book 10. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-02 14:19:17
subject: Healing Severing By Sex And Related Topics
body:
<p>Ok I've been thinking this for along time (ever since Nynaeve first healed Logain, Siuan and Leane) and with the publication of Winter's Heart I have become even more sure I am correct.  Here goes.<br /><br />Saidar and saidin are the two opposing forces that turn the Wheel of Time  And neither one is ultimately greater than the other in fact their opposition is perfectly balanced.<br /><br />So wouldn't it make the most sense that a persons conduit to saidin or saidar be a link made of the opposing power.<br /><br />I consider this to be at least in someway parallel to our concepts of energy in the real world.  Concepts that in my explaination can be compared to static electricty and electrical current.  And by this I mean that static electricity does not produce much power because the electrons are moving through a medium(air) that has very little resistance.  While electrical current is substantially more powerful due to the resistance of the medium (usually metal) that the electrons travels across.<br /><br />So how does this really relate?  Well if you consider that saidar will have little or no resistance to itself creating a connection between a female channeler and saidar will give the channeler a lower amount of power much like static electricty moving through low resistance air.  Whereas the resistance of saidar to saidin would provide a male channeler with a larger amount of power like current moving along a metal conductor.<br /><br /><br />Now for my proof<br /><br />In Winter's Heart when Rand and Nynaeve cleanse saidin Rand devises that the connection would have to be saidar (something that would have resistance to saidin).  In the book he said it was because saidin would break apart from the taint,  however without the taint it might have broken anyway.  What would stop it from seeping through or changing the weave that it was passing through.  The conduit would provide no resistance (like air in the first part of this theory) so while some saidin might make it down the conduit not all of it would.  Another example can be found in that The Eye of the World needed both men and women because saidar was need to strain Saidin in order to get the clean saidin that was used by Rand at the end of EotW.  Again I say that it was not only because saidin was tainted(they died because it was tainted) but because saidin would have little to no resistance to itself. So even if saidin was clean and their was some other need to funnel it somewhere there would need to be a saidar conduit in order for all the saidin to make it to its destination.  This last sentence is the truly important part.  If a severed woman is healed with saidar her connection regardless of its capacity will leak because the power will not necessarily have to stay within the conduit there will be some attraction to following it like with static electricity but like with air that attraction is very small when compared to the attraction that draws current through a conductor that has resistance.<br /><br />::Side point #1 that really doesn't have anything to do with too much but.... the only reason a saidar to saidar connection would work is because their is a residual amount of the saidin connector remaining so the saidar part of the connection (parallel to air) travels (like static electricty) to the saidin part of the connection (conductor).  Otherwise a saidar healing of a saidar channeler would be temporary like static electricty or impossible.  If this was not true it might be possible to build a saidar connection to a female non channeler,  which i think would be very interesting idea but one which i think is impossible.  Neither would it work on a male non channeler because a saidar weilder would not be able to locate saidin to connect the man to it..... but then again if male and female channeler were to link they could do something like what Rand and Nynaeve did in my proof where the male channeler could find saidin and build the conduit of saidar to a non channeling male or female (Arangar) or vice-versa,  I almost want to post this idea separetly <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> but i'd have to tell you all the rest again so i'll just get your reaction here ::<br /><br />:Side Point #2  This same thinking along electrical lines might be applied to angreal and sa'angreal as well, perhaps it is the reason AS can't make them anymore.  I know Elayne hasn't had time lately but our little Power-engineer hasn't figured out how to make one yet and alot of her copies of ter'angreal have small faults. Perhaps these ter'angreal faults and her inability to make angreal as of yet is because they are supposed to be made with saidin or a combination of saidin and saidar):<br /><br />Now I think I'm done <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/blush.gif" border="0" />.  Thank you for sitting here and reading  all of this</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well I am truly disappointed.  Here I thought you were going to tell me that severing could get Healed by doing the horizontal mambo.  And what you meant was gender-based Healing.  *sigh*  All in all though, I'm not exactly sure if you can the difference between both halves of a power that is, for lack of a better term, &quot;magic&quot; on a scientific known of our day.  Yes, it is apparant that the opposite sex Heals severing better.  And although your theory does seem to have some merit, I'm not entirely convinced yet.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-03 00:59:36
subject: How much Taint is there?
body:
<p>As far as the theories about &quot;how much&quot; Taint was released, I have to disagree whole-heartedly that there was a finite amount released and that Rand just got rid of the rest of it during the cleansing.  That would imply that there was a finite amount of the Power available.  Let me explain.<br /><br />People who use the Power &quot;channel&quot; it.  &quot;Channel,&quot; instead of &quot;use&quot;.  The Power originates in the forces of Nature (&quot;Water&quot;, &quot;Air&quot;, &quot;Fire&quot;, &quot;Earth&quot;, &quot;Spirit&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />.  These primal forces are in constant motion, constantly fulfilling the natural cycle of things (the Fire destroys a forest, Water puts out the fire and brings life back to the forest, etc.).  Channelers aren't using up the Power, like &quot;Here, I wove Fire to blow up that Trolloc over there, and now that flow is used and gone and there is that much less Fire to channel later.&quot;  A Channeler merely uses his or her force of will and acts as a dam of sorts to redirect those flows for a time.  Its like if a dam redirects a river and uses its force for making electricity, the river is not gone nor is it used up; rather the water turned the turbines and continued on its way, returning to being an untapped river.  The Power is the same way.  Once the channeler has achieved his or her goal and releases the flows, they return to being untapped primal forces.<br /><br />Now men and women use a different form of the same powers.  The Taint simply exists on the male half of the Source as a part of it, even of only on the surface.  The primal forces are the same, but when a man pulls on the part of the source, the Taint comes with it.  Once the channeler is done, the primal forces return, with the Taint still on it.  It would be like if you had a bucket of water with a slick of oil on it.  You could pour it through one of those kids bath tub toys with the gears that turn when water flows over it into another bucket.  The gears have been turned and the water is now back to its original, untapped form, and the oil is still there.<br /><br />I know that this has been a bit of a rambling theory...hopefull this makes sense.  Let me know what you think.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> I agree whole-heartedly! I think that you have a well thought-out theory. I personally never thought of it that particular way, but it makes sense.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-03 01:21:56
subject: Cadsuane Compelled Rand
body:
<p>This may be a long shot, but I believe that Cadsuane used Compulsion, or some form of Compulsion, against Rand.<br /><br />First, remember that Rand learned exactly what balefire does in The Shadow Rising, when he used it against the Darkhounds.  After that, he pretty much only used it when he really needed it, such as against the Forsaken.  However, when he did need it, he showed no hesitation, and did not dwell upon his choice of weapons.  He just fired.<br /><br />I think it was in tCoS when Rand used a bolt of balefire against Mashadar's fog somewhere in Cairhein.  Cadsuane then slapped him, and said something like: &quot;You'll not do that again.  Not balefire!  Not ever!&quot;  She could have just been annoyed that he used such a dreadful weapon, but I believe this was more calculated.<br /><br />Recall, when he went to face Sammael, he was about to blast him with balefire.  Then he felt the slap again and heard the words, and thus hesitated, which allowed Sammael to escape to Shadar Logoth.  Now, Rand DID use balefire in Shadar Logoth, which leads me to believe that Cadsuane's Compulsion is a weak version, something like Verin's, and Rand was able to overcome it.  This may mean her Compulsion is now gone, or maybe Rand will have to fight it every time he needs to use balefire, which would be bad.  I think we will see this sort of thing from Cadsuane again in the future, maybe involved in the lesson she will teach Rand and the Asha'Man.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Interesting. I'll give it that. I think it's a possibility. Not a likelyhood, but a possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-04 16:25:54
subject: Moridin the Traitor
body:
<p>Do we know why the Forsaken first help Rand then try to kill him? Why did Moridin &quot;help&quot; Rand in Shadar Logoth? And why doesn't the Dark One kill Lanfear when she helps Rand like he killed so many other Forsaken (or so we have heard). There must be a reason! The Dark One displays knowledge that was thought secret when we hear him speaking. How does he know all those things and why didn't he know about Lanfear helping Rand but he knew about Asmo?<br /><br />I think the answer is the Nae'blis is a traitor! I found this quote at the end of tPod,  <i>&quot;it's vary hard to lose a game when you played both sides of the board&quot;</i>.  It's a <i>sha'rah</i> game he is playing alone but right before that he refers to Rand as the Fisher: <i>&quot;... the fisher stood waiting, but in the greater game, al'Thor moved already to his wishes&quot;</i>. Now we need to know how Ishy wasn't killed by the DO for being a traitor. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Um...in a word, no.  First of all, Asmo did betray the Dark One, Lanfear didn't.  Her helping him learn actually enabled letting the &quot;Lord of Chaos rule&quot; in later books.  Also, how would Moridin being a traitor prevent the Dark One from seeing treason?  That logic just doesn't make sense.  Finally, Moridin is &quot;playing both sides&quot; in that he is obviously moving the forces of Dark, yet, as he says, since &quot;al'Thor moved already to his wishes&quot;, Moridin also believes he is positioning the forces of Light to where they will be most vulnerable.  Since he is manipulating both sides of the &quot;board&quot;, he can set up the forces of Light to be most vulnerable so that he can perform the most gratifying way to win <i>sha'rah</i>:  utter annihilation.  Sorry, nobody is more loyal to the Dark One than Ishy.<br /><br /><b>An Aside:</b>  The scene when Moridin is playing <i>sha'rah</i> is <b>not</b> found at the end of tPoD, but rather on pages 42-44 (hardcover).<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-04 23:39:01
