# w_theory

created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: About the Taint and the Seals
body:
<p>I was reading over some old theories, and came over one that referred to Moiraine talking with Lan about the Prophecies of the Dragon. She said, "What 'wound of madness and cutting of hope' has he healed?" The person who wrote the theory thought it was talking about Rand's two wounds being healed, but suddenly I realized that "the wound of madness" was (of course) the taint on <i>saidin</i>, and the "cutting of hope" was cutting the hope of keeping the Dark One sealed away - breaking the Seals. That proves that the taint lies in the seals, and that they must and will be broken before Tarmon Gai'don.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Sounds pretty reasonable to me.  I do not think this has been posted in the Theory Post before, but it has grown to the point where I can no longer be sure of much...  <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Black Cords
body:
<p>The question of what exactly the black cords are and do has been bugging Wotists pretty much from the very beginning of WoT.  We first saw them on Ishamael at the end of <i>The Eye of the World</i>.  We have since seen them on Ishamael in <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> and Asmodean in <i>The Shadow Rising</i>.  Here&rsquo;s what we know for sure: they have only shown up on male Forsaken and they have only showed up in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> (the Skimming place is part of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> if you didn&rsquo;t know).  Many thought that they were links to the True Power, but Jordan has said that they have nothing to sowith the True Power.</p><p>We do not know for a fact that female Forsaken do not have them, but we have seen both Lanfear and Moghedien in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> multiple times without either showing any sign of them.  And the argument that it takes men to see the male cords and women to see the female cords doesn&rsquo;t work because female channelers have seen Moghedien in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> many times and she didn&rsquo;t have any black cords.  So, while not certain, it seems quite likely that only the male Forsaken have the black cords.  From Rand&rsquo;s point of view at the end of <i>The Shadow Rising</i> it seems fairly clear that the cords cannot be seen outside of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, though they can be sensed.  So, for the rest of this, I&rsquo;m going to assume that the black cords are only on the male Forsaken and that they can only be seen in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>.</p><p>I had thought that they might be the link to the Dark One that grants the Forsaken immortality, but since they only appear on male Forsaken, that seems rather unlikely.  You could argue that they are what grant the male Forsaken immortality and that the females have a different link that don&rsquo;t look like cords, but no one has seen anything strange on the female Forsaken that suggests itself as such.  There is also the problem that the cords are not always the same size.  If they were the source of the Forsaken&rsquo;s immortality, why would they change size?  There is no good reason that I know of.  The problem of the changing sizes is what gave me these two ideas.</p><p>1)They are what protects the male Forsaken from <i>saidin</i><br />2)They are the links to <i>saidin</i> for the male Forsaken</p><p>If you&rsquo;ll notice, the cords vary in length depending on how much the Forsaken is channeling.  The more he is channeling, the thicker they are.  This would also easily explain the instances in <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> that we have seen male Forsaken without the cords.  The first one was Asmodean in <i>The Shadow Rising</i>.  If he wasn&rsquo;t channeling, there would be no need for the cords. Whether the cords are the protection or the link with <i>saidin</i> itself, doesn&rsquo;t matter for this.  The cords wouldn&rsquo;t be visible if Asmodean wasn&rsquo;t channeling.  And there was no evidence of him channeling.  The other instance is with Rahvin. No one saw the cords on him. Rand wouldn&rsquo;t have seen them because he didn&rsquo;t see much of Rahvin. They were chasing each other around and glimpses were the most that Rand would have gotten. The other case with Rahvin is when Nynaeve saw him right before he died.  We don&rsquo;t know if women can see the cords, but since he didn&rsquo;t appear to be channeling at the time, we don&rsquo;t know.  He was using <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> against Rand at that point, not channeling.</p><p>So, the question is whether the black cords are the links with <i>saidin</i> or whether they are the protection.  For the first to be true, the cord must somehow know how much protection to give the man.  And the second reason requires that something be making the links visible.  Ideas can easily be found for either one.  I&rsquo;m more inclined to say that the second one is true and that the One Power flowing through it is colored black by the Taint.  That would explain why the cord from the Eye in <i>The Eye of the World</i> was silver.  The second one also makes more sense from the standpoint of the silver cord.  The silver cord certainly wasn&rsquo;t protection.  It was pure <i>saidin</i>.  But if the cords are black because of the Taint, why doesn&rsquo;t every male channeler have them?  From what Asmodean said, it&rsquo;s pretty clear that they&rsquo;re a connection to the Dark One in some manner.  I really don&rsquo;t have a good answer at this point.  But I have come to the conclusion that the cords are caused by the male Forsaken channeling and that they are related to protecting him from the Taint.  Perhaps I&rsquo;ll come up with some better arguments to inject into this, or maybe you will.  But until we get more information, it will probably be a mystery that&rsquo;s unsolved.  There&rsquo;s just too little to information at this point to come up with definite answers.  It&rsquo;s almost completely theoretical at this point.  I hope that we get more information in future books, but we&rsquo;ll just have to wait and see.  Hopefully this theory of mine sheds some light on the subject.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Okay, this is a long theory and this just popped out at me.  But your idea number two seems incorrect, because if I remember correctly (I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up in the books! <img src="images/oh.gif" /> ) Rand actually cuts through Asmodean's black cords when they are fighting in Rhuidean.  And after that Asmodean can still channel, it is just that the taint can now reach him.  So I would certainly be inclined to think it has something to do with their protection from the taint on <i>saidin</i>.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Out, Logain In
body:
<p>A lot of people seem to think that Taim is truly Demandred in disguise, but this is not a view I share for reasons I will not go into here.  In any event, as the Wheel turns, certain things seem to happen in a similar fashion.  It seems likely that some men will become jealous of Rand, in much the same way men became jealous of Lews Therin.  I think that Taim is a man like Demandred, who will turn to the Shadow to get out of the Dragon&rsquo;s shadow.</p><p>Who better to get rid of Taim than Logain?  He already knows how to channel, and is very strong in <i>saidin</i> .  This could be the future that Min saw in Logain&rsquo;s future - getting rid of Taim and rebuilding the Black Tower to be loyal to Rand, not Taim.</p><p>I think that Taim and Logain are on a collision course, but I do not see either of them dying.  I think Taim will head to the Shadow and Logain will take over the Black Tower.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I agree that Taim is not Demandred, but is more a man like Demandred.  This is an important distinction, and a good one.  As to the rest, I like the idea and think it would be a great scene if Taim and Logain face off.  I am not sure if it will happen or not, though...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Logain Of Course...
body:
<p>I think Taim is Demandred.  As we all know Demandred was jealous of Lews Therin, because Lews always did the things Demandred wanted to do. Lews led the army against the Dark One and a lot more.  I think that Demandred/Taim will try to turn Rand&rsquo;s army against him and the to Dark One.  And this is where Logain shall get his moment of glory, which Min speaks of.  Logain will actually tear apart Demandred/Taim&rsquo;s plans, and then earn his way to <i>Callandor</i>.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think Logain might come along to ruin Taim&rsquo;s plans if he is in fact sworn to the Shadow.  But everyone knows I do not think Taim is Demandred...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Demandred Ain&rsquo;t Taim
body:
<p>Those who know of me know that I am totally against the theory that Taim is Demandred in disguise.  Mazrim Taim was about during the first book and at that point only a few of the Chosen were freed of the Bore, and Demandred wasn&rsquo;t one of them.  Taim is probably the first new Dreadlord or possibly a new Chosen candidate considering the thinning out process that Rand has introduced to their ranks.  As for Logain, well we know he is destined for glory and I think that it will come in the fashion of finding out that Taim is working for the Shadow and he denounces him.  This starts a war in the Black Tower and as Elaida saw in her foretelling, the Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire.  Logain will become the new M&rsquo;Hael and Rand will probably give him <i>Callandor</i> as a symbol of his faith, and thankfulness for saving at least some of his Asha&rsquo;men.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Is the plural of Asha&rsquo;man "Asha&rsquo;men?"  Just wondering...  As for the theory, I agree.  I like the idea of Rand giving Logain <i>Callandor</i> as a sign of faith.  Now if I can just convince you Sammael really is dead...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Logain=Tamyrlin
body:
<p>I agree with the Taim/Logain face off, but unlike some other theorists here, I believe that Logain will kill Taim.  Whether or not Taim is Demandred or not won&rsquo;t matter, I think Logain will kill him.  It&rsquo;s unreasonable to think that only Moiraine, Rand, and Nynaeve are powerful enough to face off with a Forsaken and come out on top.  I think that Rand will give <i>Callandor</i> to Logain, who, if Cadsuane is right about the restrictions, is the perfect candidate to safely use <i>Callandor</i> along with his two "bonded" sisters.  Before the Last Battle, Logain will be instrumental in dismantling the Red Ajah and be raised as Tamyrlin in the new "co-ed" Hall of Servants.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Can you imagine being a Red if Logain becomes Tamyrlin.  That would be a most unpleasant situation.  I think Logain as Tamyrlin would be a good choice, while Rand sort of goes into early retirement after saving the world and such.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim and Logain
body:
<p>I absolutely refuse to believe that Demandred is passing himself off as Mazrim Taim. There is too much evidence to support the impossibility of this. Taim I think will do one of two things.<ul><li>He&rsquo;ll turn to the Shadow, there&rsquo;s too much hatred of Aes Sedai, envy for Rand&rsquo;s place as the Dragon Reborn, and desire for power. The Dark One could use these as a lever to pull him into the fold.</li><li>Unlikely, but considering the plot twists already, not impossible is the possibility that Taim, resentment and all, will stay faithful to Rand and be a great hero. Rand&rsquo;s belief in duty and responsibility to people he&rsquo;ll never know, I think, will show Taim that there&rsquo;s more important things in life.</li></ul>Logain&rsquo;s glory will come at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don. I think he&rsquo;ll save Rand&rsquo;s life and sacrifice himself to save the Light.</p><p>There will be conflicts between the two false Dragons but nothing lethal. Maybe even a grudging respect will develop.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Somehow I cannot see Taim and Logain getting along.  Maybe that is just me.  The Shadow has plenty of ways to swing Taim over to their side, but Rand&rsquo;s commitment to duty (as well as the fact that he is an extremely powerful ta&rsquo;veren) might keep Taim fighting for the good guys.  Who knows for sure?  I can think of one person...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Just a Thought
body:
<p>It is unlikely that Taim is Demandred because, if I remember correctly, we the readers knew of Taim before most of the Chosen were freed. However, Taim is like a contemporary Demandred, and will possibly turn (or may already have) to the Shadow for exactly the same reasons Demandred did. Some things parallel from Age to Age, right?</p><p>As for Logain&rsquo;s involvement in events to come, I can speculate several possibilities.</p><p>Perhaps Logain will ally with Rand and face Taim. It is a reasonable assumption that Logain would have some respect for Rand because we see in <i>The Eye of the World</i>, we see Logain notice Rand watching him from a distance in Caemlyn as Logain was being paraded in front of the crowd. Logain sensed something important in Rand. I believe Logain would be the victor of a confrontation with our esteemed M&rsquo;Hael.</p><p>One or two of the prophecies, I forget whether Min's or Egwene's, gives a scene in which Logain steps over the body of Rand and assumes command, but the body of Rand crumbles and appears to be hollow. Perhaps there will be a struggle, possibly including Rand, Logain, and Taim, and Rand will somehow win, but assume the body of Logain. I say this because if the struggle is for power, the war probably isn&rsquo;t over yet, and I find it unlikely that the Dragon (if Rand is really the Dragon) would die before Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don. Assuming a new identity might throw people off of Rand&rsquo;s scent for a time and unburden him a bit. Hey, stranger things have happened. Besides, Rand was marked twice to live and, ahem TWICE to die... ;)</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> More of this theory seemed to fit here than in the Taimandred area, so this is where I put it.  I like that you think Demandred is not Taim - that always earns points in my book...  I think a fight involving Rand, Taim, and Logain would be pretty interesting, and would certainly have a pretty large impact on the plot.  And it might very well be what Min&rsquo;s viewing refers to...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Re: Just a Thought
body:
<p>I agree that Taim is like Demandred, but I disagree that Rand will take over Logain&rsquo;s body. I doubt that Rand would die in the struggle for power with Taim, because then they would lose the Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don. It is true, that Rand is marked "twice to live and twice to die," but him living (Age of Legends) and him now, could be that he lived twice and died twice?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think that Lews Therin living in the Age of Legends and Rand living now would fulfill the twice and twice prophecy.  I would be extremely surprised if Rand does not die at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don or soon after.  I would be even more surprised if he stays dead.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Lord Dragon Taim?
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<p>For this theory it doesn&rsquo;t really matter if Taim is Demandred or not, or even if Taim is a man like Demandred, or not. The only thing about Taim I take for granted is that he is a Darkfriend. Proof of this shouldn&rsquo;t be too hard to find, look for it yourself.</p><p>I believe Taim will try to claim himself as the Dragon Reborn. Or turn the allegiance of the Black Tower away from Rand and towards him and the Shadow.</p><p>Egwene&rsquo;s vision shows Logain stepping over a dead Rand, but when Egwene touches Rand, he shatters like a paper puppet. This might mean Taim will disguise himself as Rand with a weave of Illusion. Touching an Illusion shows it for false. If this is the case, Logain might be the first of whom can see inverted weaves, or he might be able to read residues. There are too many mights, so I think the vision of Rand shattering on touch is more theoretical.</p><p>Taim will pose as the Dragon Reborn (that was the Black Ajah&rsquo;s plan in the first place) and Logain will uncover his plot and kill him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is certainly an interesting possibility.  I do not know whether or not Taim will claim that he is the Dragon Reborn or not, but I certainly think he will attempt to turn the Black Tower against Rand.  Your Illusion idea would certainly be a possible explanation for Egwene&rsquo;s dream.  Good thoughts!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Rand Becomes Logain
body:
<p>I believe that Rand dies in the Last Battle but somehow takes over Logain's body and comes back to tie up some loose ends. This is based mainly on a Foretelling I don&rsquo;t see mentioned much (Nicola&rsquo;s foretelling, what else could it be, in "Dreams and Nightmares" - <i>Lord of Chaos</i>) and the dark prophecy from <i>The Great Hunt</i>.</p><p>I don&rsquo;t understand Nicola&rsquo;s Foretelling completely but the lion sword, the dedicated spear and she who sees beyond are Elayne, Aviendha and Min and I think he who is dead yet lives is Rand. The great battle done but the world not done with battle, the land dived and the rest suggest the story does not end with Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don. The guardians balanced by the servants and the future teetering on a blade&rsquo;s edge suggest a struggle between the white and black tower, possible another breaking.  I have no idea what three in a boat means.</p><p>I know there are a lot of assumptions here and I may interpreting this a little to literally. Rand may die before the great battle, but the important part is that Rand is "he who is dead and yet lives" and that there is still work to but after the last battle.</p><p>The second part is where Logain comes in. I don't think Loan is a good guy. Everything he does seems slightly twisted to me. I think when Rand dies he somehow takes over Logain's body (maybe Nynaeve helps). I think we have already been shown this can happen. I believe Isam controls Luc&rsquo;s body. The dark prophecies tell us that one is dead, one lives but both are. It also says that Isam waited in the high passes - ambush? In <i>The Shadow Rising</i> when Perrin puts an arrow though Isam (the Hunter) in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod Luc is the one wounded. The attacking Trollocs shouted Isam, not Luc or Isam and Luc. Lastly Luc claimed he was heir to a Borderland throne. Luc was heir to the Cairhien throne. All of this suggest to me that Isam has some how taken over Luc, we see no evidence of Luc&rsquo;s personality in Lord Luc.</p><p>Another point - Dyelin tells us Gitara sent Luc to the Blight. She doesn&rsquo;t know exactly why he was sent but it must have been to help Rand in some way. Possibly it was to show Rand that he could take another body if he needed to. That is a stretch - I know it could be anything, but I don&rsquo;t think we have seen the last of Rand&rsquo;s uncle.</p><p>Min&rsquo;s halo viewing could be glory that Rand has using Logain&rsquo;s body (I don&rsquo;t know if the viewing would follow the body or the soul but if Loan is still in there somewhere it wouldn&rsquo;t matter). I don&rsquo;t think it comes from Logain using <i>Callandor</i>, at least not as himself. I could be wrong of course, the song at the end of <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> says, "it was written that no hand but his should wield the Sword held in the Stone, BUT he did draw it out and his glory did burn the world." Wasn&rsquo;t glory to burn the world Min&rsquo;s exact phrasing when she describes Logain&rsquo;s glory?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> A very interesting theory.  I definitely think there will be some problems after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don when the White Tower and Black Tower try and get together, but I never really thought it might cause another breaking.  That would be interesting, though.  I think it is entirely possible that Rand will end up with Logain&rsquo;s body.  The only thing I know about the Last Battle is that Rand will be alive at the end of it - whether it will be in his body or Logain&rsquo;s is a whole other question.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Not So Bad Guy Triumphs Over Evil?
body:
<p>Okay, here's my line on Logain. First off, we know that he has two Aes Sedai bonded to him with that compulsion-wife weave. We also know from Cadsuane that to use <i>Callandor</i> safely a man must enter a circle with at least two women and have control of the circle given up to a woman. So, as I see it, put 2 and 2 together and get...  Logain using <i>Callandor</i> through commands on his women, frying Taim back to no man's land with a full blast of balefire, possibly saving Rand's life (that is just the way I hope to see it, Rand dead at Taim's hand, then brought back to life when Taim is singed, I have no proof for that though) and becoming the new M'Hael of the Asha'man. This will be done on that revolt Foretold by Elaida, the "Rent in blood and fire" Fortelling, where Taim leads half the Asha'man against Rand while Logain protects the man who is obviously the real Dragon. Remeber, Logain knows the Prophecies, he KNOWS Rand is the Dragon, knows the he will save the world, and will do what it takes to protect the world from the Dark One. Logain isn't evil, he was mistaken. The fact that he wanted to be the Dragon Reborn points out that he wants to save the world, not watch it become twisted in Shadow. Oh yeah, Taim is Aginor and I will believe nothing else till Robert Jordan tells me himself.  :)</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I certainly think that Logain will end up wielding <i>Callandor</i> at some point, quite possibly against Taim.  That would be most excellent...  I really like the idea of a huge weave of balefire bringing a temporarily dead Rand back to life.  Mr. Jordan, if you are reading this - that is my opinion, I think that should happen some time in Book 9.  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Logain and Taim
body:
<p>All right, let's start with Logain.  Will his body be taken over by Rand? I think that it will.  However, I believe that Logain will give his body to the Dragon.  Logain knows that Rand is the Dragon and believes that Rand will save the world.  I also agree with the previous theory that Logain is going to take out Taim and the revolting Asha'man.</p><p>Taim.  He is not Demandred.  He is truly the Black Ajah's boy.  They really did free him, just like the ones who were captured told Egwene and friends at the Stone.  I believe that it is only a matter of time before they put a circle of thirteen along with thirteen Myrddraal and convert Taim&rsquo;s soul.  This hasn't happened yet, but it will.  They can't convince Taim to damage Rand so they'll have to turn him, and that will be when the revolt begins.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think that Logain may very well "merge" with Rand at some point near the end of the series - it makes sense that it would either be Logain or Lews Therin that Rand would merge with.  As for Taim, I think it is quite possible he has some relations with the Black Ajah; the only disagreement I have is that I think they would have used the circle of thirteen on Taim before they released him (unless of course they did not have the necessary ingredients available).<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim, Logain, and Such...
body:
<p>First of all, I would like to state very clearly that I do not believe that Taim is Demandred, for the simple reason that, according to the Big White Book of WoT, Demandred hated Lews Therin so much that I cannot conceive of him placing himself in a subordinate position to Rand (who, in theory, is Lews Therin reborn), because the aforementioned book said that he merely transferred his hatred of Lews Therin to Rand. Seeing as he thought of himself as intellectually superior to Lews Therin, I seriously doubt that he would follow him willingly. However, that he is a Darkfriend, I can more easily swallow. If I am repeating something that someone else has already said, I apologize.</p><p>Now, to continue... Herid Felray mentioned his theory that the Black and White Towers will NOT meld peacefully after the Last Battle is done with. While I cannot refute this, I must remind everyone that eventually they WILL merge into one body, because that is the way it was in the Age of Legends (male and female Aes Sedai working together). So it will have to work itself out somehow.</p><p>The last thing I have to say, for now, is regarding the Taim/Logain battle that everyone seems to anticipate so anxiously. I don't recall anything to dispute the fact that they will fight (or support it either) but if they do, we need to remember one thing: since Logain was gentled and then healed, he is not at his full strength. While the impression I got was that the reduction in strength after the reversal of a stilling is lesser in males than in females, there is still a reduction. I cannot remember a comparison in strength between Logain and Rand, but I do remember Rand testing Taim when Taim first surrendered to Rand, and Rand thought that Taim was very close in strength to him but not quite as powerful. And Rand seems to be generally considered to be the most powerful channeler on the planet. So the only way Logain could win is to have <i>Callandor</i>, or some other angreal (at least that's my theory). Many of you have mentioned this, but were vague in your theories on how Logain is going to attain it. Considering Rand's current state of extreme paranoia and defensiveness, I find it absurd to think that he would just hand over the Sword that is Not a Sword to anyone unless he is VERY sure of that person's loyalty. So we shall see how it unfolds...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, Rand has already trusted someone else to handle <i>Callandor</i>, correct?  But I am thinking that maybe Logain&rsquo;s reappearance will be a little more opportune than that...  Somehow I see Taim and Rand actually fighting (maybe, not sure about this) and Logain stepping in to kill Taim.  I do not really know whether or not Rand and Taim will fight (short of Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don), but I think it would make a very cool scene...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Logain Good, Taim Bad
body:
<p>Okay, of all of the theory posts I've seen, this "thread" seems to be on the biggest wild goose chase.</p><p>Does no one remember Egwene's vision of a man with an obscure face standing beside Rand with a knife to Rand's throat?  That man is almost definitely Taim.  Taim barely conceals his contempt for Rand, and his lust for the power Rand holds.  The vision itself implies a man standing 'beside' Rand in more ways than one.  Not just physically beside him, but beside him as in with regards to fealty.  Rand never trusts Taim, Lews Therin's voice is always telling Rand to "kill him" whenever Taim enters the scene.</p><p>All of this nonsense about Taim being Demandred simply must stop.  I know Demandred is instructed by the Great One to "Let the <i>Lord of Chaos</i> Rule," but to openly go to him and help him raise and train his army of Asha'man?  I think that's somewhat absurd.  Demandred is, in fact, leading the Shaido Aiel (as anyone with a brain can see).  Yes, Demandred could be doing both quite easily, but still, the desired results from both seem to be different.</p><p>I don't trust Taim, though.  His mysterious appearance when the Gray Man comes after Rand is certainly suspicious.</p><p>I simply think Taim is one of the new Chosen of this Age.  I tend to go along with someone else's theory of how Ages are similar, and just like Demanded might have been jealous of Lews Therin's power and influence (thus the reason for him turning to the Shadow), Taim might be the same way, following the pattern of the Ages.  I would be more willing to believe this line of thinking if there were others to mirror the other Chosen as well.</p><p>In any case, I can't believe that Taim is Demandred.</p><p>Logain, on the other hand - that's different.  Logain hates the Reds and after hearing of what the "Tar Valon Tower" tried to do to Rand, he will side with him wholeheartedly.  I highly doubt Logain will get <i>Callandor</i> , though.  If Rand doesn't trust himself with it, can he trust Logain?  Will Rand really give him such a powerful sa'angreal, when he knows that in the giving of it, Logain can overpower him unless Rand uses that other sa'angreal statue with the crystal?  If Rand doesn't trust himself with <i>Callandor</i>, surely he couldn't trust himself in the use of the statue.  In giving <i>Callandor</i> to Logain, he would have to be able to trust himself in the use of the statue to defend himself should Logain turn on him.  Rand would have to give <i>Callandor</i> to Logain with the utter certainty that Logain wouldn't turn on him.  Rand is way too paranoid to do that.</p><p>I DO believe Logain will save Rand from Taim's attempt to kill him.  It won't happen with <i>Callandor</i>, but Taim will probably be distracted by Logain long enough for Rand to overcome him.  Or maybe Logain will reveal Taim for what he really is (a Darkfriend) and will gain Rand's trust in that way.</p><p>Also, just keep in mind what Logain told Nynaeve about when he saw Rand in Caemlyn while he was "on parade" on his way to being Gentled.  Logain saw him, recognized his power, and laughed.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, some parts of your theory I agree with, others I do not...  I certainly agree that Taim is not Demandred.  I also agree that it will be Logain who saves Rand from Taim.  I disagree that Rand cannot trust Logain with <i>Callandor</i> - he will not be affected by the lack of a buffer.  And I think Rand could trust himself with the huge sa'angreal because it is properly buffered.  That is about it here - good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Logain and the Light
body:
<p>Ando'man put forth a theory I had never heard before, but got me thinking. He said that Logain's glory will come at Tarmon Gai'don, and that he will sacrifice himself to save Rand. Min had a viewing of Logain 'surrounded by a halo of light' (something to that effect), she said it meant future greatness. What I'm thinking is that when Logain sacrifices himself to save Rand, (and the rest of the world with him) he becomes one of the Heroes of the Horn... Consequently, legends are written about him, and he is remembered through the Ages as a hero. It may even be Taim the Dreadlord he saves Rand from (because I don't believe Taim is Demandred...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I kind of like the idea of Logain saving Rand (and the world) at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  I do not know who exactly Logain will fight (Taim would be cool, Sammael would be even cooler), but I think this might be a reasonable possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine and Stilling
body:
<p>Here is my idea, and I know that this may sound a bit wacky.  Nynaeve Healed Logain of his gentling, and he&rsquo;s as good as new.  Nynaeve Healed Siuan and Leane of their stilling, and they are weaker.  Flinn Heals Moiraine of her stilling, and she&rsquo;s as good as new.  Maybe it takes a man to Heal a woman, and a woman to Heal a man.  I think that the One Power will partially work if a woman heals a woman, but not as well.</p><p><font color="#000099"><b>wotmania</b></font> says:  This makes quite a bit of sense, particularly if you subscribe to the idea that men need to Heal women who have been stilled and women should Heal men who are gentled.  The only thing that would discredit this theory is if it becomes clear that it matters more which aspects of the Power one uses, and not as much who is doing the Healing.</p><p><center><b>Moiraine will not be stilled!</b><br />Submitted by Asha&rsquo;man Joe</center></p><p>Moiraine is alive somewhere in Finnland.  She will somehow be rescued by Thom Merrilin.  She will be stilled during her rescue.  She will develop a relationship with Thom.</p><p>Ok, these are all theories I can agree with.</p><p>However, I don't think Moiraine will remain stilled. There are two reasons for that:<ul><li>If she is stilled, she will be as young as Elayne, and would then be a "girl" in the eyes of Thom.  I would have a hard time imagining Thom in a relationship with a woman that&rsquo;s barely older than his "daughter."</li><li>The second (and most likely) reason is that Moiraine was one of the most powerful Aes Sedai and they will need her in Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Moiraine being younger might not really be a problem for Thom.  After all, his one-time apprentice was nearly as young as Elayne and he certainly loved her.  I think there is a very good chance Moiraine will return from Finnland stilled.  Hopefully by then Nynaeve and the Yellows will have a better method of Healing a stilled woman.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine and Thom
body:
<p>I believe that the Tower of Ghenjei is one of the most overlooked features of The Wheel of Time.  It is going to play a huge role in the book(s) to come.  What makes me say that?  Well, for one thing, the Tower of Ghenjei is mentioned as early as <i>The Eye of the World</i>.  Obviously, Robert Jordan intended for it to play a large role in the series. To which you say, "Whoopity diddly do. He mentioned it in <i>The Shadow Rising</i> when Perrin was hunting Slayer, and that was it.  What&rsquo;s your point?"   My point is that Robert Jordan originally intended for the The Wheel of Time to be a trilogy.  Well guess what.  We&rsquo;re on book eight, and it doesn&rsquo;t look like he&rsquo;s going to be done in the foreseeable future (at least, one can always hope...).  As I&rsquo;ve said many times, if you look at the story arc of The Wheel of Time, it logically would end up being a twelve book series. But Robert Jordan is tired, his wife is tired, and I don&rsquo;t think he&rsquo;ll write that long.  But back to the subject at hand.  The idea being that Robert Jordan just hasn&rsquo;t gotten around to fully utilizing all the stuff he was planning to do in regards to the Tower of Ghenjei.   But you can bet the house that he will deal with it, probably in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.  So what&rsquo;s up with the Tower of Ghenjei?</p><p>We know, for a fact, that the Tower of Ghenjei is a portal to different worlds.  It is not "evil" in the strictest sense of the word, but it is amoral,which is as bad, if not worse, from a human&rsquo;s point of view.  We know that Slayer frequents the Tower of Ghenjei, and that it is difficult gain entrance into the tower.  But that still doesn&rsquo;t answer as to why it is so important.  I say that it is important because its a doorway to Finnland.  And who's in Finnland?  That's right.  Moiraine.</p><p>Moiraine isn&rsquo;t dead.  If you believe that Moiraine kicked the bucket, you need to be reading Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.  Robert Jordan has spent way too much time developing her as a heroine, quite aside from the fact that Moiraine said that she knew the face of her husband better than Nynaeve or Elayne knew the faces of theirs.  So, she is currently in desperate need of a rescue. But that leaves the questions of when, why, where, who, and how. Allow me to illumine you.</p><p>WHEN:  I&rsquo;m not one hundred percent sure that her rescue will occur in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.  But it&rsquo;s a good bet. IMNSHO, that will be the cliffhanger that ends <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.  Moiraine and her rescuer are just about to escape, when something untoward happens.</p><p>WHY:  Aside from the obvious, Moiraine needs to be rescued for a very simple reason.  Being in Finnland, for any length of time, is torture for an Aes Sedai.  Recall her reaction to Finnland in <i>The Shadow Rising</i>.  Now imagine months of being trapped there...  No wonder she was dreading her fate.  In some ways, it was worse than death.</p><p>WHERE:  As I mentioned earlier, the Tower of Ghenjei is a gateway to Finnland.  Which is very important. We are only currently aware of two ways to get to Finnland.  One leads to the Snakes, the other to the Foxes.  The Foxey doorway was destroyed.  That only leaves the Snakey doorway.  There has to be another way into their alternate dimension.  I say that the Foxes and the Snakes are two different sides of the same coin.  Did you notice the hallways?  The hallway for the Snakes was curvy.  The hallway for the Foxes was straight.  Chaos and Order.  How cute.  Did you notice symbols on the doorways, and how they were described?  The Snakey ones were wavy lines, the Foxey ones were triangles pointed down.  Hmm...  Perhaps symbols to help guide your way through the Tower of Ghenjei?  Fun,ay?</p><p>WHO:  Well, lets see here. Moiraine has always been fascinated by gleemen.  How many gleemen do we know?  Thom has been commenting almost since time immemorial as to what a "fine" woman Moiraine is.   Awww....  How sweet.  Moiraine needs a hero.  And much as I hate the guy, its going to be Thom. "Why him," you ask?  Well for one thing, Egwene has a vision of Thom pulling Moiraine's blue pendant out of a fire.  As for the other... Well, have you read any Greek Mythology here lately?  If you have, do you remember a Greek hero called Orpheus?  He was a bard.  Who played the harp. And entertained the Argonauts on a long sailing trip. Gee, does that sound like anyone we know?</p><p>Orpheus was mentioned in many mythological escapades, but chief among them was his descent into Hades.  If you aren&rsquo;t familiar with it, here&rsquo;s how it goes.  Orpheus'&rsquo; wife, Eurydice, dies.  Angered, Orpheus became determined that he will alter the course of fate.  He strikes out for Hades, descends into the underworld, convinces Charon to row him across the Styx, and lulls Cerberus (a giant two headed gate keeping junkyard dog) to sleep.  No sweat right?  There are several versions of the story from this point, but the one that I like best goes like this.  Orpheus then proceeds to introduce himself to Hades.  (Some guy, eh? "Hey, you probably don&rsquo;t know me, and I&rsquo;m a nobody mortal, but I thought I&rsquo;d just stop by and say hi to the king of Hell minus an invitation.")  Amazingly, Hades knows who Orpheus is, and persuades him to play his harp.  Porsephina  (Hades&rsquo; wife) is enchanted (apparently the night life in Hell leaves something to be desired) and convinces Hades to grant any request that Orpheus might have.  Orpheus, in true heroic fashion, asks for his wife&rsquo;s soul that he might save her from Death.  Hades agrees, with one condition. She can leave, but she can&rsquo;t look back...  Yup, you guessed it.  While Orpheus is leading Eurydice out of Hades within sight of the exit, Eurydice trips and looks back.  She is immediately transported back into the depths of Hades, and all was for naught.  Sad story, ay?</p><p>And just why is Thom an allusion to Orpheus? One, because Robert Jordan is fascinated by mythology. Two, because there are parallels between Thom and Orpheus.  And three, because Moiraine is in Aes Sedai Hell as I mentioned earlier.  But Robert Jordan has been known to deviate from mythical conclusions in his allusions (read "The Three Ta&rsquo;veren").  Moiraine and Thom will make their escape, unlike Orpheus and Eurydice. That leaves the how.</p><p>HOW:  Well, sometimes Robert Jordan gets caught up in his own brilliance.  But hey, it&rsquo;s fun, so who am I to argue?  Remember that game that Olver plays?  What was the name of it?  Ah yes...  Snakes and Foxes.  Snakes and Foxes is a child&rsquo;s game because kids don&rsquo;t realize that you can&rsquo;t win.  Unless you cheat.  (In correlation to that, Birgitte says there is only one way to beat the Finn. You cheat)  And how do you cheat?  That's right.  The key is in the ditty that is recited before the game is played.</p><p>The first item mentioned is "courage to strengthen." You remember when Mat went through the Snakey doorway?  He was scared out of his mind.  And the Snakes were arrogant and intimidating.  Rand went in aggressively, and he said that they seemed a little afraid of him.  When Mat goes through the Foxey doorway, his guide is very arrogant.  Until... Yah, that&rsquo;s right, until Mat insults him.  The Fox gets angry, but he leaves Mat alone.  So, obviously, cheat item number one that Thom needs to obtain is: courage.</p><p>The second item mentioned is "fire to blind."  We are given evidence of  this by Rand.  He says that when he was leaving the Snakes, he formed a sword made of the Power.  All the Snakes shied away from the sword.  To paraphrase: "They wouldn&rsquo;t look at it.  It was almost as if it scared them."  So how is Thom going to cheat with fire?  Well hmm... Lemme think.  What was that Illuminator&rsquo;s name...  Ah, Aludra, that&rsquo;s it.  And what was Aludra working on the last  time Thom talked to her?  Yup.  Fire sticks.  Cheat item number two that Thom needs to obtain: fire sticks.</p><p>The third item mentioned is "music to daze."  We are given a slight hint as to this when Mat talks to the Foxes.  He hums while thinking about his "luck."  Robert Jordan is tricky.  Pay attention.  Cheat items number three that Thom needs to obtain: his harp, high chant, and a copy of Rogosh Eagle Eye.</p><p>The fourth item mentioned is "iron to bind."  They aren&rsquo;t bothered by steel, we know that much.  Why does iron bother the Finn?  The same reason it bothers fairies in Irish myth.  For whatever reason, iron bugs the heck out of them.  (By the way...  Notice the etymology of "Aelfinn"... Gee, it doesn&rsquo;t sound a bit like Gaelic...  Robert Jordan cracks me up)  Cheat item number four that Thom needs to obtain: a hunk of iron.</p><p>In summary, this is what is going to happen.  Thom goes to the Tower of Ghenjei, cheats, and he and Moiraine escape.  But what about Lanfear you ask?  That, my friends, is an essay for another day.  [Remember, I&rsquo;m not infallible...  Just pretty darned close. =)]</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, that was a long one.  Most of this is probably correct, other than Moiraine being rescued at the end of <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.  Maybe in book nine...  Of course it will be Thom that rescues Moiraine, I do not think there is much doubt about that.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine, Thom, and Mat
body:
<p>I totally agree that Thom is somehow going to get into the Tower of Ghenjei to save Moiraine, but I would like to put forth that Mat has to go along with him for it to work. After his two trips through various doorways, Mat is pretty ticked off at the Snaky Foxy people, right? He&rsquo;s got a personal vendetta against them that he&rsquo;s mentioned several times. So if anybody&rsquo;s going to the Tower, it&rsquo;s going to be Mat, and he&rsquo;ll probably enlist Thom and maybe some other folks to go with him on his venture. While they&rsquo;re in there, they&rsquo;ll rescue Moiraine (who probably was stilled, she was throwing around huge amounts of the Power and the Finn are pretty clear about that). But it was Mat who used Aludra&rsquo;s fire sticks before, remember? He broke into the Stone of Tear with them. On the basis of that alone, lots of people have said he going to invent the machine gun, but I just think he&rsquo;s going to take his fire sticks (fire), his anger (courage), his big spear (iron, right?), and his gleeman.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Do you think Mat will be able to enter the Tower of Ghenjei?  I am not saying it is impossible, but Mat has not really shown any inclination of attempting such.  Come to think of it, does he even know the Tower of Ghenjei is another entrance to Finnland?  Perrin knows, and Birgitte knows, but sometimes the folks in Randland do not always share information they should.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine's Future Life
body:
<p>It seems to me that a lot of people believe that Moraine will be stilled. With this I disagree. Thom will save and marry her, but why does she have to stilled. As every one seems to believe, Jordan does not put anything into the story without a reason, so why the bit about Owyn? He was Thom's relative and he could channel and in the book the belief is that channeling is passed down through bloodlines. So then wouldn't it be possible that Thom can learn to channel? This would allow Moraine's character to continue as a heroine.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have often wondered about that...  There are a couple others who might be able to channel as well, at least in theory - Galad (Rand's half brother), Gawyn (his mother and sister can both sense <i>saidar</i>), and Mat (his sister can channel) come to mind quickly.  But that is getting off the subject...  I think it would be an interesting twist if Thom learns he can channel, allowing himself and Moiraine to live happily ever after (assuming there is channeling after Tarmon Gai'don...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine is DEAD
body:
<p>I believe that Moiraine will not come back to life or be rescued by Thom, but Min says that Rand will need the help of a dead woman. I believe that Moiraine is dead and that she will help Rand win the Last Battle.</p><p>Here is how:<ul><li>SHE IS DEAD</li><li>She has killed two Forsaken, Be'lal and Lanfear (apparently)</li><li>She is becoming a legend among Aes Sedai</li><li>People who accomplish extraordinary things in there life are considered heroes (you getting it?)</li>'</ul>So I believe that Moiraine will come back as a hero called by the Horn, and in doing that she will fulfill Min's prophecy.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is an interesting idea, and one that I believe might be new to the Theory Post.  But if Moiraine is to be called back by the Horn of Valere, how do you explain Egwene's dream of Thom pulling Moiraine's blue jewel out of the fire?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine and Gandalf
body:
<p>I have read a bunch of theories about Moiraine that say she will come back stilled, if she does come back, and I have to disagree. I'm not going to use anything from WoT as evidence - instead I am going to use Tolkien's <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>.  Moiraine Sedai and Gandalf the Gray play similar roles within their respective worlds. Both Gandalf and Moiraine are the Guides.  Both at some point seemingly died.  (I used seemingly for lack of better term, since we don't yet know if Moiraine is actually alive.) Gandalf the Gray came back as Gandalf the White. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he came back more powerful then he was before he seemingly died.</p><p>That is why I have to disagree with those who believe Moiraine will come back stilled. If she does come back stilled (and Nynaeve's ability to Heal stilling can't return Moiraine to at least equal power), then there probably wouldn't be much point in bringing her back, as the power she gained as Guide will be lost if she is at least not as strong as before.</p><p>However, I don't doubt that she could have been stilled. I just don't think she will come back stilled.  Perhaps the Finn will recognize what she has done by killing Lanfear and will grant her more power than she had before.</p><p>Of course, Jordan can take any course he wants, but I think this is pretty good evidence that shows Moiraine Sedai will come back at least as powerful as she was, and perhaps even more powerful then she was.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Clearly there are similarities between Moiraine and Gandalf, but I do not know how closely Jordan plans on following Tolkien's story in this regard.  It would be predictable (and pretty lame) if he followed right along and brought Moiraine back as an extra powerful Aes Sedai.  I also disagree that it would be pointless to bring Moiraine back if she was less powerful.  Her greatest asset was not her strength in the power, but her ability to help Rand (and the fact that he actually listened to her, usually).  I think it would be an interesting twist to the story if Moiraine came back weaker in the Power than she was previously.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine will not be stilled!
