# w_theory

created: 2003-12-16 14:43:34
subject: Death of the Seal thieves
body:
<p><b> I. Who killed the thieves? </b><br /><br />In CoT, prologue, occur two attempts of the Shadow to rob the seals (for further information read Light in the Night&#8217;s &amp; Weird Harold&#8217;s theory &#8220;Letters and Seals&#8221; ).<br />The first time in Bashere&#8217;s camp, then in Dobraine&#8217;s chambers.<br /><br />Both times the Dark Friends thieves don&#8217;t survive it. <br />I believe that once again the Shadow&#8217;s top assassin Slayer killed them.<br /><br /><b> II. The first attempt </b><br /><br />In CoT, prologue, pg.69, Deira Bashere tells her husband that she surprised &#8220;two strange men ransacking our tent. They drew daggers, so naturally, I hit one of them with a chair and stabbed the other.&#8221; Then the pair fled through a slit they had made in the rear of the tent. <br /><br />Very quickly after that Tumad, a horsman under Bashere, reports that the two men were found: <br />&#8220;&#8216;They were dead, my Lord, just out side the camp. Each got one thrust with a narrow blade.&#8217; He stabbed a finger at the base of his skull, just behind the ear. &#8216;It had to be more than one did it, unless he was faster than a rock viper.&#8217;&#8221;<br /><br />It&#8217;s unlikely that there were indeed more DF to silence these two because also these DF could be easily snatched.<br /><br />Furthermore the killing was probably a too precise work for mere DF. <br />The thieves were armed with daggers and thus they had fought. They could suspect that a failure would have deadly consequences for them.  <br /><br />Finally there is apparently no sign of these men. How could they vanish such quickly?<br /><br />Therefore I believe it was indeed one competent person who killed the thieves.<br /><br />Tumad&#8217;s comment that this person must be faster than a rock viper leads some people to the idea that it was a Myrddraal, maybe even Shaidar Haran. <br />The Guide says Myrddraal &#8220;move with sinuous grace beyond the capability of any human, and strike with the speed of a serpent&#8221; (BWB, &#8220;Myrddraal&#8221; ).<br />Plus, they can vanish fast in the shadows.<br /><br />Against this view speaks the following:<br /><br />Normally Myrddraal use their eyeless gaze to create fear and kill their victim then. <br />We on the other hand know that the thieves were killed from behind, with a precise thrust just behind the ear. <br />That would mean the Myrddraal had voluntary not used his &#8220;most potent weapon&#8221; (BWB, &#8220;Myrddraal&#8221; ). Not likely.<br /><br />The next point is that the thieves were killed with a narrow blade, i.e. a dagger.<br />But Myrddraal use swords and these &#8220;Myrddraal swords are very specialized weapons&#8221; (BWB, &#8220;Myrddraal&#8221; ). <br />They are forged at Thakan'dar and &#8220;the smallest wound from any of these corrupted blades brings death to the victim; the wounds fester and will not heal without the aid of the One Power&#8221; (BWB, &#8220;Myrddraal&#8221; ). <br /><br />Why caring to make a difficult thrust behind the ear, if a heavy sword strike would create a wound that kills the vicitm?<br /><br />Besides, Tumad doesn&#8217;t says that the dead bodies show such a special wound though that would be an important clue. As Borderlanders the men surely know these evidences for Myrddraal.<br />Especially since Bashere thinks in CoT, prologue, pg.67, about his men that &#8220;they had all been on campaign before.&#8221; Certainly they also were in the Blight and fought Myrddraal. <br /><br />Against SH in peticular speaks that he had probably used his black fire to kill the thieves.<br /><br />Besides, so far in the series SH has only cared to keep the Forsaken in line and not about mere DF.<br /><br />Instead of that I believe the killer was the Shadow&#8217;s assassin Slayer. <br /><br />We know that Moridin is momentary his patron and it seems obviously that he, as the Nae&#8217;blis, was involved in this Shadow&#8217;s plot.  <br /><br />Slayer is the perfect man for this job because via TAR he can appear and disappear suddenly wherever and whenever he wants.<br />In WH, ch.22, pg.459, he remembers how he killed the two BA in the Stone of Tear and &#8220;the incredulity on their faces when he appeared out of thin air.&#8221;<br />We also see in this scene that Slayer likes to use two daggers simultaneously . <br /><br />In my view Slayer killed the the thieves in a similiar way. <br />He appeared directly behind them and could kill them without any chance of defend for them. After his deed Slayer went back to TAR and Bashere&#8217;s men couldn&#8217;t find the killer.<br /><br />Note that Slayer hasn&#8217;t to be fast as a rock viper to do that, only Tumad concludes that because of course he can&#8217;t imagine that someone could suddenly appear out of thin air.<br /><br />That view supports the idea that Slayer can see the real world from TAR and/or can find people due TAR.Thus he can appear directly before or behind his victims.<br /><br /><b> III. The second attempt </b><br /><br />If Slayer was the killer in the first attempt, it makes sense that he was involved in the second stealing attempt in Dobraine&#8217;s chambers, too.<br /><br />In CoT, prologue, pg.89, it is said that &#8220;Dobraine himself lay motionless on a litter in the middle of the large room, his head still attached to his body but his eyes closed and a drying sheet of blood, from a long cut in his scalp, across his still features. [&#8230;] Dobraine did not appear to be breathing, and there were bloodstained gashes in the chest of his coat, with its thin stripes of color that marched down to his knees. Beside the litter, a dark blot larger than a man&#8217;s body marred the green-and-yellow Tairen maze of the fringed carpet.&#8221; <br /><br />Then the thieves are described: &#8220;two other men lay sprawled on the floor, one with death-glazed eyes gazing at the ceiling, the other on his side, an ivory knife hilt sticking up from his ribs where the blade had surely reached his heart. Short, pale-skinned Cairhienin, both wore the livery of palace servants, but a servant never carried the long, wooden-handled dagger that lay beside each corpse.&#8221;<br /><br />A bit later the Aes Sedai Samitsu examines Dobraine: &#8220;only, except for the gash in his scalp, Dobraine&#8217;s wounds were all serious, four deep punctures in his lungs, two of them gashing the heart as well.&#8221;<br /><br />The thieves were killed and almost Dobraine, too. <br />I believe the following occurred. <br />Dobraine surprised the thieves when they were searching the seal in his chamber. <br />They stabbed Dobraine several times so that he fell on the carpet where the large dark blot is. <br /><br />Note that no specific weapon of Dobraine is mentioned in his near. <br />It could be that the ivory knife is from Dobraine but it&#8217;s not likely that he had a chance to kill two men but nevertheless dies almost himself because of his perilous wounds. <br />Therefore Dobraine wasn&#8217;t the one who killed the thieves.<br /><br />The thieves thought Dobraine was dead and continued their search, apparently unsuccessful. <br />When it was clear that they wouldn&#8217;t find the seal Slayer appeared like in the first attempt and killed the DF, so that no one got the chance to question them.<br /><br />As said one thieves has still a blade in his ribs and in WH, ch.22, pg.459, we learn from Slayer&#8217;s POV that he likes to kill in this way, &#8220;soon they stopped twitching when he thrust a blade between ribs.&#8221;<br /><br />Who else could have killed the DF in Dobraine&#8217;s chamber and leave again without any problems? Surely not any other DF.<br /><br />Probably Slayer left one dagger because he had to vanish quickly before other people noticed what happened.<br /><br />After Slayer disappeared Dobraine managed to crawl onto the litter. <br />I expect that it&#8217;s possible that Dobraine saw Slayer, but we have to RAFO.<br /><br /><b> IV. Some connected points </b><br /><br />That raises some questions.<br /><br />Why didn&#8217;t the Shadow send Slayer (who was anyway in the near) or a Gray man or a Forsaken to search the seals? <br /><br />I believe these attempts were only first tries to test Rand&#8217;s defense. <br />Furthermore the Shadow could not be sure where the seals are, thus it was quite risky and only DF were used for the searching.    <br /><br />Was the Shadow really not successful in stealing the seals?<br />Bashere&#8217;s seal was obviously not robbed, we see that from his POV shortly after the attempt.<br /><br />What about a seal in Dobraine&#8217;s chambers, maybe the thieves found it and Slayer took it.<br />Rand&#8217;s reaction in CoT, ch.24, pg.558, when he hears the story from Bashere shows that the Shadow wasn&#8217;t successful. <br />He says: &#8220;&#8217;Did you just come to see that Logain reached me safely, Bashere, or to tell me somebody stabbed Dobraine? Or do you have an urgent task for me, too?&#8217;&#8221;. <br />And thinks: &#8220;The seals on the Dark One&#8217;s prison on one hand, Taim splitting the Asha&#8217;man on the other. Was the seventh seal already broken? Was the Shadow beginning the opening moves of the Last Battle?&#8221;.<br /><br />Rand is angry but only concerned if the seventh seal is already broken (which Nynaeve and Elayne found and which is indeed broken), not the other seals. <br />Therefore it is clear that Rand&#8217;s two seals are still in his hands and save. <br /><br />Finally I want to point out another interesting detail that attracted my attention.<br />In the second attempt it is said that an <i> ivory </i> knife hilt sticking up from the ribs of one of the thieves.<br /><br />Way back in EotW, ch.33, pg.510, also the DF assassin Mili Skane (now &#8220;Lady Shiaine&#8221; ) uses a dagger which &#8220;looked ordinary, if ornate, with a plae ivory hilt and a narrow, gleaming blade.&#8221;<br /><br />Finally we still have an undetected male DF among the Sea Folk as we see at the DF meeting in TGH, prologue. <br />In ACoS, ch.34, pg.596, when Rand visits the Sea Folk, he sees a Sea Folk man who &#8220;stepped out from the crew, in baggy green silk breeches and with an ivory-hilted sword and dagger thrust behind his sash.&#8221;<br />Later we learn that this is Moad, Harine&#8217;s Swordmaster.<br />Perhaps he is our man?<br /><br />A dagger with an ivory hilt could be a symbol for assassins of the Shadow or DF.<br />Of course it could be just coincidence but we should look for such daggers with an ivory hilt in the future.<br /><br /><b> V. Conclusion: It was Slayer </b><br /><br />Most likely Slayer killed the seal thieves in both stealing attempts.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-18 22:56:40
subject: The Answer to all of the Riddles.
