# w_theory

created: 2001-01-06 00:00:00
subject: Faces
body:
<p>The prologue of <i>Winter's Heart</i> shows Rand seeing a face that is not Lews Therin. Lews Therin sees it as well and says:<blockquote>"I thought I could build. I was wrong. We are not builders, not you, or I, or the other one. We are destroyers. Destroyers."</blockquote>Something similar occurs in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>:<blockquote>"When he saw himself in a dream, it was not always himself at all that he saw.  It was not always Lews Therin, either, the face he had come to recognize as Lews Therin's.  Sometimes it was blurred, yet vaguely familiar, and Lews Therin seemed startled by it, too."</blockquote>Some people seem to think that this face is Moridin/the Wanderer.  I'm guessing Rand would remember the face of a man channeling something other than <i>saidin</i> a little more than vaguely.  No, the third face is none other than the next Dragon Reborn.  Why can Rand see his future self?  Well, why can he see his past self?  I don't know.  He's a crazy guy.  Maybe this kind of thing is normal after you're reborn a few thousand times.</p><p>Nonetheless, The third face is Rand's future, and quite possibly it is Logain.  The only time Rand saw Logain was when he was sitting on a wall in Caemlyn watching the procession of the caged False Dragon. Thus, he would only have a vague idea of familiarity with the face he is seeing.  Also, there have been several hints that Rand will survive Tarmon Gai'don by merging with Logain in an Isam/Luc kind of way.  How this is possible, I don't know, but I suspect that there might be a <i>ter'angreal</i> on the slopes of Shayol Ghul that makes this possible.</p><p>And hey, anybody notice that Ishamael/Moridin and Shaidar Haran are never in the same room together?  I think that Ishamael is pulling one of his old tricks again.  Instead of posing as the Dark One, now he is posing as the Super Fade.  Why?  Perhaps he has some problems acting confident in social situations.  Definitely, he enjoys motivating people through fear. And, everyone fears the Super Fade.  Ishamael is so clever.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have not yet really come to any serious conclusion about the third face.  Personally, I am leaning toward Ishamael/Moridin, but the idea of it being the "next Rand" is neat, too.  Of course, I'm going to be bummed if this isn't the LAST Battle, so hopefully it isn't the "next Rand."  Am I making sense?  Not really, I'm sure...  I also like the use of the phrase "He's a crazy guy" to explain something to do with Rand.  I'm going to be using that more often myself!  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-06 00:00:00
subject: Logain and the Taint
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<p>Do you recall Nynaeve Healing Logain? If I remember correctly when Nynaeve has been breaking the shield separating Logain from the Source she felt something peculiar - something that should not be there. And she fixed it!</p><p>What do we see in Snow? Logain is trying to find out how she Healed him. He is very interested in all details. Why is he doing this? Simply to protect the Asha'man from being gentled? I do not think so. There must be more behind this. I believe that there are two possible explanations:<ol><li>Logain is stronger in Power than he used to be and he wants to make his Asha'man stronger than Taim's.</li><li>Logain does not feel the taint any more! Nynaeve has Healed the vulnerable place in his talent, and he wants the same for other male chanellers.</li></ol>Both are possible but for me the second one is more convincing.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I do not know whether or not Logain is significantly stronger in the Power than he used to be - I seem to recall Jordan saying he was as strong as he used to be.  I also doubt Logain is free of the taint, but I don't feel like writing an entire paragraph about that.  In any event, it will certainly be interesting to see the exact reasons for Logain's interest in the Healing of severing.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-06 00:00:00
subject: The Third Destroyer and Rand's Sickness
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<p>Ever since Rand and the Wanderer crossed balefire beams in Shadar Logoth, the sickness Rand feels when he channels is getting worse and worse.  By the time "Snow" rolls around, Rand feels such weakness even when he is not channeling.  Why?</p><p>My theory centers on my belief that the Wanderer in Moridin, and Moridin is Ishamael.  These two beliefs have been argued ad infinitum, and the Theory Post contains several pieces on this argument.	Suffice to say that I agree with these theories.</p><p>In "Snow" page 98, Lews Therin says, "I thought I could build.	I was wrong.	We are not builders, not you, or I, or the other one.  We are destroyers.  Destroyers."</p><p>Even Rand thought Lews Therin's mention of a third person here was odd.  Three pages later, Rand sees something very strange.  He is struck with a fit of weakness although not channeling.  The book reads, "He turned to the window, to fetch the leather scrip, and a wave of dizziness hit him.  Knees turning to water, he stumbled.  A shimmering face he could not make out flashed through his head.  With an effort, he caught himself, forced his legs straight.  And the whirling sensation vanished.  Lews Therin panted hoarsely in the shadows.  Could the face be his?"</p><p>Who was the owner of this face?  Its appearance is very similar to that of Ba'alzamon's in <i>The Eye of the World</i>, especially in the first couple of dreams Rand had.  Secondly, in the prologue to <i>The Eye of the World</i>, Lews Therin screamed and panted hoarsely after Ishamael gave him recognition of what he had done.</p><p>These facts are a bit sketchy.	But when you combine them with the myriad theories supporting Ishamael as Moridin, and Moridin as the Wanderer, a trend develops.  I believe that Ishamael infected Rand when their balefire beams crossed.	This is why Rand now gets sick whenever he channels.  The infection is creating a doppelganger in Rand.  Rand is essentially infected with an incarnation of Ishamael, and Lews Therin knows this already.  This is Ishamael's way of turning Rand to the Dark One, thus ensuring the Dark One's victory at Tarmon Gai'don and the end to the Wheel of Time.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I would certainly agree that the other destroyer is Moridin/Ishamael.  But I am not so sure that the wanderer was purposely trying to infect Rand.  I do not have access to my books at the exact time I am writing this, but I recall that the wanderer seemed a little surprised/shook up by the crossing of their balefire streams as well.  Personally, I do no think the wanderer (who I agree was Moridin) planned on crossing the streams (but you said crossing the streams was bad...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /> ) with Rand in Shadar Logoth.  So to sum up my rambling - I would tend to agree the third destroyer is Moridin/Ishamael, but I am not sure whether or not the incident in Shadar Logoth has anything to do with Rand's current channeling problems.  Perhaps we will know in <i>Winter's Heart</i> if Rand manages to cleanse <i>saidin</i> and still has problems channeling...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-06 00:00:00
subject: Laying One Theory to Rest
body:
<p>After reading "Snow" I was thrilled that one of my least favorite theories could at last be put to rest.  The theory?  That Aviendha is pregnant...</p><p>When Elayne and Aviendha are getting ready for their ceremony, Elayne remarks that she wishes Melaine were there.  Monaelle responds that, "the babes she carries would be part of the bond between you and Aviendha, if the weaves brushed them.  If they survived, that is; the unborn are not strong enough for this."</p><p>So that means Aviendha was not pregnant.  Thank the Light!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Yes, it certainly does mean Aviendha was not pregnant.  I am sure plenty of people were disappointed by that - it would have made for an interesting plot twist if she was pregnant - kind of like Tigraine going into battle pregnant, would have been an interesting little parallel.  I know Jordan claims he does look at the Internet, but that seems unlikely (at least to me).  Is it possible he put in that quote (which does not have much else to do with the ceremony) just to lay to rest the questions about Aviendha's pregnancy?  Makes one wonder, that's for sure...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-06 00:00:00
subject: Tuon's Smiling Face
body:
<p>Min had a viewing of Mat in <i>The Eye of the World</i> - a red eagle, an eye on a balance scale, a dagger with a ruby, a horn, a laughing face.<br /><br />I believe the laughing face represents Tuon. During the course of <i>Winter's Heart</i>, she seemed to smile at Mat a lot. And when Mat said that she is his wife, she smiled. <br /><br />Someone disagreed with me saying the laughing represented Mat's prankster personality. But that wouldn't make sense with the context of what all is in that viewing. All the things Min saw were important parts of his future (the horn, the dagger, etc).<br /><br />So I believe Tuon is the fulfillment of the laughing face in this Viewing.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmmmm...  This is a definite possibility.  I've kind of wandered out of WoT for about a month, so I might be a little hazy on some things.  <img src="images/oh.gif" />  But I can't recall any other reasonable explanations of the laughing face from that viewing.  This explanation is as good as any other I can think of.  Nicely done!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-06 00:00:00
subject: Lanfear in Moiraine's Body
body:
<p>Here is a far flung idea.<br /><br />Cydane is Lanfear in Moiraine's body.  Both Cydane and Lanfear were stilled/killed when they went through the gateway.  Cydane has been reincarnated in Moiraine's youthful body (due to the stilling) with Moiraine's level of powers.  At some point Moiraine will reappear in Lanfear's body with Lanfear's powers and be the female person that will fight the last battle with Rand.  <br /><br />It seems to me that there is really no character that is a main part of the story, that is female, and has comparable strength to Rand.  This would fill this gap.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I need to read <i>Winter's Heart</i> again.  But from what I recall, Graendal was thinking Cyndane was nearly as strong as she herself.  Remember that Lanfear was stronger than Graendal.  And channeling ability is tied to the soul - Balthamel is still channeling <i>saidin</i> in a female body after <i>his</i> resurrection.  If Cyndane really is Lanfear, it would seem the Dark One must have taken away some of her ability as punishment, else one one would think she would have come back as strong as before.  I don't know how reasonable/likely it is that Cyndane is really Lanfear in Moiraine's body, but it would certainly be a fun twist to the story.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-07 00:00:00
subject: Taimandred Debunked in Winter's Heart
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<p>Mazrim Taim is not Demandred!!  In the climax of Winter's Heart, Demandred's point of view is used to depict his meeting with a ring of Aes Sedai and Asha'man.  We are finally provided irrevocable proof that Demandred was never, is not, and will most likely never become Mazrim Taim due to the telling thoughts of the Forsaken as the two do battle.  <br /><br />First, he sees a baldheaded old man limping through the trees and immediately considers him both decrepit and no threat whatsoever, completely failing to even recognize a man Taim knows well - Damer.  He is then shocked by the strength and speed of Damer's attack, as well as the attack itself.  If he had been Taim, he would have known full well the extent and tactics of all Asha'man including Damer, having trained them himself.<br /><br />Considering that this is told from Demandred's point of view, he would have to be even crazier than Rand or doing a really good impression of Sybil to still be Mazrim Taim after this revelation.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I was extremely happy when I read that specific scene of <i>Winter's Heart</i>.  Anyone who has been coming here for a while knows that I never believed the whole Taimandred theory, so I was a happy camper by the end of <i>Winter's Heart</i>.  I definitely agree, it would appear that Taimandred is dead!  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-08 00:00:00
subject: More of That Taimandred Debunking...
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<p>Granted the end of Winter's Heart clearly shows Demandred not to be Taim based on his ignorance of the Asha'man, but I found one earlier piece of evidence and I have not seen it posted yet. So here goes....<br /><br />On page 441 of Winter's Heart (Out of Thin Air) Raefar Kisman tells us Taim AND Demandred told them to kill Rand. This would indicate that they are two seperate people. I have not seen this posted before, is it too obvious?<br /><br />The only hang up is that Kisman goes on to say Demandred told them: "It would be better they died themselves then be discovered again. By anyone, even the M'Hael, as if he did not know of Taim's order." If Demandred somehow managed to dispose of Taim and take his place, etc, etc. (Which seems unlikely to me.) Why would give an order disguised as Taim and then again as himself? That does not seem logical to me.  I think once and for all, the Taimandred followers have been defeated. Unless they are going to argue that Taim IS Demandred, he just doesn't want the other bad guys to know that he is......Give it up!!</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> Goody, goody. OK, it's been well and truly proved that Taim isn't Demandred. Next, please.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-17 00:00:00
subject: Something Is Funny
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<p>Let me begin by saying I am still not convinced that the Taim-Demandred issue is settled.  I read the other theories and they definitely make good points but they do not mention past information.  </p><p>In <i>Lord of Chaos</i> it seemed so obvious Demandred was Taim.  Think about the knowledge that he displayed in front of Rand.  <ol><li>He knew how to test for the talent.</li><li>Referring to the "so-called" Aiel.</li><li>Similar in appearance.</li><li>Demandred was in the beginning and end of the book asking the Dark One if he had done well.</li></ol>Another thing to look at is when Perrin smells Taim.  Taim's emotions are very consistent to what those of Demandred might be if he were in a similar situation.  Also, Demandred is supposed to be a pretty smart guy.  The last thing he needs is a lot of people knowing his true identity especially Asha'man whether they are good or evil.  Plus, the closer one stays to their true form the better the weave for illusion works.  This might explain their similar appearance.</p><p>Finally I think Jordan may have threw in that part about not recognizing Damer to trick his readers so he could surprise them later.  Taim and Damer were hardly friends and it was over a pretty good distance.  The last thing Demandred expected to see was an Asha'man in a circle with Aes Sedai. </p><p>All I am saying is reread <i>Lord of Chaos</i> and <i>A Crown of Swords</i> before making a definite decision.  If Taim is not Demandred I think Jordan has a lot of explaining to do about how Taim survived so long and knows the things that he knows.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Anyone who has been here for a while knows I have never been a big fan of the whole Taimandred theory, so I was very happy with the events of <i>Winter's Heart</i> in that regard.  You say that Jordan will have a lot of explaining to do about Taim if it is proven he is not Demandred, but I think he would have even more explaining to do if it turns out Taimandred is the truth and somehow Taimandred did not recognize Damer.  Just because Damer and Taim might not have been great friends does not mean Taim (Taimandred) would not recognize one of the first Black Tower trainees.  I would also be horridly disappointed in Jordan if he put in that scene simply to throw us off the Taimandred track.  So, at least for me, I am hoping this particular theory is now dead and buried.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-18 00:00:00
subject: Dark Sense of Humor
body:
<p>Just a small theory about Lanfear's comeback...<br /> <br />After being resurrected as Cyndane, Lanfear has returned as a much weaker wielder of saidar.  Now, for the most part, Forsaken have come back with the same degree of power they held before, so it's a big question why Lanfear's abilities have changed so much.  I came up with a couple ideas off the top of my head that might make some sense of it.<br /> <br />1) Moridin, being Ishamael reincarnated, might not want ANY competition for Nae'Blis.  It's safe to assume he put a shield on Cyndane to keep her from using her full power and possibly rebelling against him.  This doesn't really coincide with the fact that he has her completely in check with the mindtrap anyway, so I think the next theory might be better.<br /> <br />2)  The Dark One, in a moment of poetic justice, punished Lanfear by putting a limit on her power the same way she did to Asmodean way back.  If she forced Asmodean to live under a shield, perhaps she sees that punishment as the worst agony she could deal with in her own life (she IS a power-hungry person).  Knowing she was something greater before would wreak havoc with her self-image... and Cyndane is quite the depression case, after all.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You're right that the resurrected Forsaken have all returned with their ability to channel the same as before.  I will be extremely interested to see why Cyndane can channel less than Lanfear - whether she really (by some miracle) isn't Lanfear or if it is Lanfear being punished or something completely different.  Maybe we will get a little chunk of the next book from Cyndane's point of view.  That would be most excellent...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Are Mat and Tuon Already Married?
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<p>Has anyone considered the possibility that Mat and Tuon are already married?  I know that in some real life cultures, all you have to do to marry a person is say you are married to them or call them your spouse or something.  Mat says Tuon is his wife (3 times, actually).  Maybe that is all you have to do in Seanchan?<br /><br />Notice Egeanin's response to this.  Instead of saying something like, "What the heck are you talking about?!?!"  she says something completely different.  I mean, if someone said they were married to someone they weren't married to, wouldn't people be likely to just say, "Whatever!" or "Huh?"  But Egeanin says, "You cannot say that!  You must not say that!" Of course, she could just mean that in her culture saying something like that about a person of Tuon's status is just an invitation to get your extremities chopped off or something, but I don't think so.<br /><br />When Mat asks why he can't say these things, no one says anything.  Before, Egeanin mentions that "it is death by slow torture to lay hands on the Daughter of the Nine Moons!"  So if punishment was all she was talking about when referring to Mat's claim that Tuon is his wife, it isn't unreasonable to assume she would have asserted that again.  You know, something like, "You cannot say that if you want to keep your head!" or something.  Also, notice Noal laughs.  Perhaps he knows Seanchan culture (he is very worldly) and he thinks it is funny that Mat doesn't and has just accidentally gotten married.  Most everyone else is just staring at him in shock.  Selucia even suddenly agrees to obey him (after a look of consternation), as long as he doesn't hurt Tuon.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> I don't believe it. A theory I haven't heard before. Anyway, to get back to the point, I say that it would be very amusing for that to happen, and not unlike Jordan to throw it in. Though I still think that he needs to throw in a threesome with Mat, Tuon and Tylin, or a foursome, with Rand, Ela....no, that's not it. Forget the guys, and just have a huge lesbian orgy. I'm willing to wait for that. <img src="images/oh.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: The Three Destroyers
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<p>Well, I believe that the plot lines revolving around the three "destroyers" blend in along with Moridin's identity. I think there are three aspects of the Dragon right now.<ul><li>There is Rand al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn.</li><li>There is Lews Therin Telamon, Lord of the Morning, echoing from within Rand's head with his memories and personality.</li><li>There is Moridin, an 'otherworld' aspect of what LTT could have been if he had fallen into the Shadow; he is strong, as much as the strongest of the Forsaken, really knowledgeable, and he was never really bound like the Forsaken were.</li></ul>Granted, it is more likely that Moridin is Ishamael, but on the other hand it doesn't really make sense; why would he hide his identity from the rest of the Forsaken if he is the first among them? Furthermore, I don't think that Lews Therin would refer to Ishamael as "the other one", he'd probably have used some quite more specific words, given the nature of their relationship. The term implied some familiarity, some way they are bound.</p><p>Or, of course, it could be yet-another Jordan Trojan horse to be resolved three and a half books from now. Who can say?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would have to agree it is more likely that Ishamael is Moridin.  But I also tend to think things would be slightly more interesting if Moridin was some crazy alter-world Dragon that turned to the Shadow.  And Jordan has a habit of making things interesting...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /></p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> 3 and a half books? Well, <i>someone's</i> optimistic...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Half the Light of the World
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<p>Concerning the "prophecy" that Mat will loose Half the Light of the World to save it: The sun is half the light and the moon is the other. We all know that Mat will have to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons. So my point, Mat will somehow lose his future wife who may be a rebel Seanchan to a political assassination and this will somehow unite the Seanchan in Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don. Mat's wife will be his half of the light of the world. If this is true then what is the other half of light in Mat's world?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I suppose this is a possibility...  Most people, though, seem to think this prophecy means Mat might lose an eye, and I think that is the most reasonable explanation I have heard to this point.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat Could Still Be Hawkwing
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<p>When Mat was hung in Rhuidean he was put on the brink of death. This may have been enough for the Wheel to spin out Hawkwing. It is at this point in the series when Mat develops his amazing general abilities and his ta&rsquo;veren-ess seems to be on a whole lot more. And, Hawkwing has not appeared in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod since the Falme episode anyway. Mat is Hawkwing reborn, or at least partially reborn.</p><p>This also presents a way for Olver to be Gaidal Cain reborn. Olver&rsquo;s parents were killed by the Shaido in Cairhien, but what if Olver was also mortally wounded. Cain could have been spun out and reborn into Olver. Having a new soul would have definitely revived him. This would give the Wheel a place to put Cain and have Birgitte find him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmm...  Why would Mat being on the brink of death be enough to spin out Hawkwing?  If Mat was Hawkwing reborn, he would have been that way since birth.  The same more or less goes for Olver.  My point is, I think the heroes are reborn, not inserted into someone&rsquo;s body after they have been alive for a while.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> And now you know why I never posted any theories in my early days. They can come back to haunt me. Know the feeling, Mashy? <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat - Son of Battles
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<p>I have heard a lot of theories on where gunpowder will eventually come from.  Most say Shara.  But there is a passage in <i>A Crown of Swords</i> that pretty much sums it up.  It&rsquo;s a dream prophecy of Egwene&rsquo;s (p 202):<blockquote>"Mat sat on a night-shrouded hilltop, watching a grand Illuminator&rsquo;s display of fireworks, and suddenly his hand shot up, seized one of those bursting lights in the sky.  Arrows of fire flashed from his clenched fist, and a sense of dread filled her.  Men would die because of this."</blockquote>Mat has always been intrigued by fireworks.  Mat will harness gunpowder as a weapon.  This I am pretty sure about.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have to agree - Mat plus fireworks will equal gunpowder.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat As Hawkwing?
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<p>It&rsquo;s just a thought but maybe Mat Cauthon is Hawkwing.  They are both ta&rsquo;veren, Mat could possibly be as ta&rsquo;veren as Hawkwing. They are both great generals. Also, Mat is supposed to marry this Daughter of the Nine Moons, which I believe is the Seanchan Empress. The Seanchan are very exclusive, especially those who are of the Blood. I cannot see them allowing their Empress to marry anyone except the Blood and who better to marry the Empress than Hawkwing reborn? My final thought is that both Mat and Hawkwing hate Aes Sedai and anything to do with the One Power.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There are similarities between Mat and Hawkwing, but there is one main argument against the idea - could Mat and Hawkwing have been at Falme together if Mat is Hawkwing reborn?  Seems sort of difficult to explain...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat, A Hero Reborn?!
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<p>Many people believe that Mat is a hero from the past. I agree, but I believe he is not Artur Hawkwing. If he was how could Artur and Mat be at the same place when he sounded the Horn. If he was, they would have the same spirit and one can not even be reborn or brought to life without a spirit. It would just be flesh and bones.</p><p>Now, back to my original theory. I think that Mat is King Aemon. First off, he was born in the same area King Aemon himself fought and died in his last stand and Rand was born the same spot Lews died. It brings  together a neat and interesting coincidence. If I&rsquo;m not mistaken Mat speaks the Old Tongue just as kings were taught (If I&rsquo;m wrong most kings know it anyway). Mat has the courage and battle skills to equal King Aemon. Another thing is that King Aemon led the Band of the Red Hand and so does Mat. Lastly, the holes in Mat&rsquo;s memory are filled with battles and, as I recall, one of the battles he remembers was the defeat of King Aemon. If he was Aemon he would certainly remember the event just like Rand remembers events with Lews. I hope you all understand this theory. If you just think about it, it makes sense!!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Mat might not be Aemon actually reborn (like Rand has Lews Therin&rsquo;s voice in his head) but he certainly is a man like Aemon.  His battle skills and memories seem to have more with what he gained in Finnland, but there are certainly similarities between Mat and the last king of Manetheren.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat and His Memories
body:
<p>My theory concerning Mat might be a little far fetched, but I think it&rsquo;s possible. This is long, so bear with me.</p><p>Some people think that Mat is a rebirth of all the people in his memories. It has been pointed out that some of the memories overlap in linear time, so Mat could not be the rebirth of all those people.</p><p>Now, for my theory, lets go back to <i>The Eye of the World</i>. In Chapter 18, "The Caemlyn Road," Moiraine, Lan, Thom, Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Nynaeve have left Baerlon and were heading towards Caemlyn when they are pursued by 500 Trollocs and five Myrddraal. A fist of Trollocs (one hundred Trollocs and a Myrddraal) catch up to them, and Lan, Rand, Mat and Perrin charge, while Moiraine fries Trollocs. In the charge, Mat shouts, "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!." After they escape the Trollocs, the Emond&rsquo;s Fielders are discussing what Mat shouted, and Egwene says that for a moment, she understood it, but then it was gone, Mat himself didn&rsquo;t know what it meant. Mysterious Moiraine appears right that instant and clarifies everything. Mat had shouted the ancient war cry of Manetheren, and the war cry of the last king of Manetheren (<i>The Eye of the World</i>, Chapter 18, "The Caemlyn Road," 271, paperback). Moiraine explains, "The blood of Arad&rsquo;s line is still strong in the Two Rivers. The old blood still sings." Now, <i>The Eye of the World</i>, Chapter 19, "Shadow&rsquo;s Waiting," 278, paperback, Thom gives an enlightening speech about the Old Blood that you might want to re-read, it&rsquo;s VERY helpful with Birgitte and Gaidal Cain theories, etc. One particular part, Thom says to Mat, "It was your roots, boy. A line running from your father to your grandfather, right on back to Manetheren, and maybe beyond." Keep this in mind.</p><p>Also, Mat speaks the Old Tongue when he is being healed at Tar Valon, "I'm no Aes Sedai meat," etc. He also speaks it at various other occasions, all of them WAY before the twisted door ter&rsquo;angreal at Rhuidean. So the twisted door ter&rsquo;angreal isn&rsquo;t completely to blame for Mat&rsquo;s current situation.</p><p>Now, some scientists believe there is a thing called genetic memory. They think that people have a rough memory of their ancestors. They claim it is responsible, for example, for the fact that some people do not feel comfortable while sitting with their backs to an open door, the reason being that early cave men did not sit inside a cave with their backs to the opening, anything could come in. While I find the idea of genetic memory a little far fetched, Robert Jordan may not, and he&rsquo;s writing the books, not me.</p><p>If you think about it, genetic memory is EXACTLY what the Old Blood is. Remember what Thom said?</p><p>Given that, I think that the people of Mat&rsquo;s memories are his ancestors. This way, it doesn&rsquo;t matter if Mat&rsquo;s memories overlap, since every higher lever in Mat&rsquo;s family tree would have twice the people in the level directly below it.</p><p>It also fits in perfectly in another sense, Mat says most of his memories are from Manetheren, and indeed, most of his blood is probably from Manetheren.</p><p>Given all this, I believe the foxy people gave Mat some sort of advanced genetic memory, so advanced that Mat remembers as if he had actually lived all that. As to why it&rsquo;s genetic memory and not something else, well, think of this. Before the twisted door ter&rsquo;angreal, Mat had normal genetic memory, he could speak snatches of the Old Tongue, etc. After the twisted door ter&rsquo;angreal, and I mean, RIGHT after, Mat speaks the Old Tongue fluently. And I say RIGHT after because when Rand takes Mat down from the tree in which he was hanging, Mat shows Rand the weapon he got, with the inscription in the Old Tongue. The Old Tongue can further be connected to the memories when Mat finds out Birgitte is Birgitte, and she says he has many different accents when speaking in the Old Tongue, and he switches between them like quicksilver. So I guess the different accents are from the different people his memories are from.</p><p>Now, I also think Mat can channel. Bode, his sister, was born with the spark, Moiraine and Verin both say the Old Blood is the cause for there being so many women who can channel in the Two Rivers, channeling is a genetic trait, as we see when Graendal talks to Sammael about the Shara, and we also see in marrying habits in the Age of Legends, ie: Asmodean&rsquo;s mother could channel, etc, Egwene also has the Old Blood running strong in her, she says various times that she could "almost" understand what Mat said in the Old Tongue, the Old Blood must run strong through her, and she was born with the spark, Manetheren had strong ties with the White Tower, the queen was Aes Sedai and the king a Warder, there are too many clues lying about for it to be just coincidence. Mat as Tamyrlin? Hmm...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now that is what I call a theory!  I love to see citations...  There are definitely some interesting thoughts in there.  I was kind of wondering where you would end up, but I never saw the Mat as Tamyrlin comment coming.  Can you imagine the look on Mat&rsquo;s face if he discovered he could channel?  The entire explanation makes sense - next time I talk to Mr. Jordan I will ask him if he believes in genetic memory.  Of course, I have never talked to him before, so the next time might still be a ways away...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat Could Not Be Hawkwing
body:
<p>I take back my theory that Mat Cauthon could still be Artur Hawkwing reborn. The first among the reasons is this: While rereading the Fires of Heaven I read a passage (pg. 394, very top) in which Mat (actually another man, but essentially Mat) remembers being taller than Rand while riding against Hawkwing. It certainly isn&rsquo;t possible that Mat could be both Hawkwing and Hawkwing&rsquo;s enemy. While he may share some of the same traits as Hawkwing, such as his not quite hate, but certainly no love, for Aes Sedai, Mat is not Hawkwing.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You changed your mind but I&rsquo;ll play devil&rsquo;s advocate...  Those memories in Mat&rsquo;s head are not lives he has lived, just memories he now possesses.  So it is not as if he was living as two people at once.  He may have been Hawkwing at the time, and been given some of the memories of a man who rode against him.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Perrin&rsquo;s Role
body:
<p>Perrin Aybara is a fairly simple, down to earth character in WoT. He is a friend of Rand and Mat, and is gifted with the ability to talk to wolves. But what makes Perrin significant? He was completely left out of <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>, and he hasn't really done anything big since Dumai's Wells.</p><p>First, he is a member of the ta'veren trio from Emond's Field. This alone would make him significant and worthy of mention. All three will play an important role before the series is all over with. Just because Rand is getting all the attention now doesn't mean that Mat or Perrin aren't important. A Myrddraal once said to Mat cut down one leg, and the tripod falls.</p><p>Second is Perrin's ability to talk to wolves. That is cool in and of its self. But a lot comes with this ability. Wolves exist in both the real world and in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> (TDR,123), so Perrin uses his wolf dream to visit <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. While in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, he sometimes sees a window appear in the sky. Jordan uses this as a type of foreshadowing like Min's viewings. Another thing is his ability to smell emotions of people just as dogs or wolves would. Using this he could clearly tell that the Prophet was mad (PoD, 579). One last ability that comes with being a Wolfbrother is that Perrin (and Elyas) might have the ability to detect someone who can channel. Dogs, cats, and wolves can (TSR,671).</p><p>Third is a little more complicated. Rand, Mat, and Perrin are characters patterned after gods of the Norse Mythology. In Norse Mythology there is a destroyer (Rand), a protector (Mat), and a builder (Perrin). The roles themselves are self explanatory, but how they apply to the WoT may not be. Rand will destroy things, tangible and intangible - he may even break the world again. Mat is there to protect; whether it is to protect the people or Rand is not yet clear, but this is where his general skills will really play a role. Perrin is the builder or probably re-builder. After Rand is finished destroying, whenever that is, Perrin will come into play by making the world whole again. He should have the help of the common man to do this (see my next point). This "builder" theme is where the whole hammer/axe thing comes in to play. Perrin hates his axe, but he can't get rid of it because he still needs it to live or hack up things, whatever the case may be. But there should come a time when he can discard the axe and take up the hammer and make things whole again.</p><p>Fourth is his general nature and personality. Perrin is almost always depicted as a calculating, down to earth character. His passive, slow nature should keep the "checks and balances" of Rand's on-edge personality. Perrin and Rand have a falling out in one book where Perrin disagrees with Rand, and is then thrown out. It ends up being a plan to fool the public, yet it might not have started that way, given one another's personality. Perrin's personality (and ta'veren -ness) also makes him get along with the common man. He does well commanding the commons in battle (Two Rivers battle in <i>The Shadow Rising</i> and in Dumai's Wells in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> ) and in day to day life, though he doesn't want to be a Lord, and until <i>The Path of Daggers</i> refuses to be called such. This should be a major help when the time comes for him to be the builder (see point 3).</p><p>Lastly is Perrin's marriage to Faile Bashere. Davram Bashere (Faile's father) is second only to Queen Ethenielle in ruling Saldaea. This puts Perrin (Faile actually) within two deaths of ruling a Borderland country. Two deaths really isn't that far fetched seeing as both Bashere and Queen Ethenielle are military leaders with Queen Ethenielle now marching against Rand. Three deaths and Perrin would inherit Saldea. Though I doubt Robert Jordan will kill Faile.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Perrin is definitely a builder...  Perhaps he will rebuild Manetheren after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don is over?  Mat and Rand do seem to get the most attention in the books (<i>The Path of Daggers</i> being the exception for Mat), but Perrin is just as important as the other two.  I look forward to seeing Perrin take on a leading role in Randland after the Last Battle, perhaps letting Rand get a well-deserved rest.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Perrin Another Artur Hawkwing?