body:
<p>Moiraine is alive somewhere in Finnland.  She will somehow be rescued by Thom Merrilin.  She will be stilled during her rescue.  She will develop a relationship with Thom.</p><p>Ok, these are all theories I can agree with.</p><p>However, I don't think Moiraine will remain stilled. There are two reasons for that:<ul><li>If she is stilled, she will be as young as Elayne, and would then be a "girl" in the eyes of Thom.  I would have a hard time imagining Thom in a relationship with a woman that&rsquo;s barely older than his "daughter."</li><li>The second (and most likely) reason is that Moiraine was one of the most powerful Aes Sedai and they will need her in Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Moiraine being younger might not really be a problem for Thom.  After all, his one-time apprentice was nearly as young as Elayne and he certainly loved her.  I think there is a very good chance Moiraine will return from Finnland stilled.  Hopefully by then Nynaeve and the Yellows will have a better method of Healing a stilled woman.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Ishamael
body:
<p>I think that Moridin may be Ishamael in disguise because in <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> , only a body is left behind after he is killed.  Also, it is mentioned that Moridin has similar features to Rand.  Ishamael was first among the Forsaken when he was alive, keeping the others together in their common goal.  In <i>The Path of Daggers</i>, Moridin seems to be named Nae&rsquo;blis, and he is drawing the remaining Chosen together to fulfill the Dark Ones plans for the Dragon.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think there is a lot of "may" about this - Moridin is almost certainly Ishamael.  I do not recall it saying anywhere that Moridin looks like Rand, though that would have little to do with whether or not Ishamael is Moridin.  There was never any mention of Ishamael looking like Rand.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Ishy/Moridin
body:
<p>Moridin is most definitely Ishamael reborn.  I seriously doubt that the Dark One would resurrect Aginor and Balthamel and not his champion Ishy.  There are too many things that point to Moridin being Ishy reborn such as the plans that he has set in motion, his access to the True Power and the two mindtraps that he casually wears around his neck.  Only Ishamael, who for 3,000 years kept the Dark One&rsquo;s best interests at heart would be aloud such power and favor.  Also, he has a good understanding of the time period and of Rand, and only Ishamael had many dealings with Rand, other then Lanfear or course.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> My feelings exactly.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Definitely Ishamael
body:
<p>I&rsquo;ve come to firmly believe Ishamael=Moridin.  Obviously, he is from the Age of Legends from the many references to it that he gives.  So he is either a Forsaken or an Age of Legends guy who was stuffed in a stasis box.  To name him Ishamael, there is the True Power clue, the trust of the Dark One in being named Nae&rsquo;blis and holding the mindtraps, and his cooperation with Shaidar Haran.  Also, there is his philosophical and strategic outlook which is in accord with what we know about Ishamael.  I wonder whether Moridin&rsquo;s rage at losing knowledge about past turns of the Wheel, is about the Dark One&rsquo;s resurrection process costing him some of his memory (as Aginor earlier noted).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Not much argument in this section...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moridin IS NOT Ishamael Reborn
body:
<p>It is quite obvious that Ishameal is not Moridin. He is Shaidar Haran.  Let&rsquo;s look at this.  Ishamael was the Dark One&rsquo;s greatest servant ever.  This would definately give him a great position of power.  He certainly would have been Nae&rsquo;blis, had he not died.  The Dark One never takes any sort of failure lightly.  These prospects fit Shaidar Haran perfectly.  He has the authourity of the Dark One himself, but, he cannot stay from Thakan&rsquo;dar for very long.  Moridin, on the other hand, is a mystery still.  He is currently the Nae&rsquo;blis, and can draw the True Power.  Truely, this is a person of high power, and very old.  But still quite a mytsery.  The Dark One, however, would not have given such power to anyone who let themselves be killed.  Take Osan&rsquo;gar and Aran&rsquo;gar.  They were both killed Forsaken.  Even though they were given bodies back, they had strict restrictions placed on them.</p><p>As a side note, I think that Cyndane is Lanfear. Several reasons.  Lanfear was the second most powerful Forsaken there was, and Cyndane is more powerful than Greandal.  No one knows what happened to Lanfear, but going to the land of the &lsquo;finn, and being a Darkfriend, she was probly killed.  Cyndane means "last chance" in the Old Tounge.  And Lanfear being killed, and slightly ambiguous on her postion with the Dark One, if given life again, then it would be her last chance. Also, Greandal finds this amusing, leading me to think that Robert Jordan put this in there as a kind of irony, if obvious irony.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There had not been much argument in this section, but with good reason.  Ishamael has been the Dark One&rsquo;s major representative for thousands of years - not to mention fighting the Dragon Age after Age.  Why would Ishamael not be reborn as a man who would be named Nae&rsquo;blis?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: A Third Option
body:
<p>Let&rsquo;s set the scene.</p><p>At the end of <i>A Crown of Swords</i> we have Rand in a tower, Sammael near the Waygate, and Liah on top of the great mound of rubble. A single thin tendril of Mashadar approaches Liah whereas a wave of Mashadar is descending towards Sammael, picking up speed as it fell.</p><p>Now Rand begins to gather the flows for balefire and raises his hand when Liah screams. Key differences here are that Sammael physically turns towards the sound. Rand on the other hand only flashes his eyes towards Liah.</p><p>He whispers Liah, thereby not giving his position away by sound, the only way Sammael can know where he is by feeling <i>saidin</i> . So Rand balefires Liah using one hand only. For less than a heartbeat the shape of her is still seemed to be there, all in stark black and snowy whites, and then she was gone. Compare this when Rahvin bit the dust. Rand used both hands with a beam of molten light thicker than a man. It struck the Forsaken, and Rahvin ceased to exist. The Darkhounds in Rhuidean had become motes before they vanished, etc. Before this, Rahvin simply ceased.</p><p>Now, physics and mechanics as outlined by Robert Jordan throughout this yarn tell me that once you start weave of balefire, then you can&rsquo;t increase or decrease the strength of the balefire unless you stop and create a new weave. The weave that Rand used to destroy Liah is only a hand wide.</p><p>Therefore, even if, and I saw even if, Rand did balefire Sammael, then he would see the same shape outlined all in stark black and snowy whites. However, we know that when Rand looks for Sammael again, he is not there.</p><p>Another point before I go back to the last paragraph. Rand sweeps the balefire down towards the square and stops at the edge of the lake of Mashadar. I repeat, lets go of <i>saidin</i> before the bar of white touched the lake of Mashadar. Robert Jordan makes no mention of balefire sweeping through Sammael or where Sammael was standing. From Rand&rsquo;s point of view, he thinks that Sammael was taken by Mashadar.</p><p>Okay, I think the above dispels the notion that Sammael was balefired by Rand. There has to be another reason as to how Rand was healed and my guess it was Flinn who also was in Illian when Rand returned. This is the most likely reason as to how he was injured, and then not. It also explains why Alanna doesn&rsquo;t think it was a sister as Aes Sedai cannot fell <i>saidin</i> being woven.</p><p>What remains is whether Sammael was killed by Mashadar or he escaped, or a mysterious third option.</p><p>Back in Shadar Logoth, Rand does not see Sammael leave or channel <i>Saidin</i> so he believes that Mashadar got him. Therefore if Mashadar got him, then Sammael is dead. However, Sammael could have used the True Power to escape but we have no indication that anyone other than Moridin/Ishamael/Shaidar Haran (question over the last one here) from Robert Jordan to date. So I think it unlikely that Sammael used the True Power.</p><p>The only other references to Sammael come in <i>The Path of Daggers</i> when the <i>gholam</i> has his point of view. He says that the man who commanded it wanted the man dead, he is referring to Mat as the person wanted dead. Now Melindhra tried to kill Mat with a knife with nine golden bees on it. I previously thought this was a Red herring but after careful thought believe that it isn&rsquo;t a throw off but a key indicator. Also, as opposed to other posters, I can find no fact or lead that inclines me to believe that Sammael has lost control of the <i>gholam</i>. The <i>gholam</i> does not say that its previous master is dead or gone. However, it does make mention of being constrained, which means compelled or forced. It is talking about following the women. It has to follow a human&rsquo;s orders but the <i>gholam</i> is being forced to follow the women as opposed to it making a choice to either go for Mat or the women.</p><p>The other is when Moghedien and Cyndane visit Graendal. Cyndane says to Graendal, do you know that Sammael is dead? (How does Cyndane know? I believe that Moridin told her.) If Graendal did not know Moridin, then I should be able to safely assume that Sammael did not know of him either. Then Shaidar Haran turns up and takes control. Shaidar Haran is acting under Moridin&rsquo;s orders outside of Shayol Ghul. (There has been great discussion about Shaidar Haran and Moridin, but the gist is that at Shayol Ghul, Shaidar Haran is boss, but outside Shayol Ghul, Moridin is boss.)</p><p>Now something that springs to mind when I have been researching this theory is that on the last page of Chapter 40 of <i>A Crown of Swords</i>, Shaidar Haran is spying on Sammael and comments that much was happening outside of the Pattern. If Sammael served chaos all was well, if not... You get the drift. Sammael also says in the preceding paragraph that the Great Lord rewards success, and he&rsquo;s never cared how it was achieved. And Sammael then says he only has to wait for al&rsquo;Thor. We know that Sammael wants to kill Rand, he is not interested in capturing him so Shaidar Haran has to tell Moridin as that is not the Great Lord&rsquo;s wishes.</p><p>So isn&rsquo;t is handy that the people who say Sammael is dead are under the control of Shaidar Haran, who just happened to spy on Sammael in the first place. To Moridin&rsquo;s pov in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>. He is watching Elayne and company leave Ebou Dar and he ruminates on Sammael and thinks that Sammael had never been half as clever as he thought. He himself would not disrupt his plans merely on the off chance.</p><p>Later on he says he would not allow chance slips to spoil his plans now and even further on that he disliked people meddling with his carefully laid plans. Those who did, and lived, lived to pay.</p><p>Some people have made mention of the possibility of a third mindtrap. I will now put forward the theory that Sammael was taken by Moridin (the wanderer) in Shadar Logoth using the True Power. Remember that Rand used a weave called Folded Light when being attacked in Cairhien. Whatever can be done with the One Power should be able to be done with the True Power and Rand wouldn&rsquo;t be able to feel the True Power being used. Moridin probably knew about Sammael&rsquo;s plans because Shaidar Haran told him after Shaidar Haran&rsquo;s spying mission. Perhaps that is why Rand could not see him due to a covering weave or something similar.</p><p>I think that all the happenings at Shadar Logoth were of Moridin&rsquo;s design, allowing him to take Sammael out of the picture by distracting Rand with Liah. Why else was Moridin there, to save Rand from Sammael, and to capture Sammael for not doing the right thing by the Great Lord&rsquo;s orders. Moridin/Ishamael was probably the person who caused Mashadar in the first place as some of my illustrious fellow posters have intimated. So perhaps Moridin has a degree of control over Mashadar even. All this points to me that Moridin has put Sammael under wraps for doing his own thing not acting to the plan set by the Great Lord.</p><p>To end,<ul><li>Sammael was not balefired and those who believe he was need to be balefired themselves.</li><li>Sammael could be dead by Mashadar, which would then maybe allow him to be resurrected by the Great Lord. There could be the option of Sammael becoming a part of Mashadar for all time and therefore not able to be resurrected unless Mashadar was disbanded and the souls set free.He escaped, which I don&rsquo;t think is likely because there wasn&rsquo;t enough time to run or weave a gateway.</li><li>My third option, which I know is a bit out there, but is a possibility that he is in the clutches of Moridin for safekeeping. He will be brought out in due course.</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, that was a long one...  You make one comment I definitely disagree with - that Moridin might be able to control Mashadar.  The evil of Shadar Logoth is completely separate from the Shadow, and actually opposes it; I do not think Moridin would have control over such evil.  Also, all the Forsaken have access to the True Power, they just do not use it because of the inherent danger.  However, I like your idea of the events of that night being orchestrated by Moridin.  Other than the whole Taimandred debate, this is the question I would most like to see settled.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moridin Is NOT Ishamael
body:
<p>I don&rsquo;t think that Moridin is Ishamael reborn. First of all, reagardless of the fact that Ishamael was the Dark One&rsquo;s "champion" (not necessarily), remember that Ishamael has been bumming around for 3000 years totally apart from the Dark One&rsquo;s control. From all indications, he practically thought he was the Dark One. He seemed to have convinced the Trollocs (and just about everybody else, including Rand) of that! Why would the Dark One ressurect someone that has been out of contol for 3000 years, half mad and raving, and living under a pretense of being the Dark One?</p><p>I don&rsquo;t think that the Dark One could trust Ishy with (1) the responsibilty of being reborn and under his command (2) the responsiblility of being Nae&rsquo;blis</p><p>Other item:  Moridin is very laid back and doesn&rsquo;t seem to worry ever about what Rand is doing. Ishamael was extremely worried over what Rand would do!</p><p>I thought Cpt. Sqeky&rsquo; idea of Shaidar Haran being Ishamael was interesting, and may be a possiblity, though I am doubtful.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I still would guess that Moridin is Ishamael, in part because of his knowledge from the Age of Legends.  Also, Ishamael and Lews Therin (or more accurately their souls) have been fighting this battles for Ages.  I do not think it would stop now...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Jain Farstrider
body:
<p>Okay, I&rsquo;m throwing this out as an up-for-grabs and maybe just something to think about. As crazy as it sounds, I&rsquo;ve had this nagging thought that perhaps Moridin is Jain Farstrider. We don&rsquo;t know a whole lot about Jain Farstrider, but his name pops up a whole heck of a lot, and if memory serves me correctly there was a reference to him entering the Blight at one point. I&rsquo;m sure that he bears some significance, because Jordan always reminds you that he existed by mentioning how someone is reading a book called "The Adventures of Jain Farstrider." He wouldn&rsquo;t keep that guy in our heads for so long if he didn't mean to use him for something. So perhaps Moridin is our man?</p><p>One other possibility on the Jain Farstrider issue is that Tam al&rsquo;Thor is Jain Farstrider reborn, which just shoots my whole "Moridin=Jain Farstrider" theory to heck.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would have to agree with your second idea, that Jain Farstrider is Tam al&rsquo;Thor.  Not much else to say on this one...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: He HAS to be Ishy, you Woolheaded Bumpkins!
body:
<p>In order to prove to the stubborn out there I will refer to the text below.  It is from <i>The Path of Daggers</i> , Chapter 2 - "Unweaving" p82:<blockquote>"What had the woman done?  These barbarous rustics offered too many surprises.  A way to Heal being severed, however imperfectly.  That was impossible!  Except that they had done it.  Involuntary rings.  Those Warders and the bond they shared with their Aes Sedai.  He had known of that for a long, long time, but whenever he thought he had the measure of them, these primitives revealed some new skill, did something that no one in his own Age had dreamed of.  Something the pinnacle of civilization had not known!  What had the girl done?"</blockquote>Point One:  In the Prologue of <i>The Path of Daggers</i> Moridin refers to sha&rsquo;rah, how it was ancient before the War of Power, and that only nine people still remembered it.</p><p>Point Two:  In the text above he compares the achievements of the present day "barbarous rustics" with "his own Age," "the pinnacle of civilization."  This has to refer to Age of Legends.</p><p>Side note: I believe the "involuntary rings" refers to the sul&rsquo;dam and <i>damane</i> link through an <i>a&rsquo;dam</i>.</p><p>Point Three:  He says he&rsquo;d known of the Warder/Aes Sedai bond "a long, long time," but the other Forsaken were always described as being surprised when they first learned of it.  This leaves me to believe that the previous theory posted about Ishamael only being partially sealed in the Bore and able to come forth and meddle every so often was probably correct and that Moridin is his current incarnation.  People have argued that the Dark One wouldn't reward Ishamael's failures with a new life, but he's still managed to accomplish more than the  others combined.  Anyway that's how I see it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> That is about how I see it, too.  Personally, I think there is plenty of proof that Moridin is Ishamael.  Also, Ishamael has been the champion of the Dark One for many turnings of the Wheel.  Moridin, as Nae&rsquo;blis, is currently the Dark One's champion.  Combine that with everything else, and there is little doubt in my mind that Moridin is Ishamael.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Shadow Dragon
body:
<p>I guess I should start out by saying that I do not believe Moridin is Ishamael, because Ishamael fought Rand al&rsquo;Thor and lost. While I do not have a problem with the Dark One bringing him back to life to serve again, because of all the things he has done to push the Dark One's plan forward, I do have a problem with the Dark One naming somebody who failed Nae'blis. The Dark One does not reward failure with a promotion. Others have pointed out that Ishamael has fought the Dragon throughout the Ages and so he would be the perfect choice to be names Nae'blis. My thought is that is exactly the reason Ishamael would not be Nae'blis. The upcoming battle is supposed to be THE LAST BATTLE.  Every time I know of when the Dragon and Ishamael fought, Ishamael came up short and so this time I think the Shadow would like somebody who stands a greater chance of defeating Rand and winning the Last Battle.</p><p>So now, you&rsquo;re asking if I don't think Moridin is Ishamael, then who do I think he is. Who would be better at fighting the Dragon Reborn that the Dragon himself. So now, while I am trying to prove my point point, please excuse my not putting page numbers in here, I am doing this off the top of my head with no books handy. I will try to show you that Moridin is Lews Therin's/Rand al&rsquo;Thor's soul who turned to the Shadow in an Age long ago. I am not just pulling this out of a magic hat.  In <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, Fel had a theory that as the Wheel of Time turned the Ages went in circle, so that there was a time when the Dark One was imprisoned, a time when his prison was cracked open, and a time when there was a battle.  He also said that these Ages would be repeated again and again and that some time in the past the Creator&rsquo;s champion had to have gone over to the Shadow. Well then if this was Ages ago, how could this Dragon still be around?  Well one of the reasons for going over to the Shadow was to receive immortality. What else do we know about Moridin? First he can play sha'rah, a game that was ancient during the Age of Legends. Moridin could have learned sha'rah in the Age where he as the Dragon turned to the Shadow which is why it was ancient during the Age of Legends. Second, Moridin is Nae'blis - this could be the title he earned when he turned to the Shadow. Third, Moridin can use the True Power, a power one can only use with permission from the Dark One. Moridin (aka Shadow Dragon) learned to use this when he turned to the Shadow and was taught how to use it by the Dark One.</p><p>Now people are saying to themselves if this Dragon turned to the Shadow and was names Nae'blis, where has he been all this time and why did the Forsaken not know about him? Moridin has the ability to jump into holes in the space/time continuum.  The Forsaken know about these holes, but do not use them because they have a tendency to close behind you and leave you trapped for thousands of years. This is the reason he hasn't been around - some time after he turned, Moridin jumped into one of these holes which closed up behind him leaving him trapped until now.  Either it opened on its own, or the Dark One exerted some influence and opened it for him. One of my best reasons for Moridin being some Dragon who turned came from one of Min's viewings. She viewed Rand touching some guy who appeared to be Rand or someone very similar to Rand and when they touched the two figures shimmered and became one. During the fight against Sammael in Shadar Logoth Rand met Moridin and when they channeled balefire he got very dizzy and now he can't channel anymore very well. I think when they touched their two souls (which are the same soul) created some kind of feedback loop which "short circuited" Rand&rsquo;s ability to channel.</p><p>I know their are probably holes in my logic big enough for an Aiel to walk through, but I have a gut feeling that this is exactly the kind of spin Robert Jordan would put on the story in some future book. Sorry about the length it just took a while to explain my reasoning.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There is nothing wrong with a long theory.  Heck, the Theory Post is filled with them!  A number of people have argued (in various places) that Moridin may be Lews Therin.  This idea really just does not work for me.  But the idea that Moridin might be an older incarnation of the Dragon is certainly an interesting one.  I do not necessarily believe this theory is correct, but it sure would put an interesting spin on things!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Moridin=Moridin
body:
<p>I firmly believe that Moridin is his own character. Why would the Dark One necessarily have to keep his word to the Forsaken, and make one of them Nae'blis? He's evil for Light's sake! Moridin and Shadar Haran are new characters, completely independent of the Forsaken. This would show one of Jordan's themes, that trusting evil is a pretty stupid thing to do. Besides, Jordan had to have enough creativity to come up with a couple of new characters, instead of resurrecting the same characters time and time again. I do agree that Ishamael is still out there somewhere, but I don&rsquo;t think he is Nae'blis. Who knows, maybe out of jealousy for having his position usurped, Ishamael and Moridin will duke it out. That is definitely one battle I would like to see.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> To me, the best proof that Moridin is Ishamael is that the souls of Ishamael and Lews Therin have been fighting for countless turns of the Wheel.  Why would that change now?  I do not think the Dark One would have to keep his word to the Forsaken and make one of them Nae&rsquo;blis.  I think he named Moridin Nae&rsquo;blis because Moridin is Ishamael, and Ishamael (or more accurately, his soul) has been the champion of the Dark One since time began.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Truth About Moridin
body:
<p>Okay, I have carefully read over all the other Moridin theories, and don't believe in any of them. Moridin is not Ishamael's regeneration. Ishamael was half insane when he was killed, almost thinking that he was the Dark One. Moridin, on the other hand, does not think he's the Dark One. He knows it.</p><p>You're all probably laughing right now. "Moridin is the Dark One? Hahaha!!!" But I firmly believe it to be true. I read somewhere that most scholars believe the Dark One is the direct antithesis of the Creator... This is exactly the kind of hint you need to look for in Robert Jordan's writing. That they believe it (rather than knowing it) shows that it is probably not true. (For example: Most people believed that Ba'alzamon was the Trolloc name for the Dark One.) In fact, Moridin/Shai'tan is something completely different.</p><p>Moridin speaks of "his age" as the pinnacle of all Time. Everyone assumes that he is speaking of the Age of Legends, but remember that we only know of three Ages. There are seven total. This leaves four more for anything to happen...</p><p>I believe that during one Age, Moridin's Age, the man who came to be known as Shai'tan gained a LOT of power and began to preach against the Creator. He was an ordinary, mortal man, just like any other. Perhaps he stumbled upon the True Power, an undivided version of the One Power, and claimed it as his own. Whatever happened, he was most likely a channeler of very great strength, but a mortal channeler, nonetheless.</p><p>Now, at the end of his Age (or perhaps some other one) there was a great war, a war which makes the War of the Shadow look like a playground brawl. During this war, channelers managed to trap Shai'tan in a "fold" in the pattern, centered over the location known as Shayol Ghul. And then there was peace, a long, long peace. Obviously, it took a while to rebuild, but the war was forgotten, and the rest of the Ages came and went. (Memory fades to legend, and legend fades to myth... stories can be greatly changed by time, including the original imprisonment of the Dark One.) Until the Age of Legends.</p><p>During the Age of Legends, as everyone knows, a Bore was drilled into this being's prison, because Aes Sedai sensed and desired the True Power. They rediscovered the ancient enemy, who called himself Shai'tan (Shaidar=Dark, so I'm assuming it means "Dark One" in the Old Tongue). The rest is history.</p><p>So no, the Dark One is not a god. He is god-like in his powers, but by no means a god. This is further amplified by this quote from the Prologue to <i>Lord of Chaos</i>:<blockquote>"'...I CANNOT STEP OUTSIDE OF TIME.' For an instant terrible anger filled that awful voice, and - could it be frustration? An instant only."</blockquote>Now, if Shai'tan were TRULY as powerful and godly as the Creator, emotions such as frustration would be far below him. Shai'tan is mortal (or WAS mortal), but is simply far more powerful than anything else before seen in the world. He comes from an Age far more prosperous than the Age of Legends, a time when Aes Sedai (if they were called that) were clearly far more powerful still.</p><p>So here are the Seven Ages, which constantly repeat themselves:</p><p>1) Current Age (Power Forgotten)<br />2) Age of Legends (Power Regained, Shai'tan freed, Shai'tan clumsily re-imprisoned)<br />3) Third Age (Seals weaken, Shai'tan reemerges, Shai'tan [Moridin] killed by Rand)<br />4-6) Plenty of time to develop even further than the Age of Legends<br />7) Someone discovers the True Power. Names himself Shai'tan. Great War. Shai'tan imprisoned.</p><p>And the cycle constantly repeats itself, again and again.</p><p>This may seem a little far fetched, but I strongly believe that it is at least close to the truth. If this "Dark One" were truly as powerful as the Creator, and yet he chose to touch the world, why wouldn't the Creator do the same? And the fact that Shai'tan shows frustration leads me to believe that he is, or was, mortal. Finally, Moridin appears just as the seals become too weak to hold Shai'tan in his prison.</p><p>Moridin is Shai'tan in his true, human form. (Effects within the Pit of Doom are enhanced by the True Power.)</p><p>It's as simple as that.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is certainly an interesting twist on things, one I had never really considered before...  And it certainly would open up one line of thought I find intriguing...  Let us say this is true.  Then let us assume Rand kills Moridin.  Perhaps in the next turning of the Wheel a certain peddler we all know and love would become the next "Dark One."  Just an interesting thought, inspired by an interesting theory.  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Who is Moridin?
body:
<p>Personally I believe that Moridin is Ishamael, but lately I've been thinking of anyone else it might be. I'm not sure anyone really knows who would win an a fight between Moridin and Shaidar Haran (because of Shaidar Haran&rsquo;s blocking abilities, and whether they extend to the True Power as well as the One Power), but I think it would be a hell of a fight, and very close. My theory is this - if Ishamael is not Moridin (who I think he is), then he is Shaidar Haran. With me so far? So, if Ishamael is one, who is the other? Who else could have so close to Ishamael's strength in the Power? The first person to come to mind would be Lanfear. This is of course possible, but I would like to believe she is still alive, so for the sake of a wild theory I'm going to say it's not her. Who does that leave? What I have been thinking lately is Beidomon. Weird, eh? This is why. Other than Mierin (Lanfear), he was closest to the Dark One due to his help in making the Bore. I really don't think Robert Jordan introduced so pivotal a character just to discard him, when he could just as easily have used one of the other Forsaken. So, I think it's about time for Beidomon to be brought into the picture, in the form of (IMO) Shaidar Haran. Chew on that one for a while.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Chewing on it...  Chewing on it...  Tastes like chicken...  Anyway, I have a major problem with either Moridin or Shaidar Haran being Beidomon.  There has been absolutely no evidence of Beidomon anywhere.  And Beidomon and Lanfear were not trying to drill a hole into the Dark One&rsquo;s prison - they were just trying to do some research into what they thought was a different form of the One Power.  My best guess would be that Moridin is Ishamael and Shaidar Haran is a new entity.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Sammael
body:
<p>In this theory, I think that I may be 50/50 in deciding whether or not Sammael is alive.  He may be dead because of the obvious use of balefire against him.  The other theory may be that he is alive.  It is known that the Forsaken have the use of the True Power, as it is drawn directly from the Dark One.  Sammael could have drawn from the True Power to escape Rand because there was time for him to make a gateway before Rand swept the area with balefire.  He would not have been able to sense that particular use of the Power.  So far there hasn&rsquo;t been any evidence to suggest that Sammael is alive.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmm, having a little trouble deciding?  You are correct, Sammael could be dead or alive.  But if I had to lay some money down on this I would have to bet on his being alive somewhere.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Sammael Is Probably Alive
body:
<p>I would say that Sammael is almost certainly alive.  If he were really dead, we would have seem him be balefired, or run through with a sword, or have had a really big rock dropped on him.  However, all that we see is Rand momentarily distracted by Leah, and then turning back to see Mashadar floating where Sammael was.  So is he dead?  Nope, too easy.  I think that Sammael either used the True Power to rip a hole in the Pattern to escape, or else made a quick getaway through the Waygate.  If he did use the gateway, though, he may have had a nasty surprise, since Machin Shin seems to be at every Waygate where Rand is around.  I doubt that this is the case, however, and expect Sammael to make a guest appearance sometime in the future.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Exactly!  Sammael is too major a character to go so quietly.  I like the idea of a big rock dropping on him...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Sammy Is Dead
body:
<p>Okay, I really hate this subject because it is iffy.  But the fact of the matter is that Sammael is dead.  There are a few clues that point this way, the first is the attack itself.  It took Rand, less then a heartbeat to sweep the balefire from Liah to the position that Sammael was standing in at Shadar Logoth.  A heartbeat is less then a second and nobody can move or channel that quickly to avoid death.  The second big clue is his <i>gholam</i> in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>.  The <i>gholam</i> cannot feel the pull of its master anymore and this would suggest that its master, Sammael, is no longer among the living.  The final hint is the Chosen themselves.  We all know that Moridin has eyes and ears everywhere and he was present in Shadar Logoth when Sammy got toasted, his pretties in their matching outfits told Graendal that Sammy was dead and from her point of view she thinks to herself that Sammy is dead and she must distance herself from the debacle that he left behind.  It would be stupid for Sammael to leave a well defended country that he had established himself in, lose his confidant in Graendal, and start somewhere new when Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don is just around the corner.  He is dead and the Dark One can&rsquo;t bring him back either, just except it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I really cannot imagine Robert Jordan killing Sammael in such an inconclusive manner.  Until the series ends with Sammael not coming back, I am going to keep thinking he is out there lurking in the background somewhere.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Of Course He&rsquo;s Alive
body:
<p>It seems fairly obvious that Sammael is still alive. If he had died in Shadar Logoth, Robert Jordan would have made a much bigger deal about it.  The most important thing to remember about Sammael is that he is a military genius.  Specifically, he is a master of defence.</p><p>His ultimate goal is to be around for Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  I suggest that he led Rand by the nose at the end of <i>A Crown of Swords</i> .  He knew Rand would come for him eventually - he planned from the beginning to "die" in Shadar Logoth.  I think he might even have kidnapped Liah so she would be the distraction he needed to escape either through the Waygate or via the True Power.  Think about it; what better way to avoid notice than making everyone think you are already dead.  Given Rand&rsquo;s streak of successful kills of Forsaken, who would question one more?</p><p>There is also more.  Sammael was responsible for Ispan and Falion in Ebou Dar, yes?  When the <i>gholam</i> and the Darkfriends escaped with a few things from the storeroom, among them was a chair.  Could this be the binding chair that Sammael mentioned to Sevanna?</p><p>I think that Sammael has been underestimated by everyone and that he has established himself elsewhere preparimg to move when, and only when, he is sure he can win.  That is exactly how he is described in The World of Robert Jordan&rsquo;s The Wheel of Time.  Demandred is the gambler while Sammael only risks his troops when he is sure of success.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> That about sums it up.  I have a little trouble believing he kidnapped Liah to use as a distraction - I do not think she really had the mental capacity to follow orders.  I like the idea that Sammael is still out and about hiding in the shadows...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Dead For Now
body:
<p>I think that Sammael died in Shadar Logoth.  The <i>gholam</i>, Graendal, and Cyndane all indicate that he died.  Presumably Cyndane got this news from Moridin, who got it from the Dark One.  Certainly the Dark One should know if Sammael lives unless, maybe, Sammael left this world.  Also, his leaving angreal and other goodies in Illian indicate that he didn&rsquo;t plan to go into hiding.  I think that what happened was that Mashadar diverted itself toward Liah.  When Liah was balefired, Mashadar went back several seconds to what it would have done if Liah were not present - inhabiting the spot that Sammael occupied.  So Mashadar got Sammael.  I think that Sammael will be back, either resurrected by the Dark One or as some sort of Mashy/Sammy super-Fain.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Keep in mind, the Dark One does not know everything.  Graendal certainly thinks Sammael is dead, but she does not know for sure.  I still maintain he is not dead, but that is just me.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Sammael&rsquo;s Death a Matter of Balefire Physics
body:
<p>The simple physics of time, fluid dynamics and gravity would tell us that Sammael was engulfed by Mashadar.  Balefire took out a retaining wall and (going back in time some 30 seconds) Mashadar completely engulfed Sammael without the wall to slow its progress.  No power, "true" or otherwise can undo that fact.  Now... as to what it means regarding Sammael&rsquo;s existence?  That makes me asks several questions.</p><p>What would Mashadar do to a Forsaken who was tied to the Dark One, not unlike Fain?</p><p>Mashadar is a powerful evil that fights the Dark One.  Would Mashadar free Sammael from the Dark One, changing him to make him some sort of combination of Sammael and Mashadar; a free-agent similar to Fain, but able to channel?  Or would it destroy him due to his more powerful connection to the Dark One (Dark One gave Sammael immortality and the True Power).</p><p>Fain was possessed by an avatar/associate of Mashadar (Mordeth) that may have provided Fain some form of protection that Sammael did not have when the foggy tendrils engulfed him.</p><p>One thing bothers me about all this...  It is significant that Rand never heard a scream from Sammael (something we always previously heard when Mashadar took a living soul).</p><p>I personally believe Sammael was destroyed.  Not every major character has to go down in a major way - war isn&rsquo;t as neat as a fantasy story.  While some people claim Robert Jordan is predictable, I beg to differ.  He is aware of the untidiness of war.  If I am wrong and Sammael is alive, he is no longer the same being that battled Rand in Shadar Logoth.  He has been touched by Mashadar... a touch that changes a person just as surely as does being touched by the Dark One.  The Sammael we knew no longer exists.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You sound a lot like a friend I have who is majoring in physics - he likes his fluids class a lot...  I disagree that Sammael is dead, but I could certainly be wrong.  Can you imagine what Sammael would be like if he is still alive.  Fain is a pretty nasty customer now - imagine what a transformed Sammael would be like.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Waygate
body:
<p>Okay, shall we remember that where Sammael was standing he was rather close to a Waygate? This certainly is convenient for him, seeing as death was approaching. Rand locked all the Waygates from the outside, but that wouldn&rsquo;t stop any old Forsaken from opening one from the inside. Now, the question is "How the heck did he have time?" Well, perhaps he&rsquo;d already unlocked it, and was carrying that leaf around in his pocket, in which case all he had to do was open the door and step through. Now, that would leave him basically to the mercy of Machin Shin , which could cause an interesting change in our old friend Sammael in the next couple of volumes, but I think that just makes everything that much more fun.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I certainly think Sammael escaped, and the Waygate is the most reasonable explanation.  Perhaps Sammael had someone else on the other side of the Waygate ready to open it up for him.  Then the trick would be to figure out who that way...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Sammael Lives
body:
<p>Sorry folks, but Sammael is just way too cool to die in such a boring manner. Here's how I see it:</p><p>Okay, here's Sammael by the Waygate, there's Rand getting ready to blow him away with balefire. A gigantic wave of Mashadar comes rolling down the hill right at Sammael.</p><p>Now I agree that there is no way Sammael could have escaped without getting hit by that Mashadar wave. But let us take a look at what has happened to other people of intense evil that came into contact with Mashadar.<ul><li>Mordeth:  Now a body-less soul that awaits some idiot to come inside the walls of Aridhol.</li><li>Padan Fain:  Now a completely psycho mixture of Darkfriend-Mordeth-Machin Shin</li><li>Sammael</li></ul>I believe that Mashadar did get Sammael, but he survived. Now he is a totally mutated and horrible evil guy that is far more formidable than the Sammael of old. He did not make a gateway to escape, though. Rand would have felt that. He didn't use the Ways, Rand would seen the gates open, even through Mashadar. (Recall that the Waygate was the only thing that topped the lake of Mashadar, Rand would have seen at least the tops of the gates open if Sammael had escaped through the Ways.)</p><p>The only answer is the True Power. It was remarked that the Forsaken only used the True Power in the direst need, and then they used it very cautiously. I think a ten foot wave of soul-consuming fog is dire enough to use a little True Power to step outside of the Pattern.</p><p>Sammael may not have escaped with his soul, but he escaped with his life.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I hate it when the True Power becomes the explanation for everything we cannot explain otherwise.  However, in this case I think it might be the actual explanation.  You are totally correct - the Forsaken are slow to use the True Power, but Mashadar would certainly be reason enough to use it.  Just wait until Tarmon Gai'don when the leaner, meaner Sammael comes back to surprise Rand.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Sammael Lives!
body:
<p>Sammael is alive. First, there is no way Jordan would remove such an important antagonist by mere implication. Sammael is clever, good on the defensive - would he really fall so easily? Until I see a body, he's alive - regardless of how arrogant Rand is to believe he killed him. Rand didn't actually see what happened, and could only assume he is dead. I believe he staged the whole thing (remember the scene where he was talking to Graendal and opened a gateway to a place remarkably reminiscent of Shadar Logoth, before his confrontation with Rand), for Rand and the rest of the Chosen's benefit. He'll be back to get Rand for taking Illian from him, you mark my words. He gave up Illian far too easily to have been anything but his intent.</p><p>Others believe him dead (Cyndane, Moridin, a <i>gholam</i>), but that doesn't make them right. None of them were at Shadar Logoth, or saw a body. It is to Sammael's advantage that the other Chosen believe him dead, because it will make his schemes simpler. He's also been a loose cannon of late; whilst he doesn't know about Moridin, he can only assume whoever is named Nae'blis will slap him down and try to bring him into line. What better way to divert them than having them believe you are dead.</p><p>Rand didn't feel him channel <i>saidin</i> , and didn't believe he entered the Ways. But don't forget, as one of the Chosen, he can use the True Power - no one but him could detect it. I believe he would be willing to use it to make his plan work, even at the cost it exacts. I also think the Waygate flash was a pre-planned diversion, to distract when Machin Shin inevitably came around. Liah was unexpected, and provided more than enough distraction without Sammael having to do anything. That moment fool Rand spent killing Liah was the moment he could have killed Sammael, but he wasted it. In that time Sammael weaved a gateway to a hideout in Illian with the True Power, and his plan was complete.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Sammael may very well have used the True Power to escape Rand in Shadar Logoth.  Personally, I will not believe he is dead until better evidence comes along to prove he is dead.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Is Sammael Dead?