subject: On the actual Wheel of Time and the theory of the wheel's end
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<p>Quote from the Eye of the World, page 799 ( in the index ) under Wheel of Time:<br /><br />&quot;Time is a wheel with seven spokes, each spoke an age.  As the Wheel turns, the Ages come and go, each leaving memories that fade to legend, then to myth, and are forgotten by the time that Age comes again.  The Pattern of an Age is slightly different each time an Age comes, and each time it us subject to greater change, but each time it is the same Age&quot;<br /><br />This is in fact proof that the Wheel CAN end.  This third age is different from all preceding third ages, it is the most different from the actual Pattern of the third age yet.  That means that Rand can and will do things never done before in the history of the Wheel of Time, including the possible destruction of the Dark One permanently, making linear time, and otherwise making irrelevant all evidence garnered from previous turnings of the wheel.  People mark the fourth age quote as proof that the Wheel will remain a Wheel, however the quote doesn't state WHICH fourth age it is.  It could have been a fourth age long ago.<br /><br />An interesting corollary of this is that the amount of time already passed is in fact NOT infinite in wotworld, otherwise the wheel would have had no effect (this being the infinitieth turning of the wheel = infinite variation from the pattern = we're already in linear time).  Most don't care about that, but I've seen theories that hinge on an infinite wheel.  Another corollary is that near-linear time is inevitable unless time ends (the DO is freed or the Creator is balefired or something), because as the number of turnings of the wheel approaches infinity so does the variation from the pattern.<br /><br />To conclude:<br /><br />1) Time may or may not become linear at the end of the books, there is no &quot;proof&quot; to debunk the theory.<br /><br />2) There is a measurable amount of time since the moment of creation (doesn't really have any relevance to the book, but it's interesting).<br /><br />3) Given infinite time, infinite variation will occur from the Pattern, thus the pattern will no longer hold sway over wotworld and therefore time WILL become linear...some day.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Well, as you said in your first conclusion, there is no proof that can debunk this theory.  There really isn't any proof to prove this theory.  <br /><br />Plus, we know that the Pattern weaves people into it, and allows for some minor changes, but disallows some big ones.  Perhaps a switch from circular to linear is a big change.  Wouldn't the pattern unravel if the switch to linear time was made?<br /><br />There's something I'm missing, but you are too.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-05 00:25:03
subject: Dragons are out there.
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<p>There are the fossils, in Tarabon, I believe.  Unknown animals, perhaps dragons?  And one thing that just might keep them away from the rest of the world is the Waste, after all, it's not a place most things can survive, and i'm willing to bet that dragons aren't suited to living on little amounts of game, which is what they would probably find in the waste.  -OR-  They could be creatures of a mirror world, like the grolm were before.  After all, until the Seanchan had come back, very few people, none that were living (forsaken not included), until Rand and them, had seen them.  This would probably be the same for dragons.  After all, very few people are able to use the portal stones, or ever were.  Perhaps he is going to be the person to introduce the dragon to Randland, just like the Seanchan did with the grolm.  After all, who knows what strange things there could be in the mirror worlds, possibilities are endless, at least one thing has to look somewhat like the dragon on Rand's banner, if you think about it.  After all, the dragon, once introduced, if fearful enough to make a man that did what Lews Therin did, they would probably become the dominant species.  In fact, -they- might be what is thought of as Rand's blood. If it is going to spill on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, what better to be the dragon's blood than the dragons themself?<br /><br />Yes, I know that it is a bit short at the moment, but I'm working on looking through my limited rescources for more information.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Well, one thing, just reading this made me breathless.  Use periods.  Your. Sentences. Run. On.<br /><br />But aside from that, the fact that the musuem-ish place in Tarabon has fossils doesn't mean they are dragons.  I always assumed they were someting along the lines of dinosaurs or some such.<br /><br />As for the idea of bringing dragons from the mirror worlds wouldn't work anyway.  Your thinking is skewed.<br /><br />The mirror worlds are worlds that could have been, had a choice back in the past been made differently.  Seeing the grolm in the mirror world had no effect in the real world.  It just existed in that mirror world due to one choice made differently in that past.  The grolms did not come from the mirror worlds, which botches this whole theory right there.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-05 00:45:11
subject: Aludra's Riddle
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<p>I don't know if this has already been covered, but i think i've figured out Aludra's riddle.  In WH she tells Mat to figure out why she needs a bellfounder.  In the middle ages, the only people who were capable of making early cannons were bellfounders, because they were the only ones who had the equipment to work such large amounts of metal (i learned this on the Discovery Channel).  I think Aludra already knows how to use her talents against the Seanchan but needs Mat's help to do it.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Boy, this borders along the lines of &quot;Mat is going to create gunpowder.&quot;<br /><br />But yes, the bellfournder, those who make bells, would indeed be able to create something along the lines of cannons.  Well done and a pat on the back.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-05 07:28:42
subject: Taim and Demandred: Clearing up the confusion
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<p>As Sherlock Holmes says, when all other options have been discovered to be impossible, the only remaining solution, however improbable, must be true.  Past theorizers have reached two strong conclusions:<br /><br />1) Taim several times behaves just as Demandred would if the two were one and the same (anger at being 2nd in charge, the &quot;so-called Aiel&quot; comment, among others), therefore Taim must be Demandred.<br /><br />2) In Winter's Heart, Demandred does not recognize one of the earliest Ashaman recruits as Taim surely would, therefore Demandred is not Taim.<br /><br />Adherents of these two apparently diametrically opposed conclusions have spent a great deal of time and effort explaining why their position on the Taim/Demandred debate is valid and that of their opponents invalid.  My belief is that the participants in this debate, on either side, are both wrong and right.  As with so much in Jordan's writing in the Wheel of Time series, a duality is involved here, one which does not completely invalidate either of the two camp's positions.<br /><br />Demandred is Taim (at times), and Taim is Taim as well.  Remember that Demandred is notorious for working through proxies, and what better proxy than one who looks similar to him, and is likely close to him in power as well.  The key here is understanding that because Demandred may disguise himself to look like Taim at times, this does not necessarily mean that Taim no longer lives.  Once one make the leap to this dualistic view of the situation, much of the confusion generated by the either Taim is Demandred or not debate falls by the wayside.<br /><br />1) Demandred likely disguises himself as Taim mainly to deal with Rand, which led to the comment that Demandred and Aginor (as Dashiva) were keeping an eye on Rand at the meeting of the Forsaken to discuss how to deal with Rand's plans to cleanse Saidan.<br /><br />2) Because Demandred likely deals with little of the day-to-day running of the Black Tower, this explains why he did not recognize the Ashaman Flinn at the end of Winter's Heart.<br /><br />3) This also explains why Flinn did not recognize Demandred, who was not disguised as Taim for the battle to stop Rand's attempt to cleanse Saidan at the end of Winter's Heart.<br /><br />4) Now we see why Torval and Rochaid and crew can say that they were told to stop Rand at Far Madding by both Taim and Demandred.  Whether or not they knew that Demandred sometimes disguised himself as Taim, their task was important enough that both of these leaders of the dark forces, as well as Moridin, felt the need to give them &quot;encouragement.&quot;<br /><br />Duality, or the cooperation (whether forced or voluntary) between two individuals to achieve what they could not achieve alone is a major theme in WOT.  It is not the only theme, of course, as Rand, Mat and Perrin is a tertiality (and the linking of 13 Aes Sedai which is sometimes referred to is another thing entirely), but Jordan uses it often enough for it to play a major part in the action of WOT.  Jordan, however, is too good a writer to use a theme like duality in the same way every time.  In the case of Isam/Luc, the two individuals have become one in some strange way, while something similar seems to have occurred with Fain/Mordeth.  Taim/Demandred is a different story.  Once Taim's support of the dark side was ensured (either voluntarily or through the use of threats or a 13-channeler linkage), it was more profitable for the dark side to keep him in place in the Black Tower, while allowing Demandred to assume his identity when necessary.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> It's new.<br /><br />It's different.<br /><br />It's the same old argument. Next, please.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-05 07:39:46
subject: Why Perrin could possibly be Verin.
