# w_comment

created: 2002-09-22 16:01:46
subject: <b>Umm...</b>
body:
Ok, now people have already basicly said this, but I'm going to try to summarize it as simply as possible:<br />1) Egwene controls the pain herself, this means:<br />  A) We know that it is impossible to actually heal yourself,   <br />     therefor we know that Egwene was not actually healed<br />  B) Egwene has alot of knowledge of T'AR from the Wise Ones, <br />     she knows how to control things there, therefor what she <br />     does there is simply an affect of T'AR and wouldn't <br />     carry over to the real world<br />2) Nynaeve HEALED Rand, this means:<br />  A) Since any injury etc aquired in T'AR is real, we can  <br />     surmize that this holds true for healing as well<br />  B) Because Nynaeve used the One Power, which we know works <br />     in T'AR from other encounters we know that the healing <br />     worked<br />Conclusion:<br />Nyneave's healing of Rand was much like being injured in T'Ar, it hold in the real world.  Egwene's easing of the pain is simply her using of the knowledge of T'AR to control it, and therefor has no affect once she leaves it, as, for example, one's dress doesn't change in the real world based on what they think on themselves in T'AR.<br /><br />


created: 2002-03-30 01:13:46
subject: <b>Poor McManamy . . .</b>
body:
I do realize it's been over a year since you posted this theory, and you'll probably never see my response, but hey, it's good practice.<br /><br />First of all, I agree with you.  Balefire, even in small amounts, would still require a large amount of the OP, and so I think Rand or other channelers nearby WOULD feel it if balefire were the weapon.<br /><br />Next, I also believe it's Padan Fain, for the reasons you mentioned and more.  However, I believe Asmodean had his throat cut, not his mouth covered and stabbed.<br /><br />Graendel probably did it, like everyone believes, but then again, everyone thought Taim was Demandred (myself included for a while--I'm big enough to admit it).<br /><br />Let's cross our fingers and hope for Fain.<br /><br />-Braidtugger <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/approve.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />&quot;My Other Car Is Bela!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bela.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-04-01 17:08:39
subject: <b>Good observations</b>
body:
Balefire can only be used by the stongest channellers, owing to the fact that it takes more or the Power than anything else.  It took everything Moiraine had to make balefire a couple fingerswidth, if that.  And she's considered fairly strong.  Either way, it's too close anyway to where Aviendha is, since Asmodean just left the fountains where she and Mat were.  She wasn't far away when it happened, so it couldn't have been saidar, and unlikely to have been saidin since there's a) no one available at the time and place and b) RAND would sense it, probably.<br /><br />Since a tiny bit of channelling could be felt from outside a manor by SORILEA and Aviendha is much stronger, and balefire takes alot, it can't have been Graendal, simple as that.


created: 2002-05-05 08:14:03
subject: <b>Graendal and True Power?</b>
body:
Graendal certainly could have killed Asmodean without being sensed by any women chanellers nearby if she was allowed to use the true power to do so.  As she almost certainly acted under the DO's command, would she not have had this option open to her?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /> Baphomet 23 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br />Give me the strength to change the things I can, the grace to accept the things I cannot, and a great big bag of money.<br /><br />My online gallery:<br />http://daveb23.deviantart.com/gallery/<br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-24 13:38:29
subject: <b>Lanfear</b>
body:
I'm voting for Lanfear.  Jordan sead that all of the clues were in Fires of Heaven.  Asmodean was thinking about Lanfear just before the event, and was thinking of how glad he was that she was gone.  Moments later, &quot;YOU!!&quot;  Shock.  Who would have shocked Asmoean the most at that point?  Lanfear.  As for the how it happened...don't know.


created: 2001-06-03 15:47:56
subject: <b>Now that is a Theory</b>
body:
Ive read throught almost all of the threories, and none of them have made there point so clear and obivsouse as this one. Also on a personal note, I like asmodean So I hope that graendal didnt use balefire to kill him. That way he can be brought back into the story somehow.


created: 2001-06-15 14:36:27
subject: <b>question</b>
body:
If She could use the one power to kill Asmodean. Why not make a gate way the hell away from there???<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot; cogito ergo doleo.&quot;<br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /> Veni, vidi, volo in domum redire<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" />Ecce potestas casei.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-21 08:45:31
subject: <b>Aaargh!</b>
body:
Why must you torment me so?!<br />Lanfear killed Asmodean FULL STOP! If you unravel that theory, there is nothing we can trust!<br />(shudders)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;We wont give a fig,<br /> We'll tell you to,<br /> Go stick your head in a pig!&quot;<br />  The Sirius Cybernetics Customer Services Helpline - Share and Enjoy!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-24 19:04:05
subject: <b>No, It was Aviendha!</b>
body:
Graendal just doens't settle the &quot;obvious&quot; requirement.  We have no real reason to suspect her other than that she is one of the people who could have done it.  Aviendha, on the other hand, was mentioned in the same chapter.  Also, RJ has already said (though I only know this third hand, so its OK not to believe me) that the persistence of Rand's wounds was due to the effects of entering T'A'R in the flesh, not a second forsaken.  I think it makes sense, anyway.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Efreet<br /><br />Extropian<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Incurable Optomist <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />Mainah<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" />Almighty ONSEC of MITSFS<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />Lover of Squaresoft, Manga, and Strategy Games<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/blush.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br />&quot;Liberate Natural Courgarness&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Reality is what you can get away with&quot;<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-27 21:40:53
subject: <b>Nice...</b>
body:
Thats a very tidy theory and i think we have a winner...<br />Seeing though she could use her pets to slip undetected throughout the palace to maneuver for her attack etc.<br /><br />And that she was composing herself, or getting her disguise ready, when Asmodean walked in on her...<br /><br />A very tidy and well thought out theory<br /><br />10 points plus merits from Madrox<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Dzugashvilli Incarnate<br />                  Infamous Dreadnaught<br />                  Baptist of Blasphemy<br /> <br /><i>Rules and Order are the bane of life <br /> Only chaos frees the soul</i> - Madrox Stalin</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-14 00:37:12
subject: <b>I agree i was Graendal, but he's Alive</b>
body:
I agree i was Graendal, but he's Alive.  I think Assmodian deserved worse then death and he got it.  Perhaps he is Shadar HAran, who nows.


created: 2001-08-22 05:07:54
subject: <b>Fish Bites</b>
body:
Ok.  I am not saying that Robert Jordan told me or my best friend of my cousin's second girlfriend's best friend working at the local mini-mart but, I believe that the wound Rand suffers from the fish bite linger from his attack with Rahvin is simply the nature of the World of Dreams.  We know that when someone or something is balefired that it is burned out of the pattern and it's actions no longer appear to have existed but the memory of them remain.  Using that key piece of knowledge I purpose that what happened to Rand was simply a matter of his mind remembering that he had been attacked by Fish (he remembered Aveindha and Asmodean dead) and his mind made the wounds remain even though they should have faded.  They remained because the mind can make things real in the world of dreams.  And if he can use his mind to effect his own body (ie misting out, or fighting becoming an animal) it's completely possible that his mind left the wounds, Rand did not know any better about the World of Dreams to remove them with his mind.  As to why they were healed, since he was in the flesh it was necessary to have them healed to removed.<br /><br />Karolus


created: 2001-09-06 18:48:35
subject: <b>Graendal did it. &lt;-- (note the period)</b>
body:
After reading that last theory, I have no doubts any longer. I combined it with the piece of evidence that I'd concocted, and now I'm finally glad the issue is cleared up.<br /><br />My bit of proof that fits with this theory is:<br /><br />Asmodean's surprise at recognizing the killer is set up earlier in the book.  Asmodean knows the location of only two Forsaken: Sammael and Graendal.  Though he states she has dropped out of sight, his only information about her was that she was hiding quietly in Arad Doman---until he suddenly sees her in Caemlyn. <br /><br />&quot;You? [What are YOU doing HERE?]&quot; basically.<br /><br />RJ puts this bit about Graendal's location in, and also has Moghedien say Graendal was helping Rahvin.  Just in time for it to be 'obvious' (his biggest requirement for the killer).  It is so fresh in the mind when the murder happens, that no one could be more obvious. <br /><br />


created: 2002-01-31 13:30:00
subject: <b>Ahh but . . .</b>
body:
A few points against Graendal:<br /><br />*Moghedien, mistress of TAR, didn't realise she [Graendal] was in TAR?!<br />*Fish Bites can't have been from Graendal, that was just the weird nature of TAR. This is provable.<br />*Aviendha, who must have been relatively near to Asmodean when he died didn't feel Saidar being channeled.<br />*Sammael could also have been there, and if we have a choice between two channelers with no way to separate them, but have been told we can work it out, it must be neither of them.


created: 2002-02-02 18:00:15
subject: <b>See my post higher up</b>
body:
I posted a &quot;why nobody detected channeling&quot; explanation in another Graendal theory above.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" />   the Harvester of Mankind    <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" />      the Thief of Years       <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" />     the Slayer of Worlds      <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" />     the Ultimate Reality      <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Blog - brucetheloon.blogspot.com</font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-11 13:13:19
subject: <b>Semirhage</b>
body:
Why not? We know that she has been spying on Lanfear,Greandal,Sammael &amp; Rahvin. So she knew what they were up to. Ravhin agreed with Lanfear's plans but he also made some plans of his own. Maybe he didn't feel secure to take on Rhand all by him self &amp; made an agreement with Semirhage to help him. He probably thought that Lanfear could have planned to keep Rhand for herself &amp; to get rid of some Forsaken on the way.<br /><br />I think that there definitly was another Forsaken in Tel'aran'rhiod because Moghedien told Nynaeve that Ravhin didn't know much about the dreamworld. How could he create all those different traps then?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" />Belgium's best kept secret <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /><br />!! vote for Wesley Clark !!<br /><br />give me a freeking job will ya!!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-18 07:16:29
subject: <b>I'm fairly sure it isn't Semirhage cos...</b>
body:
I don't think its that obvious. Surely for it to be obvious she would have been mentioned more in the first five books? I can't remember her being mentioned  more then just in passing references, mainly from the other Forsaken or others wondering where she might be and what she is up to. Personally I think Graendal could have done it, in any case I think it was a female channeler because if it were a male Rand would probably have noticed, a female channeling would probably go unoticed much easier. Also backing up the fact that it was a female is that just before he is killed he isn't cold specifically instead it says &quot;Idly - but with a shiver, too - he wondered whether being reborn in this fashion made him a new man.&quot; which does not necessarily mean he was cold but could mean that he was feeling a female channeling. I don't think it could be Avienda as i've heard some people say because i don't think Asmodean would be scared of her, surely he would have no reason to fear her so much the blood would drain from his face, i think its much more likely to be one of the Forsaken and with the fact that we are supposed to think Lanfear dead, that we know where Moghedien is and that we don't really know much about Semirhage or Mesaana at this point that only really leaves Graendal.<br />I could be wrong but thats the way i see it...


created: 2002-08-22 15:19:28
subject: <b>Sorry, it doesn't work</b>
body:
You say that it was done with the One power, well... when Greandal works together with Caddar(sammael), Moridin comes after spying at them, hidden with the One power. So if Greandal could use the one power she would have felt him.


created: 2003-03-12 16:17:30
subject: <b>Aviendha feeling the power</b>
body:
Maybe Graendal inverted the weaves.  If Lanfear did it Aviendha would have felt saidar just the same.  The fact that Moghedien says Graendal and Rahvin are together, that RJ says we meet the killer in book 5 and Graendal speaks as if she is sure Asmo is dead and not just missing afterwards seals it for me.


created: 2007-02-06 19:52:10
subject: <b>there's only one more obvious candidate...</b>
body:
Davram Bashere was mentioned in the same chapter as Asmodean's death, but that's not even the obvious part.<br /><br />Asmodean was killed while looking for some good wine.<br /><br />Davram Bashere goes to attend Rand with two vats of, what else?, WINE!!<br /><br />Robert Jordan has said (according to the FAQ) that in TAR the effects of channelling can sometimes wear off slowly, so I'm in agreement with those others who argue that this implies nobody else was in TAR with Rahvin and Rand other than Nynaeve and Moghedien. <br /><br />I also agree with whoever said that Graendal would not simply hide in a wine closet to &quot;lay low&quot;. She's a frickin Forsaken. She'd have channelled the Heck out of there. And why not channel if she'd already used the Power to kill Asmodean? <br /><br />I'm not gonna go into my Davram Bashere theory here, cuz I'm pretty sure somebody already covered that one. I just thought I'd do my part to debunk the Graendal theory the way you Graendalians undid the Lanfearian Theory. <br /><br />Sooner or later, I'll convince you people.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Whoo!! H Town!!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-21 05:30:03
subject: <b>Breaking seals?</b>
body:
I believe the reason that he was killed had to do with his last note to rand about build something from the ground up. And maybe LTT knew this also and that is why he wanted to break the seal when he laid his hands on one.<br /><br />Maybe, maybe not.<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" />  sheep lover extrordinaire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br />The man with the magic hands</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-24 23:08:27
subject: <b>Master Fel</b>
body:
I agree with the thing about the Seals but I believe he knew more than he was letting on. He knew something else that was vital to Rand.


created: 2002-02-12 20:10:28
subject: <b>Good theory but...</b>
body:
This is a very good theory, and in my opinion, completely correct. The only thing I didn't like about it is the fact that it was completely way to big on the scope. Almost everyone would agree that he discovered something important to the dark side. Good theory though.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> True Power is knowing that you can, but you don't. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-red.gif" border="0" /> -Deathbone1 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-green.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Current rank in Wse PTS: 164 out of top 1000 (7/8/03)<br />We are men of action. Lies do not become us.<br />Life finds a way.<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-18 16:41:28
subject: <b>Yes, but who sent the gholam?</b>
body:
Who knew about Fel's discovery?? It has to be someone close to Fel, maybe close to Rand as well. Someone with the autority to send a gholam or talk directly to someone with the autority to do it. I think because this most have happened rather quick....?


created: 2002-06-24 09:13:39
subject: <b>Another darkfriend ??</b>
body:
Master Fel`s killer must have been close to Rand to learn about those discoveries.<br />My opinion is that there is a darkfriend (certainly very powerful, maybe even a forsaken) who spies on him.<br />this mysterious one could be the responsible for Asmo`s death as well as he recognized the killer.<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Shannath, the Eyeless-roaster <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-11 03:11:09
subject: <b>Min walking down a dangerous path</b>
body:
I think it would be quite logical to assume that Min will somehow discover whatever it was that caused Fel to be murdered. She has, after all, taken to reading all of his books (worse than Loial in that department, I say!).<br /><br />Whether she is placed in similar danger to Fel by her discovery or if she just comes up with a few concepts which aid Rand in Tarmon Gai'don......well, that's up to RJ's discretion for now.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Koomie <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />  Konrad Shar'cair  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-12-02 20:02:56
subject: <b>Min's discoveries</b>
body:
The book that Min is now reading was written by non other than Ishamael. The book accompanying the WoT series (can't remember its name) mentions the names of some of the books he wrote as a philosopher, and that is what Fel was reading (and now Min). This is why he was killed - under orders from who I have no idea - so Min will discover something vitally important to Rand. Any suggestions what?


created: 2003-04-25 12:13:40
subject: <b>Very interesting</b>
body:
I wasn't aware that the books Min now and Fel earlier have been reading were penned by Ishamael.<br /><br />I have always felt that Harid Fel was mentioned just enough that he and/or his work must play some sort of major role in things to come.  The fact that his death was mentioned only briefly in about 1 page is typically Jordanesque in that a lot of his important events are delivered like bombs amidst much less important material.  I've always loved that about his work....you can be reading along going through ordinary run of the mill stuff and something huge will hit you out of the blue.<br /><br />It has surprises me though that after his death there has been very little mention of it.  Min is reading his books feverishly but Rand hasn't put in any effort at all to discover what Fel may have been working on or found out.  When he was in Tear immediately after taking the stone he read just about every book he could get his hands on trying to decipher the prophecies....so obviously he has an intrest in knowledge.  It seems odd that he wouldn't expect that whatever Fel was working on that was important enough to get him killed was worth looking into.


created: 2002-01-23 14:04:26
subject: <b>siadin unlikely</b>
body:
it is unlike ly that fel discovered how to cleanse siadin b/c the forsaken were unsure how and rand did it any way i think it has something to do with the DO's prsion b/c fel knew more about things like that then he did about the Power, especially since he couldn't channell.


created: 2002-02-16 00:39:23
subject: <b>I Agree...</b>
body:
Rand says that the Eelfinn or Aelfinn (I don't remember which one) told him a riddle when he asked how to cleanse saidin.  I believe he told Fel this and he discovered the answer to the riddle.


created: 2002-06-20 18:22:36
subject: <b>It was Ishy...</b>
body:
I don't have my books here, so you'll just have to bear with me.  <br /><br />Fel's last note to Rand said something about &quot;having to clear the rubble before you can rebuild&quot;, and I think this is what people have latched onto when they suggest Fel figured out how to re-seal the DO's prison.<br /><br />Here's the next thing...<br /><br />If you look in the guide, and read Ishamael's entry, it says he was the author of several books on philosophy, and gives some titles.  Fel had one of those books (or a partial copy... whatever) in his possession when he was kiled.  Min has it now, BTW.  <br /><br />Next, we need to look at the brutality of Fel's murder.  It can't be anything but the gholam.  There is ample evidence that Ishy tells the gholam and other unique shadowspawn, like Slayer, what to do, so I feel it is safe to assume that he ordered the hit.  <br /><br />Ishy has always been about &quot;the bigger picture&quot;.  The title of the book Fel had was something like &quot;Unreason and the Nature of Reality&quot;.  I think Fel might have stumbled across something about the very nature of &quot;The Wheel&quot; itself, some vital tidbit about how the ages come and go.  <br /><br />Here's where I'll whip out the REAL big assumptions.  How would Ishy know Fel needed to be silenced?  Simple.  Fortelling.  He's done better for himself than any of the other Forsaken:  Only partially trapped in the bore, able to stir the stew throughout history.  Despite losing the Stone of Tear and Callandor, not to mention his life, he is reincarnated with no stipulations from the DO, such as Cyndane (Lanfear) now faces.  Made Nae'Blis for a horrific failure?  That makes no sense, unless Ishy KNEW what the outcome was to be, and was able to turn Rand's victory into an elaborate, costly, and highly effective setup.  We know the little tricks and Talents the other Forsaken possess.  We know flim-flam about what Ishy is capable of, but I'm sure the S.O.B. can see the future.<br /><br />To sum up, Fel got wasted because Ishy knew he MIGHT come up with some dangerous info, not neccesarily that he had come across it already.<br /><br />


created: 2001-04-14 00:00:00
subject: <b>Doesn't fit anymore</b>
body:
Unfortunately, if cleansing saidin means breaking the seals, this would mean that Rand just broke all of the<br />remaining seals when he removed the taint on saidin.  Since we heard nothing about the seals breaking,<br />I'd say that they don't cause the taint.  They may be weakened by a similar influence, but they're not the cause<br />of the taint.  <img src="images/aessedai.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;Who we were is lost to all men, and life is bitter.&quot;<br />&quot;Expect nothing, and you will not be surprised.&quot;  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-05-22 18:03:47
subject: <b>Shadar Logoth</b>
body:
Kaiser Karl is right, the Seals aren't tied to the cleansing of Saidin. But that wasn't the only thing he was researching for Rand. While in Tear Rand read extensively of everything he could get his hands on. Surely between that and his trip to Rhuidean he is aware of the Bore and how the seals do their job. <br /><br />Fel's cryptic note to him was about the need to clear away rubble before building. The rubble of Shadar Logoth, including Mashadar, is gone after the event that cleansed Saidin, and that surely could have been at least part of what Fel was saying. But with several of the seals already broken and at least one other known to be softened and vulnerable, perhaps Fel determined that in order to win the Last Battle it was necessary to more perfectly seal the DO's prison, and to do that would mean clearing the rubble of the seven old seals. Certainly that seal was never perfect, else Ishamael would not have been only partially trapped, nor would later events have allowed the seals to degenerate and free the other Forsaken.<br /><br />My question is, if Fel figured any of this out, how did anyone else know of it to send a gholam to kill him? He did seem fairly careful about his information, even if absentminded about other things. I hope we get to find out.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-13 08:22:35
subject: <b>The seals and the taint</b>
body:
Now, I am fairly convinced that the taint on saidin is caused by the seals. They are after all the only thing which connect saidin and the DO. Men sealed up the prison and men have suffered the taint. The thing I did not understand was how anyone can be sure the seals are not already broken. The last we heard was this hughe fight and Rand and Nynaeve passing out, saidin cleansed and a few forsaken dead. Nobody said anything about the seals not being shattered. I thing Jordan has just found a way to speed us a bit towards Tarmon'gaidon. And about time!<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <font color="a52a2a">Magnus Alexander corpore parvus erat </font> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> <font color="b8860b">Dissenting voice of wotmania</font> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> <br /><font color="6495ed">Frightfully stubborn pacifist</font> <br /><br /><i><font color="669900"> Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent</font></i></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-23 17:09:44
subject: <b>taint is connected to the seals</b>
body:
yes i agree with mierin sedai , the seals are obviously connected to the taint and YES it was only cleansed at the end of the book , remember what &quot; the world of &quot; says, that in the age of legends no one even realised that the bore had unleashed the dark one for a long time.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Pastor of the church of the probable opinions <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" />  marked with the dreaded LVIII  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" />  bearer of the monolith  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Irish man of good Celtic stock <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> ready to answer the call of the horn <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /> Fourth Letter Telamon <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-12-05 22:47:04
subject: <b>Reasons</b>
body:
I'd just like to point out that whatever Fel was killed for, the Dark One had to find out about it first. We know that it knows a lot about some things going on and not about others. Was this something that needed a Darkfriend's spying? And if so, who was it?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Reading: The Woodlanders - Thomas Hardy</font><p></p>


created: 2001-12-09 22:02:36
subject: <b>Whoops!</b>
body:
I just tried actually reading the other posts and I see my point has already been made, in more than one place. There was something else too but it's gone now.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Reading: The Woodlanders - Thomas Hardy</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-25 04:37:53
subject: <b>Non-Seal theory on Fel's Death</b>
body:
Haven't read many posts about Fel's death, but I don't think this one has been mentioned.<br /><br />To the best of my memory, Rand and Fel had also discussed the Wheel Cycle, and how everything that was happening had happened before and would happen again.<br /><br />Besides the cleansing, I always had a gut feeling that Fel had discovered something about the Cycle too; like maybe how to change it.  Maybe somehow the Cycle is stuck, and it shouldn't be.  And maybe changing it would either trap the DO for eternity or destroy all of the work that the DO has put into this sequence of Cycles, and the DO would have to start over.  And maybe changing it has something to do with Rand's survival/rebirth at the last battle.  If this is the case, then the DO would do anything to kill Fel without drawing too much attention to his theories.  It got enough attention as it was.<br /><br />Anway saidin is cleansed now, so why is Min still reading Fel's books?  What else is there for her to learn from Fel's research?  Or are the books simply Min's own private self-help library <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />


created: 2002-03-22 21:01:42
subject: <b>clearing rubble</b>
body:
I think that due to the nature of Heartstone and the seals, the reamining seals are holding the bore open as much as closed.  In order to heal the bore so it's like the dark one was never free, as Fell mentions when discussing the cycle, the seals would have to be destroyed.  Clear awasy the old rubble before building new.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">What's the point of wearing your favorite rocketship underpants if no one can see them? <br />-Calvin-</font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-28 22:01:57
subject: <b>Must be broken!!!!!</b>
body:
i agree; the seals must be broken in order to reseal the bore.  I also think the taint isnt totally cleansed with some of the seals left. <br /><br />ashaman420 <br /><br />loyal soldier to rand<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> <br />assasin of the shadow and troublesome AS <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bobbafett.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">loyal soldier to rand<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br />asassinator of the shadow &amp; meddling AS<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bobbafett.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /> <br />I am skilled with 2 swords, but I will toast your butt with Saidin in a heartbeat<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/uno.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-08 19:48:42
subject: <b>The DO wants the seals to be broken, right?</b>
body:
Why would tDO want Fel killed if he was going to tell Rand to destroy the seals HOLDING HIM IN HIS PRISON! Wouldn't he want the seals to be broken?<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aiel.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" />lover of ritously sa-da-taed tube steaks<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-05-06 00:00:00
subject: <b>About Fel</b>
body:
I must say that there is a lot of stuffs that sounds odd about Fels death. <br />   First: Why send a gholam? Its not needed. A gray man could have done the job much easier.<br />   Second: How did the dark one know about Fel. That means there have to be spies or darkfriends on Rand schools. Is the dark one planning to use the discoveries for his own?


created: 2001-08-02 01:19:36
subject: <b>If I was a Forsaken I certainly wouldn't send a Gholam after Rand....</b>
body:
There aren't that many Gholam, right?  Well, why would you send one after Rand?  He'd prolly just balefire it, and then you'd be down a Gholam.  Much better to go after the easier meat, right?  Fel would have been a pretty good target, and he wouldn't have been able to fight back.  And now Rand's lost his favorite scholar/philospher-type guy.  'Sides, whoever kills the Dragon Reborn gets to be Nae'blis, right?  Why would the Forsaken want a Gholam to be named Nae'blis?  I think they all want the glory of killing Rand for themselves.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout<br /><br />&quot;It's the owner of the flowerbed<br />She grew roses to hide her brother, dead<br />This is the proof that I must show<br />Watch this tape and you will know&quot;<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-26 15:44:47
subject: <b>To Sharon about balefiring a gholum</b>
body:
He would not be able to balefire the gholum. The weaves would just melt off of him. The one power cannot touch a gholum. The weaves just melt away without any effect, just like on Mat when he is wearing his foxhead necklace.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">DEATH TO ALL CLOWNS.<br />The only good clown is a dead clown.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-05 18:28:02
subject: <b>why hasn't gholam come after rand</b>
body:
	we know that Mat's medalion hurt the gholam in Ebon Dar (sp?) but what if it wastn't the medalion but mat.  We know that gholam are compleatly unnatural to the pattern and probably have some effect on it.  Ta'veren also have an effect on the pattern and might beable to hurt the gholam by focussing it into one object (such as mat's medalion).  Why didn't his knives and spear work too then you may ask.  Well, because the Gholam had beaten a large group of channelers it was obvious to Mat it was not what it seem and probably made with the Power.  Mat's subconscious didn't think his whepons would be any good but he trusted his medalion and used that as a focus point.  Rand's subconscious probably trusts his sword the most (at first his channelings during battle where just to form a sword) which might be leathal to the gholam.  So the forsaken don't want to risk there prcious gholam.  <br /><br />


created: 2001-09-05 18:28:36
subject: <b>why hasn't gholam come after rand</b>
body:
	we know that Mat's medalion hurt the gholam in Ebon Dar (sp?) but what if it wastn't the medalion but mat.  We know that gholam are compleatly unnatural to the pattern and probably have some effect on it.  Ta'veren also have an effect on the pattern and might beable to hurt the gholam by focussing it into one object (such as mat's medalion).  Why didn't his knives and spear work too then you may ask.  Well, because the Gholam had beaten a large group of channelers it was obvious to Mat it was not what it seem and probably made with the Power.  Mat's subconscious didn't think his whepons would be any good but he trusted his medalion and used that as a focus point.  Rand's subconscious probably trusts his sword the most (at first his channelings during battle where just to form a sword) which might be leathal to the gholam.  So the forsaken don't want to risk there prcious gholam.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/frown.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />


created: 2001-09-10 09:50:14
subject: <b>...</b>
body:
No, i thin Mat's medallion hurt the Gholam because they are the same thing, basically anywy. Only something like the Gholam could hurt it, if you get my point.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i><font face="times new roman"><br />But the dogs you say they fed you to<br />Lay their muzzles in your lap<br />And the lions that they led you to<br />Lie down and take a nap</font><br /></i><font face="wingdings"><font color="blue">h</font></font></font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-30 17:12:05
subject: <b>Gholam and the Power</b>
body:
I think that the Gholam draw on the power. The Weaves don't melt off of them but are absorbed by them. The  reason mat's medallion hurt it was because it &quot;killed&quot; the power in that one spot. If a gholam entered a stedding it would probably die.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">MoelBrain: The other MB</font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-08 01:38:49
subject: <b>why the gholom hasn't killed rand</b>
body:
we don't know alot about the gholom justthat there were 6<br />made 3fm 3m and that they can't be hurt by channeling.maybe<br />the female gholom can only kill male channelers and male<br />gholom female channelers and so far theres only been male<br />shown to us.


created: 2002-04-22 08:34:51
subject: <b>Maybe there isn't a Gholam for Rand.</b>
body:
We're kind of deviating from who killed Fel on this thread and why but let me just mention that the current Gholam on the loose survived from the breaking courtesy of a Stasis pod (or whatever they are called). Potentially there are no other Gholam in existance anymore (remember there were only six ever made as far as I can remember).<br /><br />This brings me to my own theory on the Gholam, correct me if I am wrong but of the six Gholam, weren't they 3 male and 3 female. I suspect the Gholam work on the same basis as the difference between Saidin and Saidar. A male gholam is immune to Saidar (we know this for certain), but is it immune to Saidin???? Thus making a male gholam specifically targeted at female channelers and a female gholam would be targeted at male channelers. If the other gholams didn't survive like the one in Ebou Dar then Rand is safe from that angle.


created: 2002-04-22 09:12:40
subject: <b>Doh</b>
body:
Apologies to dedrah sedai, thought I'd read all the posts in this thread....Dunno how I missed yours.<br />Apologies for reiterating what you'd just said.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/frown.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-07-10 23:52:39
subject: <b>Fel is not dead!</b>
body:
I could be wrong but I do not remember that it was actually confirmed Fel. Just a body ripped to shreds in Fel's study.<br />Time will tell.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Ron T. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />&quot;The real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems.&quot;<br /><br />&quot;There can be only one.&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-04-25 12:39:05
subject: <b>Hmm</b>
body:
That is an interesting hypothesis regarding the gholam.  If the males can only be hurt by saidin and the females by saidar then it makes them far better characters in my opinion.  The appearance of the gholam kind of scared me a little bit to be honest.  The existance of a creatue that is immune to the one power and can't apparently be hurt by conventional means AND can squeeze itself through any tiny little hole.....well that just seems a little too powerful to me.<br /><br />It made no sense to me that a forsaken had control of one of these creatures (how that is possible is another question...why would a being this powerful listen to a forsaken who couldn't harm it?) and yet didn't send it out to kill Rand, Mat, Perrin, and whoever else popped up to get in the way of their world conquest plans.  I know that someone (don't know who) sent it after Mat and Nynaeve but it was a half hearted attempt at best.  There has been ample opportunity for it to do it's work but hasn't shown it's face much.  So far I have pretty much looked on the reason there as being the almighty literary &quot;just because&quot;.  It seemed to me that Jordan maybe realized he had introduced a shadow controlled power that was unbalancing in its power and had to therefore limit it's occurence in the books even if he didn't give any real reason.  I mean just how many ways are there to describe some crazy way that the &quot;heroes&quot; escape from this thing that they have no chance of actually beating?<br /><br />If this Gholam chasing Mat atm shows itself to be vulnerable to an asha'man that would bring it back in line balancewise.  If not I am curious to see how Jordan deals with it.  Mat has the only thing so far known to cause it any harm at all and even that is merely a burn....what is he going to do...somehow make the gholam eat the medallion? <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />  The only other possibility I suppose is that his spear which also comes from the foxes can harm it as well....can't remember off the top of my head if that was tried or not but I don't think so.  That would make sense and at least would also make for a good fight that would be believable when Mat won.


created: 2001-06-19 03:19:23
subject: <b>About your theory about Ishamael</b>
body:
In the prologue to &quot;Eye of the World&quot; when Ishamael heals Lews Therin of the taint, he makes reference to a war that &quot;has not lasted ten years, but since the beginning of time. You and I have fought a thousand battles with the Turning of the Wheel.&quot;  Personally, I think Ishamael was a genious (a fine line between genious and madness, yes?) and figured it out the same way Fel did. If the Wheel keeps turing, then obviously Ismamael (or at least his spirit) has met with Lews Therin's spirit in past ages and will again.       <br />As to not wanting the Bore sealed permanentaly, one reason is the all the Chosen who meet him make some comment about Moridin's addiction to Shai'tan's True Power.  He seems to favor it over the One Power and as he is Nae'blis, he is the only one with access to it.  Who would, especially among the Fosaken, want to lose a tactical advantage if the Dark One and his power were sealed away???


created: 2001-08-26 13:30:55
subject: <b>The Prison being sealed</b>
body:
One question. Why would closing the hole made instead of just sealing it cause the Dark One to be permanently sealed away? We already know it has to be fully closed up, because it's fully closed up in the Age of Legends, when a hole is drilled into it. Why would it suddenly be any different?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><b> <i> KLitke7967 </i> </b></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-03 14:49:37
subject: <b>Not closed up...</b>
body:
He wasnt talking about closing the bore... he was talking about remaking and entirely brand new prison.  So, instead of a flawed cover of a hole, it will be entirely new, and hopefully flawless (yet not perfect).<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Mikel Gaidin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lan.gif" border="0" /> <br />Bonded to Aida Sedai<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/nynaeve.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-13 21:53:49
subject: <b>Wheel</b>
body:
My thoughts: By deffinition, the wheel of time has to get back to where it was, or so. The dark one wants to destroy the wheel and remake it the way he thinks it should be. The job of the dragon/dragon reborn and all the other heros is to keep the wheel as we know it going. Actually, come to think of it, that's the dark one's job too, though he probably dosn't want to know it. <br />So, where this is leading is that whether the prison is remade or fixed, it has be broken again next time around. <br /><br />Phi<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Phi<br />taosap!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-10 19:35:10
subject: <b>Sharom</b>
body:
Well, the way I see it, it wouldn't make any difference if Rand resealed the Dark One instead of just patching up the bore. I was under the impression that the Dark One was sealed &quot;outside of the pattern&quot; and away from the world altogether, and that seal that kept him out of the pattern was the Sharom (big spherical thing in Shayol Ghul before the breaking) that Rand saw when he was in Rhuidean seeing the past. So, I figured Rand will simply remake something like the Sharom.