body:
<p>Okay, please bear with me on this here...</p><p>Everyone here is making a single, fatal, assumption. That they were actually IN Shadar Logoth in the first place!</p><p>Let's look at a few inconsistancies.</p><p>First of all, Liah. He left her there to her fate WEEKS before. If Mashadar can kill so quickly, and leave no trace, how is it that Liah survived not only one night in Shadar Logoth, but many consecutive nights? Why didn't she leave? Find her way out somehow? Oh no... Liah was already dead, my friends.</p><p>Second, this stranger that helps Rand. I, too, believe it could have been Lews Therin. "How could that be," you ask? Simple... But please bear with me a little while longer...</p><p>Thirdly... Everyone is tripping up on the lack of use of any sort of the Power being used... True Power, <i>saidin</i>, <i>saidar</i>, or otherwise. Who says ANY of the Power was used to fake Sammael's death?</p><p>Remember, Rand was running after Sammael through the palace in Illian. Rand had already followed Sammael through reading the weaves of the gateways that Sammael had used previously, correct?</p><p>Okay, so imagine this scenario:</p><p>Sammael, being the master of defense that he is (who is also quite good at evaluating, planning, and scheming), knows that Rand is coming, and has a plan ready for use whenever he needs it. Rand, coming and triggering all of the wards around Illian brings Sammael to him. Sammael makes a statement about not wanting to trash what they're fighting over (I mean, who wants to fight over a rag doll, and end up ripping it in half just because both children are tugging on it so hard?)... To Rand, this fits with what Lews Therin has told him about Sammael, so he only grins, and (foolishly) follows Sammael through the gateway that Sammael had weaved.</p><p>Here's the trick though...  Sammael weaved a gateway into Tel'aran'rhoid's version of Shadar Logoth. Rand andSammael  fought in Tel'aran'rhoid , not in the real world. Liah was merely conjured up bySammael&rsquo;s  mind as a distraction (how convenient, eh?). As far as the "stranger that saved Rand" goes... That, indeed, was Lews Therin; conjured up by Rand's own mind, and dissapearing without a trace of the Power being used. (notice how what Rand did with the Power, the stranger damn near mirrored? Which is why when their balefire touched, it was such a shock.)</p><p>That, my friends, is why the Power couldn't be felt by Rand, both when the stranger left and when Sammael escaped.</p><p>You see, the "mist" that engulfed where Sammael was, was harmless. It was merely a normal mist, conjured up by Sammael's masterful control of Tel'aran'rhoid .  Sammael pulled off a Houdini trick that fooled Rand into thinking he was dead, when he was actually just hiding in the harmless mists of his own mind. *smiles*</p><p>(For those of you that don't get it and need it spelled out... Rand thought that the mist was deadly...  It wasn't... Sammael  is alive.)</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmm...  I cannot recall hearing anything like that before...  It is certainly an interesting idea, though I am not sure how much I buy into it.  I have said it before and I will say it again...  Anything is possible with Jordan, and I feel like this is just the kind of twist he could throw at us...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Regarding Sammael
body:
<p>Just a few points, as there is no way to be certain that he is alive or not until Jordan tells us...</p><p>Arguing that Moridin and others said he is dead is not proof, the Dark One isn't necessarily going to tell his subjects everything even if he does know whether or not Sammael is dead.</p><p>If Mashadar is involved, then it is quite possible that it is able to prevent the Dark One,  Moridin, and company having any knowledge as to the outcome of that night.</p><p>Sammael would be vastly better off with people thinking he is dead than trying to defend Illian.  Rand has proven successful against many of the Forsaken, including the most powerful of them, and always had the intention of destroying Sammael.  As long as Sammael was visible Rand was going to go for him, no matter what his defenses were the odds would be against him. As it is, if he is still alive he has no great concerns, and who is to say he hasn't already set up something pretty major to help him in the future?</p><p>In conclusion, Sammael had motive, and there is no clear evidence against him faking his death.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I agree.  It seems consistent with Sammael&rsquo;s personality to let everyone think he is dead, and let the other Forsaken deal with Rand for a while.  You are right about something else, too...  The Dark One might not know whether or not Sammael survived - the Shadow&rsquo;s minions have showed their hesitation to enter Shadar Logoth.  Even if the Dark One knows for certain, it seems as if he never tells his servants everything anyway.  All in all, I will believe Sammael is alive until Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don ends without him coming back.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim
body:
<p>I am sure that Mazrim Taim is Demandred in disguise.  At the beginning of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, the Dark One gives Demandred instructions that have something to do with protecting and helping Rand.  Soon after, Taim suddenly shows up in Caemlyn.  Taim also picks up things that Rand shows him very quickly. He also knew how to do the test for <i>saidin</i>.  He calls himself the M&rsquo;Hael, an Old Tongue word and seems to know a lot of the Old Tongue for a common Saldaean.  Taim always seems to be there when Rand is in trouble and Lews Therin always mutters about killing Demandred when Taim is around.  Finally, at the end of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, Demandred goes to the Dark One and asks if he has done well, right after the Asha&rsquo;man have established themselves and Taim has rescued Rand from the Aes Sedai.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think anyone can deny that there is evidence Taim might be Demandred, but personally I do not think this is the case...  I think Taim is more a man like Demandred, but with Robert Jordan anything is possible.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim=Darkfriend, Not Forsaken
body:
<p>I think Taim is not a Forsaken but a male channeler wooed to becoming a Darkfriend.  I would think Rand would be able to see the Dark One&rsquo;s black cord running from Taim if he were a Forsaken.  His betrayal of Rand is almost a foregone conclusion at this point.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Has Rand ever seen Taim in a situation where he could see the black cords?  Not sure if he has or not.  I agree that Taim might be a Darkfriend - if he is not already, he has the makings of a man who could turn to the Shadow out of jealousy of the Dragon.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Why Taim Is Probably Not Demandred
body:
<p>I think a good reason as to why Demandred is not Taim is the fact that when he rocked up for Rand&rsquo;s amnesty.  Lord Bashere recognized him.  He had already been caught once by Bashere, but escaped.  He could not have been using the One Power to disguise himself either, as Rand would have felt it.  Of course if it was Demandred&rsquo;s plan to become a false Dragon in the first place to get near Rand...  I think that sounds a bit too far fetched.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> From reading my page I am sure people have gotten the idea I do not think Taim is Demandred.  I hope it does not turn out that way, it will take me an hour to correct all my mistakes...  The one problem I see with this theory is that if it was Demandred he could use <i>saidin</i> to disguise himself without Rand feeling it.  Remember the disguises Moghedien used undetected by various Aes Sedai?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Arrogant But Not Demandred
body:
<p>I don&rsquo;t believe Mazrim Taim is Demandred for one simple reason.  Why would Demandred go through the huge trouble to masquerade as a false Dragon?  After all, even if he does have all the knowledge of the Age of Legends, a stray arrow still could have killed him just the same as anyone else.  I just find it very hard to believe Demandred would take so many needless risks, just to put himself in a position to lead the Black Tower.  I mean, if Taim is Demandred, he could have easily come up with a much safer alternate identity and still led the Asha&rsquo;man, due to his prowess with the Power.  Therefore, I think Taim is Taim, and yes, he is a jerk, and yes, he may even be a Darkfriend...  But he is not one of the Forsaken in disguise.  As always I am open to correction or argument.  This theory is very new to me, as I never gave it much thought until reading some of the other theories on this subject, so there may be some flaw in my thinking that I have overlooked.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You make one good point I have not heard before (that I can recall).  Demandred is certainly talented and strong in the Power.  Why would he choose a false identity which would make his job more difficult?  Just come to the Black Tower, learn quickly, and rise to power that way.  Good point!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Is Demandred
body:
<p>First off Demandred was given orders by the Dark One to let the <i>Lord of Chaos</i> rule and some orders we didn&rsquo;t hear in the prologue of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>.  Then when Taim all of a sudden appears Bashere does not recognize him.  There is also the whole almost smile he sometimes wears - isn&rsquo;t that what Demandred did?  Yes, I thought so.  Taim also wants to be an equal to the Lord Dragon, not second.  Demandred always hated the fact that Lews Therin was always better and Demandred was always second best.  And then there is Lews Therin ranting and raving about killing the Forsaken (especially Demandred) when Taim is around.  I could go on some more but this seems to be enough.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Lews Therin rants about killing all men who can channel, not just the Forsaken.  Everyone who has read the site knows I think Taim is not Demandred so I will stop here...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Dark One Not Connected To Taim
body:
<p>Taim is not a Forsaken for one simple reason.  With all the other forsaken Rand has seen the "black threads" that are the bond to the Dark One.  With Taim he has been around so much when he has channeled and even in one place they where both channeling to see one another&rsquo;s strength and Rand did not see the bond and it has not be said that they can hide there bond and if it had been cut he would either go back to the Dark One or go mad like everyone else - he channels all the time at the Black Tower.  So I think that he is not a Forsaken maybe he will go to the Dark One but because of the bond, or in this case lack of, I don&rsquo;t think he is one now.  Since Rand didn&rsquo;t see the bond.  With trying to find Demandred why can&rsquo;t he be in Seanchan.  The Forsaken are everywhere else.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know if the fact that Rand has never seen the black cords is evidence or not.  Thinking back, I cannot recall an instance where Rand was in a position to see those cords - he can only see them in certain places it seems.  If Demandred is not Taim, he could be just about anywhere...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim/Demandred
body:
<p>There is definitely something up with Taim, you don&rsquo;t need Min&rsquo;s vision to believe that.  I&rsquo;m about 75% sure that Taim is indeed Demandred in disguise.  Why would he go to the trouble of stealing an already pretty famous guy&rsquo;s identity?  Look at what it got him:  He didn&rsquo;t have to rise to a place of power in the Asha&rsquo;man, he was given it almost immediately after meeting Rand.  He didn&rsquo;t even have to work very hard to get Rand to trust him with leadership of the Asha&rsquo;man, he was the only one with any real skill to begin with.  And what better way to cover up the fact that you know so much about <i>saidin</i>.  Mazrim Taim has been channeling for several years at least. Besides, he didn&rsquo;t even take a very big risk when he approached Rand.  Rand said to Bashere, at the end of <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> that "Mazrim Taim is mine."  I think that Demandred was already in Caemlyn at the time (maybe he killed Asmodean) and overheard that, or heard someone else repeat it.  Obviously Rand means to try to work things out with Taim and Demandred seized his chance.  The only thing that really bothers me about the whole theory is that Demandred seems to have some connection with the Seanchan.  That&rsquo;s a big deal in itself, and Demandred would be one busy little Forsaken if he has taken on both jobs.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> There is certainly plenty of evidence that Taim might be Demandred. But I still think it is too obvious, not really Jordan&rsquo;s style.  I cannot wait until this is settled for good - then I can either gloat I was right or rewrite responses to make it seem like I was...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Forsaken Clues
body:
<p>You&rsquo;ve already covered a couple Taim=Demandred clues, so I&rsquo;ll focus on a different one.  The Forsaken have difficulty calling Aes Sedai and Aiel by those Age of Legends names when the institutions have changed so much.  Lanfear calls them "so-called Aes Sedai" to Mat in the White Tower. Lanfear and Asmodean are both bemused by the Aiel when they mention them in the Waste (you could slap a Da&rsquo;shain Aiel all day...). How does this apply to Taim? He calls the Aiel, "so-called Aiel" and "renegade Aiel."  I believe that the "so-called" is exactly analogous to Lanfear&rsquo;s comment.  I realize that it can be explained away, however - see the WoT FAQ refutation.  But what about the "renegade Aiel" remark that Taim makes at Dumai&rsquo;s Wells.  Taim is referring to Rand&rsquo;s Aiel.  Renegade against what?  Against the Way of the Leaf - the Oaths of the Da&rsquo;shain Aiel.  Taim is a Forsaken.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Sometimes Taim does say things which incriminate him, things similar to what others of the Forsaken have said.  The "renegade Aiel" comment is much more difficult to explain away than the "so-called" quotes.  But I still do not think he is Demandred.  Maybe I am just being stubborn, but something about it just does not fit to me...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Some Food For Thought
body:
<p>Here&rsquo;s some more fuel for the fire.  I don&rsquo;t buy Taim&rsquo;s story about how he got one of the seals.  It&rsquo;s too flimsy, I think he offered it just to get into Rand&rsquo;s confidence.  As a Forsaken he could care less who has it since the Dark One will escape no matter what.  Taim&rsquo;s fortuitous appearance when a Gray Man showed up in Rand&rsquo;s throne room.  Did he gain some knowledge that someone had sent the Gray Man or maybe he sent it himself.  Then there is Taim&rsquo;s knowledge of Sammael&rsquo;s plan to defend Illian (p496, <i>Lord of Chaos</i>):  "...what I would do in Sammael&rsquo;s place.  I would have Illian warded in boxes,..."  Lews Therin knows Sammael is more inclined for someone to bring the fight to him because he is a master of defense, but how does Taim know this?  Another fortuitous appearance of Taim at the end of <i>Lord of Chaos</i> at Dumai&rsquo;s Wells.  No explanation is ever given by him on how he knew where Rand was.  This is small, but it is a question that just bugs me.  When Perrin smells any Asha&rsquo;man, there is always a changing of emotions quicker than any other normal person.  This is a sign of the coming madness, but Taim&rsquo;s scent is always stable... why?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Everyone always thinks Taim is Demandred.  Sigh...  I like the point about Taim&rsquo;s scent being stable - the fact that the taint does not touch him would certainly be a reasonable explanation for this.  Maybe one of these days I will be convinced Taim is Demandred.  If I could ask Jordan only one question, this would probably be the one.  Or maybe I would ask how many books this series is going to be...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: If Taim Was Demandred
body:
<p>Well, let&rsquo;s assume that Taim is Demandred for a second.  If this is a fact, then Demandred must have taken the identity of Taim at some point in time.  The man who rampaged through Saldaea was more likely than not just another man who could channel who was looking for a bit of glory for himself.</p><p>Why do I think this?  There are several reasons.  Mazrim Taim started his false Dragon bit at a time when Demandred would have still been imprisoned in the Bore.  The first Forsaken (not including Ishamael) escaped from their prisons, and Aginor and Balthamel were very close to the edge of the Bore, as was stated.  (I don&rsquo;t understand why they aged, having the gift of immortality from the Dark One, but that&rsquo;s another theory.)  Taim would have had to have started his rise to power before Demandred was released from his prison.  But the recognition that Bashere showed means that Taim was, or at least looked like, the man who ravaged Saldaea.  If Demandred were Taim, he would have had to have taken his place just before he introduced himself to Rand.  And he would have had to have stolen Taim&rsquo;s memories, to pass Bashere&rsquo;s test.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Maybe with the Power it is possible to steal someone&rsquo;s memories?  I am just playing devil&rsquo;s advocate, though - I am just happy someone finally thinks Taim is not Demandred.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Demandred aka Taim
body:
<p>I did not think that Taim was Demandred, but I have been rereading <i>Lord of Chaos</i> and my belief has changed.  Taim is looking more and more like Demandred. In Chapter 42 - "The Black Tower," Lews Therin is mumbling in Rand&rsquo;s head saying, "I should have killed him long ago... should have... should have."  He is referring to Taim, but I believe when he says "long ago" that he is referring to 3000 years ago.  Later in the chapter Lews starts mumbling again, "I will kill him... I will kill him, and then them.  They must serve him.  It is plain; they must serve him."  Here Lews is referring to the Asha&rsquo;man.  A few paragraphs later, "Oh, Light I killed them all.  All that I loved.  If I kill him, it will be well, though.  I can make it up, if I kill him finally.  No, nothing can make up, but I must kill him anyway.  Kill them all.  I must.  I must."  The "finally" refers to before, as in 3000 years ago.  The "all" refers to the other Forsaken.  This in conjunction with Taim just happening to be there at the right time to help Rand with the Gray Man or that Taim just happened to know that Rand was being held captive to Aes Sedai at Dumai&rsquo;s Wells.  Therefore Taim = Demandred.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I take a different spin on Lews Therin&rsquo;s ramblings, at least some of them.  Maybe in the above quote Lews Therin realizes the Asha&rsquo;man are loyal to Taim instead of Rand, and he should never have allowed Taim to come to a position of such power.  Please let this be settled for good in Book 9.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: More Evidence...
body:
<p><i>A Crown of Swords</i>, paperback p. 452:<blockquote>"I didn&rsquo;t arrange his kidnapping." Sammael gave her what he probably thought was a wry look; his scar made it more a snarl. "Mesaana had a hand in it, though. Maybe Demandred and Semirhage as well, despite how it ended, but Mesaana certainly."</blockquote>Despite how it ended? Didn&rsquo;t it end with Mazrim coming with the Asha&rsquo;man and rescuing Rand? I think this shows that Demandred is Taim... That would explain Sammael&rsquo;s use of "despite how it ended."  I&rsquo;m not sure how Semirhage fits into that though.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This quote always gets me...  It would seem like Demandred, if he was following orders, would have liked things the way they turned out.  After all, "Let the <i>Lord of Chaos</i> rule..."  I really do not know how to take this quote.  I will just pretend it never happened...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Does It Really Matter?
body:
<p>The question of whether or not Taim is Demandred in disguise or just another pompous jerk who can channel has been argued about almost endlessly, but I&rsquo;d like to question its importance from the pint of view. of the the development of the story. If Taim is Demandred., then Rand has an extremely dangerous man who hates him in control of his "praetorian guards." If Taim is not Demandred - then Rand still has an extremely dangerous man who hates him in control of his "praetorian guards." It is a lot of fun, from the point of view of we fans, to debate about subtle points like the issue of Taim&rsquo;s real identity, but in the end, when all is said and done, I don&rsquo;t think it really matters who Taim is when you compare that issue to what Taim is vis-a-vis Rand. Whether he&rsquo;s Demandred or not is ancillary to whether or not his is a threat, and whether or not Rand should waste him - the answer to this last question being, "Yes, of course." It is not Rand&rsquo;s ignorance of any secret identity that really matters here, but his more shocking blindness to a mortal danger he sees on an almost day to day basis. I think that&rsquo;s the real point about Taim - not his secrets, but Rand&rsquo;s grave error in judgment in relying on this sort of person.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Quit telling us not to have fun!  Just kidding...  I think Taim&rsquo;s true identity might very well play a role in the series.  After all, an independent (real) Taim would be playing by a completely different set of rules than Demandred would be.  I love debating the identity of Taim, and I refuse to stop until it is proven one was or the other (please let that be in book 9).<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Nope, Taim is Not Demandred
body:
<p>Ok, this may sound strange, but Taim is Aginor.</p><p>Remember that of all the Forsaken, Ishamael was the strongest in the power, followed by Aginor. When Taim is told to hold as much of the Power as possible, he held "nearly as much as Rand himself could."</p><p>Also, remember that Balthamel and Aginor are given the bodies of Borderlanders when they are reincarnated. We know that Balthamel, or Aran&rsquo;gar, is sent to the Tower in exile. So one part of the pair goes to the White Tower, so it would make sense to think the other half went to the Black Tower.</p><p>Also, remember that Sammael believed that Demandred was manipulating the Seanchan. His talk of events in the south were right around the time of the Seanchan attacks. Would Demandred really have time to chill with the Asha&rsquo;man if he was running the Seanchan?</p><p>Now, why Osan&rsquo;gar was sent to help al&rsquo;Thor and his amnesty, I don&rsquo;t know. I believe it is because this grouping of men destined to go insane all but plunges the world into suspicion and fear of al&rsquo;Thor, making it more difficult to unite the nations behind him.</p><p>Chew on that and write me with any comments.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The bodies from the Borderlands idea had me thinking along these lines for a while.  Then I decided it was more likely Osan&rsquo;gar is Dashiva.  But that would fit your reasoning that Aran&rsquo;gar wen to the Tower in exile, so Osan&rsquo;gar went to the Black Tower.  I think it is more likely Osan&rsquo;gar is Dashiva, but that could just be me...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Can NOT Be a Darkfriend
body:
<p>I don&rsquo;t think it&rsquo;s possible for Taim to be a Darkfriend, Forsaken, Shadowspawn, or even Bela (don't ask me, I just saw it someplace), because he gave Rand one of the Seals, whole.</p><p>No Darkfriend would ever carry one of those and leave it in one piece, no matter what it might mean in the overall plot. And as of yet, there has not been a single clue, hint, or anything else saying that the seal is fake or something. Another thing is, the Dark One would probably know if anyone serving the Shadow had it, and would immediately command them to break it.</p><p>Also, I don&rsquo;t think either Taim OR Logain will turn to the Shadow, I don&rsquo;t know why, just call it premonition.</p><p>Also, I just don&rsquo;t LIKE the whole Taim/Demandred thing.  In my opinion, Taim has plenty of reasons to act the way he does to Rand.  Rand wasn't exactly polite to him when they first met and just keeps on dumping him with more and more responsibility.</p><p>That&rsquo;s what I think.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Just because Taim gave Rand one of the seals does not mean he is not a Darkfriend.  That certainly gained him at least some of Rand&rsquo;s trust.  It probably helped Taim earn the position as the M&rsquo;Hael, in charge of every male channeler in the world.  If I were the Dark One, I would consider having one of my servants in charge of that many powerful channelers an even trade for giving up a seal.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Not Demandred
body:
<p>For the longest time I was sure that Taim was Demandred for the reasons that (1) Lews Therin always starts muttering about Demandred when Taim is around, (2) his description and ability with the power are indicative of it, and (3) Taim&rsquo;s habit to let Rand have his way of things, though reluctantly, seems to fit the Dark One&rsquo;s mandate to "Let the <i>Lord of Chaos</i> rule."</p><p>I now think that these are all red herrings. Oddly enough, I have only one simple reason for that. Taim rampaged for a great deal of time claiming to be a false Dragon. Now, not only is this risky, it is not a very likely way for him to get close to Rand, or have anything to do with Rand, which seems to be what a Forsaken would want, especially a devious one like Demandred. And he could not have known in any way that Rand would declare the amnesty, so he wouldn't have thought that claiming to be the Dragon Reborn would be beneficial. Basically, I think that, although the evidence points to Taim as Demandred, Jordan is just playing a huge joke on us and wants desperately to throw us off track. Who Demandred is then is quite unknown to me, possible one of the Asha&rsquo;man, maybe someone completely different, but I don&rsquo;t believe he is Taim.</p><p></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I love when people switch to my side on this issue!  I agree that Taim is not Demandred.  Something about it just does not seem quite right to me.  (Note to Mr. Jordan if you are reading this: Feel free to e-mail me and tell me the truth.  I will not tell anyone, I swear...)<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim is Taim, Aginor=Dashiva?
body:
<p>Somehow I doubt someone with an ego like Demandred would tolerate being put under Lews Therin (Rand) again - not after 3000 years in opposition. He hates Lews Therin, would do anything to kill him; somehow I doubt even the Dark One&rsquo;s command would be enough if he was that close to the man who caused him to turn to the Shadow that often. It's too easy, and all the "evidence" far too circumstantial. People do actually hear of things they wouldn&rsquo;t normally know (Traveling, "so called Aiel," the Old Tongue) and draw their own conclusions. And just because most men succumb to the taint early, doesn't mean that all do; people are individuals, and not everyone fits the trend.</p><p>Another point is that Demandred was a general for the Shadow; why would he relegate himself so far from leading armies to a disparate group of social rejects who will serve the Light in the Last Battle? What sense does this make? Demandred would be in a nation with a powerful army, where he can have a lot of influence, just like Sammael (who incidentally isn't dead) had Illian. My belief is that he is the architect of the Corenne - the Seanchan return seems remarkable coincidental with the release of the Forsaken a few years before.</p><p>Rand's ravings are just that; Lews Therin is mad and just lashes out at men who can channel - Taim is not unique in this, but perhaps more than any others he is most like those Lews Therin hates - those who turned to the Shadow who were his friends (Ishamael, Sammael and Demandred).</p><p>I believe Taim is just Taim; an arrogant, hard man who believes he could do better than Rand, but knows he doesn't have the same support. Because he can't BE the Dragon, at least after Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don he'll have the run of the show when Rand is dead (if he does die). Why would Robert Jordan make it so simple? Ask yourself that.</p><p>As for Aginor/Osan'gar - possibly Dashiva, note the occasional jolts back into lucidity in Ebou Dar. Also, Aginor was believed to be mad (who&rsquo;d create Trollocs if they were same?), so maybe the craziness is not wholly feigned.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, I like this theory!  Taim is Taim...  Sammael is alive...  I definitely agree.  Until Taim comes back and says, "Hi, I&rsquo;m Demandred" I am not going to believe he is Demandred.  Taim is just a little miffed that he is not what Rand is.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Demandred... Maybe
body:
<p>It is highly unlikely that Taim is Demandred.  For one thing, Demandred is very sensitive when it comes to being second to Lews.  No - sensitive is way too weak a word to describe how Demandred feels about being "just" below Lews.  So it makes absolutely no sense for Demandred to be second to Rand.  He'd probably go berserk and start killing off everyone in sight if he was again under the Dragon.</p><p>Then again, he could have taken Taim's identity and went to Rand.  When the Dark One orders you to do something, it's not too smart to do otherwise.  He also is very upset when he is put just below Rand.  Like when Rand was giving away the insignia for the Asha'man, and he called Taim, second to him.  If you need more reasons, see the other theories.</p><p>One other thing that I noticed is that in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> when Taim first meets Rand, he wasn't infuriated when he was put below Rand.  He reasoned out, albeit reluctantly, that Rand is the most likely candidate for the role of Dragon Reborn.  But somewhere in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> he became more knowledgeable in the ways of the One Power, and his attitude changed from being an arrogant jerk to an arrogant jerk who really despises Rand.</p><p>I'd like to think that Taim is just Taim.  He probably will try to take over the Asha'man and betray Rand.  He is what Demandred was to Lews Therin Telamon.  And like Demandred, he will always be second to Rand.  History tends to repeat itself.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> History especially tends to repeat itself in Randland...  I could never deny there are things which lead to the notion that Taim is really Demandred in disguise.  And you are very correct - if the Dark One tells you to do something, you do it.  Or bad things happen to you...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim=Demandred?
body:
<p>The one question I would pose on this issue was briefly raised before and refers to the test for <i>saidin</i>. Given the scarcity of male wielders of the Power it's unreasonable to suggest that such a test could be discovered by random experimentation. You would need to have either a) a solid theory of how the power works (which even in the Age of Legends wasn't completely understood, hence the Forsaken's surprise at Warders) or b) another <i>saidin</i> channeler and a lot of experimentation. So, the question is who taught Taim the test? Either he's a Darkfriend or he really is Demandred, but he is not just Taim.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Darn that stupid test...  It is one of the biggest holes in my idea that Taim really is not Demandred.  I have no idea how Taim could have (reasonably) learned about the test...  Any ideas out there?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Is NOT Demandred
body:
<p>I don't think that Taim is Demandred for many reasons. I'll just stick with the test though for now. Everyone says Taim is the dread Forsaken Demandred because he knows how to test for the ability in other men. People act like this would be a hard thing to figure out but when you think about it, it isn't. All you have to do is have a man who can channel (or learn) focus on your channeling. This is not as unlikely as you might think. Taim was able to channel for fifteen years - in that time he led a huge army when he claimed to be the Dragon. His men thought he was a god. When he channeled they paid close attention. Here's the scenario: After a long day of marching/fighting Taim and some of his men are sitting around a fire (channeled by Taim) and planning. Many of his men are watching, staring at the fire their valiant leader made with no flint tinder, or even wood. In an army there has to be at least one guy who can channel. Eventually Taim starts to feel the resonance and figures it out. Remember folks, almost all of the great discoveries humans make are accidents that happen to observant people. After fifteen years of occasionally feeling resonances of his channeling Taim JUST FIGURED IT OUT.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I cannot believe I am going to disagree with someone who is arguing that Taim is not Demandred, but here goes...  To test that a man can channel, Taim channels for ten or fifteen minutes to create a small flame.  In your scenario, Taim would just start a fire and then let it burn on its own, so he would only really be channeling for a few seconds.  This would not be enough time to see if any of his men were giving off a resonance...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Is Not Demandred... Weiramon Is
body:
<p>Well, I just got done reading <i>The Path of Daggers</i> and noticed something that was pointed out many times in one chapter. During the time Rand is attacking the Seanchan, there were several occasions where Rand and Weiramon caught up with each other. In a couple of these, there were storms going on, and it was generally muddy during the entire campaign. Every time that Rand saw Weiramon, the High Lord was spotless. There was not a speck of mud on him!!!  How could this be, unless he was using an inverted weave of illusion and had cloaked his ability to channel (Asmodean did while in the Waste). Keeping an illusion larger than yourself (Weiramon is a heavyset man) would have fewer problems than some other disguises. Lanfear did it (also in the Waste). Taim knowing the trick of testing could be explained away by him being a Dreadlord and being taught in a dream or instructed by a Forsaken (Demandred? The whole looking for praise from the Dark One?). But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have often thought about Weiramon as a possible identity of Demandred.   This time through the series I am keeping my eyes open for evidence to firm things up one way or the other.  You make a good point - Demandred is usually described as being somewhat vain, and Weiramon is always clean...  Good work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Mazrim Taim CAN&rsquo;T Be One of the Forsaken
body:
<p>I have been reading a lot of comments about the whole "Is Mazrim Taim really Demandred" thing, and have had several thoughts. Although it is interesting that Sammael said that Demandred and Semirhage might have had a hand in Rand's capture "despite how it ended," it doesn't really say anything one way or another (oh, granted, it makes us think a LOT).</p><p>The part about Taim knowing the trick of "testing" potential <i>saidin</i> users is not indicative of him being one of the Forsaken. Although this would certainly explain it, I think Taim's knowledge of the test could have been reasoned out (after all, Egwene reasoned out Traveling, something which hadn't been done for 3000 years...), especially since he had been channeling the One Power for over fifteen years. I like the explanation offered by Furyk Karede, where Taim learns the test while sitting at a fire with his men. This version is quite plausible, especially since Taim's army probably camped in at least one location where either wood wasn't to be found or Taim didn't want the smoke to be discovered and simply kept the fire going by a constant (or perhaps tied) weave of Fire. With these "dry" fires, Taim would be able to the sense resonance from a man, since he would no doubt stare right at the flames.</p><p>However, the most convincing argument that Taim is not one of the Forsaken is the fact that he was able to channel for about fifteen years. Recall that Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene were very young at the time Taim discovered he could channel (how he learned is something else again, but that's a topic for later discussion...). Also keep in mind that Balthamel and Aginor were the first two Forsaken to get free of the Bore (besides Ishamael, who we are told was never really bound), and their escape took place while Rand and company were in the Eye of the World. So the only explanations for Taim are 1) one of the Forsaken has the ability to appear backwards in time (which doesn't seem very likely); 2) that Taim is actually Ishamael (which also isn't likely since Ishamael was killed while Taim was being held by Aes Sedai hundreds of miles away); and 3) Mazrim Taim is just a mere mortal that feels snubbed by the fact that he is "so close, but so far away" from being number one. Number one is a great feeling, and the only thing worse than being last is being number two.</p><p>Taim may indeed be an evil man, a man destined to attempt to kill Rand or anotherperson that is part of the fight against the Shadow, but the chances of him being anything more than a vengeful sore loser (even though he has lost nothing...) are not good, unless he has managed to plant ideas in the minds of everyone in his village that he was born before (or, indeed, after) he was.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I still do not think that Taim could have reasoned out the test with his men around a fire in camp.  Something about that just does not make sense to me...  As for the rest - I can not believe I am going to argue against someone who believes the same thing I do...  Most people who argue Taim is Demandred do not believe that Taim has always been Demandred.  These folks say that Demandred took over Taim&rsquo;s identity - recall that Bashere did not recognize him immediately when they met in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>.  This is certainly a possibility.  It hurts me just to admit that...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: How Did Taim Know Where Rand Was Being Held?
body:
<p>After reading your comments and a few others, I had some additional thoughts on the Taim/Demandred thing. The part that really jumped out at me is that Taim knew exactly where Rand was being held (the Asha'man were able to Travel there), despite the fact that no one followed the party of Aes Sedai who were shielding him and no one could have known without talking to them. Also recall Sammael's comment that Mesaana had a hand in it, and perhaps Semirhage or Demandred, "despite how it ended."  The only logical explanation is that one of the Asha'man (not necessarily Taim) was in contact with Mesaana and knew exactly how to find Rand. After all, the only way for a message to travel faster than the party was traveling would be pigeon, Traveler, raven, or Draghkar (with the last three being possible servants of the Forsaken...).</p><p>Anyway, this information just lends suspicion to the fact that someone had to be helping Taim for him to know exactly where Rand was. He most likely wouldn't have been able to puzzle it out that accurately by himself.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not have much to say about this one - I am reading <i>Lord of Chaos</i> right now to refresh my memory a bit...  And that quote about "despite how it ended" always drives me insane.  It can be taken a couple different ways, but I would imagine that is why Jordan put it that way...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Demandred Is...
body:
<p>I think Damandred is Toram:<ul><li>Toram wanted to kill Rand, he openly hated him. For a young man he's known for ten minutes, that's just a bit too much.</li><li>In several instances, thoughts like 'Very handsome, with just the right air of...' flit through Min's mind. That sounds a lot like Compulsion, only something interrupts before the thought/weave has time to end.</li><li>He was hanging out with Fain, and listening to him. I'm not certain what that signifies, knowing how Fain feels about anything or anyone.</li><li>The White Lions - word must have gotten about that 'Gaebril' was Rahvin, and if not, why would the White Lions work for anyone, unless he happened to be a Forsaken, that is.</li></ul>It does explain a lot, I think, and it fits quite well.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have absolutely no opinion on this one.  This never even crossed my mind, so I guess I really do not have much to say.  So I will be quiet now...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Knows Too Much
body:
<p>The best argument for Taim being Demandred is his knowledge in the Power, and (his claim) to  having channeled the Power for over ten years. He would not only gone insane but he would have started to rot. And he seems to be in good health.</p><p>Another good point is that the world first hears of him some time after Rand and his friends had been to the Eye of the world, where they encountered two Forsaken. In other words, "<i>The Great Hunt</i>", and in that book we meet Lanfear. It is then safe to assume that most of the Forsaken are free at this point, including Demandred.</p><p>So in my point of view, when he got out he proclaimed himself as the Dragon and raised an army, being the soldier and general he is.</p><p>This would explain why no one has heard of him before, a man with that much power would not go unnoticed for long. Besides the testing bit is a bit difficult to discover, not to mention by oneself.</p><p>My last argument is that Taim and Demandred are almost identical in character and I find it hard to believe that Jordan would put two identical characters in the same story, or in any story for that matter.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Shoot, yet another person arguing that Taim is Demandred...  Well, I still deny all these crazy accusations...  I have one or two arguments with this theory.  First of all, if you were a Forsaken and just released from the Bore, would it not be a better idea to lay low for a little while (as opposed to bringing a bunch of very angry Aes Sedai down on your head).  Second, why would Demandred (if in fact he is Demandred) claim to have channeled for over ten years?  That would (at least in my opinion) put him under strong suspicion for having some other way to fend off the taint.  I like Morgase's idea, back when Rand was in front of her in <i>The Eye of the World</i> - something like a story like that is too improbable to be a lie.  I really hope Taim and Demandred turn out to be two different people - otherwise I am going to have to rewrite about half the site to fix all my mistakes...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Not To Disagree/Agree About Taim=Forsaken, But...
body:
<p>I find it odd (and unusual) that Mazrim Taim, from Saldaea in the Borderlands can barely keep from stabbing himself with a sword. Aren't Borderlander men supposed to learn how to fight from an early age? There have never been any Borderlander males who didn't have a sword before Mazrim Taim. I'm not sure what it all means, but it will probably fuel the debate (hee hee).</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not necessarily think this means a whole lot to the whole Taimandred debate.  Not every Aiel is a warrior - of course, I can hardly picture any Aiel accidentally stabbing their own foot...  In any event, Taim just might not have shown any skill/interest in the sword while he was growing up in Saldaea.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: <i>Saidin</i>
body:
<p>Something just occurred to me, and I thought wotmania would like it, since he shares my belief that Taim is not Demandred. A lot of people have cited the line where Taim is surprised that Rand doesn&rsquo;t know the Test for <i>saidin</i>. Follow me on this - if Taim was Demandred, why would he (as Demandred) be surprised that Rand doesnt know the test? I assume that Demandred, like the rest of the Forsaken, considers channelers of either gender of the current Age uncivilized and ignorant louts, completely unaware of how to use the fine points of the Power. Why would he assume such a country bumpkin from the backside of beyond would fall bass ackwards into how to do the test? After all, he only just learned he had the Power at all...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is a theory I like!!!  That had never really occurred to me at all, and I am not sure why...  Every time we hear any of the Forsaken talk about the current Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man they are mocking the skills of these individuals.  Demandred would hardly be surprised Rand does not know the test, but Taim might be.  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Taim Not Being Able to Use a Sword
body:
<p>Bourque posted a theory stating that he thought that it was odd that Taim, as a Borderlander, would not be a decent swordsman. This can be easily shot down as there are many Borderlanders who are not fighters and would not be able to use a sword. However, Demandred was an extremely good general from the Age of Legends. It is highly likely that he would have been an accomplished swordsman. Most of the male Forsaken seem to be, at least Sammael and Be'lal certainly were. Asmodean wasn't but he wasn't a general.  I don't know if Balthamel, Aginor, or Rahvin were but they weren't generals that I can remember. At least they weren&rsquo;t good ones if they were. Demandred, however, as previously stated, was a great general, second only to Lews Therin Telamon, and it is highly likely that he was a good swordsman. Taim is NOT a good swordsman. Now he could still be Demandred if he were faking his inability with swords, but it probably wouldn't be all that easy to act so poor at something that he was so good at. I believe that Taim is NOT Demandred and that this thoroughly implies that he is not.</p><p>Oh, and as a side note...  Great work Ashram! That is a very good theory that points to Taim just being Taim. Anti-Taimendred promoters everywhere thank you.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Amen...  I thoroughly enjoy any post which helps to disprove the entire Taimandred theory!  And you are certainly correct about one thing - it is difficult to pretend to be unskilled as something you were once very good at.  It would seem to me most soldiers in Randland would rise through the ranks by showing their skills; those who were not at least passable with a sword probably would have trouble surviving a war to rise and become a general.  That is about all I have to say on this one - I am just happy I have another person attacking Taimandred.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Weiramon Maybe NOT Demandred?
body:
<p>I don't think Weiramon could be Demandred. I seriously doubt that Be&rsquo;lal would allow another Forsaken, particularly one of such import as Demandred, to be anywhere near his base of operations in Tear.  And in the same light, I really don't think Demandred would allow himself to be subject to Be'lal, who, if I remember right, was gunning to be number one in Tear.  I could be wrong, but rarely do we see one Forsaken subjecting himself to another. It could be possible that they were working together, however, because we don't really know a whole lot about Be'lal's relationships with the rest of the Forsaken.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is an interesting point...  I really cannot recall whether or not we had ever met Weiramon before Be&rsquo;lal was killed.  Is it possible Demandred could have assumed a Weiramon persona and climbed to power after Be&rsquo;lal was killed?  Something about that does not sound right, though...  In any event, nice theory!  What else could I expect from a fellow Spartan?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Egwene Is One of the Forsaken
body:
<p>Actually, she's not, but if you select all the right evidence then she looks like she's one of the Forsaken.  After all, when she's in the White Tower and Salidar and everywhere else where she is training she picks things up really fast, and rediscovers lost Talents, and knows "sensitive" information, etc.  Wait, Rand and Nynaeve and Elayne did that too!  They're all Forsaken!</p><p>Now if I actually believed any of that you'd all call me stupid and have a right to it. So why the heck does everyone use points like that to say Taim is Demandred?  So what if he learns fast?  So what if he knows bits of the Old Tongue?</p><p>Okay, here's what it looks like to me. The "good guys" (how good is Rand really?) can get training on the side from captured Forsaken, so why couldn't Taim?  No, I'm not saying that Taim is hiding Demandred in his back pocket or in a chest in his room, but I am saying that he could be getting outside help. If Taim were a Darkfriend wouldn't it make sense for the Dark One to have SOMEONE (like a Forsaken maybe?) help him out and build up a power-base in charge of the Black Tower that had some skills he otherwise wouldn't have?  And even if Taim WEREN'T a Darkfriend, wouldn't it also make sense for someone (like a manipulative Demandred maybe?) to train him as a sort of assassin?  Taim is close to Rand, Demandred and Taim have a mutual hate for Rand, and if Demandred trained Taim, then Taim would be indebted to him (and what better way to pay him than delivering him Rand for Demandred to kill at his leisure?).</p><p>About the Lews Therin mutterings, if Taim can remind us of Demandred, why can't Taim remind a (very) insane Lews Therin of Demandred? It stands to reason that if you're THAT nuts, then you'd mix people up simply because they reminded you of other people. Heck, look at how he thinks that Elayne is Ilyena.</p><p>So just a warning to watch the use of circumstantial evidence, you could end up with all our heroes as Forsaken!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I read the subject of this e-mail and thought, "What a nut!"  Then I read the actual theory and liked it a lot.  It certainly is true that many of the qualities we all find suspicious in Taim (heck, even I suspect him of being Demandred at least sometimes...) are all accepted without question in Rand, Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, and all the other folk fighting against the Shadow.  Only time will tell whether or not our suspicion of Taim was justified all along.  I certainly hope that is one theory which will be decided once and for all in Winter's Heart, or else I think a number of loyal WoT readers might very well go insane...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Is He Demandred?
body:
<p>Ok here goes nothing... (*clearing throat*)</p><p>I, for one, do not believe Mazrim Taim is one of the Forsaken.  My theory is one that I haven't seen posted anywhere to date, and some friends of mine convinced me to post this theory on the vaunted wotmania.com Theory Post.</p><p>If I remember correctly, Robert Jordan (may he live forever!) was intent on getting across the notion, throughout books two through five, that anyone who can channel the One Power could be turned to the Shadow by a circle of thirteen Aes Sedai and thirteen Myrddraal.  Which, again, if I'm not mistaken, would be right in the period of time that Mazrim Taim was captured, then escaped or busted out.</p><p>All three of us (me, myself, and I) believe that Taim began this life as just a regular person that had the spark for channeling <i>saidin</i> born in him.  After so many years of him channeling and holding off the taint (which, by the way, I believe can be done with a high enough constitution, to borrow something from AD&D;) he decides to proclaim himself the Dragon Reborn.  Like he says, the histories would rewrite themselves - all he had to do was fulfill just one of the prophecies of <i>The Karaethon Cycle</i>.  But, once he proclaimed himself, Rand al'Thor was on his own path to fulfilling the prophecies, the Pattern had no more room for false Dragons and he was captured.  Then he either escaped or was busted out of imprisonment by Darkfriends (I believe the latter), and then taken to the circle of thirteen Aes Sedai and thirteen Myrddraal and turned to serve the Shadow.  That could be why Lews Therin rants and raves about killing him almost every time he comes into contact with Taim, due to the fact that Lews Therin can somehow sense that he's been turned.</p><p>Furthermore, I believe that Robert Jordan (please don't take any offense if you happen to read this, sir) is just throwing all of this stuff about Taim possibly being Demandred in, and he's just sitting back laughing at all the gullible people out there in the world.  I've read somewhere that Jordan has publicly stated that only about one third of the theories floating around on the Internet are correct, and if Taim is <b>not</b> Demandred then that takes care of about 20% of all theories or something close to that.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  I will be mightily upset if Taim does turn out to be Demandred after all the dropped hints and clues to make everyone believe he is said member of the Forsaken.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I have never really put much thought into Taim having been turned to the Shadow by a circle of Aes Sedai and Myrddraal. I believe it is possible, though I would probably have to look for clues my next time through the series to look for any solid evidence. Once again I would like to state for the record that I think Taim is just a Darkfriend (willing, converted, or otherwise) and not Demandred.  And every time I say that makes one more correction I will have to make should <i>Winter's Heart</i> prove that Taim really is Demandred...  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Daughter of the Nine Moons
body:
<p>Birgitte is the Daughter of the Nine Moons.  I have several reasons to believe this.<ul><li>It struck me as odd that Mat has never asked Birgitte about the Daughter of the Nine Moons.  She would seem to be the one person who would know who she is.</li><li>Mat is Gaidal Cain.  I really don&rsquo;t have any proof of this, but in all of Mat&rsquo;s memories, he is a great warrior or general.  Somehow, when Mat was hung in Rhuidean, he died, and when Rand brought him back, Cain was woven out of <i>Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod</i>.</li><li>The man in the inn.  I don&rsquo;t remember the book, but sometime, when Mat was asking about the Daughter of the Nine Moons, a man recognized the name, and asked if she had returned.  As this man wasn&rsquo;t Seanchan, I don&rsquo;t think that this refers to the Empress.</li></ul>This implies that my theory is correct. I have much more evidence supporting this, but these three seem the most important.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I hate to disagree, but...  Mat is almost certainly not Gaidal Cain.  Gaidal appears in <i>Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod</i> long after Mat went to Finnland through the ter&rsquo;angreal in Rhuidean.  Birgitte does not note Cain&rsquo;s absence until <i>The Fires of Heaven</i> .  It makes the most sense that the Daughter of the Nine Moons has something to do with the Court of the Nine Moons - the Seanchan court.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Who Is the Daughter of the Nine Moons?