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<p>Remember back to <i>The Great Hunt</i>, when Perrin and Verin walked together (notice the &quot;in&quot; at the end of their names...I think RJ is trying to say something...) for some time in the Field of Raserei.  There they spoke of life on Middle Earth, and about the Earthsea.   Perrin looked at Verin under the Elcrys tree and his golden eyes met her brown ones.  Inside one eye, Perrin saw a hammer, and in the other he saw an axe...and behind both...a wolf!  And when Verin looked at Perrin, she saw a horse.  And on the horse was an intelligent man, with blonde hair, riding it to Never Never land.  Both of them then looked at each other and understood.  So, don't you think that maybe something is going on?  Perrin is Verin?</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> Oh. My. God.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Woohoo!  I got mentioned in a WoT theory, and i have no connection to the books <i>whatsoever</i>!  Woohoo!<br /><br />PS I'm <b>still</b> mad about the Rand/Aginor theory.  Not even someone as dumb as you could be so dumb.<br /><br />PPS Ignore the redundancy.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> LMAO!  Good work there shaza.  Almost as good as your Rand=Aginor theory, but not quite.  BTW, your dog is <b>still</b> ugly.  *low fives*<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-05 07:48:19
subject: Bela is Phar Lap Reborn.
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<p>There are many things that suggest that TWoT is set on our Earth, either far in the future or past. We all know that the heroes are reborn every age. I don't know much about horses, but most people would agree that Phar Lap is the hero horse type animal of our age, so Bela would most likely be Phar Lap reborn, or vice versa.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> Brilliant connection.<br /><br />No, really.<br /><br />Bela is <i>obviously</i> Phar Lap.<br /><br />Now we can sit back and wonder if anyone outside of Australia will understand this.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-08 16:30:46
subject: What an Eye Might Mean, What Light May Fade Away
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<p>Well let's start off with something that is considered common knowledge, Matrim Cauthon is an analogy to Odin. So people see him as losing an eye later on to match that analog. Well I think Mat has reversed that part of it.<br /><br />   I've heard people talk about Odin hanging from the tree of the world (Yggdrasil) and losing an eye to gain knowledge. Well when Mat hung from Avendesorra he gained knowledge, that of hundreds of dead soldiers and officers. This could be seen as an extra eye into the ways of war.<br /><br />   People have talked about the vision of him balancing two Aes Sedai on a scale and that it had some important consequences to come. I think that was one of Egwene's visions but I forget. Anyway I think that has already come to pass. It happened in book 9. <br /><br />   Recall the two Aes Sedai that had been with the Tar Valon sect that got left in Ebou Dar? Well when Mat carefully questioned one about the note, she jumped at an inaccurate detail. So this left him feeling obligated to check with the other one. When he talked to her he realized that she was the one who'd helped him out.<br /><br />   Now he had to way trying to save one or both. If he saved only one then he had to decide which one. The fact that he decided to save both of them changed the course of his entire life. If he hadn't done that, or if he had only taken the one at the inn the end to book 9 would have been very different. He'd have been more likely to get out of Ebou Dar without getting saddled with Tuon. Thus weighing two Aes Sedai has had a consequence that was very important. If the two of them get along good enough then perhaps they can bring peace to the mainland and Seanchan.<br /><br />   Now there's the matter of half the light of the world to save the world. Well Tuon is the Daughter of the Nine Moons, so she is a representation of half of the light source for the earth. Also she is most likely to become one of the two people that Mat cares most about. The other is Olver, who is the closest he's going to have to a son for a long while yet.<br /><br />   Now eventually I think we can all safely say that Mat will be part of the expedition to save Moiraine. If he does he might have to make a sacrifice to do it. One might be his knowledge of other lives. The other might be his wife. He may have to give up one to save Moiraine and one to save Olver (who has in my mind 75% odds of going along). If so then he'd be saving Moiraine by either putting his 'eye' on a scale, or giving up half the light of the world.<br /><br />   Now we already know that Rand will the need the help of a woman 'long since dead' in order to win. That is Moiraine that Min was thinking of. I don't recall all of the thought from LoC (or aCoS) but she did mention that woman. So Mat saving Moiraine is asking to save the world. That's why I think it's more likely that he'll have to give up Tuon (either her life, or leave her among the Eelfinn). But he might also have to choose between his military knowledge and Olver. Thus his eye of dead men's tales is put upon a scale.<br /><br />   There are two reasons that the Band of the Red Hand sticks with Mat. One is his uncanny luck; the other is his military genius. If he loses either then he might end up losing his winning streak record in combat. If that happens the band might ditch him.<br /><br />   If they desert Mat where are they most likely to go? That's right Andor, to help the Lady Elayne. This would coincide with Min's viewing concerning Elayne and a bloody severed hand that isn't hers (Elayne's). They might be ordered by Elayne (who doesn't want to seem like she's siding with the Dragonsworn) to go to Rand Al'Thor. That would coincide with the viewing that Min hand concerning Rand and a severed hand.<br /><br />   If Mat was to leave the love of his life with the Eelfinn, all so he could save a woman that irritates the hell out of him that would shame him the rest of his days. Even with out getting Seanchan proverbs involved he'd be downcast in the eyes. Do you seriously think he could ever look his sisters or father in the eyes again? I don't. That could be what Egwene's vision of Mat with a bloody face means, wearing the shame of choosing the lesser evil (and dicing with the dark one would be a good analogy to that).<br /><br />   All of it does fit into a pattern even if I am wrong, and none of it requires Mat to get an eye patch.</p><p><b>Burr says:</b> Elayne could certainly use the Band's help, though I doubt they would leave Mat so easily.  If they were defeated, they would probably think it was a fluke.  But if he were defeated, maybe Mat would sever the Hand himself.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-08 18:13:35
subject: Asmodean Not Balefired
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<p>The Quick Poll for the day (7-5-01) got me thinking.  The question was &quot;Was Asmo killed by Balefire?&quot;  That got me thinking about the nature of Balefire.<br /><br />Balefire removes a person or object from the pattern before the present moment. The more powerful the bolt, the further back on the pattern the person/object is removed.<br /><br />There are several arguments one could follow on How Asmo was killed, but I don't think Balefire was it. The main reason for this is that, given the nature of Balefire and it's effect, Rand probably would not recall a good amount of what Asmo taught him while Asmo was in custody.<br /><br />No body was found. How could this be??<br /><br />There are other, more effective ways to dispose of a human body, given the power a channeler has, than Balefire. To use Balefire risks changes to the pattern that we in this epoch call a Paradox (more on that in a moment). To destroy the evidence of a murder, a channeler has merely to strike the body with sufficiently powerful weaves of fire to reduce the corpse to ash. Then flows of air can wisk away the stench of burned flesh and also remove the ashes.<br /><br />Why couldn't Balefire have been used? I didn't say it couldn't have been used. Of course it could. I merely stated that, in my humble opinion, it was not. Here's why...<br /><br />Balefire removes a person or object from the pattern (time) before that person/object was in in existance. If that thing didn't exist, then surely it could not have been destroyed. Conversely, if it wasn't destroyed, then it still exists.<br /><br />Recall, when Rand fired Rahvin. Mat, Perrin, and the others had been killed by Rahvin's handywork in Caemlyn. After Rahvin was removed from the pattern, to the point that he didn't kill the others, they were alive.<br /><br />Now, if I was a Forsaken, desperate enough to use Balefire to kill Asmo, then why use only enough to remove him seconds or minutes before? Why not nullify the effect that his treachery has caused in his teaching Rand methods and techniques used in the AoL, thereby weakening an established enemy? <br /><br />Rand did not lose the teaching of Asmo, therefore, Asmo was killed by means other than Balefire and subsequent removal from the pattern. Besides, Asmo is now active as either Aran'gar or Osan'gar. If Balefire had been utilized, then he would have been beyond the Dark One's reach.<br /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Unfortunately, I have to disagree.  As to whether Asmo was killed by Balefire or not is open to debate.  However, your reason as to why the theory should be debunked doesn't hold water.  What you are implying is that weeks of training be removed from the Pattern.  We simply don't have an individual that is strong enough to do that.  Recall that Rand, the most powerful channeller alive, only burned back about a half hour or so from the Pattern when he fried Rahvin.  Conversely, when Moiraine toasted Be'lal she only took a second or two off the Pattern.  The fact that Rand <i>could</i> remove so much of a thread (i.e. 30 minutes or so) is amazing.  That is a tremendous amount of thread to burn.  Weeks would be nigh impossible.  Plus, Osan'gar is Dashiva is Aginor, as has been proved by Winter's Heart.  Aran'gar is Halima is Balthamel, as proved by his lecherous ways.  So, no, Asmo isn't alive and kicking as a 'gar.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-08 21:13:23