created: 2002-08-21 10:11:41
subject: <b>Nice try, but.....</b>
body:
Though I would like to think the DO will be sealed away forever, the cyclical nature of the wheel will assure that he is not.  The only way this pattern could be broken is if the DO wins and breaks the wheel.  Any sealing-closing-remaking etc of the DO's prison will be only a temporary respite (of thousands of years), and this battle will need to be fought again.<br /><br />Nice idea but I just don't agree with it.<br /><br />Belgaria,<br /><br />A newbie to Wotmania <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/avi.gif" border="0" />


created: 2003-04-03 23:38:36
subject: <b>good theory</b>
body:
It must be something like this.  I mean, RJ wouldn't be writing these novels if there wasn't SOMETHING special about this turning of the wheel.  That's why this theory WILL work, it's b/c Rand will do SOMETHING that will change everything.  Maybe he'll even break the wheel like the DO wants to do and remake it into something great and wondrous.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /> Sancheward <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2004-03-23 11:48:53
subject: <b>i don't think so</b>
body:
if u will search in the discussion with Robert Jordan, u will see a quote from him where he says that this age won't be different than any other. Rand is not going to defeat th DO for once and for all...<br />It would be cool but i don't think so.


created: 2001-07-01 00:32:12
subject: <b>Egwenes dream</b>
body:
she has a dream where rand is walking toward shayol ghul and the seals are breaking under his feet, which supports this theory.


created: 2002-01-25 00:04:16
subject: <b>Wait, Wait, Wait</b>
body:
If the seals keep the taint on saidin, then wouldn't the seals be destroyed on the instant that Rand clensed saidin (Winter's Heart, With the Choedan Kal). And It seems to me That the DO wold strike at Rand the instant he could. (This assuming that when the DO breaks free he will use his connection to the Chosen [Read the Prolouge of The Lord of Chaos]. Don't know, Still developing this paticular theory.)


created: 2001-09-28 17:22:47
subject: <b>Very good</b>
body:
My opinion is very close to yours.  I have an answer as to how Rand will remake the DO's prison in a theory I submitted a few days ago called The Creators Power.  Or something like that.  Hopefully it will get posted soon.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Burasco <br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-24 23:14:12
subject: <b>Resealing</b>
body:
There is only one way to make the seals perfect. It must be a joint effort of Saidin and Saidar. This was made clear by the fact that if the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends had agreed to help Lews Therin seal the prison he wouldn't be able to break free. But they blew him off. The taint probably let him weaken the seals but Saidar would have created a buffer around the taint like it did in Choedan Kal in Winters Heart.


created: 2002-02-14 18:11:22
subject: <b>Sealing the 'hole'</b>
body:
I agree.  I think at the end we'll see an Ashaman/Aes Sedai circle that will 'seal' Shaitan's prison by the use of balefire. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Only by this means can the 'hole' not actually exist when The Wheel of Time begins anew.  It would be a good way for Rand to die <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /> at Tarmon Gaidon and yet live <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> (ala Aviendha, Mat, et. al.).


created: 2002-05-23 10:35:45
subject: <b>how did the dark side know about Fel's theories</b>
body:
I like this theory and I think it is the only one that makes mention of how the dark side had any insight into Fel's<br />theories.<br /><br />The problem is that even if those Aiel you mentioned were shadow runners they were presumably very low down <br />in the darkfriend hierarchy and this raises questions as to how the forsaken learned so quickly of Fel's theories<br />and eliminated hoim via gholam.<br /><br />How about a female chaneller (black) using those Moiraine like weaves to eavesdrop? Rand wouldn't detect<br />Saidar and Fel's thoughts could be escalated quickly. This is even more likely if one of the female forsaken<br />were doing the eavesdropping.<br /><br />What do you guys think?<br /><br />


created: 2003-02-26 12:50:24
subject: <b>belief and order give strength</b>
body:
this line i always thought referred to cuendillar, or specifically to the integrity of the cuendillar seals.  the lord of chaos is coming, and the seals are weakening and breaking.  humans are not at their strongest and look what's happening...these old imperfect seals are what have to be cleared away before all is rebuilt i spects...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;It's ridiculous to suggest that a team could go through a season in our league without losing. It's comical, just comical.&quot; Alex Ferguson 27th September 2002<br /><br />gooner...red and white army...<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gimli.gif" border="0" /> my soulmate<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/clown.gif" border="0" /> my nemesis</font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-18 05:43:50
subject: <b>The Horn and those bound to it...</b>
body:
I just read Book two again (for the Nth time) and i got to thinking how long does it take for you to be bound to the horn... Ingtar might be bound because the horn doesnt see if you were good or bad right? And Rand and Mat and Perrin might be bound to(I got a feeling that Mat is bound but i cant explain why). So if Ingtar might be dead he might show up the next time the horn is blew... I dont know if anybody posted this already... i just want to say this <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Another Twisted Mind <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br />Guess you trollocs were the only twisted ones</font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-09 16:50:26
subject: <b>To another_twisted_mind</b>
body:
I'm not sure, but I think when it said about the horn not distinguishing between good and evil it meant who was blowing the horn and what he was fighting for.  Of course, I could be wrong, but I also don't think Ingtar is even close to Hero material...also I don't think Rand is a Hero of the Horn, although Perrin and Mat might be.  I could be wrong again, but the last time Rand was around was 3000 years ago as LTT, and the Heroes seem to be described as being spun out by the wheel a lot more often than that...


created: 2001-07-03 12:42:36
subject: <b>I think you're on to something...</b>
body:
Think about this...if the DO is released, he will destroy the wheel of time, thus ending the cycle of ages. There will never again be a third age. That means that the DO does not need to still exist, as the wheel is broken. If the pattern no longer needs the DO, he is free to be destroyed! I think this theory has a very good point to it!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Light and darkness in harmony <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> Protecting innocent damsels since 1999 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> The Lone Wolf <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-06 12:20:23
subject: <b>Yes, but...</b>
body:
...when you consider that the Creator created the Dark One (even if only yot imprison him) it would suggest that there is a place for evil or at least latent evil. This means either the DO is imprisoned or dies and is replaced. If he's replaced, who by? Is the Creator grooming Fain? He's remarkably resilient isn't he?


created: 2002-01-04 10:26:37
subject: <b>The Dark One's Imprisonment</b>
body:
I would like to draw your attention to some things said during either TGH or TDR, can't recall which.  In a discussion of portal stones, in which it is being theorized that the worlds they link to are parallel worlds, it is stated, &quot;If the Dark One is freed in one world he is loosed on them all.  And if the Dark One remains imprisoned in one world he is contained in them all.&quot;  This paradox has great connotations to the idea of destroying the Dark One.  Sadly, I can't see exactly how.  I think I may be on to something, but my sleep-starved mind can't figure out what.  If anyone would like to extrapolate on this idea, feel free.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" />Hey, why'd that Tolkien guy copy Robert Jordan?<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-15 20:26:31
subject: <b>I think it's close</b>
body:
I think his discovery was along this line because he already knew how to clean saidin from the redstone doorway in Tear when he asked how to from the snake creatures cause in one of the books it mentions him asking that I'm not sure which one. The clearing the rubble probably has to do with destroying Shadar Logoth or however it is spelled.<br />


created: 2002-09-21 22:19:31
subject: <b>Balance my man</b>
body:
Your theory is rather insightful in all but one point. The theory of balance.  Min Farshaw in Crown of Swords interrupts Rand and Caraline to sound useful with Fel's theory of balance.&quot;  There is no possible way that Rand could kill the Dark One.  He has to exist to define the Creator.  Just as Satan defines God, or Heaven defines Hell.  The balance of the Dark One to the Creator is absolutely necessary in Randland.<br /><br />Thank you for your time.


created: 2001-08-23 18:49:15
subject: <b>Kindaof a paradox there?</b>
body:
Well, let's see...first in your explaination of the rubble.   You seem to imply that Fel implied that he wanted Rand to break the seals.   However, later on, you say Fel wanted Rand alone because he wanted him to STRENGTHEN a seal?   Doesn't that sound a little...off?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Bow to the Donut!!!   <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/ring.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-12-07 12:57:23
subject: <b>Reference to Min</b>
body:
The last part of Fel's letter, &quot;Do not bring girl. Too pretty,&quot; was added by Jordan so that the letter would be kept by Min and eventually Rand would re-read it and work out what it means. <br /><br />I'm not sure what all of it means except for the fact that it seems obvious that the seals need to be broken in order to create a new effective prison for the DO. Also, doesn't a seal break every time Rand and co. achieve something major?


created: 2002-01-04 09:55:34
subject: <b>on that...</b>
body:
could it be that intense battles using the one power around the heartstone seals that occur whenever one is found broken could have something to do with it? or perhaps it IS random, just added pressure on the lightfriends...<br /><br />as for fel, no matter what the message says, it makes sense for the philosopher to be assasinated as he is trying to bring order to chaos, something i doubt the DO would be happy about...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Can you see the line where the water ends?<br />Draws itself off into oblivion...</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-17 23:27:34
subject: <b>Belief and order strengthen the seals</b>
body:
The DO has issued a command for the forsaken to increase the chaos in the world because chos breaks down the seals. Order strengthens them. Fel's message does not refer to the Ashaman. It refers to the seals. It's as simple as that.


created: 2005-05-19 14:44:48
subject: <b>Heartstone</b>
body:
Belief and order give strength...<br />Remember that cuendillar is also called heartstone.  The Age of Legends was an almost Utopian society.  Now the world is in the dark ages again where Chaos is everywhere.  Maybe Belief and Order give strength refers to the cuendiller and they've become weak because of all the chaos in the world.  <br /><br />Is it possible that...<br />Rand needs to unite the people in order to remake the seals?<br />Rand needs to find order and belief in himself to remake the seal?<br /><br />and just to play my own Devils Advocate, if chaos in the world really does cause the seals to crumble then wouldn't the time of Artur Hawkwing also have cause the seals to break?  He faught many wars before uniting the land, and after he died it was chaos again.


created: 2001-05-31 14:00:16
subject: <b>Fel, Elaida, and Nicola</b>
body:
I agree with several of the points of this post. I can relate the 'belief and order give strength' comment to the structures of the White and Black Towers. I think this is also supported by the Nicola's fortelling in Salidar, where she says that 'the guardians balance the servants'. Aes Sedai in the OT means _servants of all_, where one of the translative meanings of Asha'man is guardians.<br /><br />I also agree that Elaida's fortelling isn't as clear and favorable as she seems to think: <br /><br />&quot;The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk it's ground.&quot; <br /><br />It doesn't say that the Aes Sedai are responsible for the blood and fire. In fact, from the Three Oaths, Aes Sedai can't attack Asha'man except in self-defense, unless they make the charge that all Asha'man are Darkfriends, something they couldn't do and still pretend to support the Dragon Reborn. More likely Rand and his personal Asha'man come and tear up the Black Tower, or else there is a show-down between the factions of Logain and Taim, or several Forsaken come by and chew the place up.<br /><br />It is fairly clear that male and female channelers will have to work together to win the Last Battle. Fel had the answer to perfectly sealing the Bore, and Min will solve it in time.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-13 18:38:39
subject: <b>overlooking the obvious...</b>
body:
Aes Sedai are already walking the grounds of the Black Tower. They are the ones sent by Elaida, currently serving their captors. I think the Black Tower will be rent when the factions supporting Taim and Logain collide. Logain will achieve the glory from Min's vision when he overthrows Taim's corrupt hierarchy. Logain will support Rand (he is no longer claiming to be the dragon reborn and has no ambitions for glory, unlike Taim) and will unite the Black Tower firmly behind Rand. The &quot;captured&quot; Aes Sedai and some of the ones sworn to Rand now, will work toward uniting all wielders of the one power now tha the taint has been cleansed.


created: 2001-09-09 13:16:01
subject: <b>sisters will walk its grounds</b>
body:
i dont have it on hand but ive read it a time or ten and it reads; the black tower will be rent in blood and sisters will walk its grounds. just to make it clearer, as said before sisters are walking the grounds of the black tower but i dont think its what elaida had in mind, it also said that it would be rent in blood, it didnt say whos blood. dont read so deep into some things or youll confuse yourself. one part of that fortelling already turned out to mean something other than what she thought so dont count on the other to be any more strait forward.


created: 2002-04-30 10:10:42
subject: <b>&quot;Blood and Fire&quot;</b>
body:
Ok, we know the sisters walk the grounds. There's one part of the Foretelling. About the other part though....<br /><br />Now, chances are, with all of the &quot;weapon training&quot; that;s going on at the Black Tower, fire is being used to tear up the grounds every day. A different explanation is that Taim and his faction will be caught, and set on fire with their heads blowing up or some such event that is the equivalent. <br /><br />Yeah? A possibility?<br /><br /><br />&#8220;Reality is nothing, perception is everything.&#8221;


created: 2002-10-29 23:22:08
subject: <b>pionts of view</b>
body:
just a few comments: not all foretellings are going to come true, the future (even in randland) is not predetermined. Prophiceis and foretellings are more like guidelines that can be translated in many ways, not just literally, and are are usually done after the event has taken place.  <br />1) 'rent in blood' = the traitors tree<br />1a)'rent in blood' = Eliada taking the tower<br />2) 'sisters walk the ground' = the captured aes sedai<br />2a)'sisters walk the ground' = the aes sedai who support<br />              Eliada<br />yes the two towers will have to 'join forces' before tarmon gaidon, the distinction between the two will need to remain, simillar to the symbols on the creullendar(sp), one side is black (but not DARK), the other side is white (but not LIGHT). <br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/avi.gif" border="0" />  sister of veritas  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/elayne.gif" border="0" /> <br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />  lady of honour  <br />          Carri<br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br />


created: 2001-04-20 00:00:00
subject: <b>Rand vs. Logain</b>
body:
In response to Rand being shielded by six tower Aes' Sedai in Carhien remember that there were fifteen Aes' Sedai not six in the room.  It took the total thirteen to shield and two to bind him with air.  Logain is still as powerful as before.  Weaker than Rand.


created: 2001-07-13 01:10:50
subject: <b>And......</b>
body:
Throughout the journey they all took turns shielding him. So if a sister wearied, all she had to do was step aside while another sister took her place.


created: 2001-07-17 13:51:25
subject: <b>What if</b>
body:
What if this was the lesson that Cadsuanne is going to teach the Ashaman, that they can reach their full ability by being gentled and healed.<br /><br />Nevermind, Cadsuanne is an Old Aes Sedai, and therefore likely is of the opinion that stilling can't be healed.<br /><br />Sorry for the ramble.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> AOBtD <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> AOBtD <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />It`s frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to ask you the questions.<br /><br />Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-24 01:19:43
subject: <b>Men and women...</b>
body:
&quot;The greatest works of the age of legends had men and women working side by side...&quot;<br />What if the saidar link in the saidin gap actually makes the bond stronger? A combination of both powers is stronger than either power alone. So...perhaps the &quot;bridge&quot; of saidar actually makes a man STRONGER than his full potential actually was?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Light and darkness in harmony <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> Protecting innocent damsels since 1999 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> The Lone Wolf <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-20 18:27:07
subject: <b>Why Gentle</b>
body:
What if the link can be strenghtened *without* the Asha'Man being Gentled in precedence? This would have to be a different weave altogether, but there is no reason why the Saidar part shouldn't be able to fit into the link without it being severed, especially if it is actually able to put it back together, so the elements of the link should be compatible enough to do so. This would also be in accordance with a different theory that states taht the link to Saidin is actually made of Saidar. Also, shouldn't it be possible to do the opposite for Aes Sedai?


created: 2002-02-07 16:18:56
subject: <b>One problem...</b>
body:
Already, Asha'man die like flies in winter because they try to reach their potential too quickly...would this not increase the chance of death in this manner?


created: 2002-02-20 19:56:50
subject: <b>Saidar is not filling the gap</b>
body:
There was a Hole where Nynaeve could 'feel' something was missing.  Saidar healed Logain's severing or 'cut' but there is no Saidar in residence in Logain right now unless he's bein kinkier with those Aes Sedai he has tied to him than I thought.  Neat thought huh? Sex tricks with the OP oh yeah.  Sorry bout that, just came out and I had to bring it up. peace.<br /><br />Nimvin<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br />I rock.


created: 2002-04-09 05:02:23
subject: <b>Something to think about</b>
body:
Remember that what Aes Sedai believe they can claim as truth and it doesn't affect the oath.  That being said, how the heck would Moiraine know how strong Logain is when she was off hunting rand during his brief claim to fame?  I think Logain was the same srength as ever, or why wouldn't we hear the same sort of stuff from the sisters that Flinn healed in WH?


created: 2002-05-03 12:49:03
subject: <b>yeah one thing though</b>
body:
i agree that is what happened. but I do not think that they should do that. Having power and knowing how to use it are different things. At the beginning of the series Moiraine was weeker than egewene but she was more powerful because she knew what to do. Strength increases gradually so that it keeps the errors that someone can do at a minimum.<br /><br />When the ashaman were learning and that one guy blew up the rock but did not get his shield up in time, He could have instead blow the whole middle of the farm apart.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The Swedish Destroyer                            <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rand.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/perrin.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" />  (<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /> = me)<br />    (i am invisible in the books)<br />PS. Remember the scene in TGH where Lan<br />and Rand are fighting and a wind pushes Rand.<br />That was me, I tripped, sorry, My bad<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-20 10:11:48
subject: <b>Sorry to burst your bubble</b>
body:
Logain was always very strong:<br />LoC To Heal Again<br />&quot;Siuan twisted around to face her, but she included Nynaeve as well, 'I went by Logain's house. Six sisters are maintaining his shield, the same as when we captured' ... So he's as strong as he ever was, or else close enough to make no difference&quot;<br /><br />BTW, the reason the Aes Sedai can switch around while maintaing the weave is quite simple:<br />1) People can't constantly try to break a shield, it is too tiring.<br />2) maintaining the weave is simpler than creating it


created: 2002-07-16 18:36:43
subject: <b>Interesting thought...</b>
body:
however, just because Logain was ALMOST able to break the weave held by 6 sisters, and Rand was held by the same...<br /><br />Well, isn't the strength of the weave directly related to the strength of the sisters who maintain it?  That being said, the sisters weren't the same as the ones who shielded Rand, so it is entirely possible that they weren't as strong.  Plus, you also have to remember that only ONE of the AS is in control of the weave at any moment, so if that particular sister is not as talented at shielding... you get the point.<br /><br />On the other hand, it your theory IS very possible.  That would make for interesting events in the coming books, and I am very curious to see if you are right.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">****Fortune for a Quarter... I LOVE Quarters!****<br /><br />****Give me a quarter and I'll tell you your fortune****</font><p></p>


created: 2004-03-03 02:24:48
subject: <b>6 Aes Sedai</b>
body:
If I remember right, Rand stated in LoC that the 6 was a minimum to hold any man after originally shielded.  Therefore, Logain doesn't necessarily have to be as powerful or weaker than Rand.  It's just an old knowledge to maintain the shield with 6 b/c that's all that is needed.<br />I mean, really, just because Logain was shielded with 6 and Rand was shielded with 6 doesn't give a good estimation of the strength of either of them.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;The reason I won't tell people though is that I am enjoying watching them squirm entirely too much.&quot; - Robert Jordan</font><p></p>


created: 2004-07-29 14:47:02
subject: <b>Rands stronger</b>
body:
If you remember correctly Rand was initially shielded by the full circle of 13 and he was still almost able to break the shield. That in its self is a token to his power that has probably not yet reached its full potential seeing how power in saidin makes random jumps of considerable size rather than gradually growing..<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Be very careful when you stare into the flame...<br />For the flame will also stare back at you..</font><p></p>


created: 2005-03-06 20:17:16
subject: <b>Interesting...</b>
body:
This might be so, but since being able to heal severing is so new, no one has had a chance to study it, and we don't know what other effects it might have.


created: 2005-07-23 21:33:26
subject: <b>To Runeknight</b>
body:
the only way Rand could almost break the shield of 13 was cause of his fat-little-man angreal.<br /><br />Cool Theory.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The Great Gonzales<br />Captain of the DF Rebellion against Moridin<br />Demandred for Nae'blis!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-04-04 00:00:00
subject: <b>First one to post here...</b>
body:
Ok... now calm down a little... <img src="images/tongue.gif" /><p>Now back to the topic. First, Stilling and Gentling is the same thing and probably done about the same. The difference in the name comes from the perception of the current female Aes Sedai. While losing the ability to channel Saidar is somewhat a curse, they gave it a name with a negative connotation, while a male losing the ability to channel would be a cure from the oncoming madness, thus 'gentling' them.<br />The true difference would lay in between Stilling/Gentling vs. Burned out. (I wonder if that could be curable???)</p><p>Also by the post-WH reading, we now know that to have an efficient healing, the healer must be of the opposite sex. Nyn kicked a$$ when healing Logain, but Leane and Siuan didn't even have a third of their former power.<br />Then, in far away Cairhien, Damer (I think) healed A.S. that were stilled during the Battle of Dumai's Well. If I remember correctly, it was Cadsuane who mentionned that they regained their former strenght in the power.</p><p>I hereby rest my case.</p><p><img src="images/devil.gif" /> Catch ya all later <img src="images/aessedai.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aiel.gif" border="0" /> He Who Comes With The Oosquai <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Crazy Frenchman Extraordinaire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> Unbonded Blademaster of the Spoon <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-blue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Proud poster of the &quot;Slayer Killed Asmo&quot; theory <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /></font></p><p></p>


created: 2001-06-14 11:04:07
subject: <b>Fire and Earth</b>
body:
I wonder if it has to do with the way they are healed, Nynaeve healed Logain using Fire and Earth, the areas in which males are usually stronger. Maybe if a female was healed using Air and Water she would also regain her full strength


created: 2001-10-20 18:19:35
subject: <b>Burning out</b>
body:
As far as i know, Stilling/Gentling is a Spirit weave, formed as a temporary shield, excetp less temporary (wasn't this thing done to one of the black Ajah - Joyia Amico it was, don't know which book). This weave shouldn't be too flexible in its form for the gender, and it would be quite inconvenient since it is possible that this has to be done very quickly in case of a battle. There has been no evidence that points that it's a different thing, and the glossary in the books says that gentling in case of woman is *called* stilling, which would indicate it's just a different name. Burning Out should be different, because it's not a weave altogether, but rather irrepairable damage done to the link between the channeler and the One Source. If this link is to be imagined as a conduit, maybe the flow of the One Power damages it constantly, and burning out occurs when the damage exceeds a certain limit. It sould be imagined as some sort of cable being sawed at, that falls down when sawed through completely. Except that in this case the conduit regenerates itself in time, by something that can be compared to gravity. The link is severed when the ends are too far to attract themselves. In the case of Stilling/Gentling, this would be accompanied by cutting the link off at a distance (virtual, just try to imagine this), so that the ends would not reach and part of the link it would have to be constructed anew, with the opposite sex using the more appropriate powers for the link. Whileas in the case of Burning Out, the link is cut off at just one place and not too cleanly, so to heal it it should suffice to bring the loose ends together and let them regenerate.


created: 2002-03-02 09:55:21
subject: <b>Re: In Reference to Healing Stilling and Gentling</b>
body:
since aparently ntneave healed logain to full strength but siuan and leane came up short, then flinn heals the tower AS to aparently full strenth(since they didn't mention otherwise) but hasn't had the opportunity to heal a Asha'Man yet... with this info i've always felt that saidar and saidin being opposites that it would appear that saidar would be needed to fully restore saidin and vice versa...<br /><br />it all falls in line with the general theme so far in that using saidar and saidin together is the most potent way to utilize the OP... they are two halves of the same thing, they are interdependent...


created: 2001-06-27 13:16:23
subject: <b>Flinn</b>
body:
In WH, Damar has Healed one of those Burned out Reds COMPLETLY.<br />As to wether it needs specific weaves: Nynaeve used all the weaves when she did. It is more likely that the Male way of healing is needed. The Male way probably needs Fire (when Flinn Healed Rand, I think Rand felt warmth) but it is also a philosophy. As females HAVE to use Water to stop a flame, men HAVE to use Fire to absorb it etc. There are other things like the way they Travel.<br />If women must use the Power in a different way, it is unlikely women can do what Flinn did.<br />BTW, I think the way the unStilling was mentioned was too low key. After all, we know Moiriane is going to need it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;We wont give a fig,<br /> We'll tell you to,<br /> Go stick your head in a pig!&quot;<br />  The Sirius Cybernetics Customer Services Helpline - Share and Enjoy!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-07-30 00:58:55
subject: <b>All I can say is....</b>
body:
Duh!!!!!<br /><br />I'm pretty sure everyone already figured that out long ago!  I'm suprised anyone would even think to post it. On the other hand, I agree with you <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />


created: 2005-03-06 20:14:10
subject: <b>Makes complete sense</b>
body:
This makes complete sense. Saidin and Saidar have always as been betrayed as opposites, this is just a continuation of that point.


created: 2001-06-26 19:11:35
subject: <b>If my theory ever gets posted</b>
body:
Hey I personally don't think the Healing has much to do with how it was woven, but more about whos doing the weaving.  I sent in a theotry that hasn't been posted yet comparing The healing of Severing to the cleansing of saidin. Perhaps the best resistance (like in electricity) can only be achieved when the conductor is made of the opposite power.  A bridge of saidar would be more effective to contain saidin than a weave of saidar and a weave of saidin would be most effective to contain saidar.  However after writing all this, i perhaps could add that alongside usiong the opposite power it has to do with how that power is used.  Men bore a hole with saidin because if the tried to do it the other way they would harm themselves because saidin doesn't work that way.  Oh and by the way i think the boring a hole through a stone wasa figure of speech refering to Nynaeves power usage and not her actual weave<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Where did these Skimmers come from?  I mean if they didn't want to read the book they could have just Traveled to another author.  Why risk arriving at the wrong destination?  Why risk falling into darkness?</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-30 00:13:12
subject: <b><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></b>
body:
I never thought of it that way! I assumed it just took saidin to heal a stilling and saidar to heal a gentling, but you do bring up a very good point. Darn! And I just thought I was sooooo smart!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />


created: 2001-08-11 17:25:28
subject: <b>Nice!</b>
body:
/me nods<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-20 19:05:50
subject: <b>Oh Really?</b>
body:
Maybe that is the way to do it, but the real question is, *can* female channelers do it. Even if it wasn't a description of the amount of power, which i can't say, since the book hasn't been published in my country yet, women can't Travel the way that men do, nor can they do other thing that way (putting out a fire is a very good example). Even if this theory on healing is right, it wouldn't empower women to heal this way.


created: 2002-09-28 20:24:31
subject: <b>Good theory</b>
body:
I like this theory, but remember - nobody knew about making the pattern identical because this was before Egwene rediscovered how a woman Travels.


created: 2003-02-10 14:22:36
subject: <b>men Heal women, and women Heal men.</b>
body:
I was looking through this and have to agree with Onarishma with that idea. I wasn't too sure why Suian and Leane weren't restored to full strength but Logain was after Nyneave Healed them. But when Flinn healed the women stilled by Rand escaping from the chest, and it's says 'it's like nothing happened to them', I started to figure women have to Heal men and men have to Heal women. The differences in the power (as used with the cleansing of Saidin) appear that they would make better bridges to contain the opposite Power, and close over the &quot;gap&quot;.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><br /><i><font face="book antiqua">On an island where no one lives,<br />We build a treehouse together.</font></i><br /><font color="white">-----</font></font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-12 12:52:31
subject: <b>I would agree with you but...</b>
body:
In an interview with RJ someone did ask about the taint and whether or not the madness could be reversed.  He was quoted in saying that if the taint was removed the subject's taint that he obtained could not be removed.  I think the interview is in the www wheel of time links in the interview with CNN(?)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Jeffron <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br />DM Warder <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />When I was a child, before my<br />mind was under the constraints<br />of knowledge<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" />, I could predict<br />events that had not yet occurred.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/oh.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-14 16:25:44
subject: <b>Can the One Power Cleanse the Taint?</b>
body:
I wouldn't be too sure of the one power's ability to remove the taint from a person.  Case in point, Ishmael seemed to heal LTT with the True Power, although that may be a weak argument, because he seems to use that for just about every little thing.  Still, it may be more similar to those black bands protecting the male Forsaken than anything-the madness comes from the DO, it may take his power to remove it.


created: 2002-02-08 15:59:08
subject: <b>I agree with you. . . .</b>
body:
I agree simply becuase I think not healing the taint would leave part of the story untold.  I think it would leave to much of the story as an unknown.  Although this could be a good reason to countinue the saga in a new series. . . . .<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> &quot;Yes Forsaken,&quot; Moiraine said, her voice as cold as deep-winter ice. &quot;Past time!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Heroes are the people who do what has to be done, when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.<br /><br />     -Silverlight<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-27 01:15:59
subject: <b>Well, I like the basic idea of the theory but.....</b>
body:
It's a pretty plausible theory that you have put together here, but....WHY MUST IT BE NYNAVE THAT DOES IT!!!! I know that you did not say that she would be the one to do it outright, but you implied as much. I mean, really. The other Sisters didn't even think of using fire and earth for Healing and so now they can do more and I think Nyn should just be shoved into a closet and forgotten for the rest of the series. No one likes her with her constant braid pulling and excessive sniffing (at least i dont think anyone likes her <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />) I like the idea of the madness being healed though.<br /><br /><br />&#8220;Reality is nothing, perception is everything.&#8221;<br />&#8220;Sometimes that's all life is, one desperate act after another.&#8221;<br />&#8220;When outnumbered and cornered you have but one option left... you must attack.&#8221;


created: 2002-07-26 14:03:26
subject: <b>Cadsuane has the key.</b>
body:
I don't recall at what point in the series, there were several actually, where Min saw that Cadsuane had something to teach the men who could channel saidin.  That they &quot;had to learn it&quot; and that they definitely wouldn't like it.  I think that, since Cadsuane is a legend walking, and she has been around for so long, that she has already found a way to cure the madness.  This is what she has to teach the men of the Black Tower &amp; Rand.  The reason they won't like it, is because she is so demanding of respect, that it's a blow to the their egos.  They are tired and ashamed of their &quot;sickness&quot; and this will bring it out in the open, for all to learn of.  The men needing help from a woman.<br /><br />I think that also, I'm digressing here so forgive me, that Cadsuane will have to teach Rand how to laugh again before the Last Battle.  She's stated this several times, usually in a sorrowful demenour.  As I've read in the series, if Rand doesn't learn how to laugh soon, he will just be as bad as the Dark One.<br /><br />Digressing more...I think Rand is acting like a big baby right now.  I also think Cadsuane needs to stop playing with Rand's mind so much.  Of course, she's doing it because he has his nose so high up in the air, he can't see where he needs to go next.  Rand needs to get off of his high horse &amp; treat Cadsuane &amp; others with the respect that they deserve, and Cadsuane needs to treat Rand with the respect that he deserves.


created: 2002-08-06 07:20:20
subject: <b>Cured for a moment.... I think he did cure Lews Therin</b>
body:
So, here's my take on what happened. The True Power unlike the OP does not have technical probloems, and perhaps works with imagination. He wanted Lews Therin to be healed and so he was. Thus Lews Therin was not insane. Unfortuantely, Lews Therin being the same level of glook as Rand al'Thor, couldn't tolerate what had happened, and blew his now repaired mental circuitry <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> Seriously the disgust of having such pathetic goodies....<br /><br />As for curing it, the fact that people go mad at various rates, and people like Logain somehow manage to escape the madness, and that there are differing rates(even from Rand's own experiences in possible worlds, most likely there is a way to avoid going mad to begin with. Possibly a mental issue. Like relaxed people falling sick less often.<br /><br />I doubt that they are going to come up with a way to heal the madness though.<br /><br />I also suspect that something or the other will lead to the eternally stupid Rand(possibly his bondeds dying), going mad. And breaking the world.(Maybe with the Choedan Kal, and merged with the mind of Lews Therin and perhaps his older selves.... wonderful)


created: 2002-08-28 16:21:58
subject: <b>One glaring problem with this.</b>
body:
By the words Ishamael spoke when he cured Lews Therin of the taint-induced madness, I believe it was not the One Power Ishamael used.<br /><br />It was the True Power.  Ishamael specifically said, after all, that the Dark One &quot;could also heal&quot; ...<br /><br />Therefor, while the Taint can be removed (how else would the Male forsaken remain sane), it does not stand that it can be done with the One Power.<br /><br />MAYBE it can be dealt with.  Maybe not.