body:
<p>I think that it may be possible that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is Moiraine. This is just a thought I have yet to go digging for clues on this one yet.  I&rsquo;m thinking that she&rsquo;s someone that we&rsquo;d least expect, and who could we least expect more than someone that is dead.  Also when Moiraine said she know the face of the man she&rsquo;d marry I kinda got the air of disgust from her which if she was destined to marry Mat I could definitely see disgust.</p><p>The thing I think will prove this theory has been eluding me.  What is on the banner of the house of Damodred.  If it&rsquo;s nine moons there we go, I think I have yet to read what it is though.</p><p>If anyone can disprove this please do, if anyone can support it please do.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Mat and Moiraine, that would certainly be an interesting marriage.  I doubt this will happen, though.  I still maintain that the Daughter of the Nine Moons will be from the Seanchan court.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Egeanin... Of the Nine Moons
body:
<p>Well, we know that this mysterious Daughter of the Nine Moons has got to be Seanchan.  Now, so far the only Seanchan character not shown in an evil , dominating manner was Egeanin.  Even Nynaeve was unsuccessful in trying to completely hate her. Bottom line...  Where is she?  That is where my little theory comes in.  It will be Egeanin who finds or first comes across Mat, thus finally meeting his Daughter of the Nine Moons.  After all, this character just cannot be sprung on us as a never before seen Seanchan woman.  Egeanin was introduced then just sort of faded away, never to be mentioned again.  In fact her lack of mentioning drew more attention to her, for me at least.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know about this.  It makes sense that the Daughter of the Nine Moons would be the Seanchan Empress, and most of the evidence points in this direction. And Egeanin is certainly not the Empress of the Seanchan.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Daughter of the Nine Moons is Moiraine
body:
<p>One more thing to add about that theory.  When someone is married from a large House they are usually married to someone else from another large house, meaning Moiraine&rsquo;s parents.  I remember hearing one of the names of the Houses, but did they ever mention the second house?  And also the Seanchan were planning to take over the land that their ancestors once ruled, thus why wouldn&rsquo;t they plan in advance?  Yes they are powerful, but they are also smart.  Wouldn&rsquo;t it be a better strategy to send some people from higher courts in the Seanchan to secure high positions of authority before sending in the troops?</p><p>This would also add a twist in another way.  If Moiraine and Lanfear were "merged" if you will, this could cause some issues involving Lanfear&rsquo;s side loving Rand, and Moiraine&rsquo;s side feeling responsibility towards Mat.  This would also put Mat in a very strange position.  Besides having to deal with an Aes Sedai&rsquo;s tricky words, he would also have to worry about whether of not it&rsquo;s Lanfear or Moiraine speaking.  That&rsquo;s assuming that they were "merged" and can find a way to escape.</p><p>Just a thought.  There is also evidence that other people have pointed out that it could be someone else, or someone new.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> If this is the way it turns out, Mat&rsquo;s luck would have really, really abandoned him...  Can you imagine having your wife be a semi-psychotic mix of Moiraine and Lanfear?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: The Empress&rsquo;s Daughter
body:
<p>All right, from the theories I&rsquo;ve read here so far this is going to sound pretty tame, but, if I remember correctly in <i>The Great Hunt</i> , the High Lord Turak while talking to Padan Fain about the Horn of Valere, mentions a woman, Tuon, who is the daughter and favored heir of the Empress of the Seanchan. Now bear with me. If the Empress is the ruler of the Court of the Nine Moons, would it not stand that this Tuon can be called the Daughter of the Nine Moons?</p><p>Here&rsquo;s a possible scenario for Mat: Upon being captured by Seanchan invaders at Ebou Dar, he somehow meets this Tuon who was sent to help foster the Return since the first one was bungled completely by Turak, Suroth et al... Poor Mat gets the Old ball and chains clamped right around the ankles.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Tuon would be a good candidate.  Either she ends up here, or Mat ends up in Seanchan.  I can almost hear Olver now - "Mat and Tuon sittin&rsquo; in a tree..."<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: DotNM Has To Be Egeanin
body:
<p>I&rsquo;ve been saying this for ages, and Brett Parker, you&rsquo;re the only person I&rsquo;ve found who agrees with me! Yay! Okay. I say that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is Egeanin for several reasons. We know she&rsquo;s got to be a Seanchan, and Egeanin is the only Seanchan we&rsquo;ve ever met and liked. Mat is a terrific character, and Jordan would not marry him off to some evil witch (although some people would argue that&rsquo;s what he did to Perrin), so his wife is going to be someone we like and someone sympathetic to Rand and the whole Dragon thing. He&rsquo;s not going to marry Tuon, Suroth, or the Empress, at least not voluntarily, because they&rsquo;re the people Rand is fighting against, and Mat is incredibly dedicated to Rand. That brings up the possibility of Mat being forced to marry against his will, which I don&rsquo;t even want to consider for him. I prefer to build a case for Egeanin, because we already know and like her- she helped out Elayne and Nynaeve and they were all friends, and then afterwards we never see her again.</p><p>I also want to refute those of you who say that Egeanin&rsquo;s going to hook up with Bayle Domon. She just thought he was good-looking, that doesn&rsquo;t mean they're going to get together. At the beginning of the series Egwene and Rand were promised to each other, and look where that is now - a passing attraction to Domon is not a legitimate argument against Egeanin as the Daughter of the Nine Moons.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Most people would say the Daughter of the Nine Moons is the Seanchan Empress, or her daughter.  I am leaning more and more towards it being the Empress&rsquo; daughter.  But when we got parts of the story from Egeanin&rsquo;s point of view, there was never any indication of her being the Empress&rsquo; daughter.  Who knows, maybe she just does not realize it yet.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Seanchan Empress
body:
<p>Well, it&rsquo;s almost obvious that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is either the Seanchan Empress or very closely related to her. Now, I have an interesting theory as to how this will all play out.</p><p>Back in either book 2 or 3, Egwene had a dream where she saw Rand held captive by people who fit the description of the Seanchan. And she saw next to that a large scale. On one side of the scale she saw the world, and at the other she saw Mat remove his eye and place it on the scale to balance things out, and then Rand was free. Then in book 4 when Mat goes to Finnland they tell him that he must "give up half the light of the world to save the world." (i.e. give up one eye)</p><p>So, I believe that Rand will somehow be taken prisoner by the Seanchan, and Mat will follow him to rescue him. He will then trade his eye for Rand, and perhaps because of this noble sacrifice the Daughter of the Nine Moons will be attracted to him and they&rsquo;ll marry.</p><p>This once again shows Jordan&rsquo;s love for Norse mythology. This is another case where he blatantly references it. For those of you not caught up in Norse mythology, let&rsquo;s take a look at what happened there. The god of thunder, Thor, was killed when Loki hid the hammer Mjolnir from Thor and he could not defend himself. So, he was taken to the land of the dead, which just happens to be "across the sea" from Asgard, and the goddess of the land of the dead, Hec, also called the daughter of the moon, held him there. So Odin came and bartered for the life of Thor, trading one of his eyes for Thor. Interesting how that all ties in, isn&rsquo;t it?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> With a theory like that, I will let you call yourself "The Boy of Wonder."  But come on, who is not up on their Norse mythology...  Seriously, this is a very good parallel, and one I never would have thought of (since I have not read much Norse mythology lately).  It is a great idea, and with Jordan&rsquo;s love of alluding to mythology, it is a definite possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: What About Someone Mat Would Like?
body:
<p>Whoa. Can you imagine Robert Jordan cracking up reading all these? All theories so far have some credibility, but we&rsquo;ve got to think about Mat&rsquo;s character. He would give up both eyes before marrying Moiraine or just about any other Aes Sedai. He spends his every waking moment trying to avoid Aes Sedai. (He is such an awesomely funny character, isn&rsquo;t he?) Anyway, he&rsquo;s probably not going to be big on a Seanchan either, considering what we know of their formal, hierarchy-filled culture. Mat likes booze, and gambling - not kissing the floor for some long-fingernailed hussy, in a room full of sul&rsquo;dam and <i>damane</i>. The Daughter of the Nine Moons might just be Berelain! Okay, okay, there&rsquo;s a lot against it - but consider this. Robert Jordan carefully avoided a relationship between Mat and Berelain while still showing Mat to be attracted to her - remember in <i>The Shadow Rising</i> when Mat made a bow and Berelain was so ticked off after Rand fighting his own reflection and Faile fighting Berelain over Perrin that Berelain stalked off mumbling "...too much like me!" Yet in <i>Lord of Chaos</i>, she asks Rand not only if Perrin is well but if Mat is too. Mat is not at all keen to marry, but if he had to, well...  Remember when Mat made a mental note of what a nice bosom Berelain had. He would like her. But here is the clincher, the thing that gives the theory it&rsquo;s key credibility...</p><p>Ever heard Berelain&rsquo;s last name? That&rsquo;s right, it&rsquo;s "sur Paendrag."  The same surname as Artur Hawkwing. What if Berelain is descended from Artur Hawkwing? What if, technically because of her blood, she becomes the Daughter of the Nine Moons? (Because the Empress dies or Berelain is revealed to have purer blood or whatever.) I think you&rsquo;ll agree that if Mat had to marry, he&rsquo;d pick her, and it&rsquo;s something so subtle that it&rsquo;s more likely than this whole Emperess&rsquo; daughter thing that Robert Jordan basically pointed a neon sign at. What do you say?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Here is what I say...  I think this is very interesting idea, I cannot recall having read this anywhere else.  It certainly has some merit - Berelain could very well have a more direct connection to Artur Hawkwing, which would in theory put her in a pretty prominent position among the Seanchan.  And I definitely agree that Mat would like Berelain more than just about anyone else for a wife.  Good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Maybe it's...
body:
<p>The Daughter of the Nine Moons to me is more than likely Tylin.  Tylin is a very good candidate for many reasons.<ul><li>In <i>A Crown of Swords</i>, Tylin heavily pursues Mat.  Robert Jordan wouldn't do that for no reason.</li><li>At the end of <i>A Crown of Swords</i>, the Seanchan take over the city of Ebou Dar, where Tylin so coincidentally is the Queen.</li><li>Ebou Dari women are very protective of their property.  I doubt Tylin will take kindly to someone trying to take her land.</li></ul>She'll probably kill the current Empress of Seanchan, therefore being shown as a powerful person and given the posistion of the Seanchan Empress.  That would make her the Daughter of the Nine Moons, therefore becoming Mats' future wife.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know if Jordan plans on having Tylin eventually be Mat's wife...  I always looked at the relationship between Tylin and Mat as comedy relief - the hunter becoming the hunted.  Tylin might be intelligent and sneaky, but I do not think she could get past the Deathwatch Guard to kill the Empress...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: It's Gotta Be Tylin
body:
<p>I think that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is Tylin.</p><p>This is very possible. The last we heard of Mat was in Ebou Dar, which was just taken over by the Seanchan. Tylin rules in Ebou Dar.</p><p>I think somehow, exactly how I don't know, Tylin gains a large amount of respect in the Court of the Nine Moons.  It will then be possible for her to be adopted into the Empress' family.</p><p>I know the idea of being adopted into the family seems far fetched,  but there is written proof in the series that in can happen.  In "<i>The Shadow Rising</i>" (chapter 1, page 50), High Lady Suroth thinks to herself about achieving a high amount of respect and possibly being adopted into the family of the Empress.</p><p>With this evidence brought into light, it makes Tylin a good candidate for Mats' future wife.  Besides, why else would Robert Jordan put her in the books and spend so much time on her?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I certainly think Tylin and Mat would be a good match - after all, she is one of the few women who has been able to turn the tables and chase him.  This series of events is certainly possible, though I would think it is sort of unlikely.  And that would certainly be an interesting marriage, but...  I really think the Daughter of the Nine Moons is the Empress' daughter.  How Mat will meet her, though, is another theory in itself...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Tuon
body:
<p>The Daughter of the Nine moons is Tuon. This, in my mind, is gospel.  BUT (and it is a very big but), that raises the question: How do the two meet?  Well, and this is where it gets good, I'll tell you.</p><p>When last we saw Mat, he was buried under a wall in Ebou Dar, with a note from Tylin in his pocket and his ashanderei next to him. This did not kill him, but rendered him conveniently unconscious so that he could be pulled out by a pair of Deathwatch Guardsmen. They would then look at his spear, and see the ravens and the old-tongue writing. They would then search his pockets, possibly looking for any money they could pinch from him, and find the note. A quote from the note: "...who is this Daughter of the Nine Moons I made you think of?..." (ACoS, Chapter 37). This tells the Guards that the guy they just hauled out has some connection to the Daughter of the Nine Moons, at which point in time they put him on the first ship back to Seanchan, where he meets and falls in love with Tuon. Tuon's Mother then dies, Mat becomes Prince Consort to the Empress, and the Seanchan fall in line behind Rand, ready to face the forces of Darkness.  Maybe.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> What you are saying is quite possible...  And I like the quote about the note, I had not remembered that.  But somehow I doubt that they will ship Mat back to Seanchan (that would keep Mat out of the story for a long time, which I do not think anyone wants).  Maybe, instead, Tuon will be on her way to help out with the Return?  Who knows, but I hope the Daughter of the Nine Moons line of the plot gets a little attention in Book 9.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Berelain or Tuon?
body:
<p>The connection between the the "Court of the Nine Moons" being the court of the Seanchan Empress, and "The Daughter of the Nine Moons" is WAY too close. Besides, there was that Seanchan guy at the tavern who overheard Mat mentioning the phrase, "Daughter of the Nine Moons." He obviously recognized the title, and thought of it as a good omen about the upcoming invasion (to which he was obviously a scout). Here's my theory, though... the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" isn't any specific person, but a title that roughly means "heir apparent to the throne of Seanchan". The individual who possesses the title at the time of the Empress' death becomes the new Empress. This is supported by the fact that Tuon is not the oldest child of the Empress... Therefore the succession does not strictly go to the oldest, or possibly even the most direct heir. In fact, I believe it was Suroth who mentioned that she was below Turak in the rankings, which is why he outranked her. I think the implication is... and it is my theory... that whomever the Empress designates as "Daughter (or possibly son?) of the Nine Moons" is the heir apparent... And this person can be any among the many hundreds of possible heirs to the throne, although those who are more directly in line for it get preferential treatment and more consideration.</p><p>With this in mind, assuming that the Daughter of the Nine Moons whom Mat will eventually marry is someone Jordan has mentioned so far in the books, the only possibilities are Tuon, Suroth, or Berelain, because they are the only ones who have any possible claim to the Seanchan throne. Suroth is very unlikely... being a Darkfriend and way down in the rankings. That leaves Tuon and Berelain. Although I still think it will be Tuon, I'm not ruling Berelain out. Remember, however, Robert Jordan once said in an interview that there would be no significant "threads" in his books taking place in Seanchan. This would mean that Tuon would have to be coming to Rand's continent. This doesn't seem unlikely, though, because in a point of view that we have from High Lady Suroth, we find out that after the defeat at Falme, several Seanchan ships escaped back across the sea, although she tried to rally as many ships as she could. Therefore, the news of Falme's defeat would have arrived in Seanchan already. In light of that news, the Empress may decide to send Tuon (her favorite), to personally oversee the operations, possibly with the forces of the Return.</p><p>As far as Mat's predicament is concerned, several things are going to endear him to the Seanchan (or freak them out).<ul><li>He can't be touched by the One Power. Knowing the Seanchan bias against those who can channel, this will be seen as a remarkable gift.</li><li>He'll have the raven spear. Ravens are a symbol closely associated with the Empress. Those who wear the raven tattoos are the Deatchwatch, slaves who specifically belong to the Empress who root out Darkfriends.</li><li>The fact that he speaks the Old Tongue.</li><li>Also remember that Mat is in possession of a very special signet ring right now. As he was chasing that Darkfriend through the streets of Ebou Dar, he stopped briefly (and quite accidentally) at a goldsmith's shop, and picked up a ring at random. At this time, dice were rattling in his head like crazy... he thought it had something to do with the woman he was chasing, but I think it had to do with the ring. Also remember that he couldn't get the ring off right away, so threw a bunch of gold at the merchant, and took off with the ring. THEN, suddenly, he could get the ring off his finger... after Fate forces him to buy it. Now remember the description of the ring: Two crescent moons surrounding a depiction of a fox, chasing two birds, "possibly ravens". Mat's medallion is the head of a fox. If the Seanchan come to believe that the fox is Mat's sigil, then the idea that Mat is the fox, chasing ravens (birds known to serve the Dark One), and doing this all in the "embrace" of two (of the Nine?) moons.</li><li>Don't discount Mat's ta'veren-ness.</li><li>As was mentioned in a previous theory post, Mat has this letter from Tylin that hints of Mat personally knowing the "Daughter of the Nine Moons".</li></ul>Anyway, it's not hard to believe that Mat will rise very quickly to the attention of the Empress' daughter, Tuon, who will be arriving any day now.</p><p>On the other hand, the idea that the Seanchan will discover Berelain's ancestry, and will quickly elevate her in the ranks of The Blood to where she could become the Daughter of the Nine Moons isn't out of the question, knowing how Robert Jordan thinks.</p><p>That's my two Andoran weight crowns.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You make a lot of good points, and Mat certainly has enough stuff in his possession to gain him a little standing with the Seanchan.  Let us just say he is discovered by a Seanchan patrol...  Maybe he wakes up, waving his raven-embossed spear and spouting the Old Tongue?  That might get him to some important Seanchan pretty quickly...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-23 00:00:00
subject: Another Guess
body:
<p>Okay, first I'd just like to make another Mat as Odin connection.  You know how there are two ravens on Mat's spear, along with the little quote including, "Thought is the arrow of  time, Memory never fades?"  Well, our old buddy Odin had two pet ravens named, guess what - Thought and Memory.  That, and the whole losing an eye thing.  Those of you who haven't realized Mat will lose an eye are just slackers.  Now, the real issue.  Here's my order of events:<ol><li>Mat gets whacked unconscious looking for the kid.  (Who is Gaidal Cain, by the way.</li><li>Remember how they always talk about how ugly Gaidal was, and how ugly the kid is?</li><li>Seanchan invading force runs over him and finds him, with the note.  (That was pretty clever, whoever mentioned that.)</li><li>Mat is questioned, and only speaks the Old Tongue.  (Memory problems from head whacking.)  So he is taken to someone who SHOULD know the Old Tongue (Nobles are supposed to.), the Daughter of the Nine Moons.</li><li>In an earlier book (don't ask me which one) a guy talks about the rapture, and incredible feelings when testifying in front of the Crystal Throne.</li><li>Mat will not be impressed.</li><li>The Daughter will be.</li><li>Classic Robert Jordan "Female-character-gets-stupid-when-she-gets-involved" thing, and voila!  Mat's got a girl.</li></ol></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know if this is exactly how this will work...  After all, unless the Daughter of the Nine Moons dragged the Crystal Throne all the way across the Aryth Ocean, it would still be back in Seanchan.  And would the Empress (assuming the Daughter of the Nine Moons is the Empress&rsquo; daughter) let the Crystal Throne out of her reach - not likely.  I do like the idea of Mat waking up and speaking only the Old Tongue, though.  All I know is that if Mat does not show up early in Winter&rsquo;s Heart I am going to be extremely upset...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Result of Alanna Mosvani Bonding Rand
body:
<p>First off I will say that I do not like the Aes Sedai, and when Alanna bonded Rand it seemed to me almost like a rape.  However, it also seems to me that everything that happens to Rand is predestined to aid him in some way, either to survive until Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don or to survive the final battle itself.  We have learned that a Warder receives extra reserves of strength and quicker healing because of the link to the Aes Sedai.  This is bound to come in handy for Rand.  The bond has already been useful in helping Alanna find Rand when he was trapped by the Red Ajah at the end of <i>Lord of Chaos</i>.  Personally, I hope Alanna suffers for her presumption and that Rand never recognizes his bond to her.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Certainly the bond has helped Rand, though I do not recall him ever thinking this to himself.  I definitely agree that when Alanna bonded him, it was similar to a rape.  There are some aspects of the average Aes Sedai which I do not like, but they will be essential to Rand&rsquo;s victory in Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  As for bonding, there are good and bad points to this practice.  I am sure you are not alone in some of your opinions and hopes.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: How&rsquo;s This for Justice!
body:
<p>I&rsquo;ve been thinking, I heard it posted somewhere that being stilled severs an Aes Sedai/Warder bond.  Now since Rand didn&rsquo;t exactly volunteer to this why not sever that witch Alanna?  I know the bond&rsquo;s gifts may prove useful, but I&rsquo;d still like to see that broad suffer a bit.  Besides Nynaeve can Heal her afterwards.  Is that not just?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This had never really occurred to me...  It certainly would be a harsh form of justice, and Rand could always be re-bonded by Elayne.  I think the benefits of the bond are a big positive for Rand, though.  And remember how Warders react to their bond being broken?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Re: How&rsquo;s This For Justice!
body:
<p>I do not believe that Rand&rsquo;s solution is severing Alanna.  You have to remember that when Siuan was severed, her Warder died from shock.  Rand severs Alanna and dies from shock?  Strange way to end a book.  I think that Alanna will be forced to pass her bond to Elayne.  My question is: can two women bond the same man?  If so, Elayne and Avi can bond Rand.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Severing Alanna would certainly be a bad thing - Rand keeling over from shock would be sort of a hit to the good guys.  But I would not want to be Alanna when Elayne (and Aviendha, and Min for that matter) gets a hold of her.  Elayne obtaining Rand&rsquo;s bond is a likely possibility.  I have no idea if two women could hold one man&rsquo;s bond...  Maybe we will find out in Book 9.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Rand, Women, and Keeping Callandor
body:
<p>With some thinking about Rand handing Callandor over to Logain and his two Aes Sedai how about the fact that Rand already has Alanna bonded to him and the fact that upon Elayne&rsquo;s return to Caemlyn she tells Dyelin what she wants to do with Rand, bond him as her Warder and hopes to marry him. And since Elayne and Aviendha are becoming first-sisters, Aviendha will bond him as well.</p><p>Also with Rand trusting one former False Dragon to lead the Black Tower, think of how much more faith would it take for him to trust another even after Logain kicks the crap out of Taim. As for a couple of points that might be brought up to toast this whole theory and some possible answers:<ul><li>Two women and a bond to one man - If Logain can bond two AS then that means that two women can share a bond with a single man.</li><li>Aviendha not bonding Rand because it is something that Aiel don&rsquo;t do - Rand is the <i>Car&rsquo;a&rsquo;carn</i> and he brings change (it&rsquo;s lame but true).</li><li>Alanna&rsquo;s bond to Rand - Elayne bonds Rand then Alanna can easily be taken out of the picture since Elayne&rsquo;s bond will act as a buffer for the pain and madness Warders feel after their Aes Sedai dies or is stilled (ex. Lan&rsquo;s bond being passed on to Myrelle after Moiraine went through the <i>ter&rsquo;angreal</i>).</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think the benefit of Logain having two Aes Sedai bonded to him is that apparently he can control them through the bond.  Thus, they would be forced to do his bidding.  Interesting question, though - Alanna tried to force Rand to do something with the bond and it failed.  How does Logain control his Aes Sedai?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Rand and Bonds
body:
<p>We know Elayne wants to bond Rand, but we don&rsquo;t know if two people can bond one Warder. I also think with Rand&rsquo;s paranoia riding high he won&rsquo;t be so eager to be bonded even if the woman he loves asks first. Why not have Rand bond Elayne and Aviendha and Min? He has as much right to ask as they would. I'd like to see the subject come up, Aviendha would be reaching for her belt knife...</p><p>Now I for one am not sure as to Verin&rsquo;s plans, but however I think she is a good candidate for the hypothetical Lightfriends, who use the Creator&rsquo;s True Power, because she seems to be basically good, if ruthless and secretive. Remember how Moraine was in the first few books?</p><p>Do we know if Bayle Domon dumped the black a&rsquo;dam in the sea? I think he would have if he could but we haven&rsquo;t seen him recently and any number of people have reason to interfere.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would think it is possible for two people to bond one Warder, since that is what Logain has done with two Aes Sedai.  You are very right, though - I would love to see Rand suggest he might bond Aviendha...  If there are Lightfriends, Verin is one of them.  And last, I do not know if Domon ever dropped that think into the ocean - I simply assumed he had.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Re: Rand and Bonds
body:
<p>Ok, some people like the idea that Elayne and Alanna can both bond Rand. I disagree.</p><p>For the purpose of this theory, Aes Sedai are female channelers, Asha&rsquo;man are male channelers, Warder is a person bonded to an Aes Sedai via the Aes Sedai bond, and a Mate a person bonded to an Asha&rsquo;man via the Asha&rsquo;man bond. (Remember what Logain said to Toveine in <i>The Path of Daggers</i>? p 516, ["The Extra Bit"] "You&rsquo;re hardly a wife." Besides, the Asha&rsquo;man bonded their wives.)</p><p>I do not know if the bond the Asha&rsquo;man use on their wives in the same Logain used on the Sedai/Mates, since Logain&rsquo;s bond seems to have compulsion, like the Aes Sedai bond, and that was never mentioned to Rand when the wife-bond the Asha&rsquo;man used at first was explained to him.</p><p>An Aes Sedai can have many Warders, like Greens often do, and and Asha&rsquo;man can have many Mates, like Logain. Yet I do not think a Warder can have many Aes Sedai. Or a Mate have many Asha&rsquo;man. It is a completely different thing.</p><p>wotmania&rsquo;s comments to the original post by Shadowkiller was that two Aes Sedai could bond Rand, like Logain and his two Sister/Mates. The difference is that Logain bonded the Sister/Mates, not the other way around. Rand could bond Elayne, via the Asha&rsquo;man bond, and make her a Mate, but I don&rsquo;t think Elayne could bond Rand, since he is already a Warder thanks to Alanna.</p><p>I hope that wasn&rsquo;t too confusing.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Wow, what was I thinking when I wrote that???  I hate when I write stuff like that...  You are entirely correct in pointing out my mistake.  In my more coherent moments, I would never write Alanna and Elayne could both bond Rand.  However, I do think it likely that Elayne might "encourage" Alanna to pass Rand&rsquo;s bond on.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Bondage and Limitations
body:
<p>I have been reading a lot of posts about bonds and who can bond who and how many. I have yet to see anybody ask the question whether someone bonded by an Aes Sedai can bond someone else. Say that Alanna passes her bond to Elayne. Will that limit Rand from bonding Min or Aviendha? Also what does an Asha&rsquo;man receive from his bond that is different from what an Aes Sedai receives from their bond? Would Rand get different benefits from bonding Min and Aviendha, than being bonded (by way of transfer) by Elayne. Which of these types of bonds might shelter him from the taint of <i>saidin</i>? I don&rsquo;t want to theorize what gains are achieved by the bonds, because I am not really sure. But I do agree with that one person can&rsquo;t be bonded to more than one Aes Sedai or Asha&rsquo;man. Though to me that bring to mind the question of bonding circles. Could Aes Sedai make "permanent" circles by bonding each other, so as to be able to utilize more of the One Power? Just some ideas I had to get off my chest.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Certainly a lot of questions, and I do not have many answers...  I cannot imagine Aes Sedai forming permanent circles through bonding.  Can you imagine Aes Sedai giving up their freedom in such a manner?  I wonder what is going to happen the first time an Aes Sedai bonds another Aes Sedai...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Re: Rand and Bonds
body:
<p>Anyone who frequents the theory pages would realize that there is one problem with this theory that I hate to point to everyone. With everyone believes that Moiraine will return to the series Lan will then be bonded to two women. Which according to this theory is impossible, but I do not believe in any of Robert Jordan&rsquo;s book did he mention a way for a bond to disappear. Take Elyas for example - he still has his bond. So then it is possible to be bonded to two women at the same time because eventually it will happen. This series is about changes - everyone has to make changes. So the bonding of one Warder to two Aes Sedai is next.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think it is possible for two Aes Sedai to bond one Warder.  Lan&rsquo;s bond to Moiraine was broken when she dropped through the <i>ter&rsquo;angreal</i> - let us assume she was stilled.  So if Moiraine does come back (which better happen!) her bond to Lan should not magically reappear.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Re: Re: Rand and Bonds
body:
<p>This is in response to Jorge&rsquo;s theory about the Aes Sedai-Warder bond and the Asha&rsquo;man-Wife/Mate bond. First off, let me say that I agree that two people cannot control a single bond. I think of it like a dog leash, in that only one person can have control at any given time. However, control can be passed to someone else. What would happen if another tried to bond someone who was already bonded? I think that would be like putting another leash on a dog that already wears one. (I have nothing to back this theory up, but my own analogy, but just humor me, okay?) I think it may actually be possible for two people to bond someone, but it would be like two people pulling their dog&rsquo;s two leashes in opposite directions, the result being a confused dog that goes nowhere. Is it possible for the two leash-holders to cooperate and pull in the same direction, and give the exact same commands so the dog does what they want? I think, as far as the bond is concerned, that would be about as possible as making a Gateway to Travel to and from the exact same spot that someone else just did, without knowing the destination. I don&rsquo;t remember which book it&rsquo;s from, but does anyone else remember Lanfear (I think, or was is it Asmodean?) explaining to Rand the near impossibility of that feat? She says that you would have to make each weave exactly the same, in every way, and in the exact same fashion as the previous Traveler, and even then it&rsquo;s pretty iffy. So in practical terms, I believe it is impossible for two people to effectively control two separate bonds to the same person. But, they also said it was impossible to Heal stilling, so who knows?</p><p>Just a random afterthought - say Elayne does let Rand bond her. (yeah, right) Would Elayne be Alanna&rsquo;s third party warder, so to speak? Could Alanna use her bond with Rand to make him control Elayne, or at least be "aware" of her through his bond with her? That could get hairy... Well kids, that&rsquo;s all for now...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> You try and tell Lan he is on a dog leash...  Really, I do not know how accurate this analogy is, since the bond does not seem to require active thought by the Aes Sedai.  Maybe being bonded by two Aes Sedai would be like having two really long leashes, with a lot of slack...  It might only become a problem if the two Aes Sedai disagree and start trying to use the bond to force the Warder into doing something.  Do you really think Elayne would mind Alanna being able to read her feelings?  Well, maybe she would mind that a bit...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Logain&rsquo;s Bond - Or Lack Thereof
body:
<p>I don&rsquo;t believe that Logain has actually bonded his sisters. It seems to me to be more akin to Compulsion. This would be Logain&rsquo;s wilder trick, seeing as Logain is technically a "wilder." It also explains why he needs to kiss her to do it. The wife comment I believe is merely a reference to the "inappropriate" kiss. They won&rsquo;t raise a hand against Logain because they have literally fallen in love with him.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have seen this in various places before and I think it is an extremely valid argument.  We probably will not know for certain if Logain is bonding these Aes Sedai or using Compulsion until we get a chapter in his point of view.  Speaking of that, who else wants to see a chapter in the point of view of Logain, Taim, or someone else new?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Bonds
body:
<p>We all know that the bonds between Aes Sedai and Warders or Asha'man and their mates are made with Spirit. As I mentioned in a previous theory, weaves of Spirit manipulate the life-force/soul of animals/plants/people. (I forgot to mention that Spirit will also manipulate the Pattern, like with Traveling).</p><p>Aes Sedai weave Spirit around their Warder, but what happens is the Warder's soul (philotic web of awareness that is connected to the single philote that is one's mind) is drawn to the Aes Sedai's. The bond is actually just the permanent philotic connection between the two people. A bond cannot be made between two people unless one of them is doing the weaving.</p><p>When someone's bond is passed the Aes Sedai who hold the bond makes a different weave that splits the bond so that it will collapse onto itself. This connects the Warder to the second Aes Sedai. The Warder, nor the first Aes Sedai, has any real philotic connection to the second Aes Sedai. The split is so minuscule that it is unnoticeable.</p><p>While the Wolfkin bond is temporary, the Warder bond is permanent. While the wolves can actually send thoughts through the bond, it is emotions and life-force that is passed through Warder bond. While Wolfkin can sense emotions through a very temporary bond that searches through another's soul, Warders can sense the taint of the Dark One through more of a web of philotic rays surrounding them.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, I have been writing responses to theories for quite a while now, and I do not think I am up to writing a response concerning Card's philotic theory...  Seriously, there very well could be a connection between the bond between an Aes Sedai and her Warder and the way wolves and Wolfkin communicate.  Perhaps we need a chapter from Elyas' point of view to get a better idea of the similarities?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Warders and the One Power
body:
<p>I've been thinking about the one theory somewhere on this theory post about the possibility of <i>saidar</i> being the taint. At first it seemed totally absurd, but the more I think about it, the more plausible it seems. I'm not converting to this way of thought, but there is a possibility that the seals give the Dark One access to the entire One Power. And, because of his limited powers, the Dark One could only taint one half of the Power using the other. At this point and time the Dark One is pretty ticked off at the male Aes Sedai so he taints <i>saidin</i>. I don't know how he managed it, but the only way a male channeler can get to <i>saidin</i> now is to reach through <i>saidar</i>, which makes them go nuts and rot. Keep in mind this is just hypothetical and there are some glitches, but this is just so my theory can work.</p><p>Now, let's get back on track here. The bond is an extension of the soul; that's the best explanation I can think of. The extension of a channeling soul to a non-channeling soul, in most cases. This would definitely affect the non-channelers in some ways. Like, extended life-span, probably quicker healing, more endurance...  Hmmmm, does this remind you of any particular group of people? Warders seem to get after-effects of the Power by being bonded to a channeler. And, the more the channeler holds the Power, the more the benefits grow. It's second-hand channeling!</p><p>One of the biggest effects of the second-hand channeling experienced by Warders is their ability to sense the Dark One's taint. If the taint is in fact <i>saidar</i>, then the Warders' second-hand channeling might make them sensitive to the <i>saidar</i>-like taint inside the Dark One's minions. Of course, they would sense the same thing in their Aes Sedai while they were holding the Power, or would they? Maybe it's just that the Warders are connected to the One Power and not necessarily <i>saidar</i>. Maybe the connection to a channeler would set off some kind of itsy-bitsy, teen-weeny, tiny bit of channeling ability that is in all men. I'm talking minute, here - smaller than Morgase's channeling ability. Or the very connection to <i>saidar</i> cannot be made, so an after-effect of the bond is a small connection to <i>saidin</i>; this second would have nothing to do with the taint being <i>saidar</i>, but now that I'm on the subject I have to talk about it. All male channelers can sense the Dark One's taint, at least we've seen Rand do it, and he's not much different from any other channeler, except in power. I think it's the exposure to the taint, but maybe it's just being on the opposite side of the taint (if the taint is <i>saidar</i>). Warders do the same thing, so it is logical to deduce that their ability to sense the taint is somehow connected to the Power.</p><p>If the Warders are getting the effects of <i>saidar</i>, the question is: Why don't they go mad too? I don't know. Maybe it's because the channeling is being done by someone else, they are just getting the effects. This is a good segway to my little theory about links or circles or whatever you call them.</p><p>We've never had a bi-gender link described to us, so this is just total speculation. I don't think the women in a link would get any affects of the taint. First, if you go by this theory, they are using the taint as their Power. If you think (like I do) that the taint is a weave of the True Power, I think it's because the actual <i>saidin</i> is being held by someone else and that's why the women in a link don't get the effects of the taint. They might feel in on the Power they are weaving (I'd also like to know how it is possible for a woman to weave <i>saidin</i>, but that's for another theory), but the taint wouldn't reach them. If the taint is in fact <i>saidar</i>, then the women wouldn't feel a thing. It would be just like clean Power for them.</p><p>Hmmm, let's see if I can work something about Moridin into this theory...  Nope. Well, I guess that's all for now.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It took me a while just to figure out where to put this theory...  I still have not decided what I think the taint is exactly - whether it is the True Power or <i>saidar</i> or something else.  I am really not quite sure what to say to this one, other than the Warders&rsquo; benefits may very well somehow be connected to the fact that their souls are somehow maybe "connected" to the soul of a channeler.  Have any of the women bonded to the Asha&rsquo;man shown similar strengths?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Reborn Heroes
body:
<p>I don&rsquo;t think that Mat is Artur Hawkwing reborn, but I do believe that he is somebody reborn. Remember Mat had strange memories long before he went to Rhuidean. He was shouting battle cries in <i>The Eye of the World</i> and was dreaming of battlefields in <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> after being Healed. Whoever Mat was, this person had strong ties to Manetheren. Perhaps Aemon himself. However that doesn&rsquo;t make much sense considering what he was screaming at the Aes Sedai while he was being Healed (something along the lines of "I am no Aes Sedai meat") and Aemon was a Warder to Queen Eldrene. On the other hand it would make for a pretty piece of irony (which Jordan seems so fond of using): in <i>Lord of Chaos</i> Nalesean and Talmanes ask Mat if he ever considered being a Warder, to which Mat responds: All Warders are fools (or something to that effect).</p><p>Just another thought on Gaidal Cain and Olver. We know that Gaidal is no longer in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;riod. He was probably spun out shortly before Birgitte was ripped out. I agree there are some time problems with Olver being Gaidal Cain, but the Pattern is after all just that a pattern, and if something throws it off balance it will compensate (that&rsquo;s what ta&rsquo;veren are for). And Moghedien tearing Birgitte out before the Pattern is ready certainly counts as an imbalance. So what does the Pattern do? What can it do? Birgitte and Cain will need one another eventually, and now she is a grown woman and Cain is a baby. Exceptions have to be made when something like this happens. That&rsquo;s how Olver could have become Cain reborn without being him at birth, an attempt by the Pattern to deal with an imbalance. Also interesting, Olver follows Mat after he is left behind in Cairhien. He&rsquo;s just a little boy, but somehow he finds Mat&rsquo;s camp and sneaks past guards and into Mat&rsquo;s tent. Aren&rsquo;t the Heroes of the Horn supposed to follow the Hornsounder no matter what? Birgitte knows who and what she is, perhaps Olver knows on a subconscious level.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Interesting idea about Olver attaching himself to Mat because Mat is the Hornsounder!  I certainly lean towards the idea of Olver being Gaidal Cain reborn.  Also, I definitely agree that Mat is not Hawkwing reborn.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Who Will Find the Tinker&rsquo;s Song
body:
<p>To me this one seems simple, and I don&rsquo;t know why anybody else hasn&rsquo;t thought of it yet. When the Tinker&rsquo;s song is found it will obviously lead to the Aiel and the Tinkers becoming one again. Now, I don&rsquo;t want to say that the Aiel will through down their spears (that&rsquo;s just too drastic), but they&rsquo;ll at least start talking. To do this (it probably won&rsquo;t happen until towards the end of the series), Aram will find the song. The Tinkers would have to take him back then - regardless whether he fights or not. I think the Aiel would be forced into it too. Just a thought.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I like the idea of Aram being the one to find the song.  Boy would his grandparents feel silly for kicking him out of their little group of Tinkers...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Bits and Pieces
body:
<p>Alright, this is my first posting and I have a few stuff to get off my chest.</p><p>In <i>A Crown of Swords</i> at the end of the chapter entitled "Unseen Eyes," Egwene describes some of her dreams.<blockquote>"A golden hawk stretched out its wing and touched her, and she and the hawk were tied together somehow; all she new was that the hawk was female."</blockquote>Alright. The golden hawk can be interpreted as Berelain especially since other images concerning hawks that were somehow known to be female are also connected to Berelain. What I don&rsquo;t get is, what is the connection between Berelain and Egwene? If I remember correctly Egwene didn&rsquo;t like Berelain very much, come to think of it, none of the women in all of Randland like Berelain very much. I can&rsquo;t seem to be able to draw any lines connecting the two characters.</p><p>Secondly, if "blood on the Rocks of Shayol Ghul..." can be interpreted as Galad&rsquo;s blood, why not be even more general and say Aiel blood on the rocks? The Aiel after all are the People of the Dragon, Rand is after all half Aiel in blood, and the Car&rsquo;a&rsquo;carn is supposed to take them back and "destroy them." Here&rsquo;s a possible scenario, Rand leads an army to Shayol Ghul a la Lews Therin and his strike at Shayol Ghul, who better to have than the entire Aiel Nation? Just a thought.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I cannot imagine why none of the women like Berelain...  Berelain is a tough, resourceful, and intelligent leader.  I can see her and Egwene getting along rather well.  Maybe she could even teach Egwene a thing or two.  I do not think it will be Galad&rsquo;s blood shed at Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don.  If that is the way you want to look at this prophecy, though, the idea it might be Aiel blood is entirely valid.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Narishma as Tamrylin?