subject: DEMMMMMAZRIM TAIM
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<p>&quot; Now if I were Sammael...&quot;  In Lord of Chaos Taim says, &quot;As for Illian, I doubt it would be as simple as disposing of a pair of Aes Sedai. I keep thinking what I would do in Sammael's place. I would have Illian warded in boxes, so I'd know if a man even thought of channeling, I'd know right where he was and I would burn even the ground to ash before he had time to take a breath.&quot;  (LOC 56<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> <br />Taim knows Sammaels battle tactics and places himself in Sammaels spot. How does he know how Sammael thinks and why whould he place himself in Sammy's spot? <br /><br />&quot; You Two&quot; In Winters Heart  Aran'gar says, &quot;You were responsible for watching him Osan'gar,&quot; she went on, her voice caressing every syllable.  &quot;You and Demandred.&quot; (WH 314) Dashiva is responsible for watching him first hand being his Asha'man guard, Demandred is in watching him thru controling the Asha'men.<br /><br />&quot;Surprise!&quot; turn out at Dumai's Wells (LOC 972) never explains how he knows where to find him. At the Forsaken meeting they think that Demandred and Mesaana had a hand in his kidnapping. Some have suggested that Taim was told by Mesaana. We know that Taim was not told by Mesaana because she still thinks that Rand is on his way to the Tower (Cos 41) Mesaana, Semirhage, Graendal and Demandred are the only ones who know of Mesaana's plan to capture Rand. Therefore Demandred would know exactly where to find Rand.  <br /><br />&quot;Mystery Man&quot; Bashere has trouble recognizing Taim, which Taim brushes off by explaining he shaved. (LoC 92)  He claims he shaved because it's hot.  Why would he pretend he doesn't know the &quot;trick of concentrating&quot; to ignore the heat?   We know he does from (LoC 91&amp; 763).  Or perhaps a beard would not work because if you touched your face it would go thru the weave (LOC 92) We know that it is much easier to make small alterations in apperance than large from Elayne and Nyneave (while in Ebou Dar). Demandred already looks much like Taim and with a few changes enough that the weave is easy to mask and maintain it would be rather simple to become Taim. <br /><br />&quot;Testing...&quot; How did Taim learn the test? It is very unlikly that Taim figured it out on his own it would require another channeler to test it on. Why is he suprised that Rand doesn't know it? The Forsaken refer to rand as Lews Therin and are continually suprised that he doesnt know all that he used to know. When Rand and Asmodean finished fighting in Shadow Rising Lanfear asks how much is him and how much the shepherd.<br /><br />&quot;You're just Jealous!&quot; Is upset at being the &quot;second Asha'man&quot; (LOC 762) the story of Demandred's life is almost or second to LTT, this angers him so much that he shakes visibly with rage.  &quot;Taim walked to the block stiffly, and Rand bent to pin the silver sword to the tall collar of his coat...Taim's face had as much expression as the stone beneath Rand's boots...  'I suppose I was the first Asha'man, but Mazrim Taim is the second.'  Taim's face made stone look soft; what was wrong with the man? [afterward]  Taim motioned toward the farmhouse.  He was holding the bag of sword pins so tightly it was a wonder none of them stabbed him through the cloth.  'If my Lord Dragon has time for a cup of wine.' [inside]  Taim tossed the bag onto the tray and emptied a mug straight away.  Rand finally asks, 'What has gotten into you?  You've had a burr in your breeches ever since I put those badges on you.  Is it something to do with them?  If so, I don't understand.  Those men will think more of theirs for seeing you recieve yours from the Dragon Reborn.  For that matter, they'll think more of you for it.  Maybe you won't have to keep discipline by clubbing men over the head.  Well, what have you to say?'  The most remarkable transformation came over the man.  Taim shook visibly --with rage (see Dashiva's similar reaction later in PoD 46<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" />, Rand would have said, not fear--but when the shaking stopped, he was his old self again.  (LoC 763-765)he never wears the pins after this day In the begining od LOC we have Ltt saying&quot;  Sammael and Demandred hated me, whatever honors I gave them. The more honors, the worse the hate, until they sold their souls and went over. Demandred especially.&quot; <br /><br />&quot;So called Aiel&quot; Forsaken terminology so called Aiel comment (LOC 297) Taim uses the exact same terminology that the rest of the Forsaken do we have Lanfear's so called Aes Sedai comment in TDR and Aginor's so called Aes Sedai comment in Winters heart page 645. Moridin uses this exact same phrase in [ACOS: 20, Patterns Within Patterns, 356]. Some have suggested if Taim had read this somewhere then he would have reason to say this . We know that there is no recorded history of this anywhere.The Tower library has been burnt twice, so any thing that may have been recorded- and i doubt that there would have been anything in the first place- would have been burnt. FY993 Fire in the Tower Library - attributed to arson. The only other explaination of this is Taim knows the Old Tongue and is questioning whether the Aiel are truely dedicated. Even if this is the case Taim know a lot of Old Tongue for just a commoner. <br /><br />&quot;Renegade Aiel.&quot; Rands renegade Aiel (LOC 977) falls in line with the previous comment with the exception that this one is a lot clearer. The dictionary defines renegade as a deserter from one faith, cause or religion for a hostile one . This is a closely held secret amoung even the Aiel . Taims word choice is extremely obvious here this is something that he knows personally. How would Taim know that? <br /><br />&quot;I should have killed him long ago&quot; refering to Taim. ( LOC 759)How long ago? Is it a week which I whould not consider long ago or 3000 years which would comply with.  &quot;I should have killed him long ago, Lews Therin panted.  I should have...should have....There was a stretching toward the source.&quot;  Later Lews Therin continues, &quot;I will kill him&quot; ... &quot;I will kill him, and then them.  They must serve him.  It is plain; they must serve him...  Oh, light, I killed them all.  All that I loved.  If I kill him, it will be well, though.  I can make it up, if I kill him finally.  No, nothing can make up, but I must kill him anyway.  Kill them all.  I must. I must.&quot;  ( LOC 765)   Finally meaning that he has wished to do this for a long long time. Besides how would killing taim make up for anything that Lews Therin did?<br /><br />&quot; Sealed with a kiss&quot;   The seal (loc 9<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> Lame excuse for having a seal. Besides why would Demandred care where the seals are; he knows that whereever they are they will break. The use of this to gain the trust of Rand whould be a good enough reason to give it to him.<br /><br />&quot;They're after me Lucky Charms&quot;  She thinks &quot;he was right about one thing Lews Therin made his own luck as a mint makes coin.&quot;(LoC 69).  Later, when Taim tests the first guy he picks Damer for the talent, and discovers that Damer can, indeed, learn to channel...'the hawk-nosed man muttered with a glance at Rand. &quot;You seem to have LUCK enough for ten men.&quot;' (LoC, hard, p 89). <br /><br />&quot;Say Cheese&quot; Mesaana says that that was as close to a smile as she had ever seen Demandred.  In LOC Rand says that that was as close to a smile as he had ever seen Taim.<br /><br />&quot;Sneaky eh!&quot; Demandred is familiar with Caemlyn. We see Demandred spying on Elayne in LOC page 220  Demandred moved out from behind the columns of the Grand Hall and looked from the two thrones to where the girl had vanished. Elayne Trakand, unless he missed his guess wildly, and using a minor ter'angreal by the faint look of her, one made for training begining students. He would have given much to know what was in her head , but her words and expression had been plain enough. She did not like what al'Thor was doing here, not in the least, and meant to do something about it. A determined young woman, he suspected. In any case , another thread in the tangle yanked, however feeble the pull turned out to be.<br /><br />&quot;Let the Lord of Chaos rule,&quot; he told the thrones --though he still wished he knew why it had to be so--and opened a gateway to leave Tel'aran'rhiod. Demandred is apparently familiar enough with the Palace in Caemlyn to know the term &quot;Grand Hall&quot;. We're reminded again that he will &quot;let the Lord of Chaos rule&quot;, and that it chafes his butt to do it.  Third he exits Tel'aran'rhiod into the palace.  Obviously a risky move unless he's in disguise.  He must be somebody, who comes to Caemlyn regularly, and somebody who can channel his way into the palace without inviting immediate destruction upon himself.  We know that MT has been visiting and a few chapters later Rand tells MT that his visits to the city would have to stop because Alanna and Verin have shown up. <br /><br />&quot; Your first&quot; In Lews Therin's rants he says yes lets kill Sammael but Demandred first. Why would he suggest this if he doesn't know where Demandred is?<br /> The prophesy of the man in the boat with a dagger to Rands throat and the serpents in the bosom. In all the books we see the snake logo at the begining of chapters that include the Forsaken.  Some may suggest that the serpent in the bosom is Aginor but note that serpents is plural. Also this prophesy is given before Aginor joins the tower.<br /><br />&quot;Friends&quot; &quot;Events to the south had Demandred's mark all over them. Demandred always like using proxies. 'Tell him to be careful. I won't have him or his friends interfering in my plans.'...'So long as they steer clear of me, his lackeys can carve out what he wants, but they will steer clear or he will answer for it.'&quot;(LOC 135)  Who would Demandred's friends be (the asha'men)? Another thing this is refering to south of Arad Doman and south of that is everything with the exceptions of Tar Valon and the Borderlands (all though if you are at the northern most point of Arad Doman some of Saldea is south of you).