body:
<p>Okay, I'm NOT saying that Perrin is Hawkwing reborn, but that his role is leading up to something akin to Hawkwing's.  Perrin has been linked to the role of the builder throughout the series, just as Rand has been linked with the role of Destroyer, and Mat of Preserver.  Now from what I can interpret, this sounds like Perrin will have a large role in a post Tarmon Gai'don Randland. Being the builder it sounds like Perrin will have his hands full rebuilding and unifying the countries a la Hawkwing.  To support this I'd like to point out an interesting parallel. As stated in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>, if the Queen of Saldaea does not bear any heirs, it will be the family of Bashere that will succeed. Perrin is married to the heir apparent of House Bashere and therefore is in a good position to attain the throne.  Now I'd like to submit that Artur Hawkwing was from the region that is currently called Saldaea in Randland.  The parallels in the appearance of Hawkwing, especially considering his bold nose, to that of a Saldaean are too strong to be anything else. That Hawkwing is linked to Saldaea would lend credence the the "Broken Crown" that was mentioned near the end of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>.  The "Broken Crown" of course represents the Crown of the High King who unified all of Randland.  I cannot help but disagree with those who say that Mat is Hawkwing reborn simply because of the fact that Perrin seems more linked to the High King than Mat.  Even at the very beginning of the series in <i>The Eye of the World</i>, it is Perrin who visits the site where Hawkwing was to build his glorious city.  Before I start rambling about Mat and his memories and whether he's someone reborn Ill end it here.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There is nothing wrong with a little rambling - I have been known to do it myself on occasion...  I would tend to think that of our three ta'veren Perrin will have the largest role after Tarmon Gai'don; Rand will probably take a well-deserved vacation, and Mat does not like to work at all.  A relaxed life after the Last Battle would be a good (and I think likely) end for both Rand and Mat.  I do not think Perrin will unite all the nations, but I can see him rebuilding Manetheren.  Also, I think Faile might not like your comment that Perrin is in a good position to attain the Saldaean throne...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Robert Jordan as a Toraic Student
body:
<p>I have found with some study of the Torah, that Robert Jordan could in fact have been inspired in large part by the book of genesis in its Hebrew Form. To start with, let me note that the Torah possesses no vowels. Thus, my first point is one which is strictly interpretational. The first word of the Torah is generally accepted to be Beraysheet. This means In The Beginning, and it was translated as such into the Christian Bible many years later. BUT, due to the absence of vowels, the word COULD have been Baraysheet, which means In A Beginning... As if to imply that G-D has tried many times before and will many times again... It is a short jump to turn this into a WoT style philosophy.</p><p>Second, In the creation section, it speaks of God's creation of the Great Sea DRAGON Leviathan, followed by the beasts being Sealed away until the end of time. It was said that at the end of time, Leviathan will break free for one Final battle with God for the fate of the universe... It is once again a short leap to equate Leviathan to the Dark One, and the end of time to the end of an Age before God "tries again" and another beginning comes again...  As you can see, there are many parallels to the WoT in the Torah, the rest of them are all Deep Torah which just gets confusing, so I won't bother, but as you can see, though Robert Jordan is not a Jew (as far as I know) his love of mythology shows that it could well be that he's done his homework...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is a very interesting theory!  I had never read anything about this before, and you are totally correct - it certainly does sound quite a bit like Randland...  If this is where Jordan got some of the basic philosophy behind his mythology (Creator versus the Dark One, etc.), I think this would help clear up the argument of whether or not the Creator created the Dark One.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Interesting Note About Ishamael
body:
<p>I was in church one morning, when I was paging through Genesis, and Icame upon this:<blockquote>"And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou are with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."Genesis, 16:11-12 King James version</blockquote>I realize of course that this verse doesn't have much to do with anything in the books, but it does pose an interesting idea about how Robert Jordan got the name and the personality, don't you think? Sorry, but I'm not done yet...</p><p>That verse might have given him the idea of Ishamael being only half trapped, "dwell in the presence of all his brethren" or even how he can enter dreams. But this is a theory of my own (it is kind of crazy but bear with me for a minute...)</p><p>What if Ishamael's soul is the son of the soul of the Dragon? That biblical story goes on to say how Abram, (later known as Abraham) fathered this son, Ishmael, but then threw him and the servant who was his mother out. He banished them because his wife Sarai (later known as Sarah) didn't want any attention being brought to Ishmael, only that of her son. This could definitely explain any conflict that Ishamael may have with Lews Therin. I may even go as far as to say the servant represents Lanfear, but that would be stretching it, don't you think?</p><p>As I am writing this, I think about the similarities between Abram and the Dragon (whether it be Lews Therin, or Rand al'Thor). They were all a general "messiah" figure, and had great lands under their control. Well, this is the end of my theory. Tell me what you think. I would love some input!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> We all know that Jordan pulls his names and characters from a great number of sources.  And you are certainly correct - the soul of Ishamael as the son of the soul of Lews Therin would certainly be an interesting twist to the story.  Other than that, not much more to say on this one...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Mat/Odin Similarities
body:
<p>I've read a lot on the Internet about the similarities between Mat and the Norse god Odin, and so decided to do a bit of reading myself. The obvious parallels cannot be missed. This is not so much a theory as an exploration of those similarities, and maybe the gleaning of the possible future of Mat in the books.</p><p>Firstly, the similarities of appearance. These are real tell tale signs. First, Odin carried an infallible spear called Gungnir, which was so sacred that an oath sworn upon its point could never be broken. I can't recall if anyone (members of the Band of the Red Hand?) has sworn any oaths on the spear in the books. On Mat's spear there are two ravens, called thought and memory. On Odin's shoulder there sat two ravens named Hugin (thought) and Munin (memory), whom he sent out over the world every morning, and whom every night would return and whisper in his ear the news of the world. This could be a parallel with the knowledge in Mat's head that pops up when he needs it. Odin wore the ring Draupnir upon his finger (or his arm according to some texts). Draupnir was a symbol of fruitfulness in Nordic mythology. This is obviously similar to the ring Mat buys in Ebou Dar... Could the reference to fruitfulness be related to recent or future happenings in Mat's love life? Finally, when wandering the earth, Odin wore a wide brimmed hat kept low to conceal that he was missing an eye. We know that Mat wears the hat, but has not lost an eye... But as I recall there is a reference to Mat wearing the hat because the light hurt his eyes after being affected by the Shadar Logoth dagger (not sure where).</p><p>Secondly, there are the similarities of circumstance. First we have Odin's acquisition of knowledge... He hung from the life tree Yggdrasil, gazing into hell for some time until he gained omnipotence. Obviously similar to Mat hanging from the tree in Rhuidean. Odin also had an adopted abandoned son called Geirrod, of whom I will talk a little more later on. Finally, there is an obscure folk tale on which some of the mythology of Odin is based that the venerable Mr. Jordan obviously... borrowed... for the purpose of the books. Odin was a chieftain of a Russian tribe who sought refuge in Sweden when under persecution from the Romans. Here he and his tribe were granted their own kingdom by the King of Sweden, Gylfi. One day, Gylfi journeyed to Odin's palace to see if rumors of his great powers were true. Here he saw a vision of three divinities named Har, Iafn-Har and Thridi, sitting on thrones, each placed higher than the last. At Gylfi's asking, the visions imparted to him the entire history of the Nordic races. After the telling, a deafening noise was heard throughout the palace, and it suddenly disappeared. This is to close to Mat's encounter in Finnland to be coincidence.</p><p>Thirdly (I do go on, don't I?) there is Odin's rich and varied relations with women. Odin is said to have had seven wives at various point in his life: Jord, the daughter of the night; Frigga, the goddess of civilization and clouds (possibly Tylin I think - Frigga was said to be strong willed and often argued with her husband); Rinda, a personification of frozen earth who yields to Odin's love; Saga, the goddess of history; and finally Grid, Gunlod, and Skadi. Does anyone notice any other parallels between Mat's women and Odin's wives? Finally, on the women point, (and this is a long shot) Odin's son Heimdall was borne to him by nine giantesses simultaneously (huh?). Could the Daughter of the Nine Moons be a reference to these giantesses, and will her and Mat's son play the same pivotal role that Heimdall played in the Last Battle?</p><p>Fourthly (can you say fourthly?), there is the question of Odin's numerous sons and any possibly connection with Olver. Firstly there is Heimdall, whom I think will probably be a character yet to come, so not him. Secondly there is Hoder (who is blind so also no) and Balder (who is considered to be exceptionally beautiful, so definitely no). Next is Thor, which I doubt. This finally brings me to Geirrod, whom I have mentioned previously and has a few parallels to Olver, but also some glaring differences. Geirrod and his brother Agnar were stranded upon an island, lost to their parents, and were adopted by Odin and Frigga respectively. Obviously Olver doesn't have a brother that we know about so I'll ignore Agnar for the time being. Odin brought Geirrod up to be a great fighter and leader of men, but being a warrior and not a father, failed to teach him correct morals. Fearing this, Odin disguised himself as a stranger (with the hat) and visited Geirrod. However Frigga, in an attempt to win a bet with Odin, had warned Geirrod to beware of strangers. Upon Odin's arrival, Geirrod had him seized and tortured for a number of days. Upon the eighth day, Odin began to sing and his bonds fell away. Upon seeing that it was his foster father that he had treated so cruelly, Geirrod promptly committed suicide by falling on his own sword. Could there be a reference to future events between Olver and Mat in this story?</p><p>And, finally, for a couple of predictions. Firstly there is the one that many people are aware of - Odin's loss of an eye. Legend has it that a man name Mimir (memory) had a well that granted its drinker great knowledge. Odin wanted such a drink, but Mimir, realizing the power a drink would give the god, set the price at one of Odin's eyes. Odin accepted the price, and sacrificed the eye for a drink which gave him great knowledge, but also brought him great sadness as he now knew the way of his own death. Could the price of a wish in the Finnland that Mat hasn't visited yet be an eye? With Jordan, who can tell? Another prediction involves a strange myth that tells that Odin disappeared for a long period during a long hard winter (a visit to Seanchan for Mat perhaps?) and was replaced by a false Odin, under whose reign there was much sadness in the world until he returned and overthrew the usurper.</p><p>So that's it for the Mat/Odin similarities (phew). I hope it has inspired many of you to rebuttals and arguments. Of course nobody can ever accurately predict what Jordan is going to do next with the series, and I'm sure that he is not going to rigidly stick to any one mythology, but you never know. As one final note, many people have pointed out similarities between Odin and Rand, and that last one seems very likely under such comparisons.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Two Norse theories in one week?  What the heck is going on here?  <img src="images/wink.gif" /> I like a lot of the ideas in here, and I think it sheds some interesting light on what might happen to Mat as the series progresses.  It would be a very interesting twist to things if Olver eventually (and unknowingly) betrays Mat...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: More Mythology Theories
body:
<p>Jordan has said in the past that he deliberately made Rand like the Norse god Tyr.  What exactly does this mean for Rand and everyone else?  Common knowledge is that Rand will lose a hand; Tyr's was bitten off by the wolf Fenrir when the gods tricked the beast, and Min's visions and Egwene's dreams both back this up.  But what else is known about Tyr?</p><p>In the time of Ragnarok (Tarmon Gai'don for Rand and company), he fights and defeats the hound of hell, Garm, but is himself mortally wounded.  Before his encounter with Mordeth, Fain was "the Dark One's hound," and something of him still is.  Rand certainly will fight him again at some point and do so to the death of at least one of them.  Garm is also sometimes equated with Fenrir, so there's a possibility of Fain being tied in to Rand losing a hand as well.</p><p>Of course, Rand's previous encounter with Fain nearly killed him; the dagger wound would have been fatal to just about everyone else and could have been the "mortal wound" Tyr received fighting Garm.  But I had to mention this one, because it's just weird enough to be something down the road.</p><p>Also, although it's debatable that Rand will actually die at Tarmon Gai'don (the way Rand himself seems so sure of it makes me suspicious), I think he'll be Healed by the Aes Sedai (probably Nynaeve) afterwards. Remember the three women over his funeral bier in Min's viewing?  In Arthurian legends, Arthur, after being mortally wounded in his "last battle" (Tarmon Gai'don for Rand) is sent on his bier to Avalon.  Now here's the interesting point: some versions, rather than treating this as Arthur's death, claim he went there to be healed.  Accompanying him in some versions are Morgase's daughter Elaine (see any parallels here?), along with two other women.  Tar Valon, whose name may be derived from Avalon, is surrounded by water...  And Nynaeve I suspect will become the greatest healer ever and perhaps even learn something very close to resurrection; she's always saying, "Anything short of death should be able to be Healed..." Parts of this could apply to Artur Hawkwing as well; he did after all turn down Aes Sedai Healing while on his deathbed.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> More Norse theories with every update - what could be more exciting?  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /> It is common knowledge that Rand will lose a hand?  Admittedly, it is late when I am working on this, but that does not ring a bell with me...  Anyway, I like a lot of the parallels you bring up - both Norse and Arthurian.  Someday, many years from now, I look forward to seeing the end of this series.  Then we will all get to come back and see what everyone had to say in the middle of the series.  Should be fun, without a doubt!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: The Attack On Seanchan Land
body:
<p>I started to read <i>The Eye of the World</i> for the eighth time and I noticed that Min had one viewing that no one seems to think is important. She saw him pouring water on sand. There could be many different explanations to this but I think it has something to do with him invading the land of the Seanchan. If you think about it everyone has their theories on Min&rsquo;s viewings except that one so I wanted to make my thoughts known. Everyone seems to know everything about what Rand is going to do, so what is he going to do? I think he will invade Seanchan, that is all.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I took that viewing to be the scene where Rand brings water back to the Aiel Waste in Rhuidean.  Sooner or later the Seanchan should end up serving Rand, though I do not know if it will involve an invasion of their continent.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Seanchan Solved
body:
<p>I've got a nifty little theory on how Rand will rid himself of the thorn in his side, the Seanchan. The Seanchan that are already on the Randland continent will have been dealt with by Rand and company, possibly, to simplify this. One thing has to happen - the Tower has to be unified, and the Horn of Valere recovered. (You can probably see where this is going now...) And maybe in that process Mesaana will be dealt with. Anyway, Rand will gain possession of the Horn of Valere. He will now have Aes Sedai on his side, as well as Asha'man. He will take a couple of each, along with the Band of the Red Hand, and Mat (if he can find him) to Seanchan via gateway. Maybe Mat will be sent to Seanchan, and Rand and company will find him there.</p><p>As we know, the Seanchan are a huge force. The ones that we have seen thus far are just a trickle. They are supposed to be the people that do the scouting before the real Return, and when the real Return happens, all hell will break loose. But Rand will get Mat, and will proceed to meet the Empress of Seanchan. Mat will call on the Horn of Valere, and Artur Hawking will tell the Seanchan to follow Rand. And in one giant swoop, Rand has just gathered a huge army and gotten rid of the threatening Seanchan. Mat will also probably hook up with the Daughter of the Nine Moons at this time as well, or meet her for the first time at least...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think it is very likely that the Seanchan will be behind Rand at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  I am not sure if I believe this is how it will happen, though...  Personally, I am partial to the idea that Mat&rsquo;s raven-marked spear will end up having something to do with him gaining status with the Seanchan.  But Rand Traveling to Seanchan is a definite possibility as well.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-19 00:00:00
subject: Why the Seanchan Will Follow Rand
body:
<p>This comes from out of left field, but it was when I read about the WoT being based in Scandinavian myth that it clicked with me.</p><p>In <i>The Great Hunt</i>, on page 22 in the paperback edition, Rand is thinking to himself: "...for Rand, 'al' was just a part of his name, though he had heard that once, long ago, before the Two Rivers was called the Two Rivers, it had meant 'son of.'"</p><p>So, in other words, Jordan is calling Rand "son of Thor," who is the god of thunder and lightning in Scandinavian myth.</p><p>Later in the same book, page 107 in the paperback edition, Verin Sedai is talking with Moiraine and Siuan about prophecy. She says, "And one of the old names from Artur Hawkwing was the Hammer of Light."</p><p>Now, Thor carried a hammer as his chief weapon. Couldn't it be that this is a veiled reference to the importance of the role that the armies of the Seanchan could play for Rand? It's been said before that they are truly a powerful army.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is an interesting connection, one that had not occurred to me.  I would simply like to add that Artur Hawkwing's son Luthair was also known as the Hammer when he conquered the established nations of Seanchan.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-20 00:00:00
subject: The Three Destroyers
body:
<p>Perhaps Lews Therin (whatever part of him is left to occupy Rand's mind, that is) has finally given up hope.  Maybe it was in the time his soul spent between dying and being incarnated as Rand (wherever it was, Tel'aran'rhiod or otherwise) he realized the pointlessness of his struggle against the Shadow.  He knows he is doomed to repeat these battles as long as the wheel turns and wishes to end it all.  It might explain that strange desire to break the seals, but it could also explain who the third destroyer is. <br /><br />You can see how Lews Therin might possibly feel about the One Power, the force that drives the Wheel, and anyone who channels it.  He might feel as though channeling could only bring about more suffering, making all channelers destroyers.  Wasn't it Aes Sedai, wielding the One Power who freed the Dark One?  Didn't they (the men anyway) break the world?  Perhaps allowing the Dark One to win is the only way out.  And Lews Therin is crazy enough to believe that. <br /><br />I propose that the "other one" Lews Therin mentions is Alanna.  At that point she is the only person in Rand's head besides Lews Therin, and is also a channeler.  We all know Lews Therin is uncomfortable around Aes Sedai, but he was terrified of Alanna and her presence in Rand's mind after the bonding.   It's a simple explanation that (I think) fits best.  Lews Therin has grumbled about Alanna before (sorry if I can't remember when or what was said.)  I rule out any of the Forsaken only because Lews Therin usually speaks of them as a group, or individually by name.  Other possibilities include Taim and Cadsuane, the two other major channelers on Rand's mind now.  Verin doesn't bother Rand as much as these two and a single Asha'man or Aes Sedai  probably wouldn't stand out enough for Lews Therin to mention him or her as the "the other one."  Rand's only contact with Moridin was in Shadar Logoth (if it even was Moridin.)  I doubt Rand remembers the incident clearly but perhaps Lews Therin does remember and knows something Rand does not.  So there's the fourth possibility. <br /><br />However I still feel that Alanna is the best candidate for the third destroyer because she is a constant presence in Rand's mind (whose existence troubles or frightens Lews Therin.) She fits the bill of a channeler as a destroyer; she bonded Rand without his consent (essentially raping him) which is doubly a crime to Lews Therin, with his particular feelings toward channelers.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> Hmmm...let me think...no. But feel free to send a few more like that, they're always good for a laugh.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-20 00:00:00
subject: What will Rand's Lesson be?
body:
<p>Before Logan was stilled, he was going along the basic conqueror mode of attack, building up his army and attacking other nation's armies, but along the way he also started burning villages, and when one of the characters, I forget which, Egwene or Elayne, makes some comment of sympathy about Logain being stilled, and as lost as a blind puppy, someone makes the comment, "tell that to his victims."<br /><br />The point is that Logain was not the best of men, or at least not the kindest, but after being stilled, he seemed to become "gentler"(sic). Protecting Min, Leane, and Siuan on their flight from the White Tower, albeit for his own reasons, but also becoming the "good" faction leader in the Black Tower. I'm not sure how much that holds up, as we have not seen much of Logain, before and after stilling, but he definitely seems changed.  He even goes so far as to recognize Rand as the Dragon Reborn, though whether he will go Taim's route in wanting to be First, not second is up for grabs.<br /><br />But, Rand and the other Ash'aman are destined to be taught a lesson at Cadsuane's hands, and they aren't going to like it. At the end of Winter's Heart she makes the comment to Verin that she needs to remind Rand that he is human, not stone, and that if he does not, his victory will be the same as losing to the Dark One, becoming Shai'tan himself. <br /><br />What better way to teach a demigod he's human than by taking away what makes him godlike?  Rand and the rest of the Ash'aman could be temporarily stilled, and Nynaeve's Healing restores men, at least, to their full strength.</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> *looks around carefully* Just don't let <font color="#000099"><b>wotmania</b></font> see that last paragraph. <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-20 00:00:00
subject: Asmodean's Killer
body:
<p></p><p>After reading Winters' Heart (as well as the rest of the series...). I think I finally hold the solution of the identity of Asmodean's Killer: Slayer!</p><p>Here are the arguments of my belief:</p><p>First the fact that we know beforehand or during WH (recap. on what others said):</p><ol type="a"><li>Asmodean knew the killer and was afraid of him.</li><li>It was a swift death</li><li>Went undetected</li><li>There was no body</li><li>The Dark One knew that he died the Final Death</li><li>Isam and Luc went missing before the Forsaken got back (that argument for later use)</li></ol><br />New facts from WH (end of the "Out of thin air" chapter):<ol type="a" start="24"><li>Isam/Luc can step in and out from Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh.</li><li>His master is the DO</li><li>Forsaken have to beg him to "use" his service</li></ol><br />Here are the questions that have to be answered (by Knarfling):<ol><li>Means (how it was done)</li><li>Motive (why)</li><li>Opportunity (had to be in Caemlyn at the time or have a way of getting there.)</li><li>Recognized by Asmodean (and scared him)</li><li>Disposed of the body</li><li>Knows Asmodean's fate</li><li>The reason the death is kept secret. (why doesn't Jordan reveal it?)</li><li>Be "obvious" (as per Robert Jordan)</li></ol><p>    1, 3 & 5.    By the fact found at the beginning of the post (x), it is fairly easy to answer: Slayer went to Caemlyn in Tel'aran'rhiod (where time is relative), opened a portal where Asmodean was (still have to figure out how, but we don't know everything about the Dream World), pulled him in in the flesh and killed him there undisturbed.</p><p>With that scenario, we solve (b), (c) and (d) for sure. "His voice hung in the air" as the portal closed. Undetected asneither Saidin nor Saidar were channeled, and we have no indication that a portal made by a dream walker can be detectable. And finally, since the body is in Tel'aran'rhiod, it's not in the real world.</p><p>    2.    Why did he kill him? Because the DO asked him to do it, since Asmodean was a weakling and a treator. And, from WH, we know that Slayer obeys Sightblinder (y).</p><p>    4.    Recognized by Asmodean: Here argument (f) enters. The Forsakens seem to know about Slayer as they have met the man (or the 2 men if you prefer): </p><p><i>"The other Chosen were not that careful. [...]"</i> (Still at the end of 'Out of Thin Air') even if it wasn't explicitly said anywhere else. So since Slayer was created between the birth of Rand and the death of Asmodean (he was with Perrin before it happened), there is a possibility that Asmo and Isam/Luc met before and by the argument (z), Forsaken were somewhat afraid of him (you don't have to beg if you're not scared of someone). Put some glue in there and you explain argument (a).</p><p>    6.    It isn't said anywhere that Slayer knows about that, but the DO knows. How? He asked Slayer to kill Asmo, which he did and reported back. The DO knows that it is a final death (e) and it is mentionned countless of times that you die the Final Death if you die in T'A'R (thanx Hopper for telling it several times to Perrin <img src="images/wink.gif" /></p><p>    7.    Why conceal it? As RJ said in several chats, he really likes to look at the unending squabbling over that so he continues to hold back the information.</p><p>    8.    With the elements we learn during WH and some glue at the right places, the solution becomes pretty straight forward...</p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> How quaint. An Asmo theory with proof. What next, someone claiming Taim isn't Demandred? <br /><br /><br /><br />Oh...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Ogier and the One Power
body:
<p>It seems to me that the Ogier must have some connection to the One Power, but it is totally different than humans&rsquo; channeling. I explained in another theory that the One Power is distilled and transformed when channeled by a human being. The Ogier on the other hand do not distill the Power when they channel.</p><p>Talents like Treesinging use Spirit, although it is not distilled and therefore does not require weaving. Other things that the Ogier do that require channeling, but they do not know it of course, is their amazing abilities as stonemasons. The shaping of stone uses Earth, Fire, and possibly Water.</p><p>Someone is bound to say that inside the stedding the True Source cannot be sensed and therefore how can any Ogier channel in this situation. An Ogier does not channel in the same as a human would. They simply take energy out of the existing, un-distilled Power around them. The True Source is only something that human beings need to use the Power. It does not exist solely for that reason, it is the focal point from which all the energy in the World of the Wheel comes. Humans cannot absorb energy from around them or take energy from a living thing, as an Ogier does when he or she Treesings. Ergo, the True Source does not need to be "sensed" in a stedding  for an Ogier to do his or her special type of channeling.</p><p>I haven&rsquo;t puzzled out the how or why of the disappearance of the True Source in a stedding, but I&rsquo;ll get back to you on that one.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmm...  I do not have much to say on this one, as I have never really thought about this before.  I cannot recall it saying anywhere how exactly Treesinging works - this might be a possible explanation.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Ogier
body:
<p>I've come up with a theory about the Ogier. It started out as a possible link between the Longing and the taint on <i>saidin</i>, and has evolved a bit (especially when I looked at Mashardaman's theory "Ogier and the One Power").</p><p>First of all, consider the facts we know about the Longing:</p><p>1) It started during the Breaking. Before, Ogier were able to leave their stedding at will for any length of time.</p><p>2) It affects different Ogier differently - specifically, it appears to affect some Ogier much quicker than others.</p><p>3) It goes away as soon as the stedding is entered, but any ill effects caused by it remain. (For example, the Ogier who remained with the Sea Folk for ten years - Dalar - was forced to walk with the aid of a stick on returning to the stedding).</p><p>These three points hint at the possibility that Ogier are somehow linked to <i>saidin</i>, and that the Longing is the taint's effect - compare point 2 with how the taint affects male channelers, and point 3 with how the madness/rotting sickness is arrested, but not cured, once the link to <i>saidin</i> is severed.</p><p>This would also lead to the interesting possibility that should such a thing as an Ogier Darkfriend exist, they might be immune to the Longing.</p><p>Now for some more Ogier facts:</p><p>4) Ogier have several talents - the eldest of Stedding Tsofu can sense ta'veren. Loial, of course, can Treesing (and can possibly sense ta'veren also - recall in <i>The Eye of the World</i> how he suddenly announces that Rand, Mat and Perrin are all ta'veren, before Moiraine had worked it out.) Mashardaman's theory mentioned their massive skill in stonework, and there is the Ogier sensitivity to the mood of a place.</p><p>5) Ogier are very long-lived compared to the average human - this is perhaps just a species trait, but consider that some of the Kin have reached 400 years old, and Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends often reached that age and much more.</p><p>Now, as there is the possibility that Ogier are linked to <i>saidin</i>, might they not also be linked to <i>saidar</i> as well? Ogier certainly predate the Breaking of the World, and so they existed in a time when the two halves of the Power were used together for many things. Furthermore, I'd guess that the entire species may even be a genetic construct (such as the Nym) from the Age of Legends, not only created with the aid of the Power, but also designed to use it in certain ways - just as Aes Sedai could be likened to an angreal (can concentrate the Power and use it for many things), maybe Ogier can be likened to a kind of organic <i>Ter'angreal</i> - built to perform specific tasks with the Power (Treesinging and so on) but also be living, breathing creatures. Perhaps the whole race started as an Age of Legends experiment to determine whether a new life form could be created that could use the Power.</p><p>The only thing I'm looking for an explanation for is the stedding themselves. There's evidence that they are shields of some sort (they cannot be entered in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, just as the shield around Rhuidean prevented access) but not what they shield against (except the One Power). One possibility is that they didn't always exist, but were set up as shields against the Shadow at some point during the Collapse, but I guess that this is one thing we'll never find out about for sure.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, first the part of the theory I have a problem with - the Ogier were definitely not created during the Age of Legends.  It says pretty clearly in The Guide that the Ogier are a natural species (unlike the Nym or the Trollocs).  Beside that point, though, I like some of the parallels between the Longing and taint on <i>saidin</i>.  It would be interesting if the Ogier have some kind of link to the Power which we have not truly seen yet...  I do not know if we will ever learn more about this, but it is certainly an interesting topic to discuss.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Lightfriends
body:
<p>Well, because everyone seems to think about the Lightfriends and who they are I started to think out a freaky theory to mock you, but after I read a special theory something inside of me snapped and everything fell into place.</p><p>The Lightfriends are the wolves. Preposterous you say? Well it is pretty abstract and probably not true but my reasons are:<ul><li>Every wolf will gladly throw his life away to kill a Fade, they hate the Trollocs and so on. Well it seems natural to me that the Lightfriends will hate the Shadowspawn.</li><li>The wolves can enter <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, but no other animal can. They live in the dreamworld when they die, and who else does? Right - the Heroes of the Horn. The Heroes all were great warriors against the Shadow, and so are the wolves.</li><li>They can sense when a human channels, either <i>saidar</i> or <i>saidin</i>, which suggests that they are connected to the True Source somehow. Well, the Forsaken has the True Power, so why can't the wolves have some kind of extra power? I only hope that all the wolf-friends (Perrin and Elyas) will learn to control that power, so they wont be such pansies anymore :-)</li></ul>I don´t know if you can sense the One Power when using the True Power but who says that the True Power must be exactly the same as the "light power"!</p><p>All people who are against the Shadow are the opposite of low Darkfriends, and the Power wielders are the opposite of Dreadlords. Perrin and Mat are the opposite of the Forsaken and Rand is the Light's Nae´blis.</p><p>Can it be more simple (or more freaky)?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think I have ever heard it suggested that the Wolves are the Lightfriends.  I do not know whether or not I agree, but no one can argue that they all hate the Shadow with a passion.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Proof of the Lightfriends' True Power?
body:
<p>Here is an interesting twist to the theory that both the Creator and the Dark One have their own True Power.  Do you remember reading in <i>The Eye of The World</i> that after the first use of the One Power that the person utilizing it will feel sick soon after?  Remember what Rand's first use of the Power was?  He rejuvenated Egwene's horse.  When they were fleeing from the Trollocs, remember.  It took Moraine an extremely long time to ascertain that Rand had done it, and she was looking for proof that one of the three was the Dragon Reborn.  Why did she miss that?  Could it be because (as evidenced later when Rand got so sick) that she was looking for the always resulting sickness as proof?  If she was, then why did Rand not get sick?  Because Rand is the Creator's solution to the plague of the Dark One.  He is able to channel the Creator's True Power, but only when it is not in any way attached to saving his own but, or killing.  This ties into the knowledge that we have of the Jenn Aiel (the Tinkers) in that even in defense of their own lives they will not harm someone.  Why?  Because they are the Creator's chosen people, and the song that they will find will be the song that allows all of humanity to become the Creator's chosen.  Remember from Rand's vision of the past (in Rhuidean) that the Jenn Aiel were respected because they would not do any violence.  Rand can only touch the Creator's True Power when he trying to help others, without harming anybody or trying to save himself from anything.  (The Way of the Leaf)  Therefore, Rand must not be concerned of saving himself when the Final Battle comes, but instead saving everyone else...  Who knows, maybe the Creator will have a little mercy on Rand, his chosen hand of justice.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I had to change my original response to this theory after reading a bit on the message board.  Pretty much, I just forgot a fact or two that REALLY changes my response to this theory.  You don't automatically get sick from first touching the One Power - and Rand got kind of light-headed and silly not long after he rejuvenated Bela.  Recall his encounter with the Whitecloaks not long after that?  Anyway, while I like the idea of Lightfriends I must point out the major problem with this theory...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Unaccounted Forsaken
body:
<p>There were, at one time, more than just 13 Forsaken. But they were killed in the War of Power.</p><p>In Chapter 25 of <i>A Crown of Swords</i> ("Mindtrap") on page 419 Moghedien was talking to Moridin of the True Power. saying "Only twenty-nine others have ever been granted--"</p><p>Let&rsquo;s do some math, shall we? Assuming all thirteen Dreadlords from the Trolloc Wars could touch the True Power, and taking in the thirteen Forsaken. That leaves three people unaccounted for. Even if you throw in the Dark One, that&rsquo;s still two others that could. Trying to say the Creator is another is pushing it, but that still leaves one other person. But my guess is that the DO and Creator aren&rsquo;t counted.</p><p>So, who are these ? And why does no one seem to care about them? If they were a part of the War of Power during the Age of Legends, isn&rsquo;t there some extremely fragmented record that mentions a Forsaken other than the common thirteen?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I am not sure where you found that there were only thirteen Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars.  I do not think Jordan ever stated an exact number, but I would guess there were a lot more than thirteen...  Just because someone could touch the True Power does not mean they were one of the Forsaken.  I think Moghedien&rsquo;s comment was just to point out that to touch the True Power is a rare privilege, handed out to only the Great Lord&rsquo;s most favored servants.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Where is Semirhage?
body:
<p>In the words of the immortal Dr. Evil, "Can someone throw me a friggin&rsquo; bone here?" Am I missing out on some basic common knowledge of the location of Semirhage? If not, why hasn&rsquo;t anybody brought this up before? I can&rsquo;t seem to piece together where in the world or Randland I should say Semirhage has made a nest for herself. I was scanning through <i>Lord of Chaos</i> and we get a small scrap of what Semirhage is up to from her point of view. Here&rsquo;s what I&rsquo;ve been able to piece together so far:<ul><li>On the bottom of page 143 of <i>Lord of Chaos</i> it is mentioned that if Semirhage killed the Aes Sedai she held captive before she could drain all useful knowledge out of her, she could just wait at her same location until another was captured.</li><li>At the end of another chapter in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> from Nynaeve&rsquo;s point of view, it is noted that there is a mysterious woman watching her from a second story window at Salidar. Note that this is before Aran&rsquo;gar shows up at Salidar.</li></ul>From the first clue it is reasonable to believe that wherever Semirhage is, it is either with Aes Sedai (i.e. The White Tower or Salidar) or at a very powerful position with any given nation that would have ambassadors from either the Tower or Salidar. That does not help much at all. But if we look at who the Aes Sedai that was captured is; more specifically what Ajah she is from; that seems to eliminate one of the options at least. On the bottom of page 433 in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> it is mentioned by Aran&rsquo;gar that Cabriana Mecandes is or was a Blue Aes Sedai. That she is Blue should eliminate the idea that Semirhage is hiding in the Tower simply because there are no Blues there at all. From all of this all I could possibly scrounge up is that Semirhage is either posing as a powerful noble from some country that has Aes Sedai advisors, or more likely is somehow manipulating the Salidar Aes Sedai - the reference of the mysterious woman watching from a window seems to back this up. Semirhage could be the one who beats up Sheriam in <i>The Path of Daggers</i> or could be posing as a major player in the Hall of Sitters, someone like Lelaine Sedai or Romanda Sedai perhaps. Tell me what you think.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have never put too much thought into this puzzle.  There are a lot of puzzles I have not been putting much thought into...  I took that to mean she would hide in her lair until another Aes Sedai was delivered to her - possibly by Mesaana or Aran&rsquo;gar or whoever.  I do not want to assume Semirhage is anywhere near any Aes Sedai.  It is certainly possible, though...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: More on Lanfear&rsquo;s Potential Repentance
body:
<p>As a hopeless Lanfear groupie (I think she is by far the most interesting woman in Randland, in every way, and far superior to any of Rand&rsquo;s current sweeties.), I&rsquo;d like to extend the discussion most recently added to by Nynaeve in her posting, "Lanfear turning back to the Light". wotmania comments that he "really likes the idea of Lanfear turning back to the Light" but "doesn't see how it is possible." I&rsquo;d like to take a crack at persuasion - since I&rsquo;m taking a crack at everything else ;).</p><p>In order to show how Lanfear&rsquo;s conversion could take place, we have to start with a delineation of the issue of what "possibility" means. In the simplest and barest sense, anything is possible so long as it is not logically contradictory. Thus, in the most basic sense, Lanfear&rsquo;s conversion is possible so long as she retains free will and can choose what she wants to do. But this is a very cheap explanation, and it would be an insult to wotmania&rsquo;s intelligence to simply force it on him, so I&rsquo;m going to go deeper, into questions of probability. Here, we have to consider the interests of all the players involved in our little drama, i.e. Lanfear, the other bad guys, the other good guys, and Rand.</p><p>As for Lanfear herself, it is fairly obvious that she is an extremely ambitious woman who signed on with the Shadow for her own power and glory - they offered her more. True, she does say somewhere that she serves only the Dark One, but this is probably only because she sees him as stronger than the Light&rsquo;s advocates. Remember that she once tried to get Rand to join her in using the two huge <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> to knock of both the Dark One and the Creator Himself. Her loyalty is clearly not that of a zealot. I think she could be persuaded to change her mind for several reasons: first, she is very ambitious, and the most basic ambition of all is to survive. Seeing as how she&rsquo;s most recently been nearly killed by Moiraine and has just gotten out of Finnland, and as how the Dark One has recycled her and put her on a short leash with a name that translates as "last chance," she may well conclude that the Shadow is more dangerous to her than the Light. Second, since her perrennial obsession is with power, she may also conclude that Rand can offer her more. Why? The difference lies in the distinction between actuality and potential. Suppose that we have two trees standing next to each other, a fully grown oak and a young redwood. Actually speaking, the oak is bigger than the redwood; but potentially speaking, the redwood is far bigger because it can grow to be much taller. An analogous situation exists between the Dark One and Rand. Currently, the Dark One is much stronger; but Rand has got those two big <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> - and one of them works for a woman; and Lanfear thinks she and Rand could overpower the Dark One with them. Thus, while the Dark One is currently best, Rand may well offer a better future. Thirdly, there&rsquo;s her obsession: she still wants the Dragon, even if her need for him doesn&rsquo;t fit conventional definitions of love. And even if she meant to be his superior originally, as Asmodean once told Rand, I doubt she&rsquo;d reject a chance to be his god-like equal with that big <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>. Besides, people do change - she was&rsquo;'t always evil; she doesn&rsquo;t always have to be out to dominate everybody - she could conceivably have a sort of Lady MacBeth-like loving partnership with Rand, and just want to rule everyone else.</p><p>As for the other baddies, all that really restricts her here is the mindtrap Moridin seems to have her caught in. The other Forsaken, Shaidar Haran, and such, sure as heck don&rsquo;t love her...she just needs to get clear of her dependence on the mindtrap (N.B.: the mindtrap gives Rand additional leverage if he can get his hands on it: he can offer to free her as a demonstration of goodwill; or he can threaten her with it- though that wouldn&rsquo;t make her a willing ally, and those are the best sort).</p><p>Then there&rsquo;s the other good guys. The biggest problem here is their acceptance of her into their ranks. It&rsquo;s true that no one can "walk so long in the Shadow that they cannot come into the Light" and it would be a little hypocritical for the good guys to tell Lanfear to go away if she came to them asking for asylum and promising aid; but they still might not want her. However, I think this is unlikely for two reasons: One, while she is an important figure in the Shadow hierarchy, most of her atrocities and such lie in the distant past. The real war between Rand and the Dark One, the "Second War of Power," if you will, hasn&rsquo;t started yet, and while lots of people may fear her, I doubt there are many who actively hate her and want revenge like there would have been back in the Age of Legends. Lastly, even if there was public hatred for Lanfear in Randland, there&rsquo;s no real reason for anyone but Rand to know who she is... she and the Dragon could just make up a false identity. The secret might even help to solidify their "working relationship" (or perhaps even make it more intimate...), since if they needed to keep it from everyone else they&rsquo;d both be in mutual danger from the same group - everybody else in Randland, evil and good alike.</p><p>Lastly, there&rsquo;s the Dragon himself. This is perhaps the biggest obstacle, since Rand, who has more than a few personal problems himself, has to really get his act together to make this work. But still, it&rsquo;s not impossible - it rests primarily on Rand having the imagination to grasp the potential public and personal benefits from having a minion who happens to be the hottest woman on the planet with a genius level intellect, great mystical powers that he can enhance to nearly god-like levels, an extremely passionate obsession with him and desire to be his honey, a drive for power that he can best satisfy, and increasingly fewer reasons to support his enemies. Rand really just needs to see the opportunity dangling before his eyes.</p><p>So, that, in short [or long ;)] is why I think it&rsquo;s possible for Lanfear to become a servant of the Dragon. Of course, the final objection to her conversion is that it might be due to purely personal ambitions and desires rather than sincere contrition, and that her motivation might still be due to ambition rather than goodness per se. But I still don&rsquo;t see how great ambition makes her any more evil than, say, Artur Hawkwing; he wanted to conquer the world too, and yet he&rsquo;s still a hero of the Horn Lanfear&rsquo;s real problem is not her ends, but her means - and she&rsquo;s shown us before that she can change those. Thanks for your consideration wotmania!!! This site is GREAT.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Seriously, and post which calls this site GREAT gets put in without a doubt...  This is a very interesting topic, one I am still not totally sure about.  I have a problem with Lanfear as a good guy - would you trust her?  I do not think I would...  But the idea of her posing as someone else (a wilder who came to Rand for instance) might work, especially since no one would recognize her as Cyndane.  That mindtrap presents quite an obstacle, though...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Who is Dashiva Really?
body:
<p>Dashiva is certainly not the dreamer that he appears to be, or at least, that&rsquo;s not all he is.  I believe that Dashiva is really Osan&rsquo;gar aka Aginor.  He has to be somewhere . I have several reasons for believing this is the case.  Dashiva speaks the Old Tongue fluently, he often plays with his face like Osan&rsquo;gar does (as he is unused to this new face), and he is prone to fits of giggling - just like Aginor after he escaped the Bore.  He is also very strong in the Power and is almost useless with a sword.  Aginor was never a soldier; he was a scientist.</p><p>Now, if Dashiva is Aginor, it is likely he has received orders similar to those of Demandred, not to attack Rand, but to "let the <i>Lord of Chaos</i> rule."  Perhaps he broke up the attack via compulsion, hoping to get control of the four Asha&rsquo;man before sending them back to Taim or some such thing.  Unfortunately, Rand spotted him.  He is furious with himself and Rand and lashes out before thinking.  Having been discovered, he has no choice but to flee and take the Asha&rsquo;man with him.  What do you think?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> One of my personal favorite theories, that Dashiva is really Osan&rsquo;gar.  I agree completely on this point.  It would make sense that Osan&rsquo;gar, like Demandred, is not to kill Rand.  If Osan&rsquo;gar messes up, I would certainly not want to be in his shoes...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Lanfear Turning Back to the Light
body:
<p>Lanfear has only shown herself to be strictly out for her own gains. She also seems to have had her own agenda.  She seems to be more interested in power than actually serving the Dark One.  However, what if when she fell through the ter&rsquo;angreal,  her link to the Dark One was severed?  If she&rsquo;s still alive, where would she turn as a means to regain her power? Perhaps she would see such an opportunity in turning back to the Light.  After all, in the Age of Legends some Forsaken turned from the Light for power, so why couldn&rsquo;t they turn back if they could make it serve their purpose? There is one thing that might loosely support this theory.  I&rsquo;ve read somewhere...  I don&rsquo;t remember which book though, something about that in order for Rand to win the Last Battle, he would need the assistance of a "woman long dead," otherwise he would fail. Perhaps in this case "dead" carries a symbolic meaning, as in a part of a person dying. This could mean the part that is now dead, in the case of Lanfear, this would be Mierin. If Lanfear turns back to the Light, wouldn&rsquo;t this part of her be born again? Thus the "woman long dead" aiding Rand in the Last Battle.  Perhaps in the beginning, Lanfear would turn back to the Light for her own selfish gain, but inadvertently her conversion would turn into a more sincere one, either by the effects of being near a ta&rsquo;veren, or by being forced to hold the Oath Rod, as has been suggested before. Although I can&rsquo;t picture Lanfear completely leaving behind her evil ways, perhaps the Pattern may draw enough goodness from her to help Rand.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I was thinking the prophecy referred to Moiraine, and it would sense when thinking of her.  I really like the idea of Lanfear turning back to the Light, I just do not see how it is possible...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Where is Ishamael?
body:
<p>There are several places that Ishamael could be right now - Moridin? Taim?  It seems fairly obvious he&rsquo;s back, as Aginor and Balthamel are as well (Osan&rsquo;gar and Aran&rsquo;gar), but what I want to know is if Ishamael really did escape the Bore earlier than the rest of the Foresaken, then what other plans did he set into motion that we aren&rsquo;t aware of?  The World of Robert Jordan&rsquo;s The Wheel of Time says he was free in 983 if not earlier (and that his capture by the Bore was only partial).  What if Ishamael was responsible for Mazrim Taim?  Taim had been channeling for fifteen years before he came to Rand, (which means he started in about 983-984). Another option is that he is Taim.  Lews Therin always goes crazy around Taim, screaming, "Kill him, kill him now."  Remember the beginning of <i>The Eye of the World</i>?  It was Ishamael that revealed to an insane Lews Therin what he had done.  Lews Therin had ample reason to hate Ishamael.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I certainly agree that Ishamael is back.  He has been the foremost servant of the Shadow for thousands of years; I think it likely the Great Lord would give him another shot at life.  If Ishamael is back, he is most likely Moridin.  As to whether or not he has a relationship with Taim...  That would be interesting - Taim has not been overcome by the taint because he is sworn to the Shadow.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Who is Osan'gar?
body:
<p>All right, everyone including myself is inclined to the belief that Dashiva is Osan'gar, but I'd like to throw this out there just because it is an interesting parallel.  Jahar Narishma could be Osan'gar. Narishma appears in the same book that Osan'gar appears (<i>Lord of Chaos</i>) and causes some excitement among the Asha'man because he has the "spark" which I would imagine Aginor/Osan'gar would have been born with.  Narishma at times acts a little odd; it is mentioned that he sees things at much more than face value, and understands some of the political intrigue that Rand is involved in.  The most telling point of this suggestion however is the fact that Narishma is Arafellin and one of the biggest clues to the identity of Osan'gar is that his body come from one of the Borderland nations - a group which Arafel happens to be a part of.  I thought I'd just throw that out there to cause a few waves. Tell me what you think.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> As far as I am concerned, any Asha'man who comes from the Borderlands might very well be Osan'gar.  I do not know if Aginor/Osan'gar was born with the spark or not - there is certainly no reason to assume all the Forsaken were born with it.  But Narishma has quite a few personality quirks - and I think Osan'gar would probably have a few quirks (being revived from the dead would tend to do that).  This might be the case - I look forward to Osan'gar revealing himself.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Where is Osan&rsquo;gar?