body:
<p>Here you have it, the theory to end all theories, the theory to show how the series will end and tie up some of the plot lines.<br /><br />Rand, on an excursion to a portal world, just for old time's sake, finds an alternate reality where Moiraine just pushed Lanfear through the Finn Doorway and didn't get sucked in herself. Rand then takes her back to the &quot;real&quot; world. Rand is happy because he can trust Moiraine. <br /><br />Moiraine tells Rand that she is now a psychic, like Min only better, and tells him to go kneel to the Seanchan.<br /><br />Rand goes over to Seanchan and kneels to the Empress, may she live forever, and then flips over her chair, or rather Crystal Throne, tosses on a quick mask of mirrors and orders everyone to jaunt on over to the Westlands and help out this &quot;so-called Dragon&quot; take down a few people. Rand then gets the Seanchan military backing that he so sorely needs. <br /><br />Perrin runs over to Rand and asks for some help in getting Faile back. Against his better judgment (He doesn't want his wives yelling at him for no apparent reason, after all), he sends the Seanchan to help out Perrin. They defeat the Shaido and find Faile with her favorite Shaido man, his name isn't important because he's Shaido, Perrin gets angry, What's-his-face from the Shaido gets angry at Faile for not telling him she's married and kills her. Perrin kills what&#8217;s-his-face and then goes around wearing white in mourning. He turns to Berelain who &quot;comforts&quot; him, just like Min does with Rand, and they run on over to Mayene, where Berelain keeps ruling and Perrin is turned into her lackey who just pounds metal into things all day. Perrin is then effectively phased out.<br /><br />Mat and his crew find Lan walking around with Nynaeve and together stroll down to the Tower of Ghenjei. They find a way in (with fire), they walk in (with courage) and then Tuon reveals her lovely singing voice and only afterwards, when they are deafened, do they realize that this is just Isam/Luc's hiding place, they kill him and Lan grins. Nynaeve and Lan go to the Blight to retake Malkier and start a rather large family. Mat just goes off and invents gunpowder so as to kill Aludra for her useless &quot;bellfounder&quot; riddle. He then fades into mediocrity.<br /><br />Rand, after not appearing for a while, gets the news that he is ultra fertile and has impregnated all three of his wives with multiple children for each. He gets scared (not sure he can be a father to such a large family) and goes off to Shayol Ghul to fight the Dark One. When there, he meets Asmodean who tells him that he is really.....get this, DEMANDRED! Rand starts pummeling him for spawning such ideas as Taimandred and so on. Demandred gets scared and tells him that, to defeat the Dark One, Rand has but to destroy the most evil, conniving, deceitful, irresistible source of death and destruction and lethargy and gluttony ever. Demandred then disappears in a puff of smoke, as his disguise has been revealed, and we all realize that he was really a flamingo who got delusions of grandeur.<br /><br />Rand ponders Demandred the flamingo's cryptic message for a while, and, after reading many books in his libraries, he comes across Master Fel's books again. He reads them, finds an intriguing book on mice, cookies, and milk (you know what I'm talking about), and realizes what Demandred was telling him. He then goes to the Randland tabloids and sells some incriminating secrets about a certain organization. He gets a copy of the tabloids and takes it to the Dark One in Shayol Ghul, he goes inside the Bore, and shows this article to the Dark One, the Dark One screams out in capital letters and cowers in a corner. Rand then calls in SWAT support (Sharans, they had to do something!) and sends them to liberate the child laborers the DO had at work. Rand hits a button behind the cowering and quivering Dark One and the entire exterior of Shayol Ghul falls away to reveal a factory. This factory produced the most tempting evil ever to exist, Girl Scout Cookies. Rand stockpiles a few boxes for his own and then goes back to say goodbye to the Dark One, or rather, the Troop Leader. He looks around for a while and, after finding nothing, decides that the Dark One must have vanished, because the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.<br /><br />With everything else resolved, the remaining Forsaken, Whitecloaks, and whoever else is left ends the scene with a dance number from RENT. Then the scene closes and fades to black. Padan Fain steps out of the shadows and starts mumbling something about being left out of everything after being so influential to the story, and is eaten by a Demandred, the flamingo.<br /><br /><br />And there you have it, the completely logical ending of the series. My work here is done. Go in peace.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> HA! LOL! I found this rather amusing! Hey, it could all happen. In a Portal Stone World <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smile.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-18 23:06:57
subject: Where are the Whitecloaks headed?