<br /> <br />Taim's lie? <br />&quot; I have been in the Blight; I have killed trollocs before, and mryddraal.&quot; (LOC 106)<br /><br />&quot;I sent him away, Taim said.&quot;What good are swords? I can barely avoid stabbing myself, and I've never felt the lack.  They have the power, now.&quot;(LOC 294)<br /><br /> What was he fighting them with, his teeth?  If he was fighting them with the one power the Aes Sedai  would have figured him out long ago and he would have had Aes Sedai on him like a pack of wolves. Is this Demandred using Taim's memories but his know how?<br /><br />&quot;Rants &amp; Raves!&quot; LTT raves (loc 90 ) I admit LTT raves about all channelers but it is quite suprising how many are about Taim.<br />Intro<br />&quot;Kill him!  Kill him now!  Kill him!&quot; ... (Taim submits and) &quot;Kill him!  Must kill him!&quot;  (LoC, 95)<br /><br />&quot;Kill him! Kill them all!&quot; LTT shrieked.  (LoC, 102)<br /><br />At the farm<br /><br />&quot;Don't trust!&quot; ... &quot;Never Trust! Trust is death!&quot;  (LoC, 10<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />&quot;Don't trust him,&quot; LTT groaned.  &quot;Don't trust.  Trust is death.  Kill him.  Kill them all.  Oh, to die and be done, done with it all, sleep without dreams, dreams of Ilyena, forgive me, Ilyena, no forgiveness, only death, deserve to die....&quot;  (LoC, 112)<br /><br />&quot;Kill him&quot;  LTT muttered.  &quot;Kill him now!&quot;  LTT violently seizes the source before Rand lets go.  &quot;Kill him!  Kill him!&quot;  (LoC, 115)<br /><br />Grey Man incident<br /><br />&quot;I must kill him,&quot; LTT muttered.  LTT again seizes the source as Rand struggles.  &quot;Why?&quot;  Rand asks.  &quot;Why do you want to kill him?&quot;  (LoC, 567)  The struggle lasted only moments, but his knees felt weak.  Lews Therin had almost taken over, almost taken over saidin at least. ...  Rand tried to tell himself he had not been avoiding the school because he was jealous, but he always felt a prickle of something around Taim...  Why did Lews Therin want the man dead?&quot;  (LoC, 56<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />At the farm again<br /><br />&quot;I should have killed him long ago&quot;  LTT panted.  &quot;I should have killed him long ago.  I should have...should have.... There was a stretching toward the source.  (LOC 759) <br /><br />&quot;I will kill him&quot;  LTT shouts &amp; fumbles for saidin ... &quot;I will kill him, and then them.  They must serve him.  It is plain; they must serve him...  Oh, light, I killed them all.  All that I loved.  If I kill him, it will be well, though.  I can make it up, if I kill him finally.  No, nothing can make up, but I must kill him anyway.  Kill them all.  I must. I must.&quot;  ( LoC 765) <br /><br />Lews Therin sees and knows what Rand refuses to.  He knows that Taim is turning the Aha'men against him.  The Asha'men seem to be the other ones usually referred to from the quotes above.  Lews Therin also reaches for the source only with Taim and Dashiva it seems.  <br />When Dashiva channels near Rand,  &quot;Lews therin did not waste breath--if a disembodied voice had breath--on mutters about killing; he lurched for the source snarling wordlessly, tried to claw the power away from Rand.&quot;  (PoD, 467HB)  Lews Therin again knew what we didn't. <br /><br />I found a few other quotes scattered throughout LoC but most were one-liners about women etc....<br /><br />&quot;Aha! Trickery!!&quot;  Sammael and Lanfear. Recall that Rand was being directed toward a confrontation with Sammael long before CoS.  Also recall Lanfear stating that Rand was being led to believe Sammael was behind many attacks against Rand.  Thirdly, Remember in LoC that Sammael believes Rand accepts an offer of truce, (which he says to Graendal) yet there is still an attack against Rand by a gray man, where Taim coincidentally shows up to save the day and kill the gray man before Rand can beat some information out of him. This next part I think is hilarious.<br /><br />&quot;Taim strolled in completely at ease...  That peculiar almost-smile quirked his lips, s he glanced at the dead Gray Man.<br /><br />&quot;Nasty things, the Soulless.&quot;  Anybody else would have shivered; not Taim.  &quot;I came to your balcony by gateway because I thought you would want to hear the news right right away.&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Somebody who learns too fast?&quot;  Rand broke in, and Taim flashed that half-smile again.<br /><br />&quot;No, not one of the Forsaken in disguise...&quot;  <br /> <br />Demandred sent the gray man to make him believe Sammael did it. <br /><br />&quot;The M'hael made me do it!&quot; Uses Compulsion on Bashere's servents (loc 93)How did he know Compulsion of that strength? We see Compulsion amoung a few wilders but never of that ability. Verin complains about her weave that is LIKE Compulsion and how it will lead them to make the choice she wants them to but not force them. The only other case of Compulsion we know of is Liandrin's and hers is a &quot; mere shadow of what Moghedian could do&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Who are you?&quot; not recognising Flinn (Winter's Heart, 645). When I read this if it did anything it was to convince me even more Taim is Demandred. We read as Rand's group arrives in Shadar Logoth we are told that the Asha'man were wearing plain dark coats and many had warders cloaks. When Demandred comes through the trees he sees up ahead and to the right of him partially hidden by trees a man with grey hair surrounded by 2 women. It only takes him a moment to identify him as Asha'man. Wearing a warders cloak? The only thing he didn't do was say his name.  Taim calls Fedwin Morr &quot;this one&quot; in POD and he knew him just as well as he did Flinn. Demandred says that he was a great general but generals never had to fight along side the men they commanded (the Asha'man)<br /><br />&quot;I just blundered into him&quot; Graendal's blunder in Winters Heart at the Forsaken meeting  (page 317). Graendal yells &quot;And you've just been hoping to blunder into him! she screamed at Demandred. Hoping someone would find him for you! Fool! Fool!&quot;(WH 31<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> Demandred thought that she had been a touch flamboyant He would wager the announcement had been no suprise to her.  It seemed she bore watching. She has planned this and besides that Taim hasn't seen Rand since the end of POD and could very well be looking for him along with everyone else.             <br /><br />&quot;Cool Clothes!&quot;  The dragons on Taim's sleeves are an unatural blue.  Rand wonders what could make them shine so.  (LoC 759)  Asmodean seemed to have some kind of trick for this too, possibly Age of Legends fabric or some effect of channeling.  &quot;His high-collared red coat seemed shinier than silk satin....&quot;  (tSR, 671HB)  <br /><br />&quot;Shhh...I have a secret identity&quot;  Ok, last time Taim gave an order, it turns out to be a complete disaster, a little more is needed this time it seems.  Demandred says,  &quot;Al'Thor has been spotted in five cities, including that cursed place in the waste, and a dozen towns since those blind fools-- those idiots-- failed in Cairhien.&quot; Aginor frowned at idiots and blind fools as well he might.&quot;  (WH, 313)  He had hoped to have al'Thor dead or failing that captive before things came to a head with Rand on the loose with the Choedan Kal. We know that Demandred ordered them the first time from this the odd thing is no one ever mentions Demandred just Taim.  Taim instructed Gedwyn, Rochaid, Torval, and Kisman,  <br />&quot;Kill him,&quot; the M'Hael had ordered before sending them to Cairhien, but he had been as displeased that they were found out as that they had failed.  Far Madding was to be their last chance; he had made that as plain as polished brass.  Dashiva has simply vanished.&quot;  (WH, 441)<br /><br />Then it seems Taim decides a little more emphasis is needed,<br />&quot;Kill him,&quot;  Demandred had commanded later, but he had added that it would be better they died than let themselves be discovered again.  By anyone, even the M'Hael, as if he did not know of Taim's order.  (WH, 442)<br /><br /> &quot;His head is in the clouds, or maybe he's just a daydreamer &quot;When Rand suggests that Dashiva become his Asha'man guard Taim scrambles for excuses.  (aCoS, 84)  This alone isn't conclusive although everything he says about Dashiva being spacey is on the money.  But I can see that he doesn't want Aginor screwing things up.  Later after Aginor does screw stuff up, and blow his own cover, Taim is surprised and obviously angered at Aginor's stupidity.<br /><br />&quot; Call me Stallion&quot; Rand notes that Taim does not liking giving him any title or name (POD message from the M'hael) <br /><br />&quot; Hey where did he go?&quot; Dashiva's name is not on the traitors list (WH SNOW) Logain and CO are standing around talking when another Asha'man comes running up and says that the M'hael is back from Cairhein with a new list of deserters he says that there has never been seven at once. They go on to list the men that deserted  Gedwyn, Rochaid, Torval, Kisman, Flinn, Narishma, and Hopwil. Dashiva is left off the list. Dashiva is caught, so is Taim.<br /><br />&quot;You know..symmetry man!&quot; In the Wheel of Time everything has its balance we are reminded of this several times. Would this not also be true with the towers?  In (LOC, The Black Tower) Rand asks where the name the Black Tower came from and Taim tells him it is the Black tower to balance the White. We have two Forsaken in the White Tower that we know of: Mesaana and Aran'gar. Mesaana is in the main tower and Aran'gar is with Egwene.  To balance this we have Demandred in the main Black tower and Aginor with Rand.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> A very comprehensive look at the points supporting the Taimandred theory, of which I am a proponent.  Of course, this debate will rage until RJ makes it completely obvious if Taim is Demandred or not.  Nothing else I really can add. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-09 09:18:15
subject: Why there are no Missionaries.