body:
<p>Where is Osan&rsquo;gar?  He has disappeared!  Many people are saying that Mazrim Taim is Demandred but has anyone considered that the M&rsquo;Hael is Osan&rsquo;gar?  They both appeared around the same time.  This is pure speculation, but where is the reborn Forsaken then?  Who exactly is Osan&rsquo;gar?</p><p>I suspect that Aran&rsquo;gar is probably Balthamel.  I am thinking that Osan&rsquo;gar is Ishamael, but this is based on that he is also Taim.</p><p>To finish off, is it possible that Ishamael has been reborn?  I don't believe he was killed by balefire in the Stone of Tear.  Perhaps he has been reborn as Moridin.</p><p>With respect as it is due, Riko.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> General consensus right now on the Internet seems to be that Aran&rsquo;gar is Balthamel and Osan&rsquo;gar is Aginor.  A sizable majority believe that Moridin is actually Ishamael, though this is a tougher question.  People are split as to whether or not Taim is Demandred.  Personally, my best guess right now is that if Osan&rsquo;gar is someone we have already met it is either Taim (less likely) or Dashiva (more likely).<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Graendal&rsquo;s Old Man
body:
<p>Somewhere in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> during a Pedron Niall point of view he mentions the fact that there are only five great generals alive in the world today: himself, Gareth Bryne, Lord Agelmar, Bashere, and a general (whose name I don't remember) from Arad Doman who hadn't been heard from in a while. I think it's odd that we have never heard of this general anywhere else. Somebody else should have mentioned him unless this was just one of Jordan's hints that there is still someone out there that we need to consider. (Man, Jordan is amazing. His hints are so subtle and he writes so that the smallest things he says help us pick his books apart. I don't think any author is more deserving of theory posts and the constant plot discussions that are out there than Jordan.) Anyway, I believe that the fifth general is Greandal's old man and possibly the old beggar from outside Carridin's place. It would account for him being a good swordsman. Him being one of the best generals in the world would also account for why Graendal would have a dirty old man hanging out at her place. I think it would be awesome if the guy outside Carridin's turned out to be this great general. Jordan left so many loose ends in Ebou Dar - I hope they all wind up getting together. First there is the old man, second is Carridin, third is Setalle Anan (we should definitely see her again), fourth is a menagerie outside of Ebou Dar (I wouldn't be surprised if it was Luca's troop), and of course fifth there is still Mat, Thom, Juilin, etc. I wonder if there's going to be more action around Ebou Dar in the next book, or at least a joining of some of these characters.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Book Nine should contain a lot of action in Ebou Dar, I would think.  And I had never really thought much about the great Domani general Niall mentioned...  You may be quite correct - and it would certainly be a great help to Graendal if she had a talented general up her sleeve.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Mesaana&rsquo;s Identity
body:
<p>I don't think many have yet noticed we have more clues to solve Mesaana's identity than Alviarin's observations (the finger thing, etc). In <i>Lord of Chaos</i> Egwene meets two unknown women in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod in the White Tower.</p><p>Stranger 1<ul><li>copper-skinned</li><li>willowy</li><li>Nynaeve's age</li><li>beautiful</li><li>thin dress</li></ul></p><p>Stranger 2<ul><li>sturdily pretty</li><li>purposeful stride</li><li>determined face</li><li>mutters to herself</li></ul>I think the first one is Semirhage and the second Mesaana. We know from the <i>Lord of Chaos</i> prologue she is a no-nonsense person. I haven't yet gone through all the possible subjects but I think at least Tarna (Elaida's emissary) had blue eyes. There are possibly others, but this should reduce the number of possible Mesaana&rsquo;s.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I hate to break it to you...  But Stranger 1 is Leane, Stranger 2 is Siuan.  We know for a fact that Siuan and Leane wander around Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod in their duties for the Salidar Aes Sedai, and I am pretty certain that is the true identity of these strangers.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Semirhage's Role
body:
<p>There is only one Forsaken left whose whereabouts have not been even vaguely identified.</p><p>We know (or think we do) that:<ul><li>Aginor = Osan'gar, who may = Dashiva</li><li>Asmodean = effectively balefired</li><li>Balthamel = Aran'gar = Halima</li><li>Be'lal = balefired</li><li>Demandred may = Taim</li><li>Graendal = Arad Doman "ruler," under Moridin</li><li>Ishamael = Moridin</li><li>Lanfear = Cyndane, under Moridin</li><li>Moghedien = Moridin's lapdog</li><li>Mesaana = White Tower power, possibly Danelle the "dreamy Brown"</li><li>Rahvin = balefired</li><li>Sammael = probably dead at Shadar Logoth, otherwise unknown.</li></ul>The only Forsaken that we have no bead on is Semirhage. I will now lay out my thoughts concerning Semirhage's whereabouts and activities.</p><p>CLUE #1: Demandred, Semirhage, and Mesaana work together. This we know from <i>Lord of Chaos</i>. Mesaana is known to be in the White Tower. Demandred is, we suspect, in the Black Tower. Logic suggests that Semirhage, wherever she is, will also be in command of a major channeling/military force. There are only two such forces left - Salidar and the Seanchan. Obviously, Semirhage is not in charge of Salidar; Egwene is. (Halima/Aran'gar/Balthameal is trying to worm her way into dealing with that, however.) Hence, it is my opinion that Semirhage is with the Seanchan invasion.</p><p>CLUE #2: The tension between the Seanchan, the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai would fit with the assertion that Demandred, Semirhage, and Mesaana all undercut each other, yet were never separable.</p><p>CLUE #3: Semirhage, we know, has a "willful charge." Who could this be? I submit that one possibility is the High Lady Suroth, leader of the Seanchan Hailene and a definitely willful person. Suroth, a known Darkfriend, seems to have a direct line to all sorts of information that she shouldn't have (the name Asha'man; knowledge that Traveling has been rediscovered, exact numbers, etc). This information could only have been hers through Darkfriend relays to the other side (i.e. Taimandred's cronies). I submit this is Suroth's Voice, Alwhin (a known channeler - at least, known to us; to the Seanchan, she's just a <i>sul'dam</i>.) This would explain why Liandrin and another woman recognizable as failed Black Ajah would show up under Suroth.</p><p>CLUE #4: "Demandred liked using proxies." Suroth, through Semirhage, is Demandred's proxy.</p><p>CLUE #5: Proximity to the Salidar Aes Sedai. I think it exceedingly likely that Semirhage is also Sheriam's torturer. Via Aran'gar, Semirhage can get the coordinates for the Salidar Aes Sedai camp and Travel or Skim there whenever. Popping out in a tent, she will not be noticed arriving. As for channeling, this is a camp filled with Aes Sedai; channeling will not be noticed. The modus operandi of Sheriam's torture (bound with the Power, immediately stripped using the Power, a "motherly" caress, the imitation of actual care, the condescending tone) absolutely scream Semirhage. (Compare with the torture of Cabriana Mecandes.) Therefore, Semirhage must be in a position where she must know about the Salidar Aes Sedai movements. Therefore, Semirhage is involved in a plot concerning the Aes Sedai. Add this to Clue #1, and it is certain that Semirhage is extracting information for the Mesaana/Demandred/Semirhage caucus to plan with. (Mesaana wouldn't do this herself; there's too much risk of being caught. Why not send the Numero Uno Information Extractor Extraordinaire to get your intelligence for you?)</p><p>CLUE #6: But why not just get the information from Aran'gar, who has about as much access and probably more chance to extract info from Egwene as Sheriam? Answer: Semirhage has no access to Aran'gar, who is working for Moridin, in a completely different conspiracy. More evidence that it is Semirhage that tortured Sheriam.</p><p>SUMMATION: It is my belief that Semirhage is riding with the Seanchan, either as Alwhin or as another member of Suroth's retinue. I believe that she is working with Demandred/Taim and Mesaana/Danelle to control and divide the various factions of channelers, with Mesaana in the White Tower, Demandred in the Black Tower, and Semirhage with the Seanchan. (Remember, Salidar did not exist until later, and was a possibly unintended side effect of a Black Ajah plot.) I also believe that, at Mesaana's request, Semirhage is performing extraction torture on Sheriam.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> What you are saying makes a lot of sense.  A lot of this theory fits together very well...  Hopefully in Winter's Heart we will learn a bit more about Semirhage - all the Forsaken are interesting characters, and we have yet to learn much of anything about Semirhage.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Danelle is an Airhead or Mesaana
body:
<p>In <i>The Shadow Rising</i> ("A Truth to a Viewing") Siuan is complaining that Danelle has let an extra 300 laborers in to build the new wing of the library. Danelle is described as dreamy even for a brown, WoT describes Mesaana along the same lines.</p><p>When Siuan is arrested these laborers attack the White Tower and are backed by Hammar and the Blue Warders and the split starts. This is obviously a set up, which begs the question why would Danelle allow these laborers in when she is on Elaida's side. Two reasons - she is a complete airhead and didn't notice the extra laborers or she is Black. Note Alviarin is the first to know of Elaida's intentions, so there is plenty of time to prepare. However Alviarin is a head honcho of the Black Ajah and knows all the Black sisters as she proves when she sent fifty non-Black sisters to the Black Tower, but she does not believe Danelle to be Black. Which leads me to believe that she is Mesaana...</p><p>Note in this passage Laras' suspicious behavior, she looks for Min when the fighting starts and threatens to lock her in her room, then Min tells of her intentions of helping Siuan escape and is surprised when Laras agrees to help. She is not sure how Laras got her to reveal this - Compulsion? Min has trouble opening the lock and the way Jordan has written this part it appears that Laras may have used the One Power. Could Laras be Semirhage with Siuan/Elaida her "willful female charge."</p><p>Other options for Semirhage would be "Alwhin with Suroth," "Aes Sedai with Tenobia," or "A Daughter with the Empress."</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> To be honest, it has been too long since I read this particular passage, and I really can not say what I think about Laras.  As for Mesaana, I think Danelle is certainly one of the prime suspects. I have a sneaky hunch we might find out who Mesaana is in the next book (or at least get a lot more clues) as they start figuring out who the Black sisters are in the White Tower...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Slip of the Tongue Reveals Dashiva as Osan'gar?
body:
<p>Ever since reading the theory that Dashiva is Osan'gar, I have thought and thought about it, and come to the conclusion that it does fit quite nicely.</p><p>First of all, the names Aran'gar and Osan'gar are the left and right hand daggers in a sport from the Age of Legends.  Most people know this, and the fact that both participants usually die because of the poison on the blades...  Left and right are mirror images of each other...  (I am a mirror twin, soI understand this well.)  We know Halima is Aran'gar, and is in the "True" or "Little" White Tower...  The mirroring would imply that Osan'gar is, indeed, at the Black Tower...  Remember Yin and Yang...</p><p>I don't have the evidence in front of me to support the face touching information, but other posts discuss this much better.</p><p>Next, I refer to the Chapter "A Time for Iron" in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.  On p531 of the paperback, things come to a head.  This is the encounter where Dashiva lectures Rand about the "weirdness" on <i>saidin</i>, and the dangers inherent in the situation.</p><p>Note Lews Therin's reaction to Dashiva weaving the ward.  He doesn't even snarl, he just grabs for the Power.  Is it possible that he "knows" Aginor's method of weaving?  As in, he recognized Aginor through Aginor's touch (???) or style of weaving?  Just grasping here, but it might be important... Same thing for Taim and Demandred, by the way...  sorry, wotmania...</p><p>Also note the point where Rand mentions that he has channeled longer than Dashiva.  Dashiva almost turns to ice, and snaps that he is "well aware" of how long Rand has been channeling.  Given that Rand's first MAJOR act of channeling was to face off against Aginor at the Eye of the World, that might be the rub...</p><p>The reason for the subject is the line:  "I don't like strange applied to <i>saidin</i>, and I don't want to die or... or be burned out because you're blind!" (<i>The Path of Daggers</i>, p531)</p><p>The interesting thing is the ellipsis.  Why would he hesitate?  It could be just emotion, or it could be emotion almost made him slip, and say "severed," or some other Age of Legends term for burning out, and reveal who he REALLY was...</p><p>That's my thoughts on the subject...  I was also reading around, and I noticed one possible hole.   Is there any mention anywhere on how good a healer Aginor was?  He was a biological scientist, so you think he would be pretty good, but Dashiva can't Heal anything...  But he may just be hiding his ability.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I really liked this theory until you threw in that comment about Taimandred.  <img src="images/smile.gif" /> Seriously, there are some very good points in here - I particularly like the comment that Dashiva is "well aware" of how long Rand has been channeling. I can see where Dashiva might take that the wrong way if he really is Osan'gar - Aginor just <i>might</i> be a bit bitter about being killed approximately four seconds after leaving the Bore...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Who Is Cyndane?
body:
<p>More question than theory really.  I wonder if anyone have a good theory about who Cyndane might be?</p><p>A resurrected Forsaken maybe?  Since Graendal can feel that Cyndane is stronger in the One Power than herself, Cyndane must be female (i.e. not Halima/Aran&rsquo;gar in disguise).  The only female Forsaken "killed" so far is Lanfear.  Lanfear was also the strongest female Forsaken which would fit this theory.</p><p>The only other theory I can think of would be that she is a "new entry" that we haven&rsquo;t heard of before.  I sincerely hope that this is not the case, to have new strong characters popping up in the books like that would be rather low of Robert Jordan.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You hit it on the head with your Lanfear idea.  That her name means "last chance" is another good clue.  I wonder if she is still obsessed with that Dragon guy...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Is it Possible for Rand to sway Cyndane/Lanfear Back to the Light?
body:
<p>This is going to sound far-fetched, but please bear with me, I think I&rsquo;m on to a real opportunity for Rand to get the upper hand in his struggles with the Dark One.  Assuming that, a.) Lanfear is not dead, and b.) she has been brought back as this "Cyndane" character, I see a real weakness in the Shadow&rsquo;s power structure that Rand could exploit.  Lanfear was never as committed to the Dark One as the other Forsaken were; yes, they all had their own agendas, but she seemed to be the only one who went along with the Dark One out of purely utilitarian motives.  She never seemed to have regarded the Shadow as anything other than a means to her own ends; with the other Forsaken it was much more a cause they were devoted to.  Given her unusual allegiance, and her passion for Lews Therin Telamon, I think Rand could have a good shot at convincing her to let him sever her link to the Dark One like he did to Asmodean and then bind her to him like the Asha&rsquo;man are doing to some Aes Sedai. She must already feel threatened by the Dark One - his new name for her means "last chance," after all, so he can&rsquo;t be pleased with her performance.  If Rand could offer her suitable incentives, like the use of that <i>ter&rsquo;angreal</i> he&rsquo;s got that links to the giant <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> statue that she was all excited about one time, and maybe a little personal affection, then I think a defection would be a serious possibility.  Of course, he could always just ambush her and force the arrangement on her like he did to Asmodean, but that would probably upset her.  Either way, this would be a near-perfect tactical move from Rand&rsquo;s perspective - he subverts a major enemy figure and turns her into a passionately devoted and extremely powerful ally who has no other choice but to fight for him or let herself face untold horrors at the hands of the enemy - those are the best kinds of allies, aren&rsquo;t they?  When you factor in the fact that she&rsquo;d be bonded to him, and that he could trust her to wield the ter&rsquo;angreal since she&rsquo;s screwed without his favor, I think her value and loyalty would be obvious.  If need be, Rand could also insist that his pet Aes Sedai use the Oath Rod on her; that would take care of all loyalty problems forever.  Now, I know this is all a little far-fetched, and there are some unresolved issues, like what Rand is going to tell Elayne, Min, and Aviendha if he decides to offer more intimate incentives to Lanfear, but all in all I think this is a good stratagem that&rsquo;s got an excellent shot of paying off big time for the good guys.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would never say something is impossible, but this is unlikely at best.  Lanfear is obsessed with the Dragon.  I do not think I would trust her with the huge <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>.  Who knows what she might decide to do with it?  In favor of your theory, though, you make a good point that Lanfear does typically seem to be operating on her own agenda.  At one point, though, I think she told one of the Forsaken that she serves the Great Lord of the Dark and no others...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Cyndane NOT Lanfear
body:
<p>In the theory "Is it Possible for Rand to sway Cyndane/Lanfear Back to the Light?" the writer assumes that Lanfear is Cyndane. I think that&rsquo;s way too crazy and just can&rsquo;t be. My own freaky theory is that Mesaana or Semirhage is Cyndane. They have failed the Dark One in someway, and are being punished for it. Perhaps for failure to capture Rand, Mesaana was turned over to Moridin? Perhaps Semirhage failed in some way as well? Anyway who ever she is, she just can&rsquo;t be Lanfear. If she is Lanfear where is Moiraine?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would think Jordan would have made it a scene if one of the Forsaken (Mesaana or Graendal) died.  I think Cyndane is Lanfear, everything we know about Lanfear and Cyndane would seem to lead one to that conclusion.  If Jordan starts killing Forsaken behind the scenes and resurrecting them I am going to be extremely disappointed.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Cyndane is NOT Lanfear
body:
<p>I honestly don't have a theory about who Cyndane is but she is not Lanfear.  Lanfear fell through the gateway with Moiraine.  If Lanfear has died and been resurrected, what happened to Moiraine?  Moiraine cannot be gone for good.  It's not like Jordan to take such a main character away from the story and not bring her back, without so much as a hint at her death.  She will either come back or we will somehow find out about her death.  If Moiraine is still destined to come back into the story, as I am sure she is, how Lanfear could have died?  I seriously doubt that someone being in the far off land that she and Moiraine ended up in could have killed a Forsaken (especially without Jordan saying something about it).</p><p>Falling through the gateway didn't kill either of them.  If the fall didn't kill them, I don't think anything else has.  The only possibility that Cyndane is Lanfear is if Moiraine killed Lanfear, Lanfear was resurrected, and Moiraine is still finding her way back.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have absolutely no problem with Cyndane being Lanfear, or Lanfear returning before Moiraine.  Lanfear, in my always humble opinion, could have pretty easily been killed in Finnland; recall that questions regarding the Shadow were considered dangerous in Finnland, and almost anything Lanfear could say or do would probably relate to the Shadow (she being a Forsaken and all...).  Cyndane's name and mannerisms definitely lead me to believe that she is Lanfear.  As for Moiraine, maybe she is just hanging out in Finnland for Thom to drop by and pull her out of the fire...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Another Cyndane Theory
body:
<p>First you might want to read the FAQ section about Cyndane. In short, it's  explained that she for sure is Lanfear, but it's not certain what caused her death and why weren't we observers of such a significant event. One option is that she died in Finnland and was resurrected by the Dark One, another is that the new body is a result of a wish (although it's not clear why she chose to abandon her "legendary looks"), and the last is that she died off-screen after her return to Randland. (This last option is described as incredibly lame.) I think none of this is correct - Cyndane is the real Lanfear, with changed looks, the same way as Moghedien was hidden in the Salidar Aes Sedai camp - it's possible to do that and tie the weave so that no one can sense the Power in you, nor can one  see the weaves.  I believe it was called an "inverted weave" or something like that.</p><p>But why?</p><p>Here's why. It's highly unlikely that Lanfear died in Finnland - if she was stilled she may have asked the Finns to heal her and bring her back, and this means that Moiraine was stilled too. (That is why the bond was severed - it was severed before the melting of the doorway). Lanfear had extremely good chances to survive the Finns - she was a One Power scientist in the Age of Legends after all, she must have known how to deal with them pretty well (better than Mat for sure).  It's pretty safe to assume that she returned from Finnland and went straight to Shayol Ghul (if she died, she must have been returned to Shayol Ghul as well). We know that she is currently mindtrapped, that's for sure.  The Dark One must have been really upset with her trying to kill Rand and plan things against the Dark one - she told Rand that with the statues they would have been able to defeat the Dark One. She was a really bad girl, she deserves what she got.</p><p>But why must she pose as Cyndane? This is something I yet have to think about. I think that's because the Dark One doesn't want anyone (and especially Rand) to know that he is capable of resurrecting people, and everyone knows that Lanfear is dead. She might be very useful that way, hiding in the shadows with Moghedien. Or it's to remind her that she's not Lanfear anymore, and therefore she shouldn't try to mess with Rand or plan against the Dark One. My most serious suggestion is that the Dark One doesn't want anybody to know that he can resurrect people - Forsaken will start messing around too much, the fear from death will be gone.</p><p>I may be wrong, but I don't think so.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Everyone knows how I hate to argue...  Well, not really - I love to argue (on either side of an issue, I just like to argue!)...  Anyway, I kind of like the idea of Cyndane not being Lanfear reborn - simply because Jordan has resurrected several Forsaken already, and I would be a much happier camper if that did not happen too much. But I kind of have a hard time imagining Lanfear in the land of the Finn and not ending up in serious trouble - I think someone (Moiraine?) said that questions related to the Shadow must be avoided while talking to the Finn or else you end up in trouble.  And could one of the Forsaken realistically avoid talking about the Shadow while in Finnland? I started this response with a point in mind, but I seem to have lost it.  So I will now be quiet before you all think less of me as a person...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Who Is Gaidal Cain?
body:
<p>I had been reading the different theories posted here and have enjoyed them greatly. All of you have active imaginations and read far too much (I like that in a person). My idea is about Gaidal Cain. I had read several ideas about him, some stating that he is Olver. I disagree, even if time is different in and out of the world of dreams the gap is still too big. I have just been rereading <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> and a thought occurred to me. I think we can all agree that Aviendha is pregnant with Rand&rsquo;s child (in Chapter 54 Amys says, "She has been more successful than you know...  I have waited for her to tell us, but since she will not - ") I took this passage to mean that she will bear Rand&rsquo;s child. Also Gaidal and Birgitte must meet sometime during their lives. Lastly Gaidal disappearance and the child&rsquo;s conception occur relatively close in time. To me all this adds up to Aviendha bearing a reincarnation of Gaidal Cain. What do you think?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I took that passage just to mean that Aviendha had slept with Rand, but your interpretation is equally plausible.  The one thing that really makes me think Olver is Gaidal is that Birgitte said he could even be a small boy at the moment, and Olver would certainly qualify as a young boy.  I am guessing we will find out before the series is over...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Is Olver Gaidal Cain?
body:
<p>I think it&rsquo;s entirely possible that Olver is Gaidal Cain reborn. Both are supposed to be ugly, and before Birgitte was ripped form the World of Dreams, she said she hadn&rsquo;t seen Cain in a while...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think this is pretty likely.  Birgitte certainly likes Olver, and he has the makings of a hero.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Yet Another Theory About Why Olver Is Gaidal Cain
body:
<p>I'm not going to mention all the evidence that proves, to me at least, that Olver is really Gaidal Cain. Most of it has already been mentioned in this site, after all. But one thing I did notice was that in <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, after meeting Birgitte, there was some animosity on Olver's part. Mat thought it was because Birgitte and Aviendha were friends, and Olver hated Aviendha because the Aiel killed his dad. However, I think there's another reason. Am I the only one who remembers a time in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> , when Birgitte told Nynaeve that Gaidal almost always hated her in the beginning? Combine that things like the fact that Olver always hangs around Mat (the Hornsounder), and Birgitte's deep feelings for the ugly boy, and there you go! Olver=Gaidal Cain.</p><p>I also want to say that I think this is a great site, and all of the posted theories are fascinating. I hope everyone keeps up the good work.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> A lot of people write to tell me the Theory Post is their favorite part of the site.  I know I love to work on the Theory Post - it is extremely fun reading others&rsquo; theories.  As for the theory - I cannot recall for certain a quote from Birgitte saying Gaidal usually disliked her at first.  But that could be because I have worked on the site way too much this weekend, and my brain is starting to fall apart on me.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Gaidal Cain is Olver
body:
<p>I have heard a lot said about this subject, and while I thought Olver was Gaidal Cain reborn, there was always the problem of age. But, I think I just found something that may explain how Olver can be Gaidal Cain. The theory has been stated that maybe Olver was killed during the battle, and Gaidal Cain's soul/spirit entered his body, but I had never heard any evidence that said this would be possible. I think this is some, from <i>The Eye of the World</i>, p278 paperback. Perrin is joking with Mat about how he called out the ancient warcry of Manetheren, and says maybe he is Aemon reborn, to which Thom replies (this is the important part): "That is dangerous talk. Stupid talk. The dead can be reborn, OR TAKE A LIVING BODY, (emphasis mine) and it is not something to speak of lightly." So, maybe Olver was on the brink of death, and Gaidal Cain's soul entered him and it was enough to re-ignite the spark in him...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmm...  This is certainly a reasonable piece of evidence.  We have evidence aplenty that little, insignificant conversations sometimes become important at a later point.  This little snippet from Thom could certainly be used to support the Olver is Gaidal reborn theory - or it could just be a foreshadowing of Aran&rsquo;gar and Osan&rsquo;gar.  Or maybe it does not have any real significance...  Ah, don&rsquo;t you just love WoT???<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Olver-Gaidal Cain
body:
<p>I think that Olver is Gaidal Cain, although my evidence has little to do with that put forward by Ashram.  Remeber when Birgitte was pulled from <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>?  Around that time, she was moaning about Gaidal Cain not being anywhere in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> that she could find - she theorised that he had been reborn, and that her time to be reborn was coming soon.  And then, after being ripped from <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, she was upset because Gaidal Cain always got himself into trouble - and she HAD to be there to save him from that trouble.</p><p>And then of course, we know that both Gaidal and Olver are incredibly ugly, which although isn't substantial in itself, just adds to the evidence.  Birgitte also mentioned that time runs differently in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> - although Gaidal was only missing from the World of Dreams for a short time, it's possibly that that amount of time was sufficient for him to be reborn, and to be several years old...</p><p>But then there is the issue of what purpose the Wheel would have for spinning out Gaidal, when he is only going to be a child for the events in this round of the War of Power - but then, the Wheel Weaves as the Wheel Wills....</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The problem with the sequence of events is not necessarily how long Birgitte was missing Olver, but more that Olver is about seven years old (from what we know) and the battle at Falme was definitely not seven years ago (at least not in WoT time!). But of course there is that quote from Thom about the dead taking over the bodies of the living...  I do not know for sure that Olver is Gaidal Cain, but it sure would be a fun plot twist!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Aes Sedai Lives Shortened by Oath Rod
body:
<p>The Oath Rod of the Aes Sedai has several functions, it would appear to me.  For one, it obviously binds them to the Three Oaths.  Whether or not this is a good thing is up for debate.  Second, in time it gives them the ageless look associated with Aes Sedai.  The Aes Sedai themselves do not recognize the third effect, that the Oath Rod is shortening their lives.</p><p>The Kin do not use the Oath Rod they possess.  They most likely do this because they do not want to gain the ageless look of Aes Sedai.  At the same time, though, they are living longer.</p><p>Here is an interesting thought...  What if the Oath Rod was initially instituted by the Black Ajah?  That would be an excellent way to diminish the number of Aes Sedai, as well as limiting their power in the world.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is an good theory, one with interesting implications.  The idea that the Oath Rod was instituted by the Black Ajah would put an interesting twist on things.  Will Egwene be the Amyrlin who discontinues the use of the Oath Rod?  That would allow the Aes Sedai to live longer and rise in power.  More importantly, it would make them earn respect and trust.  This would put things more in line with the Age of Legends, as that Age comes again.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Oath Rods
body:
<p>It&rsquo;s never really stated it right out, but isn&rsquo;t the Oath Rod one of the Rods of Dominion that Ishamael talks about to Lews Therin in the prologue of <i>The Eye of the World</i>?  Ishamael said, "Once you wore the ring of the Tamyrlin, and sat in the High Seat.  Once you summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion."  I don&rsquo;t know, but it seemed to me that those nine rods were very likely the oath rods.  But I must agree that the Oath Rod might shorten the Aes Sedai&rsquo;s lives.  If you will remember, at some point in time, one of the female Forsaken (I think it was Semirhage) talks about how she enjoys giving people pain, and that she was a great Healer in the Age of Legends.  Then she goes on to say that when she was a Healer, the others found out about her other activities, and that she could either be stilled or be bound to the Hall of the Servants or something like that.  It could very likely be, that being bound to the Hall was swearing an oath on the Oath Rod.  And if you have someone swear an oath to you on the Oath Rod, you have dominion over them.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The Oath Rod is certainly one of the Nine Rods of Dominion.  And it is almost certainly shortening the lives of Aes Sedai - being bound with one of these rods during the Age of Legends was a punishment.  And the Kin, who are not using their Oath Rod, live a great deal longer than any current Aes Sedai.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Re: Aes Sedai Lives Shortened by Oath Rod
body:
<p>I do not think that the Oath Rod gives the "Aes Sedai agelessness." Remember, when Egwene is asked who the oldest Accepted she saw at the White Tower was, she said a name and said also that she looked about twenty. But the "girl" was, in fact, eighty-some-odd years. This says that it is the One Power, not the Oath Rod, which causes the slowing. But the idea of the Black Ajah, though, has merit.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Has any channeler other than the current Aes Sedai ever been referred to as ageless-looking?  I cannot recall an instance where one of the Forsaken or Lews Therin was described with that ageless appearance.  What about the Wise Ones, or the Kin, or the Windfinders?  I cannot recall them being described as having that ageless appearance, but it might just be too late at night for me to think coherently.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Re: Aes Sedai Agelessness
body:
<p>I have read the other theories, and I find the reasoning lacking. If the Oath Rod was instituted by the Black Ajah, then since its members have bypassed the Three Oaths, do the get to live a lot more than the rest of the Aes Sedai? The same question goes for the theory that the Oath Rod merely shortens life.</p><p>Furthermore, we have not read yet an account of an Aes Sedai dying from natural causes, except from the Amyrlin foretelling the Dragon's rebirth - death caused by extreme stress?  So, there is room for speculation.</p><p>What if the agelessness is purely a self-construct image, i.e. the Aes Sedai subconsciously choose to freeze their age? This may be due to the way they are taught to handle the One Power, or an effort to stand above and beyond the rest of the world - Mr. Jordan has provided us with many examples of such an attitude. They use the One Power to freeze their age, or slow it down considerably. The Knitting Circle definitely do not wish to look like an Aes Sedai, therefore they lack the looks. This effort may have as a result a shortening of the life span - you cannot look great AND live forever!</p><p>Now, as to the actual length of their lives. We can assume that, from all the groups of One Power wielders, Aes Sedai lead the most dangerous lives, therefore they do not get the chance to grow old.</p><p>I find it somehow suspicious that we were not given a clue as to how Aes Sedai die from natural causes. Perhaps Mr. Jordan has an ace up his sleeve.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know for certain whether or not the Black Ajah instituted the Oath Rod (but I do think that would be a cool twist).  But I would be willing to bet that the Oath Rod does shorten the lives of Aes Sedai, and cause that ageless look - remember when Graendal mentions that the Aes Sedai of this Age bind themselves?  You might have a point that Aes Sedai lead the most dangerous lives out of any of the Power users in Randland, but I would say the Wise Ones are right up there, too...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Aes Sedai Agelessness and Long Life
body:
<p>Aes Sedai agelessness can not be related to the Oath Rod. Nynaeve was displaying signs of agelessness while she was a Wisdom. She has yet to take her oath. I am sure I read in one or more places her reflecting on how everyone thought she was younger than her real age. I am not discrediting the theory that agelessness is a response to a One Power wielder&rsquo;s own self image, but I dispute that it is caused by the Oath Rod.  As to life span, Sorilea is centuries old, but so is Cadsuane. Their long lives may again be attributed to there own self image - determined, confident people who believe to some extent they will survive forever.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is true that Nynaeve was often taken for her younger than her true age...  But maybe she just looks young?  None of the other groups of channelers (the Kin, the Windfinders, Wise Ones) have shown any sign of that ageless look.  As for the life span thing - Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends lived a long time, much longer than now.  That could simply be due to the fact that channelers now are not as strong as they were back then.  But I have a sneaky hunch both the ageless look and shorter life expectancy are due to the Oath Rod.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Aes Sedai Agelessness and Long Life
body:
<p>I'm replying to a previous theory submitted by nozz, and to wotmania's comments on it. nozz theorized that the Oath Rod has little or nothing to do with the Aes Sedai ageless look and long life, and wotmania disagreed, saying that the Oath Rod does have such a function, because the Kin, Windfinders, and Wise Ones don't have that same ageless Aes Sedai look. I would like to say that I don't think the Oath Rod has anything to do with ageless look thing. Remember that the seniormost among the Kin was over 600 years old, and while she didn't have the ageless look, she certainly didn't look old--Elayne and Nynaeve had the impression she had run away from the tower less than a century ago. Anyway, it's been demonstrated that the Kin, the Wise Ones, and the Windfinders do live very long lives because of their use of <i>saidar</i>, but only the Aes Sedai look ageless. I think that is because the Aes Sedai are the only ones who do a sort of formal training that takes years, with the novice gaining experience using <i>saidar</i> in many different ways. The Wise Ones and the Windfinders do train their novices, but not really in the same way--the Windfinders concentrate only on using the weather, and the Wise Ones have different focuses--some Wise Ones can't use <i>saidar</i> at all, and some, like Sorilea, have a very limited use of it. The Kin are afraid of being found out, so they try to use it as infrequently as possible. The Aes Sedai are the only ones who use <i>saidar</i> freely, all the time, and train specifically for its varied uses, and I believe that's where the ageless look comes from. I speculatethat Aviendha, for instance, might gain a touch of the ageless look from studying so much with Aes Sedai, even if she never touches the Oath Rod.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I am going to stick to the idea that it is the Oath Rod which gives the Aes Sedai their ageless look.  Here is something else I was thinking about this topic - I doubt anyone currently alive has used the Power as much as the Forsaken, and there is no sign of the ageless look among them.  Now this could be because they are covering it up, but there has been no mention of any of the Forsaken constantly masking their appearance.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Aes Sedai Agelessness
body:
<p>Not so much a theory as clearing up a small point. In <i>The Great Hunt</i> (Chapter 28) the Aiel Urien says to Verin, "Wise One, my water is yours." Verin asks him why he calls her that and his response is, "No, Wise One. But you have the look of those who have made the journey to Rhuidean and survived. The years do not touch the Wise Ones in the same way as other women, or as they touch men."</p><p>I felt it needed clearing up as some posts are overlooking this one piece of info when talking about Aes Sedai and the Oath Rod being the reason for their youthful appearance.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Good point.  Hmmmm...  Perhaps the Oath Rod just shortens the lives of those who swear the Three Oaths.  But I still wonder why the Forsaken do not have the ageless look.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Oath Rod Not the Key to Ageless Appearance
body:
<p>I've always wondered why it is that the Aes Sedai have the ageless appearance that doesn't seem to affect Wise Ones, the Kin, or the Windfinders. I thought on it long and hard until I found out about this website and I read the theory about the Oath Rod causing the agelessness. I thought this was the perfect answer since the Aes Sedai, post-breaking, don't really know what the intended purpose of any ter'angreal was and they might have been misusing it in some way that caused that side effect to develop with time. Happy with the answer I put the question out of my head. And then it happened and that theory was killed forever. While rereading <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> I came upon the disproving evidence. In Chapter 22 Egwene is taking the test to become Accepted. During the third test she is in a possible future where she is the Amyrlin Seat... The third test begins...  "Egwene stared into the standing mirror, and was not sure whether she was more surprised by THE AGELESS SMOOTHNESS of her face or the striped stole that hung around her neck. The stole of the Amyrlin Seat."  And later in that same test Egwene said to her Keeper "I never held the Oath Rod."  This unfortunately shows that the Oath Rod theory is false and another solution must be found.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Shoot...  This does sort of disprove that whole theory...  And there is a quote somewhere about Amys having young features despite her white hair...  But then why the heck do the Kin not get the ageless look?  Maybe they do not work with the Power enough, or something...  One of these days I will stop putting three period after so many of my sentences.  But not today...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Aes Sedai Agelessness, etc.