body:
<p>A lot of people including myself really like the idea of Logain being Tamyrlin thus at least in part fulfilling some of his foreseen "glory." But it was Narishma who pulled <i>Callandor</i> from the Stone and is the one prophesied to "follow after." Now, maybe Logain will be given <i>Callandor</i> later, but he still did not pull it from the Stone. Perhaps with <i>Callandor</i>, Logain can achieve his glory via helping Rand win the Last Battle. I am beginning to like the idea of Narishma growing into the role of Tamyrlin and helping rebuild the Aes Sedai post Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don. Just a possibility.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Narishma...  Now there is a guy who does not get discussed much.   I think this is the first time he has appeared no the site.  You make a good point - it was Narishma who Rand trusted to pull <i>Callandor</i> out of the Stone of Tear.  I still think Logain is going to end up with <i>Callandor</i>, but maybe it will be Narishma who becomes Tamyrlin.  Certainly a reasonable idea.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Ways
body:
<p>I had a thought about a week ago that kept with me for the entire time: What are the Ways? In the books it is said that no one knew how the Ways were made, but I think I do. In <i>The Shadow Rising</i>, when Rand opens the gateway and skims to Rhuidean, it sparked my thinking. Both the Ways and Skimming allow for quicker travel, gravity works differently in both, the laws of nature are different. So I thought, maybe when the male Aes Sedai made the Ways for the Ogier in return for shelter, they really created an extensive Skimming portal, and Waygates could just be the openings, protected by doorways. Any takers?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> The major problem I have with this is that the Ways are described as being alive in some way.  The sort of "emptiness" through which one Skims is never described in that manner.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Who Led the Attack on Rand in Cairhien?
body:
<p>After Rand&rsquo;s attackers escape in Cairhien with Dashiva, Taim comes and tells Rand of four traitors: Torval, Gedwyn, Rochaid and Kisman.  At the beginning of <i>A Crown of Swords</i>, when Taim is leaving Dumai&rsquo;s Wells, he calls on his four captains to assemble the Asha&rsquo;man: Torval, Gedwyn, Rochaid and Kisman.  Did four of the highest ranking Asha&rsquo;man coincidentally decide to rebel?  I think not.  Robert Jordan doesn&rsquo;t seem to believe in coincidences.  The question is, were they following Taim?  Dashiva?  Or were they independent?  Remember that Taim says "I can&rsquo;t express my joy over finding you alive after what I did above."  I think Taim took part in the attack.  He is plenty arrogant enough to make a joke like that in front of Rand (I think that this is further proof that Taim is not Demandred, as he is under orders not to attack Rand).  This of course still doesn&rsquo;t explain Dashiva&rsquo;s involvement in the attack, but I think that his role will become apparent in the next book.  However, I don&rsquo;t think Dashiva wanted to be seen.  The attack failed and he probably hoped he could remain near Rand.  When Rand saw him he snarled, angry at being discovered.  Dashiva is definitely more than he appears to be.  He is like Verin, designed to keep the reader guessing and confused.  What I would like to know is how could an attack by half a dozen of the strongest Asha&rsquo;man fail?  Rand says that Dashiva and Taim are both very close to him in power.  Can ta&rsquo;veren be used to explain this?  Or was Dashiva&rsquo;s purpose to stop the attack?  The Dark One doesn&rsquo;t want Rand killed.  Not yet anyway.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know too much on this specific topic, I need to reread <i>A Crown of Swords</i> and <i>The Path of Daggers</i> .  But I personally feel that Taim is not Demandred (but might be serving the Shadow), and I am leaning towards the idea that Dashiva might be Osan&rsquo;gar.  If that is the case, it is entirely possible that Torval, Gedwyn, Rochaid, and Kisman are siding with the Shadow as well.  It would make sense if Taim is serving the Dark One that he would choose men to lead the Asha&rsquo;man who are also tied to the Shadow.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: More Confirmation that Logain Will Wield
body:
<p>In The Path Of Daggers, Rand has a very illuminating conversation with Cadsuane in which she reveals that <i>Callandor</i> is flawed and thus dangerous to use. Its use causes the amplification of the madness, inherent to using <i>saidin</i>, and provokes a loss of control of the individual wielding it.  We see a wonderful example of this happening during Rand&rsquo;s campaign against the Seanchan.</p><p>Cadsuane proposes the solution of creating a link between two Aes Sedai that would allow the man controlling <i>Callandor</i> to wield it without endangering himself with its inherent flaw.  Now, knowing that Robert Jordan doesn&rsquo;t tend to just toss out information like this unless he plans on doing something with it later, we can safely assume that whoever ends up using <i>Callandor</i> will have to control the Sword that is not a Sword with the aid of two Aes Sedai.</p><p>Now, on to Logain. In <i>The Path of Daggers</i> we see Toveine leading the, thus far, disastrous campaign against the Black Tower.  Her group is ambushed and taken captive by a detachment of Asha&rsquo;man under Logain&rsquo;s command.  Toveine freaks out completely and, in order to calm her, Logain bonds her to him.  After Logain has done this, one of the other Asha&rsquo;man makes the comment that the M&rsquo;Hael won&rsquo;t be happy about him having taken another.  This means that Logain now has two Aes Sedai firmly in his control that could thus facilitate his use of <i>Callandor</i>.</p><p><font color="#000099"><b>wotmania</b></font> says:   I agree with this theory completely.  Logain&rsquo;s two bonded Aes Sedai would allow him to safely use <i>Callandor</i> while not worrying about a woman controlling the weaves.  Perhaps he will use <i>Callandor</i> to remove Taim from the Black Tower...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I agree with this theory completely.  Logain&rsquo;s two bonded Aes Sedai would allow him to safely use <i>Callandor</i> while not worrying about a woman controlling the weaves.  Perhaps he will use <i>Callandor</i> to remove Taim from the Black Tower...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Is Bela the Creator?
body:
<p>OK, I know you&rsquo;re probably thinking, "this person is insane," but hear me out.  Bela isn&rsquo;t necessarily the Creator, but in my opinion there&rsquo;s more to this shaggy mare then we think.  For starters, Mat and Perrin have not been in every book; Bela has.  That in itself is nothing, but with the other evidence, it could make you wonder.  And remember when Perrin was caught by the Whitecloaks?  The way Nynaeve knew Perrin was there was because she saw Bela. And in <i>The Eye of the World</i> , I seem to remember a time when supposedly Rand helped Bela carry Egwene safely and help the horse finish the journey out of the Two Rivers using <i>saidin</i>.  Could it have been, instead, that Bela herself called on a higher power to give her energy?  Also, while Egwene was in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod, she asked for a horse, and Bela came.  Notice she asked for a horse, but she got Bela.  And when you think about it, the only other horse that left the Two Rivers and is still around is Mandarb.  But Bela has been all over the continent, with different owners, and she is not all that valuable.  Mandarb is extremely valuable as a warhorse, and has only had one owner.  Robert Jordan does not do seemingly strange things without a reason!  Nearly every little thing that seemingly has no point, but catches your eye because something was strange about it, has had something important to contribute to the story.  There are many examples of this.  Even though I don&rsquo;t know exactly what role Bela will play, I am almost certain that an important part of the story will revolve around a shaggy dun mare.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> While it is true that Robert Jordan seldom puts in little facts without reason...  The only point I&rsquo;m going to make is that Egwene asking for a horse in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod and getting Bela is natural; Egwene would unconsciously ask for Bela if she was asking for a horse - Bela is familiar to her.  Perhaps Jordan just likes Bela so he keeps her around.  Personally, I have trouble believing Bela is going to play a large part in any of the major plot lines.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Illuminators
body:
<p>There is one rather powerful faction that is continually overlooked.  This faction is that of the Illuminators.  In <i>The Great Hunt</i> an Illuminator nightflower blasts a few Trollocs and a large wall into oblivion and in <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> Mat blasts his way into the Stone of Tear with some firecrackers.  My question is, why is Rand overlooking them?  One would think that things like nightflowers would be good in campaigns against Shadowspawn like Draghkar and Seanchan raken and to&rsquo;raken , along with demolition and pyrotechnic capabilities when Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man are in short supply.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think the Illuminators&rsquo; skills could ever be a substitute for Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man.  However they do hold the keys for the development of technologies such as matches and gun powder.  It seems unlikely the Illuminators will play a large part in the story at this point, but who knows what might happen before The Wheel of Time winds to a conclusion?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Moiraine Said...
body:
<p>In <i>The Dragon Reborn</i> Chapter 6 page 57 Moiraine is talking about the vagueness of the Prophecies and she says "What does it mean he shall bind the nine moons to serve him?" -I take this to mean he&rsquo;ll gain control of the Seanchan.  "What &lsquo;wound of madness and cutting of hope&rsquo; has he healed?" -Now could the &lsquo;wound of madness&rsquo; be the cut from Fain&rsquo;s dagger and the &lsquo;cutting of hope&rsquo; be the old wound he received from Ishamael? This would mean he will someday be healed. "What chains has he broken, and who put into chains?" -He has forced that group of Aes Sedai to follow him, Min saw them in his hand, and perhaps he shall free the leashed ones when he gains control of the Seanchan, if not that would make Egwene upset considering her experience with them, which could be the Amyrlin&rsquo;s anger from Elaida&rsquo;s Fortelling.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think you are correct about your Seanchan theory, as well as putting the Aes Sedai in "chains" and perhaps freeing the <i>damane</i> .  I think eventually the "wound of madness" might be the cleansing of <i>saidin</i>.  Only time shall tell, though.  I can certainly see why Moiraine told Rand not to bother trying to figure out what all the prophecies mean...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Regarding Bela&rsquo;s Significance in WoT
body:
<p>In response to the theory naming Bela as the Creator, I wish to offer the following suggestions.  The reason that Nynaeve was able to find her when the Whitecloaks had Perrin and Egwene stems from telepathic abilities that some say animals still retain, but humans have lost.  Perhaps Nynaeve can communicate with horses the way that Perrin can talk to wolves.  Maybe these abilities will become necessary later in the series if someone, likely Egwene, needs to be rescued.  Perhaps Bela will come to her aid.  Another possibility for Bela&rsquo;s significance in the series is that perhaps she will mate with Mandarb, and their offspring will be a super-intelligent-wonderhorse like the Mr. Ed, Trigger, or Silver of Randland.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Nynaeve talking to horses?  I do not think so...  I think it was just chance that Bela was tied up where she was.  I think that super-intelligent wonderhorse part of the theory might be a bit of a stretch as well...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Where
body:
<p>Everyone wonders where <i>Machin Shin</i> comes from. Well, I&rsquo;ve figured it out. Now we all know that <i>Machin Shin</i> eats the body and soul of its victims. And we all know that Mashadar does some weird thing to its victims. Probably eats them and their souls also. Don&rsquo;t see the connection? Well let me clue you in. Mashadar came from the taint in Shadar Logoth. There is not a single pebble in Shadar Logoth that is not tainted. Well, guess what? There is a Waygate in Shadar Logoth! So that Waygate must have succumbed to the tainting. And that tainting eventually led out to the rest of the ways. So <i>Machin Shin</i> is nothing more than a mutated form of Mashadar.</p><p>You might ask why the taint of Shadar Logoth didn&rsquo;t flow into the rest of the world through the Ways if that&rsquo;s how they were tainted. Well, to answer your question with another question, why would the taint exit the ways into the world if <i>Machin Shin</i> itself can&rsquo;t? Also, why doesn&rsquo;t the taint just spill into the rest of the world from Shadar Logoth itself? So the world is safe.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I am pretty sure that <i>Machin Shin</i> and the taint in Shadar Logoth are totally separate entities.  Everything in the books describes <i>Machin Shin</i> as a product of the taint on <i>saidin</i>, and Mashadar as a result of the evil of the folk of Aridhol.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: How to Kill a
body:
<p>So far we&rsquo;ve only seen one <i></i><i>Gholam</i> , in a fight against our heroes Mat, Nynaeve and Elayne at the end of A Crown Of Swords. We've also had evidence for the following facts.<ul><li>The One Power weaves melt away, just like with Mat&rsquo;s amulet.</li><li><i>Gholam</i> are not affected by normal steel weapons.</li><li><i>Gholam</i> are faster and more flexible than men (we learned why from Birgitte).</li><li>Mat's amulet burned and hurt the <i></i><i>Gholam</i>.</li></ul>We&rsquo;ve learned from Birgitte that<ul><li>They were created during the War of the Power.</li><li>Only six were made because the Forsaken even feared them.</li><li>They have no spine and are flexible enough to get under a doorway.</li></ul>Now my suggestions for ways to kill one of them.<ul><li>The <i></i><i>Gholam</i> was never touched by Mat&rsquo;s power wrought blade. We may be able to assume blades wrought from the power have the same burning affect as the foxhead amulet, and may kill a <i></i><i>Gholam</i> . This is also assuming Mat&rsquo;s amulet is One Power wrought.</li><li><i>Saidin</i>. Mat often fears <i>saidin</i> and thinks his amulet will be no protection against it. Remembering how the <i></i><i>Gholam</i>&rsquo;s ability to melt weaves is described as "just like" Mat&rsquo;s amulet, then maybe it is the same in this regard. This is not too likely as there were male Aes Sedai in the War of the Power and it would have been designed to kill them also.</li><li>True Power. In this theory I propose that the creator of the <i></i><i>Gholam</i>, Aginor, would have had some safeguard against the <i></i><i>Gholam</i> should they turn against him. This safeguard is good because Aes Sedai can&rsquo;t use it. I&rsquo;m sure there should be a way for our heroes to kill them though, and they won&rsquo;t use the True Power. Maybe they&rsquo;ll have to recapture a Forsaken and force them to use the True Power against a <i></i><i>Gholam</i>.</li><li>Balefire. This weave was discontinued early in the War of Power, so it is likely Aginor didn&rsquo;t factor such a strong and lethal weave into the <i></i><i>Gholam</i>&rsquo;s immunity. If this is true however, one has to wonder whether Mat is vulnerable.</li><li>The One Power, though not directly. Maybe in the form of calling lightning or throwing rocks. This will work, we've seen it used on Mat.</li></ul>Of all these I like the True Power as the most likely. The last theory may also be likely.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I also tend to believe that the <i></i><i>Gholam</i> might be vulnerable to the True Power.  After all, Aginor is an intelligent man.  Why would he build something which could be used against himself with no way to stop it?  It makes sense he would create them with an achilles heel which only the Forsaken could actually make use of.  Two other things - Mat&rsquo;s medallion does work against <i>saidin</i>, and things done with the One Power (lightning, etc.) could indeed hurt Mat (or a <i></i><i>Gholam</i>).<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Origin of Channeling Ability
body:
<p>Two things got me thinking about where channeling ability actually comes from i.e. whether there is a genetic component, or something else. In particular the way it seems to be dwindling (many references to how empty the White Tower is compared to the past, and how weak current Aes Sedai are in comparison with those who have gone), and some possible explanations. I should point out here that I haven't listed the evidence, mostly because I remember most of the things in my head, and it would take too long to fish them out, but where I could I've pointed to the direction I got things. I'll explore the possible genetic link in channeling first.</p><p>The rarity of channeling ability can only mean that the channeling allele is a recessive one - you have to get one from each parent to have any ability, which means there has to have been channeling ancestors, or descendants of them somewhere in your heritage. This is not terribly important however, most of the evidence is circumstantial rather than empirical.</p><p>The very first thing that pointed to a genetic component was back in <i>The Eye of the World</i> I think, where Egwene mentions what one of the Aes Sedai lecturers said about channeling ability being culled out of the human race by the Reds. It was argued that by hunting down men who could channel, gentling them and most of them not having children, along with Aes Sedai themselves rarely marrying, and even more rarely having children, that the genes for channeling were being removed from the pool.</p><p>Of course from later books I can find a few flaws with this explanation - the most telling that only men who showed signs of channeling - i.e. those with the spark could ever have been caught because they would lose control with no one to teach them. If indeed there is a genetic component to how channeling manifests itself, then only those with the spark were being "culled".</p><p>The second thing that made me thing along these lines was Egwene's thoughts in <i>The Path of Daggers</i> when they were recruiting women, rather than letting them come on their own. She wondered how strong the White Tower could be if they had recruited a thousand years ago as she does, getting anyone of any age and adding them to the novice book, rather than expecting young women to find the Tower, and turning away those "too old". If what the earlier Aes Sedai had said is true, then such a shift in policy would have been a fatal folly. Men have been hunted down since the Breaking, removing their genes (at least those with the spark). We are often told that Aes Sedai do not marry, and even less frequently have children (excepting those severed who choose to have children to fill their lives). If every woman who could channel was gathered in, there would be very few people who could channel having children at all (excepting those men who could learn). The pool of channelers would dwindle rapidly within a few generations, and indeed there probably wouldn't be a White Tower in the present as there would be no one left in it.</p><p>However, many things have lead me to believe that in fact there is little or no genetic link to channeling ability. Firstly, there is very rarely any mention of Aes Sedai having siblings or cousins who could also channel (though the Sea Folk in <i>The Path of Daggers</i> did). Other channelers the same; though Rand's real parents weren't tested, I don't think either could channel (though in his past there were channelers). No one in Egwene's family that we know of ever showed the ability to channel, though of course the ability was strong in Manetheren, and so may have been scattered and come together in Egwene and Nynaeve and all the others. But no, unlike many other traits which are genetic, there does not seem to be any connection between ability to channel and that ability in ancestors.</p><p>Another thing that strikes me is that there appears to be a resurgence in channeling ability - not just in frequency, but also strength. Men were found in their hundreds and are continuing to be found by Taim and his recruiting parties. The Salidar Aes Sedai find women in their thousands on their journey (if you include the Kin). There are those who are remarkably strong considering how weak Aes Sedai have been of recent times - Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve, Nicola, those of the Kin, and also those of middling ability which again has been rare. Though there have been no records of such, the Black Tower seems to have a remarkable number of strong channelers (granted men are stronger than women on average anyway), shown by the sheer number who can Travel.</p><p>What really pointed me in the direction of a possible solution is the deaths and resurrection of the Forsaken. All the Forsaken (Aginor, Balthamel, Ishamael, Lanfear) resurrected could channel in their new bodies. If there was a genetic link, then they would need the bodies of people who could channel, and would presumably only be as strong as the person who they occupied. Considering the rarity of people who can channel, and also the retreat of the Blight and falling numbers of prisoners, it would be highly unlikely that four prisoners who could channel very strongly could be found. Something that Shaidar Haran said when Aginor and Balthamel were resurrected as Osan'gar and Aran'gar explained this. He said "the body bends to the soul, the mind to the body". They had their souls put in new bodies. But they could still channel as they did before (and had all their memories) because the soul determines the ability to channel. But the mind shapes itself to the body, which is why Balthamel can hardly remember what it was like to be a man.</p><p>So having established that channeling is linked to the soul, we must remember that everyone is someone else reborn into each Age. Rand is the Dragon Reborn, which is why he can channel at all, and is as strong as Lews Therin was. Which brings the question why the souls of those who are strong in the Power are being reborn now. The only thing I can speculate is that because the Last Battle is near, the strongest will be needed by both sides, and so the Wheel is spinning them out. So perhaps the frequency and strength of channelers is related to the Age, as channeling ability is related to the soul.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is a very interesting idea.  I had one good point I wanted to make, but forgot what it was as I continued to read...  In any event, good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Infinite
body:
<p>I was just going back and rereading some of the stuff on the Theory Post (Yes! I admit it! I spend every free moment on wotmania! I AM A WOTAHOLIC!!!! Sorry, random outburst there.) when I noticed a theory I had to respond to. The question has arisen whether the Creator can be infinitely powerful. Just as a recap: People could break into the prison the Creator made, but if he was infinitely powerful, his constructs couldn't be broken into. Ergo, no infinite power.</p><p>Or is there? Remember that people were worried by the effects of balefire, especially very powerful beams of it, possibly unraveling (destroying) the Pattern. Perhaps this effect of balefire is not due solely to the effect of the weave, but to its very POWER. Huge amounts of Power have the potential to damage the Pattern, regardless of weave. Thus, infinite amounts of Power have the potential to DESTROY the Pattern. Thus, though the Creator is infinitely powerful, he cannot exert infinite power within his Creation without destroying it. This could be the source of the Creator's nonintervention policy, since any amount of power wielded by an infinite being has the potential for extreme damage to the Pattern.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Good point, Bish!  Man, I wish I could think of things like this...  Of course, that is why I have the Theory Post, so others can read theories and hopefully these theories will spark their own theories, which will spark more theories...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Rand&rsquo;s Three Women
body:
<p>I firmly believe if for no other reason than this, Rand al&rsquo;Thor will die in the end of this series just to avoid having to be in the middle of those three women.  I can&rsquo;t find any way for him to get out of this mess.  The only way that none of the three women get stiffed is for Rand to die.  It&rsquo;s morbid, but I think I&rsquo;d want to die before telling any of the three of them that I was choosing another!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I would not want to be Rand telling Min, Elayne, or Aviendha he was choosing someone else.  Given that, it is a good thing he will not have to.  Aviendha is certainly used to the idea of sister-wives.  Min and Elayne have both indicated they would share Rand.  Rand will not die and will be able to keep all three women that he loves.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Wanderer
body:
<p>I think that the Wanderer Rand met in Shadar Logoth at the end of <i>A Crown of Swords</i> was really Graendal in disguise.  It would explain the fact that Rand didn&rsquo;t feel anything when the man threw the balefire from his hands (it was <i>saidar</i>)</p><p>I don&rsquo;t think the Wanderer is Moridin (aka Ishamael).  The Wanderer seemed somewhat indifferent to Rand, but he didn&rsquo;t seem to hold any particular hatred of him (as you would expect of Moridin).  This attitude describes Graendal perfectly.</p><p>The Wanderer also seemed to want Sammael dead as much as Rand.  Although this trait could describe any of the Forsaken, you would think Graendal would have a special motive after the humiliation Sammael put her through with the Aiel.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Everyone knows I hate to disagree...  But Rand did not feel anything when the wanderer channeled balefire - he can sense when a woman is channeling <i>saidar</i>.  I think the wanderer&rsquo;s attitude is a great deal like that of Moridin.  And I do not think that Sammael&rsquo;s slight humiliation of Graendal would be enough reason for her to kill him.  The Forsaken do not like each other and would not mind seeing a few of the others killed, but they never resort to open attacks among themselves.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: There Is No Stone
body:
<p>Now I was reading the scene in <i>A Crown of Swords</i> (Chapter 13 - "The Bowl of the Winds") when Elayne and Nynaeve were bargaining with the Sea Folk to get the Windfinders to help with the Bowl of the Winds.  The Windfinders seem to be better at weather control than either the Aes Sedai or the Wise Ones.  This reminded me of Moiraine&rsquo;s statement in either <i>The Eye of the World</i> or <i>The Great Hunt</i> that in the Age of Legends female Aes Sedai were on average better at Water and Air, weaves essential to weather control, and males were better with Fire and Earth.  At the end of <i>Lord of Chaos</i> the Asha&rsquo;man make rings of exploding earth to kill/disperse the Shaido.  This would seem to indicate that the old saying has some truth to it.  It also makes me wonder which weaves are in balefire.  My bet is that some Spirit is involved.  That could be why actual threads of the Pattern are burned out.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is entirely true that women are better at Water and Air, men are better with Earth and Fire.  Your idea about Spirit in balefire makes a great deal of sense.  I do not think the threads of the Power woven into balefire have ever been described in detail.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Robert Jordan&rsquo;s Genius
body:
<p>I would bet that most people who visit this extraordinary website love The Wheel of Time, and do not have to be convinced by anyone, let alone myself, that Robert Jordan is a literary genius.  Therefore, I don&rsquo;t really have to prove that Jordan is a genius.  The purpose of this theory is merely to give one example of how subtle Jordan&rsquo;s genius can be.  In Chapter 7 of <i>The Path of Daggers</i>, "A Goatpen," Jordan masterfully slips in an allusion that boggled my mind.  It is not extremely meaningful to the plot, it is just a very subtle allusion that marks Jordan&rsquo;s genius.  On page 160 Perrin&rsquo;s thoughts describe what he just happens to see in the sky:  "In spite of himself, he glanced to the sky and saw nothing, of course except a pair of pigeons.  Abruptly a hawk plummeted into his sight, and one of the pigeons was gone in a spray of feathers.  The other winged on frantically toward Bethal."  This paragraph caught my attention as soon as I read it.  I thought to myself, being the day dreamer that I am, I always am looking up into nothing, and I have never seen a hawk snatch a pigeon out of the sky.  Either Perrin&rsquo;s ta&rsquo;veren-ess was on that day, or Jordan wanted to tell us something else.  Keeping this paragraph in mind I read on.  It didn&rsquo;t take me long to figure out what Jordan was really telling us.  To be precise as soon as Perrin stumbled across Morgase and her crew, Balwer in particular, I had my theory all put together.  Jordan&rsquo;s pigeon story was telling Perrin, and retelling us, Balwer&rsquo;s story.  Balwer is, of course, the pigeon that escapes.  This is an appropriate animal for Balwer considering he was the former head of intelligence for the Whitecloaks, and probably very familiar with that particular bird.  Jordan actually uses many bird references while describing Balwer.  For example, on page 180, Perrin&rsquo;s thoughts describe Balwer:  "...Balwer rose on his toes, peering over his bundle, head tilting this way and that.  Not a wolf, perhaps; some sort of bird."  Then later on, on page 206, Balwer is wearing a "sparrow-brown coat" and when he tilts his head for a quick bow Perrin believes it adds to his "...image as a bird."  As soon as I established that Balwer is the pigeon it was evident to me that the hawk represents the Seanchan.  I believe this because Balwer really did escape from the Seanchan in Amador, plus who are the Seanchan anyway?  Artur HAWKwing&rsquo;s descendants.  This theory doesn&rsquo;t prove anything anyone didn't already believe, that Jordan is a genius, it just blows my mind when I think about how clever Jordan actually is.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This theory really does not theorize, but anything that calls this an "extraordinary website" automatically gets put in...  Seriously, Jordan does put in a lot of excellent references like this.  I do not know if I would call him a genius for sure, though.  Obviously I think he is a very talented author, but I want to see the end of the series before I consider him a genius.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: How the Wheel Will Turn
body:
<p>I have worked this one out with my friends, and they agree.  When Rand fights the Dark One in the Last Battle, possibly the only way to harm the Dark One will be to use balefire.  Rand will use some kind of <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> to make himself all-powerful, and use a thread of balefire so large that it will unravel time back to Creation.  But what if the Dark One was created, and wasn&rsquo;t just there?  Then whoever created him will create him again, and it will start over.</p><p>Also, perhaps Uno is Gaidal Cain?  You can&rsquo;t get much more ugly than that.  Also, Birgitte isn&rsquo;t the Daughter of the Nine Moons, she loves Cain too much, and besides that would make it too complicated.  The Daughter of the Nine Moons is the Empress of the Seanchan.  In <i>A Crown of Swords</i>, when Mat is playing dice, "...the Daughter of the Nine Moons will walk in to claim me..."  Some guy had a heart attack, and then says he&rsquo;s fine, in a soft slurring accent.  Ring a bell?  Also, I&rsquo;m told that at the end of a book somewhere a Seanchan soldier stands on a hill and thinks of when the Daughter of the Nine Moons will take the land back from the oath-breakers.  I think.  But it&rsquo;s pretty obvious.</p><p>And if you haven&rsquo;t worked it out already, Perrin&rsquo;s hawk is Berelain, the First of Mayene.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Easy stuff first.  Yep - Berelain is Perrin&rsquo;s hawk, the Daughter of the Nine Moons is the Seanchan Empress. I do not think Uno is Gaidal, though - when Birgitte got ripped out of Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod she commented that Gaidal would be an infant or a young boy.  I do not know about Rand balefiring the Dark One - that would undo everything the Dark One did. The world would not have been broken, the Aiel would not have wandered the earth, Rand probably would not have been born...  A lot of paradoxes (I think) if everything the Dark One ever did was wiped out. Rand already has that <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> , though, the huge male <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> from the War of Power.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Elaida&rsquo;s Second Foretelling
body:
<p>Elaida said that Aes Sedai shall walk the grounds of the Black Tower. Asha&rsquo;man have been bonding Aes Sedai thus fulfilling that part of the Foretelling.</p><p>"The Black Tower shall be rent in blood."  Two words: civil war.  If you believe that Taim is Demandred, then lead the Shadow side.  But who will lead the Light side?  Logain has surfaced in the Black Tower and Min saw him with future glory. Rand himself?  Possible, but not likely.  He is too busy with the Seanchan.</p><p>"The Tower shall be whole."  Self explanatory.  The White Tower will be whole once more.  The big question is who will control the tower, the Salidar Aes Sedai or the Tower Aes Sedai.  It all hinges on Gawyn.  Another prophecy by Egwene says that her life depends on his choice.  Obviously, if Gawyn sides with Egwene he brings the Younglings and victory for the Salidar Aes Sedai.  If Gawyn sides with Elaida, Egwene dies and the Tower Aes Sedai win.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have to agree with all that.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: <i>Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod</i>
body:
<p>Whenever Rand fights a Forsaken it almost always seems to happen in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod.  Even in the first book he seems to move away from reality then destroys Ishamael then comes back.  I think the reason why this is because Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod is all the worlds at once and the only way that Rand can win in every world (which is necessary if you listen to Verin Sedai&rsquo;s talk to Egwene on Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod) is in Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod.  I certainly think that Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod will have an important part in the series.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Interesting idea.  Could Rand bump into another version of himself from a different parallel world?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Tower of Ghenjei
body:
<p>I must agree with Whize that the Tower of Ghenjei is the most over looked feature in the book(s).  On the foxey side you make deals, and as Mat said "they cheat."  I also noticed that Robert Jordan likes to put limitations on things and when he does he says so, he did not say what the limits where in Finnland.  So working off this theory and the fact that the snakey side can answer any question (some might cost you your life), we can assume that the foxes can make any deal.  So if you go in there and ask for them to cleanse <i>saidin</i>, what will be there price?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> True, Jordan has not done much with the Tower of Ghenjei to this point.  The foxes curing <i>saidin</i> is possible, but I lean towards the taint being removed when someone takes a hammer to the seals.  Interesting idea, though, that had never really occurred to me.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Hand of the Dark One
body:
<p>While reading The Wheel of Time , I have noticed a connection between the seals breaking and events taking place in Randland.  First, when the first seal breaks, (found by Lan, Perrin, and Mat in the Eye of the World) Aginor and Balthamel (and possibly Lanfear) are released.  Two more seals break in Falme, and afterwards, during the winter that Rand spends in the mountains of mist, the rest of the Forsaken appear and begin attaching themselves to certain nations.  Later, when the seal that Elayne and Nynaeve found breaks, the weather begins to change.  Also, more importantly, Shaidar Haran is introduced as a character.</p><p>I have read a lot of speculation over who Shaidar Haran is, or rather, what he is.  Here is my theory.  As the shield began to weaken, the Dark One was able to partially touch the world to a minor degree, enough to alter the weather.  I also believe that he may have been able to partially escape.  So Shaidar Haran is Shai&rsquo;tan (oh no!  I named the Dark One) himself.  Think about it.  He is described by Demandred as "head and shoulders taller" than most tall men.  Also, while all Myrddraal&rsquo;s names are in the Trolloc tongue, Shaidar Haran means "Hand of the Dark" in the Old Tongue.  There is also the fact that extra space was given to Shaidar Haran as he walked through the tunnel to the Pit of Doom.  Even the heads of the Forsaken brushed the ceiling.  Most importantly, Semirhage recalls the Dark One as saying to her "WHEN YOU OBEY SHAIDAR HARAN, YOU OBEY ME. WHEN YOU DISOBEY SHAIDAR HARAN..."  Semirhage also mentions how rare it is for a Myrddraal to be set above the "Chosen."  She also considers that "Shaidar Haran&rsquo;s existence... remind(s) her that the Great Lord worked in his own ways toward his own goals."</p><p>A list of evidence supporting my theory:<ul><li>Shaidar Haran can "block" people from touching the True Source or even sensing it.</li><li>All Myrddraal's powers "stem from the Dark One."  Shaidar Haran&rsquo;s powers do, but more so.</li><li>He is able to enter and leave vacuoles (the one in which Moghedien was held, as well as the one in which Osan&rsquo;gar and Aran&rsquo;gar first woke).</li><li>Shaidar Haran has a sense of humor. No other Myrddraal does.</li><li>Shaidar Haran can tell the difference between <i>saidin</i> and <i>saidar</i>, while no other Myrddraal can.</li><li>Shaidar Haran destroys a spear with "black flames" from his hand. How many Myrddraal can do that?</li><li>Shaidar Haran cannot stay away from Shayol Ghul for long periods of time.  This could result from him still being partially bound by the seals.</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I cannot recall reading this theory anywhere else...  I like the idea that Shaidar Haran might sort of be the Dark One&rsquo;s current, limited presence in the world.  But did not Shaidar Haran once express regret that he was still bound to Shayol Ghul?  I took the statement to mean that he was unhappy with having to serve a master.  I could be wrong, I cannot remember the exact scene.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Cadsuane&rsquo;s Hair Ornament
body:
<p>On my last spin through <i>The Path of Daggers</i> I noticed something that I found quite interesting.  There is mention of the ornaments in Cadsuane&rsquo;s hair which she is very careful of.  Later on an Aes Sedai (can&rsquo;t remember which one) is channeling around her, and one ornament is cool again her temple.  Could this be something akin to Mat&rsquo;s foxhead?  Something which stops <i>saidar</i> ? Maybe so, maybe not.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> What popped into my head once about Cadsuane&rsquo;s hair ornament is this...  Remember when Elayne was sorting through a pile of junk to find ter&rsquo;angreal and angreal?  One she found was something like Cadsuane&rsquo;s hair ornament, though I cannot recall if it was a ter&rsquo;angreal or an angreal.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Logain to Wield
body:
<p>Morgan Lewis put forward the idea that, seeing as though Logain now has two Aes Sedai Warders, he could safely use (and retain control of) <i>Callandor</i>.</p><p>Here&rsquo;s my thought:  If the Asha&rsquo;man are bonding Aes Sedai, what&rsquo;s to stop Rand bonding Elayne and Aviendha and using <i>Callandor</i> himself?  I might be presuming too much, but it certainly seems like they&rsquo;d let him...  It just appears coincidental that exactly two of Rand&rsquo;s "true loves" are also strong in the Power.</p><p>The one thing stopping this theory is that we don&rsquo;t know yet whether Alanna&rsquo;s bond to Rand will stop him from bonding to others.  However, apparently no man who can channel has been bonded before, so who knows what Rand can and can&rsquo;t do because of Alanna.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think a lot of people think that Rand would give <i>Callandor</i> to Logain as a sign of faith if he kicks Taim out of the Black Tower.  But you are certainly correct - I doubt Elayne and Aviendha would refuse to be bonded by Rand.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Stopping the Taint Temporarily
body:
<p>I&rsquo;d be lying if I said this wasn&rsquo;t to try to get the 100th post but I&rsquo;ve done 3 or 4 already so I deserve it.  :)  Anyway, my theory regards Rand&rsquo;s inability to use <i>saidin</i> because of the taint. We&rsquo;ve only known one way to stop the taint right? Being bonded to the Dark One. I think in order to win Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don Rand is going to have to cleanse <i>saidin</i>. I think to make <i>saidin</i> pure, you&rsquo;d need to use <i>saidin</i> when it is pure. In other words, I think that Rand can cleanse the taint if he can see what it&rsquo;s like untainted. I think he&rsquo;s going to have the biggest gamble of his life and try to trick the Dark One. If he becomes tied to the Dark One ala Asmodean he can use the One Power without the taint. Maybe the secret to cleansing the evil from it is to try from within the evil so to speak. I might be completely wrong but it could happen, especially since Rand can&rsquo;t channel a whisker by himself at the moment. What I&rsquo;m saying overall is that to overcome the taint temporarily, Rand needs to tie himself to the Dark One. It may work because, as we have seen, the Dark One doesn&rsquo;t know everything.</p><p>Another theory I have is about how Faile will free herself and her companions. The Shaido work for Sevanna right? Sevanna serves the Dark One right? So I think the Shaido will deliver Faile and her companions to a Forsaken. My theory is that Faile will dance the sa&rsquo;sara for him. This will convince the Forsaken to free her, though Jordan wouldn&rsquo;t let a Forsaken be so dumb. Maybe it will be a guard or minor King or noble who is holding Faile at the time who will get to see the puppies. ;) I don&rsquo;t think Jordan would have included that she could dance it if it weren&rsquo;t for a reason.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I really like the first theory - it would certainly be a gamble.  But I have two questions...  Would <i>saidin</i> flowing from the Dark One be pure?  Would the Dark One have some kind of control over Rand after he is bonded to him?  As for Sevanna, I do not think she serves the Shadow, I think she is just a bit power-hungry at the moment.  With any luck, Perrin&rsquo;s axe will solve that problem...  Faile&rsquo;s knowledge of the sa&rsquo;sara might come in handy at some point.  Also, you will be happy to know this was in fact the hundredth theory added to the Theory Post.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Why Doesn&rsquo;t the Creator Get Off His Butt And Do Something Already?