created: 2002-12-15 04:36:45
subject: <b>Hey, if the Dark can do it...</b>
body:
...then the Light can too.<br /><br />Remember <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The lateness has come to the thrashing.<br /><br />Visit www.aww-mud.org and click Telnet.</font><p></p>


created: 2002-12-29 13:54:30
subject: <b>But I thought...</b>
body:
I thought Ishamael used the True Power to Heal Lews Therins madness, and from the voice in Rands head, that wasn't permanent.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;Life is not tried it is merely survived if  you're standing outside the fire.&quot;<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Kwestfall06 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-01-01 22:57:39
subject: <b>any thing short of death should be able to be healed</b>
body:
I belive that Semhriage mentioned that she had been one of the most skilled healers of the age of legends and had a particular tallent for sicknesses of the mind. so it is entirely possible that maddness could be cured whether it will happen or not is realy the question.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /> ITS TIME TO TOSS THE DICE <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Seine sovya caba'donde ain dovienya<br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-03-09 16:26:51
subject: <b>Nyneave Rocks!</b>
body:
I think Cadsuane will heal Rand by riding him of paranoia and rehumanizing him.  This is beacuse the madness may be like other mental diseases may be curalbe by reversing the simptons. Rand is definetly already insane.  Just read EotW then CoT and you'll see what I mean.  Ged this story has nothing to with evil chickens and only has one severe sadist so keep the rest of &quot;The Sword of Truth&quot; out.  And Nyneave is awsome so leave her alone.  She has strong leadership qualitys and thinks outside the box.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Forever<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/nynaeve.gif" border="0" /> Rocks<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> The true gods <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bela.gif" border="0" />


created: 2006-07-07 06:21:22
subject: <b>Sisters in AoL...</b>
body:
&quot;A pity for you that one of your Sisters is not here&quot; (tEoTW Prologue, Dragonmount) This is stated by Ishamael in direct conjunction to the taint. Even if something can only be cured for a few moments by the OP, that would seem to suggest that a permanent cure would be possible.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Egwene must die.<br />Rand Al'Thor will face her wrath...<br />And laugh in her face!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-31 21:33:46
subject: <b>Ummmm....</b>
body:
Uh...the taint has been cleansed, so we don't really need to worry about the taint anymore, but it would be a good theory if the taint was still there though. Oh well, thanks for playing<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />j/k<br />Good theory <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" />=<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> True Power is knowing that you can, but you don't. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-red.gif" border="0" /> -Deathbone1 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-green.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Current rank in Wse PTS: 164 out of top 1000 (7/8/03)<br />We are men of action. Lies do not become us.<br />Life finds a way.<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-14 09:07:48
subject: <b>In addition to being cleansed</b>
body:
What if the weave Nynaeve made didn't work as a bridge, but instead simply tied the two &quot;threads&quot; together? I mean; Logain -| gap |- The source. So instead of the thing that you actually say; Logain -|-bridge-|- the source, it could be like; Logain -(tied together)- the source. If you read through the books after he got healed (I've skimmed through it just to check this out), RJ doesn't say anywhere that Logains strength has weakened after the healing. Siuan Sanche's strength though, is really weak compared to what it once was...<br /><br />Conclusion: Maybe the healing Nynaeve performed worked perfectly for men, but not for women? We don't really have any answers to any of the theories until RJ says it himself. I mean, most of the theories posted are after all just &quot;wild&quot; shots in the air hoping to hit something. What is so weird about all this is that i.e. Moridin = Ishamael, we don't know this even if it is a lot of things speaking for it - Moridin could be a new person that has lived since the AoL outside Randland in a place where time doesn't move, etc. We never know with RJ's books... (That's what makes them so good!)


created: 2002-07-16 04:49:31
subject: <b>Partial healing</b>
body:
Being severed can be Healed as we see, and it just gets the victim the ability to chanel back. It is not a saidar bridge, just the ability given back.<br />Besides, the only flaw is that, a male can only be completely be healed by a female, and a female can be completely healed by a male. A female healing a female gives only a partial ability.<br />And... Only Logain has been healed, on the male side, as far as we know, and the taint is removed from Saidin. Why should it be important if that healing blocks the taint ?<br />


created: 2002-12-15 03:28:52
subject: <b>I agree with the above comment</b>
body:
Yeah, I've also been thinking that Severing can only be Healed completely by the opposite sex of the Severed person. I believe this is kind of a reference by RJ to common sexual tension and the need for harmony between males and females, which may or may not tie into the White and Black Towers cooperating....<br /><br /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Fire, <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Water, <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Earth, <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Air, <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Spirit...<br />   With your powers combined, I am the Creator!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The lateness has come to the thrashing.<br /><br />Visit www.aww-mud.org and click Telnet.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-04-14 00:00:00
subject: <b>- Dragons Are From Shara?, Or maybe not?</b>
body:
The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign. The seas rage, and the stormclouds gather unseen Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom. What was exalted cast down, what was cast down is raised up. Order burns to clear his path." <p><br />This could simply mean that Rand does a lot of conquering with the old Aes Sedai sign, the teardropdragons fang. The seas rage; a lot of activity from Seanchan, in other words, the Return of the High Kings heirs.. <br />"hidden fires swell" could mean that there would be a lot of sceming in Seanchan, or elsewhere, trying to gain support for the crystal throne, surviving whitecloaks, shaido,  or maybe the forsaken. The serpent is also a symbol of time itself, or so i seen to recall.<br />"What was exalted cast down, what was cast down is raised up. Order burns to clear his path." This could simply mean the fall of the crystal throne and the blood, and the rise of the aes sedai, or damane. </p><p>During these changes, fires or war ravage the lands, in the name of the dragon reborn.. (in the same manner as we see with the prophet)</p><p>Of course, this is just a theory. I do not mean to discredit  Dragons Are From Shara theory, but merely offer a ifferent point of view. Also, if dragons were from Shara, how come they haven't been seen by the aiel. Surely, they should be able to move around a little in order to be dangerous. I think that they are legendary creatures, like dragons in our world. (Based upon extinct animals, perhaps..)</p><p></p>


created: 2001-06-19 07:03:10
subject: <b>seancha and dragons</b>
body:
I don't believe live dragons will ever come to play in the story. Well.. Seanchan very nearly rides dragons (raken,isn't that what they're called?), but I don't think that's what it means. <br />But.. there certinly are some strange creatures over in  Shara, and if Noal is Jain Farstride, he wouldn't be lying bout beeing in Shara, and the things he saw..<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i><br /><br />Some times nothin' is a real cool hand.</i></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-11 17:09:24
subject: <b>Worlds of If</b>
body:
When Rand went to that other world didn't he see dragons in the sky? Or something like that?  And what about the ground being burned the way it was?  Dosn't this sugest that maybe dragons will play some roll in the future?<br /><br /><br />~Jove~<br />~Tormenter of Seaguls~<br />~Newbe of the Plaid Ajah~<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/borg.gif" border="0" />  Existence is Futile!  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/borg.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The Light is Bright, there for I look into it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Asmodean:  You!  No! <br />Rhuarc:  Oh.  Sorry.  Sometimes I forget to wear pants. <br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-27 13:37:39
subject: <b>Seanchan fits just as well</b>
body:
Seanchan is over the horizen, the fires could be from Damane and Sul'dam, and the serpents could refer to raken, To'raken, or even some of their grounded monsters.  Ohterwise a good theory.


created: 2001-09-03 10:22:03
subject: <b>Jordan' world.</b>
body:
The thing about robert Jordan's fantasy world is that there are no elves, dwarf, wizards (in the conventional sense), no mythological creatures from ancient history, and certanly not crearures like mighty firebreathing dragons. in my opinion, they wouldn't fit in. Then again, that's just my opinion.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i><font face="times new roman"><br />But the dogs you say they fed you to<br />Lay their muzzles in your lap<br />And the lions that they led you to<br />Lie down and take a nap</font><br /></i><font face="wingdings"><font color="blue">h</font></font></font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-05 21:24:49
subject: <b>Dragons</b>
body:
Rakens are close enough to dragons that RJ could put dragons in. And dragons do describe thouse things in the other world as well. And it would be cool if something really big came into the books like that for all the talk of these exotic worrior creaters the Seanchan have then never use them exept for the Raken. I don't remember ever reading one of those things being used in battle.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> Master of Wolves <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> King of Fire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Weilder of Balefire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br />      Maldais <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-05 15:39:56
subject: <b>serpents nestle in the bosom</b>
body:
I think this is a reference, not to dragons really, but an obscure reference to the way the Aes Sedai (Nynaeve, Egwene, &amp; Elayne, too) hide their rings on necklaces.  How many times in the story do they talk about the ring that's nestled in the bosom?  Alot.  I will say though that I am truly curious as to why Lews Therin was called the Dragon, and where the idea for the Dragon came from.  If every legend were true in the WoT at some point, he didn't just dream up a dragon one day.  I'd really like to see if he explains why the dragon is such a key point to the story.


created: 2002-02-16 03:35:02
subject: <b>Dragons are a myth.....</b>
body:
I don't think that dragons actually exist in the WOT world... I think that they are just mythological creatures representing power and mystery,  and the reason LTT and Rand can have the title Dragon without there actually being real dragons is because the dragon is such a well known symbol... look how popular dragons are in our world and last time I checked there weren't any flying around...<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /> Walk in the Light <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-02-26 00:01:25
subject: <b>Tuon and Mat</b>
body:
If Mat convinces Tuon that Rand is not meant to serve the crystal throne, then maybe Tuon would believe herself the seachan are to serve Rand. In that case the Raken would then be under his control and go from fighting him to bowing to him.


created: 2002-06-21 13:52:25
subject: <b>Flying dragons?</b>
body:
Correct me if I'm mistaken but aren't the dragons shown on the dragon banner Chinese Dragon. Which in any other fantasy wouldn't even be categorized as a Dragon. Unless the Flag visible on the cover of the Path of Daggers is ommitting wings, Fires of Heaven cannot be from Randland Dragons because they (it) do(es) not fly.


created: 2002-09-02 04:24:59
subject: <b>just a thought</b>
body:
Although the person who wrote this says that shara is the place that holds mystery, there is still the Isle of Madmen, and still the blight still holds secrets yet unknown. the dragons that could have existed could be the jumara in their full adult form, or perhaps simply a large lizard ((called a dragon because of it shape when compared to things from myth eg. Kimodo Dragons)) from either Shara or the Isle of Madmen....


created: 2002-11-20 17:44:08
subject: <b>I believe...</b>
body:
I believe that this line &quot;Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom&quot; doesn't mean anything about dragons. More as in the lines of The Horizon may be Shayol Gaul (spelling?). And The Serpents to be the darkfriends, forsaken, and other shadow spawn. It makes more since then dragons popping up when as one of the others said this being the first mystical creature to pop up in the series.


created: 2002-12-10 00:22:34
subject: <b>Classical History</b>
body:
&quot;serpents nestle in the bosom&quot; could also have mythological reference to Cleopatra killing herself.. the death of royal lines. Egypt was the last Greek state to come under Roman conquest. If you look as classical history, the Greeks colonized Italy, then Italy, the Romans, conquered the Greek...<br /><br />Randland set out to colonize across the Aryth Ocean, and now we have the Seanchen coming back to claim what was lost. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The wisdom of Pevin<br />  Bannerman to the Lord Dragon, may his memory rest in peace</font><p></p>


created: 2003-02-02 19:39:38
subject: <b>quite possible</b>
body:
I think there are dragons in Shara.  Perhaps they were all over the world in AoL, how can people come up with a name and accurate description that is so widely accepted without having seen it?  Also, there are skeletons of creatures that no one has seen or remembers in that room in the capitol of Tarabon, was it? from the aol, so why couldnt there be dragons too?


created: 2003-09-13 03:15:40
subject: <b>The Fires of Heaven</b>
body:
I thought that the fires of heaven prophecy referred to Rahvin's attack on Rand and Co. after they arrived in Camelyn.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Dinkle Donkle, Dinkle Donkle<br />Someone's calling you.<br />GOULET!<br /><br /><b> <font color="C11B17"> <br />Yvonne</font> APPROVED! </b></font><p></p>


created: 2008-04-26 08:18:37
subject: <b>Nope</b>
body:
To begin with, I shudn't really read these posts as I am not one of the academics<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br />Well, here it is. The Dragon on Lews Therins banner (logically all other Dragons in WoT, as RJ would not go so low that he copies TWO mythological species) are a Chinese dragon. Chinese dragons (Asian dragons) Can Not Fly. Simple as that. Read lots of omgdragonspwnlet'scopyallotherfantasy    therories lately, hope I am posting on the one that's reffering to Fires of Heaven..<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br />The only way that a Lews Therin Telamon bannerdragon could wreak havoc and fire from the skies is if Rand made a giant trampoline that the dragon could bounce on.. and somehow I do not think that will happen.


created: 2001-06-11 00:08:23
subject: <b>gunpowder</b>
body:
I think gunpowder will come into this.  Remember that Aludra asked Mat why she would need a bellfounder?  To build a cannon of course!  This will at least bring heavy artillery into the story, if not proper rifles and other assorted guns.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">cynic79</font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-24 11:23:01
subject: <b>Dragon legends</b>
body:
I strongly doubt there will ever be any real dragons in the series.. What's more, dragon legends are from all over the world, it is not something exclusive to asian myth, just a common thread. On the other hand, if you mean the dragon design that the dragon banner holds, then that is a somewhat more asian dragon, yes.


created: 2002-04-11 14:18:06
subject: <b>dragons</b>
body:
I've heard a lot about dragons coming from China.  I would like to clarify that not all dragon origins or from china.  The anchent celt often used my types of dragons.  Although many are not what we think of as dragons. They were a varied beast and each one held aspecial power to the celts.  The dragon as many Americans see it comes from these dragons combined, where as the dragons in the WoT do resemble the Chines dragon.  I just wanted to make a point that all dragons are not of Chinese influance.


created: 2002-12-31 00:01:12
subject: <b>Shara will conquer in the Fourth Age</b>
body:
From the enormous amount of work Jordan put into the construction of the WOT universe, and his keen sense of history, I would say that he is saving Shara for the Fourth Age.  Think about it - according to the Lord of Chaos and the Guide, they've been inbreeding their channelers for most of the Third Age.  No matter what Seanchan, the Aiel, and Randland (Land of the Madmen may be a wild card) do they can't match the power of artificial selection.  Just look what such techniques did to corn and the cow?


created: 2003-08-16 23:25:20
subject: <b>Wait a Minute.</b>
body:
Hold on. If Shara = China, what does the mainland equal? How did you get Europe from curved swords and dragons that look like snakes with claws? (Yeah, believe it or not, Callandor is curved; look in Winter's Heart, ch. 35, p.740, paperback ed. I don't care what the artist depicts on the Dragon Reborn's cover. Robert Jordan didn't draw the picture, but he did write the book.) How about the serpentine blades of Saldea? Seanchan have oriental armor. Face it. RJ's world is no Europe, whether you like it or not.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">We rode on the winds of the rising storm,<br />We ran to the sounds of the thunder.<br />We danced among the lightning bolts,<br />and tore the world assunder</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-02 23:04:07
subject: <b>One thing..</b>
body:
There had to be dragons at one point or another during the  spinning of the wheel. otherwise how would people now about them. By this I mean, the flag with the dragon on it and the Title The dragon. Im not sure if there are dragons around at all during the last few ages but Im pretty sure that at one time or another there were dragons.


created: 2001-06-03 14:41:01
subject: <b>So, about these dragons...</b>
body:
If dragons have to exist somewhere in Randland, based on the argument that someone had to have seen a dragon sometime to come up with them, then that same argument must be valid in the real world too. And if for dragons, then for trolls, and hobgoblins, and elves, right? I mean, we have fairly complete descriptions of these creatures, so they must be real. Hmmm...<br /><br />As for dragons in Shara, I can't say it's not going to happen, but there are people to have been inside Shara who might have noticed if there were dragons. Graendal took several &quot;pets&quot; from Shara, and from the royal family. If there were dragons to see, it would be quite likely she would have seen them. Having a reason to mention them is another issue, one that none of us can answer yet. But based on how things have gone up to now, I'm leaning toward no dragons. Just a man with a daunting title, the Dragon Reborn.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-29 00:11:38
subject: <b>Dragons found by the Drangon?</b>
body:
Just a thought, but maybe part of the Sharan prophecies of the Dragon will include Rand finding actual dragons.  I don't have anything to back this up, but if the dragons are there then Rand has to have something to do with them.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Thou shalt not have any fun to speak of, ever, because God loves you.  Lies.9.13<br /><br />Sin being everything that feels good.  Romans.22.7</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-05 09:51:12
subject: <b>sorry it`s rubbish</b>
body:
i have to say right now that real dragons flying about shara is total rubbish and just wishful thinking , BUT what about he men with faces in their stomachs who live under the mountains which we`ve heard about several times from jain farstrider and a few merchants that mat`s met ??????????????hmmmmmmmmmmmm<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Pastor of the church of the probable opinions <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" />  marked with the dreaded LVIII  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" />  bearer of the monolith  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Irish man of good Celtic stock <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> ready to answer the call of the horn <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /> Fourth Letter Telamon <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-03 09:52:17
subject: <b>Dragon Bones</b>
body:
What city was it that Elayne visited while dream walking (when she first met Amys) that she was in tanachico something and she saw the bones of a huge beast...like a dinasouar, but maybe it was bones of a dragon.  <br />I don't know if I believe that whole dragon theory, becasue then it will not be an original book and only cheapen the effect if Rand can control dragons or something...another Melenie Rawn book anyone?<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" />,<br />AC<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;I could die for you, but I couldn't and wouldn't live for you&quot;--Ayn Rand 'The Fountainhead'<br /> <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Philosopher of the Ages <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> Master of Time Wasting <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> One Who Does Nothing At Work <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-17 11:48:36
subject: <b>maybe</b>
body:
maybe the reason no one has seen them is that their sleep is supernatural, or maybe in superlarge stasis boxes<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><font face="old english text mt"><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />  Lord Avatar Darkstorm <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />  King of the Morning   <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />  Prince of the Day     <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />  He Who Rules the Night<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font> <br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-23 11:06:53
subject: <b>Dragons don't fly</b>
body:
Dependant upon RJs point of view the dragons may not even fly.  Thus the reason for Sharas high walls<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> They call me the Fireman <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-07 17:45:51
subject: <b>maybe</b>
body:
theres flamin truth in your theory but then theres the bloody lies.first of all i think dragons do exist maybe not in shara but some where else because how in the bloody ashes do they get the bloody name dragon maybe they flamin exist in another flamin world.good bloody job though.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Cusser of words.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> Killer of flamin darkfriends.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /><br />    Uno1<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/uno.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-06-24 17:55:18
subject: <b>I always wondered...</b>
body:
I always wondered what &quot;The Nine Rods of Dominion&quot; were, maybe they have something to do with Dragons.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Ron T. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />&quot;The real world as in dreams, nothing is quite what it seems.&quot;<br /><br />&quot;There can be only one.&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-11-06 07:36:53
subject: <b>The Dragons find Rand...</b>
body:
It has always been my theory that the Dragons will awaken with the coming of the Dragon Reborn. Maybe from Shara where they are bound to sleep until the Dragon is Reborn. Maybe from the clouds(not very likely but it could happen), or maybe from the ocean. <br />Another thought about the whereabouts of the Dragons, is that they were created by the Forsaken during the Age of Legends, and have lain dormant since then. The Blight seems a good place to hide them, let them sleep til Tarmon Gai'Don. Joining Rand during the Last Battle at a crucial point.<br />Just a few thoughts i had i wanted to get down. Feel free to disagree with me.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Bodyguard to the Creator, Franco Columbo <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> Destroyer of Trollocs <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> Wielder of Callandor's twin brother, Kallandor <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /> Seeier of all <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" /> The Divine Dragon <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br />Couchrunning! It'll move you.</font><p></p>


created: 2002-12-24 08:18:07
subject: <b>Well...</b>
body:
If you think about just because no one has seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. We had never even heard of Raken or the other Seachan beasts until we were introduced to the fact that the Seachan existed at all. They could possibly be somewhere undicovered or in a different world.(portal stone)


created: 2003-04-15 22:05:05
subject: <b>Dragons are real</b>
body:
Ok people Uno is back. First how can someone create a whole beast without seeing some bloody thing that looks like what they describe. Archaeologist describe Dinasours as being &quot;Dragon&quot; i dont know about Chinease dragons roaming the flamin sky but i do believe there are beast within Shara that we have yet to look upon.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Cusser of words.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> Killer of flamin darkfriends.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /><br />    Uno1<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/uno.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-04-17 09:14:05
subject: <b>Not quite yet</b>
body:
I think that dragons may come to serve the Dragon, i didnt research from the book but i say this in the theory and it got me thinking<br />&quot;Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth,&quot;<br />The storms rumbling beyond the horizon could refer to the dragons all flying west to give aid to rand in his time of need. Also, the fires of heaven purging the earth could be a reference to the dragonfire doing terrible damage to the land. <br />Just a thought, see what you think.


created: 2007-07-18 14:55:39
subject: <b>Dragonsssssss</b>
body:
heres a thought. <br />On Earth, the mythology of Dragon was created from men around the Biblical Era when dinosaurs were still alive. The Dragons like on the banner and Rands arms are mere artists renderings who have never seen them. thus these dragons might only be dinosaurs, and as to why they don't wander, as we know Sharans most likely keep watch on their borders so no one ever gets out, there could be a prophecy or some reason why they would not allow the dinosaurs out. and if flying dinosaurs exist its possible that Sharans tamed certain kinds? i mean Seanchan tamed grolm, raken, and elephants. And as for how Sharan ports have high walls, how would they build them so high as its told? no ogier to help them, so they most likely had major beasts of burden? like tamed dinosaurs (dragons) eh?<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> Shara is actually inhabited by bannanas <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /> The Band of the Red Hand is made of Ninjas like Mat<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br />Narg+Bela= Nela!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/w00t.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> ;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bela.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-27 14:08:32
subject: <b>what shara means in middle easten languages</b>
body:
hebrew (she is) singing.<br />arabic dripped/ bad deed / war , fight / youth eexcitement / bought / sold<br />they sount like a people of war.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">i'm bored</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-27 14:34:44
subject: <b>No</b>
body:
RJ has said Shara will never be visited. Maybe we will visit Seanchan for a scene, and even the Land of Madmen (RJ has said RAFO so we may well see that place)<br />Shara will only ever be met in rumours. Look RJ has said the world will not be perfect at the end. In fact I am SURE that there will be a civil war at the end and Rand will return to his 3 wives and it will seem as if there will be a next book where he sorts it out. BUT THAT WILL ACTUALL BE THE LAST SCENE EVER!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;We wont give a fig,<br /> We'll tell you to,<br /> Go stick your head in a pig!&quot;<br />  The Sirius Cybernetics Customer Services Helpline - Share and Enjoy!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-12 03:35:45
subject: <b>Awwwwwwwwww</b>
body:
We have already seen Seanchan in the Far Snows Dance, but that is not what I wanted to post.<br /><br />I have no liking for theories who are based on what happens in stories RJ have taken inspiration from, in my mind, theories must be based on real facts from WoT. If the other was the case, I could say Moiraine would come back alive because [LOTR SPOILER!!]Gandalf came back. We all know Moiraine resembles Gandalf to a high degree, but this is not why I think Moiraine is alive.[/LOTR SPOILER!!]<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-18 21:43:46
subject: <b>Just a couple thoughts...</b>
body:
First off, i'd be rather dissapointed if we didn't see any more of Shara than we already have been exposed to.  I think it sounds a very place...secondly, the author of this theory has made some very interesting connections.  Just thought i'd drop a couple thoughts =)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aiel.gif" border="0" />     Asha'Twan     <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />To use no way as way, to have no limitations as limitiation.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />Lee Jun Fan<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-19 01:49:25
subject: <b>Good</b>
body:
I am glad to see a theory that actually had some academic value to it.  I commend you on your ability to combine several different mythologies from the middle east - personally, I would have gotten to confused because I am not familiar with the histories of that region.  Good work.


created: 2002-10-24 14:44:53
subject: <b>sea monsters</b>
body:
My guess is that the dragons in Shara are like sea monsters, which was like the Levithian.  That would explain the walls around Sharan towns along the sea, and why the Aiel don't talk about dragons coming over the Aiel Waste.  Pretty good deductions about the middle eastern stuff.


created: 2003-04-27 10:22:29
subject: <b>In Reply To Mjasghar</b>
body:
Shara me never be visited but theres no stopping the flamin Sharans coming to Rand. I do think we will be going to the Land Of The Madmen soon.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Cusser of words.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> Killer of flamin darkfriends.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /><br />    Uno1<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/uno.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-11-25 09:16:21
subject: <b>Etymologies</b>
body:
I think it's a bit tenuous, but it is certainly an interesting proposal.  I do think, though, that there are some more likely etymologies for &quot;Shara&quot; than semitic words for 'goat':<br /><br />1) Perhaps related to the Latin/Greek &quot;Sares&quot; or &quot;Seres&quot;, which was what the Ancients (and Medievals) called China.  Given all the other connections between Shara &amp; China in the books, this seems probable.<br /><br />2) Perhaps from &quot;Sahara&quot;?  This is, I admit, orthographically closer.  It would also provide some support to your proposed connection, seeing that the Caliphate also controlled North Africa for a good portion of Western history.  (By the way, I do like your connection between the Ummayyad caliphs and the Sharan Ayyad.  I hadn't thought of that.)<br /><br />We have seen elsewhere that Jordan connects his geography to our own historical/legendary geography - e.g., Ilium(=Troy) and Illian.  Why not do the same for Shara?<br /><br />(On a side note, and I honestly just thought of this, perhaps there is a connection between Tear and Tyre?  In a certain respect, it might make the 'historicity' of his geography a bit more accurate: Shara/China in the Far East, Ilium/Illian and Tear/Tyre both seaports, and relatively close to each other....  But this is total speculation, and there seems to be little else to connect the Tairens with the Phoenicians).<br /><br />Anyway, I seem to have drifted a bit from my main point.  I don't really know much about Canaanite mythology; Classical (Greco-Roman) myth and Medieval stuff are more my thing.  If anyone has any suggestions about geography &amp; etymology from other areas of world culture &amp; legend, I'd be interested to hear them.  If not, I'd probably learn towards option (1) above.<br /><br />My apologies for being long-winded.  I hope I haven't been too boring.


created: 2004-02-27 15:40:58
subject: <b>*rubs head confused*</b>
body:
Well, if i remember (and I'm sure I do) the ENTIRE WORLD must be behind Rand when he battles the DO... So I think this could work out... wheeloftimefan<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Just another post by<br />SN J-Whitt USN<br /><br />http://www.nationstates.net/whitt-ville</font><p></p>


created: 2005-02-20 12:30:37
subject: <b>eh, perrin? eh...</b>
body:
If someone had to, i guess hes a good candidate as any... kinda late for shara.... isnt it?<br /><br />to Boaz, are you sure shara is 'she sings' in hebrew? I know a bit, and that doesnt sound familiar... of course, i only know a bit, I might be wrong. I once saw someone say that &quot;ba'alzamon&quot; means 'evil, satan,' in hebrew, but i KNOW thats not true...<br /><br />I forgot who said this, but to whoever mentioned going to the land of madmen: what could possibly happen? if i remember what i read this morning (see signature, not quite done with Guide) The Land of Madmen is a desolate land, freaquently subject to volcanoes, storms, etc. what could possibly be of importance there? there are certainly easier places to go to if someone wanted to hide... I dont really think the land of madmen has any purpose. very little.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">-Sabin<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2005-08-03 09:44:41
subject: <b>Madmen island</b>
body:
TO BOAZ...COURTESY OF THE BWB, SOMEWHERE ABOUT THE SEAFOLK MENTIONS THAT SOME SEAFOLK HAVE VISITED THE ISLAND. (sorry bout da caps)The seafolk stories say that the people there are primative like they haven't recovered from the breaking. So yea...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><br />&lt;--iKandy--&gt;</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-11 17:14:41
subject: <b>Here there be Dragons</b>
body:
Maybe dragons were only a myth in the age of legends. Ever think about that?<br /><br /><br />~jove~<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/borg.gif" border="0" />  Existence is Futile!  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/borg.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The Light is Bright, there for I look into it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Asmodean:  You!  No! <br />Rhuarc:  Oh.  Sorry.  Sometimes I forget to wear pants. <br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-24 15:07:14
subject: <b>Maybe...</b>
body:
&quot;...Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again...&quot;<br /><br />If dragons were just a myth when the banner was made, that means that dragons DID exist a few ages ago. But what ARE dragons? Perhaps that is what worms were ment to become, or perhaps where worms came from, in some twisted expiriment by Aginor.<br /><br />_//Worm\_ - Big Monster thing that lives in the blight, supposedly the &quot;larval&quot; stage of some creature... encounterd by Rand and friends in EotW (Eye of the World)<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" /> -=OSAN-GAR=- <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">___________________<br />Evilmonkey<br /><br /><i>&quot;Madness waits for some. It creeps up on others.&quot;</i><br />-Lews Therin Telamon</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-08 15:53:34
subject: <b>Not necessarily...</b>
body:
....Just because Dragons could have been mythical back in the Age of Legends is no real reason to think that they existed in a prior age. They may be like Dragons of earth, mythical from the git go. Perhaps in the Age of Legends Dragons were a really popular mythical figure, and Lews Therin being so tough was likened to a Dragon.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-05 06:53:27
subject: <b>Wait a minute...</b>
body:
Who ever said dragons are mythical in real life?  They could have been remenant evolved dinosaurs that survived whatever killed off the rest of them.  True the &quot;breathing fire&quot; bit was almost certainly mythical, but almost every culture in the world has some legend of a dragon of some kind.  I mean, Europe has them, the East (China, Japan and Korea) definitely have them, the ancient Aztecs tell of &quot;giant feathered serpents&quot;, African tribes have dragon legends, it's ubiquitous.  In my opinion, that is too large of a coincidence to not have some fact behind it.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" />   Lord WolvenBlood   <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" />   Lord of the Rings BLOWS <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bela.gif" border="0" />   My Harley is named Bela <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bela.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" />   Moiraine is dead, get on with life <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-01-15 21:47:10
subject: <b>Dragons cycle with the wheel</b>
body:
Maybe they were legends in the AoL and now only excist on the tattoos from Rhuidean, but that could just be because they only excist in a certain age.  The age that could come next... It could be a technological reference.  Maybe they build dragons that are sencient creatures, oh wait that was a really weird Michael Swanwick book.


created: 2002-01-18 06:31:52
subject: <b>Worms, anyone?</b>
body:
Just to clear up something, as far as I can remeber, the Worms in the Blight are the larval stage of something called Jumara - what that is I have no idea. I think that in LoC, two Forsaken are talking (or one is musing) that thte Worms will never mature in Jumara. Could be right about the creatures being mutated dragons, however, thats assuming that Aginor actually got his hands on one!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> even in order there is chaos <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">In Chaos there rises Order, but even in Order there is Chaos</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-24 10:00:14
subject: <b>No dragons</b>
body:
OK while I thin it would be very cool to have dragons in WOT, they don't exist. Robert Jordan has said so.  Secondly the point about someone having to have seen one to make the dragon banner, nope don't think so, we never had them here on earth and we came up with them all on our own so could the people of WOT.


created: 2002-03-06 18:37:31
subject: <b>Before AoL</b>
body:
What about the time *before* the age of Legends? I'm sure there are ages before that, and probably ages before that...


created: 2002-12-30 17:34:47
subject: <b>Maybe they were/are constructs</b>
body:
...like the Nym, this could explain why they aren't widespread and have possibly died out, in the 3rd Age, AOL or previously.


created: 2003-01-27 01:24:03
subject: <b>Prove it</b>
body:
KinslayX you wrote: &quot;...we never had them here on earth...&quot;.<br /><br />Prove it.<br /><br />Just because we have no proof of something, does not mean that it doesn't exist.<br /><br />We did not always know about and have proof of gravity. Does that mean that before then, gravity didn't exist?<br /><br />We didn't always believe that the Earth revolved around the sun. So does that mean before that discovery, the Sun and the rest of the Universe revolved around the Earth?<br /><br />Of course not.<br /><br />There are so many legends/myths/stories about dragons from all around the world, it is very difficult to believe that there isn't at least SOME truth behind them.


created: 2001-07-11 17:17:26
subject: <b>Well.....</b>
body:
Maybe its not to keep the dragons out but to keep them in.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />~Jove~<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/borg.gif" border="0" />  Existence is Futile!  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/borg.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The Light is Bright, there for I look into it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Asmodean:  You!  No! <br />Rhuarc:  Oh.  Sorry.  Sometimes I forget to wear pants. <br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-02 18:49:22
subject: <b>China Dragons</b>
body:
You see people think that just becasue that the dragon didn't have wings that it mean it can't fly. I happen to know about chinese myth and what not and their wingless dragons can very much fly. However, they mostly reside in the water and fly when they need too or just plan old hibernate. Anyway back to the point, the dragons reegardless of they are wingless, in Chinese Myth they can still fly, using what power i don't know but they could. Maybe the dragon in RJ books can fly using the one power but reside in the water of Shara?


created: 2001-09-28 17:48:58
subject: <b>Dragons IN Shara</b>
body:
This is just a thought on the Dragons in Shara post, in response to LLT's post. He mentioned that the high walls of the trade outposts of Shara are to keep the dragons out. I have no problem with that. But what occured to me is that if we have not seen Dragons in the narative yet, it may be because the walls of Shara are in place to keep the dragons IN. Yes? It is possible. RJ is a tricky bitch...you never know. Just another reason Book 10 should be titled RAFO!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Shadowman <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-03-05 23:23:55
subject: <b>!</b>
body:
Look at all this talk about Shara. Our curiosity is overflowing with this place. RJ! We wanna see something about the place <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/shy.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-03-27 17:17:31
subject: <b>very doubtful</b>
body:
I base this decision on the fact that towards the end of the series, one of the forsaken thinks briefly of shara.  this is where we find out how they use male channellers as breeders, and how the ruler dies every seven years of &quot;natural causes&quot; and that women channellers actually run the empire.  During the whole thought process, dragons didn't come up.  I would think that a land where dragons roam around would be of some note.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" />&quot;TSOROVAN MISAIN YE&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" />Arcane Invoker<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" />Member of the Shadow Council<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-24 12:20:48
subject: <b>hmmm... maybe</b>
body:
No offence, but this theory doesnt make much sense.  Dragons in Shara?  The Aiel would say things about them.  Most likely dragons were destroyed in the Breaking of the World; thats why there is no record of them anywhere.  The palace in Tanchico has friezes and skeletons of extinct creatures; dragons were probably part of this.  The walls were most definately for trade, so outsiders dont see into the city.