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<p>I saw this question on the Message Board and my answer became a little long-winded, so I decided to turn it into a theory of sorts.<br /><br />In the world of the wheel of time, the Creator is uninvolved with humans.  He (assuming it's a He) may weave the pattern and control destiny, but He is not personally communicating with people. Not even Whitecloaks.  Major difference here from religion as most Christians know it.  In Christianity and several other religions, God is a being who communicates with His creation either through personal meditation (prayer), holy writings (like the Bible) or prophets.  God's interaction with humans is meant to give instruction, comfort, and joy.  The Creator does none of this. Why would anyone want to be devoted to a Creator who gives nothing in return?  Even the DO promises wealth and status.<br /><br />Therefore, missionaries (people who teach how to know God) are non-existant. There are no churches ANYWHERE in the world.  NEVER has a character prayed to the Creator, isn't that odd?  No wonder the Whitecloaks, who used to maybe almost be missionaries way long ago, are such hardened bastards now!  Their only reward is the sadistic feeling they get when they root out a Darkfriend or torture someone.  I guess it takes all types.<br /><br />The closest thing to religion in the world is called &quot;Walking in the Light&quot; which basically means being good.  And you can be pretty bad without actually being bad (see Mat Cauthon- who is awesome by the way). It seems like the line is finally drawn when you pledge your life and soul to the DO.<br /><br />Something I thought was interesting was that Aes Sedai do receive prophecies at times, which are sometimes recorded to become somewhat of a holy writing i.e. the Karaethon Cycle.  Is channeling a way of actually communicating with the Creator?  Any ideas?  The One Power does come from Him, doesn't it?  If it is then the majority of the population is pretty much less than human. Less than human=no potential for interaction w/God (like an animal).  Assuming you believe there is a God.  But there is a Creator in R-land so bear with me.<br /><br />Does the Creator even care about His creation?  He seems to just sit back and watch until &quot;oh no the DO is getting free I'd better get some poor innocent 16 year old boy to save the world for Me so I can wring my hands and fret until everything is better. and then watch some more.&quot;<br /><br />My point being: This Creator does not DESERVE missionaries.  (and yet the DO does...<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" /> hmm.....)</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> The problem I have with this is that Randland religion just isn't the same as today's earth, and so can't really be compared.  I think you are equating the One Power with the Holy Ghost, when the books do not say that the OP comes from the Creator, just that it turns the Wheel of Time.  It <i>could</i> come from the Creator, and that seems likely, but it's not a given.  Secondly, yes, the Dark One offers immortality and promises of grandeur; unfortunately, he is a liar and is bent on universal domination.  He has no intention on sharing it with a mere mortal.  Finally, in Randland they see the struggle between the Creator and the Dark One on a daily basis (Trolloc Border raids, the very Taint on <i>saidin</i>, etc.) whereas seeing the struggle between God and Satan, or whatever other non-Christian religions teach, is very much a matter of faith.  The circumstances are just too dissimilar to equate.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-09 14:34:41
subject: Another Ishmael/Moridin theory
body:
<p>Ever notice that the most off the wall ideas come up between the hours of 2am and 5am, especially at work.. hehe<br /><br />Anyways here it goes:<br /><br />Now, most everyone (including myself) is convinced that Moridin is Ishmael reborn, but I've had 2 odd ideas about this:<br /><br />1) Moridin is a alternate personality of Ishmael. (much like Lews Therin is of Rand)<br /><br />2) Ishmael is merely a name givin to the individual who will battle the champion of Light for ages to come and already past.<br /><br />I question Moridin because of his actions. We all know Ishmael was indeed a master weaver of plots (he set the stage for 3000 years for the Dark Ones arrival), but I do not believe that his insanity was staged, and we all know that Moridin is very calm and reserved, even when surprised he reacts calmly, very much unlike Ishy has in the past.  We also know that Ishmael is/was very arrogant, he probably did truly believe he was the Dark One, we see this when he goes to Lews Therin and restores his sanity to gloat.  Moridin on the other hand has not that I've seen.<br /><br />Now we know that the Dark One can restore life, but not create it, but can he restore sanity or state of mind?  He may be able to, but so far has shown no sign of it.<br /><br />1) Now if Moridin is a alternate personality maybe he took over when Ishmael was reborn, much as Lews attempts to take Rands body over.  If this is the case then Ishmael may always be insane and may wrest control back from Moridin.  I personally like this idea because we know from the Lews/Rand complex that it has some possibility.<br /><br />2)  We know the Wheel spins forever, but no proof is givin that names remain consistant.  Now all we have is Ishmael's word that both him and Rand are linked forever to battle at the end of each age.  All Fel says is that Rand fights the champion of the Dark One at the end of each age.  What if only Rand is linked to the Wheel like that, the Creator can create new life (else eventually none would exist at all due to extensive use of balefire) and probably has linked a particular person to the Wheel as a champion (as we know, or supposedly know from Ishmael, that Rand has gone to the Dark One in ages past)<br />  But for this to work we have to assume that the Creator has ultimate control over the Wheel of Time and the Dark One is merely a super powerful outside force and thus his champion is not a constant.  I'm kind of fuzzy on this one but a friend presented it to me as a counter argument so we will see how it flys.<br /><br />Feedback greatly appreciated<br /><br />...In Randland, evil arent the only ones who get to have fun <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> I like it. You're a little shaky on a point. I distinctly remember Moridin reacting in rage at some point in Tanchico. Other than that, I personally like this theory quite well.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-09 19:54:14
subject: Cadsuane, Egwene, Black, and White
body:
<p>This is a kind of huge prediction of what is in store for both the White and Black Towers.  It'll probably be kind of long.<br /><br />First I'll do the Black Tower.  As we all know, Taim is a power hungry bastard who has turned at least some of the Asha'Man against Rand.  Rand, of course, is too STUPID (or too lazy, take your pick) to realize that Taim is the problem, so we can't expect him to solve the problem with his incredible power.  Thus, he is going to have to find out some way.<br /><br />I think that the fight will begin something like this.  Rand will send either Narishma or Flinn (probably Narishma) back to the tower on some errand.  Obviously, the Asha'Man will capture him (remember, Taim posted their names as deserters).  I think that he will be captured by a member of Logain's faction, who will remember that Logain had doubts about eight Asha'Man deserting at a time.  I think that he will bring Narishma to Logain, who will learn the whole sordid story.  Logain will probably figure out that the attack on Rand was at Taim's orders.<br /><br />This is where it gets tricky.  There are many paths that Logain could take here.  I think the most likely is that Logain will be reluctant to challenge Taim openly, knowing that a fight between Asha'Man will tear large chunks out of the countryside.  He will probably gate to Rand along with Narishma and ask him what he should do.  Rand, remember, has serious problems trusting people, but he KNOWS Taim needs to be ousted (unless he's even dumber than I thought).  He will not, however, trust Logain yet.  I believe that he will give Callandor to Narishma and take up the Choedan Kal himself.  This will give Rand's side a power that Taim cannot POSSIBLY hope to scratch.  However, I believe that he WILL kill Narishma.  At this point Logain will take up Callandor and do something moderately spectacular, killing Taim.  In this way, Rand will start to trust Logain, at least enough to set him up as M'Hael, fulfilling his forseen glory.  It will probably be more bloody than I made it sound, but I don't have the patience to try to predict the whole battle.<br /><br />Now for the White Tower.  We know that the Salidar group has just opened the gateways to begin the attack.  We also know that they want to recapture the White Tower with as little loss of Aes Sedai as possible.  In the White Tower, we have massive mistrust between the Ajahs, Elaida being controlled by the head of the Black, and a growing party in the middle hunting down all the Blacks they can.  In other words, their reaction time to an attack will be VERY slow.  We know Gareth Bryne is a great General, and he will have planned to utilize Gateways as best he can.  He will probably disperse his army all through the city using Gates, with Aes Sedai to support them.  He will be able to capture the city within minutes.  All the Aes Sedai in the Tower will know is that a bunch of people used Saidar, which is very common in Tar Valon.<br /><br />The best way to capture the White Tower as bloodlessly as possible would be, of course, to shield everyone in it.  This can be accomplished after the city is captured.  Leaving the soldiers in place to hold the city, the Aes Sedai will be able to begin.  