body:
<p>Now, if you&rsquo;ll indulge another of my far-out-in-left-field ideas... I think I can explain why the Creator never seems to do anything in the same way the Dark One does. This fact is itself fairly plain - the Dark One is far more active in the struggle than the Creator, who seems content to let His minions trundle around almost blindly and try to get it all done themselves. Why is this, we may ask? Why is there no interdimensional link to wherever the Creator resides, like there is inside Shayol Ghul? Why are there no Lightspawn, so to speak - the Randland equivalent of angels and such? And why is there no evidence of any Lightfriends, per se (Children of the Light notwithstanding - they always seemed more like Shadowspawn to me anyway.) in spite of the fact that they really could help out a lot and the fact that they create a wonderful symmetry when balanced against the Darkfriends?</p><p>Here&rsquo;s my humble answer: because none of it is necessary for the good guys to win. Why? Because, in spite of what he and everyone else seems to think, the Dark One is weaker than the Creator. Sounds absurd, right? Well, I&rsquo;m good at the absurd, but come, let us reason together...</p><p>How can I have reached this conclusion? Because everything in The Wheel of Time mythology points to it, albeit very quietly.<ul><li>The True Power - i.e. what the Dark One gives to his favored lackeys. This has been discussed cogently be others before me in its appropriate section; and I make mention of it here only to cite Mashadarman&rsquo;s point about the Creator&rsquo;s capacity for, well, creation ex nihilo as being the only "True Power," and the "Dark Power," i.e. the True Power according to the Forsaken, being the essence of destruction and death. Mashadarman is right, I think about the Creator&rsquo;s abilities being beyond those of the mere mortals who tap the One Power, which He made, but I think he is mistaken to assert that the Creator&rsquo;s abilities are mirrored by the Dark Power. Why? Because, the capacity to create something from nothing depends on nothing, it needs no outside source of energy or material; but the capacity to destroy depends on something already existing prior to the act of destruction. Thus, since the ability to destroy is relative to and dependent on something else, namely, creation, while creation itself depends on nothing, I think it would be better to regard the Dark Power and the One Power both as two sides of the same, purely natural reality, (like the Light and Dark sides of "the Force"), both of them being transcended by the totally supernatural power of the Creator. This, the necessarily dependent nature of the Dark One&rsquo;s ultimate weapon, is the first sign that he's not as omnipotently evil as he's cracked up to be.</li><li>The Dragon: Some loons, such as Ishamael, seem to think that Rand/Lews Therin/etc. is supposed to go at it primarily with the Dark One&rsquo;s earthly followers, but this seems to directly contradict the whole point of the story. Rand is supposed to fight the Dark One himself, big, bad Shai&rsquo;tan - any lackeys are strictly ancillary. Now, Rand/Lews Therin/the Dragon is immensely powerful, but his power is still finite. Thus, he could not be expected to fight a god of infinite evil power and win, even if he had every male-usable <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> and an&rsquo;greal on the planet, because you will never reach infinity by adding finite sums no matter how hard you try - it just can&rsquo;t happen. Thus, in order for the series to make any sense at all, the Dark One has to have only a finite quantity of power, even if it is far more than even the Dragon when he is unaugmented. Otherwise, Rand&rsquo;s life is a cosmic absurdity, and Robert Jordan has just been stringing us on for years. The Dark One&rsquo;s finitude, and thus inferiority to the Creator, and potentially to others as well, is also hinted at by the fact that Lews Therin and the 100 Companions shut him up for 3000 years in the first place - that simply wouldn&rsquo;t have been possible for a being of infinite power.</li><li>Shayol Ghul: Just how the heck did the Creator manage to wedge the Dark One inside there to begin with, if the Dark One is omnipotent? The answer is, He couldn&rsquo;t have done it at all. Even assuming you can somehow beat an omnipotent being into submission, which is very questionable, you cannot, by definition, keep something that is all powerful restricted by anything external to itself. The very fact that the Creator penned him up in the first place proves the Dark One&rsquo;s inferiority.</li><li>The Dark One&rsquo;s lust for conquest and need for allies: if the Dark One is omnipotent, then he wouldn&rsquo;t need to use anybody to help him get out of his cell; yet, he needed Lanfear (or Mierin, if you prefer) and that other guy to spring him loose. Again, if the Dark One is omnipotent, then what was that whole deal in <i>The Eye of the World</i> about him needing to do use the Eye for something (can&rsquo;t find the page numbers right now...). And so on, with every thing the Dark One does. His every action and his very predicament scream out that he is finite and inferior to the Creator, though very possibly superior to everything else. Thus, I submit that we see no acts of outright divine intervention in Randland because they are not needed; one doesn&rsquo;t kill a fly with a cannon, and one doesn&rsquo;t pit infinite power against finite power, even if it is lots of finite power, when one can put together a band of heroes whose combined powers are sufficient to whoop the enemy. Thus, no one but Masema - I mean, the Prophet of the Lord Dragon - needs to see the Creator&rsquo;s hand behind Rand; natural powers are sufficient to the task.</li></ul></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Just taking over the Theory Post, eh?  I think I agree with pretty much everything here.  It reminds me of Tolkien&rsquo;s mythology when Fingolfin was fighting Morgoth - he stood up to him for a while, but eventually he just could not do it anymore.   If the Dark One is omnipotent, then Rand simply cannot have a chance against him.  Also, you ask why the Creator does not do anything...  I think a great reason comes from Piers Anthony&rsquo;s series (yes I read Piers Anthony once upon a time) about the gods.  Anthony writes that God does not do anything, because it is not really in his nature to "cheat."  Satan (who is lesser than God, being a fallen angel), Anthony portrays as a cheater, willing to do anything to win.  Thank you, Mr. Anthony.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Twice Dawns the Day
body:
<p>I have a theory concerning the "Twice dawns the day" prophecy. I have to relate to our world to explain this. Scientists believe that extinctions on the planet Earth happen periodically (every X million years, I forget the exact number). Anyway, one very far-fetched theory to explain this phenomenon is that the sun is in a binary system. The other star in this system is very small and still in the proto-planetary stage, therefore it has a lot of junk floating around it.</p><p>This star&rsquo;s orbit around the sun is so large that we on Earth do not even know that it orbits the sun. Every X million years the star comes around, rains a bunch of space crud onto the solar system and leaves Earth totally devastated.</p><p>Here is what I propose: In the world of The Wheel of Time their sun also has a binary counterpart that will come around on the day that Rand dies or whatever happens to him after the Last Battle. I don&rsquo;t think it will rain junk on their planet, it will have been through another Breaking and the Last Battle by this time, but the day will have two sunrises and two sunsets if my binary star system theory is true.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Somehow I think this might not be the case...  As I have said on many occasions, anything is possible with Jordan, but this one is way out there.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Nynaeve&rsquo;s Position
body:
<p>My theory is about my favorite character in the series, Nynaeve.  I believe that she will be the one to hold the other huge statue <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> vs. the Dark One during the Last Battle.</p><p>This theory comes from the fact that Min has viewed that Nynaeve will have an important part in the Last Battle, the fact that she is one of the strongest women in the world (using <i>saidar</i>, that is), the fact that Rand could trust her (being from her same village and all), and the fact that no one has prophesied anything about her, other than the fact that she would eventually marry Lan.</p><p>Also, I have a theory that is way, way, WAY out in left field.  It is the fact that Nynaeve may just be the one to revive Rand after "his blood (falls) on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" considering that she is the big Healer lady.</p><p>I just wanna say that this sight is GREAT.  I also suggest that everyone take the time to read JMC's theories.  They are interesting and well researched.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have said it before, and I probably will say it again - you say something nice about the site, your theory gets posted.  Well, not really, but...  In any event, I think Nynaeve would be a good choice to take hold of that second <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>.  But Healing Rand after Tarmon Gai'don would certainly be as important as well...  Nynaeve might very well do one of these things, or both.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Birgitte Will Not Cry For Eternity
body:
<p>This may sound weird but I have been thinking on a theory that maybe Birgitte is still bound to the Wheel.  It is said only the heroes of the Ages are bound to the Wheel.  Well, being Elayne&rsquo;s Warder might not be a super duper hero but she is still a hero.  The Wheel spins out heroes when they are needed, but in her case she was ripped out. That does not mean that she will not be bound to the Wheel again.  People say that "The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills," so maybe she was meant to be ripped out.  They needed her in Randland for some reason yet unknown (maybe she needed to be flesh for Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don) so she was taken out by force by Moghedien.</p><p>Now with Gaidal Cain, she said sometimes that he was old enough to be her father.  What would be wrong if she was old enough to be his mother.  And maybe when they die the Pattern will set right the things that have gone wrong.  I personally know the Pattern and it is not unlike it to do things like that.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> So you know the Pattern?  This theory would lend credence to that claim...  I agree that Birgitte is still bound to the Wheel.  I have trouble thinking that Moghedien could do something to tear Birgitte away from it, in essence breaking the hold of the Wheel on Birgitte.  Who do you think is stronger, Moghedien or the Wheel.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Horn of Valere
body:
<p>What is the Horn of Valere? It was around in the Age of Legends, so we know it&rsquo;s old, but that&rsquo;s about it. It brings back dead people from Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod. Is it some sort of ter&rsquo;angreal? That's what I'm leaning toward.</p><p>Birgitte once mentioned that Moghedien somehow knew what she was (she meaning Birgitte of course). Is it possibly that the people from the Age of Legends could know that heroes reside in the World of Dreams? And is it possible that they somehow could know of a way to pull them out of it? If they did not, someone did, because here we are theorizing about it.</p><p>Well here it is. Of course I have an opinion and of course I&rsquo;ll phrase it as if there is no logical alternative to my theory. Remember when Moghedien threw Birgitte out of Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod in <i>The Fires of Heaven</i>? I think you can see where I&rsquo;m going with this.</p><p>The Horn uses a slightly less harsh weave than Moghedien&rsquo;s to pull the heroes from the World of Dreams. The weave that the Spider used was permanent and the one the Horn uses is temporary. Or does the Horn use the Power?</p><p>Moghedien was an extremely good Dreamwalker, she might have used her ability to manipulate the World of Dreams to send Birgitte (who, it seemed only the Wheel could pull from Tel&rsquo;aran&rsquo;rhiod ) back into the Pattern. The Horn may bend the Pattern around it to touch the World of Dreams and to draw the heroes to fight for whomever blows the Horn. Or possibly the Horn bends <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> to the Pattern. I&rsquo;d just like some other theories concerning the Horn to be posted if anyone has them. If no one does, than I guess I&rsquo;m the only one who likes to explain things that no one cares about.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I bet Mat would love the idea that he was using a ter&rsquo;angreal...  It would make sense to me that the Horn might be a ter&rsquo;angreal.  But that brings up an interesting question - who made it, and why?  The Horn has been around for a LONG time.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Wolfkin
body:
<p>I call them Wolfkin. Mainly because there are probably some women in the world that can talk to wolves too. I&rsquo;d like to try to explain the nature of Wolfkin, or Wolfbrothers if you like, by relating to another fantasy writer's world.</p><p>If you&rsquo;ve read the Ender Quartet by Orson Scott Card you can probably dredge up some memory of Philotic Theory. If not, or if you haven&rsquo;t read the series, here is an exhaustive overview of Philotic Theory:</p><p>Philotes are little itty-bitty sub-atomic particles that make up everything, they are smaller than electrons or quarks or any other sub-atomic particle you can think of. Each philote has a given sort of intelligence. It has definite ability to hold a complex pattern. These philotes that can hold a very large pattern are the ones that inhabit the bodies of human beings. Don&rsquo;t get the wrong impression that philotes are like parasites or something. Philotes are like souls. They control the body. The empirical ego that JMC was talking about can be reduced to a single philote. This single philote has a nearly infinite amount of philotic rays that are connected to other philotes. The complex web of philotic rays that your philote uses to control your body is the sense of awareness that one has of one&rsquo;s body. It can be described as the whole of your soul.</p><p>Anyway all philotes can hold some pattern, even if it is only the pattern of themselves. These "stupid" philotes are used to assemble matter and such, not used as souls. Every philote has that near infinite web of rays that spread from them. These rays are mostly connected to the Earth, that is why you think of it as your home. Others connect to those you love, or places you love, things like that. This connection is what I believe Wolfkin and other wolves use to communicate.</p><p>It is a mutated version of Philotic Theory that the wolves use to talk to one another. The wolves don't necessarily have to love each other, they just connect at will. They also have a sort of control over the mutated philotic rays, they can reach out to other wolves with them as Perrin does in times of need.</p><p>If you&rsquo;re familiar with the Ender Quartet you also know that information can be sent through philotic rays. This is exactly what happens during a "sending" that Perrin experiences while talking with wolves. The keen sense of smell also goes beyond just senses. Philotic rays can be used to sort of smell a person's soul to see what they feel. The information received from these rays is translated into smell. This does not mean that Perrin does not have extremely good smelling abilities, it's just that he only thinks he can smell emotions.</p><p>Okay, recap:  Wolves speak to one another using a temporary philotic connection into the other's souls. Perrin and other wolves also use this ability to temporarily connect to another's soul to "smell" their emotions. It takes me a long time to get to my point.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I have never thought too much about how the wolves connect and communicate with one another.  I do not have much to say on this one except a side note about Card's work - if you have not read the series about Ender (which begins with Ender's Game) go out and read them.  They are extremely good.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Creator and the Dark One&rsquo;s Prison
body:
<p>Anyway, I was pondering about how it was possible for the AOLers (AOL=Age of Legends) to drill the Bore if the Creator made the Dark One's prison. By this point in the series I have determined that the Dark One is not infinitely powerful. The first hint I had of this was when Elaida said that the Dark One's power rested in death and destruction. Since there has to be something there first for that thing to be destroyed, then the Dark One's power is not infinite or his power would rest in creation, which is where the Creator's power lies (duh) therefore he is the infinitely powerful one.</p><p>If the Creator had made the Dark One's original prison, there are two options: The Bore was able to be drilled because the Dark One is so finitely strong that he can actually strain the Creator's infinite powers, this is almost totally impossible. If this is the case, then Rand has no chance in the Last Battle, despite his gigantic <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> thingy. Option two: The Creator is NOT infinitely strong, which is definitely not the case, since Creation ex nihilo is the main idea that is believed by the people in WoT. For this ex nihilo Creation to be possible there has to be an infinitely strong being in the picture; enter the Creator. So, the Dark One's prison could not have been made by the Creator, or the Bore would never have been drilled. If the prison was NOT infinitely strong, but made by the Creator, then the Creator is not infinitely strong which is impossible because he created the universe as the Randlanders (man do I hate THAT term) know it.</p><p>Now, one more thing to clear up. If the Dark One is not infinitely strong, he is an inherent entity to the Pattern. He came with the Wheel and the Pattern and all that stuff. The Wheel and the Pattern are inherently good, therefore there must be a source of evil. Now imagine this gigantically powerful being getting ready to destroy the Pattern that the Creator just made. It is really complicated, so he wants to save it. Enter the Dragon. (Man, have I been waiting to say THAT for a long time!)</p><p>The Creator must maintain his policy of non-intervention, so he creates a finitely powerful being to represent good and sends him down with the purpose of sealing up the Dark One. But, some idiots who have forgotten that the Dark One even exists accidentally drill a big hole in the Dragon's nice Power-wrought prison several thousand years after. The Creator binds the Dragon to the Wheel, so he doesn't have to reincarnate the Dragon every time the Randlanders mess up and set the Dark One free, or at least let him touch the world. Every once in a while the Dragon is spun out, defeats the Dark One, seals him back up so later generations can let him loose again. And the cycle goes on...</p><p>The Dragon's purpose is to fix up the Dark One's prison, or even make a new one every few Ages. The Dragon is the counterpart to the Dark One. This time, the Wheel has wavered too far in its path. It could go either way. This is the LAST Battle. The Dark One sealed up forever, or the Dark One reigning supreme for all of time...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> In general I agree with everything you say here.  In my opinion the Creator is infinitely strong.  The Dark One is not - and it does not matter how much finite power the Dark One has, he can NEVER challenge the Creator.  Take the largest number you can think of - that is a drop in the bucket to infinity.  And all I have to say is - if the last book ends, and the Dark One is not dead for good, I am going to be disappointed.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: <i>Machin Shin</i>
body:
<p>Several threads on the message board have mentioned the connection between the Black Wind of the Ways and the taint on <i>saidin</i>. I think that it requires a much more in depth discussion than the fact that <i>saidin</i> is tainted, and the Ways were made after <i>saidin</i> was tainted.</p><p>They are very much connected, however, just not in the way that I myself thought.</p><p>I was thinking about the nature of the Ways, how they are separated from the Skimming universe, (that's another thing on the message board. We've pretty much decided that the Ways were separated from the place through which you Skim). But I figured that the Skimming universe probably would resist this. I don't really know why, but I always thought of the Skimming dimension/universe/whatever as a very forboding and kind of eager-to-kill-you place. Almost as if it wants you to fall off you platform and consume you. It resisted Rand changing the size of the platform he made for the Aiel. At least it resisted him changing the size of the courtyard. It reflects reality in way similar to <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>, without the stuff actually being there.</p><p>Anyway, I thought that when the male channelers made the Ways, they needed a solution to the Skim-a-verse collapsing in on the Ways. The Aes Sedai made the Ways a sort of <i>Ter'angreal</i> that maintains contact with <i>saidin</i>, like the <i>Ter'angreal</i> cuendillar seals on the Dark One's prison. They placed the weave that separated the Ways from Skim-a-verse and then used something (what that something is, I have yet to figure out, possibly the Guiding Posts) to keep contact with <i>saidin</i> to hold the weave. Tying it off would only be a temporary solution, because eventually the Skim-a-verse would break the weave anyway.</p><p>They didn't count on the taint totally destroying their <i>Ter'angreal</i> like it is doing to the seals. Contact with <i>saidin</i> for 2,000 years would sufficiently corrode the <i>Ter'angreal</i> into nothingness. (Remember that the Ways became tainted during the reign of Hawkwing). Since there were more <i>Ter'angreal</i> in the Ways than were holding the Dark One imprisoned, and they needed more <i>saidin</i> accordingly, they deteriorated faster than the seals.</p><p>Okay back to <i>Machin Shin</i> . When one Skims you kind of bring a piece of reality with you. This pretty much keeps the Skim-a-verse from trying to consume you. If you fall off the platform then you leave that piece of reality and the Skim-a-verse can eat you alive. This is the Black Wind. Every soul that was eaten by the Skim-a-verse now exists as the Black Wind. It has been there ever since people have been falling off the Skimming platform. It couldn't do anything in the Ways until they (the Ways) joined back with the rest of the Skim-a-verse. <i>Machin Shin</i> has a definite mass, so it cannot eat every soul and body that enters the Ways. It also cannot consume the souls of those who Skim because they inadvertently take that piece of reality to protect them.</p><p>Another reason that the Black Wind cannot kill everyone entering the Ways, because it is also trying to escape the Skim-a-verse/Ways. It is trying to escape all the time out of every Waygate. If it concentrated all of its energy and mass into one Waygate, (like it did under Barthane's mansion in <i>The Great Hunt</i>), <i>Machin Shin</i> might escape.</p><p>Granted, it wouldn't last long if it did escape. It is a creature of the Ways and the Skim-a-verse. It wouldn't survive a month if some channelers found out and decided to balefire it. Not one big weave, that would erase it from time totally. That could break the Wheel. Lots and lots of small weaves would destroy the souls that make the Black Wind up.</p><p>One more point. The reason that <i>Machin Shin</i> tries to escape through the Ways, is this: It is the only connection to the real world for them. Lots of souls to eat in the real world. Skimming, as I said before, takes a little piece of reality for protection. That piece stays with the Skimmer until they go out of the Skim-a-verse. There is no way for the Black Wind to escape through humans Skimming. The piece of reality blocks its way. The Ways on the other hand have direct connections to reality through the Waygates. They also have a direct connection with the Skim-a-verse as of a thousand years ago. The Black Wind can't go directly from Skim-ville to reality without some kind of buffer. The Waygate is that buffer. The descriptions of going through the portal indicate this.</p><p>That is the nature of <i>Machin Shin</i>, Skimming, and the universe through which one Skims.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Skim-ville?  Skim-a-verse?  I love when you make up words!  This is way more than I can handle after working on the site for so long yesterday and today.  About the only thing I would like to say is this - I do not think <i>Machin Shin</i> has been trying very long to escape the Ways.  When it tried to get out from the Waygate near Barthanes&rsquo; mansion, Verin thought Loial was making it up.  I believe that is a rather new behavior for the Black Wind.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: New Ter&rsquo;angreal + Male Leash from Tanchico
body:
<p>Excerpts from a conversation with Bayle Domon in <i>The Eye of the World</i>, "Flight down the Arinelle", pp. 355-357...<blockquote>Rand wondered aloud 'It looks like metal.&rsquo;<p>Captain Domon was walking by, and he paused, squinting towards the glint. 'It do be metal,' he said. ... 'A tower of metal. I have seen it close up, and I know. River traders use it as a marker. We be ten days from Whitebridge at the rate we go.'</p><p>'A metal tower?' Rand said...</p><p>The captain nodded. 'Aye. Shining steel, by the look and feel of it, but no a spot of rust. Two hundred feet high, it be, as big around as a house, with no mark on it and never an opening to be found' ...</p></blockquote>This is undoubtedly a reference to the tower of Ghenjei. I'll continue with the quote.<blockquote>...the captain rumbled. 'There be stranger thins in the world than this though. On Tremalking, one of the Sea Folk's isles, there be a stone hand fifty feet high sticking out of a hill, clutching a crystal sphere as big as this vessel...</blockquote>Now we get a reference to the female <i>sa'angreal</i>. Both would seem to be important to the plot. What else does he mention?<blockquote>'In Tanchico... there be a wall there with a frieze showing animals no man living has ever seen.'<p>'Any child can draw an animal nobody's ever seen,' Rand said, and the captain chuckled.</p><p>'Aye, lad, so they can. But can a child make the bones of those animals? In Tanchico they have them, all fastened together like the animal was. They stand in a part of the Panarch's Palace where any can enter and see. The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing's, every one leaving things to see and find. Lightsticks and razorlace and heartstone."</p></blockquote>Hmm. Well we've also seen the Panarch's Palace, lightsticks and heartstone (cuendillar). Don't know about razorlace though. Still, Jordan does seem to be consistently using this stuff later. Now to continue with the excerpt.<blockquote>'A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up.  A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who come within a mile of it, dies. Rusted ruins, and broken bits, and things found on the bottom of the sea..."</blockquote>Now then, I don't recall the crystal lattice or silver spike being mentioned again yet. But I'm looking out for them. Theories anyone? The last line I found particularly amusing though. "Things found on the bottom of the sea." Now, wasn't that where later the same Captain Domon dropped the leash to bind male channelers that the girls found in Tanchico? So if someone found them again it wouldn't be the first time, but then this is presuming an avid collector of rare items, who has already found such lost items, could convince himself to really consign another such treasure to the depths. Or is the comment truly just random?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Personally, I think it may just be something Domon said.  I think that Domon is a trustworthy man, committed to his word.  If he said he was going to drop it in the sea, I believe that he did just that.  You make a good point, though - pretty much everything Domon talked about has played a role in the story later on.  Maybe we will be seeing that bowl with a spike in it at some future point in the story...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Mirror of the Wheel
body:
<p>Looking at the channeling being done by the various Asha'man, we all have seen that something funny is going on with <i>saidin</i>. You'll remember that when males channel, they are having a harder time holding onto it. Rand keeps getting dizzy and weak. Now, think back to the beginning of the series. You'll recall that when Rand used the Portal Stones, he got dizzy, nearly passing out, as I remember it (it has been a while since I last read the earlier books, so excuse my inability to pinpoint exact chapters and/or books). Also, remember that the farther from reality the mirror was, the less real it seemed, thus, the strangeness of the mirror in which the Trollocs had defeated Hawkwing's armies.</p><p>Now, let us look at Nynaeve's test for Accepted in the White Tower. The <i>Ter'angreal</i> with the arches used in the test sends the potential Accepted to an alternate reality, or so it would appear. We also find out that it is dangerous to channel in these alternate realities.</p><p>Now let us move ahead in time to the battle at Dumai's Wells. Rand, weakened and having just been freed from the ministrations of the delegation from the White Tower, opens a gateway to Cairhien. If I am not mistaken, he has trouble opening it. After stepping through the gateway, the forces of good look down on the city from a rise. One of the characters (Rand, I believe), thinks to himself that the city "almost didn't look real." It is soon after this that we first see that <i>saidin</i> isn't behaving as it should.</p><p>Lastly, let us look at the "funny spots" where <i>saidin</i> especially does not want to cooperate. If memory serves, those places have been where major stuff has gone down (recent battlefields, etc.)</p><p>Now, we combine all of that data together to get to the heart of my theory. The world in which Rand lives currently, is NOT the one he was born in! Ever since Dumai's Wells, when he transported a great number of people back to Cairhien, all of those individuals have been in one of the mirrors! It explains why Cairhien looked funny when they looked down on it, it explains why <i>saidin</i> isn't behaving (channeling is dangerous in the other realities, and tapping <i>saidin</i> in a multi-dimensional setting makes the user dizzy, ala the portal stones). The battles happening in this copy of the world aren't happening in the Asha'man&rsquo;s native dimension, thus explaining <i>saidin</i> being extra-nasty in those areas. The Pattern is further altered from their native plane, putting them out-of-sync with <i>saidin</i>. I'm willing to bet that only those at Dumai's Wells have been shown so far to be having trouble channeling. Somehow, Rand jumped realities with that gateway from the Dumai&rsquo;s Wells. How all of this will relate to the final confrontation with the Dark One remains to be seen, though it certainly will come into play at some point, if only to allow Rand lose the Last Battle in this mirror, only to go back and win in his "true" reality, having learned from some mistake made in the "trial run." And, of course, Jordan would not have gone to the trouble of using the Portal Stones in the earlier books if they were not to have a bearing later.</p><p>Maybe you all agree with this, and maybe you will not, but either way I'm satisfied. After all, the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.  :)</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmm...  Interesting, very interesting...  Somehow I have trouble believing that the last few books have taken place in a different reality - Rand would have bumped into his alternate self by this point, right?  As for how it will affect the Last Battle - if any of the Rand&rsquo;s in any dimension loses to the Dark One, the Dark One wins in all dimensions.  So Rand learning from a mistake in one Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, then winning in another, would not really work...  I do not really agree with the theory, but it still would be quite cool if this was the case.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Moridin and Rand
body:
<p>Hi folks ! Here I'm back with a new rambling about two of my favorite characters, Rand and Moridin/Ishamael, and with little thoughts about what could happen at Tarmon Gai'don.</p><p>First of all, I think that in this whole story there are at most four people understanding what happens around them. The first two are pretty obvious: the Creator and the Dark One. Unfortunately, the Creator hasn't said much (only that "only the chosen one can do what must be done, if he wills."), and the plans of the Dark One are a mystery even for his own servants.</p><p>The other two are Shaidar Haran, though to what extent I'm not sure, and, of course, Moridin.</p><p>I could have named Master Fel but he is dead, and maybe Lews Therin. Anyway, the one I want to concentrate one now is Moridin.</p><p>Well, first of all I assume Moridin is Ishamael reborn. He is, or was, Elan Morin Tedronai, the greatest philosopher and theologian of the Age of Legends. I therefore think he really knows much more than anyone else about the Creator and the Dark One. Moreover, he once said to Rand (in <i>The Great Hunt</i>.) he knows all the names he's ever had, not only Lews Therin and Rand al'Thor. How can he? No other Forsaken seems to have memories of his/her past lives! Well, I think Moridin/Ishamael has memories of all his lives since the beginning of the world! Maybe it is a gift from the Dark One, or it has something to do with him being the eternal Nae'blis, one of the two champions of Light and Shadow. Anyway, assuming this is true, we can well think Moridin knows exactly what can happen at Tarmon Gai'don.</p><p>Let me now speak of the viewing Min had of Rand merging with someone else. Rand thought this other man was Lews Therin. But I think this is not the case, since it is not Jordan-like to give an answer so easily, and Rand can't merge with himself. I don't think there are two souls in his body, but that he IS Lews Therin. And I will say what I think of the voices later. So who can this man be?</p><p>Next point. Ishamael has always been very reluctant to kill the Dragon. Even back in the Age of Legends, even after the apparent defeat of the Shadow, in the prologue of <i>The Eye of the World</i>, he should have been furious about what Lews Therin did - but no! He was calm, patient, and while Lews Therin, mad, did not recognize him and could have been balefired without any danger for Ishamael (with a strong balefire - and we all know Ishamael is with Lews Therin the most powerful channeler of all time- it could even have undone the sealing of the Bore and freed the Dark One!), Ishamael healed his enemy and offered him to resurrect Ilyena provided he kneeled before the Shadow. Later he always wants Rand to join him, and even, as the wanderer, saves him in Shadar Logoth. Why? After all, with the Dragon balefired there would be no one to fight the Dark One!</p><p>Of course, Ishamael once tried to destroy Rand, in Tear, but I think it was for fear of being destroyed (and not only killed) himself. Still another point. What does Ishamael want? And, more importantly, this man who named himself Ba'alzamon and took pleasure in being mistaken for the Dark One - will he just submit to the Dark One in the end? I think not. Lanfear spoke of using the two huge <i>sa'angreal</i> to overpower the Creator and the Dark One. Maybe Moridin has the same goal! But, will you say, where will he find a woman he can trust to pair with him? Such a man will never trust anyone! True, but he has the mindtraps! Surely Moghedien's and maybe Cyndane/Lanfear's as well...</p><p>Moreover, remember his playing sha'rah, claiming it is hard to lose when you play both sides. What are the two sides? First, I thought Light and Shadow, and Moridin plays the Light since he controls Rand. But no! Rand is not one of the players, he is a piece of the game, the Fisher. Therefore I think the two said sides are Moridin vs. the Dark One! And anyway he wins, since if he wins this game he becomes the almighty evil master of the universe, and if the Dark One wins he is still Nae'blis, number two to the now almighty evil master of the universe!</p><p>Now, if I am right, why would the Dark One leave him free to act? Well, possibly the Dark One isn't really aware of that, or more likely he is using Moridin for the time being, like he was using Lanfear even knowing her secret goal. Or he simply needs Moridin to get rid of the menace of the Dragon, planning to destroy him after. A duel Moridin/Shaidar Haran would then be quite something...</p><p>Okay, if you've had the patience to read up to here you may ask where all this leads us. Here it comes!</p><p>I think in the end Moridin plans to merge with Rand, like Mordeth and Fain or Luc and Isam, taking for granted that his personality will take over the new being. Maybe he will have Rand agree to it. The way I see this is: he is only known to Rand as "the wanderer" - a mystery but as far an ally. Rand will go to Shayol Ghul one way or another, face Shaidar Haran and destroy him with the help of Moridin. Then, Moridin will ask Rand to merge with him in order to be strong enough to fight the Dark One. Possibly at that time Rand will be overwhelmed by grief (death of friends in the battle) and culpability (memories of Ilyena, all the dead maidens) and he might accept to escape this moral suffering, all the more so as he is prepared to die and he still thinks Moridin is his ally. But somehow Rand will discover who Moridin is and fight with him to control what they have become. Maybe the Dark One will then try to destroy them both while they are fighting with each other. He will fortunately fail, Rand will take over Moridin, (I think with the help of his friends) and destroy the Dark One. Another possibility would be that Rand manages to kill himself (and Moridin at the same time) after having destroyed the Dark One with Moridin. Here comes the 'if he wills' of the Creator, since Rand will have to choose between a peaceful oblivion submitted to Moridin or the death of them both that might end bringing battle and suffering over and over (Then, maybe the two huge <i>sa'angreal</i> will have been destroyed in the fight with the Dark One and with Rand and Moridin dead, no one will remain capable of killing Fain who will be trapped in the Bore and, while there, gain new powers until he reappears in the next Age of Legends as the new Dark One.). Since I'm here, some other few things.</p><p>About the voices, which according to Cadsuane are heard by all male channelers because of the madness. I agree with all those who think the taint is the True Power, and of course something coming from the Dark One. Maybe the Dark One somehow controls it, and then these voices would be his under various disguises, possibly of people the male channelers would trust. But, will you say, the voice of Lews Therin has not made him do anything evil. Right, but the Dark One may simply be keeping him alive, helping him through this voice, because he needs him (or why would he have told Demandred not to kill him?), maybe to take the control of his soul, which he would need to incarnate himself in the pattern.</p><p>Finished at last!</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I am out of breath, and all I had to do was read this theory...  Quite a bit of wandering in there...  I like the idea of Moridin hoping to overthrow the Dark One and set himself up as the next Great Lord of the Dark.  In general, though, this is just not how I see things happening - mainly because I think it is Logain that Rand will merge with, but that is just my personal opinion.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Berelain and the Man in White
body:
<p>Okay, I just came up with this theory when I was reading the message board and someone mentioned Berelain and her man in white. Did it ever occur to anyone that the man in white perhaps could be a gai'shain? I mean, they wear white all the time. What would happen, for instance, if Rhuarc would be taken in battle by another Aiel? He would have to wear white. Then Berelain and himself could fall in love and fulfill whoever predicted this would happen. Ironically, wasn't it Amys who said that the Aiel liked Berelain because she had spirit or something like that. Then Rhuarc would have not one, not two, but three wives. Lucky dog! I believe that the answer to this question is right under out noses. I have never heard anyone even suggest this, I wonder why? Perhaps it is because we want to believe that Robert Jordan will surprise us with something off the wall? This one to me is obviously not off the wall.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It is possible that Rhuarc might be Berelain&rsquo;s man in white - they certainly seem to get along well together.  Rhuarc seems to be busy enough with his two wives, though, I do not know how he could manage all three...  Personally, I would be more inclined to think that Galad will be Berelain&rsquo;s man in white.  They have not met yet, though, so it is tough to say how well they will get along and stuff.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Lews Therin Helping Out
body:
<p>Just a thought, and definitely one from somewhere in the vicinity of left field...</p><p>Let us assume that Lews Therin's voice is indeed that of a separate entity, rather than just a manifestation of the taint. Hence, Lews Therin's mind is almost certainly being affected further by the taint, as is Rand's. So surely the effect of the taint, being spread between two minds, is half as strong on Rand as on another <i>saidin</i> user?</p><p>Hence, the presence of Lews Therin absorbs some of the taint... perhaps even more than half due to Lews Therin having vastly more experience of <i>saidin</i> than Rand.</p><p>This almost guarantees that Rand will keep his sanity for as long as he needs to. Especially if (although I doubt it) Alanna is also absorbing some.</p><p>Let us now further assume that the widely-held theory is true, that breaking the seals will release the past souls from their current bodies. Hence, if Rand can keep at least one of his remaining three seals from breaking before Tarmon Gai'don, then he will be sane enough to fight the Dark One, he will have had as much guidance and advice from Lews Therin as is possible, and Lews Therin's soul will at last be freed. Sounds to me like wrapping up the series nicely.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I cannot recall having heard anything of this nature before...  And it kind of makes sense, in an odd sort of way...  I do not know whether or not the taint is spread between Rand and Lews Therin, but it is certainly an interesting possibility.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Cold War of Power
body:
<p>Although I agree that Taim is not Demandred, let's just assume for a moment that he is.</p><p>If this is true, then Demandred appears to have control over pretty mush all the male channelers around, and if Osan'gar (Aginor) is also involved, then we can assume that the Forsaken currently have a large degree of control over all male channelers except Rand.</p><p>In the White Tower, Elaida is quite obviously under Alviarin's control, and Alviarin is of course entirely subservient to Mesaana.</p><p>In Salidar, or the Little Tower, or any such name one wishes to give it, Egwene is having her headaches more and more, and the only one able to help seems to be Halima Saranov, hence Aran'gar, hence Balthamel. Presumably, for a Chosen, it'd be fairly easy to induce the pain or even use Compulsion, such that Egwene becomes more and more dependent on Balthamel. We can surmise that the headaches are in fact caused by Balthamel, since they didn't start until Logain - the only one able to notice Balthamel channeling - had skipped town. As a result, this could eventually lead to Balthamel having a lot of control with the rebel Aes Sedai.</p><p>Assuming all of the above, the Chosen are in a position to exert their control over practically every channeler in the main continent (I refuse to call it by the R-word). And the only ones who are in any position to make a difference to any of this are Rand and Logain... Sounds like a good premise on which to build a ninth book. Opinions, anyone?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is very true, the Forsaken do seem to have a lot of influence on most of the channelers in Randland.  I see a couple possible outcomes - for one, a couple of these individuals might be discovered (the hunt in the White Tower using the Oath Rod comes to mind quickly).  Second, they might continue to control these channelers until Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, when the Seal Folk and Wise Ones will have to confront the Aes Sedai and Asha&rsquo;man who have spent a great deal of time being (secretly) led by the Forsaken.  Third...  Well, I guess I can only think of two options at the moment, so I will just stop rambling now...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Dark One's Prison Was NOT Made By the Creator
body:
<p>I know what you're thinking, I'm a jackass, but just wait until I'm done. As you might know from the message board, I am very partial to the theory that the Dark One was once a regular man, just like any other. For some reason, he was very evil, so evil to the point he convinced others to follow him in his evilness and tried to take over the world (no, his name was not Brain and he didn't have a friend named Pinky).</p><p>Something had to be done to stop this evil, evil man, and so the Creator sent in His "Chosen One." But that's the extent of the Creator's involvement in the matter. After all, why would He intervene and stop a mortal? That's the job for another mortal, Rand/Lews Therin.</p><p>After a gruesome battle, our hero prevailed and sealed the bad guy in a prison outside of time. It was so perfect, everybody thought he would never be able to get out.</p><p>With the bad guy out of the picture, our Hero was loved and adored by the whole world, and he became a legend. "Legends fade to myth," and with the passing of time, our hero was progressively transformed from hero, to a god-like entity. "Even myth is long forgotten" and after some time, nobody remembered our hero, but they knew someone had imprisoned the Dark One, and they thought that someone was the Creator.</p><p>Okay, now you're thinking "People wouldn't mix-up the Creator with someone else that easily." Oh no? Remember a fella named Ba'alzamon? Didn't everybody think he was the Big Cahuna, Shai'tan? Yes, but everybody was wrong, because Ba'alzamon was none other than our friend Ishamael. And that confusion only took about 3000 years to happen. Imagine what people can think after say, 5000-7000 years...</p><p>Okay, back to my theory. Oh yeah, how did a mere mortal all of the sudden became immortal? Did I mention he was imprisoned OUTSIDE of time?</p><p>So there it is, my theory of how the Dark One was once a man and that his prison was made by another man. I know it will be heavily criticized, but hey, I'll live.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I like to think that maybe the Dark One was at one point a mortal...  And perhaps it is a different mortal with every turning of the Wheel?  I think Fain would be a good candidate as a Dark One of the future...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Song of the Tinkers
body:
<p>The song that the Tinkers are looking for would have to be the ancient song of the Da'shain Aiel. It's said that during the Age of Legends the Ogier, Nym (the Green Man's species), and the Da'shain Aiel (Tinkers/Aiel) used to use songs to aid the growth of plants in the Age of Legends. The song wouldn't have anything to do with the One Power - it would be something similar to the Ogier Treesinging.</p><p>Maybe this song could be used to clean the Ways? After all, the Ways are living things and the Ogier "sing" new Waygates.  Maybe if the Ogier and Tinkers work together (too bad the last Nym died in the first book) they can cleanse the Ways of <i>Machin Shin</i>.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think it is a pretty reasonable guess the song the Tinkers are looking for is that song from the Age of Legends.  Using it to clean the Ways is an interesting possibility.  I hope Jordan goes far enough after Tarmon Gai'don to see things like that resolved.  Of course, if he does resolve everything, what would we argue about after the series is over?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Was the Dark One a Mortal?