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<p>We know that the remaining Whitecloaks have managed to leave Amador and regroup. <br /><br /><b>The Children of the Light</b><br /><br />Referring to himself, Valda said: <br /><br />&#8220;He, on the other hand, had over nine thousand of the Children gathered around him.  A man who saw clearly could make much of that in times like these.&#8221;<br /><br />Nine thousand Children of the Light, along with all ten Lord Captains that were still alive and the High Inquisitor Asunawa constituted the vast majority of all remaining Whitecloaks.<br /><br />But where are they headed?  I believe that it can be derived through a process of elimination from Valda&#8217;s conversation with Asunawa.<br /><br /><b>Andor?</b><br /><br />It is well known to readers that the Whitecloaks had designs upon Andor, planning to use Galad somehow in the conflict.  However, a change of events has altered that plan drastically, according to Valda&#8217;s POV.<br />***<br />&#8220;Morgase was dead, or else a servant to some Seanchan. [&#8230;] Dead, or a servant, she was lost to him, and more importantly by far, hisp lans for Andor were lost.  Galadedrid had gone from a useful lever to just another young officer&#8230;&#8221;<br />[&#8230;]<br />But Valda was a pragmatic man.  The past was the past.  New plans had replaced Andor.<br />***<br />I believe this shows that Andor is decidedly out of the question.<br /><br /><b>Murandy?</b><br /><br />When Valda goes to bring Asunawa to remind him of their departure, Asunawa begins again to discuss where they should go, though it is already decided. <br />***<br />&#8220;I have reports of an Andoran army in Murandy, my son,&#8221; Asunawa said.  &#8220;Deep in Murandy perhaps.&#8221;<br /><br />&#8220;Murandy is a long way from here,&#8221; Valda said as though he did not recognize an old argument starting anew.  An argument that Ausnawa often seemed to forget he had already lost.<br />***<br />Asunawa argues for Murandy, but Valda believes Asunawa forgets that he lost the argument before.  Thus, they will most likely not go to Murandy.<br /><br /><b>Altara or Tarabon?</b><br /><br />Asunawa again tried to argue with Valda.<br />***<br />&#8220;Not so far if we move east, across Altara, my son, across the north of Altara.  The Seanchan cannot have moved far from Ebou Dar yet.&#8221;<br /><br />Spreading his hands to catch the hearthfire&#8217;s small warmth, Valda sighed.  They had spread like a plague in Tarabon, and here in Amadicia.  Why did the man think Altara was different?<br />***<br /><br />Obviously, Valda believes that Altara is not safe to travel.  Also, this rules out Tarabon, but that was not a likely option anyhow due to geographical realities.<br /><br /><b>Where to then?</b><br /><br />Of course Amadicia is ruled out, with Tarabon, Altara, Murandy, and Andor joining the list.  Looking at a map, we can see that if we role those out, the only way to go is north.<br /><br />What could be their purpose due north?  Perhaps not knowing the situation in Ghealdan, they believe their army could present some military pressure to the throne.  I am not sure exactly what their probe north would do.   However, at a time immediately following the invasion by the Seanchan and takeover of the Fortress of Light, one would think Valda would be inclined to somehow ponder upon defeating Rand perhaps by learning how the Seanchan tame the damane.<br /><br />***<br />With enough tame witches, he could drive al&#8217;Thor out of Andor, out of Illian and everywhere else he had settled like the Shadow itself.  He could better Hawkwing himself!<br />***<br /><br />What does this mean?  Is he looking to go towards Emond&#8217;s Field perhaps to try to get at Rand and copany? Perhaps.  Who knows?  The only thing for sure that I can extricate from this is that he is headed due north.<br /><br />Flame at it.<br /><br /><br />~Finger of the Windbiter~</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Nicely done. I think that your evidence is rather indisputable. It also fits with my inclination of how Perrin will get Faile back. The Whitecloaks will go north, run into the Shaido, and lose, but in the confusion, Perrin strikes, and rescues all of them. Galad gets caught up with them, and recognizes Morgase. This also bring Galad and Berelain together. But that's just my inclination. Nice theory.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-19 05:22:19
subject: Dreams against Good Aes Sedai
body:
<p>This theory is short, but it has good solid merit.  Egwene has a dream about Seanchan collaring Aes Sedai (women wearing Great Serpent Rings) and forcing them to call lightnings upon the White Tower.  I've been thinking about this passage a bit.  Would it not be silly for the Seanchan to order an attack on the White Tower if they had already attacked it enough to take the Aes Sedai?<br /><br />So the big question is, where is there an available body of Aes Sedai for the Seanchan to capture, collar, and order to destroy the White Tower?  That one is easy, right at the front door of the White Tower.  Egwene's band of Aes Sedai are in just the right spot for the Seanchan to use them.<br /><br />Two things bring me to the conclusion that Egwene's party WILL be captured and used by the Seanchan, only to be released at some later stage, (either by Tuon's command at finding out just how powerful their Newly Captured Amyrlin (Egwene) is, or because Tuon's new husband (Mat) order's it done) to destroy the White Tower.<br /><br />Firstly, when Egwene is captured, she notices what she thinks is a huge bat flying over the city.  This could be only one of two things, a Dragkhar, or a Raken.  It stands to reason that if shadowspawn where seen flying over the White Tower, then the Black Ajah must truely have taken the city.  Since Robert Jordan would have told us of such a ground breaking event, we must assume Raken.  This means that Seanchan are in the vicinity.  If this is so, then they would hardly be wanting to conquer a city full of marath'damane before taking care of the ones without a solid wall surrounding them.<br /><br />Secondly, with Egwene now out of the way, the attack on the White Tower by Egwene's Aes sedai will surely fail.  Amyrlin-less they will be too busy trying to find her to think that another attempt to block off the other harbour with the Cuendillar trick will work.  Bryne was even skeptical about the attack on Tar Valon working.  There is only one army in the land now who seems to be able to conquer the unconquerable.  The Seanchan!!!  With a whole army of marath'damane recently collared, their forces would be significantly increased, far more than the White Tower could handle, especially with the internal squabbles.<br /><br />My theory is, that Egwene's army and Aes sedai will be captured, collared and ordered to destroy Tar Valon and the White Tower...for what happens after that, only RJ himself knows.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Very possible!! I think that Egwene will go crazy if she gets collared again. I think that this has a 60 % probability of happening.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-19 05:29:23
subject: Age before and origin of Aes Sedai
body:
<p>I was idly wondering and came up with this. It's entirely speculative so bear with me.<br /><br />I think that in the age before AoL everyone could channel. Then due to random mutations there came up a dominant allele for non-channeling. Since channeling would therefore have been recessive, non-channeling population figures would have increased slowly at first, then quite largely.<br /><br />At first, these folk who couldn't channel would have regarded as cripples really, and presumably they would have received some sort of charity type deal. Also I think that for a long time there would have been virtually no inter-breeding between channelers and non-channelers at first. <br /><br />As the non-channeling population increased they would have been &quot;protected&quot; by the channelers. Eventually because of the increasing non-channeling population versus the decreasing channeling one, coupled with the divide between them, and the expectation of being protected by and from the channelers, it is easy to see an Aes Sedai like group forming. In fact, Aes Sedai means &quot;those who serve&quot;, by performing the duties that everyone could do before, but now only they could, i.e. everything to do with the power. This would probably have been when a majority of ter'angreal were invented, and also those standing weaves that were mentioned.<br /><br />Technology would not have occured until the AoL because it would be ingrained into the social psyche of the non-channelers that they sponge off of the channelers as much as possible, and the channelers would have refined the OP powered stuff rather than invent new things not requiring the OP, as the concept of not using the OP would be still quite alien to them.<br /><br />This would have created the odd situation of all the channelers seeing themselves as &quot;better&quot; than non-channelers, yet they had a moral and social obligation the serve those they see as inferior to themselves. The only reason they would not have broken out of such a thing is because it would not have become a problem until channelers were vastly outnumbered by non-channelers.<br /><br />As was mentioned before this is entirely speculative. But I think it does tie up some ideas.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Interesting. I like the social responsibility factor in becoming &quot;Servants of All&quot; as well as the technology argument. Fairly well thought out. That would be an interesting question to put to RJ in the next interview.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-30 02:48:18