I believe that they will gate into the Tower in groups of six or twelve, link, shield any sisters they see, and then Skim to a predetermined spot, where they will turn their captives over to the main group of attackers and then do it all over again.  The numbers of AS on each side are approximately equal, so they should be able to pull this tactic off.  In effect, the Salidar group will be capturing 6 or so Tower AS every time a group goes into the tower (there would probably be 10 or so groups, maybe more).  The Tower AS will be taken completely by surprise, probably not even knowing they are being attacked until they are shielded.<br /><br />I believe that Mesaana will be scooped up in this way, but I don't know what will happen with her, so I won't really include her in this.<br /><br />The army that the Tower has gathered will not be a factor, since the tactics that the Salidar group will employ will pretty much guarantee that they won't react till it is way too late.<br /><br />Elaida will be tried and Stilled, and Egwene set up as Amyrlin.  The Salidar group will then have to go through each AS in the Tower (who they have all captured, remember) to make sure that they will accept the new Amyrlin, which is pretty likely, since no one was happy with Elaida's misrule.<br /><br />I'm not going to go into what's going to happen with the Black, since i don't know.<br /><br />The last thing in this theory (finally) has to do with Cadsuane and Egwene.  We all know that Cadsuane will teach Rand and the Asha'Man something that they won't like.  I think everyone has figured out that this will be that they are still human.  They have been trained as killing machines from the start, resigned to the fact that they are going to die.  They really ARE no longer human.  The same with Rand.  Cadsuane is somehow going to make them realize that, now that the taint is gone, they have to let go and become human again.  Don't know HOW she's going to do this, but I believe that this is going to have to happen before the White and Black towers are unified.<br /><br />Now we jump forward a little to the negotiations between the White and Black towers.  The White will have somehow found out that Saidin is clear and reached the conclusion that the towers should be unified.  I don't know how this is going to happen, but I believe that Egwene will play a critical role.  During the negotiations, the Asha'Man are definitely going to demand that the Amyrlin Seat and M'Hael be equals, as well as Aes Sedai and Asha'Man, neither group being above the other in any way.  Obviously, the Aes Sedai will never accept this with their current mentality.  We all know that almost all Aes Sedai posses a massive arrogance complex.  Egwene is going to have to teach them all that they are NOT the masters of creaton.  I don't know how, but it's going to have to happen, or we have AS fighting Asha'Man, and the Dark One or Seanchan can just walk in and take over.<br /><br />That's pretty much all I have.  Yikes, it was long.  I might even be totally wrong, but I think that is the gist of what is in store for the Black and White towers.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Sounds good! I don't think that Taim will kill Narishma because in tSR when Rand quotes the Prophecies of the Dragon, he says  <br /><br />&quot;Into the heart he thrusts his sword,<br />into the heart, to hold their hearts.<br />Who draws it out shall follow after,<br />What hand can grasp that fearful blade?&quot;<br />pg. 349, TSR, soft cover.<br /><br />Narishma drew out Callandor after Rand, so he will follow after Rand. He can't die, the Pattern won't let him. But other than that, I think that your theory has merit.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-09 20:08:24
subject: Mat Must Restore Balance
body:
<p>In all of the theories about how Mat will give up &quot;half the light to save the world,&quot; there is an accompanying image of Mat plucking out his own eye and placing it on a scale.  This is an important part of the prophecy that has not been mentioned or examined in other theories.<br /><br />By placing his eye on the scale, Mat restores balance in some way.  He must give up half the light in the world to save it.  This may mean that the world may have too much of a good thing (kind of like, &quot;God, please save me from your followers&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />).  After all, being that Jordan is all about balance, it would only stand to reason that for there to be Good, there must be Evil, and vice versa.  If there is all good and no evil, than Good could break the Wheel just as easily, and the results wouldn't be much better than if the DO won.  Mat must restore this balance by eliminating some of this good.<br /><br />Maybe this is just my sleep deprived brain skewing things again, but is not one of the honorifics given to one of the world leaders, &quot;The Light of the World&quot;?  I am certain that in at least one book, one of the rulers had a title such as that...maybe one of the Amyrlin's?<br /><br />Basically, the world is going to get too much of a good thing in such a way that rather than the Wheel being stopped by the Dark One and the world made in his image, the Wheel will be in danger of being stopped by the good guys, thus causing the balance to be tipped in the complete opposite direction.  This may sound great, but like I said, too much of anything can be bad.  Mat somehow holds the key to restoring this balance through personal sacrifice.  How great of a scene would it be to have Mat realize that he has to kill someone who is very close to him, or that he, (gulp, dare I say it?) loves, to save the world?</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> That would be very interesting alright. I like the way you presented it as a balance. I personally think that Mat has to give up half the world to the Seanchan to get them allied with Rand against the DO, but your theory has alot of merit in it to.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-10 10:26:21
subject: The Future of the Seanchan
body:
<p>It seems very likely that in the not too distant future, the Seanchan society as a whole is going to break apart at the core.  The catalyst for this will be the discovery (by all of the Seanchan and anyone else who is interested) of the fact that <i>sul`dam</i> are in fact <i>marath`damane</i>.<br /><br />Jordan devotes a whole chapter to Bethamin's thoughts and her conversation with the the Seeker in WH (Ch. 20, Questions of Treason).  Now most of you will say that this is simply a lead up to Egeanin joining up with Mat in his escape from Ebou Dar and nothing more, however I believe this chapter serves another purpose as well as the one I just mentioned, that being that it introduces us to a dedicated search for possible treason/DF's in the Empire by the Seekers, but more importantly, tracing the theory that <i>sul`dam</i> can channel.<br /><br />The Seekers must seek truth no matter the cost, and I doubt that they would hide a fact like this, even though it seems likely, unless they were to stray from their original purpose in favour of keeping Seanchan society together.<br /><br />We all know that once a secret is in the heads/mouths of more than two people, it is as good as known to everyone - unless those people are a group like the Forsaken or Aes Sedai - and it seems to me that more then enough people already know of <i>sul`dam</i> being <i>marath`damane</i>/channelers for it to not be far off getting out everywhere.<br /><br />Jordan devotes a whole - quite large- paragraph to Bethamin's fears of being able to see the weaves, sense the ability to channel etc.  In this paragraph she also thinks to herself how the this knowledge could make the Empire tremble, which tells us that Jordan has given thought to this secret coming out in the open.  Bethamin tells us that Alwhin had discovered the two collared women and reported them to Suroth, so we can safely assume that both these women know the secret too, although Suroth - as a DF - knowing, wouldn't mean much (she obeys the DO/Forsaken).<br /><br />The Seeker's speech about his purpose reveals some very interesting information:<br /><br />a) he suspects Suroth and others of being involved in a conspiracy to murder,<br /><br />b) he also suspects Suroth of being a Darkfriend, or part of an Aes Sedai plot: &quot;The Aes Sedai of these lands seek power in the Empire, a return to the days of chaos and murder,when no man could close his eyes at night knowing he would wake, and they are aided by a venemous worm of treachery boring from within.&quot;<br /><br />This makes it clear that the Seekers are on the trail of Suroth, Darkfriends and plots within the Empire.<br /><br />However I digress.. A very revealing sentence in his speech shows that the Seekers are already suspecting that all <i>sul`dam</i> are <i>marath`damane</i>, &quot;'You <i>sul`dam</i> always say you can tell a <i>marath`damane</i> at sight, correct?' He looked up suddenly, and she somehow managed to meet those frozen eyes with a smile.&quot;<br /><br />He looks up suddenly, almost as though expecting to see her reaction to his half hinted suggestion that <i>sul`dam</i> are able to channel.<br /><br />So we have suspicion within the Empire. Then there is the matter of the all the <i>sul`dam</i> captured by the Armies of the Dragon during Rand's battles with the Seanchan on PoD. In chapter 8 of WH (Sea Folk and Kin), Elayne thinks to herself &quot;the knowledge that <i>sul`dam</i> themselves were able to channel would shake the Seanchan to their core, maybe even break them apart.&quot;<br /><br />Again this is more proof that Jordan has given the idea thought. <br /><br />Elayne also has her plan already set out.  &quot;Still, she had seen right away what to do with the <i>sul`dam</i> . Convince them they could learn to channel, then send them back to the Seanchan. Apart from Nynaeve, only Egwene, Aviendha and a few of the Kin knew her plan. Nynaeve and Egwene were doubtful, but however hard the <i>sul`dam</i> tried to hide what they were once they were returned, eventaully one of them would slip.&quot;<br /><br />I expect to see this happening in coming books, and the results will be shocking to say the least.  Once it comes out that <i>a`dam</i> only work with two women who can channel, then EVERY <i>sul`dam</i> will be classed as <i>marath`damane</i>, and then <i>damane</i>. However this obviously leads to there being no <i>sul`dam</i> left, because they are all just female channelers!  Which in turn leads to a major restructure of Seanchan society, not to mention the shock at a foundation belief system being removed completely.<br /><br />It's even possible that all the Seanchan will unite under Mat and Tuon, with Mat as their king and Tuon as their queen - they are going to get married; this is a fact, as the Foxes said it for true - in time for TG, although there's the matter of the Empress - might she live forever - being the highest position in the Empire, but it's not like every decision is going to be referred to her first, because she's thousands of miles away.<br /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> I do agree that RJ has spent too much time showing that <i>sul'dam</i> can learn to channel to not make this a plot line.  This may be the one thing that stops the Seanchan, since once the <i>Corenne</i> has taken effect it will be difficult to get in their way.  I'm interested to see how this will play out in the next book, as Mat and Tuon are escaping with <i>sul'dam</i> and Aes Sedai.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-10 00:00:00
subject: Belief and Order. Rand must be taught to Laugh and Cry
body:
<p></p><p>Herid Fel - <i>"Have to clear rubble in order to rebuild. Belief and order give strength"</i></p><p>A fair chance that Herid Fel meant Shadar Logoth (and the taint) was the rubble. But what about Belief and Order?</p><p>The Amayar - The Water Way - believe that life is an illusion and areflection of our belief.  Mordeth's belief infected the King and the nobles and eventually swallowed the whole population of Aridhol.  Perrin in WH when leaving Masema noticed a new smell coming from hisguards. He described it as <i>"A reflection of Masema's madness"</i>.  The Prophecy at the start of ACOS says we must pray that the Dragon remembers love and tears.  Cadsuane believes that Rand must find 'laughter and tears' or his victory at the Last Battle will be almost as dark as his defeat.  Why?</p><p>Because as like Mordeth, Masema's emotions and beliefs are now starting to infect his followers.  And if Rand remains hard as stone he will effect his followers as well, perhaps turning his loosely allied armies into emotionless and heartless killers.</p><p>Plus there is also the 'balance' in RJ's philosophy. Mordeth and his evil created Mashadar.  What would Rand's emotionless behaviour create?</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Many theories have been dedicated as to exactly what Cadsuane will teach Rand and the Asha'man.  This is a very good description as to <b>why</b> she would teach him laughter and tears.  WoT does seem to show a pattern of people becoming as nuts as their leader.  That would not bode well for the forces of Light at TG.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-12 12:53:49
subject: Strength After Healing Stilling
body:
<p>All right, this is short, for there isn't too much to say.<br /><br />Basically, here are the facts.<br /><br />Nynaeve heals Logain, and he appears just as strong as before. If not, she states, he must have been frightfully strong. Possibly as strong as Rand. So, let us discard that possibility for the time being. She heals Siuan and Leanne, but they are both reduced to utter weaklings, which they most definitely were not before being stilled. So, the man healed by the woman remains as strong as before, and the women healed by the woman are weakened considerably. At around the same time as Nynaeve discovers this healing, so does an Asha'man, (can't remember his name). Coincidence? Likely not. All that is needed for proof is for that Asha'man to heal a woman, and we shall see if she is as strong as before or not.<br /><br />So, my guess is that when healed by someone of the opposite source (Saidin/Saidar) the stilled person retains all of his/her previous power, while if healed by one of the same side of the True Source, power is lost.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I cannot delve into this any longer, for I must leave.<br /><br /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> You may have something there. It certainly piques my curiousity as to what will happen when Damer Flinn (That is the Asha'Man you couldn't remember the name of) tries to heal a stilled woman. Probably the one who bonded him, but that's for another theory.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-07-12 13:22:46
subject: The Dynamic of a Channeler to Channeler Bond
body:
<p>Ok here's an idea that was sparked by some peoples belief that Logain has not bonded the two Aes Sedai that PoD and WH claims he has bonded.  I believe he has, not only because the Asha'Man have bonded their wives before he arrived and also because they can feel him in their head (the red sister who led the expedition to the Black Tower clearly indicated that there had been quite a ruckus happening in Logain's bedroom the night before her scene come up.)  But this is not the point.  The reason, it seems, for everyones doubt is that the two Aes Sedai seem to be more compeled than any Warder we have come across.<br />And since I believe that Logain and his Aes Sedai are indeed bonded I think this has more to do with the sex and the ability to channel of the bondee(warder) or more blandly a different type of bonding.<br /><br />I personally think it has to do more with my first suggestion.<br />In Aes Sedai to Warder(male) relationship the Aes Sedai has the option to compel their warders(else catcing one without consent wouldn't make a difference cause he would be able to run away. (there has only been an example of one that I know of were the Warder has escaped, Elyas, which may have something to do with the wolf brother thing.))<br /><br />Now if we were to use this as a basis that says all bondings should behave the same their should be no change when an Aes Sedai holds the bond.  A Aes Sedai should be able to exact the same amount of control over her warder regardless of sex or channelling ability.  However this is not the case.<br /><br />The first example that this is not true is Elayne and Birgitte.  Elayne(Aes Sedai) has no control over her warder(female) except the very general expectation that her warder will protect her and attempt to stay around her.  This most likly has to do with the fact that Birgitte is a woman and perhaps compeling her like other instances would only reflect back to Elayne.<br /><br />The second example is Alanna's(Aes Sedai) bond to Rand(Ashaman).  When Alanna is asked about her attempts to compel Rand she says she tried but that her attempt was like trying to move an oak tree or some such.  In other words near impossible.  Alanna seemed to think that this had to do with him being a Ta'veren but perhaps that is only part of it.  Perhaps it is because he can channel that affects how well he is compelled. I say this for you to take into consideration that a male channeller one to one is typically going to be stronger than a female channeller.  In this particular instance it is definitely the case seeing as Alanna is much weeaker compared to the Forsaken while Rand is still stronger than them all. Now this relationship says that almost no woman can stand up to Rand in the Power alone.  Could it be the same with the bond.  Is it possible that one Aes Sedai can not compel one Ashaman?  I think so.<br /><br />Now what if these same idea were applied the other way around where the Ashaman is the one holding bond on the Bonded?(woman).<br />The Ashamans' wives seem to be under the same level of compulsion as a Aes Sedai to male warder which in some ways is just a desire to remain with the person who has bonded them.<br /><br />Logain(Ashaman) has bonded two Aes Sedai and I think the relationship to the power that I metioned above can be applied here.  Take for instance that Logain is most likely more powerful than the two Aes Sedai and that the male to female relationship is more potent in relation to the ability to compel and you have Logain able to compel his Aes Sedai to a higher degree than the usual Aes Sedai to warder bond.<br /><br />This line of thought also leads me to believe that if more than one Aes Sedai were to bond an Ashaman they would togeather be able to control him (makes me wonder what might have happened if Min were able to channel and if they were willing to work with Alanna(Rand can handle three Aes Sedai but I'm not sure about four))<br />so here are my points in equasion form<br /><br />Bonder-Bondee = Level of compulsion 1=average<br />1AS   -   1Wm = 1<br />1AS   -   1Ww = &lt;1<br />1AS   -   1A  = 0<br />1A    -   1Wm = &lt;1<br />1A    -   1Ww = 1<br />1A    -   1AS = &gt;1<br />1-13AS-   1A  = 1-&gt;1<br />1A    -1-13AS = 1-&lt;1<br /><br />I hope this make sense to someone <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br />Thanks for looking at this even if you disagree.<br /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> I think that you have thought this out very thoroughly. I agree with your assesment of the one to one bondings, but the multiple bondings probably have different rules than the normal bondings. If the rules remain the same then I'll agree with you. I think that the Bondees would still have to discover the way to work together though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