body:
<p>Well this isn't really much of a theory, just a kind of add-on thought to one of the newer theories that was posted on this topic. Um...  From memory the guy said something about one of the Aiel referring to Verin as a Wise One and when she asked him why him saying she has the look of one who has come from Rhuidean. Now if Wise Ones have a form of the ageless look as Aes Sedai do, it may have something (I'm probably way off here) to do with the Rings they pass through in Rhuidean, that the Aes Sedai also pass through in their test for Accepted. This would explain (as far as I've thought out) why the other channeling groups (Kin, Windfinders, Forsaken etc...) don't have the ageless look. Anyway that&rsquo;s it, as I said, not much of a theory but here it is anyway.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmm...  I was just wondering on the theory below what would explain the fact of only the Aes Sedai and the Wise Ones having the ageless look.  This would seem to do that pretty well...  Now here is another question - what about the Kin who have gone through one or two of the rings, but could not bring themselves to finish?  Would they get the look?  In any event, good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Aes Sedai Agelessness
body:
<p><i></i><i>A Crown of Swords</i>, p. 521 (paperback):<blockquote>"We slow, Nynaeve.  Somewhere between twenty and twenty-five, we begin aging more slowly.  How much depends on how strong we are, but when doesn't.  Any woman who can channel does it."</blockquote>This comes from Elayne talking to Nynaeve about the Circle in Ebou Dar.  According to this bit from White Tower classes, all women who can channel will slow in the aging process.  Now we must look at this on two levels.  The first is that it is correct.  Wise Ones are also said to age more slowly, and since many wise ones can channel, that would explain that. On the second hand, it's also said that Windfinders and the Forsaken do not gain this quality.  I, for one, have not noticed the Forsaken lacking the ageless quality. Lanfear for one was always described as the epitome of beauty.  Maybe they other ones are just naturally ugly?  Perhaps it has something to do with their link to the Dark One?  Maybe even an effect of the taint in the seals (if they were stuck in prison sealed by the heartstone, they could have easily been affected by the taint.  If it can weaken heartstone...)  The Windfinders, however, are another story.  It was said that the Windfinders do not want any Aes Sedai to learn that they can channel.  Perhaps the ones who can channel are replaced once they begin to take on an ageless look to prevent anyone boarding their ships to notice, and in turn let the Aes Sedai figure out their secret.  Just an idea...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> An Aes Sedai boarding a Sea Folk ship would be able to tell the Windfinder could channel even if the Windfinder did not have the ageless look - women who can channel can sense the ability in another woman.  And none of the Windfinders currently with Elayne and Nynaeve have been described as having that ageless look either...  I love this little puzzle, it is a tough one!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Oath Rod Isn't a Rod of Dominion
body:
<p>I have read a lot of posts that state the Oath Rod is one of the Nine Rods of Dominion.  I don't see this as true.  From what I have managed to put together the Oath Rod is what Age of Legends people called a "binder."  My reasons are:<ul><li>At one point in the story, either Semirhage or Graendal says, and I paraphrase, "they gave me a choice. Either severing and exile, or to be bound from my pleasures, and thus seeing the end of life approach."  This would also account for the Aes Sedai having shorter lives than non-bound channelers, and the noticeable difference in looks (the ageless look).</li><li>After Sammael and Graendal's meeting with Sevanna it is discussed that Sevanna wants a way to control women channelers. She refuses to teach them Compulsion, saying "one of those women wasn't negligible.  I won't risk strength and skill residing in her, or one she teaches."  The next idea brought up is, and again I paraphrase, "perhaps a binder could be found."</li><li>My final reason is, in the Age of Legends, what use would a Rod of Dominion be if it would only bind women as Sammael, who would know, claims?</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I always took it to be that the Nine Rods of Dominion were binders.  Lews Therin, as the Tamyrlin, controlled the Nine Rods of Dominion.  It would presumably be his responsibility (and probably others who helped lead the Aes Sedai) to bind those who misbehaved.  The Nine Rods of Dominion, or binders, were the punishment which rebellious Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends would have to face.  All told, I think those Nine Rods, the Oath Rod, and binders are all the same thing.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Oath Rods and Agelessness
body:
<p>I feel that the Oath Rods do cause the ageless look, but that just plain channeling causes the slowing. This is why only Aes Sedai are ageless, and everyone else that we run into for women channelers just look young. True, the members of the Kin don't look very young, but when one takes into consideration that they are between 400 to 600 years old (some of them anyway), they do seem to have slowed. Also, when Egwene stared into the mirror during her test, she could have been commenting that at that point she hadn't held the Oath Rod. The vision is obviously set in the future, so its not unrealistic to think she might yet take the Oaths. Further more, a few of the women that we see taking Oaths that talk about the experience talk about a tightening of their skin all over. Could this be a permanent face lift that causes the slowing to turn to an ageless look? I think so...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I am starting to think this might be the way things are...  I do not know about that facelift thing, but the rest I totally agree with.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Black Ajah and the Oath Rod
body:
<p>I believe that the Oath Rod causes the agelessness and Aes Sedai living shorter lives... (It seems quite clear, but with Jordan...  Maybe we are totally wrong...)</p><p>When Leane and Siuan were stilled, they lost their ageless look.  The Rod didn't hold them any more. But if you lose the ageless look when the Oath Rod isn't "working" any more, what about our Black Ajah?  They look just like Aes Sedai who are under the Oath Rod. How is that possible???</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would say it is because Siuan and Leane were stilled, and all the Black sisters wandering about were not stilled.  They simply swore a new set of oaths which replaced the Three Oaths.  If any of the Black sisters were to be stilled, I am sure they would lose the ageless look as well.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Ageless Look
body:
<p>The problem with the refutation that was posted from Egwene's test to become Accepted is that before the test candidates are told  they are facing their deepest fears, meaning that the images from the test come from within themselves.  To prove this, Beldeine was stilled but still retained the ageless look (hence, Egwene as Amyrlin did not know she was stilled by looking at her).   We know from seeing Siuan and Leane after they are stilled, that the ageless look left them as soon as they were stilled.  Since Egwene did not know this at the time of her test for Acceptance, the stilled Aes Sedai in her "vision" did not reflect this truth.</p><p>In my opinion, it is still the Oath Rod that causes the ageless look.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is a very good point.  It is difficult to take a lot of evidence from Egwene's experience in the testing ter'angreal, since her experience there seems to be affected by her perception of reality...  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Agelessness and the Oath Rod
body:
<p>1.) The Look and the Rod</p><p>I think that Aan'Allein is right when he says there are two ageless looks.  The first is that somebody simply looks younger than their years (e.g. Nynaeve or any of the Kin); the second is the Aes Sedai smoothness/agelessness where it is nearly impossible to put an age on someone. Perrin describes the Tower Aes Sedai who were captured,: "The others looked ageless, of course, maybe in their twenties, maybe in their forties, changing from one glance to the next, always uncertain. That was what their faces said, though several showed gray in their hair." [ACOS: 1, High Chasaline, 60]  This doesn't include those who were stilled.  So the difference is that when looking at someone who can channel, but who isn't a full Aes Sedai, you can put an age to them but you might be years off, whereas with a full Aes Sedai it is just impossible to put an age to them at all.</p><p>Why I think this is caused by the Oath Rod has four main sources, two from <i>The Path of Daggers</i> and two from <i>New Spring</i>.  Firstly, there is the description of Galina swearing on Sevanna's Oath Rod.  She had hoped that it wasn't a real Oath Rod and that she will not have to keep her word, but she realizes from the feel of it that it is.<blockquote>"Galina felt the oath settle on her, as if she suddenly wore a garment that covered her far too tightly from her scalp to the soles of her feet.... it suddenly seemed as if the burning of her skin was being pressed deep into her flesh..."  [TPOD, 11, Questions and an Oath, 256].</blockquote>She feels the Oath all over, it affects her skin, making it seems to burn into her bones.</p><p>Secondly, there is the scene in the depths of the White Tower, where Seaine retakes the Three Oaths and states that she is not Black Ajah.<blockquote>"Seaine retook the Oaths in turn, each producing a slight momentary pressure everywhere from her scalp to the soles of her feet. In truth, the pressure was difficult to detect at all, with her skin still feeling too tight from retaking the Oath against speaking a lie.  [TPOD, 26, The Extra Bit, 504]</blockquote>This is even clearer - taking the oath against lying made her skin feel tight - if swearing on the Oath Rod can tighten the skin (kind of like a face lift), wouldn't it give the Aes Sedai smoothness of cheek that Jordan keeps describing?</p><p>Thirdly, in <i>New Spring</i> , a newly raised Moiraine describes how she felt, having taken the Oaths so recently:<blockquote>"The Three Oaths still made her skin feel too tight." [NS, 653]</blockquote>She too felt her skin tighten, and it made her feel uncomfortable.</p><p>All of these could be countered with the fact that Aes Sedai just look younger anyway, and that the tight feeling is just that, a feeling not a fact, that their skin doesn't really shrink they just feel like it does.  But in <i>New Spring</i>, there's definite proof that the Oath does really tighten the skin.</p><p>Merean (an Aes Sedai senior to Moiraine) described how Moiraine and Siuan Sanche were punished the night before they were raised, for putting mice in Elaida's bed.  She is making a joke at Moiraine's expense, after all, being spanked isn't the best way of creating the intimidating image that all Aes Sedai have (!).  Anyway, she says:<blockquote>"I doubt any other women have been raised Aes Sedai while still too tender to sit from their last visit to the Mistress of Novices. Once the Three Oaths tightened on them, they needed cushions a week." [NS, 662-663]</blockquote>So the Oaths definitely do in fact physically tighten the skin of the swearer - it's not just an impression they get when it happens.</p><p>Also, when a person is stilled, the Oath is broken, as is its tightening effect upon the skin.  This happens to the Black Ajah, too (someone else posted about its effects upon them).  Anyway, when Amico was stilled Aviendha comments upon her appearance and the text says:<blockquote>"Amico looked young, perhaps younger than her years, but it was not quite the agelessness of Aes Sedai who had worked years with the One Power. 'You have sharp eyes, Aviendha, but I don't know if this has anything to do with stilling. It must, though, I suppose. I don't know what else could cause it.'" [TSR: 5, Questioners, 84].</blockquote>The same happened, but more dramatically, to Siuan and Leane - when they returned to Salidar the other Aes Sedai didn't recognize them.</p><p>Therefore it is the Oath Rod, and the effects of the Oaths settling into the very being of the person that cause the Aes Sedai Ageless look.</p><p>2.) The Rod and Death</p><p>The Oath Rod does shorten the life span of the swearer.  The main evidence for this that I've found are in the thoughts of two Forsaken - Semirhage and Sammael.</p><p>Sammael asks Graendal if the channelers in Shara "bind themselves like criminals" [LOC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 136].  Graendal isn't surprised - she has heard that the Aes Sedai of this Age bind themselves from Mesaana [LoC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 138] and the only type of bond that the Aes Sedai take on willingly that was known about in the Age of Legends would have been to be bound by the Oath Rod - the only other bond they willingly take on being one to a Warder and this was not known about in the Age of Legends.  Anyway, with crime being so uncommon and against the community, it's likely that criminals, while not condemned to death, would be punished not only with the above, but with a reduced lifetime.</p><p>The Guide expands upon the theme of binding criminals.  It says that "When the perpetrators of violent acts were caught, they were not sent to prison. Rather, they were constrained... against repeat offenses. This binding made it impossible for the criminal ever to repeat his crime." [Guide: 3, The Age of Legends, 37].  It is likely that this would also mark the person as a criminal, so that all would know (i.e. the Aes Sedai Ageless look).</p><p>The thoughts of Semirhage are conclusive that being bound shortens life span.  When she is torturing Cabriana Mecandes she thinks about why she turned to the Shadow once the Hall of Servants learned that she was a sadist.  They offered her two choices "to be bound never to know her pleasures again, and with that binding be able to see the end of life approach."  [LoC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 139-143].  The last sentence proves that binding (i.e. swearing on what Sammael calls a binding rod, the same as what Galina calls an Oath Rod) does shorten the life span of a channeler.  In the Age of Legends people lived to a great age, and channelers longer than anyone else.  (This is explained by Elayne: "We slow, Nynaeve. Somewhere between twenty and twenty-five, we begin aging more slowly. How much depends on how strong we are, but when doesn't. Any woman who can channel does it."  That quote is taken from Packer W-Quai's post Aes Sedai Agelessness).  So it is swearing on the Oath Rod that will make Semirhage's death approach, not anything else that could be done to her.</p><p>That's just about all I have to say (sorry this is such a long post) except that all this also proves that the oath Rod is NOT one of the Nine Rods of Dominion.  Sammael calls the one he gives Sevanna a binder, and Galina accepts it as an Oath Rod.  If anyone would know what one of the Rods of Dominions looked like, it would be one of the Forsaken, and it just doesn't wash that Sammael especially wouldn't recognize it - he was friends with Lews Therin after all.  Also we find out that binders are numbered.  The Tower's Rod is number three, while Sevanna's Rod is number one hundred and eleven [TPOD, 11, Questions and an Oath, 253]. Seeing as there are way more than nine, it's not likely that the Tower Oath Rod is one of the Nine Rods of Dominion.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, nice theory!  Well, we certainly know that facelifts can make it hard to pin an age to someone (how old is Dick Clark???).  I really like this theory, and agree with more or less everything in it.  After some long hard thinking on the beach in Florida (or a quick change of heart while reading this theory...), I have come around to the argument that the Oath Rod(s) we have seen are binders, and not two examples of the Nine Rods of Dominion.  That is really all I have to say - this theory says everything itself.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Maybe Not...
body:
<p>I'm not really sure if this is a theory or not, but I will write this anyway. I have heard just about all the arguments about the Oath Rod and the ageless look that the Aes Sedai have. From what I've read everybody seems to be equally divided on the topic. I myself used to believe that the look was caused by the Oath Rod, but now I don't believe that at all and here's why. I was reading <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> and while reading the prologue on p. 18 of the paperback it states one of Elaida's thoughts. The paragraph goes like this:<blockquote>A few women shook their heads - there was no news, and Javindhra said, "A Red sister is in place in the Royal Palace. Newly raised, so she can easily pass for other than Aes Sedai." She meant that the woman had not yet taken on the agelessness that came with long use of the Power.</blockquote>Now this statement, in my opinion, tells exactly where the ageless look comes from. It clearly states that the look comes from use of the power, not the Oath Rod.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This could be taken as proof that it is really channeling which causes the ageless look.  Or it could just be another case of Aes Sedai misunderstanding the Oath Rod...  Obviously Aes Sedai do not suspect the Oath Rod shortens their lives, and I think that is a pretty solid fact at this point.  Also, keep in mind that at this point the Aes Sedai have no real contact with Wise Ones or Windfinders (who channel a lot, but do not have the same ageless look as the Aes Sedai).<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Thinking Outside the Box
body:
<p>Some of you people believe that the numbers on the rods mean that is the number where the rod is placed in the Nine Rods of Dominion. The number could stand for something else like how many years the user&rsquo;s life span is reduced, the number of years it took to make it, or number of people it took to create it. Also how do we know what the Nine Rods of Dominion are all Oath Rods? What about the rod that the Black Ajah used that shoots balefire? It could be a Rod of Dominion. The Oath Rod in the White Tower I think is one of the Nine Rods of Dominion because it has a low number, three I think, and the one that Sevanna has is a binder, which is why Sammael didn't keep it. One last thing to back up the claim that the Nine Rods of Dominion are not all Oath Rods is that in the prologue of <i>The Eye of the World</i> Ishamael says to Lews Therin, "Once you summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion."  The proof is this - Why would they make nine Oath Rods?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmm...  I think it is a pretty solid bet the Oath Rod of the Aes Sedai reduces their life spans by more than three years, so I doubt the number on the side of the rod indicates how many years it shaves off the user&rsquo;s life.  And Galina sure thinks Sevanna&rsquo;s rod is just like the Oath Rod of the Aes Sedai.  I do not really know how relevant my comments are to this theory, but it has been a long week and I think my brain is about to shut down...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Quote About the Wise Ones
body:
<p>Wow, aren't we all just picking and choosing our proof.  I personally don't believe that the Oath Rod causes the agelessness.  Check the spot where Rand and Mat are attacked by Couladin coming out of Rhuidean.  When the Wise Ones channel at him the book says, and this isn't an exact quote, "Now Rand saw the Wise Ones&rsquo; youthful features for what they really were - Aes Sedai agelessness."  That would indicate that the Wise Ones do have the Aes Sedai look, the opposite of which seems pivotal to a lot of arguments.  And I think that the Forsaken aren't affected by this in the same way that the male Forsaken aren't affected by the taint.  They come from an Age more advanced in the Power.  They can do things, like avoid agelessness.  I also don't agree with with the "Tightening Skin" theory.  I think that Leane and Siuan changed because they were free from the Power, not from the Oaths.  I also believe that the Oath Rod is a Rod of Dominion.  I think that there was, in the Age of Legends, some sort of Aes Sedai parliament.  The parliament members would hold special Rods (of Dominion) that would insure that they would keep the promises they made.  To "Summon the Rods of Dominion" means, I believe, to call the parliament together, something only a very important man/woman could do.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know if I agree with that whole parliament idea, but you bring up an interesting point with that quote about the Wise One channeling.  Hmmmmm...  I am not exactly sure what to say, except to mention that I am going to have to pay more attention to the appearance of channelers my next time through the series...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Oath Rod Does Not Cause Agelessness
body:
<p>I have been reading some of the theories about the Oath Rod and aging and the smooth, ageless look Aes Sedai have, and do not believe that the Oath Rod causes the ageless look.  We have proof from Rand's trip to Rhuidean.  We know that Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends did not bind themselves to Oath Rods (indeed, if "binders" were a punishment they would never do so willingly).  Yet when Rand was in Rhuidean he saw Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends, through the eyes of his ancestors, and they had that ageless look to them.  Therefore the Oath Rod cannot be the cause of the ageless look.</p><p>Now, the Oath Rod might cause a shortening of life, but I don't think so.  The only group we know of who live much longer than Aes Sedai are the Kin.  We have no idea how long Windfinders live.  We have little reason to believe that Wise Ones who can channel live any longer than Aes Sedai, and if they do it can be attributed to the fact that Wise Ones are never in physical danger because it is forbidden for an Aiel to harm a Wise One. The only reason for a Wise One to die would be famine or old age or punishment.</p><p>I think that it is more likely that the Kin simply lead very unobtrusive lives and stay out of everybody's way, thus they live longer.</p><p>As far as the Forsaken go, they are a special case because they have been granted immortality by the Dark One.  As such, neither the aging nor the smooth ageless look issues apply to them.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Yet another interesting fact tossed into this argument.  I am really enjoying all the evidence people are bringing to this particular issue.  None of the Wise Ones or Windfinders that I can recall have ever really talked about how old they are.  Perhaps they live longer than we realize?  Maybe in Winter&rsquo;s Heart Sorilea will have a birthday and Jordan might mention the number of candles on her cake.  Or maybe not...  Anyway, nice piece of evidence - every little bit should help clear up this question (or just cause more arguing!).<br /></p><p><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Oath Rod IS One of the Nine Rods of Dominion
body:
<p>First off, I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with every point in Annie's theory, but I'd like to explain  why I believe the Oath Rod, the "binder" that Sevanna uses on Galina, and even the rod that produces balefire are ALL members of the "Nine Rods of Dominion family."  First a little disclaimer:  I'm not one hundred percent sure on this, and I don't have much in the way of supporting evidence.  It's just kind of a hunch, but it's the only one that makes sense to me.  Anyway, I was thinking, what if the Nine Rods of Dominion aren't just nine rods?  What if there are many rods out there, maybe hundreds, that have nine different functions?  That would explain why the Tower's Oath Rod seems to have the same effect as the "binder" that Sevanna uses on Galina.  I'm too lazy to get the exact quotes or pages, but doesn't it seem that the way Sammael and the other Forsaken who mention "binders" always seem to refer to them as there being more than one binding rod?  They wouldn't refer to them so casually, as simply "binders" if there were only one or two out there.  I think "binders"  were just the most commonly used Rod, so there are probably many binding rods floating around out there, probably with many different numerals on them.  Maybe that's why Sevanna&rsquo;s rod says "111" on it...  There were probably hundreds made in the Age of Legends.   Or maybe all binders have the number three on them, but Sevanna&rsquo;s was made back when they used, for lack of a better term, "Roman" numerals?  My main point is, there are countless Rods out there, many "binding" rods (which the Tower's Oath Rod is one of) but of all the Rods, there are only nine different functions.  I know there isn't a lot of evidence to support this, but as far as I can tell, there isn't any disproving evidence either, and it makes a lot of sense to me.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You are certainly correct at the end of your theory - there is not much in the books to support your theory.  But you are also correct that there is no real evidence to disprove your theory.  I would have to wonder what the other eight functions would be...  Maybe one to use on men which would force them to always put the toilet seat down?  Or one to use on women which would make them give up sniffing?  Anyway, it certainly is an interesting possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Maybe If...
body:
<p>I tend to agree with the theory that the Oath Rod is reducing the life span of the Aes Sedai.  At the moment, it makes sense.  Here's a thought... Why don't the Aes Sedai make a man swear on the Oath Rod instead of gentling them?</p><p>In order to explain my theory I'll refer to <i>The Path of Daggers</i> (Chapter 11,p256-257). Sevanna forces Galina to swear on a rod very much like the Oath Rod in the Tower.  After she swears, Therava commands her to obey her and Sevanna, and also not to touch <i>saidar</i> without her permission.  She can't channel even if she wants to, without the Shaido Wise One's permission.<blockquote>"The shield vanished, and Galina knelt there, staring hollowly.  The Source shone just out of sight, tantalizing.  And she could have sprouted wings as easily as she could stretch out for it."</blockquote>Where I'm going with this is if an Oath Rod could prevent Galina from channeling, it could prevent men from channeling as well.  Simple, easy, and less painful.  The men wouldn't die from the after effects of gentling.  But there are a few holes I know.  Does the Oath Rod work for men (I not too sure on that one), and would they die of the wasting sickness that accompanies male channelers?  Just a thought...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is definitely an interesting idea. Sometimes I get a theory like this and wonder why I (or all the people in Randland) didn't think of that. I would assume the Oath Rod works on men, too.  If so, having men swear on the Oath Rod would make a lot more sense - they would not die, and maybe the Aes Sedai would not have managed to breed the channeling ability out of mankind.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Agelessness and the Kin
body:
<p>In regards to the discussion about the Kin's lack of ageless features, I'll re-quote Elayne from <i>A Crown of Swords</i> (emphasis added):<blockquote>"We slow, Nynaeve. Somewhere between twenty and twenty-five, we begin aging more slowly. <i>How much depends on how strong we are</i>, but when doesn't. Any woman who can channel does it."</blockquote>Assuming that this is true, then it fits that the Kin would display less of an effect.  Being runaways, cast-outs, and other untrained women of the Tower, many of the Kin could very likely be weaker in the Power than most full Aes Sedai - and this could very well be the reason that they left or were expelled in the first place.  As others have already noted, the Kin must show some sort of preservation since they are so ancient.  The above quote mentions "slowing," not actual agelessness, which leaves the source of the physical "smoothing" left up to discussion.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Two things about this theory, if I am reading it correctly...  First, not all Kin are weak - I remember one (cannot remember which one off the top of my head, though) saying she failed the test for Accepted because she could not face her fears.  So she could have been very strong in the Power (as some Kin certainly are), she just did not have the psychological strength to be Aes Sedai.  Second, if it is the case that stronger women age more slowly, why is it the Kin live longer than the average Aes Sedai?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: His Blood On the Rocks...
body:
<p>This is pre <i>The Path of Daggers</i> cause I haven&rsquo;t read it yet, but it might work after.  Now we all know prophecy "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, the price that must be paid," etc.  Now everybody thinks that means Rand dies or else suffers from serious injury, but what if it is not him, but Galad?  His blood, they&rsquo;re half brothers.  Now from <i>The Eye of the World</i> Elayne, everybody says he does what is right.  Now what could be more right than giving your life to save the world?  Not to mention Elayne who feels he must protect, Egwene whom he loves, and whatever men serve under him at that point in time.  Now Whitecloaks feel the use of the One Power is evil, but Galad is more old school, it&rsquo;s just Darkfriends he hunts, so even if he feels Rand is a threat he will believe that he must help him fight the Dark One.  It would be ironic if one of the last scenes is Egwene and Elayne crying for Galad who they despise and Rand crying for the brother he never knew.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would not count on that ending if I were you...  It is true that Galad does whatever is right, but I think it will definitely be Rand&rsquo;s very own blood that gets spilled at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  I think he is going to die, too, but not be dead for good.  That is a theory for another time, though...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Spilt Blood
body:
<p>Everyone (including the characters in the books) seems to assume that the prophecy "his blood on the rocks of Shayoul Ghul, the price that must be paid" means that Rand will die.  That is not the exact meaning.  I see this prophecy as saying that Rand will be bled and a price will be paid.  It does not say that he will die.  Perhaps in defeating the Dark One Rand ends up being trapped in the Dark One's prison.  Seems like a pretty hard price to me.</p><p>Of course, this theory is completely shot by the fact that Egwene dreams Rand will die, and Min foresees it with her talent. But as always, these are very cryptic and could mean something else.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Rand is not going to die after fighting Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  He might bleed, but he will not die.  At least not for good...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: WoT As a Modern World?
body:
<p>My theory is that the happenings in the series are leading up to the world to become like the modern world. If you remember in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> how at that school in Cairhien one person had an idea for a plow drawn by horses, and another for a device to look at the stars, ways to pave roads, a printing press, and a way to get water when the wells were going dry.  If I remember correctly sometime after the Dark Ages (umm.. I don&rsquo;t remember exactly how long though) the first real telescope was invented so...  And I know that the printing press was invented when Martin Luther was alive (in the 1500s wasn't it??) and that&rsquo;s why the reformation was successful.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The Wheel is slowly swinging around again.  Look at the Age of Legends, for instance.  They had (essentially) cars, planes, electricity and everything else we have now.  But the use of the Power allowed all these technologies to be virtually pollution-free.  As the Wheel turns, new technologies emerge.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Last Time Around
body:
<p>Just a thought that occurred to me, seeing the discussion of the taint of <i>saidin</i>.... There are many times when the Dark One says that this time around is different, that (he thinks) the Shadow will win for good this time. However, when Rand goes through the Portal Stones and hits the alternate realities, he hears, not "I win, Lews Therin," but instead, "I win again, Lews Therin." The Wheel of Time is described as being driven by the One Power. In order to prevent the cycle from recurring, is it possible that Rand will, rather than cleansing the True Source, eliminate it? This would make the end result of Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don (which, hopefully would already have happened by this point) a permanent effect. Or, perhaps his means of winning Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don could be to eliminate the True Power? If the taint on <i>saidin</i> is a massive weave of the True Power, couldn&rsquo;t it be eliminated by removing the source of True Power? Just a thought.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know what to think of this topic...  What if Rand wins Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, and it really is the LAST battle?  Will I be bummed?  I am not so sure.  But I think one possible ending for The Wheel of Time would be the elimination of the One Power.  Time rolls forward never to come around again...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Last Battle Outcome...
body:
<p>Okay, first of all I finally have a theory with something to back it up (yay!) in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> (Chapter 14, p. 353) a novice by the name of Nicola is taken by the Foretelling during her first linking.  This is what she says...<blockquote>"the lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. three in the boat and he who is dead yet lives. the great battle done, but the world not done with battle. the land divided by the return and the guardians balance the servants. the future teeters on the edge of a blade."</blockquote>This is of course how I interpret it...<ul><li>the lion sword=Elayne</li><li>the dedicated spear=Aviendha</li><li>she who sees beyond=Min</li><li>he who is dead=Lews Therin</li><li>yet lives=Lews Therin&rsquo;s soul reborn, or Rand living</li><li>the great battle done=Rand finished the fight with the Dark One</li><li>the world not done with battle=Shadowspawn are being hunted and killed</li><li>the land divided by the return=Rand conquers the Seanchan and in return for their help, he gives them most of the land they wanted anyway.</li><li>the guardians balance the servants=this one is kinda weird to follow...  If Taim is the one who does this he really gets to working...Asha&rsquo;man means guardian in the Old Tongue and Aes Sedai means servant in the Old Tongue, so the Asha&rsquo;man are in equal numbers or enough to equal the Aes Sedai in power, which should be tough because if Egwene wins the fight, then the White Tower will have over 3000 female channelers on their side..</li></ul>Also, I believe that Gaidal Cain is Rand&rsquo;s son. In <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> (Chapter 54, p. 908) they are speaking of Aviendha finding a way to control Rand. They tell her that she has been unsuccessful, yet Amys says she has been more successful than they realize. She also says that she wondered why Aviendha hasn&rsquo;t told them yet; Amys was about to tell them that Aviendha was pregnant, but she saw Rand near by and shut up. I think that since this is about the time when Birgitte says she can&rsquo;t find Gaidal, this is what happened..</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I certainly agree with the first part of the theory.  As for the second part...  I think Amys just means Aviendha was successful in sleeping with Rand.  When Birgitte said she had not seen Gaidal in a while, she said he would be either an infant or a small boy - she never said he may not have been born yet.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Last Battle
body:
<p>I have only gotten to <i>Lord of Chaos</i> so there are many things I don&rsquo;t know but I think I have figured out what will happen in the Last Battle. I was thinking about balefire and what it does. The Dark One is a thread in the Pattern so balefire would destroy him. If Rand hit him with an incredibly strong stream of it he could eliminate The Dark One all the way back to before the taint was put on <i>saidin</i>. This would make it so that the original Breaking of the World never happened which would cause the world to revert back the way it was causing a whole new Breaking in itself - this would fulfill the prophecy. Even the Aiel prophecy would be fulfilled because the Waste would be destroyed and there way of life would be gone.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> If Jordan ends the series in this manner I will be extremely surprised, and disappointed as well.  I do not think this would work, though...  If Rand blasts him with such a large weave of balefire the world is never broken, the Aiel&rsquo;s ancestors do not wander the earth, they do not meet the Cairhienin, they do not give the tree to the Cairhienin, there is no Aiel War, and Rand is never born...  Then who would be around in the future to balefire the Dark One?  Paradoxes, ya gotta love &lsquo;em!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Just Me Raving On
body:
<p>Well I&rsquo;ve been writing to this since it started, so I try to make a point of writing in periodically after considering a few points.  None of these are real arguments but just pieces of evidence to help us identify with The Wheel of Time.  Firstly the whole evil underdog thing.  We&rsquo;ve seen it with the weaker person turning to evil out of hatred for the greater person.  This has happened with Demandred-Lews Therin, Taim-Rand, Elaida-Siuan, Couladin-Rand, the list goes on.  The main one though is Dark One-Creator, which in my mind is exactly the same just on a greater scale.  I&rsquo;m not going to quote philosophy or anything cuz it tends to confuse me after a while. :)  But this did happen in Christian history with St. Lucifer being cast out of Heaven to become Satan, and I think this was picked up by the wotmania guy. :)  Also Christian belief says there will be one last battle.  So if anyone can be bothered looking into this maybe Robert Jordan has taken pieces of his story line from this and there are more clues. :)  The other point I have though will just sound weird.  I can already see the wotmania guy&rsquo;s response "Yes you were right, that does sound weird."  I was talking with a few friends at school and we worked out that there could be an argument for Rand being fundamentally evil.  Of course this would make the Creator evil, and the Dark One good.  I'll first say we don&rsquo;t honestly believe this, it is just interesting.  What if, in previous turnings of the big Wheel, there was a "last" battle (though it obviously wasn&rsquo;t the last) and the Dark One&rsquo;s minions won.  The Dark One took over the Creator&rsquo;s job and remade his world in his image. The people worshipped the Dark One.  The Creator was cast down and looked upon by the overwhelming majority as bad as the dark One was good.  Over time people came to believe that the Dark One was the Creator, and they labeled the original Creator (who is now cast down and weaker) as the Dark One.  The original Creator&rsquo;s followers were labeled Darkfriends.  I know you're thinking "But wouldn't the world be evil if the Dark One was in control" but not necessarily, it is just in the Dark One&rsquo;s image.  The Dark One&rsquo;s image has the majority worshipping him and he has the most powerful person (Rand) in the world as his champion.  The original Creator (current Dark One) is seething and wants to remake the world again in HIS image if you follow.  He wants to throw away the big Wheel so this travesty of natural justice can never happen again. :) As I said, we don't believe this honestly, and I'm sure you can pick it to pieces if you try, but if put into perspective, this may have happened but I would be disappointed if this is how the story ends. :)</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Yes you were right, that does sound weird.  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" />  I think you are right, that Jordan might have taken an idea or two from Christian beliefs.  I could be wrong on that, though...  It is entirely possible that the Dark One and Creator switch roles all the time.  It would certainly make the world a little more interesting.  I just think that if the original "Dark One" was in charge of the world, things would not look the way they do now.  The world is in general too nice for him to be in charge.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Results of the Last Battle
body:
<p>How will this massive and ridiculously involved saga end?  Will Rand defeat the Dark One utterly, and happily ever after there after?  Will the Dark One be triumphant, the world in chaos forever?  Will Rand make a new prison for the Dark One using both <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>? Well, how about this one - it doesn't end.</p><p>Do I mean the series will never end?  I hope it doesn't, but it will.  No, what I mean is the Dark One will be temporarily sealed, like Ages before.  He will threaten to break free in another Age.  The Dragon will be reborn again and again.</p><p>This ending is the one that I feel is the way it should end.  After all, the series is called The WHEEL of Time.  A wheel as in things go round and round...  I feel that the Age the story is being played has happened before.  They are repeating what has happened, and no matter how hard they try, it will happen again.  And this theory has been hinted in every book in the series.  I mean, every dang book starts off with the reminder to this.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I really hope the series ends with the Dark One dead and gone for good.  I realize it is called the WHEEL of time, but still...  I would hate to think we have read about what is essentially a meaningless turning of a wheel that never stops.  I do not want to think that!  I want a happy ending - perhaps with the end of channeling and time progressing linearly into the future?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: A Hoax Bigger than Canada...
body:
<p>I felt compelled to submit this theory after reading "Last Time Around", submitted by The Bish, concerning the Consequences of the Last Battle, suggesting that the True Source might be destroyed, thereby eliminating the One Power, which turns the Wheel of Time; this could possibly nullify the "wheel" and create a Straight Line of Time (doesn't quite have the same ring to it), resulting in the cessation of reincarnation and the repetition of the same seven Ages.</p><p>I propose that the Wheel itself was concocted by the Dark One as a step in the right direction, setting up the conditions he thinks he needs to free himself from the constraints of time and space, and that this was done so long ago that nobody has a clue that it's been done. He's made sure that everything centers on him (for example, the Wheel of Time has one central recurring event: the Last Battle, featuring the Dark One... and some other guy).</p><p>Now, why did the Dark One do this? Perhaps to take attention away from the Creator, who certainly hasn't been getting much attention, seeing as He's the ultimate being and all. Gods have a tendency to be worshipped, but the only entity being worshipped to any degree so far in all the history of Randland is the Dark One (consider all the bloody things Darkfriends have to do that have been alluded to in the series)! And the Dark One couldn't be more pleased; he can't beat the Creator, so he sets himself to do all the damage he can to the Creator's Beloved Creation, namely humankind, by taking away their fellowship with their God.</p><p>Of course, the above scenario opens a lovely little doorway for wotmania's vaunted (and alleged) Lightfriends, since the Creator wouldn't want to leave His boys and girls with no way back to Him...</p><p>Anyway, I should just mention, for those of you who detest ambiguity, that this would mean that the Dark One is the Source for the One Power and the True Power, which, if I may make a huge stretch, would tie in nicely with the common thought that Aes Sedai are like puppeteers and Egwene's dream of (sorry, I don't have the books handy - maybe <i>The Great Hunt</i>?) Lanfear holding the strings controlling Rand, and Ba'alzamon above her, holding her strings, and strings attached to Ba'alzamon, reaching up into dark clouds; I don't know if that was the dream exactly, but what I mean to say is, wouldn't it be amazing if the Randlanders discovered that their entire basis of belief and existence is just a big hoax - but that's a real stretch, eh?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Woohoo!  Lightfriends!  Heh heh...  This is an extremely interesting theory, with some interesting implications.  I think it would really bug the Aes Sedai if they found out they had been wielding a Power which was created by the Dark One.  I do not know how likely this is, but it sure is fun to speculate, isn&rsquo;t it?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Result of Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don
body:
<p>Ok, this theory is a combination of many theories, bringing a lot of things together and is what I think will happen after Tarmon Gai'don.</p><p>My first supposition is that #1 : The One Power DOES NOT turn the Wheel of Time. Now, I know everyone in Randland [light I hate that name! :)] believes that the One Power turns the Wheel of Time, as Ages come and go, etc., etc., etc.  But what if the One Power does not turn the Wheel, but keeps it in place. The One Power, the Creator, and the Dark One all serve as the axle that the Wheel turns around. They act as the axle on a car which has been raised off the ground. It allows the Wheel to spin freely around it, but to go nowhere. So the same spot on the Wheel keeps coming and going, but never moving from the same spot. The result is that the Ages come and go, but always repeat themselves.</p><p>Ok, now comes the tricky part...</p><p>I believe that at the end of Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don Rand will break the One Power. (The axle holding the wheel in place remember...) What he will do is not just seal up the prison of the Dark One, but actually remove the Dark One&rsquo;s influence on the Wheel. He will separate the turnings of the Wheel from the Dark One. He will break the One Power, for good. To do this, he will have to, for a short period of time, break outside the Creator and the Dark One's influence to truly act on his own. If this line of reasoning follows back about Ages coming and going, then every time Lews Therin gets to this point, he seals up the Dark One&rsquo;s prison and dies at Shayol Ghul. The prophecies are just readings of the Pattern to be. But if the Pattern is held in check by the One Power, the Creator, and the Dark One, that means they are merely reading what the Creator is telling them will happen. Again and again as it always has.</p><p>This time, Rand will survive. He will break the One Power, causing the Wheel to break free of its axle that for so long held it in place. It will cause the turnings of the wheel to become movement. Time will no longer be a circle, but linear. By breaking free, it will allow the Wheel to go rolling away, so that when the same point on the Wheel comes again and again, the scenery will always be different so that Ages cease to come and go, repeating themselves as the always had. The first effect will be that Rand (Lews Therin) this time, does not die at Shayol Ghul. By breaking the One Power, he removes himself, and the entire pattern, from forever repeating the same actions over and over. He sets them free of the Creator, the Dark One, and the One Power.</p><p>He will lead the way in forging ahead into a new Age. An Age which will never repeat itself, an Age that leads into new Ages that will never come again once they pass. The One Power will forever be left behind them, never to be touched again by humans which will allow them to move forward. The Creator, the Dark One, and the One Power will become only legend, then myth as time rolls forward. Then eventually they will be forgotten entirely except by those who remain dedicated in the hope that one day the Creator will return and save them from their troubles.</p><p>Eventually the Wheel of Time will come to resemble our world. It's God and Devil, all but forgotten - purely a myth that cannot be proven. For now, we look ahead. The past long forgotten because we will never see it again, no matter how many turnings the Wheel takes. This is what Rand will do, he will lead the way into a new time. He will be our savior...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, lots of people lately have been writing about how the One Power will cease to exist after this Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, which many believe will be the LAST battle.  I would have to agree, though some of my reasons are bit simpler.  What happens (if the Power exists after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don) when Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha all live for a couple hundred years, while Min (if she lives long) will hit about eighty?  If the One Power disappears, they can all grow old together.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: A New Dark One
body:
<p>Okay, here is a little rambling of my own. Given the series&rsquo; title, I assume that there will be no LAST battle, only a great battle repeating itself over and over. Yet, all we can say we know about it sums up in what Ishamael told Lews Therin at the very beginning: they fought each other countless times. So I think their two souls keep being reborn again and again. But this does not imply anything about the Dark One! So I think it is possible that at the end of Tarmon Gai'don Rand destroys (balefires?) the Dark One, but some other character steps out of the Pattern and becomes the new chief symbol of the Shadow, and the Dark One Rand would destroy at the next turning, etc...</p><p>Moreover, we can remember Ishamael stating that Lews Therin sometimes served the Shadow. Why not suppose then that these times Elan Morin was the champion of the Light (I know, I myself find it hard to believe!)? But it becomes less absurd when we remember a circle of thirteen channelers plus thirteen Myrddraal can turn anyone to the Shadow. What if in a past life this happened to Elan Morin? Then he could be "Healed" from it, thus becoming good again (Supposing he once was!) while Rand will become evil.</p><p>But back to my "new Dark One" theory. Who would be the next? Well, I think it would be a fitting destiny for Padan Fain/Mordeth who is more and more becoming a "something" inhuman, a sort of evil superpower not submitting to the present Dark One. So imagine at the end Fain as the Dark One, Rand as Nae'blis and Ishamael (Who, I think now Moridin.) as the champion of Light! THAT would be unexpected!</p><p>By the way, here is another little theory. I think Jordan took in his book elements from St. John's Apocalypse (Last Battle, Dragon, Seven Seals....). But in WoT the Dragon is the good guy. Well, if we keep this idea, we could remember there is a crucial character, supposed to kill the Dragon in the Apocalypse: the young boy whose birth is described in the text. I have read somewhere someone pointing at this, and saying maybe this boy would be Morgase's son and Rahvin's, remembering Rahvin's other name, Gaebril, who looks a twin brother to Gabriel who told the Virgin she would bear the Christ. But I have another theory about it: why would the mother not be Lanfear?! In the Apocalypse, the mother is said to be standing on the Moon, clad in the Sun with a crown of stars. Lanfear has symbols of the moon and stars in her hair and is dressed in white, color of the Light of which the Sun is a symbol. Who could then be the father? Well, no idea! Maybe Rand, or a creature from the world of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn....</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, you touched on a lot of points with this one...  First off, I think it is possible that Fain might be the "next Dark One."  Sort of like Sauron took over for Morgoth after he got the axe...  Somehow I do not think we will see Rand fighting for the Shadow and Ishamael/Moridin fighting for the Light in this particular turn of the Wheel.  I do not really know what to say about the last bit there, except I doubt it could be a child of Morgase and Rahvin seeing as Morgase has not really showed any sign of being pregnant - and I think she has been out of Andor long enough where she would have by now.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Results of the Last Battle
body:
<p>I think the theories about the Wheel rolling away and the end of the One Power are ridiculous. In the prologue of the first book, Ishamael said to Lews Therin that he had fought him thousands of times and will fight thousands of times more. The Wheel will keep on turning and there will be infinite number of Dragon Reborn's fighting the Dark One. Jordan clearly says that time is like the Wheel, it is a circle, and it will never end. The story in only set in the Third Age and it is only one Age in an infinite number of Ages. The part with the memories, myth and legend just says that the Wheel is a circle and it has will turn back to the same place again. In the first paragraph of every book, Jordan clearly states that everything moves in a circle and will go back to the same place and repeat itself. Jordan says that because this idea of the Wheel is the essence of the series and that's why he called The Wheel of Time.</p><p>My theory of the Last Battle is that Rand is going to seal up the prison again (If he gets rid of the Dark One then what Jordan said on time will not work.). Lan said to Rand once that every man has to choose a time to sheath his sword. I believe that Rand is going to sheath his sword and kill himself after he wins the Last Battle and shed his blood on Shayol Ghul. This way he won't go crazy and break the world like Lews Therin. This gives way for the Dark One to break free again and another Dragon Reborn will come out and the Wheel will repeat itself.</p><p>A more happy ending will be that Nynaeve will be able to cleanse <i>saidin</i> so Rand doesn't have to kill himself. I like my first ending better though.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, personally, I think the series might very well end with the end of channeling...  I think it would be a very awkward relationship if Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha will all live for a long time (because they can channel) and Min lives a normal amount of time.  Also, Rand already chose to sheath his sword - in the sky back in Falme.  Until I read the last book in the series, I am going to keep believing channeling will disappear after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Perrin After the Last Battle?
body:
<p>All this talk about rebuilding after the Last Battle doesn't seem like it actually makes any sense. As Moiraine once said, even if Rand and the other Asha'man don't go insane and break the world (or Rand does manage to clean <i>saidin</i>), Tarmon Gai'don by itself will tear the world apart. It took one or two hundred years after the Breaking of the World at the end of the Age of Legends for people to even start coming out of "hiding."  It just doesn't seem like that much time will pass afterwards. I don't think that the Breaking will be as bad this time, mainly because it does seem plausible that <i>Saidin</i> has to get cleaned sometime, else there would never be another Age of Legends. But as grim as this sounds, Jordan stated once that when he began writing this series, he only had two scenes in his head - the very first scene (which I take as either Lews Therin and Ishamael or Rand and Tam at the beginning) and the last scene. And as I said, as grim as this sounds, I really think that the last scene might just be Min's viewing of three women mourning over Rand on a funeral byre. There might be a little more after it, but I think that's going to be the last major scene.</p><p>Here's another theory, though. Speaking of cleaning <i>saidin</i> before the next Age of Legends. There also has to be a time that the seals are no longer needed because by the time the Age of Legends comes around, there's not even mention of the Dark One. As in nobody even knows he exists. When do you think the Bore will be completely sealed again? The Creator stated at the end of <i>The Eye of the World</i> (at Tarwin&rsquo;s Gap, talking to Rand) that he would not get involved. Do you think at the end of the Seventh Age the Creator reseals the Dark One in his prison and recreates the world? That would mean the world has to be destroyed at the end of the Seventh Age. Of course, that is four Ages from now, I doubt this theory will ever be answered. But it is nice food for thought.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not necessarily think that Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don will tear the world apart - at least not to the extent of the Breaking of the World.  I think it is perfectly reasonable that a lot of the rebuilding after the Last Battle will fall to Perrin.  Also, I do not think the Creator will have to re-create the world after the Seventh Age - I think Rand (probably with a little help) will remake the Dark One&rsquo;s prison.  It would then be this prison that a future generation will drill a new Bore into.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The Wheel Will Keep Turning
body:
<p>Okay, this is something that I only noticed on about my fifteenth reading of the series, but it is irrefutable. We've had a whole stack of discussions about the result of Tarmon Gai'don, and a lot of good points raised, but...</p><p>At the end of one of <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> the verse of prophecy is attributed to a writer in the Fourth Age. Well, if we're currently in the Third Age, then the Wheel can't be broken, and there can't be a "Straight Line Of Time," or there would be no Fourth Age for that to have been written in.</p><p>Advocates of the linear continuation theory might suggest that the Fourth Age would simply be the way of referring to the time after the Second Breaking (Rand's supposed destiny), but that seems a little facile and un-Jordan-like to me. If there was to be a counter-argument, I'd like to think that it would concern the fact that as things currently stand there is a Fourth Age in the pipeline, but the consequences of Tarmon Gai'don might conspire to preclude the possibility of a Fourth Age by breaking the Wheel. This doesn't sound much like Jordan to me, either. I reckon the Wheel will just keep on going like a little pink rabbit with a battery on its back. That's my story, and I'm sticking' to it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is a very good point, one I have never really thought of before...  I still think channeling will disappear after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, but this little peace of evidence does make it a bit tougher to believe that...  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: To Everything Turn, Turn, Turn
body:
<p>Sorry, but I thought this was rather obvious. Robert Jordan says over and over again throughout the books that there are only seven Ages that just get cycled through. I mean, c'mon, it starts out all of the books, "The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again." The "third" Age has already happened and will happen again! That's one of the main themes of the story! How did you guys miss it?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I (and everyone else who thinks this way) certainly realize that every book starts out saying that the Wheel keeps turning and turning...  But right now there are a lot of things Rand is doing (like the creation of his schools) which could potentially lead the way to a world more like our own.  And personally, the biggest thing going in favor of this theory (at least to me), is that it will prevent Rand, Aviendha, and Elayne from outliving poor Min by about 600 years.  I am not absolutely sure this is what I think, but I would not be at all surprised if Tarmon Gai'don ends and the True Source has disappeared.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: If Rand, Min, Aviendha, and Elayne All Live...