created: 2001-08-26 14:35:04
subject: <b>Hmmm</b>
body:
I think that RJ has said that no action will take place in/from Shara.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-03 00:57:26
subject: <b>I agree with the above comment</b>
body:
I can't remember where, but it was mentioned that the War was wageing all over the world and that the battle in randland is only the most important battle of an even larger confrontation that is taking place in shara..seanchan, everywhere.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Burasco <br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-19 11:09:52
subject: <b>think about it!</b>
body:
doesn't anyone remember that the ability to channel is of the soul??!?!?! we haven't been culling it they have all just been sitting around waiting to be discovered i mean why would you send out an all powerful channeler when NOTHING IS HAPPENING? now makes a good choice for sending the beefliest channelers ever into the world.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I am Dalindor! Monk of many large evil thing butt woopings!!!!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-26 13:19:45
subject: <b>Channelers in America?</b>
body:
So if interbreeding produces strong channelers (Shara, 2 Rivers), let's apply that to &quot;Real Life.&quot; And for the sake of saving space <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" />  why don't we go ahead and shorten that to &quot;inbreeding.&quot;  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br /><br />  Ye gods! West Virginia must be a virtual hotbed of the world's strongest channelers!!!!<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Long Live Taimandred! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sammy.gif" border="0" /><br />Cybrmnk <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> -One of the last remaining believers in the Taimandred theory.</font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-05 23:18:39
subject: <b>The power of the Sharan Channelers...</b>
body:
These channelers are obviously quite powerful channelers. But, they live a life of captivity. It has been stated that they are &quot;the true power in Shara&quot;, so why don't they just take over? They can obliterate anyone in their way. I think the future for the Sharan Channelers is bright, indeed! As for the rest of Shara, who knows?<br /><br />~Eve Al'Azaya of the White Ajah<br />~Third heir to the throne of Arad Doman


created: 2002-06-24 00:41:04
subject: <b>Culling is a Theory</b>
body:
That the Aes Sedai are culling the power is just a theory in Randland. I have always thought that the pattern didn't need strong channelers so none were released. With the return of the Dragon Reborn strong channerlers would be needed so they were released.<br />Even if the culling theory was right I doubt that they would have &quot;powers that would impress even the Forsaken&quot;.


created: 2002-10-24 11:26:22
subject: <b>Shara</b>
body:
I think it is a little too late in the story to add any main characters that can channel, especially from a place that we haven't seen much about.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />The brian dead master of sleep.......<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/thom.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-12-20 14:58:09
subject: <b>I think the logic is flawed</b>
body:
While there is some basis to say that channelers probably have a higher chance for their offspring to<br />be able to channel, I really think you are conjuring new ideas to claim that they would necessarily be stronger.<br />Look to your own argument, Nynaeve, Rand, Egwene, Elayne.  None of these individuals, who are as you say<br />some of the strongest in centuries had relatives strong in the power.  I think it is just flawed to base the whole<br />strength in the power idea to genetics.  Breeding in Shara may keep the power more common, that might lead a<br />greater abundance of individuals who are strong, merely by percentage ratios, but it really doesn't have anything to<br />do with two parents who can channel having a child who is strong.


created: 2002-12-30 17:21:11
subject: <b>I agree</b>
body:
I agree with this theory, makes a lot of sense to me.<br /><br />I even once posted something related to this on the wot newsgroup, although it was concentrated more on their impact in TGD than rebuilding afterwards. But of course, I'm still completely impartial.


created: 2004-03-14 20:23:04
subject: <b>Would be great but ...</b>
body:
I really would like Shara to play a great part in what's gonna happen (they seem to be way cooler and more interesting than the Seanchan) and some of what you say is probably true,but we know that Graendal has a 'leader' of Shara among her slaves so if she went there, she surely saw some channelers,and if they were great,with more power or Lost Talents  she would have told it to some of the Forsaken,we woud know about it.<br /><br />cqfd<br />


created: 2004-08-13 22:52:16
subject: <b>wrong</b>
body:
i disagree that the sharans actually have such a pure bloodline. do we know that two channeling parents even have a child that can channel. (morgase could channel and she only has one of two channeling childern; soriela's grandson can't channel) and since the channelers in shara can only have a kid with another channeler (else the child is &quot;exposed to the elements&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> there is a chance that the sharans that can channel are actually channel are very few and far between.


created: 2005-02-20 12:09:38
subject: <b>50-50 on this one...</b>
body:
I agree Shara must have stronger channelers than western places, but its unlikely Shara will play any large role, if any at all, in the end of the series. There's just not enough time. if there happen to be 2 or 3...hundred... more books, we can at least finish ONE of the plot lines... i hope....<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">-Sabin<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2007-08-20 12:50:27
subject: <b>Coming back several years later..</b>
body:
i agree with &quot;Logain is me&quot; <br />although its possible channeling is genetic, i think it much more likely the wheel spins out channelers in various strengths as needed.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">-Sabin<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2008-02-28 14:57:08
subject: <b>Sharan channellers</b>
body:
This is a fascinating theory.  I must admit I have waited for more mention of them, especially since the arrival of Noal (Jain Farstrider) Charin.  <br /><br />It would be interesting to see the stuffy, stodgy Aes Sedai dealing with an entire society of &quot;wilders&quot;, male and female, with the males not even allowed to learn how to read!<br /><br />However, it is certainly possible that they are as aware of prophecies and events as anyone else, and if they have indeed honed their abilities and held to the old Talents, they could be a force to be reckoned with, depending on where their loyalties lie.  What if they are all Darkfriends?


created: 2008-10-18 08:04:44
subject: <b>your not thinking</b>
body:
If the peaples of shara had all these new talents the forsaken would know.Think about it,the forsaken are in with the Dark Lord and i am pretty sure he knows all the tricks.If the peaple of shara engage in the last battle there will be good and bad, the same as the rest of the world.<br />  And then there is the dragon? In our society we use many mediphors to describe peaple,leaders of all sorts,Hitler was described as the devil himself.<br />   I think that it is nothing more than a mediphore,a symbol to encite fear in the heart of an enemy and nothing more.And here is why. If a dragon exist I would think the dark lord created it ,like morgoth in the Silmarillion, Rand has gotten no schooling[ that i can remember] in transfiguration so he isnt changing.I just thik that RJ would keep things mundane to a point,such as real animals that bleed and die and not mystical power filled animals from another demention that rand controls.But I have been wrong befor so we will see..


created: 2001-04-14 00:00:00
subject: <b>Verin... A Lightfriend? Hmm..</b>
body:
Well, let's not forget the fact that the creator does not interfer with life in Randland.. <br />Those people you mention have an important part in the pattern, (like Nynaeve and Egwene, according to Moraine) that can explain a lot of the arguments..  <p>However, i haven't thought a lot about your theory or this reply, but i'm not saying that it is impossible.. as you all know, the Creator, Robert Jordan can interfere as he will.. </p><p>by the way, how do you spell interfer?</p>


created: 2001-05-07 14:06:41
subject: <b>Loony Verin</b>
body:
Verin can't be ta'veren for one reason: Siuan has the talent of seeing ta'veren and did not see it with Verin during the first meeting with the 3 boys at Lord Agelmar's.  For another theory related to this, check out the Loony Verin Theory at www.stonedog.org.<br /><br />As for the creator not touching the world, every Aes Sadai says how much has been lost from the past, that some  talents have been lost or almost lost: foretelling (Min), producing an'greal (Elayne), dreaming (Egwene) and yet all these talents are resurfacing with the kids.  One should not be able to find The Green Man but once if at all, yet Moraine found him twice.  Cleansing the taint was said to be impossible, yet it has been done.  Perhaps communication with the Creator can be acheived through specific means.  And perhaps a very old Brown just might be the only one who knows how any more.  Only the great RJ can say. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-01-31 10:29:17
subject: <b>She's either really loyal to the Dragon reborn</b>
body:
. . .but not necessarily to Rand himself, or she's Semirhage (I doubt that, though).  <br /><br />Verin is still the biggest head-scratcher for me.  One minute from the next I think she's just what she appears and RJ is teasing us, or a darkfriend, or a hero bound to the Horn (who just happened to be alive right now).<br /><br />Darkfriend?  Well, all those Red Ajah she compelled to swear to Rand probably won't help him with getting the Aes Sedai on his team.  She may very well be &quot;spreading chaos&quot;.  <br /><br />Hero of the Horn:  Well, she was at Falme.<br /><br />I guess when it comes to Verin, I have no idea, and almost anything is possible.


created: 2002-05-01 05:01:56
subject: <b>Verin.......Hmmmm</b>
body:
Is Verin a lightfriend? An agent of the Creator? I don't know. It could be that she is just a wildcard thrown in by Jordan to do things that need done, and to throw us fans off and keep us guessing! <br />What I do believe is that Verin and Cadsuane are very strong personalities who have their own ideas on how to get the Dragon to the final battle in relatively one piece, and will not let ANYbody stand in the way of that goal, regardless of who he or she may be.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Tai'Shar Preussen!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" /> Der Ritter des Lichtes  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> Lord Protector of the Lady B.Alicia <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-04-18 09:56:10
subject: <b>There are no Lightfriends</b>
body:
I like Verin(though she's a little creepy), but I don't believe in Lightfriends. It's evil to have a secret society with that much power, b/c all you need to do is have one double agent or one other person deciding to switch sides. That's my two cents worth. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />


created: 2005-07-09 12:57:14
subject: <b>too many problems</b>
body:
verin obviously took the 3 oaths, or at least some oaths, on the oath rod, becuase she has an ageless face. she is not ta'veren because some aes sedai have the Talent of seeing ta'veren, and we've heard nothing about it from anyone. the reason she knows so much is that she is a brown. in case you've forgotten, browns seek knowledge. since im writing this 4 years after this theory was posted, nobody's ever going to read it probably, but i had to say something.


created: 2001-08-02 19:50:37
subject: <b>Fourth Oath</b>
body:
I think Verin is one of the good guys, however I think she probably just found out how to remove the oaths.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-31 11:39:33
subject: <b>Conflicting Oaths</b>
body:
Seems like we found out that in the event of conflicting oaths (&quot;I will say no word that is untrue&quot; vs. &quot;I will say an untrue word if needed&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> the swearer experiences extreme physical stress, perhaps even to death.  A fourth oath may or may not be a possibility, but I cannot believe that a fourth oath could be sworn that would allow a previous oath to be broken.  The previous oath would have to be removed (as in the case of the BA member that was uncovered), and new oaths sworn.  It could be that the &quot;I will say no word that is untrue&quot; oath was removed and replaced with &quot;I will say no word that is untrue providing that the truth will not compromise the existance of X&quot;.<br /><br />Interesting idea, regardless. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" />


created: 2001-11-05 20:47:02
subject: <b>Nice Idea but no</b>
body:
I like your Idea about a Secret Ajah to help Rand, and i think in a way it exicts, but not offecaly or concidered an ajah. Susian and Moraine have dedacated there lives to help Rand (kinda like your secret ajah but not an ajah). When Verin found out she became a part of it. If it was an ajah that existed befor hand Susian and Moraine would have been in it and not been mad when Verin figured out that they were helping Rand.  Therefor the three of them are close to an ajah of there own but not quite.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> Master of Wolves <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> King of Fire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Weilder of Balefire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br />      Maldais <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-12-03 19:07:11
subject: <b>No 4th Oath</b>
body:
There can be no 4th oath that lets you break the others when necessary - remeber the problem of Conflicting Oaths?<br />Anyone trying to do something that they were bound to do when it disagreed with another binding rule would result in them falling to the ground, maybe unable to breathe, or channel.


created: 2001-12-06 04:51:11
subject: <b>Supporting evidence</b>
body:
The theory about the LightFriends is very very nice , and the fourth oaths they need to take might explain something that i still had no answer for: In the Great Hunt Verin says that Moiriane sent her , while at the end of the book Moiriane says she did no such thing. Perhaps Verin could lie because of that oath.


created: 2002-08-24 01:29:21
subject: <b>what Verin said</b>
body:
was to Intgar. Moiriane said she did not send Verin to shepard rand. Which she didn't. She sent her to watch over Intgar whom she knew was a Darkfriend.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Thinking of things for sig's is hard</font><p></p>


created: 2003-01-10 13:01:30
subject: <b>I agree</b>
body:
I think that this is a good idea...whether or not you want to call it an Ajah, I think there are a group that are more educated about the Last Battle and have found a way to beat the Oath Rod.


created: 2003-04-10 10:59:24
subject: <b>I may be off in lest field, but . . .</b>
body:
Could this 'secret ajah' possibly be anything like the Green?  They are dedicated to winning the Last Battle, and several have sworn to the Dragon already.  It seems logical that this 'secret ajah' could be a core of especially dedicated Greens.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Brianne Aes Sedai, First Weaver of the Yellow Ajah<br />Bonded to Daniel Gaidin<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />High Priestess of academic theories<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" />Amyrlin Seat of the Wheel of Time Club in Oklahoma City<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> <br />'Helluo librorum'<br />'Bene legere saecla vincere.' <br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-05-22 13:20:29
subject: <b>Hate to break it to you..</b>
body:
but your so called secret Ajah isn't really a secret. It's called the Blue Ajah basically. Blues are known for taking up causes, but, thoguh their main goal is never  blatantly spelled out, it eseems to me their role in the world is that of guiding the dragon Reborn.<br /><br />Reds would anturally consider that territory as well though, and there explains the conflcit between Reds and Blues and why whern the twoer splits Reds and Blues split almsot 100% to either side. That's where Moiraine and Siuan came in also, way abck when. No I think Verin's on her own on this one.


created: 2003-09-02 17:12:04
subject: <b>secret ajah, eh?...</b>
body:
I like this idea.  The Black Ajah has existed almost since the White Tower was founded, but the general opinion among the Sisters is that it doesn't exist.  It seems likely to me that there are Sisters that accept the existence of the black ajah and would likely band together to fight against it.


created: 2004-05-25 15:55:14
subject: <b>Absolutely!</b>
body:
There is definatly a secret society in addition to the black ajah in the tower as book 10 indicates. Not only has Suain noticed a strangepattern in the age of sitters in the Salidar tower, but it was also noticed in the Elida tower... Also- Egwene's kidnapping at the end of book 10 seemed odd- it could be the tower, but would Jordan make it so boring- i think not.<br />SO- what are the secret societies aims? I'm thinking unity of tower above all, there seems to be communication between the two towers if the same disparity occured in both their sitters elections. And while i would like to think thy are pro- RAnd, one would imagine they would have foiled the kidnapping if so. <br />ALSO- the oath rod need not hinder their protection, BUT they would have to have a way to screen black sisters to ensure secrecy, as the blacks know about all other ajah secrets, which suggests efficient use of the oath rod- intersting that the Elida tower sitters knew immediatly what the 2 sisters needed the oath rod for, and none seemed to doubt the outcome... think they had used that tactic before?<br />Just a few thoughts


created: 2005-03-05 21:36:07
subject: <b>Compulsion is not forbidden by the Oaths</b>
body:
There is no Oath that prevents sisters from using compulsion on each other. Only tower law forbides it. Saying that Verin must have done something to alter the Oaths because she used compulsion is like sayig that Moiraine did the same bacause she used balefire.


created: 2001-10-21 06:22:56
subject: <b>Verin as behind the scenes operator</b>
body:
She is probably the best player in the game...Cadsuane is a legend but everybody kmows this, and it effectively reduces her influence on Rand, in terms of subtlety...Sorilea is Aiel, but can't really do much about Rand...Moiraine is 'dead' for the meantime, and that can rather strictly limit her actions!<br /><br />


created: 2002-03-12 18:27:48
subject: <b>Enough with Lightfriends</b>
body:
The only lightfriends are Mesaana's horde, their are no other organizations closer to being lightfriends.<br /><br />


created: 2003-04-18 09:58:13
subject: <b>STOP</b>
body:
The only &quot;Lightfriends&quot; are Whitecloaks. After all, Asunawa is the &quot;Hand of the Light.&quot;


created: 2001-05-02 00:00:00
subject: <b>Hrm, remember the Well, or is it Alamo?</b>
body:
If you remember in Winter's Heart the Ter'angrel called a well, I believe that Verin has one such tool.<br />-Rawin


created: 2001-07-31 16:04:04
subject: <b>~Sigh~</b>
body:
How many times will this come up?  You don't need to Channel to tell that someone has no soul.  Sheriam did it in the White Tower in tDR, and Slayer mentioned the same thing in WH.  But I guess some people still haven't made the connection...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><b>- the Wanderer</b><br />he who does not suffer fools kindly  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-06-03 01:00:22
subject: <b>I am with the Wanderer in this one</b>
body:
I think people are making assumptions that aren't reasonable. She could tell just by touch and didn't have to channel.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I love animated smilies<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-07-25 07:26:39
subject: <b>My idea of how she knew he is empty</b>
body:
Right. Since Verin is Aes Sedai, everyone is led to believe that she did channel inside that stedding. Although there are evidences that shows she is worth suspecting. My idea of how she know the ogier was &quot;empty inside&quot; is that the Ogier is physically empty within the body, and can be felt just by normal touching. Remember the Black Wind does torture its victim in a very horrible way. This may be one of them, as in eating all the inside body parts first, then as it was about to finish all of the poor ogier off, he escaped. Thus, the Ogier lived.


created: 2003-05-14 23:12:30
subject: <b>...</b>
body:
The Elders knew about what you felt when touching Trayal.<br /><br />Answer me this: If you 'have to use the One Power' to do this, can Ogier Elders channel all of a sudden?<br /><br />Err.. no.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Lissa M. Rose<br /><br />&quot;Bring out your dead!&quot;<br /><br />&quot;You don't frighten us, English pig-dog! Go and boil your bottoms, son of a silly person. I blow my nose on you, so-called Arthur-king, you and your silly English kiii-niggits!&quot;<br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-04-03 00:00:00
subject: <b>Rand Al'Durden?</b>
body:
Rand used some threads of air to pull himself up. He just crafted an illusion of the hand to convince himself that there was someone there. Bet Jack in Fight Club would have loved the One Power. Wait all the guys that can channel are goin Durden on us when the Taint takes them oh I get it now. Duh.<p>   Now I know that Moiraine has stated that you can't channel enough to do that no matter how strong you are. Well Moi in a world where Stilling AND Gentling have been fixed, Traveling is back in style, Weaves can be Unraveled and Inverted, it is possible to Cloak one's ability to channel, there are two Oath Rods, and a lust rod has been uncovered, The Tower is broken, the females that dig sex with other females have kept lesbianism a secret from the non-Aiel male population for three thousand years and Saidin is pure for the first time in as long, using enough air to lift yourself a couple of feet is not a problem.</p><p>   So Rand is Lews Therin and Lews is coming out in the psuedo flesh? I like it. This makes more sense than any Moridin theory yet. As for who destroyer 3 is I've a clue yet, so I will soon submit my thoughts on this.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.</font></p><p></p>


created: 2001-04-10 00:00:00
subject: <b>He's not that delusional!</b>
body:
I think it's a cool theory, but I don't think it's right.  Just because a few "impossible" things have been done is no reason to believe anything can be done.  I think the Moridin theories explain a lot.  Moridin is always going on about chaos and everything, and Rand is creating more than all of the Forsaken put together.  It also explains the fact that he didn't feel the weaving that the man did much better than that he was in a delusional state.


created: 2001-06-04 07:12:57
subject: <b>In fact, he's not delusional at all.</b>
body:
What delusional? Was Liah a hallucination? Was Sammael? Liah got balefired and Sammael got swallowed by Mashadar in the time revision caused by that balefire. Rand was in no way delusional for all of that. That he's panicked, desperate, and nearly died in a who-knows-how-deep pit would make anyone a bit skittish, but he's nothing like hysterical.<br /><br />On the lifting himself thing, havn't we seen Rand make a bridge of Air for he and Min to walk across from a boat onto a Seafolk ship? What stops him from doing so here? For whatever reason it is that you can't pull yourself off the ground, you can make a fixed platform of Air to stand on. But of course, then he wouldn't have had that nice lil' chat with the Wanderer.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-11 11:48:51
subject: <b>Yeah but the wanderer looks nothing like Lews Therin</b>
body:
We have seen descriptions of Lews Therin on two occasions.  The first, in the very beginning of the books in the prologue to EotW.  The second, in tFoH when Rahvin manipulates Tel'Aran'Rhiod to attempt to change Rand into Lews Therin.  In both instances, we see Lews Therin as having light brown, but mostly grey, hair and beard with troubled eyes.  The most important thing is that Rand realizes that this is Lews Therin.  So he knows what Lews Therin looks like.  The wanderer, however, is young and has either black or blond hair(I can't remember).  Does that look like Lews Therin to you?  If Rand was being delusional, don't you think his delusion of Lews Therin would have looked like what Rand knows Lews Therin looks like?  It wasn't Lews Therin.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Vercingetorix<br /><img src="images/personalsmilies/803.gif" /><br />Theory Post Admin<br /><br />I went to the doctor the other day and all he did was drain some blood from my neck.  Don't ever go to Doctor Acula.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-14 01:26:21
subject: <b>howabout a younger version of LT??</b>
body:
so it says all gray or whatever hair in teotw.. I get the feeling that whoever pulled Rand up was from INSIDE of Rand.  I don't know how crowded it's gettin' inside his head, but we do know LT is in there.  So if you were the old dragon, would you not just reincarnate yeself all with a younger body?  Maybe.


created: 2001-09-05 18:38:26
subject: <b>mabey</b>
body:
	it might be possible, after all, the heros can be called back using the horn, why can't Lewis Terrin have some sort of body to help Rand when he's in trouble(ocationaly).


created: 2001-12-12 21:02:20
subject: <b>Hey, I like that idea...</b>
body:
Yeah, whenever Rand gets in trouble, all he has to do is pull out his special whistle and blows, and Lews Therin jumps in to save the day! Look, up in the sky! It's a bird, it's a plane, no, it's Superkinslayer!<br /><br />Oh, wait, that's right...it wasn't Lews Therin, it was Moridin. Never mind.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i>Stories grow from everywhere, they&#8217;re like some hideous alien moss that can just sprout up.</i><br />--Joss Whedon<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-11 20:51:14
subject: <b>LOL</b>
body:
HAHAHA you're funny. But i agree it wasn't LTT. I posted my own theory on it. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rand.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you shall be knelt! - Mazrim Taim<br /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2004-03-16 11:04:15
subject: <b>Not bad.</b>
body:
I thought this was a bit more creative than the bulk of the &quot;wanderer&quot; theories. It could be right.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">the kfp<br /><br />&quot;...there's a little boy with a spider in his hand, there's a little boy with a spider in his hand, hello, oh oh..&quot; The White Stripes, Little People</font><p></p>


created: 2004-06-06 16:57:34
subject: <b>The voice</b>
body:
If it was Lews Therin, Rand would have recognize his voice. AND Rand had already seen Lews Therin to some extent. <br />You could argue that Lews Therin's voice belongs to a mad one, and the wanderer were sane, but bear in mind that when LTT and Rand worked together during LoC, LTT were resonable sane and so Rand should have recognize the wanderer by his voice, if not his looks.


created: 2005-08-24 01:18:50
subject: <b>Time Travel!</b>
body:
LTT found a time machine in one of the portal stone worlds, brought it back to the AoL, traveled way ahead in time, after Rand went to Shadar Logoth and Rand had been killed there so he traveled back to then just in time to save Rand.<br /><br />How does LTT as the Wanderer make more sense than Moridin?


created: 2001-04-03 00:00:00
subject: <b>ah but in his mind</b>
body:
Lewy might've still thought of himself as a young man? Think about it do you always envision yourself as how you physically look at that moment? I usually envision myself in standard mod whcih stopped agin forward with my changing looks 2 or 3 years past now.<p>   So if Lews thinks of Rand as his other self (it's been obvious for a while that Lews thinks he's been alive and Rand is a dead man in his skull right?) then maybe Rand is seeing a vision of How Lews thinks he looks in the walking world.</p><p>   By the way how do we know that Lews is really dead? I'll explain more in a theory soon.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.</font></p><p></p>


created: 2001-09-05 18:41:07
subject: <b>wotmania comment</b>
body:
	about LT having grey hair and the wanderer having black, well keep in mind that it was dark, that could have made grey hair seem black


created: 2001-11-17 09:40:44
subject: <b>LTT</b>
body:
Well, LTT may have had gray hair when he died, he was also a lot more insane than the wanderer <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br />So maybe it's LTT a few years before he died, when he hadn't gone too mad yet.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Wielder of teh Dutch l00ny!<br />(*mumble* Did that make sense? .... Oh well)</font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-11 20:57:02
subject: <b>NO!</b>
body:
You all crazy!? It couldn't have been LTT. The man has been dead for 3000 years, he's in Rand's head, and whoever the wanderer was, he used balefire and Rand couldn't sense it, which means that he used the True Power, which means that he's connected to the Dark One, and LTT, the DRAGON! wouldn't allow a direct link between himself and the dark one to exist, even if he was insane, and the Dragon would never bow down to the DO, no matter what Ishamael ranted at Rand in the first three books, because all the names he mentioned were FALSE dragons.<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rand.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you shall be knelt! - Mazrim Taim<br /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-26 16:41:06
subject: <b>Uhm...</b>
body:
Im sorry if I come off a little rash but all of you people out there who STILL don't think the Wanderer is Moridin need to be beaten till you see sense. Moridin doesn't have a great hatred for Rand anymore since he was reborn. He himself basically stated try not to kill him if you can just make sure you get what he is carrying.<br /><br />~May you see the light of reason and the illusion of reality~


created: 2004-04-24 18:56:57
subject: <b>To Knight_of_the_Dragon</b>
body:
Actually, forging a connection to the dark one could easily be what Ishamael did to &quot;Heal&quot; Lews Therin in the prologue of tEOtW. Not saying i believe this theory, just like to be contrary...


created: 2001-04-15 00:00:00
subject: <b>The not sensing balefire theory</b>
body:
Everyone seems convinced that it is morishy as the wanderer and that the true sorce was used because he couldn't sense it.  I think its Lews Therin myself (and will probably be proven wrong) but, in the book (and no, I don't want to look them up right now <img src="images/smile.gif" />) it says (paraphrase) that when rand made the balefire the 'wanderer' produced another stream which converged into one and disappeared.. kinda like matter and anti-matter, they cancelled each other out and then rand's head rung like a bell had struck and yada yada yada <img src="images/smile.gif" />  (can't remember all of it and Im very tired).  If it was the TP and morishy then why would the balefires converge? and the ringing and so on???


created: 2001-06-04 07:29:28
subject: <b>Don't cross the streams. It's bad.</b>
body:
Nowhere in the text does it say that the balefire streams 'converged and disappeared'. When the two streams contacted one another, it knocked them both off their feet, drove Saidin from Rand, and that ended the stream of balefire.<br /><br />One of the comments of the wanderer is that he does not want to see Rand die today, but he will not kill Sammael for him. There isn't one syllable of the actual comment that shares any characteristics with Lew Therin. If LTT had the chance, he'd kill any Forsaken nearby. He's always grabbing for the Source when he senses one of them. The comment IS, however, perfectly in keeping with Moridin's stance as described in the prologue of PoD where the Sha'rah game is described. He believes he is playing both sides of the game. He doesn't want Rand dead yet, because he is so useful for sowing chaos. He does want Sammael, gone though, and here's why.<br /><br />When Moridin is stalking Sammael and Graendal during their visits with Sevanna and the Shaido wise ones, he hears Sammael say to Graendal, &quot;Remember who will be Nae'blis.&quot;. Obviously, Sammael is referring to himself, to get Graendal to stick with his plans, and we even get an internal POV from Graendal that Sammael wouldn't dare lie about such a thing. Well, if you are Moridin, the DO's numero uno bad guy, you don't want another Chosen punk claiming he is. Then it isn't long afterwards that Graendal gets a visit from Moridin, who tells her that the time of her going her own way is over. He couldn't have made that quite so convincing while the guy who first claimed to Graendal to be Nae'blis was still around.<br /><br />I hated it when I was first faced with the possibility that the wanderer was Moridin. I wanted it to be someone who really planned to help Rand. But the evidence is otherwise.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-08 00:42:41
subject: <b>Why it was mordin and the true power plus a little on the taint</b>
body:
After this incident Rand starts getting dizzy and his vision doubles when ever he touches Saidin... Like what happened when the streams of balefire touched. I think that the taint is the true power. This is how they go mad: Drawing to much of any of the powers can erase your mind correct? So if the men are drawing Saidin the little bit of the true power that the draw it through is not being used and slowly eats at thier mind. The effects of channeling the true power seem like a quick advanced version of the taint. I believe it was moghedian that said the the true poweer was more addictive and had worse results ust my thoughts


created: 2001-09-05 18:45:18
subject: <b>why</b>
body:
why would mordin whant to kill Sammel?  OK, narrow the competition and all that, but at the moment mordins position seems pretty steady. he might want to win over Rand by doing favors for him but you would think he would do so using a less valuable person than one of the forsaken <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" />


created: 2001-12-27 05:44:33
subject: <b>moridin it is!</b>
body:
Reason #1<br /><br />Moridin, watching Sammael and Graendal squabble, was irritated, or at least unimpressed, with Sammael calling himself Nae'blis. There was also mention of his &quot;truce&quot; with Rand, which Moridin said was (paraphrasing here, can't find my copy of the book it was in <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> ) 'as risky a clam as it was false'. He seemed slightly peeved, as the Forsaken were all seemingly instructed to leave Rand be, which Sammael was not. This could easily give Moridin the neccessary motive.<br /><br />Reason #2<br /><br />The true power. Rand not sensing the man channelling or feeling the tingle that would indicate a woman seems to be a pretty obvious clue to me. The fact that their streams of balefire intersected and blew both men back could lead to interesting hypotheses, or whatever the plural of that word is, on the true power, but I definitely think it was the TP.<br /><br />Reason #3<br /><br />The obvious reason. Moridin looks like the wanderer, whereas the wanderer didn't seem to fit the description of Lews Therin. Besides which, Rand knows what Lews Therin looks like, and would have recognized him.<br /><br />Cheers <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-09-05 16:16:22
subject: <b>Interesting thought...</b>
body:
that the true power is the taint on the source.  You'd think, though, that the male channellers would build up sa'a, though, from touching the True Power.


created: 2002-10-01 17:25:35
subject: <b>No way</b>
body:
Nowhere do any of the forsaken or anybody else for that matter say that Moridin looks like Rand. And every body else who sees the Wanderer (as you all call him) says he looks like he could be rands older cousin.


created: 2003-01-17 01:12:53
subject: <b>Uh?</b>
body:
Concerning the last comment... It seems to me that you're referring to Slayer, who is both Rands uncle and Lans cousin. Not otherwise. The Wanderer is definitly Moridin, who is described as looking as a borderlander in the mid-twenties... Nowhere like Rand...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> I'm Jacks complete lack of suprise <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-06-26 13:07:19
subject: <b>One more subtle Moridin Reference.......</b>
body:
If you will remember, in aCoS, the Wanderer says something to the effect that if Rand fails a great deal of plans will have to be relaid. Now,tPoD, Moridin mentions that he dislikes people meddling with his carefully laid plans. I dunno bout you, but the wording here seems to be one of Jordans notorious subtle hints. Combine this with the other Moridin theories, and I think it concretes the evidence.


created: 2003-06-28 16:41:22
subject: <b>Rand's uncle?</b>
body:
namaste's comment on this I believe to be mistaken. The one who is referred to, by our heroines meeting in the T'a'R version of the Heart of the Stone, as resembling an older Rand, turns out to be Luc/Isam, NOT Moridin. This is well, since Luc IS Rand's uncle, Taringail's brother. Isam is Lan's cousin, who's mother wished to be named the King of Malkier and who was driven (or fled) into the Blight.<br /><br />I am still quite convinced that the Wanderer is Moridin. He doesn't express distress at the idea of Rand dying, but would be inconvenienced by it. He has no problem with seeing Sammael wasted though, for a number of reasons. Punishing one who made a false claim to be Nae'blis, weeding out the eventual competition, even allowing Rand another victory against a Chosen to reduce his wariness all have value as reasons for Ishy to want Sammael dead. But as he says, he won't do the thing for Rand.<br /><br />There really is no other choice for the wanderer's balefire stream than the TP. Rand can sense saidar being channeled, so there's no way it's a woman in disguise. I considered for a brief time the idea that it was a hallucination of LTT, but Lews Therin ALWAYS wants to kill a Forsaken, he surely wouldn't say what the wanderer did.<br /><br />Wondering about the impact of Saidin making contact with the TP, especially in the pure and concentrated form of balefire, provokes many questions, but no answers for now.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2004-01-20 16:35:01
subject: <b>So true</b>
body:
I just finished re-reading CoS, and trying to figure out who the wanderer was. I didn't give him much thought the first time.  I agree that it is Moridin.  His discription fits, and not many others would wear so much black(including hair)-which made a creepy image in my mind- but a guy named Death?  Also what alternative could there be to the True Power? No one else we've met uses it frequently. Moridin makes the most sense.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" />Bookworms turn into butterflies<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" />Crazy doesn't begin to cover it!!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2004-09-13 16:35:40
subject: <b>What If...</b>
body:
I think that this is a possible instance where the Creator actually a got off his but and intervened, temporarily inhabiting a human body...<br /><br />I can think of no reason why Morrididin would reveal himself to Rand, and not Kill him... (he would be under no real restrictions, as he was/is Nae'Blis...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/baalzamon.gif" border="0" /> &quot;I'm the D.O.&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /> &quot;No I am&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rand.gif" border="0" /> &quot;KILL THEM!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /> &quot;You can't possibly win!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" />*smirks* &quot;Ya wanna make a bet???&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/perrin.gif" border="0" /> *mutters* &quot;stupid axe&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/elayne.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/avi.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/min.gif" border="0" /> &quot;YOU CAN DO IT!&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2005-08-24 01:08:31
subject: <b>It's Moridin. Duh</b>
body:
Moridin has his own reasons for wanting Rand to live to the Last Battle.  Remember, he's playing both sides of the board and is controlling the Fischer (Rand).<br /><br />And I have no idea what the deal with balefire touching, other than if you balefire balefire, wouldn't it make it like you never made balefire?    I think that that's what's causing Rand's sickness,a nd it probably does the same to Moridin when he channels Saidin.  That could be why he only channels the True Power (or Source, whichever the DO gives.  I get them cornfussed sometimes).