subject: Why Cuendillar Crumbles
body:
<p>My theory explains how the Seals on the Dark One&#8217;s prison can be weakening.<br /><br /><b>What do we know about the Seals?</b><br /><br />The Seals that are the focal points to the Sealing of the Bore are made of cuendillar. &#8220;Seven indestructible cuendillar disks, made with the One Power and marked with the seal of the Aes Sedai, were prepared to function as &#8216;focus points&#8217;.&#8221; (Robert Jordan&#8217;s The Wheel of Time). They were made prior to the attack on Shayol Ghul before the female Aes Sedai decided to take no part in the attack to reseal the Dark One in the Bore. <br /><br />In the chaos of the Breaking, the &#8220;surviving Aes Sedai scattered the seven cuendillar seals that held the Bore, lest one of the maddened Aes Sedai, or even one of the Shadowsworn, find them unprotected. Later, during the Trolloc Wars, those who held this knowledge were lost, and with them the location of the Seals.&#8221; (Robert Jordan&#8217;s The Wheel of Time).<br /><br /><br />Since Rand went to the Eye of the World, the Seals have been gradually found. Some, like the one at the Eye of the World, have been found already broken, others, such as the one Taim brought Rand, have been found intact. The one Elayne and Nynaeve found in Tanchico was found intact, but broke on the way to Salidar. When a Seal is about to break, it feels filthy and evil &#8220;Evil seemed to bathe her hand, stronger than ever, as if the Dark One really was trying to break through the cuendillar seal.&#8221; TFOH, Leavetakings.<br /><br />Interestingly, the Seal at the Eye was found broken, yet when Lan tried to cut it, his blade broke. However, Morvrin broke one fragment of the Tanchico Seal with her hands in TFOH.<br /><br /><b>What do we know of cuendillar?</b><br /><br />Until Egwene rediscovered how, &#8220;no one has been able to make cuendillar since the Age of Legends. And even then it was made only for the greatest purpose. Once made, nothing can break it. Not the One Power itself wielded by the greatest Aes Sedai who ever lived aided by the most powerful sa&#8217;angreal ever made. Any power directed against it only makes it stronger.&#8221; TEOTW, There Is Neither Beginning Nor End.<br /><br />Cuendillar starts out as an object made of iron. It is then set in a close net woven of Earth, Fire and Air and then a second weave of Earth and Fire penetrates each net to touch the object, which slowly turns into white cuendillar. (Crossroads of Twilight, Secrets). (Unless the channeller is very strong, this is a tedious process).<br /><br /><b>How can the cuendillar Seals be crumbling?</b><br /><br />Since cuendillar is made with the One Power, and can&#8217;t be broken by using force on it, perhaps the reverse is true. <br /><br />My theory is that cuendillar is weakened when the One Power is withdrawn or absorbed out of it, and this is why the Seals are crumbling.<br /><br />The Dark One is the only being with the skill, strength and motivation to do this. He can feel the Seals (the focus points) from within his prison and has gradually absorbed the One Power out of five of them in turn.<br /><br />The feel of evil sense while the Seals are weakening, but not afterwards supports this. &#8220;It (the Seal) was whole when we put it in the purse&#8221; said Nynaeve in TFOH, To Teach and To Learn. &#8220;We didn&#8217;t look at it,&#8221; Elayne said breathlessly, &#8220;or touch it more than we had to. It felt filthy, evil.&#8221; It no longer did.&#8221; TFOH, To Teach and To Learn.<br /><br />The feel of evil as the Seal weakens, is the feel of the Dark One absorbing the One Power. However, once the Seal breaks the feeling of evil is gone. Therefore the feeling of evil was not the feel of the Dark One in his prison in the Bore, because that would have remained in the fragments and so far in the books has only been felt in the Bore. It was the feel of the Dark One doing something to the Seal &#8211; actively weakening it. Weakening it by absorbing the One Power out of it. And cuendillar crumbles&#8230;.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-30 02:53:30
subject: Why Moridin helped Rand in Shadar Logoth.
body:
<p>Why did Moridin help Rand in Shadar Logoth?<br />The answer to the question is &#8220;All would serve him before the end&#8221;, PoD, Chapter 2, Unweaving.<br /><br />Moridin is trying to make all Forsaken alive serve him. No matter when Ishamael was back, there were two alliances after Asmodean, Lanfear, Moghedien and Rahvin disappeared or died.<br />Demandred, Mesaana and Semirhage had their alliance. Sammael and Graendal was another team.<br />But at the same time there were two other Forsakens that came back to life, Aginor and Balthamel. They were unknown to all others but Shaidar Haran and the Great Lord. The &#8216;gars served SH.<br /><br />Whenever Ishamael was resurrected as Moridin, he started to bring in his &#8220;servants&#8221;. SH and Moridin are kind of equals, while the other Forsakens are lower in rank compared to SH. And SH is kind of doing the dirty job for Moridin. For example, SH brings Moghedien to Moridin. SH follows Moghedien and Cyndane to Graendal, bringing her to Moridin. I think the purpose of SH was to help Moridin bring in the Forsakens under his control. I don&#180;t think the Forsakens would have obeyed a new guy called Moridin.<br />The two unknown, Aran&#8217;gar and Osan&#8217;gar, served SH, but... PoD, Chapter 2, Unweaving, Moridin POV: &#8220;In all three places (Tar Valon, Salidar, al&#8217;Thor) he had eyes, some that did not know they served him. All would serve him before the end.&#8221;<br />SH had sent Aran&#8217;gar to Salidar, and Osan&#8217;gar had been sent to watch al&#8217;Thor. They were the eyes in Salidar and at al&#8217;Thor, and they did not know they served as Moridin&#180;s eyes. Because what SH knows, I assume Moridin knows as well.<br />So Aran&#8217;gar and Osan&#8217;gar were the first to serve Moridin (but without their knowledge to begin with). That&#180;s two Forsaken under Moridin&#180;s control.<br /><br />Lanfear somehow escaped from the Aelfinns and Eelfinns world. But she ended up mindtrapped, under Moridin&#180;s control. That&#8217;s three.<br /><br />Moghedien, captured in Salidar, was released by Aran&#8217;gar (who served Moridin) and summoned to Shayol Ghul. She became mindtrapped. SH brought her to Moridin, who held her cour&#8217;souvra. Moghedien serves Moridin. That&#8217;s four.<br /><br />Now, back to the main question: Why did Moridin help Rand in Shadar Logoth.<br /><br />If Sammael was killed, Graendal would stand alone. Once Sammael was out of the picture, Moridin sent Cyndane and Moghedien to Arad Doman to pay Graendal a visit. He also sent SH in case Graendal would not listen. Graendal was brought to Moridin. That&#8217;s five...<br />If Sammael would have killed Rand instead, Sammael and Graendal still would have had their kind of cooperating. And there could have been a risk that Sammael, Graendal, Demandred, Mesaana and Semirhage could have started an even bigger alliance, of a total number of five.<br />So it was better letting Sammael die. When Moridin had Aran&#8217;gar, Osan&#8217;gar, Cyndane, Moghedien and Graendal under his control, he had not only &#8220;detroyed&#8221; the Sammael/Graendal-pact, but also outnumbered Demandred, Mesaana and Semirhage.<br /><br />&quot;All would serve him before the end&quot;<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2003-12-30 02:57:09
subject: Slayer vs. Graendal
body:
<p><b> I. A never-ending discussion </b><br /><br />The identity of Asmodean&#8217;s killer and the exact circumstances of his death are discussed till today. <br />Although some people believe it, RJ never stated explicitly who the killer was; especially he did not say that it was Graendal.<br /><br />RJ told that it's possible to figure out the killer with the informations in the books till the killing scene. <br />In the later books he gave us additional clues. <br /><br />On the one hand the answer shall be &quot;intuitively obvious&quot; for the reader, but on the other hand RJ said only one fan wrote him the correct solution.<br />This already shows that RJ&#8217;s opinion of what is obvious and what is not may not be such meaningful. <br /><br />I want to confront the two, probably most likely candidates, Slayer and Graendal. <br />I&#8217;ll try to address the important points, why it's more likely that Slayer was the killer than Graendal. <br />I also want to pay attention to the &#8220;obvious criteria&#8221; in the following remarks.<br /><br /><b> II. The scene of Asmodean&#8217;s death </b> <br /><br />At first a short summary of Asmo&#8217;s death in TFoH, ch.56, with the most important points:<br /><br />It must be at least several hours after the battle against Rhavin in Caemlyn because Asmodean considers, &#8220;he was not sure what had happened that morning&#8221;. <br />Plus, we know from the beginning of ch.52 that the palace is secure again; the Aiel are hunting Shadowspawn only in the city.<br />Asmodean leaves Mat and Aviendha at the fountain. <br />He walks some time, then &#8220;he pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry&#8221;. <br />Asmodean goes &#8220;one step&#8221; into the room/corridor, then &#8220;he stopped, the blood draining from his face&#8221;. He says &#8220;You? No!&#8221; to his killer, but &#8220;the word still hung in the air when death took him&#8221;.  <br /><br />In LoC we learn that Asmodean&#8217;s body vanished (therefore Rand believes he fled), but that the DO knows that Asmo died. <br /><br />This leads to several conclusions: <br /><br />That Asmo enters the room is absolutely coincidental because he is new in the Caemlyn palace and thus doesn&#8217;t know where the pantry is. <br />It is possible that the small door leads indeed to the pantry, but it&#8217;s also likely that it leads to a different room or corridor. <br />Maybe we'll never know for sure.<br /><br />Asmodean at least recognizes his killer, and the person scares him very much; Asmo even panics. <br />The killer is able to kill Asmo very quickly and achieves that the corpse vanishes.<br /><br />Considering all this, the questions are who had a motive, whom is known by Asmo and would scares him so much, who had the abiltity to kill Asmo in this way and (never forget) who would be &#8220;obvious&#8221;.  <br /><br /><b> III. The two candidates </b><br /><br />As said I want to concentrate on Graendal and Slayer because I believe the other suspects are rather unlikely compared to this two.<br /><br /><b> a) Graendal </b><br /><br />Graendal can use the One Power, therefore she could enter and leave the palace without problems. <br />Asmodean knows her, but it is not very likely that she would scare him like that.<br /><br />She could have killed Asmo with balefire, that would explain the quickness of the death and why the body vanished.<br /><br />At first also several motives seem possible for Graendal.<br /><br />It was suggested that Graendal got an order from the DO to kill Asmo.    <br />In LoC, ch.6, Graendal states in a conversation with Sammael that she believes Asmo is dead (if the killer would do that such frankly is doubtful). <br /><br />Plus, Graendal thinks that &#8220;only she knew that the Great Lord had all but promised to name her Nae'blis, a promise sure to be fulfilled with al'Thor out of the way. She would be the most obedient of the Great Lord's servants. She would sow chaos till the harvest made Demandred's lungs explode.&#8221;<br /><br />This PoV makes clear that Graendal&#8217;s orders have rather to do with spreading chaos in Arad Doman than with any assassination. <br /><br />That the DO would name Graendal Nae&#8217;blis for killing Asmo is highly unlikely (and indeed Granedal did not become Nae&#8217;blis, even if she was the killer). <br /><br />Also from other Forsaken PoVs we got no indication that the DO gave an overall order to kill Asmo.<br /><br />Moreover, that the DO would just choose Graendal for this deed, a rather cautious Forsaken, makes not much sense.<br /><br />Even Graendal considers that &#8220;she served the Great Lord of the Dark, but she did not mean to die, not even for the Great Lord. She would live forever&#8221; (LoC, ch.6). <br />A very risky task like killing Rand&#8217;s teacher is nothing for Graendal.<br /><br />Finally in PoD, ch.12, SH admonishs Graendal:&#8220;The time when you could go on your own way has passed.&#8221;<br /><br />For these reason Graendal surely wasn&#8217;t ordered by the DO, although he probably told Graendal of Asmo&#8217;s death as he told it Demandred in LoC, prologue (or Demandred told it to Graendal).<br /><br />Besides, Graendal really wouldn&#8217;t be obvious in this case because how could we know in TFoH that only Graendal would get such an order? <br />Other Forsaken like Demandred, Sammael or Semirhage (who are of course more or less ruled out in the later books) would have been at least as likely as Graendal.  <br /><br />Other people say Graendal was still in the Caemlyn palace because she helped Rhavin. <br />As Moghedien tells Nynaeve in TFoH, ch.54: &#8220;Lanfear, Graendal, Rhavin and Sammael are plotting together&#8221;, and: &#8220;At least, he [Rand] will find Graendal and Rhavin&#8221; in Caemlyn. <br />Asmo surprised her there and thus it shall be obvious that Graendal was the killer (though Sammael would probably be as likely as her). <br /><br />But as said above the killing occured several hours after the battle, why should Graendal stay such long in the palace if she could simply Travel home? <br />Makes not much sense. <br /><br />It&#8217;s rather likely that Graendal never came to support Rhavin.<br />Especially the idea that the fish trap in TAR must have been from Graendal was disproved by RJ.  <br /><br />Another motive could be that Graendal returned to the palace to search for *angreal as she does in Illian after Sammael&#8217;s death.<br /><br />This is already unlikely because in Sammael&#8217;s case she knew that he had found stuff from the AoL. If she Traveled to Caemlyn, it had been pure luck if she found an *angreal.<br /><br />Besides, what is she doing in this room where Asmo dies? <br />She should be in Rhavin&#8217;s chambers if she searched for any *angreal.<br /><br />Another point is that it&#8217;s not understandable why Graendal wouldn&#8217;t use a Mask of Mirrows to disguise her face and body (but if she had a MoM Asmodean hadn&#8217;t be able to recognize her).<br /><br />Graendal wears a MoM when she and Sammael meet the Shaido in AcoS, ch.20.<br />She even uses a mask in her own palace as Lady Basene.<br />Why not when she makes a dangerous Travel to a place where several channelers are? <br />There is always the chance that e.g. Asmo would note her without her knowledge.<br /><br />Also people admit that Graendal had to hide her ability to channel if she was the killer. <br />If she killed Asmodean with balefire, she must have used either the True Power or inverted weaves otherwise e.g. Aviendha had felt saidar.<br /><br />It&#8217;s very doubtful that Graendal was prepared so good in time since Asmo was killed quickly. <br />After all Graendal could not know that Asmo would enter the room, it was by chance. <br />That means she was surely also surprised. <br />Therefore it seems unlikely that Graendal had been such fast.<br /><br />Furthermore, it&#8217;s of course an inconsistence if people say Graendal was careful enough to hide the OP or the balefire but not careful enough to disguise her appearance with a MoM.<br /><br />Some people believe that a shiver Asmo feels shortly before his death could indicate that he feels a channeling woman. <br />I can&#8217;t imagine that a male channeler can feel a female channeler through a wall and across a certain distance.  <br />Also it&#8217;s not clear why Graendal didn&#8217;t hide that, too. Or why Asmodean as a Forsaken doesn&#8217;t recognize this feeling as saidar.<br />For these reasons I disagree with this.<br /><br />Since Graendal is nevertheless the most popular choice in many theories, it&#8217;s also not really understandable why only one fan figured that how and why Graendal killed Asmo as RJ said.<br /><br />Finally, if indeed Graendal only met Asmo incidentally and killed him at this opportunity, it would be quite poor writing by RJ, not understandable why he kept it as a secret and not obvious at all.<br />In this case the killing had no real plot relevance besides that Asmo is dead. <br />Instead of that RJ could have written in the same manner that Asmo fell from stairs and broke his neck, or that he died in the Caemlyn battle, no one found his body. <br />It&#8217;s the same result.<br />That the motive of the killing would have no big relevance and is no real secret is hardly to believe.<br /><br />For all these reasons it's actually not very likely or obvious that Graendal was the killer.<br /><br /><b> b) Slayer </b><br /><br />Since WH, ch.22, we know that Slayer is the Shadow&#8217;s top hitman. He works for the Chosen, especially the Nae&#8217;blis Moridin, but also for &#8220;the Great Lord himself&#8221;. <br />He can use TAR to appear everywhere and so easily kill his victims. <br /><br />Therefore Slayer could have been in the room and Asmo could have recognize Slayer (also RJ confirmed that the Chosen know Slayer). <br /><br />It also explains Asmo&#8217;s panic better because he should know that it means death when he sees the assassin Slayer. <br />This panic is a parallel to Slayer&#8217;s description of the killing of two Black Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear, &#8220;the incredulity on their faces when he appeared out of thin air, the horror when they realized he had not come to save them&#8221;.<br /><br />It&#8217;s also possible that Asmo thought on the first view that Lan or Rand stands before him because Isam/Luc look a bit like them. <br />This would explain Asmodean&#8217;s last words quite nicely:&#8220;You [Lan/Rand]? No [it&#8217;s Slayer]!