body:
<p>You say that if there is still channeling after the last battle then that makes it awkward for this little quartet as Min would die much earlier than the others thanks to her inability to channel. Don't you think that it would be awkward if they were all to live? How many women do you know who are happy to share their man with another woman-much less two of them- permanently? Can't think of any myself! Therefore either Rand has to die or two of the girls or Elayne has to give up on Rand and fall for someone else so that she can rule and the same for one or both of the other two so that Rand is left with only one love interest or all three girls have none. There is also Lanfear to consider. If she were to repent as is suggested in another post and the other three were to either die or find other loves then this would leave Rand free for her. I would have to say that this last is a new theory for me as I don't tend to think of Lanfear becoming one of the good guys. Also if she were to repent and Rand were to die then the two of them could live together in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod as heroes thus leaving the world without what I can only see as an ultimately unhappy quartet of lovers which can never live happily ever after. Unfortunately much as I hate to say it, the easiest way out seems to be for Rand to die, even though I would much rather see him end up with Aviendha myself and failing that Min.</p><p>Also has anyone else thought of the fact that Lanfear wears moons in her hair (and remember that Jordan seldom mentions anything no matter how small a detail without reason) and Mat is destined to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons? Enough said. Preposterous perhaps but a thought all the same.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmm...  Well, I do not know how many women in the real world would enjoy sharing their husband, but in Randland a number of Aiel women certainly do not seem to mind.  Perhaps Jordan is being a bit unrealistic on this point...  I have trouble with Rand, Elayne, Min, or Aviendha.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: There Will Be Channeling After Tarmon Gai'don
body:
<p>Of course there will be channeling!</p><p>First of all, look at the repercussions on those who can channel. It would be the same as being stilled! For those of you worried about Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha living longer than Min with channeling - without, they likely won't live very long at all! The old Aes Sedai, Kinswomen, Windfinders, Wise Ones, etc., will probably die, and the young ones, including the Asha'man, will wish they had.</p><p>Secondly, the One Power is what keeps the Wheel of Time turning.  For those of you who think the Wheel will stop, look at Oliver's theory - the Fourth Age writings in the book. If you accept that the Wheel will keep going, how can the source that turns it be gone?</p><p>Third, for those who are concerned about Min dying before the rest: What makes you think they'll live so long? There's a very good chance of any or all of them dying at the Last Battle. And maybe something to do with her viewings will cause her to live longer also.</p><p>Well, that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. The first part is the main basis for it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmmm...  That is a good point you make - those who have been channeling and are forced to live without the One Power tend to have rather short lives.  But perhaps that is because they can still sense the True Source, as a constant reminder...  Also, I cannot imagine that Jordan would kill off Rand, Elayne, Min, or Aviendha.  I will be disappointed if Tarmon Gai'don ends with all the major good guys alive, but I think those four are pretty safe.  I just love to play devil's advocate...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Rand Will Die at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don
body:
<p>I have wondered what will happen with Rand loved by three women. I want to suggest that he'll marry them all, but I don't think Elayne is thrilled with this proposal from Aviendha, and I dunno about Min.  No one seems willing to share him but Aviendha.  So, I doubt it will come to that.</p><p>Some people have suggested that one or two of his three-fold lover club will die before or in Tarmon Gai'don. I however, think Rand will be the one who dies.</p><p>"The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."  Blood spilled could just mean a wound, but with such a great battle it would make sense that he would lose his life to save the world.</p><p>Besides, Rand is doomed to go mad anyway. What of that? Most certainly it would be more... uh, honorable for lack of a better word... for Rand to die "freeing mankind from the Shadow."</p><p>Have you noticed the parallels between Rand and Jesus Christ?<ul><li>"much weeping and gnashing of teeth at his birth."</li><li>False Dragons, much like Anti-Christs, before his coming?</li><li>Rand trails strife behind him. The Bible says Jesus had come to turn "father against daughter, and daughter against father; daughter-in-law against mother-in-law, and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law."</li></ul>Jesus' blood atoned for the sins of the world, saving mankind from Satan. He died in shedding that blood. Seeing that verse about 'Blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul' convinces me that Rand will follow the same path.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know about none of the women wanting to share Rand - Elayne has said on more than one occasion that she would not mind.  She hardly even resents what Aviendha and Rand have shared; instead she wants the same thing herself...  I do not see any of the three women really having a problem with sharing him (however unrealistic that might be).  I have a hard time imagining the four of them not living "happily ever after."  As for the Christ parallels, I take them to mean that Rand might die, but he will not be "dead for good."<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Breaking the Wheel
body:
<p>I'm new to this series, but I'm interested in the breaking of the Wheel/continuity of the Wheel issue.  So far in the books I've seen many statements that contradict each other - sometimes claiming the Wheel is just cycling and will continue to cycle, others claiming that THIS cycle is different, and will see the breaking of the Wheel and no more cycles.  Here's my thought, ripped off from a Star Trek: the Next Generation episode...  Each cycle the Dark One attempts to break the Wheel and remake the world in his own image, with the (dark) True Source replacing the (light) One Source, creating a "Dark One universe."  This attempt has always ended in defeat of the Dark One, apparently, as the Wheel continues to turn.  However, this outcome is in fact sort of a draw, because the Dark One gets to keep coming back to try again.  So maybe the end of the series will be a breaking of the Wheel in a different sense than the Dark One desires:  the Dark One will be destroyed or cast out of the world (like Morgoth in Tolkien) and perhaps the One Source destroyed as well, to prevent the Wheel from turning again?  The Dragon would lose something with this outcome, too, because he wouldn't be coming back again, but good ol' Rand might be willing to give up his immortality for the rest of us slobs.   This is the similarity to the Star Trek episode:  both sides get to keep trying the cycle until one of them gets it "right" and breaks the Wheel.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is an idea...  It would require a leap in thinking by the Dragon (Rand, in this case).  Obviously, we all know the Dark One is trying to break the Wheel.  It would be an interesting twist if the good guys were to win by breaking the Wheel...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: The One Power Can't Be "Broken"
body:
<p>I have read several theory posts about Rand somehow taking the Wheel off its axle, thereby removing the One Power.  While I agree that in a literary way makes sense for a good plot, I don't think it would be very healthy for the WoT universe.  We don't know too much about the WoT universe, except that it has physical laws.  (Granted they are sometimes limited to only one or some realities, but they exist.)  I don't think it would be possible to remove something like the One Power and expect the universe to go on with itself.  I would liken this to the removal of a fundamental piece of our own universe.  If we decided at some point we had to get rid of, say photons (I'm talking about light, not Star Trek weapons), it would completely unbalance reality as we know it.  Everything would fall apart, the universe would collapse, and that would be the end of it.  This is assuming that it would be at all possible to do such a thing.  So the first question is this: Is the amount of Power Rand can channel enough to rip something away from his universe?</p><p>I would say that in all likelihood, probably not.  That would require the strength of the Creator, since he DID design the darned thing it seems probable he would have some kind of protection against it.  If that still doesn't satisfy you, try answering these ones...</p><p>Now we know that the One Power provides the axle for the wheel, but what makes it turn?  What powers the weaving of the threads?  And most importantly, if the axle were removed, how could it roll?  Are we assuming it is just hovering above some vast infinite Wheel of Time highway conveniently placed beforehand by the Creator?</p><p>To answer the first two, I would say that the One Power provides everything that the Wheel needs to function.  To answer the last, I would say that if such an event were to occur, it is highly unlikely to predict what could happen.</p><p>Now, you all are probably expecting me to tell you what I think WILL happen. Here goes...  I think this Age will end nearly the same as the last Third Age, and will spew out a new Fourth Age after it.  Any predictions are speculative since we only have information on about 2/7 of all time, but I will try.  Since WoTWorld is a world of balance, I believe every Age's use of the One Power will be balanced by another.  We know both halves were used extensively in the last Age.  We know that the male half is not used too much now because of the taint.  That means in at least one other Age the Power will be virtually unknown, and in another the female half will be used very little.  That leaves three, and your guess is as good as mine.  But I digress...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know, I still have a problem with channeling after the Last Battle.  Of course, at the same time I have a problem with pulling a major component of Randland out and disturbing the natural order of things...  It looks like this might be one of those mysteries that will remain until the final book of the series.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Fain Will NOT Be the Dark One
body:
<p>Just an idea, and the will to fly in the face of this now-accepted, yet baseless, assertion.</p><p>Why will there be a new Dark One next Age? I agree that there are many things to suggest that Fain is developing some odd talents, but there's a lot of ground to cover between that and replacing Shai'tan.  And the Dark One didn't get replaced the last Age, so why this one? If you remember, right there in the prologue to <i>The Eye of the World</i>, when Ishamael does that really cool type of Traveling that nobody else can do, he yells at Lews Therin Telamon, something like "Shai'tan take you, does the taint already have you so far in its grip?" and Lews Therin remembers that it's dangerous to say that name, just as folks reckon even today.</p><p>So unless we get a new Dark One (and a new Creator?) at the end of each Third Age, then I don't see how Fain can be the next Dark One. And if a new Dark One is created every Third Age, why is it the *Third* Age? Surely the Creation, and the first imprisonment of the Dark One, and all the other mytho-historical stuff should be either First Age, or before Time officially began.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I am not positive there will be a new Dark One after the Last Battle, but it is an interesting idea...  I do not believe that anyone thinks there is a new Dark One every Age, but I think there are logical arguments for a new Dark One with every turning of the Wheel.  In any event, I just think this is an interesting line of argument...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: A Major Piece in the Game
body:
<p>I don't know if I just missed this theory in all the posts on the site (I haven't been able to read them all), or if it's just that no one has bothered to post it since the release of <i>The Path of Daggers</i>. This is more of a response to some of the other theories posting that Rand may actually break the Wheel of Time, ceasing the endlessly repeating events surrounding the release/imprisonment of the Dark One.  Moridin's favorite game, <i>sha'rah</i>, which he remembers as being ancient even in the Age of Legends, centers around a playing piece called the Fisher. The Fisher is always worked as a man with a bandage blinding his eyes and a hand pressed to his side, where blood drips through his fingers. To me this implies a distant memory of Rand and the struggle between the Light and the Shadow. If it does, that means Rand doesn't break the Wheel; his part is the cycle is back to where it began repeating itself. I know, I know - just because he's bleeding from his side doesn't mean it's Rand.  Too much coincidence for me; every event, however minor, can play a major part in Jordan's story. I don't write like a member of the White Ajah, explaining my logic perfectly (as many others on this site do), but felt this should be pointed out, as it's extremely relevant to a possible break of the Wheel.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is definitely an interesting point, one I had not thought of...  But I do not know that the Fisher is a memory of Rand - it may simply be a memory of a person a lot like Rand who went through the same kind of stuff the last time this Age came around the Wheel.  I hope you get what I am saying there...  It is important to remember, though, that just because the "last Rand" did not break the Wheel does not mean that this Rand will not as well.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Tarmon Gai'don - the LAST Battle
body:
<p>There have been questions at to whether Tarmon Gai'don will be the final battle between the Dark One and the Dragon.  I am certain it will be.</p><p>Of course, I have heard the argument that the Wheel of Time will continue to turn and that, while the Dark One may be defeated, the Pattern will repeat itself and he will be let loose once again to wreak havoc on the world and the Dragon shall be reborn and another Tarmon Gai'don will follow.  Ishamael has eluded to the fact, and so have many others, that this struggle between the Shadow and the Light personified by the Dark One and the Dragon has occurred thousands of times with the turning of the Wheel of Time.  And of course, we all understand that when an Age is repeated, it is not completely repeated.  By this I mean that there are always similarities in the Ages, but they are not replicas of the previous turning of the Wheel.  However, in this case there are several major differences in the Pattern that distinctly indicate that this Tarmon Gai'don is for all of the marbles.  All the marbles?  I mean the Dark One will be defeated once and for all.  The major differences are the following:<ul><li><i>Saidin</i> was never tainted before in the thousands of previous struggles with the Dark One.  Male Aes Sedai were always involved and from these came the Dragon.  The fact that the Dark One, who exists outside of the Pattern, touched the Pattern in this major way, illustrates a major change in the continuing conflict.  Now male Aes Sedai do not exist and female Aes Sedai have dwindled in numbers and power.</li><li>There were never THREE <i>ta'veren</i> involved before.  This time the fate of the world rests, not only on Rand, but also on Perrin and Mat.  As seen by Min many times, they are all central to the outcome of Tarmon Gai'don.</li><li>The Aiel were never fierce warriors before.  This is a major difference in the Pattern.</li><li>Stilled and gentled people were never Healed before, even in the Age of Legends.</li><li>A new evil walks the lands, too.  Padan Fain, who is a combination of Mordeth and the Dark One and is clearly more dangerous than what we have seen so far. Fain will not become the new Dark One.  What evil will take place after the Dark One is destroyed?  Will the world be a perfect place?  No.  The evil of man, led by one man who is not a god outside of the pattern, will take over and contribute to the ongoing struggle.</li><li>In the previous Ages when the Dragon battled the Dark One, the Forsaken were always killed.  Then when the Age of Legends returned, powerful Aes Sedai were born and raised in a world that didn't know war.  From these male Aes Sedai came the Forsaken, who tried to free the Dark One, and the Dragon.  This time, the Forsaken were bound and were not reborn.  Furthermore, the Dragon's return was never prophecised nor was Tarmon Gai'don as it is now in the Third Age.</li><li>The world was never destroyed as it was in the Time of Madness - a direct result of the Dark One's counterstroke.</li><li>In <i>The Eye of the World</i>, the Green Man remarks that it has been harder than ever for him to keep the Blight out - harder than since the beginning of time.  Close to exact words.</li><li>The Shadow's direct goal is to destroy Time itself and rebuild the world.  Of course, this has been the goal since the Age of Legends.  This means that Tarmon Gai'don is not another battle as seen in the Age of Legends, but a continuation of that battle - one that will lead to the ultimate destruction of either the Dark One or the Light.</li></ul>This is all I have so far.  See what you think.  As far as to what the outcome will be after Tarmon Gai'don? I don't know.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I hate to disagree (rather strongly, actually), but...  We know virtually nothing about the last time this Age came around.  The only thing that looks like it <i>might</i> relate to the last time "Rand" was alive in a previous Age is the Fisher from <i>sha'rah</i>.  That's it.  To say that <i>saidin</i> was never tainted before is simply a guess, not based on fact.  Maybe Rand in this Age cleanses <i>saidin</i>.  Then the next time the "Age of Legends" rolls around it ends up tainted again and the "next Rand" has to deal with the madness all over again.    The same goes for three <i>ta'veren</i>, the Forsaken, the Breaking, etc. It is important to remember that this is not the replay of the Age of Legends - it is a replay of the last time the "Third Age" came around the Wheel. Most of this theory is based on things we cannot possibly know, since pretty much nothing is known about the last time this Age took place.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: Ragnarok
body:
<p>There has been some debate as to whether or not the Last Battle will truly be the LAST battle or if it will merely be A battle that happens again and again on the Wheel of Time. I just thought I would throw in a little something that isn't in any way meant to be proof either way, but just a little something to mull over in your minds.  Considering Jordan's reliance on Norse mythology for some of his plot lines and character bases, I would not at all be surprised to find the Last Battle to be partially based off of the Ragnarok (the Norse Armageddon.) Ragnarok is a battle in which pretty much every major (and almost all of the minor) characters die at each other's hands. The good, the bad, and the ugly all go down for the count when Ragnarok comes rolling around. However, all is not lost because as the battles rage and the Earth is destroyed, then also the world is reborn and becomes just what it was in the beginning. So I guess that if Jordan wants to have a Norse end to the Last Battle then it can't be the just the Last Battle but also the recreation of the universe. Very wheel-like.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmm...  I think I have Norse Mythology 101 next semester at school.  Maybe not... <img src="images/wink.gif" />  My knowledge of Norse mythology is limited (pretty much what people have posted here), but this is entirely possible.  It is clear that Jordan pulls ideas from a lot of different places, and maybe this is one of them.  Not much else I can say on this one.  Good work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-21 00:00:00
subject: A New Library
body:
<p>Min has a viewing that one of the Aes Sedai was going to found a huge library. This hardly seems like something someone would do in the middle of the current chaos in the world and with Tarmon Gai'don rapidly approaching. I think this is a viewing of something that will happen after the Dark One is defeated or sealed away! Here's the viewing:<blockquote>"Light, she (Beldeine) was going to bond an Asha'man as a Warder! And there was nothing useful in knowing some man would melt her (Sarene).One red-and-green aura spoke of honors, and fame. A huge building appeared over her had and vanished. A library she would found." <i>The Path of Daggers (560)</i></blockquote></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Certainly an interesting point!  And you are certainly correct, no one is going to be founding any libraries in the upcoming months.  Perhaps this is a little extra proof that Rand will win Tarmon Gai'don.  Nice theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Whitecloaks
body:
<p>This Whitecloak thread to me isn&rsquo;t a very important one, but I am just curious as to what role the Children of the Light will play in the story line leading to Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  In the WoT universe, the Whitecloaks are untrusting of anyone having anything to do with the White Tower, the One Power, or the Dragon Reborn; even going so far as naming them Darkfriends. And now with the Asha&rsquo;man added to the fray, this furthers the Whitecloaks&rsquo; isolation. I don&rsquo;t think the Whitecloaks will be much of a factor, if at all, when the Last Battle arrives.  Some say that Galad will restructure and then lead the Whitecloaks on the side of Light at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don under the Dragon Reborn.  But could the Whitecloaks fight with or alongside Power-wielding "Tar Valon Witches" and Asha&rsquo;man?  More than likely they will fight for the Light but as a separate unit, swearing fealty to no one but the Light.  I am curious to see what happens in the upcoming books with them.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The Whitecloaks are finding themselves increasingly outnumbered, in that the power in the world is now going to forces they swear are Darkfriends - the forces of the Shadow, Aes Sedai, Rand, and the Asha&rsquo;man.  I do not know whether or not Galad will change the Whitecloaks.  I can certainly see them fighting at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, though, and their independence causing Rand additional problems Rand can ill afford.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Re: Whitecloaks
body:
<p>I read the theory recently posted about Whitecloaks concerning Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don and an interesting thought occurred to me.  I&rsquo;m sure most people remember Galad constantly mentioning the founder of the Whitecloaks (I forget his name) and how he looks up to and respects his ideals.  I think that he will be disgusted when he learns of the corruption, lies, and deceit that have infiltrated the Whitecloaks and.... I&rsquo;m going out on a very big limb here....  Create a break away group of Whitecloaks.  I&rsquo;m sure Galad will serve some good in Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, but as a Whitecloak I don&rsquo;t think it is possible.  He&rsquo;ll have to either defy the Whitecloaks or leave them to do anything good.  Further reasons that I think he will be good is....  The Amyrlin will be his sister in law, his mother was trained in the Tower, his half sister will be Aes Sedai, his half brother will be both a Warder and Aes Sedai sympathizer.  If Galad&rsquo;s group does break away, look for it to leave behind the old guard such as Eamon Valda and Jaichim Carridin and mainly consist of younger Children of the Light.  I think these people will realize Aes Sedai are agents of Light and not Shadow.  In response to the previous theory, I think they are too full of the Shadow, corruption, and lies to turn to the Light.  They would trust nobody except themselves, and certainly not Rand, who is reborn as a man who broke the world.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is an idea that I like.  Galad obviously is going to do something with the Whitecloaks.  I (like a lot of people) thought he might eventually take over.  Galad leading away a splinter group is just as possible, though.  I do not think the Whitecloaks, in general, are full of the Shadow - they are simply misguided.  Galad could turn this new group into what the Whitecloaks should actually be.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Re: Re: Whitecloaks
body:
<p>I have to agree that Galad will do "something" about the Whitecloaks.  As he admires the founder, he will rebuild the Children of the Light and bring them back to their original purpose, which I guess was to serve the Light.</p><p>Still, one thing has been plaguing my mind ever since the Seanchan took over the Fortress of the Light...  How many Whitecloaks are there left?  Their headquarters were attacked, and I don&rsquo;t think they surrendered, which means that all of those who were in the Fortress at the time of the attack were killed.</p><p>Maybe I&rsquo;m just delirious, but it&rsquo;s something to think about...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Even if every Whitecloak in the Fortress of the Light was killed by the Seanchan, there are certainly quite a few floating around out there.  If Galad does in fact start to rebuild the Children, he will most likely have a small group to start with.  It would be nice to see the Whitecloaks fighting for the Light more effectively.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Re: Re: Re: Whitecloaks
body:
<p>I just wanted to know what was going on with the document that Queen (or former Queen) Morgase signed for Pedron Niall.  Does this document switch over to all Whitecloaks, Eamon Valda, or was it specifically for Niall?  Either way, I think that Andor will be besieged by the Seanchan, and one side or the other will have that document.  Either the Whitecloaks will use this to gain entry into Andor anyway, or Morgase will use it to force the Whitecloaks into helping defend Andor.  With the second possibility, this could be a turning point for Galad.  I think that Eamon Valda (if he&rsquo;s alive) or whoever the Lord Captain Commander is will resent being forced into something and go back on his word.  Galad will dislike the fact that Whitecloaks go back on their word and/or resent the fact that the Whitecloaks won&rsquo;t defend his mother&rsquo;s kingdom, even though he is obviously rising fast as a commander of the future.  This will probably be the trigger he needs to set up his own group of Whitecloaks, a disagreement about Andor with the Lord Captain Commander.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmm...  The Whitecloaks refusing to help defend Andor would certainly be a good reason for Galad and his side to splinter off (or for Galad to take control of the whole operation).  But the Whitecloaks will certainly need help to deal with the Seanchan (read that as help fighting <i>damane</i>).  Of course, led by Galad they probably will not hold to the incorrect belief that Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man are all Darkfriends.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Galad for Lord Captain Commander
body:
<p>I think that after the recent devastation of Amadicia, and most likely the executions of the Children&rsquo;s leaders, Galad will soon lead the Children to glory along the guidelines set in the original founder&rsquo;s image of what they should be.</p><p>His nobility, strength, and charisma make him a very likely choice for the remaining Children to follow. Bornhald&rsquo;s whelp, another possible leader, will lose his backing because he is consumed with avenging his father&rsquo;s death.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would absolutely love to see Galad in charge of the Whitecloaks, and I think it will happen to.  Would anyone else enjoy a Dain vs. Galad duel?  I think we know who would win that one...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Two Rights
body:
<p>I agree that the Whitecloaks will play a part in the final battle. Jordan is a master at character development, and I think Galad is due for an epiphany. My theory is that Galad will be faced with two rights that will make him rethink everything he believes in. He believes Aes Sedai are bad, Rand is bad, and that the Whitecloaks are good. I think he will be faced with the truth that Rand is the Dragon Reborn and that if he doesn't succeed, the world is doomed. He will bring the Whitecloaks under Rand. Galad will realize that Rand represents the Light, and that is how he will get the rest of the Whitecloaks to follow - pointing out that Rand is the Dragon Reborn and he is the only hope of stopping the Shadow.</p><p>The Whitecloaks will flock to follow Galad, raising the ranks of Whitecloaks to many more than ever before. Galad will control an army Whitecloaks such as the world has never seen. But they will be what they were intended to be - people who live in the Light and truly strive to fight the Shadow. Galad's rightness will rub off on the rest of them. I also think he will get rid of the Questioners.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I agree that Galad will take over the Whitecloaks, and a dilemma similar to what you suggest might be just what it takes to get Galad moving in the right direction.  And I would love to see Galad get rid of the Questioners - I do not like them very much...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: It Was Lanfear!
body:
<p>I think the killer was Lanfear. Think about it, she could kill instantly (One Power, or True Power), was recognizable to Asmodean (She was CHOSEN!), Asmodean doesn't expect her (she&rsquo;s supposed to be dead or in the doorway), and a possible motive could be that she didn't want Rand to find out from Asmodean that she was back from the doorway. After weighing it up, she's my most likely pick.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is also my belief that Lanfear was the killer.  I think her main reason for doing so, though, was to prevent Asmodean from teaching Rand any more than he already had.  Soon, she would no longer be stronger than this second coming of the Dragon.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Is Asmodean Really Dead?
body:
<p>It was written that "death took him."  It is often mentioned that Moridin is a "man who calls himself death."  Maybe Asmodean is trapped like Moghedien is, in the mindtraps of Moridin (mind that he has two traps ).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Moridin does indeed have two mind traps, but I doubt one of them is Asmodean.  Robert Jordan said at one point that everything we needed to know to figure out this puzzle was in the book by <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>.  We had not met Moridin yet by that point, so it would seem to rule this out.  Besides, that second mindtrap is almost certainly Cyndane.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Asmodean&rsquo;s Killer
body:
<p>My support for who killed is more than likely Graendal, who seems extremely confident that Asmodean is dead with no known proof of this, while many of the others seem perplexed to his status or whereabouts.  However one idea I would like to try is that with Lanfear and Moiraine being flung into the Tower of the Eelfinn and Lanfear&rsquo;s death almost certain (as is her reincarnation by the Dark One as Moghedien&rsquo;s new girlfriend) perhaps Asmodean&rsquo;s killer is Moiraine?  For unknown reasons and perhaps new abilities given by the Eelfinn she would be able to do so.  Why she would keep quiet and out of sight is unknown, but it could be quite possible.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There is very little evidence to support Graendal as the killer.  Mere confidence that Asmodean is dead does not amount to much.  I have never really thought of Moiraine being Asmodean&rsquo;s killer, but what motive would she have?  Apparently she knew who was teaching Rand about <i>saidin</i> - why would she suddenly change her mind?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Why Lanfear Is Not The Killer
body:
<p>It is my belief that Lanfear could not have been the killer.  First, how could she have gotten back to Rand&rsquo;s camp when the doorway to the Land of the Finn was melted?  Second, Aviendha or Egwene would have sensed <i>saidar</i> being used to kill Asmodean</p><p>It couldn&rsquo;t have been a <i>saidin</i>-user, because Rand would have felt it.  I am not sure who it was, it may have been Shaidar Haran, but the question of how Asmodean knew him is raised.  Shaidar Haran came onto the scene after Asmodean was captured by Lanfear and Rand, so I am completely confused as to who it could have been.</p><p>Granted, it could have been one of the Forsaken, but they would have to have been using the True Power.  I am positive that it could not have been Lanfear, because even if she could Travel out of the Land of the Finn, she would have had to spend several hours learning the area in order to Travel.  If she went by Skimming, it would have taken her several hours to Skim her way there.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The killer could have used <i>saidar</i> - with  women around who could channel, the feel of someone channeling <i>saidar</i> might not have aroused suspicion.  It could not have been Shaidar Haran; Robert Jordan has stated that everything needed to solve this puzzle was in the books up through Asmodean&rsquo;s death.  I think Lanfear could have made it there to do the deed.  In my opinion, she&rsquo;s the best bet.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Graendal
body:
<p>The chill that Asmodean felt was probably <i>saidar</i>.  He recognized his killer - so it was probably a Forsaken.  Lanfear is presumably dead - she later reappears as Cyndane. Moghedien is a prisoner.  That leaves Graendal, Semirhage, and Mesaana. Graendal had been present in Caemlyn before and was party to the four Forsaken plot against Rand.  She later speaks as if she is pretty sure that Asmodean is dead when others are unsure.  IIRC, she talks about being named Nae&rsquo;blis after Asmo&rsquo;s death.  Why?  What has she done to merit it?  Kill Asmodean.  Also, she later loots Sammael&rsquo;s palace after his death - the comparison to looting Rahvin&rsquo;s palace is striking.  I would definitely accuse Graendal.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have two problems with Graendal as the killer.  First of all, how would she know where he is exactly?  And second, what motive would she have?  I really do not think killing off Asmodean would be enough to merit being named Nae&rsquo;blis.  But I agree that the chill Asmodean feels is the result of someone channeling <i>saidar</i>.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: It Wasn&rsquo;t Lanfear
body:
<p>We think it implausible that Lanfear would be the killer.  She loved Lews Therin therefore, why would she prevent the new Kinslayer from reaching his potential?  She also offered Rand once to take him to one of the male Forsaken and have him taught to be as powerful as he could be. We don't think it was Lanfear.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Why would Lanfear not want Rand to reach his potential?  Simple - because this time around she wanted to be the more powerful.  "You think you can break up with me and go with three other women, huh?"  A relatively ignorant Dragon Reborn would be easier to control and manipulate than the original Lord of the Morning.  Remember, Lanfear might have been a little obsessed and nutty, but she is not stupid.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Asmodean&rsquo;s Killer
body:
<p>Asmodean&rsquo;s killer was Shaidar Haran, I believe this for many reasons.<ul><li>Rand would have felt a man channel, that removes male Forsaken.</li><li>There are many female channelers around to sense the use of <i>saidar</i>, but they were Wise Ones and the Wise Ones usually stay together, I think they would have picked up a "stray use."</li><li>Asmodean recognized his killer, all of the Forsaken have seen Shaidar, Moghedien alludes to this on her mindtrapping visit when she states (in her mind) that every trip she&rsquo;s ever made there was the same (Shaidar Haran lowering the ceiling, making her crawl, etc.) so we know that he&rsquo;s been around for some time.</li><li>Shaidar Haran&rsquo;s super-Myrddraal powers are few of the conceivable ways Asmodean was killed undetected.  (Forsaken were afraid to use the True Power), and the standard "shadow-man" gaze is the best explanation for Asmodean&rsquo;s chill, every mention of <i>saidar</i>&lsquo;s effects on men is of an itching sensation. Shaidar Haran is guilty of the murder of Asmodean.</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I hate to be difficult, but here it is.  Demandred was surprised to see Shaidar Haran in the beginning of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, so I doubt he had been around for a very long time.  Also, do you think one of the Forsaken would be afraid of a Myrddraal&rsquo;s eyeless gaze?  My biggest problem, of course, is Jordan&rsquo;s assertion that we knew everything necessary up through <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> , and Shaidar Haran did not appear until <i>Lord of Chaos</i>.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Fain&rsquo;s Your Man
body:
<p>I wonder if anyone else has considered Padan Fain as the culprit? He shows up later very near the Waste, wasn&rsquo;t written of long before then, cannot use the True Source or the One Power, has no love of Rand or anyone who would willingly or unwillingly aid him. He would be known to Asmodean as the bitter/twisted/gifted Darkfriend set out to hunt the three ta&rsquo;veren.</p><p>He has also shown an ability to deal swiftly with things, even when still linked to the Dark One (the Eyeless, etc.) and hates the Chosen with a passion. Need any other reason? - He has found confronting Rand directly to be a might useless and has turned his hand to pricking him through friends and family etc.</p><p>One swipe of his dagger and even Asmodean is dead, and Fain is well practiced at disposing (really disposing) of dead bodies without fuss.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> How would Fain know that "Jasin Natael" was really Asmodean?  My biggest problem is the way Asmodean was killed.  His voice kind of cuts off, just like someone who has been killed with balefire.  Lastly, I do not think that Asmodean would necessarily know of Fain.  Fain, while a relatively important Darkfriend, would not automatically be known to all the Forsaken.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: A Lance for Ishy
body:
<p>I thought about Asmodean&rsquo;s killer for years, and contrary to Robert Jordan&rsquo;s quote of all the hints being there, I needed until <i>The Path of Daggers</i> to come to this conclusion.  Ishamael/Moridin is my best guess.</p><p>Pro: The most likely method of murder it the True Source (undetectable by all the channelers around, easy to get rid of the body). Ishamael is the only of the Forsaken who likes to use the True Source. (Though I would admit there&rsquo;s the possibility it was any for them.)</p><p>Con: Ishamael is dead before, Moridin doesn&rsquo;t appear till after <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>. How would Asmodean recognize Moridin?</p><p>Pro: There are hints that Ishamael isn&rsquo;t finished before Asmodean&rsquo;s death. I think also that Asmodean recognized him by the saa, the one feature Ishamael and Moridin share, and which are very rare.</p><p>Con: Where&rsquo;s the motive? Where did he get the information?</p><p>Pro: Well Ishamael/Moridin is the Forsaken working directly for the Dark One. He&rsquo;s most likely to have access to any information from Darkfriends. On the other hand has the Dark One special plans with Rand. Too much information gained by Rand can only hinder those plans.</p><p>To be honest I'm not too convinced by this theory myself, but I would like to see it discussed...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Just a thought...  Had the True Source ever appeared before <i>Lord of Chaos</i>?  If not, Jordan&rsquo;s comments would seem to indicate that the True Source could not be the "murder weapon" since everything we need to know was available up through <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>.  I dislike using the True Source to explain away everything I cannot understand, but sometimes it seems to be the only explanation.  I still think Asmodean was killed with <i>saidar</i>, though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Graendal For Certain
body:
<p>This was puzzled out by others, so I take no credit.</p><p>It was definitely Graendal; and all of the clues are in the last few chapters of <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>.</p><p>When Moghedien is battling Nynaeve, she practically spills out the fact that Rahvin is expecting an attack, and he, along with Graendal are going to surprise him. Moghedien goes on to say something about Lanfear "plays a different game."</p><p>Fast-forward to Rand. Rahvin is not a good dreamer (this was mentioned previously), so why would he choose to fight in the World of Dreams? Because he has traps set and he is depending on Graendal&rsquo;s help. Keep in mind that Rand walks by the pond pursuing Rahvin, and is attacked by fish. Later Rahvin is balefired (thus Mat and Aviendha are back), but Nynaeve still has to Heal Rand of the fish bites. Why? Because Graendal was responsible for the bites, else they would have disappeared with the balefire.</p><p>Fast-forward one hour to Asmodean. He is lounging by the "same" pond in the real world. He feels a chill (Graendal opening a gateway) and enters a nearby door which opens into a hallway. (The same door Graendal lurked in the World of Dreams to attack Rand). Graendal recognizes Asmodean and kills him on the spot.</p><p>Why didn&rsquo;t Graendal just go back to Arad Doman? Well, she had to feel Nynaeve&rsquo;s fire, and feared to leave right away (she may have thought it was Lanfear helping the cause). Or she may have seen Moghedien, and knowing her prowess in the World of Dreams, decided it was too risky to leave a trail for the spider to follow her to her lair. Fearing to channel, she waits about an hour, memorizes the spot, Travels to the real world. She spots Asmodean, kills him, and makes a gateway back to Arad Doman.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Why have I never heard anyone talk about the fish bites before???  Grrr...  You realize that now I have to reread that section of the book, then probably rewrite entire sections of this site to clean up this mess...  Seriously, thanks for posting this, it is a HUGE piece of evidence that Graendal did it.  And I really liked Lanfear as the killer...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Asmodean Was NOT Killed By Balefire
body:
<p>People often refer to the Dark One's comment to Demandred relating Asmodean to Rahvin and Be'lal (a the beginning of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>). However, I think this is misconstrued. Whilst Asmodean was killed nigh on instantly, he was not killed with balefire. The Dark One did not mean he was unable to resurrect him , only unwilling. Why? Because he was a traitor and a weakling. Of all the Forsaken he was the most reluctant, and achieved the least, as well as being the weakest in the Power (though the last I doubt is really an important consideration; Asmodean's problem is that he forever doubted what he did - he would be every bit as effective as the others if he embraced the Shadow rather than kept it at arms length). Rather than being beyond his reach, the Dark One simply sees no reason to waste his effort.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Not to disagree, but...  Well, I guess I will disagree.  What convinces me that Asmodean was killed with balefire is how Jordan describes it.  Compare that to the way earlier characters (Be&rsquo;lal comes to mind) have died when they were balefired.  To me, the descriptions are too similar to dismiss.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Lews Therin Killed Him!
body:
<p>Okay, I know that there are many people out there who believe that Asmodean was killed by Lanfear or Moridin.  My belief is one that is mildly supported, but not heavily. I believe that Asmodean was killed by Lews Therin. This belief stems from one of the books describing Lews Therin as death. I do not remember which book it was that had that in it, but I am sure it was there.</p><p>This would be a very good way for Robert Jordan to hide the identity of the killer by making it something so minuscule as that. I believe that Lews Therin had a very good motive for killing Asmodean. Believe it or not, I think that Lews Therin killed him because he was teaching Rand far more than he wanted him to know. This may sound a little odd, but I believe that Lews Therin doesn't want Rand to destroy the Dark One once and for all. HE WON'T BE REBORN AGAIN IF THAT HAPPENS. At least that is what I think. Since the Wheel of Time revolves around rebirth and doing things repetitively, then what would happen if the Wheel were somehow destroyed? Things would then happen differently. This would cause Lews Therin to never be reborn again, and I believe that he knows this. That is why he killed Asmodean. I also think that he killed Fel, but that is another theory for another time.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have heard theories that it was Lews Therin who killed Asmodean, but never with a motive like this...  Somehow I doubt Lews Therin wants to be reborn again.  His life was rough enough - it seems to me the soul of Lews Therin would like nothing better than a well-deserved rest.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Re: Lews Therin Killed Him!