created: 2002-01-19 20:39:16
subject: <b>You couldn't be more wrong</b>
body:
Now if my memory serves me right, Osan'gar and Aran'gar (or whatever) are created in the begining of The Fires of Heaven, and Lanfear is killed at the end of The Fires of Heaven.  There's also the fact that both of them are male you moron!


created: 2002-06-14 00:42:42
subject: <b>forget it</b>
body:
i'm pretty sure we got that one worked out in the last bit of winter's heart. i'm fairly sure that osan'gar is dashiva, and he got killed by a member of the black ajah.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> keeper of the truth <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> reader of all things bookish <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> keeper of the truth <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> reader of all things bookish <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br />to those gone, lest we forget.<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-07-08 11:51:38
subject: <b>besides...</b>
body:
there is always the True Power which would lead one to beleive that is was Moridin who kept Rand alive... TP cannot be detected, right?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Can you see the line where the water ends?<br />Draws itself off into oblivion...</font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-04 22:59:41
subject: <b>You people are such retards!</b>
body:
Osan'Gar is a man. He was masquerading as Dashiva, read the last chapter of WH if you want proof. He was also killed.<br /><br />Aran'Gar is a woman. She is Balthamel reborn. There were no other forsaken who could be resurrected when she/he was brought outta death. Aran'Gar is masquerading as Halima, a secretary for one of the memebers of the rebel Aes Sedai. <br /><br />Those two were brought back at the start of LoC, in the prologue.<br /><br />Cyndane is Lanfear. You only have to read the last chapter of WH to figure that out. Her thoughts say she loved Lews Therin but he spurned her. She says she was imprisoned by the Eelfinn. And last but not least, she is described as being stronger in the Power than Semirhage, and Sem was the second most powerful of the female forsaken, next to Lanfear.<br /><br />I hope this can help make you fools see some bloody sense!


created: 2003-05-02 07:08:11
subject: <b>Lanfear is Cyndane</b>
body:
We know for a fact Lanfear is Cyndane, and Aginor is now Osangar, and it was Moridin (Ishmael) who pulled Rand out of the hole as he uses the true power, which is undetectable to men and women both. And he has blues eyes.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">My real life photo is at:<br /><br />http://groups.msn.com/ClanUL/hbiram.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&amp;PhotoID=863<br /><br />KLINGON bastards.... you've killed my SON!<br /><br />WoT: Good story... if only he knew how to tell it. Kerching.</font><p></p>


created: 2003-07-17 15:18:18
subject: <b>No offense</b>
body:
But this is crap.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i>Master of the Revels</i><br /><br /><b>If I can't dance, then I don't want any part of your revolution</b></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-04 07:36:46
subject: <b>Conflicting orders</b>
body:
It's fairly certain by the time of Rand's attack on Sammael that the order to kill Rand has already gone out to the renegade Asha'man, and as seen by Kisman's POV in WH, that order came three times; from Taim, Demandred, and Moridin.<br /><br />As such, I don't think Demandred would have passed up a simple shot at Rand. And being in Shadar Logoth, Demandred could have killed Rand and Sammael, then reported that Sammael got Rand and he nailed Sammael for disobedience. Demandred would surely do such a thing.<br /><br />Demandred thinks he can create all the chaos needed by himself, and if nothing else he would have left Rand hanging over that hole, and let Sammael kill him. He's been scheming to get someone else to kill Rand for months, it's an obsession for the man who has always come up short to Lews Therin.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-23 23:52:15
subject: <b>Correction for Tim</b>
body:
Tim I don't think that Moridin ever ordered the death of Rand. Even at the big meeting in WH he said words to the effect of &quot;Well kill him if you have to, but only if you really REALLY have to. By the way I'm Ishamael reborn. Cyndane used to be Lanfear, Osangar and Arangar were Aginor and Belthalmel respectively, Shadar Haran is the dark one in human form, who happens to have an addiction to candy canes.&quot;<br /><br />    &quot;Graendal is pregnant, and Moghedien is the father. I'm still trying to figure that one out myself so don't ask me? They'll either name the kid Tylinor Mat for reasons unknown to me. They keep smirking when I ask.&quot;<br /><br />   &quot;Mesaana just defected to the white tower, she is now a loyal member of the red ajah. I don't know quite what caused this, she just kept babbling about pillows and friendship. I think she's gone round the bend.&quot;<br /><br />    &quot;By the way Semihaggeer, semrigaheg, semir, that sadistic broad with the nice figure, called the other night. She's also abandoning the cause of the dark for awhile. It's not that she's become good or anything like that, she's opening up some kind of dance hall or pub or something. She calls it a BDSM club, whatever that means?&quot;<br /><br />   &quot;Osangar is opening up a new art supply store, and arangar has a new night wear for women shop being contructed next month. Sammael remains to be very freakin dead with odds of ressurection as a man woman or fade being at 23 to 1 against. The odds of him coming back as a trolloc remain at 2 to 1.&quot;<br /><br />   &quot;By the way can we please put all those jokes about Demandred to rest? He's gone on record saying many times that he is not disguising himself as Taim. He did his best to prove that it was not a body double that he brought to last months picnic. Can we move on past this now?&quot;<br /><br />   &quot;Speaking of moving on and putting things to rest will some one please admit that they killed that greasy little punk named Asmo. I mean really we've debated long enough about which of us could or could not have done it, can we please just get this question resolved?&quot;<br /><br />   &quot;That completes this months Chosen update. On a final note I can't stress enough that you really should hold off from killing that irritating Al'Thor brat as a last resort. C'mon think of how empty our lives would be if he died before the dark one breaks free, it'd be kind of disappointing don't you think?&quot;<br /><br />   &quot;I can't stress<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-04 07:44:09
subject: <b>Two tiny comments</b>
body:
Just for accuracy's sake...<br /><br />The post mentions that Moridin is unaffected by the crossing balefire streams. This isn't true. When Rand looks up, he sees the wanderer holding his head in his hands and looking startled. I don't think it was a matter of Rand getting blasted with a concentrated dose of the taint, but simply two different powers of intense magnitude coming in contact. Compare to when one person manages to slice another's weave, it snaps back to the channeler with a force that is physically felt.<br /><br />And about the Myrddraal and the True Power, noone but the wielder can sense the TP being used. So it is possible that Aginor could never have been able to determine that some use of the TP is working for Fades.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-20 16:39:17
subject: <b>about the Myrdraal...</b>
body:
you asked if the Forsaken can sense someone using the True Power.  In Winter's Heart they can't; when all of the Chosen are meeting together they cannot sense when Moridin uses the True Power.  The only indication that they have that he is seizing it are the saa in his eyes.  <br /><br />interesting theory.  I believe it.


created: 2001-08-14 15:46:57
subject: <b>What of Shaidar Haran?</b>
body:
Why can it not be Shaidar Haran?  Myrddraal have similar characteristics too.  Plus, I also believe they use the TP.


created: 2001-09-05 18:51:48
subject: <b>hummmm</b>
body:
I'd forgotten about that double vition rand experienced, maybe it has some relavence to the double vition he is experianceing now...hummm....


created: 2001-10-02 19:12:06
subject: <b>Very nice... I like it.</b>
body:
cool<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Burasco <br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-10 01:34:59
subject: <b>Addition to the saa problem</b>
body:
Moridin could have been using the true power, as it probably was too dark in the chamber for Rand to see that saa in his eyes anyway. Interesting theory =)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-14 12:16:46
subject: <b>Not a gateway</b>
body:
He dint have to make a gateway to escape either. He could have stepped into Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh instead. Or, seeing as how the forsaken are from the AOL, I assume they can fly since in TDR Ishy floats down from the top of the Stone zapping Moraine with black lightning.  He could have flown away <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> I still think its a good possibility the Wanderer is a reincarnated female forsaken.


created: 2002-01-10 12:52:02
subject: <b>Myrdraal and the True Power, yes...</b>
body:
I like the point about Myrdraal and the TP.  I've been sure for ages that Shaidar Haran has some kind of ability with the TP, but I liked your theory on the way Myrdraal slip into the shadows. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> So maybe ALL Fades use it, unconsciously and in a limited sense...<br /><br />To Bradley's point&gt; Assuming you accept that Cyndane is Lanfear, which I do, then all of the female Forsaken are accounted for.  Moiraine(?) DOES mention at some point that it was rumoured Aes Sedai could fly in the AoL, but why fly when you can step straight from one place to another?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Viran Yevel <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> RL Nae'Blis of sorts <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Masticator Extraordinaire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> 100% Spettio devotee <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/oh.gif" border="0" /> Co-Founder of Absurdity Anonymous <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/oh.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-05 22:46:59
subject: <b>Plain as the nose on your face</b>
body:
Okay, so nobody can feel the TP being channeled, the only evidence is the black specks of saa in the weilder's eyes, correct?  More or less, the consensus is that the Fades use the TP for their shadow walking.  Also that Moridin can step outside of the pattern using the TP.<br /><br />Okay, lets tie this all up into one working bit.<br />Its stated in the books that the reason a Fade's cloak never moves in the wind is that they aren't totally in this world to start with, so that reinforces them being able to step outside the pattern since they've already got a foot out the door anyway.  Back to the TP's only clue being the saa in the user's eyes.  What do the Fades (sorry, its just easier than typing out Myrddraal every time) not have?  Eyes.  Even one of the forsaken from the AoL couldn't figure out how they Fades could do what they do.  If they truely used the TP, then it would be impossible for anyone but the DO to know because they have no eyes for the saa to flash across. <br /><br />Now to put the capstone on it all.  The run of the mill Myrddraal are wilders.  They're born being able to channel the TP, and just do it as needed.  Now that would make our super fade friend over there the equivolent of a myrddraal Aes Sedai, a fade that knows he can channel the TP, and knows how to do it at will.  Having an inborn ability to channel the TP, and know it full well would make anybody cocky, which is exactly what he seems to be.<br />I think that puts a good clencher on the Myrddraal using the TP.  Hey, maybe I should have made that a full theory, not just a BB post.  I think I will. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-04-12 11:07:40
subject: <b>I have a ?</b>
body:
Why is Moridin the only one that uses that TP? I mean if Rand  can't sense it you'd think they would all be useing it. Obviously it has some benefits that the OP does not when fighting Rand.


created: 2002-07-02 00:53:35
subject: <b>Moridin</b>
body:
I would have to agree with your assessment.  It seems to be the most plausible explanation of how the Myrdraal are able to do what they do.  ACoS even states that the True Power &quot;could neither be seen nor detected except by who weilded it.&quot; (ACos, Patterns Within Patterns, pg. 356)  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-11-26 21:53:08
subject: <b>Sighs heavily...</b>
body:
Firstly I'd like to point out that in Shadar Logoth very few people do not have cold chilling tingles running up and down their body. So it is possible that the Wanderer is a woman using the power to change both appearance and voice. Need I say more?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">PsyKyle<br /><i>Good heavens, that name sounds more cliche everytime I post...</i><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-11-19 11:20:46
subject: <b>uhmmm . . .</b>
body:
Ok, now I have a few comments. first of all, Fades can do what they do because they aren`t completely in reality at all. It has nothing to do with the True Power. However, Shaidar Haran has the ability to use some type of power that the other Fades can`t. I believe he is the only one who can use the TP. <br /><br />And, just on a side note. I don`t think Moiraine is the wanderer. If you ask me, Lanfear and Moiraine are both Cyndane. Note how Luc and Isam share a body? Well, We`ve not seen Cyndane doing much, but I do believe her description was similar to Moiraine`s. Such as how Luc/Isam look like luc in the real world, but resemble Isam in TAR. I believe that Cyndane will resemble Lanfear (who held TAR as her own personal domain) while inTAR.<br /><br />Just a few thoughts. Well thought out theory though.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Lugh of the Vanth<br />Prince of Coolavin<br />Lord of the Darmods<br /><br />&quot;If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips.&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2004-04-24 19:08:17
subject: <b>Maisac...</b>
body:
the true power is really addictive, no one can resist it once the saa start (I think Moghedien thinks this when she meets Moridin after she comes out of the vacuole) moridin is not gonna last long the way he uses it, every time he uses it the saa are a &quot;black blizzard,&quot; so he is pretty close to destroying himself with it.


created: 2005-04-13 00:11:36
subject: <b>just a thought</b>
body:
i agree that the wanderer is in all likelyhood moridin, and that he was using the true power. i would like to suggest, however, that the reason for rand's double vision and stuff is not because of the magnified taint of the true power or because 2 enormous powers are colliding, but simply because their balefire collided. this must have posed a bit of a problem to the pattern, seeing as balefire is pretty much like an &quot;anti-pattern.&quot; the confusion caused within the pattern would then be felt by both rand and moridin. they both had trouble right after the incident, and rand has problems later. i dont think we see anything trough moridin's point of view after this, so he could be having the same sort of problems for all we know. just a thought, but maybe worth sharing.


created: 2005-09-22 17:30:39
subject: <b>I agree</b>
body:
I completely agree with you. It was all very well backed up except for the part about The Wanderer not feeling anything. Nice job.<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">WAFFLES!<br />Bonded to Model_02<br />Alicia wishes she was as hot as me<br />Member of Anatidaephobians Anonymous<br />Not-So-Near Second Cousin to Saeric Greylord<br />Officially better at hockey than DREWRULESWOT!<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2007-04-04 14:41:14
subject: <b>About the myrddraal</b>
body:
myrddraal have no eyes as well. the only indication someone channels the one power is the saa in there eyes.


created: 2008-03-22 17:52:23
subject: <b>Good Theory</b>
body:
It's a good sound theory. I can see one slight problem (possibly) and it is to do with the Myrdraal channeling the TP   . The thing I noticed is that Aginor was theo ne who created the shadowspawn, not the DO. With this it seems liekly that he would have a slight idea of how they move from shadow to shadow. I may have missed something here but I also beleive that Myrdraal are the &quot;children&quot; of Trollocs. So would they not in effect also have some slight ability to channel the TP? <br /><br />Evidence going against my mini-theory here is that Myrdraal can be linked to Trollocs so that if it dies so do the Trollocs. This could be a form of the Warder Aes Sedai bond. This would imply some form of power is used to link them. Since there is no mention of any Black Ajah help or Forsaken involved in this process, it would also seem to prove your Myrdraal TP theory.


created: 2001-09-15 05:12:15
subject: <b>I've only got 1 thing to say</b>
body:
Wake up!!!!!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I am dead <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /><br />I mean Death <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" />The Darkness to <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> balance the light<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />More than a little insane<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br />AND MY HERO TALKS IN CAPITALS<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br />     &#223;&#174;&#220;&#169;&#163;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The grave is no bar to my call - inscription on a mighty HORN</font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-21 10:24:10
subject: <b>no, no, and no!</b>
body:
1) Moridin uses the True Power for EVERYTHING.<br />... That includes balfire.<br /><br />2) The creator never take part of the real world, <br />... he only created it.<br /><br />3) The True Power isn't proved to be taint, <br />... it's only a theory.<br /><br />4) Moridin would be able to disguise himself with the True Power, <br />... so Rand wouldn't notice him.<br /><br />5) RJ wouldn't stoop to such a childish thing.<br />... He is a great author, not a stupid writer.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">da'covale d'Rie Bolmdahl <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><i>Deyeneiye, dyu ninte concion ca ye</i> <font color="white">(no, tia Rie Bolmdahl)</font><br />I'm sleepy. <br /><br />currently: away</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-10 12:40:31
subject: <b>It had to be Moridin!</b>
body:
Who else could it have been but Moridin?  I cannot believe that RJ would simply drop another character so powerful, and so obviously important, into the story seemingly out of nowhere.  So who?<br /><br />It has been stated that Moridin is the Nae'Blis, we know all about the convoluted plans of the DO and his desire to &quot;let the Lord of Chaos rule,&quot; and that is what Moridin is talking about when he says &quot;too many plans would have to be relaid&quot;.  It relates to something he says not long after, at the beginning of PoD, about &quot;playing both sides of the board&quot;... Sammael may have been willing to kill Rand (I dread to think what would have happened to him if he had!) but Moridin, the Nae'Blis, is under strict instructions to see that the Dragon lives.<br /><br />Obviously, it would appear that this changed in WH, when Rand's plan to cleanse the taint came to light, but that's perfectly understandable also.  Who knows exactly where they stand on it now?  Not me.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Viran Yevel <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> RL Nae'Blis of sorts <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Masticator Extraordinaire <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> 100% Spettio devotee <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/oh.gif" border="0" /> Co-Founder of Absurdity Anonymous <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/oh.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-20 19:13:30
subject: <b>just wanted to say a lil something</b>
body:
I personaly have not put to much thought into who it is that helped Rand in that battle... but if the creator isn't going to help them one little bit why in the world did he even say one word to Rand in tEotW?  If you remember correctly at the end of the book Rand Talks to the creator for just a few moments... just a thought


created: 2002-11-14 09:53:25
subject: <b>double vision</b>
body:
the reason they both experienced double vision was the balefire itself.<br /><br />when the two bars touched, they both erased everything connected to their end of the bar, witch would be rand and the wanderer.  but since they were destroyed before they used balefire, neither ones balefire could effect the other, since neither of them actually used it. so in effect, nothing happened at all.<br /><br />that gives me a headache just thinking about it.  no wonder they got double vision and a splitting headache when it happened.


created: 2003-02-05 14:43:23
subject: <b>Doubt it dude</b>
body:
<u><font color="blue">You must be kidding yourself</font></u><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><font color="white">Do NOT highlight this space...</font><b><font color="#FF99FF"><i>P</i></font><font color="#006699"> Floyd</font></b><font color="white">...or you'll be in trouble!</font><br /><br /><font color="white">............</font><i>'You're a pacifist with a gun, Eileen.'</i> - Sam Roberts</font><p></p>


created: 2003-11-19 11:24:36
subject: <b>Just a side note</b>
body:
Ok, we have the True Source, and the One Power. The dark one`s power is known as the True Power. So, would the special Power coming directly from the Creator be none as the One Source? meh, just asking.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Lugh of the Vanth<br />Prince of Coolavin<br />Lord of the Darmods<br /><br />&quot;If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips.&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2004-02-29 19:23:24
subject: <b>Let me get this straight...</b>
body:
Okay, so the Creator comes and helps Rand?  Then how come when the two bars of balefire touch it intesified the effect taint on Rand?  If it was the Creator wouldn't it lessen the effect of the taint, or something?<br /><br />Sorry, I don't think so


created: 2004-05-29 14:45:39
subject: <b>The Wanderer is NOT the Creator</b>
body:
First of all, the Creator has so far always refused to meddle in the world directly. Secondly, he speaks in CAPITALS (see somewhere at the end of The Eye Of The World).<br />


created: 2004-11-23 22:19:16
subject: <b>ohmygod.....</b>
body:
Drakuskial.... or whatever your name is, are you really &quot;that&quot; ignorant? MORIDIN IS THE BIGGEST OP USER IN THE ENTIRE SERIES (EXCEPT PERHAPS HIS PAST SELF I.E. ISHY)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/baalzamon.gif" border="0" /> &quot;I'm the D.O.&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /> &quot;No I am&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rand.gif" border="0" /> &quot;KILL THEM!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" /> &quot;You can't possibly win!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" />*smirks* &quot;Ya wanna make a bet???&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/perrin.gif" border="0" /> *mutters* &quot;stupid axe&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/elayne.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/avi.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/min.gif" border="0" /> &quot;YOU CAN DO IT!&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-30 14:41:45
subject: <b>Good but......</b>
body:
Wow, this is a very good theory, I just have one small objection, you seem to imply that to win &quot;the last battle&quot; Rand has to acknowledge the fact that he in a way is immortal. Now the way Jordan seems to be heading, given the appearence of Cadsuane and Sorilea, rather suggests that he has to do the opposite in order to win, acknowledge the fact that for all his might and glory, he is just a man  of flesh and blood.


created: 2002-02-06 11:38:17
subject: <b>Not so much...</b>
body:
Rand doesnt have to admit that he is immortal, just that he has lived many lives.<br /><br />Simply put, he has to accept who and what he is to be able to recognize that he is merely a man.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Mikel Gaidin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lan.gif" border="0" /> <br />Bonded to Aida Sedai<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/nynaeve.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-16 01:57:36
subject: <b>This could work</b>
body:
I am inclined to agree with your idea of all the personalities in Rand's head, because Lews mentions at least once about voices in HIS head.  He could mean Rand or it might be the dragon that preceded  him.


created: 2002-06-07 09:28:03
subject: <b>I like it!</b>
body:
I really like your theory! One thing I've always wondered about, though. Lews Therin mentions a third persona. Do you have any ideas as to whom that might be?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> <font color="goldenrod">Lady Alrae of House Carillon</font> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> <font color="maroon">Snooty Tairen Noble Extraordinaire</font> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="images/personalsmilies/15233.gif" /> AKA <b><font color="red">Paine</font></b> <img src="images/personalsmilies/15233.gif" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /><b>I HATE STUPID PEOPLE!</b><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />All Hail the <b><font color="blue">Yu</font><font color="orange">Ri</font><font color="red">Pa</font></b>!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-06-09 23:28:45
subject: <b>get a life</b>
body:
You obviously have no life. If u have enough time to think up this theory then u definitely need to get out more. And they're just books man, there's no need to get philisophical.<br /><br /><br />


created: 2002-06-29 19:31:10
subject: <b>Remnants?</b>
body:
Is it then possible for Lews to have left a small drop or two of himself in the glass and it is now mixed in with Rand's? I hope I read this correctly--I've only a few minutes to read this before I must leave.<br /><br />Whatever the reason, I rather like a 'mixture' of ideas such as this, and it is a reasonable connection to Kant's viewpoints.  <br /><br />I never have cared for the 'either/or' thought process, it seems much too linear--and as we know, life is anything but.<br /><br />Most things in life have more than one cause, proscribing to just ONE idea has to be just TOO simple!


created: 2002-08-22 16:36:14
subject: <b>I agree</b>
body:
Wish I had read this before another post entitled &quot;The Taint as an effect on Reborn Lives&quot;. I made a reply to that post with similiar ideas but nowhere near the philisophical backing that you did. I agree that the voices are the transcendental ego, or the essence of THE Dragon, with the empirical ego of LTT being the most recent and therfore the strongest. And the voice in LTT's head would be the Dragon's before him.<br /> I also think though, that because of the fact that Rand is going mad and LTT is already mad the pattern is forcing the Dragon's essence from before LTT to re-emerge as a driving force. To stabalize or even take over Rand's thinking. That is what is causing the shakes and shivers he gets when he tries to use the power. If I had two other guys in my head trying to move my arms where I wanted, My arms would probably jerk a lot. Since the power is all done mentally, it's no wonder he gets messed up in the head each time.


created: 2002-11-18 17:34:44
subject: <b>Buddha</b>
body:
I think this is a marvelous idea.  I also think it would be interesting if what rand has to do is face all of his past lives, much like Buddha saw his past lives, in order to workout a way to seal the DO back into his prison in this age an age long past an age yet to come.}:l


created: 2003-01-19 23:23:40
subject: <b>Here's a different bend on this reasoning...</b>
body:
I've been thinking on this for some time.  With the last couple of novels, Jordan has been introducing a third character to inhabit the body of Rand.  Rand now has one seperate entity in his head and another emerging.  My theory goes back to Herid Fel's explanation of the Wheel of Time and the Ages and what happens in them.  If you remember, Fel said that in one age people did not even remember the DO because he was locked in the Creator's prison sans any holes.  Then people drilled the Bore and released the DO.  Then in another Age, the Bore was sealed but with a barrier created by man (not as good as the Creator's original).  Now, Fel says, another Age will come when the DO's prison will be remade perfect again with no blemishes.  I think this has something to do with Rand and the different messiah characters he represents.  He is the embodiment of three different messiah characters reborn into the same body not just the Dragon.  He is the Dragon, the Cooramor, AND the Car'a'carn.  It would take a more powerful hero than any that has come before to remake the DO's prison.  So, he is three prophecies born into the same body.  This also leads into why he has three women that fall in love with him.  Elayne, Aviendha, and Min.  Each represents a lost love that is reborn to live her life with each of the three messiah's born into Rand's body.  What do ya think?


created: 2003-02-01 03:06:55
subject: <b>wow man</b>
body:
That has got to be the best description of the Rand/LTT in one body I have ever seen. I have to agree, though with RJ you just never can tell.


created: 2003-02-23 12:46:55
subject: <b>Yes!</b>
body:
This is a great theory.  I don't know if I'd feel sorry or happy for the next Dragon - LTT only moans about Ilyena, Rand would be going through his list of hundreds of maidens!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">If a sword had memory, it might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.<br />     -Rand Al'Thor<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-07-29 23:21:45
subject: <b>wow</b>
body:
ShavedApe, that was amazing.  You gave me goosebumps.<br /><br />So, is Casdsuane going to help Rand by helping him understand the voices in his head?  She must know what they mean, or at least a bit about them to have mentioned them when she first met him.  I don't think it was a throw-away comment - RJ uses seeming throw-away comments.  Min said he needed Cadsuane to teach him something.  It's generally agreed upon based on other prophesy snippets (sorry don't have my books handy ), that she has to teach him how to laugh and how to cry... essentially how to be human again.  He's so set on being hard as stone, I think partially because of the &quot;crazy&quot; voices in his head, that Cadsuane helping him come to grips with the &quot;reality&quot; of the voices might just make him laugh and cry at the same time and help him on his way to being human again.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/approve.gif" border="0" /> Survivor of Historical Inquizition ... barely <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Who can say if I've been changed for the better, but because I knew you I have been changed for good -- Wicked<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2005-08-16 19:49:53
subject: <b>the end of the wheel</b>
body:
I think that this turning of the wheel will be the last.  I know that the books themselves and RJ have both stated that the wheel is eternal and ages continue to infinity, but, for there to be another full turning the chreator would have to remake the world. The DO's prison was shattered, sealed, and will be broken again, if rand and co' reseal it again the hole will again weaken and break.  But if the wheel was to fully turn then the prison would have to be whole and perfect, this cannot be done by humans as was stated early in the books. Also, the current age is the 3rd and it is understood that the the AOL was the one preveous, this means the the patch on DO's prison only lasted a single age. There are six ages to the wheel and it was stated that there where ages when people did not even know the DO.<br />Also, in the AOL LTT did not complain about the previous dragon talking in his head, LTT was just himself. Rand has LTT ranting and raving about death and Ilenea, never happened before.<br />   Anyway dinner is almost done and im hungry, so if anyone can help me with this b4 this vien in my forhead hemorages, it would be appreciated.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tinfoilhat.gif" border="0" />, <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/perplexed2.gif" border="0" />


created: 2001-03-26 00:00:00
subject: <b>Wound and Taint Removal?</b>
body:
This is an interesting theory, but could this have anything to do with removing the taint from saidin?  That involved, from what I understand, having the DO's taint cancelled out by Shadar Logoth and vice versa.  Now, if Nynaeve was to Heal Rand eventually, wouldn't she be able to connect and modify the flows she wove with Rand in removing the taint in order to Heal his wound?  Just a thought.


created: 2001-03-29 00:00:00
subject: <b>Healing the wound</b>
body:
I seem to remember that Flinn put a ward around the wound, so if Nynaeve was to heal the wound(s), she would need a man to link with while doing it, perhaps Flinn himself: they're both the best healers of the age. I'm just not sure which one would lead the link...


created: 2001-05-03 00:00:00
subject: <b>Useful Wounds</b>
body:
Rand's wounds rather than being a source of weakness have in fact helped him.<br />Without the two wounds fighting each other there would have been no way for Rand to Observ the interaction between these two different evils and to heal Sadin. Also the wound in Rand's side is now one ofjust three sources of one of the most powerful counters to the Dark Ones power (others being Fain and his dagger)<br />His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul comes to mind about now. <img src="images/aessedai.gif" />


created: 2001-09-07 16:29:39
subject: <b>terribly sorry.</b>
body:
At the risk of sounding, now how should i put it? Childish, perhaps? I've always thought so to. But i didn't post it. You did. All praise to you.<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i><font face="times new roman"><br />But the dogs you say they fed you to<br />Lay their muzzles in your lap<br />And the lions that they led you to<br />Lie down and take a nap</font><br /></i><font face="wingdings"><font color="blue">h</font></font></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-07 04:10:52
subject: <b>As Loial would say....</b>
body:
&quot;<i>Ta'veren</i>.&quot;<br /><br />Only Rand could turn being stabbed in the side with a mystical, cursed dagger wielded by a corrupted, twisted little freak into a GOOD thing.<br />


created: 2002-05-08 06:27:38
subject: <b>Why the two wounds fight.</b>
body:
Personally I think that Shadar Logoth held the taint on the femal half of the source.  Both sources of power have good and bad and Rand figured out that the two should be in balance.  With the male half, the taint was everywhere, like scum on the surface of the ocean.  In the case of Shaddar Logoth, the taint was concentrated in one area.  When Rand flowed the taint on the male half into Shaddar Logoth, the two competing taints cancelled each other out and that is how the male half was cleaned.<br /><br />The initial wound probably arose from a weapon made from evil of the male half.  This is a weakness to my analysis because I don't think it says that anywhere.  But I think it's so because the wound from the Shaddar Logoth wound fights and in effect, cancels out the initial wound.<br /><br />


created: 2002-06-29 07:08:47
subject: <b>In responce to the female half taint...</b>
body:
First, where did you get this idea??  I would really like to know (no sarcasm).  Next, in this age there has never been mad female Aes Sedai, a taint on saidar, or anything like that, I won't say that this isn't the case for other ages because it might be, but because there have been no taint on saidar in this Age or last age (since the Age of Legends), and Shadar Logoth was corrupted in this Age or last age (again since AoL).  So that could not be the location of the taint being moved from the female half of the Source.  On top of that if the &quot;female taint&quot; came from the same source as the &quot;male taint&quot; (the DO) then why does it fight itself?  I know the quote goes something like the halves battle each other while driving the wheel, but that doesn't mean that the taints would have to.  Not withstanding that in the books it gives a brief history of the corruption on Shadar Logoth and it doesn't have anything to do with the One Power...<br /><br />I believe I have proformed a sound smack down...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Well Mom, that's because I hate your cretinous friends, and if I did somehow get drunk and knocked up, I'd be skewering your unborn grandchild with a knitting needle right now.<br /><br />-Krakow 2.0<br /><br />http://www.nerdparadise.com</font><p></p>


created: 2003-11-21 13:19:56
subject: <b>Close, but perhaps not quite.</b>
body:
Okay, I really do like your theory, and I agree with all but one part. The Creator does not interfere. I'm not near my book collection, so I don't have a quote for you, but the Creator was always more like a gardener, he plants the seeds (people)and then lets them grow by themselves, not tending them. I believe it was Lan who said that mankind was in the hands of men, not the Creator.


created: 2004-12-13 21:09:18
subject: <b>in response to 'why the 2 wounds fight'</b>
body:
aside from also wanting to know where u came up with the idea of a female taint(seriously, that came out of nowhere), you pretty much just rephased what the theory said, only more muddled.


created: 2007-10-30 12:19:27
subject: <b>wow...</b>
body:
ya two things, well three. <br /><br />one the comment about one Rand could make getting stabbed a good thing i like.<br /><br />second, the theory in general, yes that is something RJ wold do, its just beautiful enough to be true. yes i think it has come merit, though as it was said the Ceator doesnt interfere, but then, just replace that with being Ta'veren. simple eh. lol. <br /><br />my third point. about rand being restrained by it, after the battle at the mansion in KoD, Logain says that Rand is holding just about all he can of the Power, so im not sure, but i dont think it restrains him just the power of the other wound.<br />


created: 2001-08-23 08:04:36
subject: <b>Re: Rand`s three loves</b>
body:
Ok I havn`t finished book 9, just peeked a bit. Didn`t the three of them met there? I`m not 100% sure. I really don`t think that Rands and Mins relasjonship is just physical. She is the one he is closest to. HE can`t send her away as he did with the other two. If he is going to choose one I think it will be Min, but I think it will be all three if RJ don`t kill Rand in the ending ( than I`m never going to read any of his books again )<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><br />


created: 2001-10-24 19:34:39
subject: <b>Rand is most likely to change everything.</b>
body:
It does say that he will change everything, I hope he gets married to all three, Min most of all, I wonder<br />if any of his wives will have any authority like maybe a Lady Dragon?<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Lord Tiger VII <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /> Dagashei <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> lord_tiger_vii@hotmail.com <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /> dagashei@hotmail.com <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Wise Guy <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /> Observer of Imbeciles <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-31 18:26:28
subject: <b>Are you a slow reader or what</b>
body:
In the most recent book Winter's Heart the three get togther, but even before then the readers knew that the three would get together, Elayne and Av already like each other and in fact become first sisters through some twisted bonding.  Min and Elayne already made peace with each other long before that in like the second book.  And it may have taken a bit before Av and Min met but they seemed to hit it off fine.  And lets not forget that using the bonding weave used on Warders and the Aiel bonding weave Elayen bonded all four of them together.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br />


created: 2003-06-13 15:59:54
subject: <b>matter of relationships</b>
body:
Know this is probably off topic but, In and Rand's relationship is not the purely physical one. I think they've done it more than the other two, but Min spends more time with him and they talk more and know eachother better. Aviendah and Elayne hardly know him at all. Aviendah relationship was her screaming and yelling at him, and then all the sudden deciding that she loved him. Elyane pretty much was the first one to tell him that she liked him, and kissed him a lot. Then she found out the other two women had sex with him and got jealous. Min's the only one who even talks to him outside the bed.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Shadow Spinner <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" />Spin nightmares out of shadows<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2006-02-26 23:09:56
subject: <b>Just another opinion...</b>
body:
I haven't yet figured out how Rand will solve his little dilemna however, I can garauntee that he won't be able to choose one over the other.  His attraction to Min is not mainly physical.  He loves her, if anything, more then he has shown that he loves Elayne and Aviendha.  I think it's more likely that he would marry all three rather then marry just one and snub the other two.  That is a possiblity however, I am not sure how Min would feel about that. Elayne and Aviendha have accepted sharing him but not Min.  She has taken most of his time and where she knows that he loves and is loved by two other women, I'm not entirely sure how much she's thought of the implications.