body:
<p>To reply to Asha'man Joe's theory, I completely agree with the fact that the Dark One was once a mortal (and I think Fain will be the next one, of course...), but I had never thought about what made him immortal.</p><p>Well, I think it is somehow the tremendous hatred of the world he has (which seemed to work for Mordeith), but I don't think he is outside of Time. As someone said in a post about Moridin, the Dark One resents his not being able to step outside of Time to touch Rahvin after he was balefired. Moreover, given the influence of the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant on the series, we can reasonably assume that being freed from Time is the goal of the Dark One: remember in The Eye Of The World Ba'alzamon claming he would kill the Great Serpent, which is the symbol of Time.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> These are some good points.  I do not know whether I buy into the theory that the Dark One was once mortal, but I certainly think it is an interesting angle.  I had never really thought of the influence of the Covenant books on WoT, but now that you mention it I can see a few parallels.  Nice work!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Thom Cannot Channel
body:
<p>It has been suggested that Thom will turn out to be able to channel.  I don't think so.  Males who can channel (as well as girls) manifest this ability no later than the early twenties, according to the Big White Book of WoT.  Thom is how old?  In his fifties?  I think that if he could channel, he would know by now.  And if he could channel, then he would have whooped that Myrddraal's butt in <i>The Eye of the World</i>, instead of being crippled.  As Lan said in the same book, only the weakest Aes Sedai would fail to be a match for a Fade.  So there.  That's my two cents.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I believe Jordan has actually stated that Thom definitely cannot channel, probably because he has been asked that question so many times at book signings and such.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: The Man Collar
body:
<p>Remember in <i>The Shadow Rising</i> when Nynaeve, Elayne and the others were in Tanchico, they found a man collar or black collar. Nynaeve said to Domon (captain on the Spray) to drop the collar in the Aryth Ocean. But do we really know if he did it? I am not so sure he got the chance. The collar would be of great interest of many people - the Black Ajah for instance. I think somebody took it from him, probably a Darkfriend or a Forsaken.  Remember Sevanna, the clan chief of the Shaido clan. When Rand was a prisoner she wanted to use a collar to control him. She got the collar from a wetlander, probably Sammael (or Caddar as she knew him). Maybe it's the same collar which Nynaeve found in Tanchico.</p><p>However, I don't think the collar will be used on Rand to control him.  After reading <i>The Path of Daggers</i> I now think I know how it will be used. It will be used for <i>Callandor</i>.</p><p>For many the idea might seem crazy, but hear me out. To use <i>Callandor</i> so you'll not get killed, a man using the Power needs to be linked with to Aes Sedai and one of them has to control the flows. Do you remember how the collar looks like? It's like an <i>a'dam</i>, but with two bracelets which means two can control.</p><p>So what I'm getting out of it is simple. The way the Aes Sedai will control the flows is not possible unless you use the collar (we all know the use of <i>saidin</i> can't be compared to <i>saidar</i>). This means the collar will be used to use <i>Callandor</i> in the only safe way.</p><p>I have several candidates to whom will use the collar and <i>Callandor</i>. The Asha'man, Taim, Logain, and Rand. Logain will for many people be the one, but I don't think so. He bonded the Aes Sedai against there will, and having the collar on you, the Aes Sedai will control him, so unless he trusts the Aes Sedai to let him free once they're finished (which I don't think he does), he will not be the one. And somehow I can't see Taim nor the Asha'man trusting Aes Sedai. We now have only Rand. I don't think he'll trust Alanna. But what about Elayne and Aviendha?  He loves both of them, and they love him. They are the only women who can channel who Rand trusts. So it is simple. The collar Nynaeve found in Tanchico will somehow be used by Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha to use <i>Callandor</i>.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Everyone knows how I hate to disagree, but...  Women can control the flows in a link without the collar - in fact, in a circle of two women and one man a woman would lead the flows.  I hardly think the black collar will be necessary to control <i>Callandor</i> - Logain&rsquo;s two pet Aes Sedai should be more than enough.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: <i>Saidin Ter&rsquo;angreal</i>
body:
<p>Here is a theory of mine that I have not seen around anywhere, perhaps because it is so obvious that nobody bothers!  Anyway...</p><p>I suppose <i>Ter'angreal</i> to be used by men were common in the Age of Legends, but most have been lost or destroyed since then, and are now quite rare.  I wonder what became of Rand's little man with a sword - probably picked up by either Taim or Dashiva after Dumai&rsquo;s Wells.</p><p>With some help Nynaeve and Elayne found the Bowl of the Winds in Ebou Dar, and together with the Bowl a room full of all sorts of strange things. They brought with them all they could carry, and on the way to Caemlyn they started to check the different items, using the One Power to find the <i>Ter'angreal</i>. When they didn't feel any response, the "rubbish" was just discarded along the road. In my opinion those two girls are simply too stupid to know how ignorant they are! (And that goes for more than <i>Ter'angreal</i>!)</p><p>Remember Sammael searching for "a treasure" in Ebou Dar? Something so important that he could not let Jaichim Carridin waste time and energy to find Mat? Sammael discussed this with Graendal earlier (when she visited him in Illian), and told her there would be something there for both of them - <i>Ter'angreal</i> to be used by <i>saidar</i> and by <i>saidin</i> . The "rubbish" that Elayne and Nynaeve discarded so easily are <i>Ter'angreal</i> to be used by men!  Elayne is very clever at making <i>Ter'angreal</i> when she has something to copy, but she does not realize the limits of her knowledge and she has all the self confidence of the ignorant.</p><p>There is a Darkfriend among the women going to Caemlyn. I believe the Darkfriend is Vandene, and that she killed her sister Adeleas. Vandene grieved for her sister, and I believe that was a genuine feeling, but nonetheless I am convinced that she killed her. Vandene is a Green, but for many years she has lived and studied with her Brown sister Adeleas. Moiraine visited the two sisters to ask for information, and at that time Vandene herself admitted she might have chosen Brown. During that visit a Draghkar suddenly appeared, and Moiraine was nearly killed. Somebody must have called the Draghkar, or rather its master. I just don't believe a Warder can be a Darkfriend without his Aes Sedai knowing it, and Adeleas was murdered, so that leaves us with Vandene.</p><p>Vandene is a scholar, and it is quite likely that she recognizes the <i>Ter'angreal</i> for what they are. They are of course useless to her, as she herself can only channel <i>saidar</i> . But what is to stop her from rescuing at least some of the smaller items? And what will she do with them, who will she give them to?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not doubt that Elayne is throwing some male ter&rsquo;angreal and angreal in the trash as they move toward Caemlyn.  The idea of Vandene killing Adeleas never really occurred to me, and is certainly an interesting possibility.  I do not believe that any Darkfriend traveling in their little group is trying to save male angreal or ter&rsquo;angreal - most of those odds and ends really are trash.  Even an educated woman would have no good way to recognize the male angreal in that trash.  But you sure are right about Elayne and Nynaeve being a little slow at times...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Padan Fain and Gollum
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<p>We all have come to know and love Padan Fain, peddler and the essence of evil incarnated. The question is, what does Jordan intend to do with him?</p><p>Personally, I feel that Fain will accompany us to the end and the Last Battle.  The reason for this assumption lies in another classic fantasy series, The Lord of the Rings by Tolkien. Whoever has read it cannot overlook the similarities between Padan Fain and Gollum, that almost compel them to follow parallel courses . Whereas I do not believe that Jordan lacks original ideas (on the contrary), I feel that given the formation of the peddler's character and his obsession about Rand, he cannot but show up during the Last Battle and perhaps tip the scales, just like  Gollum in The Lord of the Rings.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not think anyone could deny that Jordan has pulled a number of ideas from Tolkien, and I think the Fain/Gollum similarities are pretty clear.  It will be interesting to see what exactly ends up happening with Fain as Tarmon Gai'don unfolds...  Will he tip in the scales in favor of the Dark One?  Will he accidentally help Rand (like Gollum helped Frodo)?  Or will he end up as a new Dark one?  Or something else entirely?  I am looking forward to seeing how that turns out, even if I think it will take Jordan another Age to finish this series...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Our World
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<p>I have one problem with the theory of the series ending, the One Power being eliminated, and the world becoming like ours.  The reason is this - at the start of every book, Jordan makes a poetic point of legends fading to myth as Ages continue.  My interpretation is that each Age ends with a cataclysmic event or a complete upheaval of the current culture in that Age.  Further, in the Age when a particular event happens, it is a memory, in the next Age it is a legend, and in the next Age it is a myth.  Theoretically, all should be forgotten of that specific event, three Ages after it happened.  Maybe the Creator made seven Ages so there is still a four Age buffer to ensure that no one can possibly remember what happened the previous time a specific Age was born.  The "cataclysmic event" is a further safety mechanism to ensure all records are eventually destroyed.  Now my theory is, that in the Age of Legends, the dragon was a myth.  This fits well because the general reaction to a dragon is one of awe and fear driven respect: a perfect name for the man who saves, and breaks the world (Lews Therin).  Now in real Earth, we have a legend of a dragon from yesteryear.  My theory is that the Age of Legends is the Age after the one we are in now.  They had pollution free cars, ways of making energy (the One Power) and very quick ways of transporting themselves and object;  All are solutions to problems we face now.  So I think that the Fourth Age will not be one such as our current world but one completely different...  That doesn't mean the One Power won't be eliminated (I like that theory) but it will not be similar to our world.  Further evidence for this theory is that no one in the Third Age realizes what the heck a dragon is, showing how myth has faded.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I tend to look at the Age of Legends as a sort of alternative to our current world.  What if the One Power had been discovered back around the 1500's?  Then instead of science-driven advances in medicine and technology we would have One Power-driven advances in those fields.  Obviously some things from our world existed during the Age of Legends (there's that item which sounds suspiciously like a Mercedes hood ornament in a museum, for instance).  It is entirely possible that during some Age the art of channeling will be lost.  But I have a hard time picturing it as immediately after Tarmon Gai'don, and then that whole Rand/Elayne/Aviendha/Min aging thing which really bugs me comes into play...  In any event, good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Tremalking, the Amayar, and the Hand
body:
<p>We haven&rsquo;t much stuff for theories here yet, but I will try. I suppose that the hand is the female <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i>. We know that the Amayar have some prophecies connected to the hand. Then it should be pretty apparent that this <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> will be used. But when, and how?</p><p>"The Amayar had their own prophecies, and some of them spoke of the hand and the sphere. And the end of illusion." (<i>The Path of Daggers</i>; "To Keep the Bargain")</p><p>What does this mean? The <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> will be used. The bit about end of illusion could be a sign that the Amayar will be destroyed. But will some be saved? What about the Amayar on other islands? Both this chapter and the Guide state that the Amayar believe that this world is a mirrored reflection of belief, a way post on the path to another existence. Every prophecy we knows tells about destruction and salvation. Where is the salvation in the Amayar&rsquo;s prophecies? I suppose we will hear more about it later.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Not too much attention has been paid to the Amayar to this point in the book.  I think it very unlikely Jordan put one of the two huge <i>sa&rsquo;angreal</i> on one of their islands, only to completely ignore them in the story.  I am sure how exactly the Amayar&rsquo;s prophecy about the end of illusion will come into play, but my guess is we will probably find out right around the time Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don rolls around...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Bowl of the Winds = Asha&rsquo;man Sickness
body:
<p>The Bowl of the Winds is causing the Asha'man to become ill. Unlike several other theories about the sickness being related to another dimension, I think that the Bowl of the Winds is the cause for the nausea/double vision the Asha'man are experiencing, using evidence gleaned from recent passages. The evidence is simple: when the women were channeling into the Bowl, they were each horrified to some degree or another when they realized that their flows were twisting around unseen flows (<i>saidin</i>). Now, we know that <i>Callandor</i> can only be used safely with two Aes Sedai controlling a link with a man, why can it not be the case with a <i>Ter'angreal</i>? I think that the only way to safely control the Bowl of the Winds is with at least one man in the link. Why wasn't that mentioned to them? Even Cadsuane had to do a lot of research to learn that <i>Callandor</i> is not a safe <i>sa'angreal</i> to use alone, it is highly likely that the person who informed them about what they do happen to know about the Bowl, did not know this little tidbit.</p><p>This could explain several things. First of all, yes it is winter time, but it is brutal. I recall Bashere mentioning that the weather was way too cold (while nowhere near as cold as a Saldaean spring) and he says that he must be getting soft. I don't think so, I think that the women called down a particularly harsh winter on the world, and it's going to remain harsh until Rand or another male channeler rectifies the situation. This could also explain the title of the upcoming Winter's Heart. It would explain the nausea and double vision as well as the fear the <i>damane</i> have of channeling near Ebou Dar, as the channeling was not properly controlled. The Asha'man with Perrin mentioned the fact that it felt like there were bits of the power around them or some such thing after they saw the flows from the bowl streak across the sky. As people who can channel get nearer The Farm, the nausea gets worse. The Farm (or on the hill if you insist) is where the Bowl was used. Because the Bowl had uncontrolled <i>saidin</i> being used, it spread little bits of <i>saidin</i> all over the world, mostly concentrated at The Farm. These bits of <i>saidin</i> interfere with everyone's channeling the nearer they are to Ebou Dar. Now, there are holes in the theory, and I would love for someone to prove me wrong, as the thing I want most resolved is this sickness, just to get it out of the way. Oh yeah, and there was no mention of the nausea before the Bowl was used (I hope or my entire argument is very, very wrong). Now, other things it could be: a result of Elayne's "weapon" as she lost control and effectively saved the lives of a ton of channeling women, one of the Chosen being a very unkind individual. Oooh, I just thought of this, maybe it's the taint from the little bits of <i>saidin</i> that are floating around that's messing everyone up. Otherwise the male Chosen would also have trouble channeling. Hmm....  Well, it could be just about anything I suppose, so that's my idea, take it or leave it.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I think it is a pretty reasonable assumption that whatever is messing up the channelers around Ebou Dar has something to do with either the Bowl or Elayne&rsquo;s little mishap.  It is tough to say which one, exactly, because they happened at about the same time.  Perhaps in Winter&rsquo;s Heart we will learn a bit more about the nature of this sickness - and that might clear up what exactly caused the problem in the first place.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Adeleas Vandene Mystery
body:
<p>This is something I thought of while reading <i>A Crown Of Swords</i>, not <i>The Path of Daggers</i>. It is interesting to note how Jordan illustrates the reactions of the two sisters to various things in this book. It was while reading <i>A Crown Of Swords</i> that this thought hit me. Vandene killed Adeleas. Well, big deal. Nothing new there. True. What is new is not the suspect, but the motive. Vandene killed Adeleas but is not Black Ajah. Adeleas was Black Ajah. Vandene probably suspected for years, but something came out in those closed talks with Ispan. Vandene probably denied it as much she could, but when she could deny it no longer she did what she had to. This explains the crimsonthorn. Vandene could not use the Power on Adeleas because of the Three Oaths (which still hold her because she is not Black Ajah). Jaem killed Ispan with the stake - he is strong enough. Back to Adeleas' death, the crimsonthorn was painless. Of course Vandene still loves her sister, so she made the death as soft as possible. The cry of anguish that she let out when the murder was discovered was real. The reason she didn't tell anyone was to preserve her sister's memory (or something like that). I really suggest reading scenes in the <i>A Crown Of Swords</i> with Adeleas in them. She seems awfully, how should I say it, confident, in situations where others aren't - confident in the same manner as other Black sisters.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Now this is certainly an interesting twist on things. I definitely plan on reading the series again before <i>Winter's Heart</i> comes out, and the next time through I will have to keep my eyes on Adeleas and Vandene.  Good theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: A Case for Faile's Death
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<p>Faile says to Perrin, "Should I die, you shall mourn for a decent period, then find a new wife, someone I would approve of or my soul shall haunt yours." Later in <i>The Path of Daggers</i> she admits, albeit grudgingly, that should Berelain put aside her trying to win Perrin she might actually like her. When Elayne and Nynaeve were on their way to apologize to Matrim, Elayne said "you should be wearing white, you look like you are going to a funeral." Nynaeve agreed. Should Faile die Perrin would wear white at her funeral and maybe for a mourning period after. Is Perrin Berelain's "Man in White." It's an interesting twist, unlike Galad, and would shock readers.</p><p>Egwene's dreams say Aram is going to influence Perrin in a bad way. This may be to save Faile no matter the cost in life or it may be a blood-thirsty revenge against the Shaido.</p><p>Min says "Berelain will fall head over heels for a man in white." Not that he loves her. Does this mean she will see a man in white and fall instantly in love? Or will she fall for a man who may at sometime take to wearing white?</p><p>Galad. The Whitecloaks are closing in on Perrin and the Prophet. The chances of him meeting Berelain on the battlefield are pretty slim. The <i>Winter's Heart</i> cover and bogus back cover suggest Berelain escaped straight to Perrin and didn't run into any Whitecloaks who would be traveling in one big army to take on the Prophet.</p><p>The only problem is Min's "Broken Crown" vision in <i>The Eye of the World</i>. Be it the Saldaean Crown or Bashere Land it would not go to Faile's widower but to her younger brother. I think it is Family Land as when Perrin asked Faile about the Broken Crown she smelled wary and upset and changed the subject. Why? What's the big secret? Perrin knows she is third in line for the Saldaean crown. The only possibility would be if Perrin became King of Ghealdan and includes the Two Rivers and Baerlon (sorry Elayne) and the family land is above Baerlon or that this was part of Manetheren land (i.e. Broken Crown). Davram Bashere may give this to the new King of Manetheren. When Perrin mentioned his concern that the Ghealdans may believe Rand is setting up Perrin as King of Manetheren, Faile smelled wary and changed the subject. I think no matter what happens to Faile she has ambitions for Perrin to be the King of the New Manetheren.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> First, I think this is a pretty interesting theory, and I am sure there are plenty of people out there (everyone who does not like Faile) who would be happy to see this happen.  It would certainly put a different twist on things.  And if Jordan kills off Faile, at least he will have finally killed someone we have seen for a while.  The only other good guy who has died so far that I can recall (off the top of my head) is Ingtar.  But what is Bashere Land or Family Land?  I got a little confused during that last paragraph...  <img src="images/oh.gif" /> In any event, I can certainly see Perrin and Berelain ending up as King and Queen of a new Manetheren, and I think that would be a cool twist to the plot.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Rand Will Not Lose a Hand, He'll Lose THE Hand
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<p>What is the Dragon Reborn if he can't wield the sword properly anymore? He's going to turn into one really pathetic figure if he is with only one hand, and I don't think Jordan is planning to do that to him. Thing is, this prophecy doesn't say anything specific, just that Rand will lose a hand. What hand? Poker? He's no gambler, Mat is.</p><p>I don't think Rand will lose any hand, he'll lose the support Mat's "Band of the Red Hand." It's stated on numerous occasions that the Band only follows Mat because of his luck (he always wins) and his fighting skills. But where is Mat? They don't know where he is, and it is fairly obvious that they are not comfortable taking orders from anyone else, no matter how great a leader (Bryne). All the tensions in Egwene's army are because of the Band, Bryne can't control them, and the hard core Aes Sedai think Egwene shouldn't mess with Dragonsworn fanatics. And they are becoming more and more nervous without Mat on their side. I can hardly imagine what is going to happen in front of Tar Valon. I think most of Mat's people are going to die in the battle, because their faith in success will be gone, with Mat absent. And Mat is truly gone, that Seanchan princess will never let him go, once she's laid her hands (claws, grrrr) on him. Poor Mat. Fact is, without Mat the Band is doomed, and so is Rand's ever-successful hit squad. And if he's lucky enough the real hand is gonna stay. For now.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, it is not that the Band is not comfortable taking orders from Bryne - to the best of my knowledge he has never tried to give them orders.  I have a hard time seeing Mat losing his position with the Band (or the Band kind of dissolving), but I also have trouble imagining Rand losing one of his hands...  Perhaps we will see in <i>Winter's Heart</i>...<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Asha'man Galadedrid Damodred
body:
<p>We all know Galad to be the "Lancelot" of the Wheel of Time universe. We know he is pretty obsessed with obeying the law and behaving in a strict ethical fashion, and more importantly we know he is the only living blood of the Dragon Reborn. Luc I won't include because we don't know if he is even still "alive."</p><p>Rand must know these things as well, and he certainly knows that he has a brother out in the world.  But apart from their one brief encounter at the beginning of the series, Rand has never once so much as mentioned his brother's name! Some people might say this shows how cold Rand has become, but I have never agreed with that kind of thinking.  Rand is as callused as anyone else would be if they had to endure the kind of trauma he endures, and when he does begin to lose his head its for reasons that are pretty understandable - like being tortured. For me Rand's silence on this subject says that he would desperately like to get to know his brother but is afraid of endangering him, and afraid that Galad will blame him for Morgase's "death" as Gawyn does.</p><p>All this is well and good but what does it have to do with the Asha'man you ask? Here is my theory.</p><p>My first piece of evidence is the translation of the word "Asha'man" - it means "guardian" but only a guardian who would fight for a just cause and who would value the truth highly. This description can be tied to Galad quite easily. The Asha'man we have seen so far are a controversial group more influenced by Taim than Rand. Personally, I like to hope that their attitudes are mainly a result of this influence and that the future Asha'man will be greatly altered. It must be noted that whatever the training regimen they endure and the horrible fate they must face, they still fight for the cause of Light .Any male channeler who would do this in a world that despises male channelers the way this one does is deserving of the benefit of the doubt in my opinion. Perhaps the do it partially out of an obsessive desire to do "the right thing" in order to cancel out the imaginary crime they committed - being born with their abilities. Galad would fit in well with this brotherhood.</p><p>Secondly,we know from the Two Rivers girls (And maybe boys... Remember Taim's blackberry bush?) that blood plays at least some part in inheriting the ability to channel. As such it is not at all unlikely that a man whose sister is one of the strongest Aes Sedai and whose half-brother is the most powerful channeler the Age has ever seen would also be shown to have the ability, if he chose to take the test. But why would he want to risk the Asha'man's fate? Well what better way could there be to have a positive influence on the world than by helping to teach a newly founded order of male channelers to behave in a just and ethical way? After all, we know he joined the Children of the Light because he felt that the Aes Sedai were too corrupt in their beliefs and actions and it is easy to imagine him leaving the Whitecloaks for the same reasons. Or perhaps he will encounter Lini or Breane if and when Perrin confronts the Children again... And learn of the way Eamon Valda treated Morgase,that would be nice to see.</p><p>And thirdly, my favorite piece of evidence on this theory has been available right from the start of Jordan's masterpiece. The personal sigil of Prince Galadedrid Damodred is "a winged silver sword, point down"; the symbols of rank among the Asha'man brotherhood are a "red-golden dragon" and... a "silver sword!" In my opinion the symbolism here is just too right not to be a clue, especially as we all know RJ's love of such devious pointers.Incidentally I will add that I suspect the palace Elaida is building will become the true Black Tower after the farm in Andor is destroyed by Taim vs Logain.  It is said to be as tall as the White Tower and is being built on the Warders former practice grounds. I would just love the irony of seeing the last Red Amyrlin's palace become the Black Tower.</p><p>I believe that when Taim is ousted from the Black Tower, Rand and Galad will stand side by side as leaders of the Asha'man and that together they will forge a truly formidable order of channeling knights, taking a place at Tar Valon as the equals of the Aes Sedai rather than their inferiors. And by the Light, who could stand against those two brothers?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I do not know if Jordan has ever stated in an interview whether or not Galad can channel (he has clearly stated that Thom cannot channel, because he got so sick of being asked that).  It is tough to say how apt Galad would be to channel, and I really do not feel like doing the genetics.  I left that long behind in high school biology...  But I <i>really</i> like the idea of Elaida's palace becoming the Black Tower!  I just hope Elaida is still alive to see it... <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Elaida Responsible For Thom's Nephew's Death
body:
<p>I not sure if anybody has brought this up before, but as I was reading <i>A Crown Of Swords</i> prologue it stuck me that Elaida is personally responsible for the death of Thom's nephew and many other men who could channel.</p><p>Below are the parts that led me to this conclusion.<blockquote>"Four hundred rabble, Alviarin." She felt calmer already, for Alviarin's mouth had thinned. Just a fraction, but she savored any crack in the woman's facade.  "If there are that many. Only a fool could believe that more than one or two can channel. At most! In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years"</blockquote>Another quote...<blockquote>"Twenty-four is a dangerous number to speak aloud," Alviarin said with an ominous quiet, "as dangerous as two thousand. The Chronicles record only sixteen. The last thing needed now is for those years to rear up again. Or for sisters who know only what they were told to learn the truth. Even those you brought back hold their silence."</blockquote></p><p>The two quotes above tell us that a number of men have been gentled when they were found instead of being taken back to the White Tower. I'm not sure on this, but wasn't Thom's nephew gentled by a group of Aes Sedai within the last twenty years?<blockquote>Elaida put on a bemused look. So far as she knew, Alviarin had learned the truth of those years only on being raised Keeper, but her own knowledge was more personal. Not that Alviarin could be aware of that.</blockquote>This last quote makes me think that perhaps Elaida was either in charge of the group of Aes Sedai that found him, or that she was the one to give the orders to gentle any man that they found without taking them back to the White Tower.</p><p>Either way she could have done the same for the other eight men that were not recorded in the chronicles.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Hmmmmm...  I have been working on this update for a loooooooong time, so I am hardly in any shape to think deep WoT thoughts and shoot holes in theories.  <img src="images/wink.gif" />  But I must say that I would LOVE it if Elaida was responsible for Owyn's death, because that could make for a very interesting Elaida-Thom showdown.  And <i>that</i> is a scene I would love to see!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-24 00:00:00
subject: Mesaana = Vandene
body:
<p>This is my first post and a little thin but I was reading A Crown of Swords again and the part where Mesaana is questioning Alviarin. Alviarin is trying to figure out who Mesaana is in the Tower and...<blockquote>"A finger of shadow  tapped silver lips thoughtfully. Had she seen any sister make that gesture?"</blockquote>Later in the book  Elayne is confronting Merilille, Adeleas, and Vandene regarding the Kin. Merilille is shocked, and Vandene, "seemed mildly taken aback, a thoughtful finger pressed to her lips beneath slightly widened eyes."  Considering that a Darkfriend is among the group when they find Adeleas killed by someone she knew, what are the possibilities that Vandene is Mesaana?  Could a Forsaken figure out how to have a Warder?  It would make a great cover.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I know others have suggested that Mesaana is with the Salidar Aes Sedai, but I am not sure how correct that idea is.  However, there are very few times Jordan just drops something like this without a reason.  It is possible it was just two people making a common gesture  - or it could have been a clue that Vandene is truly Mesaana...  Of course, then there is a whole mess of other problems to solve - how long Mesaana was masquerading as Vandene, how she fooled Adeleas, etc.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-30 00:00:00
subject: Bondage
body:
<p>I have heard a lot of discussion about the logistics of Rand marrying 2 channelers and 1 non. The problem seems to be how their relationships will survive when Min starts aging and dies at a much younger age than Rand, Aviendha, or Elayne will because of their "slowing."<br /><br />My theory on this is that Warders seem to live longer/stay healthier than a normal person. Could the fact that Min has Bonded Rand not provide the same type of benefit only flowing backwards from bondee to bonder? This would definitely help to alleviate the situation.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I'm not sure Warders live any longer than any other "normal" person in WoT.  But even if they do have a slightly longer lease on life, I don't think it would extend to the several hundred years of life Rand, Elayne, and Aviendha would seem to have.  The fact that Min cannot channel and will (at least apparently) age like a normal person is one of the main reasons I hope channeling will disappear after Tarmon Gai'don.  If Jordan leaves that particular thread hanging when WoT ends, I am going to be very disappointed.  <img src="images/perplexed.gif" /></p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> Dammit. The heading made me think this one would be interesting...but alas, yet another boring theory.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-30 00:00:00
subject: Noal Charin
body:
<p>I know some people have been speculating about Jain Farstrider being Tam al'Thor. I think that Noal Charin is a more likely candidate. He knows how to handle dangerous situations - which would be necessary for someone like Jain Farstrider (such as his shouting to supposed others when Mat is attacked by the <i>gholam</i>), he knows an awful lot about countries no one else seems to know anything about, and he can tell a story at least as well as Thom can.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> It seems very likely to me that Noal is Jain Farstrider.  I will be extremely curious to see what will happen whenever Mat figures out one of his traveling companions is the great Jain Farstrider.  Mat's reaction will be quite entertaining, I would imagine!  <img src="images/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-01-30 00:00:00
subject: Semirhage the Truthspeaker
body:
<p>Maybe this is too obvious to bring up but no one else has mentioned it.  Semirhage is Anath, Tuon's Soe'feia. This is how the evidence stacks up.<ol><li>The Guide describes Semirhage as dark, tall and beautiful, suggests she generally wears black and is quote "perfectly proportioned". That matches with Mat's description of Anath in the "Pink Ribbons" Chapter: "A slender women, nearly as dark as her stark black gown and tall even for an Aiel... Her wavy black hair was short... Imperiously beautiful..." There is even a mention of the Forsaken: "He stood there waiting for one of the Forsaken to leap out of the fireplace..."</li><li>The Guide also suggests that Semirhage has little understanding of war. Neither does Anath - in the same chapter she shows her lack of knowledge regarding battle, backs Suroth a known Darkfriend, and has the wrong accent. "The too familiar Seanchan drawl seemed almost absent entirely Suroth has the situation here well in her control what happened to the east can happen in any battle. You must stop wasting time on ridiculous trifles." The loss of that battle was hardly a trifle from a Seanchan point of view, but it is from Semirhage's point of view. About the only incident which puts Anath in a good mood is in the "What a Veil Hides" chapter when Tuon comments that the Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don. Very Semirhage-ish.</li><li>Semirhage has a deep hatred of any who call themselves Aes Sedai. She loves breaking them. Therefore she would be right at home among the Seanchan. The position of Soe'feia also suits her. She has the right to say what she likes without repercussion and gets to physically punish Tuon.</li><li>Demandred has said in a previous book that Semirhage has an unruly charge. In the "Wonderful News" chapter he muses that "...it was difficult for Semirhage to attend these meetings..." These two statements both fit Anath. In "What a Veil Hides" Tuon muses "She had been... unruly... as a child not to mention headstrong." And in "News in a Cloth Sack" - "...the tall stranger (Anath) seemed to have vanished from the Palace... She was on retreat..." That also fits Semirhage.</li><li>Two years ago Tuon's last Soe'feia Neferi died unexpectedly falling down a flight of stairs and despite the fact that her left hand was trained and ready to replace her the Empress named Anath. This seems to be the ideal way for a Forsaken to gain power in Seanchan society.</li></ol>It all fits. However there are a few problems.<ol><li>Ogier can sense the Forsaken. Hence their refusal to work in Tar Valon with Mesaana present, and their mass deserting of Sammael's Illian. Why can't Tuon's Deathwatch Ogier sense Semirhage?</li><li>If Suroth knew she would not be as shocked with Anath's behavior towards Tuon. Why doesn't she know Semirhage's identity?</li><li><i>Damane</i> and to a limited extent <i>sul'dam</i> can sense females who can channel. Why can't they sense Semirhage's abilities?</li><li>Surely the Forsaken would take an interest in Mat. If Anath is Semirhage why doesn't she take more interest in Mat?</li></ol>However there are answers to all these problems.<ol><li>Randland Ogier and Seanchan Ogier are according to the Guide basically different breeds. They may have different abilities due to the extent of their separation since the Breaking. There is no guarantee Seanchan Ogier can even sense Forsaken.</li><li>The Forsaken have shown a past willingness to work along Darkfriends without revealing their identities. Lanfear and Asmodean both did this in the Aiel Waste. Semirhage will not necessary tell Suroth about her assumed identity.</li><li>We have known for a number of books that Semirhage, Mesaana, and Demandred have a basic alliance of a sort that has lasted since before the Breaking. If Mesaana is able to mask her ability to channel from Alviarin then it can be safely assumed that Semirhage could also mask her ability from <i>damane</i> and <i>sul'dam</i>.</li><li>The Dark One does not give the same information to all the Forsaken. While Ishamael certainly knew who Mat was others haven't. Aran'gar had Mat in his reach on at least one occasion and didn't seem interested in him. Semirhage's charge is Tuon. The Dark One may not have provided her with information about Mat. There may have been a direct reference to Mat when Tuon had her <i>damane</i> foretell her future. However Tuon clearly hasn't told Anath what was foretold. From Anath's point if view Mat is nothing more than Tylin's pink pet.</li></ol></p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I certainly agree there is plenty of evidence to support Semirhage currently hiding as Anath.  I'm currently on my way through <i>Winter's Heart</i> again (though school reading is making it slow! <img src="images/angry.gif" />), and I'm going to pay more attention to this the next time through.  Of course, in a theory this long you realize I do feel a need to disagree with you about <i>something</i>...  <img src="images/wink.gif" />  I think it is unlikely that Semirhage would not know about Mat.  There are countless Darkfriends who know of Mat, Rand, and Perrin - they were shown to a whole meeting of Darkfriends at the beginning of <i>The Great Hunt</i>, for example.  While the Dark One certainly does pick and choose who gets what information, I think it unlikely that he would not share the identity of someone as important with Mat with one of the Forsaken.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-02 00:00:00
subject: Another Possible Slayer Assassination
body:
<p>The little scene with Isam/Luc in <i>Winter's Heart</i> got me to thinking about another killing he might be responsible for.  I've seen it proposed that he murdered Asmodean, and I can buy that one, but how about this:  Isam/Luc killed Adeleas and Ispan.<br /> <br />He pops in and out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> in the flesh seemingly without effort, and he should be able to use this method to get in and out of anywhere undetected.  He is frequently hired by the Forsaken (or "begged" as he puts it) to do their dirty work.  It would be very easy for him to pop into the room that Adeleas and Ispan were occupying and assassinate them.  There would of course have to be a Darkfriend accomplice among the Aes Sedai/Windfinders/Kin, who could drug the tea.  Then Isam/Luc could pop out of <i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> and do the deed.  He seems to be very efficient and quick at his job, and he could be in and out before anyone knew the difference.<br /> <br />There is a precedent for this - the Stone of Tear.  He is the one who popped in and killed the Black Ajah Sisters while they were  being held in the Stone of Tear after it fell to Rand.  This is a very similar circumstance to Ispan being held.  <br /> <br />Note also that this removes the idea that Adeleas was the target as well.  He most likely meant to kill Ispan and whoever happened to be guarding her, whether it was Vandene or Adeleas.  Adeleas just happened to take the overnight guard shift on the wrong night.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I definitely enjoyed that scene with Slayer, and I figured it would be fertile ground for all sorts of interesting new theories.  And here we go...  I definitely think Slayer is a good candidate for the murders of Adeleas and Ispan.  It will be interesting as the series continues to learn just how many murders Slayer might be responsible for.  And in case you can't tell, I'm just trying to fill up some space, since I don't recall this scene well enough off the top of my head (and my copy of <i>Winter's Heart</i> is a few hours away) to respond with intelligent comments.  <img src="images/biggrin.gif" /></p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> I wonder...can he do it in RL? I'm sure there are a few people I wouldn't mind him knocking off...*coughcoughTevyncough*...it'd make my job a lot easier, not having to sort through all these theories... <img src="images/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-05 00:00:00
subject: On the Bondage Theory...