body:
<p>This is more of a rebuttal of Highroller&rsquo;s theory "Lews Therin Killed Him!" than a theory of my own. I myself wouldn't count Lews Therin out, but your motive is flawed. All sources indicate that if the Dark One wins the Last Battle, he will break the Wheel and slay the Serpent, thus ending all cycles and Ages, not to mention ALL REBIRTHS. I'm sure everyone remembers the story the Tinkers had about the dying Maiden, saying how Sightblinder means to blind the Eye of the World, and slay the Great Serpent, etc. Also, my own feeling is that when the Last Battle is over, and the Dark One has been defeated and his prison made anew, it will only be six Ages until another Bore is drilled, and the whole thing starts over again, until at the end of the following Age, the Dragon is born again, and defeats the Dark One again. This cycle will always continue, unless the Dark One really does win the Last Battle, in which case he will indeed break the Wheel of Time, and remake time, and the world, in his image. So, basically, if Lews Therin has any desire to be reborn, or even if he doesn't, it would still behoove him to help Rand kick the snot out of the Dark One, since all is lost for good if he doesn't. I guess I've kinda gotten side tracked, but that's why Highroller&rsquo;s idea is flawed. I still have no idea who really did kill Asmodean, and for all I know Rand/Lews Therin might have, but just not for the reasons Highroller thinks.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Good call, I had not really looked at it that way.  But you are certainly correct - if the Dark One wins, you can pretty much bet most people are not going to be reborn again.  I think the Dark One might bring Lews Therin back from the grave, but I do not think it would be a rebirth Lews Therin would welcome...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Re: Asmodean Was NOT Killed by Balefire
body:
<p>Although I would tend to agree with wotmania on this point (that Asmodean got balefired) there are a few potential repercussions to think on if he wasn't. First of all, he'd probably be in a cour'souvra somewhere. And, taking into account his tendency to change his allegiance at the drop of a hat, the Dark One may not be too inclined to spin him out again. He may, however, have been given a Last Chance. And given the Dark One's obvious fascination with gender-bending the Chosen...  Could Asmodean be Cyndane?</p><p>I admit it's unlikely, it's just an odd idea that took my fancy.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> When Cyndane was first introduced, I know quite a few people were thinking that possibly that was Asmodean (assuming he was not killed with balefire).  The biggest argument against this, though, is that Graendal was able to sense how strong in the Power Cyndane was - a sure sign Cyndane uses <i>saidar</i>.  And we already learned from Aran'gar that it is the soul of the body which determines what half of the One Power someone wields.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Taim Done It
body:
<p>I don't think I've seen anyone suggest this yet, so I thought I would throw it out there and see what people make of it.  I think Taim may have killed Asmodean.  Let's look at the evidence:<ol><li>We are supposed to have enough information to determine the killer in the first five books.</li><li>Jordan has said that he thought the identity of the killer was obvious.</li><li>Jordan has also said that very few of the letters he gets are correct about who killed Asmodean.</li></ol>I think the killer had to be someone who can channel because of how quickly Asmodean died.  Padan Fain would have been a candidate, but the Shadar Logoth dagger and the other ways we have seen Fain kill are too slow.</p><p>From 1 and 2 above, I'm going to assume that Semirhage, Mesaana, and Demandred are ruled out.  We haven't seen them at all through the first five books, and it could hardly be obvious that one of them did it.  Aginor, Balthamel, Be'lal, Ishamael, and Rahvin are certainly dead when Asmodean died, and I think Lanfear was either dead or in Finnland at the time. Moghedien is either under the influence of Nynaeve's potion or wearing the <i>a'dam</i>.  This leaves Graendal or Sammael to do the deed.  There's a Sammael point of view in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> where he doesn't seem to know what happened to Asmodean, and I don't think Sammael would have been wandering the palace in Caemlyn anyway.  Of the Forsaken, only Graendal seems to be a good candidate, and this conclusion comes more from a process of elimination than anything else (doesn't fit the obviousness criteria in my mind).  The two favorites for the killer seem to be Lanfear and Graendal, so I think if one of them had done it, Jordan wouldn't have said 3, above.</p><p>Some people have suggested that the killer must be a woman, because Rand would have sensed someone channeling <i>saidin</i>, and it has been suggested that the reason Asmodean shivers just before he is killed is that someone is channeling <i>saidar</i> nearby.  I think if the shivers were caused by <i>saidar</i>, Asmodean would have known immediately what was going on.  We have seen in the past that the male Forsaken know when women are channeling, and they've had a long time to get used to the feeling.  As to Rand sensing <i>saidin</i> being channeled nearby, we don't know how far away Rand is when Asmodean is killed, and we don't really know how far away he can sense someone using <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>I've never heard Taim suggested as the killer, but there is a clue that points to him.  What's more, I think this hint may have been why Jordan said it's obvious who the killer is.  In the scene immediately before Asmodean dies, Bashere shows up in Caemlyn, introduces himself to Rand, and says that he's chasing Taim.  This means Taim is somewhere in Andor, if not Caemlyn itself.  Taim is certainly strong enough to have taken care of Asmodean, especially in his weakened state, so that's not a problem.</p><p>This theory has one interesting side effect:  If Taim is the killer, then he cannot be Demandred, at least not when he kills Asmodean. (Do I get bonus points for that? :) At the beginning of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, there is a Demandred point of view where it is made very clear that he doesn't know what happened to Asmodean.  I suppose that Taim could be replaced between the murder and his appearance in <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, but I don't think it's very likely.</p><p>And now for the problem with this theory:  Why would Asmodean recognize Taim, and if he did, why would he be so scared?  I have to admit I don't really have a good answer for this one.  Maybe somebody else can help me out?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> That is pretty much my problem with this concept, too - I cannot understand how Asmodean would recognize Taim.  Also, how would Taim know where Asmodean is?  I also think there is a possibility that Asmodean would not have recognized that a woman was channeling nearby - he was a bit preoccupied at the time with having been brought back from the dead...  I definitely like the side effect of Taim not being Demandred!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Asmodean Lives - As Dashiva
body:
<p>There are many theories floating around about whether he is dead or not.  The quote "death took him" or such, I believe is a vital piece of evidence to his whereabouts.  Now, let's look at the word "death."  I propose the following: Moridin in the Old Tongue means "death," so the above quote could mean that he was taken, alive, by Moridin (Ishamael). The surprise registered by Asmodean when he saw his attacker shows that he knew this person.  Perhaps Moridin used a mask to make himself look like Ishamael?  It can also be noted that Moridin is a keen user of the True Power, which explains why Rand never felt any channeling.  So I believe that he is alive as one of Moridin's pet Forsaken.</p><p>Who?</p><p>The answer to that, I believe, is Dashiva.</p><p>We know that Rand cut Asmodean's direct connection to the Dark One. He therefore must be feeling the effects of the taint on <i>saidin</i>.  He would also be feeling the effects of the taint far more than your average run-of-the mill Ash'aman because he has channeled a clean source for more than 3000 years.  I'm running out of time, so ill just surmise the following points...</p><p>He is awkward with the sword, as Rand notes Jasin Natael hardly knows how to use his sword when they raided Caemlyn.  The same has been noticed about Dashiva.</p><p>Rand picks him out supposedly at random when he was with Taim. Egwene and Elayne feel a close kinship to all females who can channel (Aviendha, Jolin). So perhaps being with Asmodean for a long time in the Waste made Rand subconsciously aware of his presence, hence picking Dashiva out at random.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is one theory I have trouble believing...  First off, I do not think any of the Forsaken (or the Dark One) would ever trust Asmodean.  I seem to remember someone (maybe Lanfear?) saying the other Forsaken thought he had managed to cut his tie to the Dark One on purpose and side with Rand.  I have trouble believing Moridin as the killer (or kidnapper, in this case) because Jordan said we had all the necessary information by the end of <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> - Moridin was not introduced until <i>Lord of Chaos</i>.  Finally, I do not recall any kind of affinity between men who can channel which can be compared to women who can channel...  In any event, I have come to like Graendal as Asmodean's killer...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: A Point Against Graendal
body:
<p>Jeremie bases most of his theory on the fish bites that Nynaeve must Heal for Rand.  I have a point against that theory.</p><p>In <i>Lord of Chaos</i> Egwene travels to Salidar through Tel'aran'rhiod.  Once in Tel'aran'rhiod she uses her control of her environment to temporarily Heal her wounds.  The Healing wears off after she leaves the World of Dreams.  Thus a person's thoughts can control any injuries they might have.</p><p>In <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> Moiraine says to Rand that when something is destroyed by balefire, it ceases to exist before it was hit, but the memories remain.</p><p>Put these two facts together and we come to the crux of the matter.</p><p>Rand remains in Tel'aran'rhiod from the time when someone sics the piranhas on him until the time when Nynaeve heals him.  Therefore after Rahvin is killed Rand remembers being bitten and remembers the pain of his wounds, so he retains the wounds while still in Tel'aran'rhiod.</p><p>However, if he were to return to the real palace in Caemlyn, his wounds would disappear.</p><p>Now, you might be thinking, "But Nynaeve Healed him."  Thinking logically, when Nynaeve Heals Rand he believes that all his wounds but the old wound in his side will be Healed.  She believes likewise and so the wounds disappear.  Thus he notices nothing when he returns to the real Caemlyn.</p><p>Thus Rahvin could have inflicted the fish-bite wounds on Rand and still have caused Rand to still "require" Healing.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The key difference between these two cases is this...  Rand and Egwene were both in Tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh.  Egwene eased some hurts she had through her control of the World of Dreams.  Rand was Healed by Nynaeve while in Tel'aran'rhiod - he was not healed through someone's control of Tel'aran'rhiod.  That is why Egwene's healing only lasted until she exited the dream, and Rand's lasted after he exited the World of Dreams.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Who Killed Asmodean
body:
<p>I personally believe it was Padan Fain who killed Asmodean. I have read the theories that it was Graendal who killed him using balefire and I don't believe it for several reasons.<ul><li>If she used balefire it would have been noticed by every female channeler who was close by. When balefire has been used by someone it is often mentioned by another channeler that they sensed the use of <i>saidar</i> at quite a distance. I think it is unlikely that none of the Wise Ones who could channel would fail to notice it since there is no indication there is any other channeling going on at the time.</li><li>In <i>Lord of Chaos</i> Graendal states that if al'Thor found her she would flee.  Are we really to believe she would hang about in the palace for any reason?</li><li>Given the time lag between Asmodean entering the room/passageway it seems just as likely she could shield him or use Compulsion since it would be a lot less likely to attract attention to herself than balefire.</li></ul>Now for the reasons for it being Padan Fain.<ul><li>It has been stated that Asmodean would not recognize Fain since he was a minor Darkfriend who was around before he was released. That is true but it is likely he would recognize Mordeth. The evidence for this is as follows in <i>The Eye of the World</i> Moiraine instantly recognize the evil of the dagger and more importantly so do Aginor and Balthamel. This implies that anyone male or female who can channel can detect the evil of Mordeth if he wants to.</li><li>Padan Fain was on his way to Caemlyn in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> and was there by <i>Lord of Chaos</i>. Also in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> he knew people who worked in the palace implying he had access.</li><li>Asmodean was killed simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and also Mordeth/Fain hates all forsaken so would kill him on site if he had the chance.</li></ul>What I believe happened is this. Fain was in the palace talking to one of the Darkfriends who works there (just inside a minor entrance so he won't be spotted). Asmodean comes along looking for a drink. He walks into the same entrance, he notices the evil of the dagger, and he stops since he knows what it means. He would be in terror so the blood would drain from his face. Fain then covers his mouth as he stabs him. This would account for Asmodean's last words since Asmodean would not know Fain's name if it was a Forsaken.  I would think he would shout the name out and Fain would want to cover his mouth as he stabs him to reduce the chance of attention being drawn to himself. Fain then disposes of the body somewhere. This explanation fits the facts as well as any other.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have a problem or two with this particular idea...  First off, I do not think that balefire in itself is enough to draw the attention of a channeler - it is more the amount of the One Power being channeled.  It would seem to me more Power would be required for Compulsion or a shield.  Also, I doubt that Asmodean would recognize Mordeth - he had been asleep for a long time before Mordeth appeared in Aridhol...  I have really come to like Graendal as Asmodean's killer - to me she makes more sense than anyone else.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Why Graendal Did It
body:
<p>First of all, I want to say that I came up with this theory on my own, before finding this site. After I posted my theory on another board I was informed of this site and thought I would submit it here as well. Many people have come up with this same answer, so I won't claim orginiality, but I hope to cover it thoroughly.</p><p>I was re-reading <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> and I had to ask a question. When I figured out the answer, Asmodean's killer leaped out of the book and bit me. This theory will answer eight requirements needed to be the killer.<ol><li>Means (how it was done)</li><li>Motive (why)</li><li>Opportunity (had to be in Caemlyn at the time or have a way of getting there.)</li><li>Recognized by Asmodean (and scared him)</li><li>Disposed of the body</li><li>Knows Asmodean's fate</li><li>The reason the death is kept secret. (why doesn't Jordan reveal it?)</li><li>Be "obvious" (as per Robert Jordan)</li></ol>I will not spend a lot of time on people that it can't be, but concentrate on just a few suspects.</p><p>The item that caught my attention was, Nynaeve having to Heal Rand after balefiring Rahvin. Why did she have to Heal him if everything that Rahvin did was undone when he balefired him? We know that things prior to Rand being hurt were undone (Asmodean's, Mat's and Aviendha's deaths), so why weren't Rand'swounds undone?</p><p>I then realized I was making an assumption. I assumed that Rahvin caused the wounds. But what if another Forsaken was with Rahvin in dreamland? Someone who wanted to slip in a bit of help, but didn't want to be noticed in case of failure? Suddenly things made perfect sense. If this Forsaken was successful, he or she could claim credit for Rand's death and only Rahvin could say otherwise. If he or she failed, then no one would know he or she was there at all.</p><p>The list of suspects are short and I will limit it to those that we have previously seen in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. Up to that point we had only seen Moghedien, Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael, and Graendal in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. We know that all of them could be there, but some were more powerful thanothers. Moghedien and Rahvin are out because we know where they were at the time of Asmodean's death. Lanfear may or may not be dead, but the style of attack doesn't fit her. And she was very accomplished in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. She would have been able to kill him. But the fish and the water were dispersed by Rand, so the Forsaken could not have been too strong in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. That leavesSammael and Graendal.</p><p>We also know from <i>Lord of Chaos</i> [Chapter 6, "Threads of Woven Shadow", 133-134] that Graendaltries to convince Sammael that Rand killed Asmodean and Lanfear. We also know that, as per Moghedien, Graendal was supposed to be with Rahvin in setting the trap for Rand at Sammael's place.</p><p>In brief, my theory goes like this: Rahvin and Graendal were together when Rand tripped Rahvin's wards in Caemlyn. They Travel together to Caemlyn. Rahvin is felt, and Rand storms after him into <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. Graendal tries to slip in some extra help but doesn't want to be noticed. (Afraid for her life.) Rand balefires Rahvin and Graendal decides to stay real low for a while, not wanting to be noticed by anyone, including the Aes Sedai. Asmodean, looking for wine, accidently finds her hiding spot and Graendal kills him to keep him from telling Rand.</p><p>This satisfies all 8 requirements of the killer:<ol><li>Means: The One Power. Killed quickly and quietly.</li><li>Motive: To prevent Rand from discovering she was there and chasing her.</li><li>Opportunity: She was there as part of Rahvin's plots, helping him. Moghedien said she would be with him.</li><li>Be recognized: Asmodean would have known her and been afraid of her.</li><li>Dispose of the body: The One Power could easily do it.</li><li>Must know Asmodean's fate: She tried to convince Sammael of it.</li><li>Reason it is kept secret: She is careful. She doesn't want Rand to learn she was there. She is afraid of him and doesn't want to be a target.</li><li>Be "obvious": Once you realize that someone was in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> helping Rahvin, it becomes obvious who it must have been.</li></ol>Did she use balefire? Maybe. There are certainly indications of it. But there are many ways to killwith the One Power that are not balefire, many of those can kill just as quickly. Stopping someone's heart for example. Causing air to crush a skull. Or even a dagger of air through the brain. That would be quick, use little Power, and be less likely to be noticed by others.</p><p>Why didn't anyone else feel her use the One Power? Perhaps they did, but did not think of it. There are many times that Wise Ones and Aes Sedai use the One Power for minor things. Someone heating bath water would be completely ignored. Remember that in the Tower, Siuan didn't feel herself being shielded, didn't notice the One Power being used to take over the Tower. She dismissed channeling because everyone did it all the time. There were now several women who could channel there, many who did not know eachother. Everyone might have felt unfamiliar weaves and assumed it was another group doing some small chore.</p><p>Why not use Compulsion? Perhaps there was no time to set it up. Remember that in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>, Graendal has a weave ready to be used and activates it to hit Cyndane and Moghedien. She also thinks that they will be unhappy with her for her brief use of Compulsion. She is truly scared, having just seen Rand kill Rahvin and seeing Moghedien captured and helping Rand. Compulsion can be broken (Nynaeve broke Moghedien's) and she cannot be there all the time. Once it is broken, Asmodean will surely tell Rand of it, and she will be hunted by him. She does not know of the shield around Asmodean (none of the Wise Ones ever even noticed any kinds of weaves around him) and thinks that he is a traitor that deserves worse than death.</p><p>This theory also explains how the Dark One knew to send Aran'gar to Salidar to free Moghedien. Graendal sees Moghedien as a prisoner of Nynaeve. After killing Asmodean she makes her way to the Dark One and reports. Shaidar Haran is not there at the time. (She doesn't recognize him in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.) The next day, Demandred visits the Dark One. (He said that many things happened yesterday.") Demandred is slightly surprised that the Dark One knows more about Asmodean's death thanhe does, but of course would never think to question the Dark One. This may be one of several reasons that a woman's body was used for Aran'gar. The Dark One knew that a "woman" who could channel under their very noses without them suspecting a thing would be very useful. Aran'gar is then sent to free Moghedien and keep an eye on those powerful enough to capture a Forsaken. Aran'gar's "headaches" may even be something that will help prepare Egwene for when they try to turn her to the Dark One. Certainly the Dark One would want someone strong enough to capture one of his CHOSEN to be turned to his side.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now that is certainly a theory!  I have long since been converted from "Lanfear did it!" to "Graendal did it!"  This theory does an excellent job of explaining why Graendal is definitely the most likely person to have killed Asmodean.  There is not much more to say here, so now I will just be quiet...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Fel&rsquo;s Death
body:
<p>Since Rand was having Fel research the seals on the Dark One's Prison it most likely is an indication that he found out something vital, such as a way to strengthen them (the seals), what is causing the cuendillar disks to break, or how the Bore was sealed in the Age of Legends. The information has to be important to send a Gholam, a nasty wild card I doubt the Forsaken would use frivolously.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I agree that Fel must have found something vital about the seals.  Perhaps it was that they were in some way related to the taint on <i>saidin</i>, but that&rsquo;s another theory...  Fel seemed to indicate at one point (I think) that the Bore could not be resealed, but would need to be remade from scratch.  If Fel was close to a way to seal the Dark One away for good, that would certainly be reason enough to send a Gholam after him.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Why Rob thinks Fel was killed...
body:
<p>This is a short one, but I think Fel was killed because he stumbled across a piece of great knowledge that the Dark One didn&rsquo;t want anyone to know...  How to cleanse <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>Whatcha think?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Certainly the Dark One would not want all the good guys to figure out how to cleanse <i>saidin</i>.  Fel&rsquo;s death, to me anyway, means that he discovered either a way to cleanse <i>saidin</i> or how to reseal/remake the Dark One&rsquo;s prison - or maybe some combination of the two.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Fel&rsquo;s Death
body:
<p>At the time of his death Fel was researching the seals and the taint on <i>saidin</i>.  So obviously he must have found out something about them the dark one didn&rsquo;t like.  I believe that he found out that the seals were actually the center of the problem with the taint.  I believe he realized that to cleanse <i>saidin</i> you would have to first break the seals.  If I remember correctly Fel also left a message before he died that said something about breaking the seals, but I might be mistaken.  This seal theory would also explain why Lews Therin wanted to break the seals whenever Rand saw them.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Yup.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Who Killed Fel
body:
<p>It is obvious that Fel found out how to cleanse the taint, in breaking the seals.  This would definitely be something that the Great Lord would not want accomplished so he must have this man killed.  But who would understand the knowledge that Fel had learned and kill him?  Moridin of course.  Being Ishamael reborn and knowing that Ishy was a philosopher, having his champ take out this upstart would be perfect.  But this would mean that Moridin has access to a <i>gholam</i>, which we know that Sammael had in Ebou Dar.  Now Moridin has one too, and it was last sighted in Caemlyn.  Rand had better watch his back.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have to agree with all that.  With <i>gholam</i> running around I have to ask - why hasn&rsquo;t one come after Rand yet?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: What Fel Knew And Who Had Him Killed
body:
<p>If you will read <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, Chapter 18 ("A Taste of Solitude"), Fel was talking to Rand about the seals.  Fel made the comment that he believed the Dragon Reborn was the one to remake the prison whole again for the Ages to come.  His letter said, "Belief and order will give you strength. HAVE TO CLEAR RUBBLE BEFORE YOU REBUILD!"  Well, I added the caps, but Fel knew that the prison had to be remade, not merely sealed, and this time the Dark One could be sealed forever.  The Dark One wouldn&rsquo;t like that at all; it would not even give him a chance to break free in the Ages to come like he had done in the past, dooming the Dark One to failure.  And who always talks about the Dragon and "Ba&rsquo;alzamon" fighting thousands of times?  That's right. Elan Morin Tedronai, our old friend Ishamael, or now known as Moridin.  His state of being half-caught between the world and the Pit of Doom for three thousand years allowed him to enter the world, so the Dark One transformed him into a "shadow" of the Dark One, with some of his power, but it left Ishamael only half-human.  He could have retained some of the Dark One&rsquo;s memories of past failures and knew fully the consequences if Fel&rsquo;s plan reached Rand.  It would be finally over between Ishamael and Lews Therin Telamon forever and Ishamael would be the loser. Therefore he used his "wild card" <i>gholam</i> to kill Fel.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Fel was definitely on to what Rand needed to do to win Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, and Ishamael certainly would not like such a defeat...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: This May Seem Crazy
body:
<p>In short Fel was killed because he figured out that the seals somehow kept <i>saidin</i> tainted.  Bear with me here.<ul><li><i>Saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i> are said to be two halves of the same source (look in the Wheel of Time book) and ask yourself how the Dark One managed to taint only <i>saidin</i> without any effect on <i>saidar</i> .  Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions were all men.  If the Dark One tainted the <i>saidin</i> where ever men draw it from perhaps the seals impose some sort of stasis on the taint.</li><li>Lews Therin is always going on about breaking the seals.  Are we sure that he&rsquo;s crazy? Sure he&rsquo;s grieving over having killed his wife and I doubt that anyone could behave rationally trapped in another person&rsquo;s body, but has it affected his reasoning and he has had a lot of time to think.</li><li>Fel also says that he must break the seals before he can begin again.</li></ul>Also is Rand not going to try to cleanse <i>saidin</i>, in <i>The Path of Daggers</i> he is disappointed when he finds out that Callandor is flawed and is afraid of using the Power of the statue in Cairhien. I mean what else could he use all that <i>saidin</i> for?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think Lews Therin, or Ishamael/Moridin, are half as crazy as they sometimes seem to be.  These were extremely intelligent men back in the Age of Legends.  It might just take them a while to adjust to their new surroundings.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Clearing Up The Rubble
body:
<p>I believe that Herid Fel was murdered because he was researching and investigating the nature of the Dark One&rsquo;s prison.  Herid had at least three discussions with Rand on this subject.  After their last meeting, the last time Fel made contact with Rand, Fel sent him a note:<blockquote>"Belief and order give strength.  Have to clear rubble before you can build.Will explain when see you next.  Do not bring girl. Too pretty."</blockquote>"Belief and order give strength" is still confusing me, but I believe it has something to do with the Asha&rsquo;man. The second line however, is quite clear to me.  "Have to clear rubble before you can build."  Before Rand can place a new shield on the Dark One's prison, he has to get rid of the patch on the bore.  This would explain Lews Therin's wild ravings "break the seals, break the seals."  Someone found out that Herid was figuring out the key to winning Tarmon Ga&rsquo;idon.  So, they sent a <i>gholam</i> to kill him.</p><p>It&rsquo;s easy to see why Fel was killed, but how someone found out about his private discussions with Rand is somewhat of a question.  I went through all of Rand&rsquo;s meetings with Fel in order to discover who could have possibly heard what they were talking about.  Finally, I discovered that during one of his meetings, Jalani and Dedric, his Aiel guard, stood guard just outside Fel&rsquo;s study during their discussion.  It is highly possible that one of them is a Darkfriend, and overheard their discussion involving the seals.  Then, he or she send word to his or her superiors informing them of Fel&rsquo;s knowledge.</p><p>The end of the line was probably Shaidar Haran (Read my theory on him if you haven&rsquo;t already).  I doubt that any of the Forsaken truly understand the nature of the prison that they were formerly held in.  This would, however, suggest that there is more than one <i>gholam</i> loose in the world.</p><p>In the <i>A Crown of Swords</i> chapter "Diamonds and Stars," Rand and Min try vainly to come up with why Fel was killed.  However, remember that Min kept the note that has the truth hidden in it.  When I first read <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, I thought that it was pointless, but now I know that nothing Robert Jordan includes is pointless.  I believe that Min may suddenly relize the truth, perhaps from overhearing Rand mumbling "break the seals, break the seals."  The question remains.  How is Rand al&rsquo;Thor going to reseal the Dark One's prison.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Good theory.  I also like your idea of how the Dark One discovered what it was Fel was thinking of.  The idea of Min figuring out how to cure the taint is an interesting one.  How Rand will reseal the prison is certainly a good question.  Good work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Fel&rsquo;s Death and the Seals
body:
<p>It seems certain that Fel was killed because of his findings about the Dark One&rsquo;s prison and the seals. Remember that the taint on <i>saidin</i> occurred from the Dark One&rsquo;s counterstroke at the moment of sealing.</p><p>What if the taint is actually caused by the Dark One&rsquo;s power leaking through the seals as some people have theorized? Breaking them would not only release the Dark One but also remove the taint thus <i>saidin</i> would be cleansed. This may also explain the instant madness suffered by the Hundred Companions - they were in direct contact with <i>saidin</i> and the seals at the moment the counterstroke occurred thus suffered the full force of the counterstroke.</p><p>Since then, perhaps the seals have acted as a conduit for the Dark One&rsquo;s taint to leak into <i>saidin</i>, ensuring that it&rsquo;s ever-present. This may explain why they are crumbling and why the eroded unbroken seals give off an evil aura - this disappears when the seals break.</p><p>As far as these already broken seals go, it&rsquo;s been thousands of years since <i>saidin</i> has been used in such large quantities; surely the huge upsurge in male channeling could be causing strain on the seals themselves as more of the Dark One&rsquo;s power seeps through them to taint <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>The statue ter&rsquo;angreal which channels huge amounts of <i>saidin</i> could enable the user to destroy the seals and immediately have access to pure, untainted <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>To relate this to Fel...  Well, if Rand found this out together perhaps with knowledge perhaps found by Fel&rsquo;s of how to rebuild a new prison for the Dark One he could gain a huge upper hand in the Last Battle.</p><p>I think that Fel realized the mistake Lews Therin Telamon and the Hundred Companions made in patching the Bore rather than uniting with female channelers to seal it permanently; after all it was Mierin and Beidomon together who opened the Bore in the first place - surely then both males and females must seal it back up? Enter the other statue ter&rsquo;angreal. What if Lanfear turns to the Light and unites with Rand and together they reseal the prison - just a thought!</p><p>Someone like Ishamael or Shadar Haran would like to get rid of Fel so that the seals break out of Rand&rsquo;s "control" leaving him lacking knowledge when Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don comes along. My money would be on Shadar Haran who seems to have the guiding hand on the Dark One&rsquo;s stratagems.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is an interesting idea that the sudden influx of male channelers is actually straining the seals, causing them to crumble apart.  I do not believe I have ever seen that before.  Of course, Lews Therin and company did not just ditch the female Aes Sedai - it was a conscious decision by the women not to cooperate.  The men did the best they could with what they had.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: To Destroy the Dark One
body:
<p>It seems obvious to everyone that Fel was on to something with the seals and Tarmon Gai'don, since the breaking of the seals was the last question Rand asks on his first visit to Fel seen by us.  Fel must have run with it and found out something.</p><p>But, everyone is missing the fact that Fel also had intimate knowledge of the Wheel and the Pattern (<i>Lord of Chaos</i>, Chapter 18, p 298-299).  He actually speaks of the different Ages, and the sealing of the Bore: "It can&rsquo;t be the Last Battle.  Even if the Dragon Reborn seals the Dark One&rsquo;s prison again AS WELL AS THE CREATOR MADE IT [emphasis mine].  Which I don&rsquo;t think he can do."  If we combine this with the discussion of the Ages and the note ("Have to clear rubble before you can build."), we get a very interesting picture.</p><p>Imagine this: Fel seems to know more about the turning of the Wheel than anyone so far.  He understands the Pattern of Ages and the fact that the next time the Third Age comes, it must mimic the prior Third Age.  Also, he understands that if the Dark One breaks free, he will destroy the Wheel and recreate time in his own image.</p><p>Here&rsquo;s the point.  Fel must have been on to more than just how to cleanse the taint or reseal the Bore (Rand could and is probably figuring those things out from many sources, including Lews Therin Telamon&rsquo;s thoughts).  So, why is it so important that he be dead that the Dark One would send a <i>gholam</i> (no chance of failure)?  He must have discovered how to utterly DESTROY the Dark One.  Not just reseal him (since the Dragon Reborn can&rsquo;t do that - see above!).  Maybe he got thinking about breaking the seals, thus setting the Dark One free.  Then Rand can strike a fatal blow to the Dark One, and the world NEVER has to worry about him again.  This, of course, would be terrifying to the Dark One, and he would immediately dispose of any possibility of Fel talking (hence, Idrien finding his limbs piled next to the desk).  Nothing else really seems to do justice to all of Fel&rsquo;s ideas or his cause of death (being quartered by a <i>gholam</i>).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmm...  If Fel thought Rand was incapable of resealing the hole in the Dark One's prison, why would he think him capable of killing the Dark One?  Obviously, though, Fel must have discovered more than the fact that breaking the seals would cleanse <i>saidin</i> - I think the Dark One would consider that a fair trade.  Fel must have discovered something big, and if he figured out a way to kill the Dark One, that would certainly merit sending a <i>gholam</i> after him.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Fel&rsquo;s Last Theorem
body:
<p>Okay...  I'm gonna come out of left field here, but has anyone considered the idea that other parts of Fel's message to Rand have some sort of ulterior meaning? "Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."</p><p>In order of appearance:</p><p>Belief and order give strength: As Dragonlord mentioned earlier, this seems to have to do with the Asha'man. More specifically, I think that the idea of belief is for the Asha'man to believe in themselves, in Rand, and in the Light. The last thing we need is for a few blackcoats to suddenly decide that the Shadow is a good alternative. The notion of order giving strength is more puzzling - this may refer to the fact that a more effective seal could be made by the use of <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>. As we know, this wasn't possible in the Age of Legends due to the intervention of Latra Posae and and hence the eventual Fateful Concord. This time around, with female channelers like Nynaeve and Elayne being as strong as any female Aes Sedai in the Age Of Legends, things could be done differently.</p><p>Have to clear rubble before you can build: This has been discussed at length, and I suppose the idea that the seals need to be broken before anything better can be put in place. At this stage, I'm inclined to believe that Rand will be at Shayol Ghul with the Heroes of the Horn, a couple hundred Asha'man, and every Aes Sedai, Kinswoman, Windfinder, and Wise One he can rake up. He will break the last seal there and then, thus freeing the Dark One. And while Rand's job will be that of fighting the Dark One, the others will be trying to build a new prison while simultaneously punting Shadowspawn left and right. Taim will probably have been removed, as I really don't think he's sympathetic to Rand's cause. Logain will probably be M'Hael in his place, which is another meaning for 'clear rubble, then build.&rsquo;</p><p>I think we can dispense with 'Will explain when see you next.' That seems to just be face value.</p><p>Do not bring girl. Too pretty: Well, there's no denying that Min is pretty, but is that really what Fel meant? There are several ways to take that line - perhaps that Fel doesn't want to see Min for some reason, which suggests that she would in some way be a distraction, especially if Fel wanted Rand to do something. Alternatively, it could be a reference to not having to use <i>saidar</i> in something, only <i>saidin</i>. Maybe Fel found a seal, and he wanted Rand to use <i>saidin</i> to strengthen it somehow. After all, if anyone could puzzle out a way to do that, it would be Fel. And if Fel knew a way for Rand to strengthen the seals, or to replace one with a better seal of Fel's own devising, then I think that would be knowledge that the Shadow would kill him for.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I love trying to figure out why exactly Fel was killed...  I do not know about the first couple ideas you have, but personally I take Fel&rsquo;s word on the Min thing - he did not want her there because she distracted him too much.  I liked Fel a lot, it is a shame he had to die...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: The Two Towers
body:
<p>Fel foresaw the unification of the Black Tower and the White Tower.<blockquote>"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build."</blockquote>Someone stated that the first part is connected with the Asha'man. Well, I believe the second part is connected with them as well. With them and the White Tower. Look at Elaida's vision. I don't have the exact text with me right now, but it's something like:<blockquote>"The Black Tower will be destroyed and the Aes Sedai will walk over its ashes."</blockquote>This does not however mean that the Aes Sedai will destroy the Black Tower.</p><p>What has this got to do with everything? Well, I think that Fel found out that Rand has to reunite the Servants of All (male and female) to win the Last Battle. And he found out that both parts would have to be partially destroyed to achieve that.</p><p>The White Tower - now broken, Salidar against Elaida.</p><p>The Black Tower - while I don't believe Taim is Demandred (he's too cool to be Demandred), there is something in the <i>Winter's Heart</i> spoilers about Taim turning out to be a liar. This could perhaps signal a break-up of the Black Tower as well - some of the Asha'man go with Taim, the others join Rand.</p><p>Now if Taim decided to attack Elaida, or vice versa (Elaida - forced by the Sitters to free the captured sisters; Taim - simply wanting revenge from the Red Ajah), both fractions would probably both bleed to death, allowing another force to take total control or destroy them (clear away the rubble). That force could be Rand's Black Tower and Egwene's White Tower.</p><p>(Note: If they checked some records, they could probably find out that Lews Therin was the Tamyrlin in the Age of Legends. Now, since that probably meant as much as the Amyrlin nowadays, it would be a lot more plausible for the Salidar Aes Sedai to accept a union between Rand and Egwene).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think it is pretty reasonable to think that the Aes Sedai and Asha'man will have to be united for Rand and company to win Tarmon Gai'don.  I do not know for certain if that is what Fel was talking about (I would be more inclined to think he was talking about the Dark One's prison), but with Jordan anything is possible.  <img src="images/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Upping an Asha&rsquo;man&rsquo;s Strength
body:
<p>Logain was initially not nearly as strong as Rand. This was implied by Moiraine when she said Logain would have to direct all his strength at making sure he didn&rsquo;t get "burned to a crisp."  Except now we know he has nearly the strength of Rand.  Rand was shielded by six Sisters in the Tower embassy.  Logain was shielded by six Sisters in Salidar; and Logain was almost able to break the shield.  I would assume this jump in potential was caused by some trick of Nynaeve&rsquo;s Healing.  One possibility is that Nynaeve was able to strengthen Logain&rsquo;s ability.  The more likely scenario is that Nynaeve bridged the severing in such a way that Logain immediately reached his full potential.  This could greatly aid Rand.  Rand and the Asha&rsquo;man wouldn&rsquo;t have to wait long years before they reached their full potential.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is a very interesting idea...  Naturally, it would be a great help to Rand and the other Asha&rsquo;man if they could reach their full potential immediately.  But the Asha&rsquo;man do not like Aes Sedai, and it seems unlikely they would let a Sister gentle and then Heal them.  I do not think an Asha&rsquo;man would trust an Aes Sedai enough to Heal them after being gentled.  Rand, though, might trust Nynaeve enough to risk it and reach his full potential immediately.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: In Reference to Healing Stilling and Gentling
body:
<p>Just a quick observation...  Could it also be possible that the reason a woman cannot (at this point) Heal another woman completely from stilling, is that there is some difference (other than name) in stilling and gentling?  For example, Logain, Siuan, and Leane were are cut from their respective powers by women.  What if men are somehow cut from their powers differently then women when done so by female Aes Sedai, thus when they are Healed they can be healed more completely.  This would raise a question as to what would happen if a man is gentled by another man and then Nynaeve tried to Heal him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is an idea I have not heard before.  Maybe the difference is not how men and women Heal, but in who severed the victims.  Anything is possible.  Healing someone who has been severed is a new ability, and more will be learned about it with each case.  Perhaps before the series is over we will know what the story is.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Healing in Relation to Stilling
body:
<p>My theory is one in reference to the Healing of stilling.  When Nynaeve Healed Siuan and Leane their strengths were not even a quarter of what they once were, but when she Heals Logain his strength is just the same as it was, if not more so.  I believe that if Siuan and Leane want to be truly Healed then they must be Healed by a man, because the opposite forces of <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i> at work.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The reason Siuan and Leane were not Healed correctly is most likely either that they were Healed by a woman, or they were Healed with a weave primarily of Fire and Earth.  Perhaps to Heal a woman more Water and Air must be used?  Tough debate to settle.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: How to Heal Stilling for Men and Women
body:
<p>I&rsquo;m sorry, but Jordan made this one so surprisingly obvious that I am extremly surprised I&rsquo;m the only person who saw the snake in front of my face.  Let me start with this.  When a woman makes a gateway, she makes the two places she wants to go "similar."  When a man makes a gateway, he folds the Pattern up and bores a hole.  Now, when Nynave Healed Suian she used the same weave as she did on Logain.  One of the sisters commented that her weave was like she was "boring a hole through stone."  She didn&rsquo;t realize that you only use that weave on men.  The way to Heal a woman stilled would to close the gap by "making them similar."  Only no one realizes this. It is this reason that Suian and Leane aren&rsquo;t at full strength.  If they were to be stilled again, and their "gap" "made similar" then they would once again be at full strength.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think a lot of people (in the WoT online community) recognized that the weaves to Heal men and women are different, but this is an excellent theory about the possible solution.  The only reason nobody in Randland has thought of it so far is probably because Traveling is so new to them, they have not had time to study it yet.  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Can the Madness Be Cured
body:
<p>We all remember that Ishamael "cured" Lews insanity for a moment. But since he could do it, and he was not likely a good Healer either, can one of the now living Aes Sedai do the same. Since Nynaeve Healed Logain maybe she can cure a man driven mad by the taint. That would be a way for the Asha'man to trust the Aes Sedai and forge an alliance between the Black Tower and the White Tower. I know this is pretty weak but think about it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You are certainly correct on one point - if any Aes Sedai discovers a way to Heal any damage done by the taint, it would be an excellent start to the integration of the Black Tower and the White Tower.  I am not sure whether or not the taint can be Healed...  Personally, I think it probably cannot be Healed.  At the same time, though, I think Jordan might have one of the Aes Sedai (Nynaeve, most likely) discover a way to Heal the madness.  When the series ends I would not want to have a bunch of crazy Asha'man running around.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Healing Being Severed Block from Taint?
body:
<p>This is just a thought... Could it be possible that the bridge made by <i>saidar</i> could be a shield that protects male channelers from the taint?  Maybe it could act like the Forsakens' oaths to the Dark One and the taint would slide off.  Or, from another perspective, perhaps the taint would slowly degrade the bridge of <i>saidar</i> so that a male could never permanently be Healed (unless of course <i>saidin</i> was cleansed).  If either was possible, it would take a while before it was noticed.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is an interesting idea...  Perhaps Logain will no longer be affected by the taint?  Or perhaps his strength will slowly dissipate?  We will just have to wait and see what happens as the series progresses.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Dragons Are From Shara
body:
<p>The prophecy at the end of <i>Lord of Chaos</i> says:<blockquote>"The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.The seas rage, and the stormclouds gather unseenBeyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom.What was exalted cast down, what was cast down is raised up.Order burns to clear his path."</blockquote>What always struck me as odd in the books is that although the term "dragon"' is widely used and known throughout Randland, the actual beasts, the dragons, are never referred to and/or described. If you think about it, aren&rsquo;t dragons simply big serpents?  "Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom." In my humble opinion, when Robert Jordan says "Beyond the horizon" he means Shara, the vast stretch of land east of the Aiel Waste, and when he writes "serpents," it means dragons. Shara is the only place in Rand&rsquo;s continent that retains a certain sense of mystery.  We don&rsquo;t really know what&rsquo;s going on there except for a few peddlers&rsquo; stories and what the Aiel say about them.  I don&rsquo;t think he means the Seanchan continent when he writes "beyond the horizon."  If so, the Seanchan armies would be riding dragons to retake Rand&rsquo;s continent.</p><p>Further evidence of this possibility comes at the beginning of <i>A Crown of Swords</i>.  The prophecy states "He calls upon... the very sky to bow."  In my opinion, another indication that dragons exist, and that they will serve Rand, the DRAGON Reborn, as Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don draws near.</p><p>Another prophecy in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> states that, "Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth."  Beyond the horizon=Shara, fires of heaven=dragons.  The dragons are awakening in Shara, and purging the earth as they do so.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is a very cool theory.  I cannot recall seeing something like this anywhere else.  I like the idea of there being dragons flying around in Shara, and nobody knows anything about the nation except what visitors can see in a few walled towns.  Shara has to play a part in the story - every other nation has.  This is an interesting possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Adding to Dragons Are From Shara
body:
<p>Liked this theory.  Another thing to note is that Shara is in the Far East of Rand Land. This could be because Jordan&rsquo;s Shara is the equivalent to ancient China.  For example, where did Europe get its silk from, the Far East.  If Shara is Rand Land&rsquo;s China, this helps the "Dragons are from Shara Theory" because everyone knows where the legend of dragons came from, China.  Perhaps, if Shara Dragons ever do come into play in the story, gunpowder may as well?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There are certainly a lot of parallels between Shara and China.  Also, might gun powder come from the Illuminators&rsquo; fireworks?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Dragons In Our Midst?