created: 2001-07-27 07:28:03
subject: <b>Splitting Up</b>
body:
The possibility exists, according to a mythology I forget, probably Hindu, that a soul can be split into three, particularly if it's a strong/great soul. Maybe Ilyena's soul was split up and the separate bits were reincarnated into three different women. After all, Elayne, Min, and Aviendha do have similar traits. There's also the fact that they're willing to share him, which is extremely unusual. There are also many points of view where one of the women think &quot;So-and-so is so like me,&quot; or &quot;I love so-and-so as much as myself&quot;. Hmmm. <br /><br />Buuut, why does it have to be Ilyena reborn that Rand falls in love with? According to reincarnation, we're always with basically the same people in every life. So maybe Elayne, Aviendha, and Min are reincarnations of Lews Therin's three crushes or something before ooh la la! Mierin and Ilyena. <br /><br />The whole thing is intriguing, though.


created: 2001-07-29 23:22:41
subject: <b>My 2 cents</b>
body:
This is kind of a crazy, loose, idea, but hey, most of mine are.  Here goes:<br /><br />Rand loves his three gals because they are all connected to his past.  I don't think Elayne is Ilyena reborn or anything like that, but maybe she reminds Lews Therin of her? Also, her mom took Rand's mom's (Tigraine's) place, so Rand's past (and future) are connected to the Royal House of Andor.<br /><br />Avienda is Aiel.  Rand is Aiel.  Despite being raised in the Two Rivers, he's still Aiel, and so would therefore have a thing for an Aiel woman.  Also, this might be wrong, as I haven't read SR in a while, but I think that Rand's father- Jaundin- was clan cheif of the the Taraad, which is Avienda's clan.  If I'm remembering that right, then Rand and Avienda are from the same clan.<br /><br />Min is from Baerlon, which is near Emond's Field, and is a familier (sorta) face from back in the old Two Rivers.  Min being connected to Rand's past is the hardest one to prove. <br /><br />But there's another reason why, totally independent from the above, but along the same lines.  This one might be even more off the wall.  <br /><br />Each gal might represent an ending/scenario to Rand's life in different worlds.  Like, when he traveled by Portal Stone in tGH and saw many variations of his life go by.  If Shaiel/Tigraine (Rand's mom) had gone back to the Waste when she found she was pregnant (like she was supposed to), he would have lived as an Aiel, possibly meeting and loving Avienda.<br /><br />Had Tigraine stayed Daughter Heir and become Queen, somehow Rand would've been born and he would've met Elayne of House Trakand, maybe married her, and lived out his life as an Andoran noble.<br /><br />Had Moraine not come to Emond's Field, Rand might have someday ventured up to Baerlon for trading or whatever, where he might meet Min and love her.  <br /><br />That's all speculating, of course, and mostly my tired ramblings.<br />SO:<br /><br />Each gal could represent a piece of Rand's past OR a way Rand's life might have turned out if the Pattern had woven differently.  <br /><br />Okay, flame away.  :-)<br /><br />~Eswana~<br /><br />


created: 2001-09-05 14:56:14
subject: <b>Rand is all of what 20?</b>
body:
Think about how much our emotions and passions ruled our hearts. It's Concievable that he truly loves all three women and is attracted to them because he's young, they share an independant spirit that he likes and they are beautifull. Simple and plain as that. But then again I am probably wrong.<br /><br /><br /><br />Random <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br />El Coyote<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Random Gaidin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br />El Coyote <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-06-12 14:11:27
subject: <b>3 girls</b>
body:
Actually Eswana, your I like your idea... it makes a lot more sense than other theories I've read.<br /><br />But also, surely I'm not the only person to notice how similar the names Ilyena (sp?) and Elayne are.  But i don't really have a theory for that... maybe it's just coincedence.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Dan Asha'man</font><p></p>


created: 2003-11-03 18:57:15
subject: <b>Three Lovers</b>
body:
There have been a lot of points about Rand being Dragon, Car'a'carn and Coramoor.  Maybe each girl is the rebirth of each of his different title's lovers . . .<br />


created: 2004-02-27 19:54:51
subject: <b>Three women equal one woman</b>
body:
I have said this on another theory that may or may not get posted but think about it. Why could a woman not be born again, answer LEWIS SHATTERED HER SOUL.<br /><br />&quot;Holy fractured females, Batman&quot; (sorry could not resist)<br /><br />Anyway, think about it, why is the dragon feared by the dark one above all else, answer, he got a weapon worse than balefire up his sleeve that he only used once in his past life, for the sake of identification let us call it, &quot;The Reaper Weave&quot;. He uses the reaper weave on Illyena in an attempt to destroy her soul, note he did use balefire a whole lot also, but that just burns you from the pattern, not annihalte your soul. Do not ask me the logic behind choosing that weave, but hey Lewis was insane at the time. So instead of completely shattering her soul guess what, he fractures it, into three souls, aka Aviendra, Min and Elyane. Does anyone else see one hell of plot twist here, maybe after they die the creator actually gets of his divine arse and heals Illyena for Rand as a reward.<br /><br />I have theories on other potential likely plot twists, but at the moment they are waiting to be posted. Here is my two cents, you do not like it, laugh away.


created: 2005-02-17 17:40:14
subject: <b>interesting,</b>
body:
but why cant ilyena be reborn?<br /><br />On a side note, i believe rand remembers vaguely holding a woman(ilyena) with the exact shade of hair elayne had. <br /><br />P.S, ELAYNE SUCKS.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">-Sabin<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2005-05-22 00:25:17
subject: <b>Agree while disagree</b>
body:
I agree that their the rebirth of Ilyne, but disagree with why the three are loved.....<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Journey to the Tiger Sea,<br />Where legends die and stories be,<br />Where royalty rise and fall,<br />And Wotmania rules them all.</font><p></p>


created: 2007-03-19 21:44:41
subject: <b>coincidence</b>
body:
the fact that Elayne and Ilyena are names almost identical in composition 'could' be coincidence, but i sincerely doubt RJ would just leave something like that to coincidence.<br /><br />Elayne obviously has a strong resemblance to Ilyena, particularily with her hair, which isn't exactly a common shade anywhere but the Aiel waste.<br /><br />the one thing that really seems hard to swallow with the above theory is the necessity to theorize a weave we've never seen or even heard of for it to be plausible.  <br /><br />i do like the idea of each woman being the woman meant for Rand if the pattern had carried his life in different ways.  but then, since it was shown to Rand that in some weaves of the pattern where he stayed in the Two Rivers, he married Egwene and was happy with her... wouldn't it tie her in a similar way as well, since she'd tied into the other possible ways the pattern could've gone in a similar fashion?<br /><br />and unlike Min, we have seen evidence that if Rand had stayed in the two rivers, it was very likely he would've married Egwene, not traveled to Baerlon and met and married Min.


created: 2001-06-30 08:37:58
subject: <b>hmmm</b>
body:
The seanchan dont have to use saidin to make a'dam. They are made by damane only.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> Moradi <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/min.gif" border="0" /> Liker of Egwene <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> &quot;Tai'shar Isle of Madmen!&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-18 01:06:58
subject: <b>Well....</b>
body:
Maybe thats why Elayne was able to make a perfect a'dam for Moghedien.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/baalzamon.gif" border="0" /> Daemisoth <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/baalzamon.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angry.gif" border="0" /> Destroyer of Worlds <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angry.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-24 03:45:37
subject: <b>Idea</b>
body:
I belive that each Ter'angreal was made differntly, simple ones could be made using just one power, just as most knowns weaves.  Thus you only need Salidar to make a female adam.  I belive a male adam can only be made using salidin.  <br /><br />However complex Ter'angreal just as the complex weaves of the AOL requires both powers.  Elayne was able to make perfect copies of the ones that require channeling because they are simple and only for women.  You could probaly make a male version of those if you used salidin.<br /><br />Now you take a complex Ter'angreal like the ring that works for anybody man or woman, that also allows channeling and you need to use both powers.  Chances are the flawed copies Elayne made will only work for a woman since it has only salidar, since it has only the one power you can only enter weakly similar to with the Ter'angreal that require you to channel.


created: 2002-06-16 17:31:17
subject: <b>Elayne's Talent</b>
body:
Elayne can make ter'angreal that work... the stone ring ter'angreal and a'dam are examples....<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" /> Semirhage Fan <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Moiraine SuperFan <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lan.gif" border="0" /> Lan Inspector <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lan.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/birgitte.gif" border="0" /> Nynaeve lover <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/birgitte.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/shy.gif" border="0" /> Nynaeve's most devoted, loyal, and spazmastic fan <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/shy.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/nynaeve.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Yellow Ajah <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/nynaeve.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Nynessa Sedai <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-12-12 22:03:18
subject: <b>Salidar???</b>
body:
Salidar and salidin??  You must mean saidar and saidin, but I have guess to venture.  I bet the renegade Asha'man led by Logain or Taim, depending will start up a town and call it Salidin.<br /><br />And BTW, the ring ter'angreal doesn't work correctly because the people who use it appear fuzzy.<br /><br />Just my thoughts.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Sewiouswy.</font><p></p>


created: 2004-07-26 03:59:20
subject: <b>i dont think so for the seals ........</b>
body:
The seals arent made only from saidin ... because all we know that the ... saidin made cuendillar is black ... and ... the half of the seals are white ... and ... that means that they are created with usng of saidar ! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />


created: 2008-04-11 20:09:07
subject: <b>Why was only Saidin tainted?</b>
body:
I agree that the seals are half black half white because saidin and saidar were both used to make the cuendillar.  However, if this is true, then how come only saidin is tainted and not saidar also? You would think that the DO is powerful enought to taint them both.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Remember remember<br />the fifth of November,<br />the gunpowder, treason, and plot.<br />I know of no reason why the gunpowder's treason,<br />should ever be <br />forgot. <br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-04-18 00:00:00
subject: <b>Rand will marry Elayne first</b>
body:
I think that Rand will marry Elayne first because she is pregnant with his child. In Randland having premarital sex is frowned apoun, so i think getting someone pregnant will be considered really  bad. Besides Elayne is not a regular person she is the future queen of Andor. It would be inapproite of her to have a child out of wedlock. I think that as soon as she tells Rand he will want to marry her. And also i dont think that eventually he will marry Min and Aviendha too. I think now that Elayne is pregnant Morgase and Lini will somehow find their way back to Andor. Well if not Morgase then at least Lini because we herd her say that she intends to raise Elayne's babies too.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;It is better to sit alone than in company with the bad; and it is better still to sit with the good than alone. It is better to speak to a seeker of knowledge than to remain silent; but silence is better than idle words.&quot; <br />Hadith<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-04-18 00:00:00
subject: <b>rand will marry elayne first</b>
body:
I think that Rand will marry Elayne first because she is pregnant with his child. In Randland having premarital sex is frowned apoun, so i think getting someone pregnant will be considered really bad. Besides Elayne is not a regular person she is the future queen of Andor. It would be inapproite of her to have a child out of wedlock. I think that as soon as she tells Rand he will want to marry her. And also i dont think that eventually he will marry Min and Aviendha too. I think now that Elayne is pregnant Morgase and Lini will somehow find their way back to Andor. Well if not Morgase then at least Lini because we herd her say that she intends to raise Elayne's babies too.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;It is better to sit alone than in company with the bad; and it is better still to sit with the good than alone. It is better to speak to a seeker of knowledge than to remain silent; but silence is better than idle words.&quot; <br />Hadith<br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-24 00:21:11
subject: <b>about Elaida's Fortelling</b>
body:
That fortelling of Elaida's you mentioned first, I always got the impression that it refered to Tigraine.  As I recall, the Foretelling said that the world would depend on the ruling house of Andor.  And a son born of that house ends up being the Dragon Reborn.   Can't get much more important than that.   <br />It tends to reason that the best explanation is always the simplest.


created: 2001-10-22 17:51:41
subject: <b>yup.</b>
body:
i always thought the foretelling referred to the royal house of andor at the time elaida made her fortelling (which was 25 years ago, which was a couple years before tigraine went to the waste to become a maiden). i think basically, elaida's just had the wrong idea over what it means for the last quarter century.


created: 2001-10-24 19:48:17
subject: <b>Interesting</b>
body:
I think that is interesting, although I think that Rand probably could find out a lot about angreal etc from good ol<br />LTT<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Lord Tiger VII <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /> Dagashei <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> lord_tiger_vii@hotmail.com <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /> dagashei@hotmail.com <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Wise Guy <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /> Observer of Imbeciles <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-19 17:38:19
subject: <b>Elayne's purpose</b>
body:
Aren't the seals terangreal? That explains Elayne's purpose in the Last Battle quite nicely, seh will be the one to develop a new and better seal.


created: 2002-03-10 17:11:39
subject: <b>Choedan kal</b>
body:
i think that when the last battle comes one of the keys to the big statues might be broken, and it will be Elayne that makes a new one.<br /><br />just a thought


created: 2002-03-13 19:21:17
subject: <b>Re: Choedan Kal</b>
body:
If you know the name, you read WH.  If you read WH, you know the female access key is already broken.  There is also a broken access key in the Panarch's Palace in Tanchico.  Egwene picked it up in T'A'R, and Lanfear mentioned its existence when Rand found the male key. Perhaps studying the access key(s) would give Elayne insight on creating new angreal and sa'angreal.  It is a ter'angreal, which she already understands, but it functions like, and is connected to, sa'angreal.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Cannoli<br />&quot;I'm German-Irish&quot; - Tom Hagen<br />&#8220;There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men&quot; - Edmund Burke<br /><b>Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!</b><br />Deus vult!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-13 02:26:33
subject: <b>i always thought that</b>
body:
elaida's foretelling was about rand, because of his lineage. but maybe your'e right, elaida only mentioned the royal line, not getting any more specific, and elayne is daughter-heir now. maybe they both play a big role.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><b> kimosabe </b><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2004-05-27 19:56:30
subject: <b>LMAO</b>
body:
taringail???<br /><br />uhhh... it's tigraine.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">hot damn.</font><p></p>


created: 2004-08-26 14:54:51
subject: <b>Given that Elaida's reaction to her Foretellings are alway ironic....</b>
body:
Elaida's reaction to her Foretellings are alway ironic (e.g. Foretelling Egwene's victory and thinking that it's her own or Foretelling that the AS will walk the grounds of the BT and thinking that that meant its destruction), I think that it's quite clear that the Foretelling that the Royal House of Andor would be the key to the last battle is about Rand. I don't think that you can get anymore of a ket figure than Rand. And it makes it so that Elaida &quot;wasted&quot; twenty years of her life in an attempt to tie herself to House Trakand in order to prepare for TG.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Kalessin</font><p></p>


created: 2008-07-20 09:29:30
subject: <b>Nothing Important</b>
body:
wotmania, I absolutely LOVE your side comment about the POSSIBILITY of Rand being important at the Last Battle !!!!!


created: 2001-03-28 00:00:00
subject: <b>Min's Power</b>
body:
Min's limited power to tell the future based on aura's around people she sees, is simply that. a power. Theres no reason why. she just can. Why does Mat remember the old tongue before he ever goes to the Waste? Because he can. Why can Perrin and Elyas speak to the wolves? because they can. Why can Hurin smell violence? Because he can. Someone ( i forget who exactly ) stated, in the books, that ' Old skills are being remembered', such as Wolfbrothers, as well as sniffers. Why is Min's power any different? Think of it like an Aiel. She can, because she can.


created: 2001-06-16 16:02:15
subject: <b>Skewed</b>
body:
I think you have made one HUGE mistake in this theory.  You say that Min can see her visions because she is from the land of the Finns.  That makes no difference, as unless she is a Finn, being in the Finnland would not matter one way or another.  If all you had to do was go to Finnland, people would be jumping through doorways left and right, so that they could see the future.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">ph34r!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-06 01:58:11
subject: <b>*cries*</b>
body:
It made sense when I was writing it, though it didn't come out as I wished.  I still think there's a connection between Min and the Finns.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><font color="blue"><b>Arok Manok</b></font><font color="green"> - Ex-admin Extraordinaire</font><br />Future Post-Apocalypse Warlord<br /><br /><img src="images/personalsmilies/2241.gif" /><br /><br />I'd rather be throwing a frisbee right now</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-26 19:17:24
subject: <b>good call</b>
body:
I AGREE AND HAVE ONE THING TO ADD, WHEN THE FINN READ THE FUTURE THEY SEEM TO BE LOOKING OVER THE HEAD OF MAT. THIS IS PROOF THAT THEY ARE READING HIS AURA, JUST LIKE MIN DOES.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/baalzamon.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-13 03:03:18
subject: <b>This has nothing to do with anything, but....</b>
body:
Did anyone else reading the posts find it funny that chumpy5 typed all in caps??? (Hmm, a DO wannabe? just kidding)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />Green Ajah<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br />Desiring to join the Wotmania Theatre Guild<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" />Proudly sticking a spoke in the Wheel<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-10 08:45:55
subject: <b>Nothing in relation</b>
body:
How come there are no theories about Aviendha??????<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/elayne.gif" border="0" /> Aimee <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Money talks sense in a language all nations understand</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-05 07:00:20
subject: <b>not that I agree but....</b>
body:
wasnt there a line when mat was in the second doorway, something about how wise he was to ask for leave taking?  this implies that just because you can get in and ask for 3 requests, doesnt mean you will get out. perhaps all those who go in are trapped there, which would fit with the theory quite nicely about becomeing slaves. maybe not slaves exactly, but definatly trapped there.  mat accidently asked to leave, therefore he got out, but the finns killed him for it.  (and YES, this is where mat died and lived again.  although there is much speculation about whether or not he really died there, the aelfinn specifically said he must go to ruidean to die and live again...)


created: 2002-01-28 15:37:15
subject: <b>Re: Min the Finn</b>
body:
Perhaps the Finn have discovered a process for making pleather and the Finn was really wearing something from Fredericks of Hollywood?<br />What do you think?


created: 2002-02-07 04:20:40
subject: <b>Yay Telamon</b>
body:
&quot;What was asked is given, the price must be paid.&quot;<br /><br />Lots of people used to visit the Finns back in the day (they say so). And just like they killed Mat, they probably killed some other dude who asked for something. They wouldn't need to go anywhere.


created: 2002-03-15 10:23:49
subject: <b>right on !!!</b>
body:
yo, your theory is a poor one ... but you're right on the money. i guess that the finn's decided to have a love-child between themselves in the waking world and left her to rot in Baerlorn, or wherever Min was picked up.<br /><br />i'm sold on the idea that Min is a Finn because ...<br /><br />Three sets of slitted eyes lifted from him - reluctantly, it seemed - and studied the air above his head.     - Mat, tSR ch.14, p.252<br />&quot;To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons!&quot;<br />&quot;To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was!&quot;<br />&quot;To give up half the light of the world to save the world!&quot;<br />Together they howled like steam escaping under pressure. &quot;Go to Rhuidean, son of battles! Go to Rhuidean, trickster! Go, gambler! Go!&quot;     - the Aelfinn, to Mat, tSR ch.15, p.253<br /><br /><br />ITs just too coincidence that they look above Mat's head, just as Min looks there to see things/auras ... her method and interpretation may be a little askew because the Finn's only speak in clever rhetoric, instead of describing thing literally as Min does.<br /><br />besides all that ... their names rhyme.<br /><br />Min is a Finn.


created: 2002-04-18 15:15:00
subject: <b>Ladies and Gents, I just found out that...</b>
body:
This theory was originally posted on the old site on April 28, 2000.  (The old site at www.geocities.com/wotmania  I think.  It was the second theory in the Misc. category.)  I do so love hitting that mildstone.<br /><br />It's true that other people come there and they could just be wearing the skin of people who came there before, but unless there's another way in, very few people have been coming in lately.  Berelain's line held the one doorway for years and the other was in Rhuidean.  I have wondered how many of the Aiel who never returned died because of the ter'angreal near the heart, not in the glass columns, but in any case, very few humans have been going to the land of the Finn. As it were, it seems unlikely that the one would have a human leather vest thingy if it were so hard to come by, not to mention so old.  I still believe that they have human slaves, and I also believe that the point where the Finn looks over Mat's head further cements the theory.<br /><br />I'm gonna be throwing the link all over the place when this theory is proven true. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><font color="blue"><b>Arok Manok</b></font><font color="green"> - Ex-admin Extraordinaire</font><br />Future Post-Apocalypse Warlord<br /><br /><img src="images/personalsmilies/2241.gif" /><br /><br />I'd rather be throwing a frisbee right now</font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-15 01:32:59
subject: <b>you could be half right</b>
body:
I think you're on the right track. What I think really happened is that a Finn had a child with one of the slave women, and she escaped through the tower of Ghenjei somehow, which happens to be nearby Baerlon(sort of) and then when she got to Baerlon she found Min's &quot;father&quot; and asked him to take care of her. That explains how she can see the auras, but only understands a few of them, and why she doesn't see them on everybody. <br /><br />Also, Min only said that Rand would fail without a woman who is dead: those were her words, but it implies that a woman who she thinks is dead will be there, and that could be either Lanfear(who is probably still alive if Moiraine is) or Moiraine that I can think of. The other way it can mean any number of people, including the heroes that come when Mat blows the horn, since it's said that the horn has to be there at the last battle, and they are all dead.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" />&quot;The Black Knight Always triumphs!!!!!&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-08 10:50:33
subject: <b>I agree with Blademaster</b>
body:
I was thinking as Blademaster said, a Finn had a girl with a woman who escaped. I really enjoy the connection between Min and the Finn, but I don't think Min is a Finn in disguise because in Min's point of view, there is never any allusion to Finn.<br />That's all.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/min.gif" border="0" /> &lt;== Is she Min? I've always thought she has brown eyes</font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-10 05:23:59
subject: <b>min fin</b>
body:
DOes Min even know who her parents are? She was raised by her aunts wasn't she? I think she is part finn and doesnt know it.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Daughter of the Ten Moons<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /> Mat's right hand girl <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /><br />&quot;Even dolls have a limit, and Timmy has reached his. What he needs right now is a big Martimmy&quot;<br />                - Timmy, to his Princess</font><p></p>


created: 2002-10-11 15:13:00
subject: <b>Min and Mat</b>
body:
I agree that Min may be part Finn (based on whichever theory). It would also nicely fit into the wild theories about Min's aging or not: maybe Finns simply live much longer than humans, so a half-Finn would also have a longer than normal life.<br /><br />Another important point to make is about Mat: the point where he died and lived again was NOT in Ruidhean (there he ALMOST died), but in Caemlyn. There he really died in the attack by Rahvin, but was revived after Rahvin was thouroughly balefired (remember balefire burns out the thread from the pattern, undoing actions of the victim for the burnback time, so Rahvins attack was undone: no attack - no casualties)


created: 2003-06-13 15:03:23
subject: <b>I think your right</b>
body:
It would make sense for Min's mother to be a Finn. Because we know about her dad, I remember reading that she worked in the mines with him at one point and thats why she's a tomboy. Later her dad died and her aunts took care of her. But her mother is never mentioned. So I do think is half Finn. It seems to fit well.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Shadow Spinner <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" />Spin nightmares out of shadows<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-08-01 13:50:00
subject: <b>Yep</b>
body:
Shadowspinner and Blademaster are correct, I mean, it all makes sense when you look at it that way.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Brianne Aes Sedai, First Weaver of the Yellow Ajah<br />Bonded to Daniel Gaidin<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />High Priestess of academic theories<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" />Amyrlin Seat of the Wheel of Time Club in Oklahoma City<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> <br />'Helluo librorum'<br />'Bene legere saecla vincere.' <br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-11-11 12:25:27
subject: <b>Mat didn't die in Caemlyn. His death was undone.</b>
body:
Effectively, Mat's death never occurred in Caemyln, because the Balefire prevented it from happening.  On the other hand, he strangled to death in Rhuidean, and was ressucitated by Rand via, I think, CPR.  He died and lived again.<br /><br /><br />Quick question for all the part-Finn people: If Min's part-Finn, how come she looks wholly human, if a bit boyish?  Would it not be odd to show no sign of her father, as it were, other than her ability?<br /><br />Still, since Min's ability has nothing to do with the Power, and has not been seen elsewhere like other Old Things (Dreaming and Wolfbrothers), it seems likely that it is tied to the Finns in some way, whatever that way may be, and if we ever see a trip through the Tower of Ghenji, as so many (myself chief among them early on) have predicted, I would be surprised to not see her involved in some way, along with Thom, Mat, Olver and either Perrin or Birgitte.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><font color="blue"><b>Arok Manok</b></font><font color="green"> - Ex-admin Extraordinaire</font><br />Future Post-Apocalypse Warlord<br /><br /><img src="images/personalsmilies/2241.gif" /><br /><br />I'd rather be throwing a frisbee right now</font><p></p>


created: 2004-03-03 11:51:13
subject: <b>Nay!!</b>
body:
The Finns in that doorway that Mat went through in Rhuidean (or whatever) had the leather straps, right?<br /><br />NOT SO! For the Finns in the doorway in Tear.<br /><br />The Finns in Tear were the ones who gave him all the correct answers about his future, not the ones in Rhuidean.<br /><br />So for your theory to be correct, the Finns in TEAR would have to have slaves and one would have been Min (or her mother, or whatever) and if they weren't wearing leather straps made out of skin, we can't assume they had slaves at all. If The Finns would even make clothing out of their slaves...ew.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">~Nierlisse~<br /><br />&quot;What can I say? I did it all for the wookies.&quot;<br />&quot;The wookies?!?&quot;<br />&quot;The wookies.&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2005-02-18 16:01:30
subject: <b>Not to spoil any hopes you had...</b>
body:
but Min isn't connected at all to the Aelfinn, according to RJ.  <br /><br />http://www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html<br /><br />


created: 2005-03-28 18:59:04
subject: <b>but wait</b>
body:
Moraine wasnt the only central female character presumed dead at this time, so was Lanfear and since Lanfear has been reincarnated by the dark one she will help Rand win the last battle.


created: 2006-02-03 22:05:27
subject: <b>question?</b>
body:
Now i only see one problem with you theory. Is it not true that  Rand also believes Morgase to be dead? So could she not be the woman in Min's viewing?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><font face="times new roman">&quot;I've got to go back to drinking now.&quot;<br />-Samantha Brown</font></font><p></p>


created: 2008-08-07 21:49:28
subject: <b>LOL</b>
body:
Siting here reading all these comments and when you get to the end the last three counteract all previus quite throurly<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I may be crazy but im still more---- OHH SHINY PENNY!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Fear the ninja smiley<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/ninja.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />ohhh pretty fire..Most not touch....OUCH IT BURNS!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-03-29 00:00:00
subject: <b>Aligning the Matrix</b>
body:
I always figured Aligning the Matrix was what was done to make ' Aes Sedai-wrought steel '. This is another one of the forgotten Talents. Besides, i agree with the theory that ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal all have to be made with both halfs of the One Power. Kinda like the Stone of Tear. Women are good at water and air, but Men are better at Fire and Earth. by the way, this occured to me recently. Callandor rests in The Stone of Tear. Sword-that-is-not-a-sword. Sword in the Stone. Sound familar?


created: 2001-10-13 16:20:46
subject: <b>Thoughts</b>
body:
I like this theory, too, but I want to add something to it.<br />The Seanchan have a ton of chicks (it's okay to hate me for saying 'chicks' when referring to women - i'm pretty fed up with females right now and don't care) who can channel, both the sul'dam and damane.  <br />On a sidenote, I think damane should be spelled dam'ane, but it's Jordan's writing, so screw it.<br />When the damane are made damane, they get a nice little present, the a'dam, an evil little device that makes a ball-and-chain look like an X-box for Christmas.<br />Where did all these a'dam come from?<br />Surely, they weren't all made before the Luthair Paendrag's departure, so some sul'dam or damane must have made them over in Seanchan.<br />So, some of them obviously have this talent, while the Aes Sedai don't.<br />Why, you ask?<br />I don't know, but suffice it to say this issue will be important as the Fall of the Seanchan plotline plays out.<br />We might even see it in the next book.<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Stoplight at ninety miles an hour<br />On a bridge that was going up.<br />This was my life.<br />I have it now. I understand.<br />This thought that crushes my mind was once a man,<br />And your name goes on forever<br />And your name goes on and on.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-15 11:27:18
subject: <b>Hmm...</b>
body:
&lt;body&gt;<br />Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is.  You have to see it for yourself. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;<br />go to : &lt;a href='http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/r/i/rickyb/'&gt;Ricky O'Keeffe's Artpage!&lt;/a&gt;<br /><br />&lt;/body&gt;


created: 2002-03-13 12:51:42
subject: <b>egwene?</b>
body:
We see later in the story that a'dam are quite simple to make because Elayne manages to recreate one on her first time. and anyhowz who remembers that when egwene was caught the sul'dam said that egwene might be one of the select few who could make a'dam because or her affinity with metals. this proves that the Seanchean are able to recreate a'dam but I doubt that they can make mor than that because the a'dam are REALLY simple ter'angreal.


created: 2003-02-09 09:59:52
subject: <b>stengthening metals</b>
body:
In Chapter 39, LOC, page 734, Egwene says &quot;All very well to know,or example,that Aligning the Matrix makes metals stronger......&quot;I think this refers to the making of cuendillar, not power-wrought weapons, as that was not lost after the Breaking, rather they just stopped making them because o the Three Oaths.


created: 2003-02-09 10:00:24
subject: <b>stengthening metals</b>
body:
In Chapter 39, LOC, page 734, Egwene says &quot;All very well to know,or example,that Aligning the Matrix makes metals stronger......&quot;I think this refers to the making of cuendillar, not power-wrought weapons, as that was not lost after the Breaking, rather they just stopped making them because of the Three Oaths.


created: 2003-02-09 10:00:57
subject: <b>stengthening metals</b>
body:
In Chapter 39, LOC, page 734, Egwene says &quot;All very well to know,for example,that Aligning the Matrix makes metals stronger......&quot;I think this refers to the making of cuendillar, not power-wrought weapons, as that was not lost after the Breaking, rather they just stopped making them because of the Three Oaths.


created: 2003-04-10 11:39:08
subject: <b>Mmm... This may have be said already elsewhere but...</b>
body:
Well, if anyone is interested in Physics, they know that in our world metallic atoms arrays themselves along a pattern specific to that metal. For example, pure copper arrays itself into something like a cube with an atom at each corner plus one atom in the center of that cube.<br /><br />Furthermore, we know that any flaws (be it microscopic) in the smelting of mettalic objects diminish theirs resistances.<br /><br />Actually, any object made of metal nowadays, even described as pure, is not 100% pure. There's still that 0,00000000001% of impurities that cannot be extracted (because the purer you want it, the more expensive the process will become).<br /><br />Wouldn't 'Aligning the matrix' just mean that? Restoring the alignment of the metallic atoms so that the designed metallic object don't have any impurity thus any flaws?<br />That object would be exactly 100% the alloy you want it to be, with no molecular flaw (which naturally means it's stronger)?<br /><br />Just my two cents...<br /><br />Hope to read your point of view...


created: 2001-09-10 21:46:37
subject: <b>they already know how to link</b>
body:
end of book 9, a couple asha'man had to link with some Aes Sedai to guard Rand and Nyneave while they cleansed the source<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Skye MageBlade <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> &quot;I shall see you through the gates of Heaven my friend, when I come to burn them down&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-01 10:37:41
subject: <b>Tears and Laughter</b>
body:
Though I cannot quote exactly I remember hearing throughout the last two books that Cadsuane will teach Rand to Cry and to laugh.


created: 2003-01-08 18:27:17
subject: <b>Male linking to male not possible</b>
body:
I don't remember exactly where, but Sorilea and Cadsuane when they first talk discuss the need for Rand and the rest of the Asha'man to remember that they're human and how to laugh and cry.<br /><br />As for Cadsuane teaching them to link, it is not possible.  Somewhere, again I'm not sure where, it states that a circle must contain at least as many women as it does men.  It also is impossible for a man to initiate a link.  That is why Rand had to let go of the source in order for Nynaeve to link with him in WH.


created: 2005-04-03 11:08:31
subject: <b>I Agree to an extent</b>
body:
I think that Cadsuane will teach them how to link in a sence that she will teach how to link with 72 people, the largest link possible.  In LoC, either Graendal or Semirhage say that if they could do that link the &quot;chosen&quot; would be destroyed but that knowledge of how to do it has been lost.  I think that Cadsuane will teach them how now that men have been accepted into other links


created: 2001-08-25 16:07:31
subject: <b>Fools!</b>
body:
What's with all this saying &quot;I think Cadsuane will teach this...&quot;? It's obvious that she's going to teach them how to laugh and cry again. I figured it out the first time the books practically spelt it out. Come on guys, it's really obvious!