body:
<p>What will it matter if Min will age?  Or if there is channeling after the Last Battle?  It's almost been stated verbatim that Rand will die then anyway.  The dreams Egwene has had of the three women standing over him coincide with Min's visions of the same.  And the Prophecies, whatever translation, have his blood spilt on the rocks of Shayol Ghul to save the world.  Elayne, pregnant that she now is, has stated clearly that she will marry Rand even though he will die, Aviendha agreeing they will be sister-wives.<br /><br />I don't see Min living much longer anyway.  She's going to see the wrong thing... Or wrong person for that matter... And just like Faile, will go the way of the nobly deceased... (At least we can hold our breaths and hope!)  Not that I don't like Min, I just don't see it as realistic that she has lived as long as she has.  She's got a death wish just screaming for one of the Chosen to reach out for...</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> Well, it will matter if Min ages because she would grow old and die while Rand, Aviendha, and Elayne all happily live on for a few hundred years.  This would be an unfortunate (and pretty lousy) consequence of three of the four of these people being able to channel.  As for Rand dying at Tarmon Gai'don, I think it extremely unlikely he will die (at least for good).  There are just too many parallels between Rand and Christ to avoid the idea that even if Rand does die, he will most likely be resurrected.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-06 00:00:00
subject: Verin's Mistake
body:
<p>I have been  trying to solve the Verin puzzle. Although I haven't figured out her motive completely, I have gathered some pieces of evidence and have speculated on her mistake.<br /> <br />First, we find out that she can lie, which has been pointed out frequently on this site. Then, it has been questioned whether or not she is bound, which leads to questions about he age and of ageless appearance. But, recall that she gives Egwene the <i>ter'angreal</i> from Corianin Nedal to enter <i></i><i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i> during that same scene. Later, Egwene meets the Wise Ones who regularly enter <i></i><i>Tel'aran'rhiod</i>. Interesting coincidence.<br /> <br />Then, Verin may have channeled in a <i>stedding</i>. Recall, this is to sense the emptiness of an Ogier who had some bad luck in the Ways. In <i>Winter's Heart</i> we learn that there are exceptions to channeling in a non-channeling zone. Also, characters in the WoT often wonder how the Ways were created by male channelers if a <i>stedding</i> is a non-channeling zone. What does this tell us? Maybe Verin has a <i>ter'angreal</i> or a talent not publicly revealed (this would not be the first instance of this).<br /> <br />Before I digress too much, let me point out that Verin seemed to have some foresight about Alanna's bonding. Verin mentioned to Perrin to be wary of Alanna, as if Verin suspected Alanna was going to try to bond one of the <i>ta'veren</i>, but Perrin was not the one that Verin wanted Alanna to bond, so Verin warned him. I may be mistaken, but I do not think that Verin was all too disappointed in Alanna bonding Rand. Also, in <i>Winter's Heart</i>, I believe either Verin or Cadsuane clearly mentioning the value of that bond (Manipulative women. Is that adjective redundant?). That bond led them to him in Far Madding.<br /> <br />That brings us to another Verin fact. She is reluctant to reveal her identity in Far Madding due to some past criminal offense. Far Madding has had a couple False Dragons and has created a non-channeling zone around their city. Verin has mentioned that she has been in a "Trolloc boiling pot once or twice". She mentioned in the prologue of book eight that she had tried to use a version of compulsion on as man once, and it failed disastrously. Could this been related to her actions in Far Madding? Maybe.<br /> <br />Considering her talent with a version of compulsion, I would like to point out that she used this as a means to make all of those Aes Sedai held by the Aiel Wise Ones swear fealty to the Dragon Reborn. Note that Cadsuane thinks this is very peculiar (the fealty swearing), since the Aes Sedai are not very close to the <i>ta'veren</i>, etc. This lack or knowledge on Cadsuane's part demonstrates that Verin and Cadsuane are not partners in crime. This is also highlighted by Verin almost putting a tasteless sleeping herb into Cadsuane's tea. Note that Verin decides not to add the herb after Cadsuane reveals her intent with the Dragon Reborn. Also, Cadsuane ponders not understanding why a certain fellow went into the blight. I think she is speaking of Luc leaving Andor to go to defeat the Dark One at Shayol Ghul. (I believe that this has now become the "Lost Highway" of theories.)<br /> <br />To close, I think that Verin is the soothsayer, fortuneteller, etc. of Caemlyn who determined what must happen for a happy ending to occur. (I wish I could remember her name). She is the one who caused Rand's blood mother to go to the Aiel, and also Luc to go the Shayol Ghul. I believe that her sending Luc to Shayol Ghul was her mistake she made seventy years ago. Now, since she knows what must happen for the world to be a happy place, she is doing whatever she can to fix her mistake and make everything come out right. This would include her giving Egwene the <i>ter'angreal</i>, making the Aes Sedai swear fealty, having Alanna bond to Rand, etc. I could be off, but I think I can say with certainty that Verin is being manipulative to redeem her seventy year old error.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> I <i>really</i> need to read all of WoT over again...  <img src="images/oh.gif" />  But in any case, I can definitely say that Verin has always been one of my favorite characters, mostly because of the mystery surrounding her.  Every time a scene starts from Verin's point of view, I'm a little more tuned in to what is going on, hoping to figure out what her seventy year old plan/secret is.  I do not have too much to say about this theory exactly, except to say that I will be extremely happy to eventually find out for certain what Verin's secrets are.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> I also feel that there is a lot more to Verin than meets the eye.  However, I am vehement in my belief that she is just Verin Mathwin, not Gitara Moroso.  Gitara Moroso died when she revealed that the Dragon Reborn had been born.  Suian Sanche and Moiraine Damodred saw her die.  I don't think Moiraine and Verin could have been in such close contact during the critical past few years and Moiraine not determine that something was up.  Verin's mistake could not have possibly been sending Luc to the Blight as the timing is wrong.  Luc was Tigraine's mother, and as Rand was only in his early twenties when Verin made that comment in her POV, that would mean Luc was sent to the Blight fortysomething years before his sister went to the Aiel waste.  That just isn't feasible from a biological standpoint.  As for your points about Verin's "lie" and channeling in a stedding, well those are just theories themselves, and largely open to debate.  Bottom line is, I think Verin is Verin.  Yes, she has an agenda, but it's her agenda.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-12 00:00:00
subject: More Thoughts of Cyndane
body:
<p>I have another twist on the possible reason that Cyndane appears to be weaker in the Power then  she was when she was Lanfear.  I note with interest in <i>Winter's Heart</i> that Demandred (at least I think it was him, I don't have my book with me at the minute so I apologize if it was another male Forsaken) was musing over the identity of Cyndane.  He said he was convinced it was Lanfear until told that Cyndane was actually weaker then Lanfear. Now we know conclusively now that Cyndane is definitely Lanfear, so it posed the question... Is she trying to hide her true identity from the other Forsaken by concealing her strength?</p><p>We know that the Forsaken can conceal their strength already by the fact that Mesaana has been masquerading as an Aes Sedai in the white tower for some time.  If unable to mask her strength Mesaana would have been discovered long ago I'm sure.  So why would Cyndane/Lanfear do this?<ol><li>Embarrassment...  The fact that she was killed and resurrected into someone else's body would probably irk Lanfear like nothing else would. Although I'm sure Moridin knows her true identity, I can imagine Cyndane trying to keep that little secret from everyone else.  Lanfear got a lot of leverage against the other female Forsaken for being the prettiest - it wouldn't do to have her resurrected into a body that is less than perfect.</li><li>Knowledge is power...  Knowing who the other Forsaken are, and them not knowing her provides Cyndane with a distinct advantage.  The other Forsaken don't know who she is, how she is going to react, what tricks are up her sleeve etc whereas she knows all of theirs.  If anything have a new "girl" on the street will keep the rest of the Forsaken on the back foot.  Let's remember they are all still jostling against each other for power - if they aren't too sure how Cyndane is going to react, they may be reluctant to make a move against her.</li><li>Trick up her sleeve...  Can you imagine the advantage Cyndane has if all the Forsaken (excluding Moridin) underestimate her power?  She could suddenly conjure up her full strength (which we have been told is a strong as any of the male Forsaken) and take someone completely by surprise (assuming she ever gets rid of her mindtrap).</li></ol>The only thing I can think of to debunk this theory is why would Moridin allow her to conceal her strength.  To this I don't have any good answers.  The likelihood of him not knowing she is doing this would be small.  Maybe he thinks it is amusing and he is allowing her to do this because it may help him in the future.  Any ideas?</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> This is a possibility that I don't believe had occurred to me before.  And I suppose it is a reasonable idea, something Lanfear might do to conceal her true identity from the other Forsaken.  Have we seen any part of the story from Cyndane's point of view in which she thinks about her strength in the Power?  I can't recall...  In any event, an interesting idea!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-13 00:00:00
subject: Rand's Channeling Sickness
body:
<p>Rand gets the Ishamael wound in <i>The Great Hunt</i>, which we know Ishamael used True Power almost exclusively so we can be reasonably sure the wound is from True Power.  The True Power comes from the Dark One and is evil. When anyone delves Rand's wound they say it feels evil. Next in <i>A Crown of Swords</i> he gets the Fain wound and Flynn seals the wounds together. So there are two forms of evil sealed inside Rand. A few chapters later Rand meets the Wanderer aka Moridin and they cross balefire beams. They both fall to the ground and Rand has the first symptom of his channeling sickness. Ever since then he's had problems seizing <i>saidin</i>. <br /><br />Now then the taint was made by the Dark One and it is most likely made from True Power. My theory was that he put a layer of True Power on <i>saidin</i> so that every time they seized it, they had to go through this layer of evil. This caused the rotting disease and the madness. So perhaps the combination of the wounds and whatever the crossed balefire beams did reacted with the taint already on <i>saidin</i> to cause Rand's sickness. Perhaps the balefire beams (Rand's One Power beam and Moridin's True Power beam) weakened the shield around the two wounds, intensifying the taint for Rand. <br /><br />Now in <i>Winter's Heart</i>, Rand apparently cleanses <i>saidin</i>, so the question remains will Rand's sickness remain. I say yes for two reasons. First, as long as Fain and the Shadar Logoth dagger remain, so will the Shadar Logoth wound. Second, as long as the Dark One is able to touch the pattern, there will be True Power and thus Rand's Ishamael wound. So in order to Heal the two wounds Fain and the dagger have to be destroyed and the Dark One must be sealed away. <br /><br />Now it's possible that with <i>saidin</i> being cleansed the effects of the wounds may lessen, but to be completely Healed, I believe the above must take place.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> As always, I love to play devil's advocate...  I don't know that the Dark One will need to be sealed away for Rand's channeling trouble to disappear.  As it is, he is having trouble seizing <i>saidin</i>.  If Tarmon Gai'don is still a ways away (and with a few books to go, that's quite a while in Randland time), it's tough to imagine Rand being able to channel at all if things continue to progress as they have been.  I hope that the cleansing of <i>saidin</i> will solve his problem channeling.  Plus that would eliminate the constant descriptions of the problems he has getting a hold of <i>saidin</i>...  <img src="images/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-13 00:00:00
subject: Another Tarmon Gai'don
body:
<p>The Wheel of Time turns and Ages come and go...</p><p>As long as this happens there will not be a Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, the Dark One will continually try to escape the bonds the Dragons of history place upon him. And, as those bonds weaken other Dragons will have to create new bonds.</p><p>Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don, The Last Battle, suggests it will put an end to this constant pattern.</p><p>How? Here&rsquo;s a few things to ponder.</p><p>There is no mention anywhere that Lews Therin knew he was a Dragon, one of a number who are continually reborn to fight the Dark One. There is also no mention of him following any prophecies. His blood wasn&rsquo;t spilt on the rocks of Shayol Gul, he didn&rsquo;t pay a price.</p><p>But perhaps he did know what and who he was, as did all the other Dragons down through history.</p><p>Maybe when it came down to spilling his blood and paying the price, Lews Therin and all the other Dragons could not do it. Their resolve was broken at the last and all their will would allow them to do was seal the bore, create bonds they thought would hold the Dark One for eternity. </p><p>Perhaps Lews Therin knew what it was he needed to do to put an end to the Dark One, but at the last moment his fear outweighed the responsibility. Could it be the price was too much to pay?</p><p>Perhaps Lews Therin and other Dragons felt the allure of rebirth too tantalising, a way to immortality without having to side with the Shadow.</p><p>We know that Lews Therin occasionally attempts to take control. Maybe Lews Therin finds a strength and resolve in Rand that he didn&rsquo;t posess himself and is worried Rand may do what is required to ensure his battle with the Dark One is the last.  Maybe Lews Therin believes Rand is willing to pay the price.  Rand hates who he is and what he has to do (death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain), but has decided to do it anyway. Even to the extent of planning for his death. </p><p>Rand will spill his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul and pay the price he must pay, whatever that may be.</p><p>The result of Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don could mean one thing, freedom. Freedom from the Wheel of Time, and the lives of all will not be governed by a Pattern of any kind.</p><p>Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don will mean either:<ul><li>Eternal damnation for the world (if the Shadow wins), and no hope of redemption.</li><li>If Rand wins, an end to the stagnant Wheel of Time and no pattern to govern the lives of men.</li></ul>Either way time will be freed. And that&rsquo;s what I believe Tarmon Gai&rsquo;don will mean.</p><p><b>wotmania says:</b> An interesting idea, I can't recall ever having seen someone suggest that Lews Therin (and the other Dragons before him) weren't up to the task of putting the Dark One away for good...  I know I am of the firm belief that this will be the LAST Battle, and I'll be pretty disappointed if it isn't.  Certainly some interesting food for thought in this theory!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-13 00:00:00
subject: Ogier Armies
body:
<p>Since we have had a few clues about the Ogier possibly stirring themselves from their <i>stedding</i> and fighting, is it possible that the two armies 'appearing' in Andor are actually Ogier?<br /> <br />The last we saw, Loial was setting off with an Asha'man to tell all the <i>stedding</i> about the Waygates, this would seem to be the perfect time to gather all the Ogier together.<br /><br />With Traveling, it should be possible to visit the <i>stedding</i> at a rate of about one an hour (time taken to learn the area for a gateway), so at a rate of twelve a day, (give the guy some sleep) there will have been plenty of time between <i>Crown Of Swords</i> and <i>Winters Heart</i> to visit all the <i>stedding</i> (I can't believe there are more than 100).<br /><br />Also, I seem to recall that <i>Stedding</i> Shangtai (Loial's home) is to the east of Andor.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> It would make sense that with the coming of the Last Battle the Ogier would stir.<br /><br />One correction.  Stedding Shangtai is nestled in the Spine of the World.  So technically you are right, but far off.<br /><br />I like this idea.  We know that Seanchan Ogiers have a reputaion for being realy nasty guys, and it'd be interesting to see what the Mainland ogiers will be like in battle.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-13 00:00:00
subject: Tuon's Plan
body:
<p>Ok. I came up with this one with Templin. So far, I haven't found anything to disprove it.<br /><br />Our theory is that Tuon actually planned to acquire Mat for herself.  Here's why:	<br /><br />1. Tuon tried to buy him in the first place and was disappointed that she couldn't. So she tried to find another way to get him.<br /><br />2. Tuon started to make Tylin one of the blood for no apparent reason except because of friendship. There must be more behind it. Tuon also gives lands to Tylin. Tuon is in essence, trying to buy Mat in other ways.<br /><br />3. Tuon tries to buy ashandarei from Mat. She obviously saw the engravings of the ravens on it. She also inspected his ring when she examined him for the first time. Notice the symbolism of the engravings on the ring.<br /><br />4. Tuon stalks Mat when he is in the palace. She has an obvious interest in him.<br /><br />5. Tylin willingly let Mat go on the night when he planned to leave. That's so unlike Tylin. Why would Tylin let him go?. Tuon and Tylin have more than likely struck a deal of some sort. Tylin will give Mat to Tuon<br /><br />6. Tuon happened to be in the stable yard during his escape attempt. She was there just in case Tylin didn't hold him for one more night. She was alone because of Seanchan overconfidence. She thought that she could detain <br />him if necessary.<br /><br />7. Tuon smiles for him and nobody else. But only occasionally. Other noble <br />women don't smile at him. Why is that?<br /><br />Our conclusion is that Tuon's plan backfired. <br />Wenrick and Templin <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Tuon definitely has some cards up her sleeve.  The question is, why all this interest in Mat?  If she's in love, then why all this run-around?  Unless it's a custom to buy your love.  I believe thats what Egeanin did with Bayle.  I may be wrong.  No, not me, I'm never wrong.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-14 00:00:00
subject: True Power is Pure Evil/Chaos Theory
body:
<p></p><p><b>What do we know about the TP?</b></p><p>The following facts are known about the TP that relate to my theory:</p><p>·	The use of the TP drives a person mad (i.e. Ishamael/Moridin &ndash; the <i>saa</i> etc).</p><p>·	It was used to attack Rand and create the wound it his side.  When this wound is attempted to be healed, Nynaeve (etc) feels general evil/madness associated with the wound.  (That the TP was used is an assumption, however one I believe it is very sound as: (1) It was Ishy who made the wound - a TP manic; (2) At the end of WH the wound in Rand's side was as bad as ever, this surprised Flinn who thought that is would have been better with the Taint gone.  However as it was caused directly by the TP the removal of the Taint is irrelevant; and (3) The way the Knife wound worked against the TP wound = Mashadar against The Taint.)</p><p><b>Summary of the True Power</b></p><p>The point I am trying to make is that the TP is a "magical" manifestation of chaos/madness/evil. I believe that we can look at other parts of the series where evil/chaos is related to "unusual occurrences" and find that the TP was used (some times directly by the Dark One).</p><p><b>Other Uses of the True Power</b></p><p>In the series we know three unexplained phenomena that have some descriptions relating to "chaos/madness/evil".  These are:</p><p>·	The seals which are being destroyed, even though they are supposed to be indestructable (they feel "evil" when touched)</p><p>·	The taint on <i>saidin</i> (drives the wielder mad and corrupts use)</p><p>·	<i>Machin Shin</i> (the wind that drives you mad)</p><p>I believe each of these situations was created by the Dark One (or perhaps one of his minions) channeling the TP.  The link that everyone has been talking about between the Taint and the seals is the madness/evil associated with both.  This exists because both were created using the TP.</p><p><b>The Source of the TP</b></p><p>I don't believe that the Dark One has an unending supply of the TP.  In order to have the TP the Dark One needs evil/chaotic acts to occur.   He can then take the "energy" (or something like that) from these acts and convert them to direct useable power in the form of the TP.  As such the Dark One encourages any actions that result in evil/chaos as they increase his power.   I believe Fel supports this when he states in his note to Rand "Order provides Strength". (i.e. order reduces that power that the Dark One has and conversely Chaos increases it.)  In addition the Dark One only hands out the TP very sparingly (only 29 had ever had the "honor").  This indicates that the supply is limited.</p><p><b>Why the Dark One wants "The Lord of Chaos to Rule"</b></p><p>The reason that The Dark One is so happy about Rand running around causing the total mayhem may be because the Dark One is getting an enormous amount of power from it.  Basically the Chaos Rand is generating the Dark Lord is using to break the final seals (and whatever other evil acts the that we don't know about that are required).</p><p><b>Conclusion</b></p><p>The TP is a manifestation of Chaos/Evil that the Dark One can use/wield/delegate.  The more chaos/evil in the world the more power the Dark One has.  The Taint on <i>saidin</i>, the damage to the seals and <i>Machin Shin</i> are all caused/created by the TP.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Perhpas the True Power is recyclable.  As it is spent, the Dark One soaks the remnants of used TP, therefore replenishing the loss</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> This certainly is a different take on it.  I've always believed that the True Power was just the opposite of the One Power, in a Yin-Yang relationship such as <i>saidar</i> and <i>saidin</i>.  But your evidence is convincing that perhaps there is only a limited supply to it.  However I do believe that the Dark One wants the 'Lord of Chaos to rule' because the more Rand becomes the "Dragon Reborn", the less humanity he retains.  But this is an interesting theory, and it certainly made me reevaluate my opinion on the matter.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-14 00:00:00
subject: The Amayar used to be Aiel/Tinkers
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<p></p><p>In <i>Path of Daggers</i>, the point of view of the Amayar people on the island of Tremalking is given.  They follow the <u>Water Way</u>, which is a way of pacifism and peace very similar to the <u>Way of the Leaf</u>.  They also believe that this world is one of illusion, very similar to the way that the Aiel believe that this world is a dream.  The Amayar believe that the illusion will end one day, while the Aiel believe that the dream will end some day.  </p><p>We already know that the Tinkers and Aiel are the same race/background.  My theory is that the Amayar are also from the same stock, and that The Breaking separated them.</p><p>As we know, this race of people were all given <i>chora</i> cuttings to protect from the breaking by the Aes Sedai.  Perhaps the Amayar resulted from some of the wagons being separated by the raids of bandits, and from their <i>chora</i> cuttings now have a living <i>Avendesora</i> tree in their keeping.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> When I read this theory, I went scrambling to see if someone else had posted it.  The similarities are striking, and since we don't know the geography of the land before the Breaking, I suppose it's possible.  The only strong evidence against your theory is that Rand saw nothing of the Amayar when he was in the <i>ter'angreal</i> in Rhuidean.  Of course, that does not mean that your theory is wrong.  This just could be an RJ attempt to tie an island that's been on the map but barely seen since EOTW into the big picture.  The end of WH hints that we could see more of Tremalking in the future.  I just hope RJ doesn't open a big can of worms with it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-14 00:00:00
subject: The Cleansing Of The Power In WH
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<p></p><p>The idea of how exactly Rand cleansed <i>saidin </i>has been troubling me over the last couple of days.  Eventually though, I feel I have worked out what exactly Rand did, and where he got his idea.</p><p>We all know of Rand's conflicting wounds, one from the Dark One, the other from the Fain's dagger.  This, I feel was Rand's inspiration.  Rand knew that the wounds were 'battling' each other.  So, instead of removing the taint, he moved it, as seen in <i>With the Choedan Kal</i>. Rand comment about what he is feeling from the taint gives a clue of what is happening, <i>"The taint was moving"</i>.  Rand seemingly moved the taint, but where did he move it? He moved into Shadar Logoth.  Because of this, the Dark One and the evil at Shadar Logoth seemingly battled each other, as the wounds constantly do at Rands side.  This battle of evils was seen by Moghedien.  She describes the events as, <i>"Suddenly something withered up from that dark smooth surface, like a flame if flames were blacker than black, then another, another, until the dome boiled with stygian fire"</i>  This was the battle of the evil at Shadar Logoth and the Dark One. </p><p><b>SUMMATION</b></p><p>Rand's inspiration were the wounds in his sides.</p><p>Rand didn't destroy the taint, but rather moved it into Shadar Logoth, where the evils could battle each other.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, the fact that there were still effects of the taint felt after its 'cleansing' does lend credence to your theory.  I also believe that Rand got the idea from the wounds in his side, one caused by TP and the other by Mashadar.  Only time will tell us whether <i>saidin</i> is truly cleansed or not.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-14 00:00:00
subject: Saidin, the True Power, Black Cords, Crossing Streams and the Seals
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<p>Rand and Nynaeve's apparent cleaning of Saidin in the closing pages of <i>Winter's Heart</i> lead me to believe that the black cords seen on some of the male Forsaken do indeed protect them from the taint. What is described in WH is a thin black conduit through which the taint is siphoned off into the big black bubble over Shadar Logoth which finally implodes. This is interesting as the black conduit sounds a lot like the black cords the male Forsaken have. What I think this means is that the taint is being removed from Saidin before the Forsaken channel, and siphoned off back to the Dark One, in much the same way as Rand does in WH. The taint has often been described as being like an oil slick on top of pure Saidin, and it is entirely possible with this description to simply take off the top layer.<br /><br />However, something bothers me about the way Saidin was appararently cleaned. The fact that the taint was taken away and put into a bubble and blown up seems somehow wrong. This implies that the taint is a finite entity. What we know is that the One Power is infinite and therefore so are Saidin and Saidar. Every time Saidin flows a part of the taint flows with it, like water and oil in a pipe. Yet if the taint were finite then that would mean that someday it would have simply run out. And ever since the taint was put there it would have been getting weaker and weaker. What would have happened I wonder had Rand not come along for another few thousand years? Would he have been completely sane? <br /><br />This may seem a strange point, but if the taint were in fact finite then it could explain why the hundred companions went mad straight away. When you empty a bath for example you take out the plug and at first the water flows away very quickly. As the amount of water in the bath decreases so does the rate at which the water drains away. This is an exponential decay. At first the rate at which something occurs is very fast, and then quite quickly the rate slows until the rate becomes pretty much constant for a long time, as it slowly drops to nothing. The taint could very well have behaved in this way. The hundred companions would have been hit by a huge dosage of the taint the first time they tried to channel after it had arrived. This would have driven them instantly mad. After a while the rate the taint came out at would have been considerably less. I think that the amount of the taint that Rand and the Asha'men feel when they channel is virtually nothing compared to what the men would have felt in the Age of Legends, which explains why men only go mad slowly in the current time.<br /><br />But having said all this I don't actually believe that Saidin has been cleansed. It seemed to me far to easy. I would have expected it to take more to remove the influence of the Dark One from Saidin than simply sitting in a field for a few hours. So what does this mean? I think Rand has simply bought himself some more time and a way to cut down the number of crazy Asha'men floating around. But I think that slowly they will still go mad and the taint will slowly build up again.<br /><br />While on the subject of the taint I have a possible idea of where it might have come from. We (think we) know that Moridin was at Shadar Logoth and at some point ended up crossing weaves of True Power with Rand's Saidin, and that ever since then he has been feeling more and more dizzy each time he tries to channel. Moral of the story, crossing streams is bad (anybody thinking Ghostbusters right about now?). The fact that this could happen is interesting, as weaves of Saidin cannot touch Saidar, so there is plainly a difference between One Power and True Power. My theory about where the taint comes from centres on the hundred companions being either very unlucky or very, very stupid.<br /><br />Here's the possibility that they are stupid. It seems that without any women, and therefore Saidar, the hundred companions would have been pretty desperate when going up against the Dark One. It is stated several times that no-one can walk too long in the shadow to return to the light. What if the hundred companions persuaded some Dreadlords to turn on their Great Lord Of The Dark and use the True Power against him? A strange thing but possible. The other possibility, that they were unlucky, I think is more likely and goes something like this. The hundred companions Travel to Shayol Ghul and start putting this weave of theirs around it. They are then disturbed by a few hundred or so dreadlords, using the True Power. Their streams cross and do bad things and somehow the taint forms in Saidin as a consequence (if the dreadlords were turned by the hundred companions the streams may have been woven together intentionally). I think this is possible by the fact that the True Power seems to be tainted as well. Getting black things floating around your eyes doesn't sound good to me, and I seem to recall one of the other Forsaken saying it was painful to use. This also kinda makes sense by the fact that the One Power is described as a white river/lake. The counterpoint to this would most likely be an evil black one, which is what the taint looked like when Rand siphoned it off.<br /><br />Oh, and the reason the taint is (was) still around is because the contaminated weaves of Saidin were bound to the seals, which are ter'angreal which leave a supply of Saidin flowing to keep the weave strong, and thus the link. Phew!</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> A concise, practically thought out theory.  Who'd have thought!<br /><br />I really liked the way you explained this.  IMHO, I still say the taint is clean.  Rand needs it to be cleansed for Tarmon Gai'don.  It has to be.<br /><br /><br />Otherwise, well done.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-14 00:00:00
subject: Stating the Obvious
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<p>Moridin is Ishamael.  Cyndane is Lanfear.  Osan'gar is Aginor, and is Corlan Dashiva.  The Daughter of the Nine Moons is one of the Seanchean Empress's children.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Wow, thank you Captain Obvious.  But, only 1 out of four has been proved.  So, better luck next time.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-15 00:00:00
subject: You, I, and the Other one
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<p>What exactly is the face Rand sees? Who is that third person Lews Therin talks about? Let's look at this objectively. What exactly happens to Rand and all other channelers because of the taint? They go mad? Not necessarily, Taim seems to have held it off quite a while. He may be a darkfriend, but others also have held off madness for a long time. But what other side effect do we see in male channelers that don't happen to anyone else? Perhaps you'll remember when Taim refers to killing some in their sleep because the madness was taking root in them. Only a bit sooner in the book do you see one of these men talking to themselves. First I'd like to remind you that Shai'tan has resurrected forsaken. Now, if he can insert an old life into a new body then. . . in theory, much like we see in Rand's case, the men going insane are also talking with a voice in their head. Since the Dark One's power can resurrect, the taint is resurrecting the person they were in the previous life. The men who do not yield to madness soon rot alive from the taint, yet it seems a quicker side effect that a barrier is wearing thin between their previous life and now. We see an old life being integrated into a new body, and even perhaps trying to take over. Perhaps it is the previous life taking over that is the actual madness, but that is not the point at hand. The point is that Lews Therin is/was mad. So it would only stand to reason that he had access to his previous identity. Moreover, the previous incarnation lived and died before the taint and never had that barrier broken between lives. To refute another theory posted herein, the next incarnation of the Dragon Reborn will live and die without the taint and therefore will not be accessible by Rand. So, the third person that Rand only has a vague awareness of, but Lews Therin speaks freely of is none other but the person that plagued Lews Therin in his madness, his previous self.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> I've seen this mentioned before, and I actually tend to agree with it.  The taint wears thin the barrier between this life and past incarnations, and hence the voices in the head.  While others thinks it's madness, it may be actually real.  Good job!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-15 00:00:00
subject: Lanfear+Birgitte=Artemis?
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<p>In school, we are studying Greek Mythology, and I realized that in the Wheel of Time, both Birgitte and Lanfear have characteristics of Artemis, the Greek goddess of the hunt, and of the moon (Roman Diana). She carried a silver bow, <br />and never missed (birgitte?). Also, she had many names. One of these was Selene...she was the goddess of the moon...now, what does Lanfear mean again?</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Yes, they definitely have the chracteristics.  Lanfears name translates to Daughter of the Night, which one would connect to the Moon goddess.<br /><br />There are three phases of Artemis though.  Selene (full moon), Regular Artemis (with the waxing and waning moon), and Hecate (no moon/new moon)  I consider Lanfear more like Hecate, who is an evil lady.  <br /><br />I like this.  We're always comparing the three ta'varen with norse gods, why look deeper.  Good job.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-15 00:00:00
subject: Moridin is not the Nae'blis
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<p></p><p>Was there ever a point in the story where the Dark One actually <b>named</b> someone Nae'blis?  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the only time I remember reading of the Dark One ever mentioning anything about naming someone Nae'blis was when he was talking to Demandred (I think), and said <i>"YOU WOULD BE NAMED NAE'BLIS?"</i>, so we don't have exact confirmation on this subject.Was there ever a point in the story where it was said that Nae'blis needed to be able to channel?  This was just a point that was assumed, because the only suspects we have seen so far as candidates for Nae'blis are the Forsaken.</p><p>Would the Dark One actually name one of the Forsaken Nae'blis?</p><p>I do not believe that Moridin is Nae'blis, but rather someone we have seen since the first book.  We have seen this type of deception that Jordan uses before, in the Children of the Light, where Lord Captain Commander Pedron Niall's real spy was his secretary, instead of the dumb figurehead that everyone believed the spy to be.  After all, what use would a spy be if he was known?  Anyway, back to my point.  I think that Moridin is actually a distraction.  He's not the real Nae'blis; just a decoy.  Someone to distract the Forsaken and Rand (should he ever learn of it) from the real Nae'blis.  </p><p>So who could it be?  Who else has had direct contact with the Dark One?</p><p>Fain, is the answer to that question.  Now, we have never seen any evidence of him channeling, but why can't he channel the True Power?  Granted, the only people we've seen that can channel it can channel the One Power as well, but the True Power has been refered to as something that can only be used with the "Great Lord's Blessing", so why can't the Dark One give his "blessing" to someone that he has completely reshaped, and therefore can have complete trust in?</p><p>Fain has already shown that he is a serious force to fear, when he nailed the Fade to the door during the Perrin's hunt for the Horn, as well as the damage he has caused with that knife.  Also, Trollocs and Fades have been shown to fear and cower before him.  Why?  Why would such fearsome creatures be afraid of a scrawny man with a knife?  True, the knife is a special knife, but I'm sure at least a Fade and a few Trollocs would be able to over power him easily, but they can't.  Why?  Because he can channel the True Power.  I can guarantee that no Fade would stand against a door and wait to be nailed on to it if it could do anything about it.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Yes, RJ has used deception a lot in this series.  However, I believe all the facts point to Moridin as being the Nae'blis.  Remember, Graendal was told she would be Nae'blis too.  The Dark One is using the prize of being Nae'blis as a way to keep those Forsaken in line.  As for Moridin, well he has already been granted privileges nobody else has, such as holding Moghedian and Cyndane's <i>cour'souvras</i>.  Fain does have special powers, being a Darkfriend infected with Mashadar, but I do <b>not</b> believe he is Nae'blis.  If anything, Fain's obsessive desire to kill Rand is more of a detriment to the Dark One's plans than an aid.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-16 00:00:00
subject: Another Last Battle Take
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<p>I am pretty sure I have not seen this anywhere else yet, so here goes.<br /><br />The last battle is NOT about Rand Vs the Dark One.  It ever has been about that.  The clue was given in the ancient game so similar to stones with the &ldquo;fisher&rdquo; piece. The Battle has ALWAYS been about which side ends up controlling this piece when the game ends.<br /><br />Example: If at the end of the crucial age (in this case the 3rd age) the fisher(Rand) has swung his loyalties to the Dark One,  the Dark One wins, and the next creation is his.  If the fisher is loyal to the Creator at the end of this age, then the Creator remains in control for the next turning of the wheel.<br /><br />I don&rsquo;t think there will EVER be an end to the turning of the wheel, just that the Dark One is using the threat of it as a tactic to win the Last Battle (Join me or you will doom the world to destruction, or some such nonsense).  In &ldquo;The Eye of the World&rdquo; even after the Dark One has been sealed away, Ishmael makes one last attempt to turn the fisher(Lews Therin this time) to the dark side. SO many times throughout the series you see the Forsaken aiding Rand instead of killing him (the trollocs in the Stone of Tear come to mind), that it seems to me its NOT Rand Vs the Dark One. Otherwise Rand would be dead by now. If that was all it took for the Dark One to win, Rand would have been killed in the Stone.<br /><br />Ishmael has somehow figured this out.  I think because he has always been reborn as the champion for the Dark One whose sole purpose is to turn the fisher.<br /><br />I do not think anyone will dispute that the battle has always been Creator Vs Dark One.  The thing I think folks have missed is that the battle is over Rand&rsquo;s loyalty in the end, nothing more. And I think that the way the Creator will win, is by Rand forfeiting his life (&ldquo;..his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul..&rdquo;) for the cause of the Creator, or at least being willing to forfeit his life for the Creator. Personally I think Rand will survive the Last Battle, but that&rsquo;s just cause I like Rand <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The idea of the Last battle being a large Fisher game is very intriguing.  The connection between Rand and the Fisher (both with clutching their side from a wound) has already been made when Moridin was playing the game, and Ishy/Moridin (dare I bring up THAT topic?) was always a philosopher, a crazy, but a philosopher none the less.  The thought of Rand only having to stay loyal to the Creator is less dramatic, though, to an outright battle.  I want to see some all-out action!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-17 00:00:00
subject: More than just brothers in arms
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<p></p><p>I've just finished reading the theories on Galad and the Whitecloaks, and tend to agree with everyone that Galad will take over somehow; I think it's a foregone conclusion. </p><p>One thing that I think we're missing, and it's been in the back of my mind since Rand's time in Caemlyn, is the connection that Rand has to the royal family of Andor.  Remember Rand's musings of the faces of all the queens of Andor looking down on him in an accusing manner?  I think it's safe to say that we the reader, as well as Rand the character, know that Tigraine was his mother.  When all was said and done, Rand's concern was that he might have been in love with a relative.  Now, enter Galadedrid Damodred. </p><p>I think that the amount of support that Galad, along with the Children, give Rand will ultimately come down to family ties between the two.  We've all read how Galad views Elayne and Gawyn, and how he looks to his duty to protect and/or support them, as evidenced with Galad looking the other way and helping Elayne et all in Amadicia, regardless of whether or not they were actually Aes Sedai, or just misguided women, and regardless of the fact that it goes against the supposed precepts of the Children of the Light. </p><p>My theory is this: </p><p>Galad will somehow be convinced that Rand is his half-brother - either by Elayne when/if he gets to Andor, or through some revelation of his own, or possibly by Rand himself (which the more I think of it, the more that seems the best angle).  Duty is important to Galad, and he will see that because Rand is a part of him, he should look the other way, as he did with Elayne. </p><p>Now, I know what most of you are thinking - <i>"Galad always does right, no matter who it hurts, even himself."</i>  This quote by Elayne is in all our minds when the focus of the books go to Galad, and one I tend to agree with; Rand and his Asha'man are evil, therefore they must be destroyed, for the greater good, of course.  Let's look at it this way. </p><p>Galad will somehow find out about the corruption of the Children of the Light, and will have some sort of epiphany to make things right again.  Before he does this, however, there will be a sense of confusion and disorientation - it is his duty to follow the lead of his commanding officers, however it is also his duty to hold to the precepts of Lothair Mantelar, the founder of the Children.  Let us not also forget that it was Eamon Valda who...urged...Galad in the 'right' direction, and who also became Lord Captain Commander in questionable circumstances.  My thought is that this information will only add to his confusion. </p><p>Now enter the conversation with Rand (or whomever).  The confusion of Galad sets in, and by chance, or someone else's design, Galad meets with the person/people who give him the revelation that Rand al'Thor is his half-brother, and that he's not a bad guy, and yadda-yadda; you get the picture.  Galad is already re-evaluating the warp and woof of things, his mind is probably as open as it will ever get, so why not buy this cockamamie story?  Obviously there will be more to it, but you get the point. </p><p>I'm not saying that everything between the two groups will be all peaches and cream; I'm sure that it will be more of a truce until the final battle.  I think that the revelation of family ties will open Galad's mind to the possibilities, especially in a time of great internal turmoil, and he might actually see the bigger picture for once in his life, and <i>then</i> do the right thing.</p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Well, I do believe that Galad will eventually take over the Whitecloaks.  I think that his "epiphany", as you put it, will be when he finds out that Valda had Morgase raped and tortured.  The right thing to do then will be to kill Valda, and take over the Whitecloaks.  I also agree with you that Galad will try to bring the Children back closer to the teachings of Mantelar, and further from their witchhunting tactics they currently employ.  Despite the Seanchan's domination of Amadicia, the Whitecloaks are still a formidable presence.  Their ranks could greatly aid Rand at Tarmon Gaidon.  Whether that is due to family ties, or just the fact that aiding the Dragon Reborn is the right thing to do remains to be seen.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-18 00:00:00
subject: What is the One Power?
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<p>What is the One Power? Many have speculated that the One Power (OP) is simply the ability to control or manifest the natural forces of nature. Leading that there is, in actuallity, no OP and that it is simply a human trait that appears in one of so many now and again. Again, more have thought of the OP as a raw source of energy that is connected with all things. Evidence of this comes when any of our POV characters open themselves to saidar or saidin, as they tell the flow of all things can be "felt" down to the tiniest imperfections in stonework, the smallest currents of water, the aproxiamate temperature of a source of fire, or the wind region they are currently in. Using this "connection" a person may be able to modify the "current" of the OP through objects in much the same way interupting an electrical current with a sheet of plastic or amplifying the flow by using copper instead of tin. My theory is that the Op is the raw power of all sentience. In other words is a huge pool of, for lack of a better word, "psychic" energies within all things and that humans that can control the placement of these "psychic" energies can do what we call "channeling". This theory would concur with a channeller's ability to be empathetic with objects and humans and their ability to only control forces within their grasp. This is why we don't suddenly find Rand harnessing quasars and black holes all over the place. Althoguh this idea may seemed far-fetched in a reality with likeness to our own it is a much more real possibility in the WoT world. For example, Perrin's ability to communicate with wolves. The most plausible explanation would be that Perrin has discovered a latent psychic potential within all humans. But this brings up the point of the change in color of a "Wolfbrother's" eyes. My theory is that since the optic nerves are so closely related to the brain a change like being able to talk using one's own energies might effect them in some unknown way. Vague, I know, but explanatory.<br /><br />This also explains two other factors of the one power. Shai'tan's (ST) taint on saidar and why male channelers go mad and why opening one's self to the OP results in ecstasy. ST's taint can be explained as modifying the "psychic" energies of that which bind him in (quoting) "much the same way a wall connects the two neighboring rooms." By damaging one part of the energy from which all comes he damages everything, not meaning just males who can channel. This brings up another point. My belief is that the OP was not so divided as we thought and that the barrier between saidar and said are small. This would explain the lack of powerful channeller's since the Age of Legends. Of course one can summise that because the OP is so connected to the brain hat this "taint" ensues madness because of the damaging of one's own thought, which basicly is the "psychic" energies they emit.<br /><br />Now about the near-orgasmic pleasure a person gets from touching the OP. The only idea that really comes to mind is admitting to one's own nature. By being able to execute an action of your own being which dates back to the first dawning of humans and which has been engrained in your ancestory infinate times makes one feel good. It's like the feeling of returning to the house you grew up in and loved a thousand fold. Okay, probably not the best example but damn close.<br /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> What constitutes as the one power is definitely a deep philosophical question.  I always thought of it as the manipulation of whats around you, like the Force in Star Wars.  There was a difference in how this age (third) channels, with weaves, and how they did it in the Age of Legends, with webs, as Cyndane/Lanfear does in the last chapter.  She mentions the web of fire that melted away.  <br /><br />How the channeler uses the power is definitely a deep question, one I dont think there is an answer too, sorry<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-18 00:00:00
subject: Mat and the Seanchan -OR- Mat finds a New home.
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<p>It's great to read these theories, I couldn't resist but add my thoughts concerning the Seanchan---and my hero, Matrim Cauthon.<br /> <br />As of the end of WH, Mat has "kidnapped" his Daughter of the Nine Moons, Tuon.  He's once again stuck his hand into the bee hive, to be sure, and I laughed out loud (startling several people in the same room that I was reading in...non WoT fans...tsk, tsk) and gave RJ silent praise for finally putting one of Mat's Aelfinn prophecies into fruition.  It was about time, but RJ ever has been the slowly plodding type of writer (which I adore).<br /><br />Now, my theories relating to the Seanchan and Mat...and therefore, the 'bloody' Dragon Reborn:<br /> <br />1) The Seanchan, while mostly portraid as an enemy nation, and rightly so, seem to be much like the Aiel; that is, a super-strength nation that hasn't been 'softened' over the course of time.  They've taken great pains to stay true to the task in being prepared for the Last Battle.  In several instances in the books, certain Seanchan think/speak about the Return being an effort (I'm paraphrasing--and interpreting Seanchan dogma, okay) to bring order to those that have forgotten their heritage (or, if you prefer, to reclaim the lands that were stolen from Artur Hawkwing's descendants).  They, the Seanchan, don't just arrive in the main continent of Randland and start slaughtering everyone.  No, they secure their positions, make everyone take oaths of fealty to...the Empress (?) and then allow all (mostly all anyway---female channelers caught become damane (leashed ones), while male channelers are historically killed) to go about their business.  They seem to be doing exactly what Rand is wanting to do: creating order and peace so everyone can prepare for the real task close at hand...Tarmon Gai'don.  Rand doesn't especially like them, but then again, the people he is ruling (with threats & an Aiel super-force backing him) aren't always so pleased with his 'forced peace' either.<br /><br />2) Although I can't remember which book, I believe one of the Prophecies of the Dragon state that half of the land will be bound to Rand (north and east??), while someone else shall bind the other half to themselves.  I couldn't readily find the actual quote (sorry), but my point is this:  the Seanchan are here to stay and will eventually be "neutralized" as an enemy nation, and become more of an ally in the Last Battle.  (The Matrim Cauthon factor, see below.)<br /><br />3) Now, since TSR, everyone knows that Mat will be tied to the Seanchan via TDoTNM.  He's fated to marry her, which doesn't necessarily bind him to the Seanchan...but new information given in WH has invigorated my theory.  By the end of WH, Matrim has begun his escape from Seanchan-controlled Ebou Dar, accompanied by Bayle Domon, his lover/master Egeanin, her two defecting damane, Renna and Seta, and their two leashed Aes Sedai (Edesina and...Tessi??), Juilin and Thera, old man Noal (Jaim Farstrider!?), and finally a gagged and bound Tuon, and her so'jhin, Selucia---I could have just said, "Mat and company," but bare with me...<br /><br />...So here's Mat, orchestrating another hair-raising escape.  Whether he will or not, I'll leave for another post, but when has Mat's plans ever fully gotten him away from the heart of the action?  Anyway, he's got Tuon and the means to prove that sul'dam (leash holders) can actually channel (the reason why Renna and Seta want to escape, unless I'm mistaken).  Tuon is also a sul'dam, though she's special in her own right.  It almost goes without saying that she's about to find out this grand secret, and the implications that it means to the Seanchan nation.  I can't believe that the Seanchan will be long delayed from going on a high-scale hunt to find TDoTNM's kidnappers, but Beslan's great revolt scheme might hinder them awhile.  Lest you think that's all Mat has stacked against him (the whole friggin' Seanchan Corenne ["The Return"]), Tuon's Soe'feia (Truthspeaker), Anath, is much thought to be Semirhage.  Talk about the straw that broke the camel's back!<br /><br />(Me thinks Matrim will get away long enough to free most of his "company", clue Tuon in on the sul'dam super-secret (and most likely the both of them will really fall in love---not just married because of a decree of fate), and become re-united with The Band of the Red Hand before the Seanchan catch him again.  A special "fight" between him and Semirhage would certainly be entertaining, though it will unlikely happen until Mat has been caught and has to prove himself (and also escape a death sentence for "laying hands" on TDoTNM) by revealing that they, the Seanchan nation, has been led astray by one of the Forsaken.  Add to this his knowledge of the sul'dam secret that he is mostly certainly going to drop on the Seanchan hierarchy like a bomb, and he's bound--quite possibly in a literal way--to be that special 'someone(s)' that binds the west and south nations to them---contrasting Rand, yet still bringing peace and order before Tarmon Gai'don.)<br /><br />4th)  (And my final point.  Sorry I'm so long-winded, but my very first post might as well be fully thought-out, hehe.) As if my other three points weren't enough, I figured that I'd add the creme de la creme:  in TPoD, Rand once again goes head to head with the Seanchan forces, led by their Captain-General, Kennar Miraj, much renowned as one of the Seanchan's best (if not the best) military leaders the Seanchan have.  Or I should say 'had', as Miraj was killed when Rand sent huge amounts of lightning among both the Ever Victorious Army and his own, using the 'broken' Callandor.  How convenient it is...to have the Seanchan's best military strategist die, while the bloody Lord Matrim Cauthon sits in Ebou Dar, the newest and (seemingly) most secured outpost the Seanchan have, nursing his broken leg and playing pet to the Queen of Ebou Dar.  Mat's much self-despised ta'veren abilities have always placed him within the heart of danger, inexorably leading him to the highest role he must play for the hope of mankind to win the Last Battle.  Rand al'Thor knew what The Wheel willed of him by the end of TEoTW.  For Perrin, it took awhile longer, but he's almost surely the King of the newly ressurrected Manetheren---and a wolfbrother besides, which has its own implications (remember Dumai's Wells?) within the Last Battle.  And Mat, the trickster?  It's taken 9 books (and beyond) to get him to his most profound station in life, but Mat ever has been one to shirk his duties....<br />...he must forego most of his accustomed freedoms (give up half the light of the world???) and become bound to the Seanchan as their new Captain-General and lead the Ever Victorious Army (sounds like a "super-sized" version of The Band of the Red Hand...'costs only an extra 39 cents!!' hehe) against the Shadow upon the shoals of Shayol Ghul.  Seem far-fetched?  Maybe.  It seems to me that the Seanchan, a huge force to give one due pause---has a higher role to play in RJ's masterpiece.  I'd be much surprised if Mat---notoriously against his own free will---doesn't become a driving force behind them.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Kudos on a theory well done.  I can just see Rj going after this topic.<br /><br />The thing is though, that binding the north south east and west is about Rand <br /><br />"and he shall bind the north to the east, and the south to the west." (not exact quote, but close enough)<br /><br />I think the Seanchan prophecy of him having to bow to the Crystal Throne is part of this binding. I think this bowing is more circumspect and more courtesy to bowing in respect to Tuon.<br /><br />Really, all I have to say is, i hope Tuon grows some hair!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-20 00:00:00
subject: Tuon's the Daughter
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<p>It's Tuon because:<br /><br />1. It said so in <i>Winter's Heart</i>.<br />2. She's only like two years younger than Mat.<br />3. It said so in <i>Winter's Heart</i>.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Straght-forward, simple, and correct.  The argument is valid, true, and without fallacy.  I would have to say that that this is an unarguable argument.  Case closed. <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-20 00:00:00
subject: Mike vs. Pento
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<p>My theory is that Mike and Pento are the same person. Think about it, Pento comes in threatens us with porn pop-up advertisements and other such threatening changes. Mike comes in and saves the day and we all applaud Mike. So could Mike in a desperate draw for attention be playing a one-man show of good cop/bad cop? <br /></p><p><b>Pento McGreno says:</b> *smirks* Hell, no. Mike isn't creative enough to be me. <img src="images/wink.gif" /></p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> Now that you mention it, mike returned just after Pento announced that porn would be added.  Freaky!  *looks around suspiciously* <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/cool.gif" border="0" /></p><p><b>Bad Ash says:</b> Nah...don't buy it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2001-02-20 00:00:00
subject: Tarmon Gai'don Has Already Begun
body:
<p>I've been doing a lot of thinking about the 'Last Battle', and brushing up a bit on the Karaethon Cycle. I don't think the Last Battle is gonna be a big huge war like the Trolloc wars only bigger, with more meanies and more One Power battles. Why? Because I think the Last Battle has been going on since book 1. Think about it...  What have all the main characters been doing right from the beginning? They have been fighting the Dark One and his minions, trying to fulfill the prophesies. Didn't the Cycle say that the Horn will be there for the last battle? Well, it is there, and already blown too. Sure, the books aren't the usual idea of a 'battle' which we all think of as some pitched struggle between two sides, people dead and dying all over the battlefield. Then again, what does happen in the books isn't so different. Only the battlefield is the entire world, and only a few people know they are fighting. Not only does this make for an interesting ending in the literary sense, it also makes some logical sense. All the main characters have been battling the Shadow is some way or another since the beginning, and although (as I mentioned above) the plot doesn't fit the flow of what one would normally consider a 'battle,' it seems that (if you look at everything from an all-encompassing perspective) the books have outlined a pretty complex and intense battle, wouldn't you agree?<br /><br />In conclusion, the Last Battle may well end with a huge Trolloc Wars-style battle, but Tarmon Gai'don started on Winternight if not the day Rand was born (or perhaps at the Eye, really you can pick and choose cause they all fit). All the elements are present, and the prophesies (as far as we know) don't actually say 'the last battle will begin when...' and the only thing that mentions anything in a time-related sense to the last battle is the presence of the Horn. The Horn which has already been found AND blown. It was said to be present during the last battle, and it is more certainly present.<br /><br />Well, that is enough of ranting for me, just thought I should get that off my chest to let everyone know what I think.</p><p><b>Raserei says:</b> The fact that the horn is already found doesn't nece3ssarily mean that the last battle has begun.  Also, when Min views Rand and his swirling butterflies, she has the tone of the future, like its gfoing to happen, not like it's already begin.  Good try though.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