body:
<p>More than likely Shara is yet another country with a prophecy to be fulfilled and in one way or another Rand will do it. I like the idea of dragons existing on the other side of the Aiel Waste but it seems a bit incongruous that they have never been seen by anyone, except for the possibility of the Sharans. If we are comparing Shara to China in reference to dragons one must remember that dragons were supposedly seen throughout the entire eastern hemisphere and parts of the western at one time or another. What makes Randland any different? Why would these dragons stay in just Shara and not roam the rest of the continent looking for flocks of sheep and/or the virgins of the land? Even if they are asleep in some ancient cave on the far end of Shara they still would have left legends from ancient times such as the Age of Legends. Yet another point is the Breaking of the World - if these dragons do exist they would have had to been seen after such a cataclysmic event; I know that would have woke me up. I&rsquo;m not trying to disprove the theory that Shara habors dragons, I&rsquo;m just being sceptical.</p><p>"He calls upon the very sky to bow." More than likely this is a quote in reference to the weather, which up until now has played a major role in the saga. Rand does seem to have the ability to call down massive damage from the sky. And as far as the other quote, "Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth," I once again see mother nature and/or Rand fulfilling this one.</p><p>Like I said earlier, I&rsquo;m not trying to disprove this theory, I&rsquo;m just being skeptical. To be quite honest I would love Robert Jordon to prove me wrong on this one but I don&rsquo;t believe it will happen.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.  You make a good point - why has no one ever mentioned having seen dragons before?  I am also trying to recall if any of the palaces or museums (Tarabon comes to mind) had murals or anything which might have depicted a dragon.  Maybe Rand will wake the dragons up or something.  Who knows, but I would not be shocked if dragons played a part in the story.  At the same time, though, I suppose I would not be totally surprised if Jordan never mentions them...  Can you tell I have yet to make up my mind on this topic?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Perrin Will Lead Shara
body:
<p>Okay, this is wild conjecture based on the little bits and pieces of what I know about mythology. I think Perrin will end up with Shara somehow and lead the eastern assault in the last battle. (Matt, I think, will turn the Seanchan to Rand's aid on the western front.)</p><p>The Sharans, being the WoT's sort-of middle-east, reminded me of the myth of the ancient Canaanite goddess Asherah of the Sea. She was the consort of Baal-Hadad, the storm god, who is often equated with Thor (or Perun), the muscular hammer-and axe-wielding god who fights with Odin (Matt?) and Tyr (Rand?) in Ragnarok, the last battle. (I realize I'm mixing mythologies, but so is Jordan.) In one legend, Baal-Hadad slays Lotan, the Leviathan, a seven-headed dragon. (Maybe Shara is where dragons dwell!) "Shara" is also a middle-eastern (Pakistani?) word for "goat." The legend goes that Thor's chariot is pulled by two goats. Interestingly, the goddess Asherah had twins: Shachar and Shalim (who's names mean dawn and dusk [the beginning and the end?], and are known as "pounders of the sea") which reminds me of the Sharan leaders, the Sh'boan and Sh'botay. And, in Canaanite mythology, the father of the gods was "El," or "the bull." On a historical level, the ancient Canaanites were known for the fine red wool they allowed their seafaring neighbors, the Pheonecians, to sell for them. Finally, the word "ayyad" (the Sharan Aes Sedai) sounds like the Umayyad, the elite or the Caliphates of the first Islamic Dynasty, an empire which included much of the middle-east, of which ancient Canaan (somewhere between Gaza and Lebanon) was a part.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, my spell-checker went insane when I ran it through this theory.  I say things like that when I have no idea what to say in response to a theory...  Pretty much, Jordan draws from a lot of different mythological sources, and it looks like you have recognized a couple more.  wotmania, out...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Dragons in the Age of Legends
body:
<p>I do like all these theories, but I can't help doubting. Why haven't we heard anything about dragons from the Age of Legends? I believe the dragons may be mythological creatures in Jordan's books too, or perhaps they just nestle somewhere...  I wouldn't count out the possibility that if the dragons actually exist, it might as well be in Seanchan as in Shara. I think it matches better with the words "beyond the horizon."</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, when you think about it, we really do not know much about the Age of Legends - just occasional scraps that are remembered or which come from things the Forsaken talk about...  Also, the dragon banner has a picture which resembles a dragon - where else would the picture on that banner have come from?  You do make a good point, though - why have we not heard mention of dragons in the Age of Legends if they were hanging around back then?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Dragons in Shara
body:
<p>How do we know the dragons can fly?  On the Dragon banner, the dragon is shown without wings (Guide page 295) Also, in reference to the Chinese dragons, they also have no wings.  So, the reason the cities of Shara are high walled is to keep the dragons out.  Also, that's why there are no rumors from the Sea Folk and other traders with Shara of flying beasts.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is certainly an interesting possibility...  I am curious as to whether or not the other cities in Shara have high walls or not.  If the only cities in Shara with the high walls are those the traders enter, this theory is pretty much shot.  If all the cities in Shara have high walls, then you may have hit on something here.  I guess we will just have to wait until someone wanders over to Shara to find out...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: The Channelers of Shara
body:
<p>I think one major role that Shara will play in the future is replenishing the bloodline.  Some of the Aes Sedai have a theory that killing all of the male channelers has gradually culled out the ability to channel in the human race. Less girls come every year, and our heroines are the strongest channelers in centuries, probably because of the old Manetheren blood.</p><p>In Shara, we have a whole society of channelers that has very carefully been interbreeding channelers to concentrate the ability.  Living in their separate towns surrounded by each other from birth, I would imagine that they have cultivated the ability far better than their Western counterparts - more time to practice in daily life and to see channeling from an early age.  I would imagine that they have not lost old Talents, and may have found new ones.  They will be instrumental in setting up the next Hall of Servants (after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don) with powers that would impress even the Forsaken.  We might think the White Tower will lead the fight against the Dreadlords, but I think it's going to be Shara that could break the world again or remake it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is one point I do not believe I have ever heard mentioned.  Seeing as the Sharans actively breed male channelers with female channelers, they would (at least in theory) have the most (and probably strongest) channelers of any of the present-day societies.  In one way I would be very surprised if the Sharans did not come into play before Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, but given their suspicion of outsiders it is hard to imagine them being particularly helpful.  Only time will tell, I suppose...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Verin... A Lightfriend?
body:
<p>I think that Verin is a Lightfriend (like a Darkfriend only of the Light).  If you think about it, Verin knows a lot of mysterious things that a lot of Aes Sedai don&rsquo;t know.  It makes perfect sense really, if Verin is an agent of the Creator then she would probably have access to information that a lot of Aes Sedai probably don&rsquo;t know about.  She seems to show up right when she is needed and always knows what to do.  She also knew about Moiraine and Siuan seeking the Dragon Reborn and did nothing.  Why?  Because she works for the Creator and he wants the Dragon to win of course.  She could possibly be a ta&rsquo;veren and no one knows about it.  She really doesn&rsquo;t act like a Brown but maybe she needed to be a Brown because she needed the knowledge to help Rand for Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  I know that people think she is a Darkfriend because she can lie but I think that the Oath Rod from the Nine Rods of Dominion is a Black Ajah trick to tie the Aes Sedai of the Light so that they can have partial control of the Sisters of the Light.  She probably figured that out and got out of taking the Oaths.  She might have also found out that the Oath Rod shortens the Aes Sedai&rsquo;s life and that would explain her old, old age.  Moiraine doesn&rsquo;t trust her, but if a mysterious woman who seemed to know more than the average Aes Sedai and never explains her motives and does not act like one of her Ajah than I would be suspicious also.  I also include as Lightfriends Moiraine, Logain, Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Lan, Gareth Bryne, Sheriam, maybe even Min (her gift being from the Creator to help Rand in his journey).  They are chosen by the Creator to help, whether they know it or not, the Dragon.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have always liked the idea of the Lightfriends, but I would like to mention a few things.  I think Verin knew about Siuan and Moiraine because she is smart and observant.  I doubt that she is ta&rsquo;veren.  But if there is such a group as the Lightfriends, I am guessing Verin is a proud, card-carrying member.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Secret Ajah
body:
<p>This is just a little idea I've been toying with.</p><p>Let&rsquo;s assume there's a secret group/Ajah within the Tower that is dedicated to aiding the Dragon or helping the world after the Last Battle. (In any case it would make a nice counter-balance to the Black Ajah). If such a group was to exist in the Tower, it would have to have found a way to keep safe from the Black Ajah, whose existence was probably known to this group. A good way of protecting themselves would be to take an extra oath (being within the Tower, they could easily have had acces to the Oath-Rod or found another within the Tower&rsquo;s bunch of goodies). The oath could be something along the lines of normally sticking to the "regular" oaths but being able to break them when their group&rsquo;s existence or goals were threathened. Verin&rsquo;s somewhat odd behaviour at times (like her little Compulsion-like trick) could then be explained as acting in order to achieve her group&rsquo;s goals. So I believe Verin is one of the good guys, although she probably has a hidden agenda (achieving her group&rsquo;s own goals).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I like the idea of the Lightfriends, and this "fourth oath" would certainly be a way they could protect themselves from discovery.  Nice thinking, I like that idea!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Verin - Lightfriend?
body:
<p>Now, I really like the idea of Lightfriends and who knows, perhaps when Rand is in desperate trouble a new secret Ajah may come out of the woodwork...  But I disagree that Verin is ta&rsquo;veren or that she has secret powers that give her special knowledge...</p><p>The Brown Ajah, is known for researching things, and as we see when we get a look in to her room, she has a LOT of stuff in there - not necessarily to do with the Dragon. She may well know more than Moiraine, because she has spent a lot more time studying.</p><p>As for her knowledge of Siuan and Moiraine - as someone said, she is very observant and may have picked up on it in the early stages, and decided to see where it went...</p><p>I realize there&rsquo;s not a lot of evidence, but it's my meager thoughts, please feel free to prove me wrong.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There is no such thing as a meager thought, though I would guess some visitors might take that opinion on some of my comments...  I certainly think that Verin is a Lightfriend (if there is such a group, of course).  Also, she does not seem like other Browns - she pays better attention to what is going on in the world, which I think explains how she knew about Siuan and Moiraine.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: I Don&rsquo;t Know
body:
<p>I don't know exactly what Verin is up to, but I don't think anybody else does either. However, Verin is special. In <i>The Great Hunt</i> she seems to use the Power to check out Trayal when the Elders of Tsofu bring him out to show what Machin Shin was capable of. Alar asks Verin to touch Trayal. Why? I'll tell you what I think.<blockquote>"Verin gave her a long look, then rose and strode to Trayal. He did not move as she laid her hands on his wide chest, not even a flicker of an eye to acknowledge her touch. With a sharp hiss, she jerked back, staring up at him, then whirled to face the Elders. &lsquo;He is ... empty. This body lives, but there is nothing inside it. Nothing.&rsquo;"</blockquote>How could she know this, and why did she give the Elders a long look before doing whatever she did to Trayal? Because she can channel in the stedding, and the Elders knew that she could. How? She is an advocate of the Light and so are the Elders. I know as well as everyone else that the Power cannot be wielded in the stedding, but there have been a lot of cannot&rsquo;s that have been proven wrong. Perhaps the Creator has given Verin and others like her this Talent. In <i>The Shadow Rising</i>, Verin warns Perrin to stay clear of Alanna. This was his being ta&rsquo;veren, but later when Perrin has the Trolloc arrow in his rib Verin tells Faile that Alanna must be the one to Heal him because her Talents lie elsewhere. I know that these aren&rsquo;t proof, but Jordan doesn't do anything without a reason.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is an interesting idea...  I have always wondered about that scene with Verin, from the first time I read it.  And you make a good point - maybe Lightfriends (should they exist) can channel in the stedding.  And I also like the idea of the Ogier Elders being Lightfriends.  Pretty much I like anything that involves the Lightfriends...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Wanderer=Lews Therin
body:
<p>When the wanderer shows up during the battle with Sammael I think that he is a vision of Lews Therin that Rand is having. Everybody thinks that it is one of the Forsaken using the True Power and that is why Rand doesn&rsquo;t feel the weaves of the balefire. But if the wanderer was a vision of Lews Therin then it is possible that he seized duel control of the Power with Rand and made the weave himself. Rand wouldn&rsquo;t have felt that because of his severely weakened state. This all stems from Min&rsquo;s vision when she saw Rand as two people then walking away as one. It also explains why the wanderer was able to make an unnoticed getaway because he just wasn&rsquo;t really there in the first place.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You seem to be saying that the wanderer was simply a hallucination on Rand&rsquo;s part.  If this is the case, who helped pull Rand out of that hole by the wrist?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Lews Therin, No Doubt About It (On My Part)
body:
<p>I am absolutely convinced that the "wanderer" is Lews Therin, the description wasn&rsquo;t brilliant (we didn&rsquo;t get much) but we did know about his appearance fit Lews Therins&rsquo; description, also Lews Therin vanishes from Rand's mind a short while before, and he seemed to be just a bit more sane, i.e. not so much mad and homicidal muttering and ranting, more informative, helpful comments, etc.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The only problem I have with your thought is that you say the wanderer looked like Lews Therin.  He is described as looking little older than Rand with dark hair.  Lews Therin had gray in his hair when died...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Gotta Be Moridin
body:
<p>Okay, now this one is pretty clear cut for me. The wanderer pretty well matches descriptions given of Moridin both before and after the incident. Plus he seems to have in-depth knowledge of the way that Sammael thinks, which says to me that he must be someone from the Age of Legends, or a reincarnation of one. Let&rsquo;s assume Ishamael for simplicity. Plus Moridin was a master of sha&rsquo;rah, and there is a comment about the fisher, who can be controlled by both players in the game. This explains the wanderer's "plans" for Rand perfectly. And then there is the final point that Rand couldn&rsquo;t feel him channeling balefire. My guess is the True Power, which Moridin doesn&rsquo;t hesitate to use. Thus I conclude that the wanderer in Shadar Logoth is Moridin.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now that is some solid thinking.  Of course the fact that you agree with my view on the subject probably helps...  I certainly think the wanderer was Moridin, but there are certainly good points to be made for other folks who might have been in Shadar Logoth that night.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Lanfear!
body:
<p>Recall the chapter about Osan&rsquo;gar and Aran&rsquo;gar. We learn that Halima is one of them (Aran&rsquo;gar, I think), and that she&rsquo;s a man, baby! Mat says that "she&rsquo;s a terrible dancer" because she "tries to lead." In that society, no woman would try to lead while dancing. Plus, Halima channels something other than <i>saidar</i>. Why not <i>saidin</i>? Osan&rsquo;gar says that his new body is "an excellent joke."</p><p>Anyhoo, there&rsquo;s Ara&rsquo;gar. Where&rsquo;s Osan&rsquo;gar? Simple! Pulling Rand out of a hole in Shadar Logoth! Rand does not feel his helper&rsquo;s weaves because they are <i>saidar</i>, and he's too tired to get goosebumps.</p><p>This leaves one question: who is Osan&rsquo;gar?</p><p>Lanfear! Shai&rsquo;tan can bring his Chosen back from death, so why not from Finnland? And she certainly had time to forgive Rand&rsquo;s infidelity, especially since she can no longer have him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would have to disagree...  Osan&rsquo;gar is a man (Aginor), we know that for a fact.  If you want to guess who Lanfear is, take another look at Cyndane.  And the wanderer was definitely a man - I do not think Rand was woozy enough to mistake Cyndane for a big tall guy...  By the way, I liked Austin Powers as well!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: Demandred Helped Rand
body:
<p>It has to be Demandred. Remember back in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> when Demandred is speaking to the Dark One and he comments on how well he has obeyed the order to create chaos? You should also remember that the other part of that order was that no one should kill Rand. Therefore it is logical that Demandred would come to Rand&rsquo;s assistance upon learning that Sammael was about to disobey that order in order to gain status, possibly even the much wanted position of Nae&rsquo;blis. The reaction between the two kinds of balefire is a reaction between the True Power (one only the Forsaken know how to tap) and the One Power. It is possible that it was also a good vs evil reaction.</p><p>It cannot be anyone but Demandred because it had to be someone from the Age of Legends and he is the only male on the scene other than Sammael, Moridin, and Osan&rsquo;gar (who hasn&rsquo;t reappeared).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I will argue the wanderer was Moridin until something in Book 9 proves me wrong.  The wanderer&rsquo;s attitude toward Rand was quite similar to what Ishamael used to think.  Of course, this kind of depends on whether or not you think Moridin is Ishamael...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: The Wanderer Is...
body:
<p>Moridin seems to be the only candidate for the wanderer up to the point where Rand falls through that hole in <i>A Crown of Swords</i>. Unless we have yet another ally to the Dark One running loose. I'll go through the points in chronological order if it pleases the Light.<ul><li>The wanderer has a deep, rich voice. Moridin was described as having a deep, rich voice. But that could pretty much be any man in WoT. Moving on...</li><li>The wanderer was totally clothed in black. Rand thinks that only an Asha'man would clothe himself in this way, but he has never met Moridin. Moghedien remembers that Moridin said his colors were black and red... But once again that really isn't conclusive evidence.</li><li>Next is the strange double vision that Rand experienced when his and the wanderer's balefire crossed paths. The True Power was being used, that's for sure, because Rand didn't feel <i>saidin</i> or <i>saidar</i> being channeled. The reason Rand nearly fell on his face when his balefire touched Moridin's is because the taint is a weave of the True Power. The two weaves touching would magnify the taint for Rand, but does nothing at all to Moridin. This double vision and loss of balance is the clincher for me that both the wanderer is Moridin and the taint is a weave of the True Power.</li><li>Finally the wanderer simply disappears when he walks into an alley in Shadar Logoth. This means that once again the True Power is used, because if <i>saidin</i> was used Rand would have definitely felt it as he mused to himself when Moridin left the scene. <i>Saidar</i> - same.</li></ul>Even if he was too tired to feel <i>saidin</i>, which he wasn't because he felt Sammael seize it, he would have seen the slash of light that indicates a gateway. Here's the point, when Moridin watches Sammael and Graendal he simply steps outside the Pattern when he leaves. No gateway. Just zip, outside of reality. That is what almost certainly happens when the wanderer leaves Shadar Logoth. Since Moridin is the only one who dares to use the True Power the last two points of evidence prove it was him.</p><p>I would also like to say something of Myrddraal. Their ability to disappear into shadows is easily explained if one takes the time to think about it. A Myrddraal's powers all stem from the Dark One. The True Power stems from the Dark One. Myrddraal have a warped ability to channel the True Power, and since they really don't know what they are doing, they don't have to worry about being burned up when they step outside reality. This ability to step outside the Pattern is a trait shared only by those who channel the True Power, thus Myrddraal's abilities must be manifestations of the True Power in them from the evil that created them. And it was once said that the more human a Shadowspawn is, the more evil can be infused into it. This explains Shaidar Haran's strange abilities beyond that of other Myrddraal.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would have to agree that the wanderer is Moridin.  And as usual, your theory wanders off the original path to something else interesting...  The Myrddraal unconsciously channeling the True Power is a reasonable explanation for how they slip from shadow to shadow around the world.  I cannot recall whether or not the Forsaken can tell if another is holding the True Power...  If they cannot sense it, it would lend even greater credence to this idea.  Aginor killed a mess of Myrddraal trying to figure out how they jump between shadows - maybe they just use the True Power and neither he nor they would ever realize it...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-22 00:00:00
subject: The Creator in Shadar Logoth
body:
<p>I think it was the Creator who helped Rand.  First, why I think it couldn't be Moridin.  The main argument for this seems to be that since Rand didn't feel the One Power being used, then it must have been the True Power.  Well, there's been plenty of discussion about Lightfriends who would have access to a similar power stemming from the Creator.  Would it not also makesense that this power could not be sensed except by those who wield it?  Also, I really don't believe that Moridin would draw the True Power for something like that.  Oooo!  Balefire!  Was it not said that one will not draw the True Power unless in the most dire of need?  He could have used <i>saidin</i> just as easily.  It's also been said that the double vision and so forth are because the "taint is a weave of the True Power. The two weaves touching would magnify the taint for Rand, but do nothing at all to Moridin."  First of all, the other guy was affected.  <i>A Crown of Swords</i>, p 846-7, paperback:<blockquote>"There seemed to be a pair of the other man overlapping one another, each clutching his head between two hands."</blockquote>Rand also had to help the other man up.  Not the sign of someone "unaffected."  I trust in Rand's judgment enough to know the feel of the taint.  If any semblance of that feeling caused him to collapse, he would have thought so.  I say it was the Creator who helped him because of:<ul><li>The emphasis placed on the deep, rich voice.  I cannot think of a voice that would carry richer than that of the Creator.</li><li>His reluctance to identify himself.  He has said before that he wouldn't get involved.  If Rand knew it were him, he may come to rely on his help entirely too much.</li><li>The way he appeared at just the right moment.  I doubt that in Rand's sense of alertness he would have failed to notice someone following him around like that.  The Creator could have just taken physical form right then and there.</li><li>Use of balefire.  What better weapon for the Creator than just plucking out the thread of the threat.</li><li>He was as tall as Rand.  I would think the Creator tall, wouldn't you?</li><li>The other man did in fact fall.  If it was Moridin and he was using the True Power, then he would not have been affected.  But, if it was the Creator, coming into direct contact with the taint (something coming directly from the Dark One) would be cause for him to falter.</li></ul>Granted, the man does speak as though he has ulterior motives, but no one knows the true nature of the Creator.  Maybe he was just that way so Rand wouldn't suspect who he was.  The only line that throws me is <i>A Crown of Swords</i> p 848 paperback.<blockquote>"A great many plans will have to be relaid if you let yourself be killed now."</blockquote>It could be something the Creator would say, and just as easily not...  We'll find out by the end of the series - hopefully!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have heard this idea from a few different sources, but I find it difficult to lend it much credence.  For one thing, Moridin uses the True Power for everything - that is why he has the saa.  The Creator does not lend a hand in the battle between good and evil - I can hardly see him changing that policy.  Last, the second quote you mention to me seems exactly like something Moridin (Ishamael) would say.  Until something pops up to make it extremely clear it was someone else was the wanderer in Shadar Logoth I will continue to think it was Moridin.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Relation Between Rand and Lews Therin Telamon
body:
<p>I&rsquo;d like to share my ideas about the voices in Rand&rsquo;s head and the issue of whether or not he&rsquo;s nuts. Most opinions about this that I&rsquo;ve heard break down in one of two ways: A.) Rand really does have another soul in his body - Lews Therin Telamon; or B.) the voices Rand hears are manifestations of the taint eating his mind up. I&rsquo;d like to offer a more comprehensive theory that preserves the strengths of both while uniting them in what I consider a more satisfying explanation.</p><p>In order to make sense of my theory, it is important that I elucidate a philosophical distinction - and I take no credit for this idea, just its application here; it really is a piece of real, honest to God philosophy, courtesy of the late 18th-century German Idealist philosopher Immanuel Kant. In his discussions of the nature of the person, Kant made a distinction between what he called the transcendental ego and the empirical ego. The former is the total system of all finite, concrete, empirical details that we commonly associate with ourselves - our names, places in our family, memberships in various organizations such as churches or other religious groups, clubs, etc., our jobs, citizenship status, personal habits, likes and dislikes, etc. In other words, everything that we commonly think of as composing our personality.</p><p>But, for Kant, there is another side to the human being, the transcendental ego that is the thinking mind behind all those empirical details, the irreducible "I" that has all those characteristics inhering to it. A useful metaphor might be to compare the empirical ego to a mixed drink of some sort, and the transcendental ego to the glass the fluids are contained and mixed in; the one is the material and content, the other is the form and structure, and you don&rsquo;t have a whole entity with out them both. In the example of the drink, the fluids without the glass are just a formless puddle, and the glass without the fluids is just a barren, empty structure; likewise, in a person, the empirical ego without the transcendental ego is just a meaningless coincidence of facts and data unrelated to anyone, while the transcendental ego without the empirical ego is an empty, thinking mind without any connection to the world, floating in a void.</p><p>So, how does this apply to our potentially insane messiah? Well, I think it works out like this - the Dragon is the transcendental ego, the single, irreducible entity reborn again and again in age after age to fight the Shadow; "Rand al&rsquo;Thor" and "Lews Therin Telamon" are lives that this person has lived in successive ages - different empirical egos, different personalities. Thus, in a sense, the people who hold to "A", the two-minds-in-one-head theory, are right - their are two empirical egos in the one transcendental ego, the Dragon; but they are not absolutely different entities - just different personalities, different senses of self, vying for conscious expression. It is this that leads to the voices that Rand hears, and that leads the "B" adherents, to think he&rsquo;s going nuts - in a sense, he is - his empirical ego, the personality inherent in his mind, is under subconscious pressure from the forgotten data of his past lives - the other persons he has been, the other empirical egos, and the most recent one especially, are beginning to surface and express themselves. Whatever the taint may be doing to him, Rand&rsquo;s current mental problems are due to his own past lives - perhaps it is the taint that is stirring them up; thus, it would be indirectly driving him mad. In any case, the Dragon&rsquo;s mental stability seems to rest on his being able to come to terms with the fact that he has lived many different lives, of which this is just the latest - a daunting prospect; who would want to look at everything and everyone they know and love and think that they are just the most recent in a long series of cherished things and people ("who wants to live for ever?")? But that&rsquo;s what I think Rand&rsquo;s got to do in order to keep it all together - he has to rise above his immersion in his current place and time before he can return to it in the fullness of his might as the Dragon Reborn and kick the Dark One&rsquo;s head in.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, you really like metaphors!  I agree, I think...  It was a long day at work (designing websites), and I do not think I am up to Kant at the moment.  But I certainly agree with your idea - Rand and Lews Therin are both in the Dragon&rsquo;s head at the moment, both vying for the ability to express himself.  Perhaps Rand will be in the head of the next Dragon who comes around - "Light, I killed Liah..." or some such ranting will drive the next Dragon to distraction.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Rand al&rsquo;Thor&rsquo;s Unhealing Wound
body:
<p>I am still working out this theory in my own mind so it may be a little muzzy.  The wound Rand received from Ba&rsquo;alzamon in the conclusion of <i>The Great Hunt</i> has always been a significant factor for Rand, a tempering factor preventing him from flexing his complete power both physically and with the True Source. This really must be to the good. He is young in years and to the Power and needs to proceed carefully if he is to come into his own and out pace the madness waiting for him as a man who can channel. In <i>A Crown of Swords</i> Rand receives a slash across his wound from the Shadar Logoth dagger wielded by Padan Fain, the Asha&rsquo;man Flinn who attempts a Healing for Rand says these two wounds seem to be fighting each other (<i>A Crown of Swords</i> , page 574).</p><p>Ok now for my theory, the original wound on Rand&rsquo;s side would have eventually become a real threat to his victory at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  He is to fight a God after all and must be at peak form for even a hope of success. My main theory within all my other theories is that everything that happens to the main characters happens by design by the Creator in order to even the odds when the Last Battle if fought.  If Padan Fain&rsquo;s wound can stop the corruption of the first wound then Rand has a chance of staying whole as long as needs be. I believe Nynaeve will eventually Heal both wounds.  Maybe the wound given by Fain will prevent the original wound from overcoming Rand until she can figure out how to Heal him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is a good idea, one that I had never really thought about.  The people of Aridhol fought the Shadow with evil.  Now the two wounds are fighting each other...  The wound has certainly restrained Rand in some instances, probably to his benefit.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Rand&rsquo;s Three Loves
body:
<p>Rand has a very serious problem, as we are all aware.  The three involved are aware of it as well.  Aviendha has decided that she cares not, even though she really does, but decided that sharing Rand with Elayne is not a problem.  What about Elayne and Min?  I mean, the relationship between Min and Rand seems mainly physical, but is quickly becoming more, but he still likes Elayne, but is afraid of her as well, just because he "borrowed" her throne, and returned it to her.  Ok, so say Elayne goes along with all of this, then what about Min?  She seems besotted with Rand, but hasn&rsquo;t met Aviendha yet either.  What will happen when they all come together and he has to choose?  I think that he will choose Elayne, but will definitely keep Min close to remind him that he's only a "sheepherder."  I think Rand will try to keep an eye on Aviendha, but she will go with the Wise Ones, now that her sister (Elayne) is "safe."</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This will certainly be an interesting story line to follow.  I do not think that Rand will end up with only one of the three.  Aviendha is clearly used to one man having multiple lives from Aiel culture.  Elayne seems to think sharing him with Aviendha would not be a problem.  Elayne and Min like each other as well.  Perhaps Rand will be the first Aiel with three sister-wives?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Why Rand Loves Three Women
body:
<p>Who hasn&rsquo;t asked themselves the question of why Rand loves three different women?  Well, my reasoning is that because Rand is the Dragon Reborn, Lews Therin Telamon spun out once again, he should logically love the rebirth of Ilyena.  However, Ileyna was killed by Lews Therin and for some reason cannot be born again.  Aviendha, Elayne, and Min are three women who share all of Ileyna&rsquo;s traits, therefore Rand finds them all irresistible.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think every person from the Age of Legends has been reborn.  Yes, as the Wheel turns certain people are reborn, and yes there are similarities between people now and people then.  But not every major character from either time has a counterpart in the other.  I do not know that Ilyena was an important enough character to be spun out again by the Wheel.  Rand loves these women because they see a man and not the Dragon Reborn - perhaps Ilyena saw Lews Therin as a man and not the Dragon.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Why Elayne Can't Make a Ter&rsquo;angreal That Works
body:
<p>I know, I know, she can make her own ter&rsquo;angreal that work just fine, but why can&rsquo;t Elayne make a duplicate of the ring ter&rsquo;angreal that gives access to Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod? I'll tell you why. Most of the ter&rsquo;angreal from the Age of Legends were made from <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>. Someone pointed out that if the seals had been made from both halves of the Power that maybe they would have worked properly. That person also said that <i>Callandor</i> was made from just <i>saidin</i> or just <i>saidar</i> and that&rsquo;s why it doesn't work perfectly. The point is this:  The ter&rsquo;angreal from the Age of Legends were made with both halves of the Power; Elayne only uses one half of the Power; no matter how much Talent she has, she cannot make a perfect duplicate because of the missing corresponding matrices of <i>saidin</i> that the ter&rsquo;angreal needs to work.</p><p>I also have something to say about the seals that I don&rsquo;t think anyone has pointed out. JMC said that the seal that covers the Bore is a massive weave. Makes sense. It had to have been tied off to stay there, though, because the Hundred Companions couldn&rsquo;t stand at Shayol Ghul for all of eternity holding the weave. This is a big problem. After the weave was tied off, any old Darkfriend who could channel could come up and untie the knot. So, what the Hundred Companions needed was a ter&rsquo;angreal that could maintain contact with <i>saidin</i> without having a channeler around to do it. Instead of knots in the Seal, Lews Therin tied it to the ter&rsquo;angreal so the weave would be held instead of being tied off. This also has a huge problem in it. Ter&rsquo;angreal aren&rsquo;t indestructible. Even if hidden, these ter&rsquo;angreal could be broken by any idiot or Darkfriend, thus releasing Shai&rsquo;tan, and the Wheel broken and such... Anyway, the Hundred Companions decided they would have to make the ter&rsquo;angreal indestructible, therefore the seven seals of cuendillar.</p><p>By maintaining contact with <i>saidin</i>, the seals gave Shai&rsquo;tan access to the Power. Thus, the taint:  A massive weave of the Dark Power, or True Power if you prefer.</p><p>Looks like I got a little sidetracked from the original point of the theory.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Mashadarman, you always get sidetracked from the original point of the theory - it makes it hard to place your theories at times, but they are always interesting.  I cannot recall it saying anywhere that ter&rsquo;angreal have to be made with <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>.  Sometimes when Elayne is studying ter&rsquo;angreal she talks about them as seeming to be little trinkets given as gifts.  I was always thinking a single person could make one (if they know enough), so an Aes Sedai could give someone a little ter&rsquo;angreal for a birthday gift.  I could be wrong, though - it has been known to happen before.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Rand and Elayne
body:
<p>I read on one of the theories posted here that Nynaeve might be the one to help Rand at the final battle with the Dark One. I agree that she might be there to Heal him but I think Elayne will play a bigger role on that day. I got this idea while rereading <i>A Crown of Swords</i>. At the beginning of that book when Alviarin is speaking to Elaida, Elaida has a Foretelling. And then Jordan goes on to explain that Elaida attached herself to the Royal House of Andor because she had had another Foretelling long ago that the key to winning the Last Battle lay there.</p><p>Now, we do know that Rand's mother was Taringail who would have ruled if she hadn't left. So technically Rand is connected to the royals as much as Elayne. And they can both wield the Power very well. And it seems to be a forgone conclusion that both men and women of that nature are needed at Shayol Ghul. And also Elayne is picking up a lot about <i>Ter'angreal</i> which I am sure will come in handy at the end. So I think that Rand and Elayne have a destiny far greater than to merely fall in love.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Elaida&rsquo;s Foretelling could easily be looked at two different ways, and I think you hit them both - Rand and/or Elayne will be important at the Last Battle.  I am not sure how exactly Elayne&rsquo;s ability to make ter&rsquo;angreal might work into this, but it probably will somehow.  I am also going to go out on a limb and say Rand might be important at the Last Battle as well...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Min the Finn
body:
<p>First, for a little background...</p><p>If you recall, the Finn in the second red <i>Ter'angreal</i> doorway wore leather that looked suspiciously like human to Mat.  Assuming it was human hide, one has to wonder where they got it.  It's likely that very few Aiel who went into Rhuidean would stray through the ter&rsquo;angreal, and even if they did it would be rather hard to skin one of them.  So, assuming they got the flesh from elsewhere, here are a few thoughts.<ul><li>The Finn are capable of entering the other world by way of the Tower of Ghenjei or some other means.</li><li>They wear their own kind's flesh and it just looked human.</li><li>The Finn make really good imitation leather.</li><li>The Finn have a slave population of humans in their world.</li></ul>It seems unlikely that the Finn can leave their world.  Likely, the Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends placed restrictions on the <i>Ter'angreal</i> .  The Finn wearing the flesh of their dead just doesn't seem like something Jordan would put in.  Fake leather is just silly.  So the most likely possibility and the one I base this theory on is number four.  I think the Finn, at least those in the second door, keep humans as slaves.</p><p>Now, which characters do we know with the Finn-like capability to read the future of the Pattern and tell what will happen?  Every reading Min makes happens, just as all the Finn say or do occurs.  Min's past is hazy.  We know her three "aunts" raised her.  Maybe her "father" found her in a mine after she somehow escaped the realm of the Finn.  Or maybe her mother or another slave got her away.  Anybody seen the corny live-action Super Mario Brothers movie?</p><p>Min is from the land of the Finn, hence her foresight and always being correct, like the Finn.  She also has had only one viewing not come true yet, the one about Moiraine, who is in the land of the Finn.</p><p>She and Thom and Mat, others too maybe, will go into the Tower of Ghenjei to rescue Moiraine.  Min for the sake of her viewing about Rand, Thom for his love for Moiraine, and Mat because he has a grudge.  Only Perrin and Birgitte know about the entrance in the Tower of Ghenjei, so one of them might go as well.  Moiraine isn't necessarily dead.  Thom will retrieve her from danger.  Min&rsquo;s viewing didn't say Moiraine was dead, only that a dead woman had to be there to save Rand.  Moiraine was considered dead and therefore she is this woman.  I know the viewing wasn't this word-for-word, but it is a good hypothesis.  Time is skewed in the gateway.  Moiraine could have been bound by a Finn agreement or Oath Rod in the gateway before they could even move in the real world.  This would go along with the severing of the Warder bond.  Maybe, too, since time is skewed and Moiraine knew what was going to happen, she requested Lan's bond to be transferred.  The Finn could do it, after all.  Moiraine is alive, possibly enslaved, and she will be rescued by Thom, at the least.  If you see any blatant holes in this, I'd like to know.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> First, it was not the Finn who somehow transferred Lan&rsquo;s bond from Moiraine - Moiraine arranged for his bond to be passed on should she die (or be stilled, which seems to be what most people think happened).  I do not know how likely it is that Min somehow escaped a Finn slave camp, but I suppose it is as good an explanation as any I can think of...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Aligning the Matrix Theory
body:
<p>In <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> (not sure exactly where, I know it's after Nynaeve and Elayne reach Salidar) there is one part where Nynaeve comments about how Elayne said something about "aligning the matrices" (I think it was spelled like that) while talking about making <i>ter'angreal</i> and <i>sa' angreal</i>. In other parts where they talk about forgotten Talents they say something about Aligning the Matrix. Maybe making these <i>angreal</i> is a Talent that very few have and this is why only Elayne knows how to do it (if it were more common then she would not have been forced to teach herself how to do it).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I like this theory, and can not recall having seen it anywhere on the site before...  And it would also explain why none of the Forsaken have this ability - it is a rare Talent that none of them happen to have.  I wonder if Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends with this Talent would make and sell specialized <i>ter'angreal</i> for people to give as gifts...  I can just see Lews Therin walking into "<i>Ter'angreal</i> R Us" to find something special for Ilyena's birthday...  But I digress...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /> Good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Cadsuane Will Teach Linking
body:
<p>I think that Cadsuane will teach the Asha&rsquo;man how to link.  I believe it was said that the Asha&rsquo;man would not like what Cadsuane had to teach them.  Perhaps they will not like this simply because they are learning it from an Aes Sedai, and Cadsuane in particular.  After all, what else could an Aes Sedai teach to a man who can channel?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think it will be this simple.  After all, Asmodean said that he thought Egwene or Moiraine could reason out linking if they tried.  Perhaps Cadsuane will teach the Asha&rsquo;man an idea, or a value.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Respect for Aes Sedai
body:
<p>I think that Cadsuane will teach the Asha&rsquo;man to respect Aes Sedai.  Obviously they will not like this, but it is something that I think is necessary.  The Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends were well respected by all for how they helped society.  Most people of the current Age do not respect Aes Sedai in that manner.  They either fear them, or have an open dislike of them.</p><p>The Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man will never earn the world&rsquo;s respect if they are fighting among themselves and cannot get along.  Cadsuane will teach the Asha&rsquo;man to respect Aes Sedai, and this will be the first step towards both groups earning the respect they once held.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is sort of what I think is going to happen.  I think Cadsuane is going to teach the Asha&rsquo;man an idea or a value, not necessarily something that has to do with the Power.  After all, there is not much an Aes Sedai could teach an Asha&rsquo;man about the Power.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Cadsuane Will Teach Humility
body:
<p>Remember the pact the Cadsuane and Sorilea made at the beginning of <i>The Path of Daggers</i>?  They say they will teach Rand to cry and to laugh again.  I figure that this means that they will teach Rand and the Asha&rsquo;man to be human again, to laugh and to cry.  Remember, being strong is better than being hard.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is very true.  Rand seems almost to be forgetting he is human and times - he is certainly becoming too hard of a man.  If he gets to be too hard, he might snap.  Cadsuane teaching Rand and the Asha&rsquo;man humility would certainly be a great step toward success at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: <i>Saidin</i>
body:
<p>I believe that Cadsuane will help the Asha&rsquo;man because throughout her whole dealing with Rand, she has never once intended to hurt him.  She has tried to guide his decisions and to help him, but never to cause harm.  Cadsuane is an intelligent woman, and would not jeopardize her relationship to the Dragon Reborn.  She sees the interest of the people and will help to link the Aes Sedai and the Asha&rsquo;man, so that a greater control may be achieved in the Last Battle.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You make one point which I think some people lose sight of - despite whatever faults Cadsuane might have, she is not a stupid woman.  I do not think that Cadsuane will teach the Asha&rsquo;man how to link; it will probably be something more significant than that.  But she might teach them the cooperation necessary for the Asha&rsquo;man and Aes Sedai to work together.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Age of Legends
body:
<p>I think Cadsuane, being the oldest Aes Sedai living, will teach the Asha&rsquo;man to behave the way male Aes Sedai did in the Age of Legends. She probably knows more than any other about the subject.  That way, the Asha&rsquo;man will become male Aes Sedai and will work together with the female Aes Sedai, accomplishing things that can only be accomplished when <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i> are used in collaboration.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Even though Cadsuane is the oldest Aes Sedai alive, I do not think she knows much more about the Age of Legends than any other Aes Sedai  The Age of Legends was a long time ago.  Teaching the Asha&rsquo;man a little respect and the spirit of cooperation would go along way towards improving the relations between Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Cadsuane Will Teach Sanity
body:
<p>I think Cadsuane, in the process of helping Rand and the Asha&rsquo;man hold on to their humanity, will teach them also to hold on to their sanity.  When Cadsuane was first mentioned in the series, it was said that she had done a lot of work with men who could channel, and all the men she had worked with had managed to hold their sanity longer than most.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know necessarily that it is possible for Cadsuane to teach sanity.  Just touching <i>saidin</i> lets the taint seep into a man who can channel.  The men Cadsuane gentles tend to live longer than the average severed man, they do not hold off the taint longer.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Life Span of a Gentled Man
body:
<p>I think it most likely that Cadsuane will teach Rand and the Asha&rsquo;man humility, or the difference between hard and strong.  But an idea worth considering is that she means to teach them something about the Power.  While normally women could teach men nothing, the glossary entry for her in <i>A Crown of Swords</i> says that the men brought to the White Tower by her lived markedly longer after being gentled. Maybe this has nothing to do with the Power in the strictest sense, but it seems most probable that some kind of teaching is involved there.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Somehow, I do not think that whatever Cadsuane teaches the Asha&rsquo;man will have to do with the Power.  That is virtually impossible given everything known about <i>saidar</i> and <i>saidin</i>.  The difference between strength and hardness is certainly something Rand the Asha&rsquo;man could stand to learn.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The One Power
body:
<p>I think that Cadsuane will remind Rand that he is human and can make mistakes.  That is very important, but I also think that she will help Rand heal.  He continues to let the deaths of the Maidens fester within him.  He needs to, "Leave the dead and tend to the living."</p><p>Another thing that she may teach him and all the Aes Sedai (because someone has to teach them) is that he and the Asha&rsquo;man are Aes Sedai.  Maybe he&rsquo;s not part of the White Tower but the Aes Sedai existed before there was a White Tower, female and male Aes Sedai.  They need to cleanse <i>saidin</i> and fight the Dark One together. If either attempts to defeat the Dark One by themselves again I think they will surely fail and perhaps the backwash could then taint <i>saidar</i>.  If Cadsuane, or someone, doesn&rsquo;t remind everyone that they're working together, they will tear themselves apart.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Good point.  I wonder if the Asha&rsquo;man and Aes Sedai will manage to unify themselves before Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  Cadsuane would certainly be a good person to push them in that direction.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Just an Interesting Foreshadow (Possibly)
body:
<p>This isn&rsquo;t exactly a full-blown theory, but perhaps it lends credence to the fact that Cadsuane can teach Asha&rsquo;man something to do with <i>saidin</i>: (<i>The Great Hunt</i>, paperback page 126)<blockquote>"No living Aes Sedai can teach you to touch <i>saidin</i> any more than you could learn to touch <i>saidar</i>. A bird cannot teach a fish to fly, nor a fish teach a bird to swim."<p>"I have always thought that was a bad saying," Verin said suddenly. "There are birds that dive and swim. And in the Sea of Storms are fish that fly, with long fins that stretch out as wide as your outstretched arms, and beaks like swords that can pierce..."</p></blockquote>Now given it could be drawing far too much out of a little unrelated quote, there is the possibility that Robert Jordan was using Verin to do a little bit of foreshadowing.  Even more absurdly it could be hinting at Verin knowing something about Cadsuane (perhaps both being members of the Lightfriends...). *shrug* Thanks for listening.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There is no such thing as an unrelated quote in Jordan&rsquo;s writing.  This is an interesting possibility, one I certainly never thought of before.  And I just love any theory that hints at the existence of the Lightfriends.  Nice job picking up on that quote!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Isn&rsquo;t Love Beautiful?