created: 2001-11-14 18:47:39
subject: <b>In agreement with prior post</b>
body:
In Book 8 Cadsuane and Sorilea agree to teach rand to laugh again.  Min has also had her viewing of Cadsuane teaching Rand and the Asha'man something.  What she isn't sure.  It only makes sense to put the two together.  The Asha'man are being trained to be hard weapons just like Rand.  If they are so hard they break what good will they do Rand at TG.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> They call me the Fireman <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-08 14:25:14
subject: <b>do they deserve it?</b>
body:
for all the bitching that the AS do about Rand being arogent they are 3 times worse. They dont deserve the respect of the Asha'man or anyone else for that matter. I for one am glad Rand is putting them down a notch or 2.


created: 2002-03-15 15:03:47
subject: <b>Respect, and who deserves it................</b>
body:
Maybe Cad will teach Rand (and the Asha'man) humility, or laughter, or whatever, but what I want to know is who is going to teach the AS the same. Far and away, they are the most ARROGANT bunch of bitches (real or imagined) I've ever seen. The AS (male and female) in the Age of Legends havnt come across like that, so why should they do so now? Because they wield Saidar? Respect is earned, not required.


created: 2002-04-17 03:06:11
subject: <b>A two-way street</b>
body:
It seems fairly obvious to me that the teaching will be fairly mutual.  Cadsuane will teach Rand and the Asha'man some humility.  At the same time, Rand will teach the Aes Sedai something of temperence.  Rand's already starting to teach them some humility by subjecting them to him (actually it's the Wise Ones doing the teaching, but as a result of Rand gaining control over the AS).  The Guardians will balance the Servants--maybe that refers more to temprament than numbers.  I don't know if I really believe that, but it's worth a thought.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /> Proud Papa <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Founder of the Wotmania Writers' Guild <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lan.gif" border="0" /> Warder to no one. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-08-29 00:09:08
subject: <b>It Would Be Nice</b>
body:
I agree that the AS need to be brought down a rung or 10.  We already know what Cad is going to teach them.  But As the post above me says, I also think it will be circular.  In that the ashaman or at least Rand will do a little teaching of his own.<br /><br />Moiraine is the only one who understands that if you want him to work with you, you have to work with him.  No one else, AS or otherwise, has seem to grasp this concept.  The sad thing is that it is the AS, Wise Ones, and nobles who have made him so paranoid.  If anything I would like to see some of them admit it without first having Rand, Taim, Ashaman, or whoever punishing them first.<br /><br />For being so smart and powerful the AS are incredibly blind to such a simple thing as human compassion.  TG is fast approaching and everyone is squabbling over is going to be the one to lead rand into the Last Battle.


created: 2003-05-14 14:39:18
subject: <b>On Aes Sedai Respect</b>
body:
I have to disagree slightly with the previous 2 posts.  Though certain factions of the Aes Sedai community are arrogant and unhelpful, many, most notably the Salidar tower, have a genuine desire to work with Rand to win the Last Battle.  Rand is as arrogant as they are for not realizing this.<br /><br />-Squirrel Sedai <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/shy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tinfoilhat.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Squirrel Sedai <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2008-12-24 20:34:59
subject: <b>Cadsuane will teach trust</b>
body:
Other than the madness, the thing most responsible for bringing down the AoL was a lack of trust. Aes Sedai couldn't link to destroy shadowspawn and enemies, because they could not trust one another. People were turning darkfriend right and left, men were going inside like flies dropping in winter. There was no trust, so there was no coordinated strength and effort.<br /><br />When she teaches them all how to trust one another, then she has forged perhaps the greatest weapon the world might ever find against the DO, Dreadlords, or anyone else.


created: 2001-08-10 15:04:14
subject: <b>!</b>
body:
Bingo! My thoughts exactly. My friends don't follow this one, though...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-09 08:09:01
subject: <b>erm, perhaps you mean Humanity?</b>
body:
surely,....no you've got a damned good point there, however humanity is also needed, I believe that humility is a part of humanity or I could be talking out of my rectum (which, sadly, is often the case).<br /><br />I also feel that is more than just humility that Rand is closing himself off from.<br /><br />I suspect that Cadsuane will try to teach Rand a wide variety of emotions, love, fear, hate, compassion, forgiveness.  You name it, he'll lose it and she'll try and re-teach it.<br /><br />I suspect that Moiraine may well have to get involved in this, just a feeling though.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" />Lord_Foul<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/disapprove.gif" border="0" />One day I'll spend more than 2 minutes on a post<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/disapprove.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-28 06:01:12
subject: <b>correct</b>
body:
we already know that her intentions are good. you don't have to prove it.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">i'm bored</font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-17 09:54:00
subject: <b>Cadsuane...</b>
body:
iis an arrogant fool who thinks she is worth to control the chosen one. It is true that she is strong and she is not stupid, but she seems to think: &quot;If it leads to success, I'll sacrifice every Aes Sedai alive...<br />...Exept for me, of course.&quot;<br />She thinks all too much about herself to serve the Dragon. Perhaphs her promise helped in this regard (In book nine she was better at knowing her place), but she is still to proud, to arrogant. I'd teach her a lesson of respect from which she wouldn't walk as proud.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Topace_III<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/seanchan.gif" border="0" /><br />Proud property of some Seanchan lord.<br />I just CAN'T remember his name....<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2004-03-21 05:25:13
subject: <b>Maybe...</b>
body:
...this is what Rand needs, somebody who he's been told he needs but she doesn't seem to care much for him. Rand is too arrogant himself, he expects nearly everyone to jump when he introduces himself. She doesn't do this, she helps him I think by making him chase after her. By proving to him he still NEEDS to chase if he wants certain things. He needs to know he isn't the creator.


created: 2001-11-13 07:32:47
subject: <b>Strange</b>
body:
You think Cadsuane will teach the ASHA'MAN some respect and cooperation to improve relations between Aes Sedai? Last time I checked 98% of the Aes Sedai wanted to uh, gentle and/or kill any Asha'man. Its kinda hard to cooperate with people who want to do nasty things to you eh :E~


created: 2002-07-20 13:15:00
subject: <b>Asha'man need manners?</b>
body:
What about the Aes Sedai? Am I the only one that sees them bullying everyone around, and thinking they know it all when they don't? The Aes Sedai need manners in lessons more than Rand's little group.


created: 2001-06-24 12:31:20
subject: <b>Cadsuane</b>
body:
Maybe humanity, but I don't think *anybody* can teach sanity, at least in terms of the Taint.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Efreet<br /><br />Extropian<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /> Incurable Optomist <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />Mainah<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" />Almighty ONSEC of MITSFS<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />Lover of Squaresoft, Manga, and Strategy Games<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/blush.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br />&quot;Liberate Natural Courgarness&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Reality is what you can get away with&quot;<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-24 17:12:20
subject: <b>Cadsuane teaching sanity????</b>
body:
Wouldn't you have to be sane to teach sanity?<br /><br />PS Sorry Cadsuane lovers (all two of you <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />)<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I like cookies.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-27 19:44:48
subject: <b>In a way...</b>
body:
No you cannot teach sanity, or hold of the taint, but now that the taint is gone, maybe she can help those who have succumbed to insanity.


created: 2002-01-09 07:54:50
subject: <b>Cadsuane will teach Humanity and compassion etc. or how to write a bad post.</b>
body:
It's pretty clear after having read book 9 that Cadsuane plans (I cannot say she will succeed as I don't know and quite frankly I don't want to,..yet) to teach Rand how to care again, yes in a way making him sane once more.<br /><br />Unfortunatly the problem with using words such as sane/insane (sorry can't be bothered to delve into the recesses of my mind right now) is that they are subject to interpretaion, as are all words.  Anyway back to my point(s).<br /><br />I don't see Rand as being insane, he has/is losing his humanity but not his sanity.  Rand is in a hideous situation which we are all hopefully aware of and is dealing with it by shutting himself off from as much of the world as he can,  I believe that this is done as he would become insane if he were to allow himself to fully 'feel' the world around him, this is a process of de-humanisation.  One of Rands ladies mentions that 'if he were stone before he was steel now' - WH.<br /><br />And back to the original thread of my thought.<br /><br />As Cadsuane has herself said (WH don't have books at hand) she will 'need to be there at the end to make him human again' - sorry bad paraphrasing.<br /><br />sorry poorly written point.<br /><br />CONCISE VERSION<br />Rand = Closing himself off from as much of the world as will let him, becoming harder - Cancerians should understand this.  Not insane, if he were he would be far more irrational than he his.<br />Cadsuane = Wants to make him cry, to feel, to regret, to forgive etc.<br /><br />Lord_Foul<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" />Lord_Foul<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/disapprove.gif" border="0" />One day I'll spend more than 2 minutes on a post<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/disapprove.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-11 03:33:27
subject: <b>A vague memory</b>
body:
I think it was indicated that Cadusane had bonded all of the men she had gentled.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Where did these Skimmers come from?  I mean if they didn't want to read the book they could have just Traveled to another author.  Why risk arriving at the wrong destination?  Why risk falling into darkness?</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-16 15:39:08
subject: <b>Nice</b>
body:
I like that idea, and would like to add to it.  Elaida's Foretelling said that the Black Tower would be destroyed, and Aes Sedai would walk it's grounds.  Maybe that means the black tower is dewstroyed because it merges with the White Tower, and thus is the &quot;Black Tower&quot; no longer.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">ph34r!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-08 15:56:44
subject: <b>Aes Sedai already walk the grounds of the Black Tower.</b>
body:
Part of Elaida's Foretelling has come to pass (the captured Aes Sedai). <br />As for the Black Tower being destroyed, well I think it will be destroyed from within.<br />There will probably be a fight between Taim and Logan.<br />Will Logan link with his Aes Sedai? Yes, I think that will be Taim's defeat.<br />


created: 2001-11-27 10:42:13
subject: <b>both towers....</b>
body:
The white tower will be broken by the fighting by the salidar AS and the tower AS.  The black tower will be destroyed by the struggle between the followers of Logain and the followers of Taim.  Maybe the remnents of each tower, black and white, will join to form the new White tower.<br /><br />Just an idea.


created: 2002-04-24 15:16:56
subject: <b>They've made a Good Start Already</b>
body:
Three of Rand's Asha'man have already entered into warder relationships with three of his Aes Sedai, on their own accord, without any pushing that we know of from Rand or Cadsuane or anyone else.  Consider also Gabrelle's comments about her experience with Logain.  It seems that once Aes Sedai and Asha'man are taken out of their normal traditions of opposition to each other, the natural draw between male and female takes over and they get together by themselves.  After all, the reason we've been given time and again that most Aes Sedai aren't married is that very few men can stand to be at such a disadvantage power-wise with their wives.  That won't be a problem for male channelers.<br /><br />Florian


created: 2002-07-02 10:36:45
subject: <b>I just have one problem</b>
body:
I like the idea of the Ashaman and Aes Sedai working together, but i don't like the idea that all Ashaman are Aes Sedai simply because they can channel.  I would hope that both groups could work in unison without losing their individuality(sp).


created: 2002-07-06 09:23:08
subject: <b>Asha'man &amp; Aes Sedai Unite? Not on your life!</b>
body:
Does anyone else happen to remember the whole discussion between Siuan and Egwene about what it IS to be Aes Sedai and not just some woman who can channel?  The Oath Rod &amp; the Three Oaths.  We already know that when Egwene takes over the Tower she has no intention of breaking the tradition of swearing the Oaths.  How could men ever be considered Aes Sedai then?  I don't personally believe that the Oath Rod works on men (though this is far from certain).  As we saw, when Sevannah asked Sammael if the Oath Rod could also be used on Rand, Sammael said it would take something else to control him.  Whether or not that was true, of course, depends on whether we were being told the truth by one of the biggest liars and schemers in Randland!  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />


created: 2001-06-21 14:29:54
subject: <b>I agree...</b>
body:
I agree wholly! i might add that Cadsuane knows a great deal about Saidin. For example, she knows Callandor isn't buffered. In addition, she has a good many ter'angreal about her. So it seems plausible that she knows much about the Power, and I prefer to think that she'll teach something about saidin than something about &quot;love, indness, compassion, barbie dolls&quot;<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><b><font color="dark yellow">A</font><font color="red">n</font><font color="orange">an</font><font color="red">k</font><font color="dark yellow">e</font></b><br />Creator of the <i>Glistering and Shining New and Improved Advanced Warder Spoon</i><br />Warder to Corail<br />Disciple-restaurator of WOOPAH!&#8482;<br />Vice-President of <b>BucketBaby's</b> fanclub -She Rocks!<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-28 20:18:25
subject: <b>Uber-Sedai</b>
body:
Cadsuane, what a card!<br />She seems to know so much and is practically a legend, but you can tell something may be up with her that is *ODD*<br />Perhaps a Ter*Angreal that allows her to use Saidin (Maybe not)<br />Anyway, I agree. Robert Jordan probably has rooms full of stuff relating these things, but I agree.<br /><br /><br />Crazed Weasel<br />M'Hael of Rodents<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><b><font color="174565">Yeah, it'll be more like the best MadTV sketch ever made ever. The one that you watch a go &quot;Um, that sketch was way too funny to be on MadTV.&quot;</font></b></font> ~ <i>Sore Thumbs</i><br /><br /><img src="images/personalsmilies/11141.gif" /><img src="images/personalsmilies/11141.gif" /><img src="images/personalsmilies/11141.gif" /><p><a href="http://www.wotmania.com/writersmessageboardshowmes" target="_blank">Stossville Zombie Incident: Episode One</a></p><p></p>


created: 2002-05-02 17:21:49
subject: <b>Not the only hint...</b>
body:
When Nynaeve goes through the &quot;past&quot;-part of her testing for accepted (tGH,p 340-341), she interacts with Aginor's use of Saidin (changes the direction of one of his lightning-bolts etc.) a bit more than we have seen in the series so far. I definitely think that Saidar and Saidin are not so far apart that the Aes Sedai wants to believe...


created: 2001-08-06 16:20:58
subject: <b>but how?</b>
body:
yeah, I agree.  The only remaining question is how's she gonna do that when she's such a self-important raging bitch.  I can't see why she doesn't inspire everyone she meets to kill her.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" />   the fiery redhead


created: 2001-11-13 07:39:44
subject: <b>Symbolic</b>
body:
As we all know now, the taint was cleansed without the last seals being broken. It is a good theory though. However, the embroidery Cadsuane Sedai made represented Rand most likely, him holding ALL Aes Sedai and Asha'man in his hands, or rather, under his power/influence. Maybe it represents the Whiter Tower also.


created: 2002-03-12 01:20:46
subject: <b>Break the Seals to fight Tarmon Gaidin</b>
body:
Before Fel was assasinated he sent Rand a message.  I can't be bothered looking it up but it was something like:<br />You must clear the ruble before you can build.<br />So, in order for Rand to reseal the Bore he must break all the seals, and in the process free the Dark One.  I'm betting this will be the Last Battle.


created: 2002-04-04 08:16:52
subject: <b>Yes, but...</b>
body:
Okay, good idea, but we now know that the seals were not part of cleansing the taint. I think, however, that the remaining seals might well have been broken by the cleansing, or at least damaged further. <br /><br />Remember, the DO tainted Saidin <i>while</i> the bore was being sealed, making the taint part of the sealing process itself. Perhaps removing the taint would have a devasting effect on the already-weakened seals? <br /><br />I have another theory I'm working on that the seals are in some way connected to Rand's ability to fight the Last Battle, but it's taking a lot of research.


created: 2002-05-14 11:59:43
subject: <b>Right idea, wrong result.</b>
body:
Good theory but we know now it's not entirely correct.  I think it's clear that Rand will eventually break all the seals to force the LB with the DO.  I rembember another section, I think it was one of Egwene's dreams but I'm not sure where it was, of a giant Rand walking towards the LB.  She heard the sound of crunching, looked down, and saw Rand walking over the seals and breakig them.  Whether this is what Cadsuane is going to &quot;teach&quot; is an intersting question.


created: 2002-05-28 20:38:43
subject: <b>Old hat</b>
body:
I used to think  that breakingthe seals was the key to cleansing saidin. Since &quot;Whinter's Heart&quot;, though, I believe that siadin is sleansed, if for no other reason that Rand learned from the Aelfinn how to cleanse the taint, and we know the Aelfinn give correct answers.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Awesome June Jones...I'm glad you took your 1-11 season to another WAC - expatriot. You truly are the most over-paid Division I coach. Go Bows!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-16 15:43:57
subject: <b>hmmmm...</b>
body:
Good theory!  wotmania is right, though.  Grady is the one who bonded his wife.  Dashiva is the one who was always talking to things no one else could see.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">ph34r!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-15 02:01:16
subject: <b>Yeah....</b>
body:
I also wouldn't consider Dashiva someone who could love, because a) he's probably a forsaken(as was previously pointed out) b) he tried to kill rand c) he's totally insane(or pretends to be) and d) he's dead <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" />Prince Kheldar<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />The Slickest Thief<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" />The Funniest Assassin<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" />That Most Dangerous of Men<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" />Prince Kheldar<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" />Master Theif<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />Practiced Liar<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />The Guide<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-10 09:44:40
subject: <b>uuh..</b>
body:
With the Taint gone, wouldn't the madness pretty much stop evolving?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i><font face="times new roman"><br />But the dogs you say they fed you to<br />Lay their muzzles in your lap<br />And the lions that they led you to<br />Lie down and take a nap</font><br /></i><font face="wingdings"><font color="blue">h</font></font></font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-29 23:11:32
subject: <b>Dashiva</b>
body:
warning **spoiler** if you have not read winters heart then skip this post.<br /><br />In Winter's Heart, when Rand is cleansing Saidin. Part of the scene goes to Dashiva's POV. It is Osan'gar thinking about the months of masquerading as Corlan Dashiva. either a) Dashiva never existed or b) there was a corlan dashiva but Osan'gar just got rid of him and took his identify. I think its the former.<br /><br />


created: 2002-09-25 08:50:09
subject: <b>agreed</b>
body:
I've read Winter's Heart but I still like the idea of willpower being the thing that should be learned.


created: 2001-04-15 00:00:00
subject: <b>Shot down <img src="images/smile.gif" /></b>
body:
interesting theory, but, in the last age (AOL), only saidin was used to seal up the bore in the dark ones prison...


created: 2001-06-11 03:47:03
subject: <b>Why?</b>
body:
they already know how to link when fain slashed Rand in Path of Daggers his healing process went Ashaman, Aes Sedai then both togeather if you reread it.  And besides that pardon me for asking but if this theory was posted on 1-23-01 like so many around here why hasn't anyone read winters heart.  RAnd And Nynaeve link to cleanse the taint and all the rest (probably because of those two wonderful healers) were able to do so as well.  I don't know what cadusane will teach them but its not linking and I also am positive its not the being human thing.<br /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Where did these Skimmers come from?  I mean if they didn't want to read the book they could have just Traveled to another author.  Why risk arriving at the wrong destination?  Why risk falling into darkness?</font><p></p>


created: 2001-12-12 23:37:52
subject: <b>Just How Old IS This Theory</b>
body:
We've seen men link in WH<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Emperor of Draco <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /> Lord Tiger VII <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /> Reigning Animal Lord <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /> Hater of Imbeciles <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jawa.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Wise Guy <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />        lord_tiger_vii_@hotmail.com</font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-13 04:07:28
subject: <b>both need respect</b>
body:
I belive that both partys will be either tought respect by Cadsuane or will be forced together by a greater danger maybe the Seachean. think about it neither the Asha&#8217;man respect the Aes Sedai nor vice versa. If Cadsuane dose bring them to a mutual agreement it will be because of the cleansing of saidin (wich i belive the reds will not belive) and because the seachean pose a greater threat then anything else at that presant moment. Another factor will of coarse the split in the tower wich will also be resolved by that either all the darkfriends will either be revield or the key ones will die due to unforseen crecumstances. Of coarse one twist of fate could change all this in that since Mat is taverin and it is assumed he will marrey the daughter of the nine moons (who is of coarse the heir to the throne of the seachean) might bring about the seachean being under rands controle and mat in yet another unusual perdicament. but that would only be if the currant empress dies wich could happen with the daughter gone and some family member seeing a spot open and try to seiz the throne in the absense of the current daugther heir (sound familiar?). If i go any futher i might go a lil overboard but please any comments to this is welcome.<br />lord brightmoon<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">You are never truly defeated untill you admit defeat.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br />if i shall die today then dang life suxs<br />what no java???? runs it's the end of the world<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-12-04 16:24:41
subject: <b>Forsaken Teaching? get real</b>
body:
I don't think the forsaken will teach anyone who might oppose them, except when forced to. After all, Mesaana tells Alviarin (Black Ajah) that if she passes on one scrap of her teachings, that she (Mesaana) will extinguish her.


created: 2002-05-06 17:31:26
subject: <b>Demandred again??</b>
body:
I think this is a good theory, except for the fact that I seriously doubt that Taim and Demandred are the same person.  I do agree with the idea that the ashaman will definitely not be happy about whatever it is that Cadsuane is going to teach them though.


created: 2002-10-16 12:52:27
subject: <b>I desagree...</b>
body:
Mazrim Taim IS NOT Demandred<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/min.gif" border="0" /> &lt;== Is she Min? I've always thought she has brown eyes</font><p></p>


created: 2006-01-22 19:37:27
subject: <b>good one!</b>
body:
if Taim is demandred, I have no trouble beleiving this. But I have trouble beleiving Taim is Demandred<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">we really need an edit button on the blackboard. I mean, who doesn't occasionally make a comment that (unintentionally) sounds really snooty, as if it insulted a lot of people's intelegence, then realize they mis-spelled it.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-14 00:03:20
subject: <b>Ornaments</b>
body:
There are several including a wel for saidar, an angreal and the one which went cool can sense channeling and tell what direction it comes from!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I am dead <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /><br />I mean Death <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" />The Darkness to <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> balance the light<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />More than a little insane<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br />AND MY HERO TALKS IN CAPITALS<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br />     &#223;&#174;&#220;&#169;&#163;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The grave is no bar to my call - inscription on a mighty HORN</font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-16 05:20:00
subject: <b>The seals cause the taint?</b>
body:
Umm what?  We have several instances of Forsaken referring to the counterstroke of the Dark One when Lews and friends sealed the bore.  Counterstroke is used to describe a deliberate action.  I think the DO caused Saidin to be tainted.


created: 2002-06-20 03:26:40
subject: <b>Does this hold now, after book 9?</b>
body:
Now, with the taint cleansed, does this theory still work? Does the cleansing of the taint mean that the plug of the hole is now right and not 'forced in'? Does this mean that thr Do will not rise?<br /><br />I'm confused


created: 2008-03-16 23:27:37
subject: <b>support</b>
body:
This is something that may support your theory- When Taim presented one of the seals to Rand, Lews Therin expressed a notable desire to &quot;break the seals&quot;. Is this just because he's insane, or does he know that the seals are the cause of the taint?


created: 2001-06-23 04:10:44
subject: <b>no!!!</b>
body:
linking isnt that hard!it was all success on first try! it's something more important.<br /><br />p.s. there is no taimandread<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">i'm bored</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-15 04:25:44
subject: <b>Nope.</b>
body:
Rand linked with Nynaeve easily enough. And Elaida's Fortelling said that &quot;sisters will walk its grounds.&quot; So unless the Asha'man take a drastic step and all turn into women, this would not work.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-05 18:51:30
subject: <b>Repect for Aes Sedai?</b>
body:
Ummm...seeing the AS as humans and acting respectful toward them? Umm it seems to me that CASSIE ought to teach HER AS that lesson. what a den for bitches.


created: 2002-08-09 16:58:18
subject: <b>Not linking</b>
body:
I don't know what it will be but I doubt it will be linking. Also, Aes Sedai already walk the grounds of the Black Tower. All those Aes Sedai that they captured walk on the grounds of the Black Tower.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I love animated smilies<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/crazy.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-29 20:30:28
subject: <b>Rand already knows....</b>
body:
Min said Cadsuane would teach Rand and all the Asha'man, except Rand already knows how because he linked with Nynaeve at Shadar Logoth. But I'll grant that linking might be a benefit of whatever Cadsuane teaches them.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I am stealthy like ninja...<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aiel.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-03-31 00:00:00
subject: <b>Allright!</b>
body:
I truly hope she'll teach them something more than just that.But I do agree with the still flesh-thing. Like being bonded stops/slows the process of going absolutely mad. That would be nice. <p>Anyway.... The thing went COOL, not COLD. like Mat says: "the medalion went ice cold. someone was channeling at him."<br />So Alanna as only holding the power.</p>


created: 2001-06-16 15:50:33
subject: <b>Ornaments</b>
body:
Like Ninny said, the medalion went cool, as mat's does when someone is HOLDING the Power.  If someone was USING the power on her, it would have been &quot;ice cold.&quot;<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">ph34r!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-22 09:56:01
subject: <b>but anyway, that's not the point.</b>
body:
The point is, itis like Mat's <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br />And I NEVER thought of that. Thank you!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i><br /><br />Some times nothin' is a real cool hand.</i></font><p></p>


created: 2001-07-10 10:38:31
subject: <b>Jake1521</b>
body:
I think this theory almost hit it.  Sorelia and Cadsuene are going to teach the Ashamon the cry and laugh.  That is something that is hard for most guys because we want to be seen tough and we see tears as a sign of weakness.  Usually the stronger we are, the less often we will cry right?  What would be harder to learn than compassion and mercy to a person of incredible strength such as the Asha'mon are (with the power)?  Especially if taim trained the Asha'mon just as Rand wanted him too: &quot;Make them weapons for me to use, Taim.&quot;  <br />Rand didn't ask them to feel sadness, but to destroy.  Sorelia was right when she said: &quot;Unless he(Rand) finds laughter and tears again, the world faces disaster.&quot;  Even Min worries about Rand not being able to shed any tears.  She says something to him along the lines of, &quot;It is ok to cry Rand&quot; while in the same paragraph she admits that he is just to hard and has no tears left.  I dunno about you, but if there were only on person meant to save the world, I would want him to be able to have compassion for the people he is saving.


created: 2001-12-18 17:39:08
subject: <b>the medallion</b>
body:
It could be that the medallion just allows her to know when someone is channeling, and not be an actual wall to it like mats is.  For xample it could let her know when someone is chaaneling within a mile, or something like that.  I dont think RJ would give another item like that to someone else too.  But then again it could be another one like that.


created: 2002-07-09 04:52:44
subject: <b>Cadsuane doesn't need to channel because she is always in control. NM</b>
body:
.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">~~Nikikins~~<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /> &quot;It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got.&quot;  Sheryl Crow</font><p></p>


created: 2004-03-30 14:49:34
subject: <b>I think your right....</b>
body:
I don't really give much thought to what you said about what she teaches them, But as far as her medallion being like Matts, I agree here is why.<br /><br />When Matt first notices the tempature, its because someone is channeling near him. He only describes it as cold when some one channels ON him or there is ALOT of channeling near him...<br /><br />Also, Why would Cadsuane need to know when another woman channeled. I think Jordan is being intentionaly vauge here. She is a woman and KNOWS when other women channel becaus eshe can SEE it. The only reason to mention the medallion, another FEMALE channeling, AND that Cads isn't worried is because it IS like matts....


created: 2004-04-18 12:47:52
subject: <b>I think you're wrong ...</b>
body:
Alanna embraces the Source because she is desparate. She doesn't channel - Cadsuane would see the flows or the weave (Aes Sedai can't invert). Alanna would be a fool to channel towards someone who is so much stronger than her. The ter-angreal merely detects saidar.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">A One Power researcher<br />Defender of Lanfear<br />Grand Ninja-Nae'blis to be feared <br />Original Warder to Isa <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br />New Warder to Nossie <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br />Toy to Seriana <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/winky.gif" border="0" /><br />Mystified by a Fan <br />Bonded Phelix - I was young, it happened so fast.</font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-01 16:50:00
subject: <b>Linking Men and Women</b>
body:
At the end of WH, isn't it a linking with Rand and Nyn, where Rand controls the circle, and i seem to remember reading that when it is only one man and one woman the man would control the circle/link.  Feel free to bash me if i'm wrong


created: 2002-09-25 14:06:40
subject: <b>Berelains husband the man in white</b>
body:
I believe that the berelains husband will be Galad. He is now a white cloak and it seems the only one beautiful enough to get her eyes off of perrin


created: 2003-03-03 00:15:00
subject: <b>what?!</b>
body:
its plain obvious that cadsuane is going to teach them that they are not only weapones and thats the one thing she's trying to do since i dont believe Jordan will let rand die she will do it and that would be the thing!<br />not linking :/


created: 2001-11-15 17:16:13
subject: <b>No Oaths?</b>
body:
Maybe she has among her myraid ter'angreals one that lets her bind and unbind oaths, so she could free herself from the 3 Oaths other Aes Sedai have.  We know it's possible<br /><br />


created: 2001-11-16 14:01:43
subject: <b>concede defeat</b>
body:
<br />i just read winters night yesterday for the first time and the black ajah thing was bothering me.<br />why would RJ throw that into the short story without a reason? it looks moraine appears to have good instints all through out the story.  there is a black ajah, sisters are dying and she find out who the (one of the) agent is and kills her.  and cadsuane tried to force her to go with merean, as well as threatening to punish her if she didn't obey.  &quot;custom forbade physical violence...&quot;  so she could either feel she is above custom or be black and actually threatening death.<br />i looked in the faqs and coundn't find much so i tied to find support from the books but i think its definate that cadsuane is not black ajah.<br />main support: &quot;...on the point of rooting out the black only to watch her quarry slip through her fingers... her bitterest failure...&quot;  WHpg307    <br />related to that:  if moraine comes back will she explain her suspisions of cadsuane?  how?


created: 2001-12-27 15:51:13
subject: <b>Hmmm</b>
body:
I think Cadsuane tried to force those three sisters to go so that the other sister with merean would be safe with her and moiraine against merean.


created: 2002-01-18 18:30:31
subject: <b>Min's view</b>
body:
I don't think Cadsuane is Black Ajah namely because Min's viewing says that she will teach Rand and the Asha'man that they will need to know.


created: 2002-01-30 14:39:33
subject: <b>Not to mention</b>
body:
Cadusane admits that her biggest failure is the failure to root out the Black Ajah.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />


created: 2002-07-07 13:19:17
subject: <b>How do we know she isn't one of the Forsaken?</b>
body:
She appears for the first time in CoS with no previous mention in the WoT books, and everyone who meets her says they thought she was dead (Does this remind anyone else of Snake Pliskin in the Escape from New York movies?). Maybe one of the Forsaken is pretending to be her. Who could it be? Mesaana seems the most likely candidate. A lot of people seem to think Mesaana is running things in the White Tower, but who is she there? If she is in the White Tower pretending to be a sister, she certainly does not appear to be anyone important whose presence would be missed if she was absent for any length of time. And who taught Cadsuane to travel anyway???


created: 2003-01-11 15:58:01
subject: <b>Traveling</b>
body:
Sorilea taught her how to travel.  It was when they started their little &quot;friendship&quot;  Sorilea said that she wasnt strong enough to do it but she made the weaves for Cadsuane... <br /><br />Quote from the encyclopedia..<br />&quot;Once in Cairhien she took up residence with the Lady Arilyn and caused quite a stir among the sisters sworn to serve Rand al'Thor. She has squeezed them dry for information on recent events and taken a Water Oath with the Wise One, Sorilea. The purpose, &quot;To teach Rand al'Thor laughter and tears.&quot; Sorilea also taught her the lost Talent of Travelling, indeed many of the Wise Ones and Aiel seem to respect Cadsuane. The reason for this is because she saved the life of their precious Car&#8217;a&#8217;carn when the Shadar Logoth dagger wounded him. &quot;


created: 2003-04-25 09:43:47
subject: <b>Another point against Forsaken</b>
body:
We go to her PoV a couple of times, and if she really was Forsaken, she wouldn't think of herself as &quot;Cadsuane&quot;, but as whatever Forsaken she is. Besides, at SL, she fought Forsaken from her PoV in some places, and she thought of them as Forsaken, not Chosen. Therefore, she is not Forsaken, and not BA.


created: 2003-05-02 04:50:17
subject: <b>The Creation of the Wheel of Time and the Taint</b>
body:
From my own understanding it appears the taint did not come from the Dark one but exactly from the resealing of the Bore by the Hundred Companions.  I believe this because of how Robert Jordan puts so much emphasis on the key term &quot;Balance&quot;.  Simply put the Bore was originally sealed in the beginning with the combined powers of Saidin and Saidar both giving a balanced seal over the bore, possibly put there by the Creater.  Then the seal was broke when Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends broke open half the seal which just happen to be lead by Mieren/Lanfear.  <br />   Now lets say the female half of the seal was broke open only leaving the male half to keep back the Dark One from completely escaping.  I say the female half was broken because of how linking works, where as when women link they can only have I believe 12 or 13 before a man must join the linking for more women to join.  So with this linking led by Lanfear they accidently broke open the female half of the seal over the bore.  Then when the Hundred Companions put there seal over the bore instead of fully sealing up the bore and creating the balance again they actually put a double patch of the male seal on the bore causing a taint on saidin.  Think of it as cooking: say a recipe calls for salt and pepper on a stew, both put together cause a nice taste but put a double batch of pepper in it in place of salt and you get a nasty taste.  <br />   So with that said I believe the female part of the seal needs to be replaced instead of the male part and for this to be done Rand must destroy the Cuendillar disks, as what Fel's note said about clearing up the rubble, but he must also do is destroy the original part of male seal made by creater where as a new resealing can be created by men and women for a new balance out of the age they live in now.<br /><br />A side note: I believe when the seal was originally broken that the pattern got caught as well in causing ages to repeat themselves over and over again because of the imbalance in evil and good whereas evil was more strong because of the tear in the seal over the bore.  So what the pattern is doing now is reliving ages over and over again but slightly different in hopes of getting the seal refixed to recreate the normal balance but unforunately each time around the people get it wrong so the wheel changes up things and puts in the same original souls that started the imbalance but in different bodies without their original memory-(not quite sure on the memory thing)-but also in different places at different times/ages to see if this will help set up the recreation of the balance over the bore.  <br />   Think of it as flipping a Quarter, you have a 50/50 chance at getting heads and tails.  But if you flip it 4 times you might get 3 heads and 1 Tail causing the 50/50 chance(Balance) to change.  But if you keep flipping over and over again eventually after you keep statitisics of what happens the average will show a 50/50 chance again.  So basically the Pattern is just trying to refix itself and hopefully in Rand's Age it has finally set up the right sequence of people, places, events to do this. The only holes I see in these 2 theories that might cause some arguments is the Horn of Valere, Balefire and TAR.<br /><br />Say what needs to be said for or against this, but this is my first Theory here and it just happen to turn out to be a long one heh.<br />


created: 2001-04-27 00:00:00
subject: <b>Taint Destroying the Ways</b>
body:
Perhaps the Taint is also destroying the Ways.  The Ways was made by male Aes Sedai after the Taint came into existence.  Maybe it has been slowly seeping into the Ways from the energy that created it.  Perhaps Machin Shin is caused by the evil of the Taint, similiar to how the Taint causes madness in the men who channel?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Dajeth<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> El Pollo Loco <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-11-06 14:02:39
subject: <b>Dajeth, you're absolutely right, but don't celebrate</b>
body:
The Taint causing Machin Shin is not only a possibility, but a proven FACT.  RJ even says so in EOTW!