<br /><br />As said, Slayer assassinated e.g. the Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear, the Gray Man in the White Tower, (if you agree with my theory &#8220;Death of the Seal thieves&#8221; ) the men who wanted to steal the seals in CoT, and he tries to kill Fain, Perrin, Rand, Min, maybe Egwene and Nynaeve.<br /><br />If the Shadow uses his best assassin for these persons, it only makes sense that the DO would send him to kill the traitor Asmodean, too. <br />Therefore Slayer has without a doubt a good motive <br /><br />Another fact is that the DO knew already of Asmo&#8217;s death in LoC, prologue:&#8220;WHO BETRAYS ME SHALL DIE THE FINAL DEATH. ASMODEAN, TWISTED BY HIS WEAKNESS.&#8221;<br />Since this knowledge surprises even Demandred, it&#8217;s clear that normally the DO doesn&#8217;t immediately know of a Chosen&#8217;s death. <br />Someone must have told it him; most likely the killer.<br /><br />Against Slayer is argued that he wouldn&#8217;t be an obvious killer in TFoH because we really learned who he is and what he does not until WH. <br /><br />That's wrong. Actually we could figure a lot about Slayer already before Asmodean&#8217;s death.<br /><br />First his name is quite significant, the wolves call him &#8220;a Slayer&#8221; and know that he is deadly (he even smells unhuman).  <br /><br />He is very prominent among the Shadow. <br />As Isam he is mentioned in the Dark Prophecies (TGH, ch.7). <br />In the battle in the Two Rivers in TSR the Trollocs scream his name (TSR, ch.56).   <br />We also know that Isam was captured as an infant by the Shadow (EotW, ch.47).<br />Perhaps he was trained as an assassin?<br /><br />In TSR, ch.42, Slayer tells Perrin in TAR that he brought the Shadowspawn to the Two Rivers, first &quot;to keep those fool Whitecloaks off balance and see that the renegade died.&#8221; The renegade is Fain.<br />Slayer also indicates that he already heard of Perrin:&#8220;Your presence was a surprise. There are those who want your head on a pike.&#8221; <br />Certainly he means some of the Chosen or even the DO. Ishamael knew that all three ta&#8217;veren are important and presented them e.g. at the DF meeting in TGH, prologue. <br /><br />This shows that Slayer knows the Shadow&#8217;s plans quite good and that he has contacts to the leaders of the Shadow. <br />For this, it was likely that Asmodean recognized Slayer, too, before he died.<br /><br />Fain himself thinks in TSR, ch.31, of Slayer, &#8220;this new one appeared with his Gray Men&#8221;. <br />Note the connection between Slayer and the other assassin&#8217;s of the Shadow; Slayer seems to be their boss. <br /><br />Later in TSR, ch.56, Fain considers that &#8220;even Isam had played into his hands&#8221; and that &#8220;the man was a problem for another time&#8220;. We also read that Fain&#8217;s &#8220;Halfman feared Isam would find it&#8221;.<br /><br />That Fain sees Slayer as a problem and even a Myrddraal is afraid of Isam and imagines that he could somehow find him shows already in TSR that Slayer is a deadly assassin who can find his victims everywhere. <br /><br />As I mentioned, there are already two very strange killings before Asmo&#8217;s death in the books (in WH we get the proof that it was Slayer both times).<br /><br />First in the White Tower a Gray Man is killed (TDR, ch.15). <br />Someone shoots a crossbow bolt in Egwene&#8217;s direction but she is saved by Nynaeve. <br />Egwene thinks, &#8220;the quarrel would have gone right through her head, and would probably have killed Nynaeve, too.&#8221;<br /><br />The girls find the dead Gray Man, &#8220;the hilt of a dagger stood out from the man&#8217;s chest.&#8221; <br />Then  they are &#8220;realizing that something was missing. A crossbow.&#8221; <br />Later they notice that the bolt is gone, too.<br /><br />It&#8217;s quite clear that Slayer took both, maybe he even was the person who shot the quarrel after he placed the dead Gray Man in the WT for some reason. <br />Slayer is able to use weapons like bows or crossbows. He hunted Perrin in TAR with arrows, e.g. in TSR, ch.42.<br /><br />The second killing is in the Stone of Tear, the two Black Aes Sedai (TSR, ch.12). <br />They were messily killed in their cell but the guards heard or saw nothing. <br />Moiraine says:&#8221;I doubt even a Gray Man could have done that. [&#8230;] The Shadow has resources beyond what we know, it seems&#8221;.<br /><br />With these incidents and the clues I pointed out above about Slayer, it was already possible to draw the right conclusions at the time of Asmo&#8217;s death. <br />Thus RJ is indeed right, it is obvious.<br /><br />We learned that Slayer can go into TAR and that he is apparently a top hitman of the Shadow.<br />On the other hand we had two mysterious assassinations. <br />Both times the killer was able to enter and leave the WT and the Stone of Tear without problems.<br /><br />It is quite obvious that the same person was also able to enter the Caemlyn palace, surprise and kill Asmo, and that this person must be Slayer. <br /><br />Of course we couldn&#8217;t be sure about every detail how Slayer could to achieve that (though it was possible to figure it out). <br /><br />The other clues come in the following books till CoT: <br />Slayer can appear right where his victims are. <br />Maybe he uses TAR in a special way or has the abilitly ot see from TAR into the real world. <br />Therefore he could know that Asmo would enter the room, and he was prepared. <br /><br />I believe the following occurred in the scene: <br /><br />Asmo entered a room by chance, saw Slayer who came out of thin air or waited for him in this room (maybe Asmodean mistook him for Lan/or Rand in the first moment). <br />Asmodean was full of panic because he realized that he would die now. And indeed, Slayer killed Asmodean with a deadly shot from his crossbow. Asmodean was so close that Slayer couldn&#8217;t miss him. <br />That explains the quickness of Asmo&#8217;s death and why he had no chance to defend himself, i.e. RJ could also have written, &#8220;the word still hung in the air when <i> the bolt </i> took him.&#8221;<br /><br />Slayer took Asmodean&#8217;s corpse with him, so that Rand wouldn&#8217;t be suspicious, left the palace and somewhat later reported the DO his success. <br /><br />Some people will argue that the DO said Asmo died the &#8220;final death&#8221;, that must mean a balefire death.<br /><br />I disagree. The DO is the Lord of the Grave and therefore he can decide whom he gives a new body, surely not a traitor like Asmodean.<br />Even Asmo himself thought shortly before his death that &#8220;immortality was gone&#8221;.<br />Asmo died the final death when he was killed by Slayer.<br /><br />One other minor point seems to speak against Slayer, though. <br />In WH, ch.22, Slayer thinks that &#8220;he had especially enjoyed those two Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear&#8221; and that he not &#8220;got to kill an Aes Sedai very often&#8221;.<br />Why doesn&#8217;t he mention the surely even more satisfying killing of a Forsaken?<br /><br />Several explainations are imaginable.<br />It could be that Slayer simply didn&#8217;t think of that killing in this moment.<br /><br />Or the killing of the Aes Sedai was indeed more satisfying because they were two or women or their fear was even more enjoybale than Asmodean&#8217;s fear. <br />After all Asmo&#8217;s death must happen very quickly so that no one notices it, in contrary to the messy killing of the Aes Sedai which is perhaps more after Slayer&#8217;s fancy.<br /><br />Maybe Slayer didn&#8217;t know that Asmo was a Chosen but his order was just to kill the bard of the Dragon Reborn (that would only work if they never met and Asmo just figured that his killer must be Slayer).<br /><br />Anyway, the point can easily be explained.<br />Besides, we also never hear in Graendal&#8217;s POVs that she killed Asmo.<br />The reason is of course that RJ doesn&#8217;t want to tell the solution because he likes that we still try to figure it out.<br />Therefore Slayer&#8217;s PoV doesn&#8217;t rule him out at all.<br /><br />That the Shadow sent Slayer makes also sense for the plot because it seems that Asmo wasn&#8217;t only killed because he was a traitor, but because Taim, who is apparently a DF, should join Rand (and he does immediately after Asmo&#8217;s death). <br />Probably Asmo&#8217;s presence had spoiled this plan. Therefore he had to die at this point, and RJ wanted to keep this as a secret. <br />Finally it&#8217;s also more likely that only one fan discovered all this.<br /> <br /><b> IV. Conclusion: It was Slayer </b><br /><br />If we now weigh up the pro and contra arguments for Graendal and Slayer, it should be clear that Slayer is more likely and obvious. <br />While Graendal becomes a prime suspect rather due the hints in the books after TFoH which rule out other possible candidates, the most important Slayer clues are already presented in the books before Asmo&#8217;s death; you just have to connect them correctly.<br /><br />Actually it is quite surprising that so many people still believe that Graendal killed Asmodean if we look at the facts in the books and what RJ said.<br />Slayer was obviously Asmodean&#8217;s killer.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-02 10:27:08
subject: The Homicide
body:
<p><i>Dear Columbo,<br /><br />We&#8217;re long time readers, first time writers, but hopefully you can give us some of your time to help us. <br /><br />We&#8217;ve had this problem since 1993, and it&#8217;s been nagging us to no end. Who killed Asmodean? We asked Robert Jordan, but all he told us was &#8220;It should be intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.&#8221; What does </i>that<i> mean? Can you spare some time and help us out?<br /><br />Signed,<br /><br />Every wotmaniac.</i><br /><br />Dear wotmaniacs,<br /><br />I&#8217;m glad to take the time to help out my fellow theorists. <br /><br />To start, I&#8217;d like to point out the fact that you&#8217;ve already been given the most important clue to solving the murder: the Smoking Gun. RJ said &#8220;It should be intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.&#8221; I should point out that this question was asked before Lord of Chaos was released. This is the key that solves the murder. <br /><br />As this point, RJ has read the theories, had read the letters and e-mails, and we can assume that he chose his words carefully. Now lets break this down and look at the definition of &#8220;Intuitive.&#8221;<br /><br /><b>Intuitive: Percieved by the mind <i><u>immediately</u></i> without reasoning; based on intuition; <u>self evident.</u></b><br /><br />Now it&#8217;s very important that you understand just what RJ said. Please re-read the quote and make sure that you understand before you continue.<br /><br /><b><u>Casual Observer</u></b><br /><br /><b>Casual: Happening by chance, occasional, contingent.</b><br /><br />I.e. someone who reads for twenty minutes before they go to sleep. Perhaps to help them fall asleep, I don&#8217;t know. <br /><br />Now we&#8217;ve broken down RJ&#8217;s clue and taken it seriously. So based on what has transpired up to the murder, even the most &#8220;casual observer&#8221; should, without reasoning, should see the murderer as &#8220;self evident.&#8221;<br /><br />What does the casual observer need?<br /><br />1. A motive.<br /><br /><b>Motive: That which incites to action.</b><br /><br />A motive we have, but we&#8217;ll get to that later.<br /><br />2. We need to look at the passage just prior to Asmodean&#8217;s death. In this passage, RJ sets the scene for Asmodean&#8217;s murder. Lets have a look at the passage in question:<br /><br />&#8220;<i>Tucking his harp under his arm, Asmodean drifted away from Mat and Aviendha. He enjoyed playing, but not for a pair who did not listen, much less appreciate. He was not sure what had happened that morning, and not sure he wanted to be sure. Too many Aiel had expressed surprise at seeing him, had claimed they had seen him dead; he did not want details. There was a long gash down the wall in front of him. He knew what made that sharp edge, that surface as slick as ice, smoother than any hand could have polished in a hundred years.<br /><br />Idly- but with a shiver, too- he wondered whether being reborn in this fashion made him a new man. He did not think so. Immortality was gone. That was a gift of the Great Lord; he used that name in his head, whatever al&#8217;Thor demanded on his tongue. That was proof enough that he was himself. Immortality gone- he knew it must be imagination, yet sometimes he thought he could feel time dragging at him, pulling him toward a grave he had never thought to meet- and drawing the little of </i>saidin <i>he could was like drinking sewage. He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead. Rahvin either, but Lanfear especially, for what she had done to him. He would laugh when each of the others died, too, and most for the last. It was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he would cling to that tuft of grass on the cliff&#8217;s brink as long as he could. The roots would give way eventually, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.<br /><br />He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. &#8220;You? No!.&#8221; The word still hung in the air when death took him.</i>&#8221;<br /><br />So, what is intuitively obvious? <br /><br />The light has come on for some of you, hasn&#8217;t it? For the rest of you, hang in there. Lets go at this backwards.<br /><br />&#8220;<i>The word still hung in the air as death took him.</i>&#8221; This is obviously someone who can kill quickly, even though Asmodean still had some ability to defend himself. Now, lets say that this person who surprised Asmodean was an Aiel. Quick as thought, Asmodean had the ability to stop a dagger thrust or a crossbow bolt without much difficulty. Don&#8217;t forget: he was shielded, but not completely. He says that &#8220;<i>&#8230;drawing the little of </i>saidin <i>he could was like drinking sewage.</i>&#8221; He has been teaching Rand, as well, with this power. Rand doesn&#8217;t need to learn how to light candles, he needs to know how to do some complex weaving like wards and such, which requires more than a little power on Asmodean&#8217;s part, but not enough to cause a serious threat. Even though he had very little power he could very easily defend himself against all but competent channelers. I mean the man was a Forsaken: he would have had a lot of aces up his sleeve. He could have just used tiny shards of Air to cut or blind an enemy. These guys weren&#8217;t just anyone: they were smart. So, even against an Aiel he would not have been in serious trouble. That shows us that Asmodean&#8217;s murderer was a channeler of some strength.<br /><br />&#8220;<i>You?</i>&#8221;<br /><br />Apparently the last person he expected to see; he was completely surprised.<br /><br />&#8220;<i>No!</i>&#8221; <br /><br />He had the time not only get out a second word, but to come to the realization that he had no chance against the assailant. What does that mean? That whoever it was in that pantry wanted him to know exactly who was going to take his life. <br /><br />We go backward some more now. &#8220;<i>&#8230; the blood draining from his face.</i>&#8221; Did he see a ghost? <br /><br />We go back again:<br /><br />&#8220;<i>It was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he would cling to that tuft of grass on the cliff&#8217;s brink as long as he could. The roots would give way eventually, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.</i>&#8221; Here&#8217;s RJ foreshadowing Asmodean&#8217;s death. It is important that we recognize what RJ is doing here because it relates to a pattern shown in Jordan&#8217;s writing. He is prone to giving clues in the place you would least expect: right before the action in question. His mysteries are surprisingly small. For example, look up my theory: &#8220;Fain, the Oneness, and Rand.&#8221; The theory is fact, and widely accepted, and he holds to the same pattern here as he did there. There is less than a page difference between the clue, and the mystery. There are many others, but we are not concerned with them here. We&#8217;re talking about the murder, aren&#8217;t we? Lets continue.<br /><br />Lets go back again.<br /><br />&#8220;<i>He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead. Rahvin either, but Lanfear especially, for what she had done to him.</i>&#8221; <br /><br />Here is Robert Jordan giving us the killer: making it &#8220;intuitively obvious,&#8221; and fitting with his previous patterns. How is this <i>not</i> intuitively obvious? <br /><br />Well, lets get back to the motive I was talking about before. Lanfear has a motive here, whereas the other suspects (we&#8217;ll get to them, too) fall far short. She has a motive that even the most casual observer would notice, and so Lanfear is your killer. How does this work with the Smoking Gun? &#8220;Perceived by the mind immediately, without reasoning.&#8221; <br /><br />We tend to go away from the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) attitude that Jordan has told us to use and the mystery becomes complicated beyond its nature, making the theory bereft of intuition. You need to be able to read the passage and come to a realization intuitively. The killer is obvious: Lanfear.<br /><br />I have now taken some time to handle some common objections and myths that I know are going to come up. These are not necessary for the theory to be proven (though Lanfear&#8217;s Motive plays a big part), but interesting nonetheless. <br /><br /><b><u>Lanfear&#8217;s Motive</u></b><br /><br />Lanfear allowed Asmodean to live and &#8220;teach&#8221; Rand, though her real purpose in letting him live was to have a spy near her beloved. &#8220;<i>I have been too busy to watch al&#8217;Thor myself. Tell me what he has done, aside from conquering Cairhein, what he plans to do.</i>&#8221; This is Lanfear talking to Kadere on the morning of Asmodean&#8217;s death. This is what she requires from Asmodean even moreso than from Kadere, but she cannot always get close to Asmodean. After all, he sleeps in Rand&#8217;s tent and is at the very heart of the enemy camp. But he is supposed to be relaying information to her; however, Asmodean has been hiding a piece of news that he very well knew would be of the utmost importance to Lanfear: that Rand was &#8220;cheating&#8221; on her. When she finds out, she loses her mind, very simply put. At this point we know that if she has the opportunity she will snuff out Asmodean the first chance she gets, just like she skinned poor Kadere. He is at the top of her hitlist. <br /><br />This motive is &#8220;intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.