body:
<p>I believe that Cadsuane will teach the Asha&rsquo;man how to feel and Rand how to love. I believe that she thinks that a woman&rsquo;s touch can solve the problem with Rand's bad temper and outbreaks. I think that she will soon try to contact Elayne or Aviendha, and try to get them to come to Rand. In the beginning it will just be to get them near him the she will try to talk the ladies into going a step further. If she succeeds she won't have to do anything about the Asha'man because I think that when they see their leader involved with a female Aes Sedai they will start to think. Maybe they will think that the Aes Sedai are trying to influence Rand to make decisions that pleases the Aes Sedai. But after a while they will see that that's not the case and then they might start thinking of women as well, and if you are able to love you cannot be as hard as they are know. I hope that this is the case because I would really enjoy seeing Elayne, Aviendha and Rand together, or maybe Cadsuane will try to contact Min because she is not an Aes Sedai.  I don&rsquo;t know but I do know that Rand cannot be this hard and insensitive if he is going to win the Last Battle. I hope you agree with me in some way.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Nice theory.  This is certainly what I think Cadsuane will teach all the Asha&rsquo;man - how to be human again.  And getting Rand together with his three loves would probably be a good way to start that.  Also, Rand and Elayne might be just what the Asha&rsquo;man and Aes Sedai need to get together after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Break the Seals and Cleanse
body:
<p>I believe Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man what Harid Fel found out and died for.  I think she will tell the Asha'man that <i>saidin</i> can only be cleansed if the seals are broken.  My proof of this thoery comes from the chapter "New Alliances" in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>. In Cadsuane's point of view she describes the current embroidery she is making:<blockquote>"The major image on her piece of embroidery was finished, a man's hand clutching the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai.  Cracks ran across the black-and-white disc, and there was no telling whether the hand was trying to hold it together or crush it.  She new what she intended, but time would tell what was truth."</blockquote>That last sentence carries much weight with it and leads me to believe that she will teach the Asha'man how to cleanse <i>saidin</i> by breaking the seals.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I cannot recall having seen this idea before, and I think it is quite interesting.  Good work on that quote - it certainly proves your point!  I know I am looking forward to seeing what exactly Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man, and this is a very real possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Another Voice in a Space So Small...
body:
<p>Recently I've read a theory in your "What will Cadsuane teach the Asha'man" page called "Isn't Love Beautiful?" It certainly is an interesting theory, but there is one thing that's bugged me about that one, and several other Cadsuane theories on your page. It's the theory that Cadsuane will teach them how to be human again.</p><p>Not that it isn't a noble pursuit, but I don't think Cadsuane HAS to teach the Asha'man to be human. I think they are very human. (Beware, this post may turn out to be a little long) Just look at Dashiva, and Flinn. Dashiva is NOT what I would call a cold killing machine. And Flinn definitely doesn't need lessons on being human. Heck, the reason Flinn wanted to learn how to channel was to be able to heal people. Dashiva bonded his wife. People pass over the significance of this point. No one who couldn't love, and care like a normal human, would do such a thing. They are human enough to recognize the desire to know that a loved one is safe and happy. There is that big bully who tried to step on Rand when he was there to hand out the silver swords and golden dragon pins in about the sixth book. But in any group of people there are those who are power hungry. However Taim keeps them in order enough that they haven't gotten extremely arrogant - just arrogant enough to suit their position. For example, I know Rand is the pinnacle of arrogance sometimes, but some of the Asha'man were more disgusted at their killing of the Shaido than Rand was. They do it out of necessity and not because they like it.</p><p>Now, I think that covers why I think Cadsuane won't teach them to be human; they are as human as they can afford to be under the circumstances, as they are essentially living weapons.</p><p>What I think Cadsuane will teach them is strength of will. She certainly has enough will power, I believe she will impart that knowledge onto the Asha'man. It seems that the madness can be slowed, or takes a slower course, in those that resist its effects. Rand, Logain, and Taim for example. Rand especially has fought tooth and nail, never giving quarter, never taking quarter, in his fight for continued sanity. It is an uphill battle that will be lost. But I think the harder it is fought, the longer they will last. By Cadsuane teaching the Asha'man to be strong in their fight for sanity, probably the most important fight they will ever face prior to the Great Battle (I prefer to call it the Great Battle as opposed to the Last Battle for my own reasons not to be discussed here) Rand needs the Asha'man, and they need their sanity to last until the Great Battle comes. I believe only with the help of Cadsuane and her great stores of courage and strength of character will they be able to stave off madness long enough. If they do not, there will be a much larger threat for Rand than the Seanchan.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> First off, I think you may be mistaking Dashiva for Grady (I think it is Grady I am thinking of...).  Dashiva is the screwy Asha&rsquo;man who I am convinced is our friend Osan&rsquo;gar.  You are certainly correct that Cadsuane has enough will power, and the men she gentled tend to live longer lives than those gentled by others...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Love Ain't Grand When Death Be Coming
body:
<p>Listen, there is a lot of this "humanity" and "love" stuff going around, and I don't like the smell of it. The Last Battle is coming, and since most of the Asha'man are going to die there, I doubt that the thing that the Asha'man MUST learn is how to love your neighbor...</p><p>What I do think is that the all knowing Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man how to enter a link. I believe the very first theory from this string mentions this, I'm not sure, but think about it.  The Asha'man have been bonding the Aes Sedai sent to destroy them with a sort of pseudo-compulsion weave which happens to include a bit of the "wife-bond" that the married men have been using. Logain in particular seems eligible for this linking theory - if wotmania posts my other theory you can read that too.</p><p>Anyway, to seal the Dark One up for the Age, thereby ending it (I don't believe the "line of time" theories will come to pass) you need both <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>, and that means bringing men into a circle. The only men able to channel are the Asha'man, so they need to learn how to enter the circle so that they can seal the prison. Also, if 'Taim manages to match the old White Tower's record for recruits, then the numbers will be right for the circle to be composed of the maximum number of men and women mentioned in the Big White Book (my own title for that guy).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I am sure there are some who would agree with you - that the Asha&rsquo;man becoming human might not be the best thing in the world.  But to me it just seems like Cadsuane will teach something more monumental than linking.  After all, Asmodean once said that Moiraine, or Egwene, could probably reason out the linking method if they put their minds to it...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Respect
body:
<p>I find it unlikely that Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man love and humility. She is not particularly the most charming or caring woman in the world - look at how she deals with Rand, attempting to manipulate him in typical Aes Sedai style. Honestly, I think her ambitions are a little different than spreading love and affection amongst the Asha'man - she wants to help Rand win, and probably get her name in the history books at the same time. Rand is her greatest challenge. To aid Rand, she needs to get him to the Last Battle in the first place, and that means staving off the madness.</p><p>So my theory has two answers: Cadsuane will either aid Rand in resisting madness or cleansing <i>saidin</i>, perhaps with the aid of Callandor (though Logain seems a more likely candidate to wield The Sword That Ain't, considering he has two Aes Sedai bonded to him) or she will teach the Asha'man respect for Aes Sedai. To work together in the Last Battle, the Asha'man and Aes Sedai must be united. This is partially supported by the fact Min saw an Aes Sedai (Beldeine?) who is going to bond an Asha'man. Rand, I believe, will learn to laugh and cry again by himself - in the next book he is on the run, possibly walking among the "common" people again, seeing the repercussions of his actions first hand.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I kind of like the idea of Rand among the commoners, but in a lot of ways I think Rand is quite aware of how much destruction he is causing as he prepares for Tarmon Gai'don.  I think it is quite possible that Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man to respect the Aes Sedai - this respect will be necessary to work together, and you better believe the Asha'man will not enjoy learning it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: They Won't Like It
body:
<p>I have read the current theories posted and they all seem to overlook the fact that whatever Cadsuane teaches the Asha&rsquo;man, they won't like learning it from her.  That hardly sounds like linking, love, or cleansing <i>saidin</i> does it? For my part, I think she will be the one to unmask Mazrim Taim as Demandred. I don't think any of them would like the idea of having been trained by one of the Forsaken.  Or worse, knowing that others of the Asha&rsquo;man have sworn themselves to Taim, and will end up being the dreadlords the Asha&rsquo;man were created to fight.  Cadsuane is already linked to Taim.  She helped capture him the first time, and it seems likely that their next encounter will be pretty memorable.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> That has always been my problem with a lot of various ideas about what Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man - it will have to be something they do not like.  And you are certainly right, I cannot imagine the Asha'man will like learning they have been learning from one of the Forsaken.  I will look forward to Cadsuane and Taim meeting each other - hopefully that will be a scene in Book 9...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Taint and Cadsuane Sedai
body:
<p>I have been kicking around an idea for quite a while now. That idea is that the original prison of the Dark One was not made by the Creator, but by Aes Sedai. We all know that it was two Aes Sedai who bored the hole during the Age of Legends (Lanfear and I forget what male Forsaken was with her). It seems to be pretty commonly accepted that the Creator is all-powerful. Thus it stands to reason that anything he made should not be able to be destroyed by man. Another hint along my line of reasoning is the fact that this battle has been fought countless times before. So, does that mean the Creator makes a new prison for the Dark One every few thousand years when the Light vanquishes the Dark? I don&rsquo;t know about you, but I don&rsquo;t think that is the case since the Creator will not even take a direct hand in the conflict.</p><p>So, for the sake of my argument, I&rsquo;m going to assume the prison was human made. It would have obviously been made with the One Power, BOTH sides of the Power. Now, when the bore was mended in the Age of legends, only <i>saidin</i> was used. So, in essence, we had the Hundred Companions and the Dragon forcing a seal into place with only half of what was needed (you know...  "If it doesn&rsquo;t fit, force it"). I&rsquo;m not so sure that the taint on <i>saidin</i> is anything other than a reaction between the original prison and the flawed seal that was placed over the bore. It was merely accepted by the whole world that the taint was from the Dark One. The fact that the forces of the Dark say it is so does not really sway my beliefs. After all, they are all liars, right? I&rsquo;m not so sure I believe in this myself, but it is certainly a possibility in my eyes.</p><p>Now for Cadsuane. I have two ideas about her. One is the fact that she may have possession of a ter&rsquo;angreal that has the same use as Mat&rsquo;s fox head medallion. If I remember correctly, Cadsuane is always VERY careful with her hair ornaments. Maybe it&rsquo;s just that she likes them, but maybe it&rsquo;s for another reason. In T he Path of Daggers on page 275, she is having a discussion with Alanna. Alanna becomes either frightened or angry when Cadsuane mentions her crime of bonding Rand. When Alanna embraces <i>saidar</i>, mention is made of Cadsuane that she makes no effort to reach the source and that, "One of her dangling hair ornaments, intertwined golden crescents, was cool on her temple."  Hmm... Strikes me as mighty familiar although there is a slight hole in it... Mat&rsquo;s only gets cool when he is actually channeled at, not just because <i>saidar</i> has been embraced nearby.</p><p>My other idea about Cadsuane is that she believes she knows the cause of the taint. On page 274 of <i>The Path of Daggers</i>, she is found doing embroidery. On that embroidery is the image of a man&rsquo;s hand holding a cracked seal. I&rsquo;ll quote what makes it obvious to me that she thinks the seals are causing the taint: "The major image on her piece of embroidery was finished, a man&rsquo;s hand clutching the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai. Cracks ran across the black-and-white disc, and there was no telling whether the hand was trying to hold it together or crush it. She knew what she intended, but time would tell what was truth." Since this was a much discussed topic in earlier theories (and I believe the seals cause the taint), it is highly believable that Cadsuane knows too. After all, she DID know about the problem with Callandor through the study of ancient writings. Might she have stumbled across this as it seems Harid Fel did?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I definitely agree that there is something going on with Cadsuane's hair ornaments - hopefully we will find out what that is in Book 9...  I also think that Cadsuane might have a clue as to what the problem is with the seal on the Dark One's prison, and what is causing the taint.  My only question is why Rand and the Asha'man would dislike Cadsuane teaching this to them...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Of Course It's Linking, Silly!
body:
<p>Really, it summarizes a lot of what other people's theories have covered.  But first my premise.  Suppose that the linking with men that Cadsuane has learned/pioneered requires the men to surrender control. She learned this in all her encounters with men, after bonding them Warder-style, something that kept them alive long after gentling.  Back to surrendering, though.  This is something women learn to do in order to wield <i>saidar</i> or enter a link.  Men on the other hand must fight <i>saidin</i> for control - there is no surrender.  And we know what a hard time Nynaeve had truly surrendering!  If my premise is correct, this is going to be very difficult for the men.  They must surrender control to a despised Aes Sedai.  This in turn requires respect, some humility, acting like humans instead of psychopaths, and treating the "despised" Aes Sedai as equals.  Which means they will ultimately become male Aes Sedai. Segue into Elaida's prophecy - Aes Sedai walking upon the ruins of the Black Tower.  (Read out loud in an increasingly loud voice, preferably standing...) The Black Tower, reduced to the Asha'man sworn to Taimandred, will be destroyed in fire and ruin and the survivors sent fleeing to Shayol Ghul by female and male Aes Sedai!  (Gasp - Shudder) What, what happened?  I feel all sweaty.  Hey, did I just have a Foretelling...?  Cheers and, to paraphrase Stevie Wonder, "WoT'ers - keep on WoT'ing."</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Why do I have a hard time imagining that it will be as simple as linking?  I think it is because Asmodean thought it was a pretty simple thing - he thought Moiraine or even Egwene could have reasoned out the method of linking between a man and a woman.  I like the idea of Elaida's Foretelling relating to the end of the Black Tower led by Taim...  That could certainly be the eventual fulfillment of that particular prophecy...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Cadsuane - the Truth
body:
<p>I am re-reading the last book right now, and I finally hit a passage which makes a few things clear...</p><p>What will Cadsuane teach the Asha'man?</p><p>Simple Answer:  That the Dragon Reborn is flesh.</p><p>I take this passage straight from the book, where Sorilea is talking with Cadsuane:<blockquote>Cadsuane drew breath.  A chance she would have scoured anyone else for taking.  But she was not anyone else, and sometimes chances had to be taken.  "The boy confuses them", she said.  "He needs to be strong, and makes himself harder.  Too hard, already, and he will not stop until he is stopped.  He has forgotten how to laugh except in bitterness; there are no tears left in him.  Unless he finds laughter and tears again, the world faces disaster.  He must learn that even the Dragon Reborn is flesh.  If he goes to Tarmon Gai'don as he is, even his victory may be as dark as his defeat."</blockquote>It is right there, clear as day...  For her to teach Rand this, she would have to teach all of the Asha'man as well...  We all know the Asha'man don't like how she treats Rand already, and that Rand doesn't like it either...  I believe it will just get worse, especially if Sorilea starts helping her...</p><p>I know there was some discussion on the trinkets in Cadsuane's hair...  And I believe that they must be (or at least one of them) just like the medallion that Mat wears around his neck.<blockquote>Alanna stiffened.  The light of <i>saidar</i> suddenly shone around her.<p>"If you wish to be truly foolish." Cadsuane smiled, a cold smile.  She made no move to embrace the source herself.  One of her dangling hair ornaments, intertwined golden crescents, was cool on her temple.  "You keep a whole hide at present, but my sufferance is not infinite.  In fact it dangles by a thread."</p></blockquote>Obviously here, Alanna tried to do something to Cadsuane with the One Power...  Since this is seen from Cadsuane's view, we do not know what.  We do know that, though, because the hair ornament went cold, just like the medallion.   Where it says she made no move to embrace the source herself implies that there would be a reason to (such as Alanna trying to do something to Cadsuane - possibly a trick learned as a novice - such as Compulsion).  It seems that any one of the events could be just happenstance (Alanna surrounded by <i>saidar</i>, ornaments going cold, Cadsuane not embracing <i>saidar</i>) but all three together suggest, almost prove the fact that she is not worried about Alanna doing anything, because she has an ornment such as Mat's...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think we may have found someone who likes to use periods more than me...  I agree that Cadsuane will end up teaching Rand (and the rest of the Asha'man) that they are people just like everyone else.  I do not know whether or not Alanna actually channeled at Cadsuane, because I have a hard time imagining Cadsuane allowing someone to channel at her without doing something back.  But I agree that Cadsuane's hair ornaments are somehow similar to Mat's medallion.  Time for some more periods................  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Old Linking Theory Again
body:
<p>This idea has been bandied about by a lot of people, but I think that one of the things  Cadsuane will teach the Asha'man is linking.  But I also think that she will teach them that by linking with an Aes Sedai and allowing her to control the flows they can postpone madness.  This goes along with what Cadsuane told Rand about Callandor, that it can only be used if he is linked with two women and one controls the flow.  It seems to me like she was trying to soften him, so to speak, over the idea of linking with women and allowing them to control the flows.</p><p>Also, there has to be something involved with the One Power that Cadsuane uses to keep male channelers alive longer, and the Asha'man would definitely not like letting women control their power.  I'm not saying that it's the only thing she will teach them, but it makes sense to me.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is true that the Asha'man might not like the idea of linking with a single woman (seeing as the woman would control the flows).  Obviously, most of the Asha'man are not exactly trustful of Aes Sedai...  Somehow, though, it seems like it will be more complicated than this.  Maybe I am just being stubborn, but I think it will be more along the lines of teaching Rand and the Asha'man that they are still human.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Cadsuane is Black Ajah
body:
<p>In <i>New Spring</i>, Moiraine runs into Cadsuane, and at the end of the story, Moiraine comes to the conclusion that Cadsuane is Black Ajah. And that she must find the dragon before Cadsuane does. And I quote: "Any sister can be Black. I think Cadsuane is." (<i>Legends</i>, Page 712)</p><p>This should open up an interesting debate, on whether or not Cadsuane can be trusted. She has done many things that do not seem to be in Rand's best interest. Maybe she is plotting against him. Maybe if Moiraine comes back, she and Cadsuane will have a showdown of sorts. Lots of interesting thingscan be stirred up from this.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Personally, I think it unlikely that Cadsuane is Black Ajah.  After all, we have seen a little bit of the story from her point of view, and there was no indication that she is Black.  I think it more likely that a young frightened Moiraine misinterpreted some of the things that Cadsuane did.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: A Possible Cause of the Taint
body:
<p>It has been stated that just before the Dark One was sealed he tainted <i>saidin</i>. I believe this is possibly a weave of the True Power that is unseen.  Moridin stated that the True Power could not be felt or seen.  This would be why only those linked to the Dark One are immune...  Thus as the Dark One is the father of lies perhaps the True Power is not just from him, but useable to any who know how to tap it.  Of course I could be wrong.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is possible that the taint might be a weave of the True Power, but who would be powerful enough to make such a weave?  It seems more likely the taint is somehow related to the way the Bore was sealed.  I like the idea, though, that the True Power, the ties to the Dark One, and the immunity to the taint might all somehow be related.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Theory About the Taint Destroying the Seals
body:
<p>I think it very possible that the seals are destroyed by the taint of the Dark One.  When the Hundred Companions sealed the Dark One&rsquo;s prison only male Aes Sedai were included, thus the counterstroke of the Dark One not only drove them to madness, but also started to corrupt the Seals.  Heartstone is known to absorb every energy human beings can use or channel, whatever.  But the Dark One&rsquo;s power lays beyond the universe and is thus no part of the actual energies in our universe.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This an interesting idea.  Most theories argue that the seals cause the taint.  Perhaps the taint is causing the weakening of the seals.  That would explain the weakening of the cuendillar , when any Aes Sedai will tell you nothing can break cuendillar.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Song of the
body:
<p>This is a fairly strange theory, but possible.</p><p>Deduction 1:  In the beginning of <i>The Eye of the World</i>, Moiraine uses a staff to "help concentration."  Logically, she wouldn&rsquo;t use the staff to help concentration when channeling if the concentration aid didn&rsquo;t help her channel. Since an <i>angreal</i> is an object that helps you channel, it is logical that Moiraine's concentration aid, since it helps her channel, is an <i>angreal</i>.</p><p>Deduction 2:  Although this is an example which is not from Randland, the concept still holds.  Monks in monasteries sometimes chant or sing to help them concentrate on worship.  Logically, songs and chants help concentrate, and, as I have shown in Deduction 1, an aid to concentration is a type of <i>angreal</i>. Therefore, a song can be a type of <i>angreal</i>.</p><p>Deduction 3:  The Tinkers are searching for a special song.  Since it is mentioned several times, it is probably important to the story.  Since a song can be an <i>angreal</i>, and the Tinkers are searching for a special song, it is logical to guess that the special song is a special <i>angreal</i>.  Special <i>angreal</i> are called <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>. Or maybe it is a <i>ter&rsquo;angreal</i>.</p><p>Deduction 4:  Assuming all of the above is true, Rand will have to sing the special song, or have someone else sing it at the Last Battle, to either let him channel more vast amounts of the One Power, or as a <i>ter&rsquo;angreal</i> which does something I will not even try to deduce.</p><p>Of course, everything I said here might be completely wrong, except for "This is a strange theory."  Robert Jordan may have some totally different plan for the song, but I still feel that it must be sung at the Last Battle, for whatever reason.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I love the theories that start with, "This is a fairly strange theory..."  I do not know that Moiraine&rsquo;s staff was an <i>angreal</i>.  It might have simply been an aid for concentrating, or a part of that weave.  Think about when an Aes Sedai throws a fireball - no living Aes Sedai can throw a fireball without a throwing motion.  Maybe using a staff is just how Moiraine learned the weave.  I personally think the song is something akin to what the Ogier and Aiel used to use during the Age of Legends to aid farming and such, but who knows?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Idea Concerning the True Power
body:
<p>Just a thought...  If the True Power can be connected to the Dark One,  might there also be a True Power that is connected to the Creator?  Perhaps something that might be accessed by those who serve the Creator, in a similar manner as the True Power might be accessed by those who serve the Dark One.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> If there really is such a group as the Lightfriends, it would seem plausible they might have access to such a tool.  After all, the Creator talks like the Dark One - why not give his highest servants access to some sort of True Power as well?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Taint, the True Power, and the One Power
body:
<p>I have an idea about the origins, roots if you will, of the One Power, and the True Power.</p><p>The One Power turns the Wheel, therefore it must have its roots in energy. The Power itself is the essence of energy in the World of the Wheel. Although they may not realize it, the people of the Wheel experience contact with the Power every day. When drawn upon by humans it is distilled and changed into a temporary, physical thing that can directly effect the world.</p><p>The True Power, here on out known as the Dark Power for reasons revealed later in the theory, is death itself. It is the essence of destruction and evil. It did not effect the World of the Wheel directly, until the Bore was drilled and the Dark One touched the world. It gives him his god-like powers, yet it also stems from them. The taint on <i>saidin</i> is a weave of the Dark Power, able to be undone by any who can touch the Dark Power. It is maintained by the Dark One&rsquo;s constant contact with the seals and therefore with <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>As has been theorized before, I also believe that the Creator has a sort of Power that can be dealt out to those extremely loyal Lightfriends. This will be known as the True Power, because it is the only True Power in the universe. (Maybe I should call it the Jenn Power!) The True Power was used to create energy and therefore to create the One Power. If used, the "weave" known to humans as matter, maintains itself. One could literally create something out of nothing with the True Power. While you may say that the One Power can be used to create, say, fire, that fire only maintains itself if tied off, and it remains energy. The True Power is much like the Dark Power in that it stems from the god-like powers of the Creator, while he uses that Power to create and therefore giving him those god-like powers.</p><p>That&rsquo;s all for now.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow.  Not much I can say about that one...  This theory sums up a favorite idea of mine, though - the existence of a "True Power" accessible only to the Lightfriends.  If, of course, the Lightfriends exist.  Which I think they do...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: What Is the Taint?
body:
<p>Before I start on this theory, let me make a few definitions of terms I will be using. For this theory, a soul is the part that the Wheel weaves out into a new body and the spirit is the memories/personality developed during that incarnation. I also feel that Shai&rsquo;tan is a very powerful spirit, with no body or soul.</p><p>I believe that when Lews Therin and his Hundred Companions sealed Shai&rsquo;tan, they had to construct something that would hold his spirit captive. They used the seals, but Shai&rsquo;tan&rsquo;s counterstroke caused their spirits to be bound to <i>saidin</i>. This drove them mad, and since their spirits are still bound, causes all other users of <i>saidin</i> to come into contact with the spirits of Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions. I recall Verin saying that most men going mad complained of "voices" in their heads. These are the spirits that are still bound to <i>saidin</i>.</p><p>Only by destroying the seals will the spirits be released, and <i>saidin</i> cleansed.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know if it is right or not, but this is a great theory.  Why is Lews Therin always screaming for the seals to be broken?  Because he wants to be set free...  Very interesting idea.  Also, I think it was Cadsuane who asked Rand if he was hearing voices yet, and this theory would explain that as well.  Nice idea!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The One Power, True Power, Seals, Taint
body:
<p>My theory on the One Power helps to explain what and how the taint works.<ul><li>First picture a river-this is the One Power</li><li>Second think of mud at the bottom of that river-True Power</li><li>Third imagine rocks at the bottom of the river-seals</li></ul>Now with that said, when you put all that together you get a river with rocks at the bottom (rocks churn the water and mix the it with the mud).</p><p>If you followed this you would have guessed that the taint and the True Power are one and the same. That&rsquo;s right the taint and the True Power are the same. I think the seals channel the True Power as well as the One Power (just like the Bowl of the Winds channels both <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>). This channeling causes the One Power and the True Power to mix. Women do not feel the taint because of how they us the One Power. Women draw the Power to them - this acts as a filter because they can only draw the One Power. Men on the other hand reach out and seize the One Power - this causes them to grab both the One and True Power at the same time. Furthermore, I think anyone (who can channel) can use the True Power. But without proper training it will cause madness, just like the One Power. If you remember back in the first book, the One Power (if channeler is not properly trained) will cause headaches (that will kill the channeler).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I love people&rsquo;s theories about the taint and such!  This is a very interesting theory - nice analogy, by the way.  This is certainly a possibility.  The only argument I have is that I do not think the One Power causes madness if someone is not properly taught - I think of it more as their mind cannot handle what it is doing without proper training.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Way the One Power Works
body:
<p>I would like to add to my theory about the roots of the One Power. While the Power, when untapped by humans, is pure energy, it takes upon a new form when channeled. I have discussed this point already, but I would like to clarify the "distilled" form that <i>saidar</i> and <i>saidin</i> take on.</p><p>When woven (I think that&rsquo;s a word), the Power is no longer energy itself, but a means by which to manipulate energy. The weaves would not work if there was no energy or matter around. Exempli gratia: If you could channel and you were in space, a weave of Air wouldn&rsquo;t do anything. The described feeling of the air turning to jelly around someone is correct. The weave effects the air in such a way that it takes on a different form.</p><p>Air, Water, and Earth manipulate matter more than energy. I arrived at the conclusion that all Five Powers manipulate rather than create energy when Jordan described that when working weather, one draws the water from the air with Water. I figured that all the Five Powers do this. It's completely logical that Air changes and/or manipulates air, that Water changes and/or manipulates water, and that Earth changes and/or manipulates earth. But what about Fire and Spirit. Fire certainly doesn&rsquo;t need fire around to do stuff. All Fire needs is the general kinetic energy that occupies all matter. The weave simply draws upon that energy and transforms it into fire. Spirit draws on the life-energy of the living thing upon which the weave is used.</p><p>Woven <i>saidar</i> and <i>saidin</i> manipulate and change the pure form of the Power is all I was trying to say.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Sure...  Really, I have never put too much thought into how the Power works.  Probably my scientific nature, this topic can be a bit too philosophical for me...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Taint is
body:
<p>Some Definitions:<ul><li>People are just threads of the Pattern incarnate, thus the re-incarnation of people through time.</li><li>The Pattern has two controlling halves, the One Power and the True Power. By preventing the Dark One from touching the One Power he can&rsquo;t control the Pattern. But the Dark One can manipulate threads of the Pattern (re-incarnating people) using the True Power. The reason that the One Power is split between male and female halves is so that no one person can have that same amount of control over the Pattern.</li></ul>Some Theories:<ul><li>In Shayol Ghul people can&rsquo;t channel because the prison there prevents touching the One Power.</li><li>The seals were created using only <i>saidin</i> and they are crumbling because they weren&rsquo;t created using <i>saidar</i> as well. Jordan&rsquo;s clue to us is that Callandor (note: <i>saidin</i> <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>) is also flawed and it takes two women to correct it. Callandor also only created with <i>saidin</i>?</li><li>Just like when Rand was being held captive with <i>saidar</i> and only the constant flows were able to hold him, but what Lews Therin said when he was imprisoned was that if something is tied-off there are flaws that can be weakened and eventually broken, and even constant flows can be broken, like they were, if they are hardened and "defined," instead of being soft and indistinguishable. Obviously the Dark One&rsquo;s prison was tied-off, but because of the lack of experts of <i>saidar</i> (women) the seals were created with flaws on that half of the power. Somehow the Dark One was able to manipulate the building of the seals so that drawing from <i>saidin</i> is surrounded by <i>saidar</i>. The reason that men hold one half and women the other of the Power is described in definitions. Apparently the side effects of drawing on some of the other is madness. Or is it simply becoming more one with the Pattern and being able to hear past voices across it?</li><li>Since being bonded the taint has been stronger with Rand. Probably because of the added influence of <i>saidar</i>. Also, when Asha&rsquo;man bond Aes Sedai they gain a sort of "domination" over them because men have to get through <i>saidar</i> to even touch <i>saidin</i>. In <i>The Path of Daggers</i> the Asha&rsquo;man were having trouble controlling <i>saidin</i>. <i>Saidar</i> must have been stronger there for some reason (the statue  <i>saidar</i> <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>?) and thus making it more difficult to touch <i>saidin</i> because of the stronger barrier, and then when they do it sort of "snaps" into place.</li><li>Some Asha&rsquo;man can feel when a woman is touching <i>saidar</i> but women can&rsquo;t feel when men touch <i>saidin</i>. The tingling that the Asha&rsquo;man feel is due to the taint being <i>saidar</i>. Rand feels the tingling more because of his strength and length of time he&rsquo;s been channeling.</li><li>Balefire destroys threads because it uses all five parts of the One Power and is used the same from both <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>, thus the double vision Rand is experiencing after the clash of Balefire at Shadar Logoth. Hmm... same from the True Power if the stranger was Moridin? If the stranger was Moridin and using the True Power then that would somehow explain the double vision Rand is having because of the two halves of the Pattern colliding and trying to negate each other which can&rsquo;t happen. Is Moridin possibly having problems with channeling lately (haven&rsquo;t seen him in a while to know either way)? Possibly the two halves of the Pattern are trying to merge when he tries to touch <i>saidin</i> and then they go back to normal after a while?</li></ul>Are there two halves to the True Power drawn from the Dark One? Using my definitions I would have to say yes, otherwise the Forsaken would be able to manipulate threads like the Dark One... But then again the True Power is drawn from the Dark One so it could be one source but limited by the Dark One.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmm...  There are one or two things I have to disagree with.  The most important is your comment that the seals were created with <i>saidin</i> only.  The seals were actually made with both <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>.  I do not know how that affects the rest of this theory.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Taint
body:
<p>The answers to the cause, effect and resolution of the taint are easy. The taint is the Dark One&rsquo;s counter stroke to his being sealed in his prison. Here is how it happened.</p><p>As we know from reading "The Strike at Shayol Ghul" and the Guide, male and female Aes Sedai worked together to created the 7 cuendillar disks that were intended to act as focal points for the seal on the Dark One&rsquo;s prison. Sometime before the attack on Shayol Ghul the men and women began to divide in opinion over how to resolve the matter. The women began the believe that the plan was rash and not well thought out. Lews Therin refused to believe and attacked Shayol Ghul as originally intended. When the seal was laid in place a massive weave was tied off with the seven disks as the focal points. The important fact that you must keep in mind is that it IS a weave that still exists. As long as the seals exist the weave exists. When they are destroyed, the weave will no longer have anything holding it together and the Dark One&rsquo;s prison will again be opened.</p><p>How does any of this have to do with the taint you ask? Simple. The men and women had to have known that no weave tied off would be able to hold the Dark One by itself. They knew this and planned for it. They planned to use a weave that remained connected to both sides of the power, constantly drawing from it for the strength to maintain its hold. It actually turned out that only the male half of the source was connected to the weave because the women would not assist Lews Therin in the attack.* It is through this weave that the Dark One is able to touch <i>saidin</i>. This is also the reason that the Hundred Companions instantly went mad. When they were actually connected to the weave the Dark One was able to reach through it and touch their minds directly, driving them instantly and irreversibly insane. Ever since that time the Dark One has continued to lay his filthy taint on <i>saidin</i> by fingering through the weave on his prison.</p><p>Keeping all of that in mind it is apparent that to lift the taint one must remove the Dark One&rsquo;s access to <i>saidin</i> . At this point the only way to do that is to destroy the weave that is holding his prison together. The only way to destroy the weave is to break the seven seals that are the focal points of that weave. All said, break the seals lift the taint. Simple, easy, smart.</p><p>* This brings to mind the question of the weave. Was the weave ineffective because the women weren&rsquo;t there to lend their half of the power or would it just have ensured that both halves of the source had been tainted?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is how I understand it.  The women did not join the men, even though the only alternative plan (the two huge <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>) was shot.  If the women would have joined the men, I believe it would have worked.  The Guide seems to say (I am working from memory at the moment) that without the women (and hence no linking) that the weave could not be as precise.  I certainly think that breaking the seals is the way to remove the taint.  My opinion would be with the women participating, the weave might have worked and neither half of the True Source would have been tainted.  Who knows...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The True Power
body:
<p>Several theories have touched on the possibility of a Power that is granted to certain individuals favored by the Creator. These individuals have been deemed the "Lightfriends" by some, and I totally agree with this point.</p><p>The True Power is the power delivered to high-ranking Darkfriends, such as the Forsaken. However, one must remember that while most civilizations refer to the entity Shai'tan as "The Dark One," Darkfriends refer to this entity as "The Great Lord of the Dark," which seems to be a more glorious title. I believe that the True Power they use is just a name they (Darkfriends) have coined. There is more evidence of Darkfriends renaming titles the general populace has used to titles which seem more grandiose (ie the Forsaken call themselves "The Chosen"). It is very well possible that the real True Source is something completely different.</p><p>There is a quote that seems to provide overwhelming support for a True Source used by Lightfriends:<blockquote>"Mierin had said today was the day. She said she had found a new source for the One Power. Female Aes Sedai and male Aes Sedai would be able to tap the same source, not separate halves." -from <i>The Shadow Rising</i>.</blockquote>This is what Rand learns in the <i>ter'angreal</i> at Rhuidean, and it seems to be undeniable proof of a Power available to both men and women.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think at the time Mierin thought this was what they were about to drill into.  What Mierin (and Beidomon) were actually sensing was a place in the Pattern where the Dark One&rsquo;s prison was thinner.  Obviously, Mierin discovered that what they drilled into was not a new source of the Power, it was something very different.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