created: 2001-06-19 04:16:00
subject: <b>as to your song stuff</b>
body:
As I recall from Rand's visions of the Aiel in book 4, the sang with Ogier to grow stuff (similar to how Ogier sing).  And as later books have pointed out, Tinkers are descendants of the Aiel (probably offshoots of the Jenn).  The songs they look for are the songs they sang in the Age of Legends with the Ogier when they were Aiel.  <br />If A) an Aiel remembered his visions well enough and taught the song to a Tinker or B) a Tinker was to enter the glass colums and learn the song - then the Tinkers would have their song and with it would be able to help the world as I seem to recall is their purpose in searching for the song...


created: 2001-06-29 16:14:23
subject: <b>the real question is</b>
body:
All of this depends on if it was the song that was important or was it the fact that the Ogier were singing it and the Nym were dancing to it.  Did the Aiel even really do anything besides join in the festivities?  I am going to assume so because they seemed to play a major part in the process, in relationship to themselves(passage into adulthood), and to their world (providng a large poppulation with food).  Perhaps this song like the treesong of the ogier is a way to harness the one power in another way that the humans(Aiel) are able to amplify(perhaps as living angreal)due to their spiritual purity(way of the leaf).  But of course i have no evidence except my musings <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Where did these Skimmers come from?  I mean if they didn't want to read the book they could have just Traveled to another author.  Why risk arriving at the wrong destination?  Why risk falling into darkness?</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-13 22:54:43
subject: <b>what the song is for</b>
body:
the song is rediscovered in shara by Jain/Noal Farstrider. he discovered it a while ago, and ishmael messed up his mind to make him forget it. however, he gets his mind back with the 'finns help, and he gets the ogier to help him harness the power of the song. the power is the Power of Creation (to counterbalance the true power) and jainoal wields this power at the last but not really the last battle. Believe me or not, i don't care but it is true.


created: 2001-09-18 02:33:41
subject: <b>about the staff bit......</b>
body:
it is an aid to concertration like the hand movements that are used in the weaving. The aiel don't use hand movements, they are not neccesary but part of how the weave was learnt. It was nto an angreal!!!!!!!!!<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I am dead <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /><br />I mean Death <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/devil.gif" border="0" />The Darkness to <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> balance the light<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" />More than a little insane<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br />AND MY HERO TALKS IN CAPITALS<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /> <br />     &#223;&#174;&#220;&#169;&#163;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />The grave is no bar to my call - inscription on a mighty HORN</font><p></p>


created: 2001-09-24 00:01:26
subject: <b>On Throwing Fireballs</b>
body:
Just a minor point:<br /><br />When Trollocs storm the Stone of Tear in Book 4, Moiraine throws fireballs--and probably a lot more--without RJ ever mentioning her having a staff.  So all I'm saying is that I don't think the staff is a required part of the weave.


created: 2002-03-11 02:29:26
subject: <b>The staff</b>
body:
When Moirane loses her staff to Machin Shin, she specifically states that &quot;It was a focus, but not an angreal.&quot; It did help her concentrate, but... well, yeah, it wasn't an angreal.<br /><br />I like singing though! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">~ Tag ZERO<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/ring.gif" border="0" /> Worm <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/dead.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /> Is that a sun, or a shuriken?<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Spontaneous Combustion Man! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /> I am not the Royal Jester. I am the Royal Fool!<br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/nynaeve.gif" border="0" /> WoT Women all sniff entirely too much <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /> All hail the Egorian Queen! .... King! King I say! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/disapprove.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-12 23:55:56
subject: <b>Ummmm....no</b>
body:
Sorry, but, uh, no. First off, Morainne states that the staff is not an angrel. Second, no amount of singing would ever allow you to channnel more OP like  an angrel. An angrel is a specially designed object that magnifies the amount of power a person can channel. So, naturally, singing would not be a way to channel. So, sorry, thanks for playing.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> True Power is knowing that you can, but you don't. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-red.gif" border="0" /> -Deathbone1 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-green.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Current rank in Wse PTS: 164 out of top 1000 (7/8/03)<br />We are men of action. Lies do not become us.<br />Life finds a way.<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-04-24 00:58:25
subject: <b>You are going in the right direction</b>
body:
I think Rand will discover the Song and sing it at the Last Battle.  I have to do some research, but if it holds, I will submit a theory.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">I love Trillessa</font><p></p>


created: 2003-04-25 19:55:59
subject: <b>A singing people</b>
body:
I just wanted to add this to maybe support the part of the theory about Rand singing the DO to death. Rand is part Aiel as we know, and the Aiel (men) only sing when they are in battle or at funerals. I don't remember Rand ever singing in the books, or him actually commanding a battle so i can see RJ having him Sing the Song at TG.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Folder of IroningBoards&#174;<br />Operator of Microwaves&#174;<br />Cat to the Man who rules the Universe<br /><br />&quot;`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/perplexed.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2007-07-26 11:33:31
subject: <b>NO</b>
body:
Moiraine states in EoTW that her staff is A STAFF. The only angreal she has is the woman angreal she uses when she heals Mat from the dagger to weaken the taint, and again to heal Rands wound. She says, plainly and directly to Egwene that her staff is nothing but a carved wooden staff. Do a little research next time<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /> Shara is actually inhabited by bannanas <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/banana.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bandredhand.gif" border="0" /> The Band of the Red Hand is made of Ninjas like Mat<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br />Narg+Bela= Nela!<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/w00t.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> ;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/bela.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-22 22:58:21
subject: <b>nope, not bloody likely</b>
body:
The &quot;forcibly retired&quot; former Lord Captain Commander of the CoTL was very right about one thing:  the creator has left his children to destiny.  The True power has no equivelent, nor will one be discovered.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&lt;rant&gt; Canadian and proud of it! &lt;/rant&gt;</font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-28 16:20:34
subject: <b>the one power</b>
body:
I may be far off, but what about saidin and saidar, couldn't they be the creator's &quot;true power&quot;?<br />I mean, the creator imprissoned the dark one and his true power with him at the moment of creation, right?but he &quot;left&quot; the one  power to his subjects, the humans(cuz he did create humans,right? (or maybe that was the dark ones counter stroke when he first was imprissoned, eh..or not!))to use, so....the one power is the creator's answer to the dark one's true power, or have I missed something important as I tend to do?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">--~~kule Klem~~--</font><p></p>


created: 2002-04-17 18:52:13
subject: <b>The One Power is the Creator's Power</b>
body:
The One Power is the proper opposite to the &quot;true&quot; power.  You notice it does everything through _weaves_?  In other words, it works with and through the Order of the Pattern.  The &quot;True&quot; Power (note, only Darkfriends call it &quot;True&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> works by tearing and torturing the Pattern.  Its essence is Chaos.<br /><br />The reason that Darkfriends can touch the One Power, but &quot;Lightfriends&quot; can't touch the &quot;True&quot; Power is that Darkfriends are still part of the Pattern, and thus are still beneficiaries of the Creator's orderly power, even though they are sworn to work for its dissolution.<br /><br />Florian


created: 2002-04-23 13:37:21
subject: <b>True Power of the Creator?</b>
body:
I believe we have already seen evidence of this True Power of the Creator.  Most Randlandians refer to it as the One Power . <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-07-19 15:32:42
subject: <b>oi oi</b>
body:
the creator said that he or she or whatever would not get involed and let rand do the hard work so giving a type of poer connected to him only wauld be contradicting himself<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Tel the ponderer of strange things <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Wearer of the trilby <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/mat.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> Blademaster <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-red.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-07-16 06:26:38
subject: <b>First Wound</b>
body:
I have a problem, I can't understand completely.<br />The first wound in Rand's side was made by Ishamael's power-made dark staff. Now I wonder, why is in never-healing ?<br />Was the weapon made by the True Power ? because a Power weapon does not usually require a great amount of Power, so the taint alone could not hurt Rand that bad...<br />And still... An Ishamael wielding the True Power looks with a note of fear upon a Rand al'Thor with a heron-marked blade ?(+ the oneness)


created: 2002-11-20 01:28:02
subject: <b>response</b>
body:
Keep in mind that when Rand attains 'oneness' he is nearly embracing the power.  Ishamael very possibly sensed Rand's ability with the power when he attained 'oneness,' and Rand's enormous capacity for the One Power would probably frighten even one of the Forsaken if unexpected.


created: 2001-06-29 16:10:16
subject: <b>Uhmm... I could be wrong...</b>
body:
...but doesn't the fact that the taint has already been cleansed, and not in this fashion kind of pull apart this theory.  How about this...  <br /><br />Shai'tan is the antithesis of the creator, perhaps he is some sort of personification of the &quot;sloughed off&quot; junk and bad stuff that was cleaned up prior to the creation of the Wheel (Creator cleans off the 'workbench'... oops, there's Shai'tan on the floor! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /> ).  Anyway, this junk or basic underlying evil is now the Dark One, and he has access to the stuff that makes him him... evil (a la the True Power/True Source, don't remember proper name).<br />The Wheel is 'powered by' the interaction between the two sides of the OP, right? (right) Channelers tap into sides of the power.  The DO dumped some of his essence (evil and nastiness, etc.) and that caused the taint... touching the essence of pure evil and all the refuse of the universe...  <br /><br />I know, that's pretty much what Jordan said, but nonetheless, I think it's about the best way for me to explain how I see this.


created: 2002-05-22 16:33:01
subject: <b>Voices</b>
body:
Your just jealous cause the voices talk to me<br /><br /><br />Lytjan Morillin <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/clonetrooper.gif" border="0" /> Cloned   <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gholam.gif" border="0" /> Master thief  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" />channie  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sammy.gif" border="0" /> Warder<br />of the rebel Green Ajah<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /> Its good to be bonded to a green <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" />


created: 2003-04-05 02:29:02
subject: <b>Hmmm, no</b>
body:
First of all, Lews Therin is still in Rand's head after the cleansing, second of all, why would people spirits cause them to rot alive (i recall that being one of the effects of the taint)?


created: 2001-06-21 16:31:59
subject: <b>NOT!</b>
body:
this is not possible!<br />the true power is sepose 2 be abdicted and yet every1 who uses it has theSAA or something like that-i don't know how 2 translate it from hebrew...<br />second NOBODY has it!<br />not the forsaken nor the ashma'n...that plus the fact that the forsaken KNOW what the true power is and would have recognized it....<br />the price thingy is a good support for the theory and madness truely seams Moridin's true goal!<br />but since of the reasons brought up...its just not possible!<br /><br />i had a theory that said htat the taint doesn't only affect with the madness thingy but it also makes it stronger!<br />since that the aes sedai said that woman and man were at the same str...although the forsaken said otherwise...it could be that the taint had made Saidin stronger instead of just tainting it...<br />but all of those hteories were sudered by WH so....<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">A very very wise man once sai &quot;i dunno go ask a woman!'<br /><br />life without WoT is like a broken pencel!<br />POINTLESS!<br /><br />am i here<br />maybe i'm there<br />i can be everywhere!<br />but here, where here is for thy<br />I sure not<br />but I might be there...<br /><br />use thy brai</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-27 14:14:34
subject: <b>Dark One</b>
body:
RJ has said that the DO is the source of the True Power. <br />Also the books make it clear you can only use the TP with the express permission of the DO.<br />Finally: The DO is outside the Pattern. So if you grab the TP you also have to go beyond the Pattern and only Merilel and Beidomon have done that.<br />'...I win...'<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;We wont give a fig,<br /> We'll tell you to,<br /> Go stick your head in a pig!&quot;<br />  The Sirius Cybernetics Customer Services Helpline - Share and Enjoy!</font><p></p>


created: 2002-01-30 17:20:27
subject: <b>This is my take</b>
body:
I have been searching all of the theories on the one power seeing if anyone has the same idea that i do.  it is my thought that the one power is a matrix if you will that sorrounds (sp?) the globe. (can't really call it Earth)<br />channelers can tap into it because it is constanly around you.  much like the gravitaional feild on Earth.  Please don't copy this.  just give suggestions. thanks.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">&quot;When life gets juicy, squeeze it&quot; <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rolleyes.gif" border="0" /><br />**CHOCO BLISS**<br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-05 14:50:46
subject: <b>Einstein</b>
body:
Einstein said that if we were to use the full potential of the brain, our thoughts would become pure energy or something of the sort (thought itself sends electric impulses across the brain).  Perhaps JR has drawn on this theory.  When a person channels, she/he is concentrating in the void and could probably be using the full potential of the brain, therebye releasing manipulating forces on matter.<br /><br />I don't quite understand Einstein's theory, nor know the full details of it.  Also, neuroscience was not really Einstein's forte, so it may be wrong.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Wotmania Writers' Guild</font><p></p>


created: 2002-08-06 08:38:05
subject: <b>Fire</b>
body:
While your theory is well-thought I would disagree on one point - Fire. Rather than the kinetic energy I would expect Fire to &quot;exploit&quot; heat which is also present in all matter. I don't know else one could describe fire but a great amount of heat in &quot;one&quot; place.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">...and the worms ate into his brain.</font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-04 04:42:00
subject: <b>Fire</b>
body:
Fire is actually an exothermic reaction (meaning it releases energy), taking an initial application of energy and making a self sustained reaction.  So the poster of the theory is correct-channelling fire manipulates the kinetic energy in all things.  Scientists are still unable to produce absolute zero, or a state in which matter loses all kinetic energy.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /> Beware, Lawbreakers! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/narg.gif" border="0" /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/uno.gif" border="0" /> 'Tis I, the Thieftaker! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/uno.gif" border="0" /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/darkone.gif" border="0" />Faithfull servant of... <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> <br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Oops, forgot... I don't serve anyone! <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-04-19 00:00:00
subject: <b>Keep up the good work</b>
body:
This is the first theory that i've read that I can honestly say is all of the following: orignial, provocative, and reasonable.  I love theories that I can easilly agree to. <br />Keep up the good work.<img src="images/aessedai.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" />the lover of light and wisdom<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/whitecloak.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" />the all-seeing eye<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" />the wandering wotmaniac<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-11 21:22:55
subject: <b>Two True Powers</b>
body:
Maybe the reason the True Power does such odd things to people (the saa, fiery eyes, insanity, etc.) is because the True Power is not split into two like the One Power is.  So, channeling the True Power is similar to males channeling the saidin with the taint of saidar.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">cynic79</font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-27 16:25:24
subject: <b>But what about Forsaken?</b>
body:
We know from descriptions from male Forsaken points of view that the Taint rolls away from them thanks to the DO's shield when they channel.  Yet they are still able to sense when women channel near them.  I think the Taint is something that was added to Saidin by the DO, not something moved around.  In any case, I don't see Saidar being the taint on Saidin.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Gynsala<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" />Help Seeker<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" />Needer of Explanations<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br />Poster of Non-Important Stuff<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/tongue.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />-Please, do NOT assault the vegetation</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-15 12:19:37
subject: <b>Nice idea</b>
body:
I like the idea, but there are a few flaws in it:<br /><br />The True Power is not divided into two, this is the reason that Lanfear and co. (in the AoL) actually wanted to tap it - it was one power source that men and women could BOTH tap.  The reason the Forsaken cannot manipulate the threads is because of two reasons: the TP can only be seen by the person using it, and it cannot be sensed by anybody else.  When Rand saw it, he was just special <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />.  <br /><br />In PoD, the reason that everyone was having problems with the OP was entirely due to ter'angreal overstressing.  The Bowl of the Winds was meant only to control small areas of the world, not the entire world.<br /><br />Men could feel women channeling in the AoL, women simply cannot feel men channeling at all.  It's one of the differences between saidar and saidin.<br /><br />Balefire is not made from both saidin and saidar; if it is a male channeler, then it is made from saidin, if it is female, then it is from saidar.  <br /><br />Also, the DO is _outside_ of the pattern.  The DO can influence events, but he really isn't in the Pattern at all (basically, why you can't balefire the DO, as there's no thread to burn).  Therefore, the TP isn't part of the Pattern at all.  <br /><br /><br />


created: 2001-09-28 10:09:43
subject: <b>WRONG</b>
body:
The simple reason to why the taint isn't saidar, is that somewhere in the series, I don't remeber where, it is said that the DO conter-attacked LTT &amp; co:s attack, by putting his essence on the saidin. now don't tell me that the DO consists of saidar, 'cause he doesn't.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">da'covale d'Rie Bolmdahl <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/king.gif" border="0" /><br /><i>Deyeneiye, dyu ninte concion ca ye</i> <font color="white">(no, tia Rie Bolmdahl)</font><br />I'm sleepy. <br /><br />currently: away</font><p></p>


created: 2002-05-13 18:14:02
subject: <b>Errors in post</b>
body:
In Shayol Ghul you can channel with the DO's permission.  Shadar Haran was able to channel there and I believe that the forsaken have mentioned that they could channel there in the past.  Callandor is flawed because there is no buffer to control how much saidin is pulled through it.  All other saidin sa`angreal are fine to use.  Primary example is the Choedan Kal.<br /><br />The best explanation I have heard about the breaking of the seals is that no matter how good the craftmanship of a patch is, the patch is not close to being equal to the orginial work.  Plus just because the Aes Sedai don't know how to break heartstone doesn't mean it is not possible.  The seals were created with both saidin and saidar.<br /><br />The taint has been stronger since Rand was bonded because he has been channeling alot more since then.  Especially in the use of gateways to run around his empire.  The difficulty in channeling was with both saidin and saidar and was due to the attempt by Elayne to unravel her gateway that failed.  In the same area the damane were all very sick and could not channel.<br /><br />As someone else already mentioned the male forsaken can sense women channelers and they are not affected by the taint thanks to the DO's protection.  It has also been said that the ability to sense other channelers both male and female is based on the individual power in the source in both the wielder and the sensor.<br /><br />In regards to balefire the weave of balefire in regards to saidin and saidar are different and the affects of the weave are slightly different depending on if it is done with saidin or saidar.  In regards to the headache and the split vision both streams attempted to cancel each other out and would if the streams are powerful enough erase the person who cast it.  If you take this to extreme then it would wipe out both channelers before the cast balefire and therefore since they were not alive to cast the balefire they were not wiped out.  Think about that for a while and you will have a headache without crossing balefire.<br /><br />


created: 2002-08-13 15:21:05
subject: <b>Why isn't this in the 'Humorous Theories' section?</b>
body:
Based on this theory, I am glad I have very few wSE points, because if I can get 50 of them for submitting a bunch of disconnected whimsical thoughts without quotes or page numbers that are rarely in complete sentences, with most of them being completely wrong, then the entire concept of the wSE is something I would rather never have contact with again.


created: 2002-12-11 07:33:58
subject: <b>Aha!</b>
body:
Not. <br />Saidar? You have to be kidding. <br /><br />Remember <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The lateness has come to the thrashing.<br /><br />Visit www.aww-mud.org and click Telnet.</font><p></p>


created: 2003-02-02 22:11:22
subject: <b>Seals are Siadin</b>
body:
The Seals (capital letters) are made of cuendillar/heartstone which is made with both Siadin and Saidar, but the seals (lowercase) on the Dark One's Prison were made using only Saidin by Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions, because no women helped him in his strike against Shayol Ghul.  That is also why only Saidin was Tainted. If Female channeler's had been there to help him in a link, then either both Saidin and Saidar would have been tainted or neither would have.  I can't remember the title of the book but I think it was that big white one about the Wheel of Time.  Thats where I read about the division of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends and how the men sided with Lews Therin anyways.


created: 2004-12-10 15:29:38
subject: <b>one problem</b>
body:
the power miern found was the true power and the dark one<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> let the speedbart ride again upon the winds of time <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />Made the second post on the new WoTMB2 <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/approve.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-03-20 00:00:00
subject: <b>I am officially drawing back this theory... <img src="images/frown.gif" /></b>
body:
Well, Rand did clean the taint (probably) and it had nothing to do with the seals. But if something was wrong with Rand's method, the theory still hold!! <img src="images/biggrin.gif" />


created: 2002-01-23 21:23:39
subject: <b>Yep</b>
body:
It is my belief that by cleansing Saidin, Rand has shattered all the remaining unbroken seals.  This matches with the stated prophecy and also with Fel's idea of clearing the rubble and so forth.<br /><br />Hopefully RJ can now finish the series within 10 years!


created: 2003-04-30 13:31:08
subject: <b>Thats Right! (Sorta)</b>
body:
I tend to agree with you on the theory of Rand Cleasing Saidin and breaking the seals, but they have no connection between them whatsoever.  I have no idea where you came up with them being consequential to each other, but i think you were absolutely correct about the first part.


created: 2008-02-26 01:14:46
subject: <b>Cutting of hope</b>
body:
Although the first half undoubtably refers to cleansing the taint, I suspect that the &quot;cutting of hope&quot; refers rather to Nynaeve's discovery of how to Heal stilling.  Recall that stilling/gentling/severing is a weave of Spirit shaped like a knife that cuts the channeler off from the Source, and we know what happens to severed channelers...


created: 2001-04-15 00:00:00
subject: <b>Clarification</b>
body:
If I wasn't so lazy, Id look up the conversation and write it ver batim, but I am so Ill paraphrase <img src="images/smile.gif" />  Asmo says something on the lines that when Rand cut the cords, he'll go crazy and die like every other male channeller <img src="images/smile.gif" /> case closed <img src="images/jester.gif" />


created: 2001-07-05 19:58:00
subject: <b>black cords</b>
body:
The black cords were protection from the taint on saidin and also the male Forsaken's link to the Dark One.  When Rand cut Asmodean's cord in TSR, Asmodean told Rand how he was doomed because not only was he not protected from the Dark One's taint, he was no longer connected to him, and I remember Rand thinking that he refused to be taught to someone actually linked to the Dark One.


created: 2001-08-03 17:21:41
subject: <b>Black cords on Rahvin</b>
body:
The times Rahvin has been seen there were no black cords on him. Secondly the black cords i am pretty sure are somehow the link between the man and the Dark One. You are probably right about them only being on men but that is because they are shields against the taint which is why Asmodean was so horrified he had been cut and why he said he was just as vulnerable as Rand.<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> &gt;:1<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">The Hammer of the Light,<br /><br />By The Grace of the Light,<br /><br />High King of the World,<br /><br />Lord of the Six Gates,<br /><br />Master of the Winds,<br /><br />Artur Hawking</font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-23 11:14:05
subject: <b>Umm, just my thoughts on it</b>
body:
I've been thinking about it for a while too (among other things of course). And what I came up with so far is that the cords are like straws.<br />The taint is always described as an oily layer on saidin. The cords could be DO-granted straws that go through the taint, directly into saidin. So with a straw, you 'drink' saidin without the oil. When the straw gets cut, you can still drink from the cup, but now WITH the taint.<br /><br />Just my thoughts on it anyways. First post here, go easy <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Wielder of teh Dutch l00ny!<br />(*mumble* Did that make sense? .... Oh well)</font><p></p>


created: 2002-02-22 12:05:35
subject: <b>No need..</b>
body:
There was no need for your theory, it's stated outright at the end of tSR.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angel.gif" border="0" />Karlaan <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/myrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-03-03 19:22:53
subject: <b>One word . . . Asmodean.</b>
body:
The black chords are what ties the forsaken (or the maile ones at least for that is all that has been shown) to the dark one`s service, and will. Take into consideration Asmodean. Rand severs Asmodeans black chords while in the waste. From that point on Asmodean has no connection to The Dark One. He cannot Channel the True Source, and has no more immortality. The black chords tie you to the Dark One. Being tied to the Dark One gives you immortality, and the ability to channel his form of the One Power. Plain and simple.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Lugh of the Vanth<br />Prince of Coolavin<br />Lord of the Darmods<br /><br />&quot;If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips.&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-13 04:22:06
subject: <b>little this, little that</b>
body:
I don't know about the rest of you but I've come to the conclusion(theoretically) that the cords are both the link to the dark one and the protection from saidin, the male cords are visible because of the added ingredients for protection needed in their case.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Perrin is awesome,<br />Berelain is a whore,<br />Faile is insatiable,<br />who could ask for more?... <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br />                  -GoldenEyes <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/hopper.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-17 11:38:49
subject: <b>beside the point...</b>
body:
Yes, we know the dark cord is a link to the dark one, protecting the Forsaken from the taint.  The bigger question would seem to me to be why Rand could see them.  Of course the Forsaken could feel their connection (or lack thereof), but how could Rand see the link, much less sever it?  Perhaps a Talent?<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> &quot;You me when I think really think about it<br />    Are the same&quot; Ikkyu Sojun <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/ring.gif" border="0" /> Joy is in the ears that hear,<br />    Not in the mouth that speaks.&quot; Giantish saying <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/ring.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-09-24 11:51:51
subject: <b>fenrar is right</b>
body:
oh yeah<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /> I am SSJ Jozan <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-green.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-blue.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> swords are awesome <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-red.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/lightsaber-purple.gif" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flamingsword.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Reader of good books <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /> Lini is the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/rant.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/biggrin.gif" border="0" /> Lover of Cookies and cartoons <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/viking.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /> <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angry.gif" border="0" /> Hater of Masema <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/angry.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2002-12-18 21:53:09
subject: <b>uhmmm. . .</b>
body:
Uhmm,I may not be toopositive aboot this,soforgiveme, but when Rand saw Ishy`s chords weren`t they in the real world, not TAR? So that would in n way affect it.Now, I personally beleive that the chords are the connection to the dark one. The taint was TGL`s revenge for the sealing of the bore.It was the back wash of his power.It would then make sence that TGL could control it. Just me thoughts though. <br /><br />Now, we can not say for sure that these are only on the men. Just like how many talents have been rediscovered, and new talents have been made, could not yet another one be forged? Remember that it`s a Talent to see taveren. Could it not then be a Talent to see Forsaken,or at least Dreadlords?And like with Fortelling, it could show up spasmadicaly. <br /><br />Just a few thoughts, nothing is proven though. Thank you for your time.<br /><br /><br />Lord of the late afternoon<br />Wearer of a crown of Toothpicks<br />Squirter out of Easy Cheese.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Lugh of the Vanth<br />Prince of Coolavin<br />Lord of the Darmods<br /><br />&quot;If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips.&quot;</font><p></p>


created: 2004-08-08 01:03:01
subject: <b>Silver Cord...</b>
body:
That poses the problem of why Rand himself was connected with a silver cord. And if severing the Forsaken's Black Cord cuts their link to the Dark One, remember that Ishamael had his cut in the very beginning. If he's no longer connected to Shai'tan, I don't thing that he would be Nae'blis.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><i>War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend</i><br />~Faramir</font><p></p>


created: 2005-03-29 20:39:33
subject: <b>probably connected to all</b>
body:
I think the black cords connect to all DF's.  I think they can only be seen in certain situations like skimming.  I think if Rand took everybody skimming we would see quite a few Black Cords and would be able to find DF's with ease


created: 2008-06-11 22:30:42
subject: <b>black cord nature</b>
body:
how can something tainted (the True Power), protect someone untainted by something tainted (Saidin)? confusing...<br />


created: 2001-03-28 00:00:00
subject: <b>Taim is not Demandred-like</b>
body:
As the Wheel of Time turns, when an Age comes again it is very similar to its last appearance but has some small things go differently.  For Taim to be a Third Age representation of Demandred, the Age of Legends where Demandred, the rest of the Forsaken, and Lews Therin lived in would have to be the Third Age as well but from its last turning.<br />


created: 2001-04-04 00:00:00
subject: <b>Taim and Ablar gor round to round</b>
body:
Yeah I scoff at the Taimendred theory, but Taim as the modern day equivalent of the Jealous one makes sense. I thing that Logain has known from the start that somehing is amiss at the Black Tower yo.  He came there for two reasons you got to remember. One is to have safety found in numbers. The other is to serve Al'Thor. He's mature enough to realize that if he can't be the dragon that Settling for helping the Dragon is still a prestigious honor and he doesn't look down his nose at honor.<p>   I think that Logain Ablar and Rand A'lThor would get along. If Rand survies Tarmon then I can see him and Logain going out driking on the week ends and comparing notes on how bad the Red Ajah sucks and how complex multiple marriage is.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">Sooner or later it all connects back to itself.</font></p><p></p>


created: 2001-06-01 06:03:50
subject: <b>Logain will be loyal</b>
body:
There's no doubt in my mind that Logain will follow Rand faithfully, without guile. Just after Nynaeve has Healed him, Logain tells her this:<br /><br />&quot;You know, I saw a man once who will cause more trouble than I ever did. Maybe it was the Dragon Reborn; I don't know. It was when they took me through Caemlyn after I was captured. He was far away, but I saw a . . . a glow, and I knew he'd shake the world. Caged as I was, I couldn't help laughing.&quot;<br /><br />Rand didn't even know he could channel yet at that point, so he certainly wasn't holding Saidin. He was sitting atop the Palace wall. So what did Logain see? It must have been something akin to Nicola being able to see ta'veren, and describing a shining or glowing to Mat in Salidar. Certainly noone else has commented on Rand glowing, especially when not channeling. But between that and Min's viewing of glory for Logain, it's safe to call him a good guy.<br /><br />I also expect that Logain and Taim will go nose to nose very soon. It's hard to imagine a place like the Black Tower so factioned off as it is before the end of WH, and not have some sparks, even if the leaders of the factions weren't both false dragons who could channel.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call_me_Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /> Call me Tim <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-06-20 07:01:07
subject: <b>Ha, Ha, Savaunt!</b>
body:
I like the last paragraph, but Rand and Logain wouldn't be cutting Red, or at least not the whole Red.  Logain's second bony-thing was to a Red.  probably not cutting Red, maybe just Elaida.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">ph34r!</font><p></p>


created: 2001-08-27 01:36:00
subject: <b>*nods</b>
body:
My thoughts exactly.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> Gandalv the Gray <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/gandalf.gif" border="0" /> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /> Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/aessedai.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /> Faithful servant of the Creator <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/flaminggrin.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /> Bringer-back of Moiraine <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/moiraine.gif" border="0" /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /> Decapitator of Myrddraal and their Kin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/madmyrddraal.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2001-10-21 00:43:54
subject: <b>New Battles</b>
body:
I think that this is a very good theory. I also would like to see two men face off with power without it bieng Rand and another forsaken.


created: 2001-10-26 13:10:13
subject: <b>Things to remeber</b>
body:
Just A thought but did'nt Min See that Logain Is to do Great things. What could be greater than saving the Dragon Reborn from Taim(or whoever he is). I personaly don't think to much of Taim. And who is to follow after?


created: 2002-02-04 03:28:35
subject: <b>Fighting soon</b>
body:
I think we will definitely see the Taim-Logain fight soon. Remember Elaida's Foretelling? I can't quote her. but I remember it being about blood being shed in the Black Tower and sisters walking it's grounds. Well, the sisters are walking the grounds now, what with all the captured (and bonded!) Aes Sedai there. Blood on the Black Tower means the blodbath fight among Taim's and Logain's factions.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/sauroneye.gif" border="0" /> Arwen Sedai of the Blue Ajah <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/jester.gif" border="0" /><br /></font><p></p>


created: 2003-08-19 13:32:43
subject: <b>Egwene's dream.</b>
body:
Hey. In Egwene's series of dreams, when she saw the dark young man weilding something that shone brightly, there was a passage about Logain. It said that he stepped over Rand's dead body and onto a black block. Something like that. I'm sure it's quoted somewhere above. Anyway, the point I'm getting at is the fact that Logain was laughing as he did it. So either Logain wants Rand dead, will want him dead in the near future, or will make a plan to take the Black Tower over with Rand. Most people neglect the fact that he's laughing. Just wanted to point that out.<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">We rode on the winds of the rising storm,<br />We ran to the sounds of the thunder.<br />We danced among the lightning bolts,<br />and tore the world assunder</font><p></p>


created: 2005-03-16 20:44:56
subject: <b>New Forsaken</b>
body:
I dont think there will be new forsaken because the Forsaken were imprisoned in the AoL (The Second Age), so it won't be until the next Second Age that there will be new Forsaken. Still there are parallels and anyone can be wrong...<br /><br /><br /><font size="-1">But trust is the color of a dark seed growing<br />Trust is the color of a heart's blood flowing<br />Trust is the color of a soul's last breath<br />Trust is the color of death<br /></font><p></p>