&#8221; This motive is really really really really (etc.) obvious, and I think we can all see that.<br /><br />Now, who would know what Asmodean was doing and where he was? Now remember, RJ said that it would be intuitively obvious, and he said that before LoC was released. That means that every clue you need is included up to the end of FoH and Asmodean&#8217;s death. <br /><br />Strike Slayer off the list, because a) Asmodean could have punctured him quite easily, and lets face it: he isn&#8217;t much of a threat to a channeler who is not shielded or sleeping in his bed (the AS in the Stone and Rand in Far Madding), b) we don&#8217;t know if Asmodean even had a clue to Slayer&#8217;s existence, and c) most importantly, he is <i>not intuitively obvious</i>.<br /><br />Strike Graendal. a) She is not intuitively obvious, b) there is <b>no proof</b> that she knew of Asmodean&#8217;s whereabouts or association with Rand (Lanfear was the only one of the Forsaken- read: THE ONLY ONE- who knew where Asmodean was and what he was about), and c) most of the &#8220;evidence&#8221; of her being involved comes either in LoC or later books, which is in my mind RJ misdirecting us. Boom. Graendal is out.<br /><br />Sammael can be crossed off, too. He just isn&#8217;t intuitively obvious and he, too, did not know where Asmodean was or what he was doing. <br /><br />&#8220;Well, she was dead.&#8221;<br /><br />This comes up so often that my lazy eye starts twitching when I hear it. Show me proof of Lanfear&#8217;s death. Wait wait, I can strike your objections before you even bring them up. You&#8217;re going to say: &#8220;But Moiraine&#8217;s bond with Lan was broken. Lan says that she must be dead because their bond was gone, and that must not have happened when she went through the doorway in Tear.&#8221; And I&#8217;m going to say to you: &#8220;Yes, but Moiraine passed the bond before she died. Lanfear smashes Lan against a wagon and he is knocked unconscious. Before Moiraine makes her final assault on Lanfear, she thinks &#8220;<i>She forced him out of her mind. He had saved her life so many times that by rights it should have belonged to him, but she had long since done what she could to see that he survived his lone war with the Shadow. Now he must live or die without her.</i>&#8221; It is quite obvious that she passed the bond onto another. This was all prearranged. We all know that a Warder feeling his AS&#8217;s death feels exactly what she does. If she had died while still in possession of the bond, Lan, most likely, would have died with her. But no, she transferred the bond, so why do we assume that Moiraine died? Why, then, do we assume that <i>Lanfear</i> died in the doorway? Mat went in and made his deal, foolishly not setting a price for the information he was given. Lanfear would have had the knowledge to set a price. After all, that was her job in the Age of Legends: studying other worlds. She knew all about the Portal Stones, etc. That is her area of expertise. She also knows both names of finnland&#8217;s inhabitants: Aelfinn and Eelfinn (shown in the next paragraph of this theory). Mat did not know their names just by going through the doorway. She knew all about the doors, and would have made the right deal&#8221; <br /><br />Now you say: &#8220;But her and Moiraine would have fought to the death in there.&#8221; I will say: &#8220;Untrue. We all know that when you go through the doorway you go to separate stops, able to make your own deals and ask your own questions. Therefore Lanfear and Moiraine went to different places. We can then assume that Lanfear did NOT die in the doorway. After all, by her own words as Cyndane in WH, she says &#8220;&#8230; <i>before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!</i>&#8221; Now, I don&#8217;t really need that to prove it, but that&#8217;s proof that she was not killed in finnland, just held. This is not required at the time her trip through the doorway, though. It is not required reading to prove that she killed Asmodean.&#8221;<br /><br />By the way, I am well aware of the fact that I just used a quote from WH: released well after FoH. However, like I said, that is not a required piece of evidence. Just some food for thought.<br /><br />What I have just done is shown that there was no reason, as of the end of FoH, for a casual observer to believe that Lanfear was dead. Couple that with the Asmodean&#8217;s final thoughts, RJ&#8217;s reoccurring patterns and quote, and Lanfear&#8217;s motive, and you&#8217;ve got the killer. <br /></p><p><b>Vercingetorix says:</b> Very well put together, if a bit dismissive of some others as suspects.<br /><br />It seems the general trend is back to Lanfear.  First it was her, then Graendal, then Slayer (what <i>were</i> you people thinking there?), and now back to the Ice Queen.  Interesting.<br /><br />I will say I never interpreted that one passage as Moiraine passing on her bond, but I REALLY like it.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-08 12:27:53
subject: The Homicide Relaoded
body:
<p>Dear Columbo,<br /><br /> <br />	Thanks for your quick reply to our letter!  Your reply was simple and easy to comprehend, we our forever in your debt.  Robert Jordan was correct when he said &#8220;It should be intuitively obvious even to the most casual observer&#8221; We have to thank you for breaking down the passage and showing us how Robert Jordan leaves his clues.  This combined with motive and along with Robert Jordan&#8217;s quote, sure brings it altogether.  You have made believers out of the majority of us.  Yet questions remain about the How? The Why?  How did Lanfear return from Finnland if the doorway was destroyed?  Why did Lanfear kill only Asmodean and not Aviendha as well?  I realize we ask for allot, but we need your help to answer these remaining questions.  Columbo, we again wait patiently for your theory.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Signed,<br /><br />Wotmaniacs<br /><br />P.S.  Columbo, is it significant that the start of LoC begins the very next day after TFoH ends? <br /><br /><br /><br />Dear Wotmaniacs,<br /><br />	I&#8217;m glad to hear that you enjoyed my response to your previous letter.  I&#8217;m glad also to hear that the majority of you have come to the realization that Lanfear was Asmodean&#8217;s killer.  In regards to your request for additional help, I have no problem taking the time to help out fellow Wotmaniacs.  I have a theory that explains the, How did Lanfear return from Finnland if the doorway was destroyed?  And the Why did Lanfear kill only Asmodean and not Aviendha as well?  <br /><br />	It is significant that the LoC begins the day after TFoH ends.  You&#8217;re starting to show some understanding, good for you!  We will look at the significance of this later; first let&#8217;s start with a quick recap of the facts. <br /><br />Lanfear has a motive.  We had a look at Lanfear&#8217;s motive in my last reply; we will expand on her motive in this theory to help answer the why?  But we are going to leave it until later.<br /><br />Final Passage<br /><br />We looked closely at the final passage, and dissected it in my last reply.  We recognized a pattern consistent in Robert Jordan&#8217;s writing, which lent considerable weight to the case. <br /><br />Let&#8217;s have a quick look, shall we?<br /><br />&#8220;The word still hung in the air when death took him.&#8221;  Killer has ability to kill quickly.<br /><br />&#8220;No!&#8221;  Asmodean realizes that he can do nothing to defend himself, he is about to die.  <br /><br />&#8220;You?&#8221;  Asmodean is completely surprised, the last person he expected to see.<br /><br />&#8220;One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face.&#8221;  Asmodean has just seen a ghost!<br /><br />&#8220;but he would give way eventually, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.&#8221;  Robert Jordan is foreshadowing Asmodean&#8217;s death.  Some people say that habits die hard, let&#8217;s look further.  <br /><br />&#8220;He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead.  Rahvin either, but Lanfear especially, for what she had done to him.&#8221;  Robert Jordan reveals the killer, Lanfear.  At this point I realize someone out there is going to say &#8220;well RJ mentioned Rahvin also!&#8221;  Of course he did!  That&#8217;s how writers distract the reader from the truth.  Rahvin is mentioned only to through you of the scent.  Remember that at this point as the reader you are aware that Rahvin was just killed by balefire.  Lanfear on the other hand passed through the doorway to Finnland that morning and could return at any moment.  <br /><br />&#8220;There was a long gash down the wall in front of him.  He knew what made that sharp edge, that surface as slick as ice, smoother than any hand could have polished in a hundred years.&#8221;  THE MURDER WEAPON!  BALEFIRE! <br /><br />Robert Jordan has given us the clues we need, now let&#8217;s go forward, and see if it fits?<br /><br />&#8220;One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face.&#8221;  Asmodean reacts as anyone would if they ran into someone they thought was dead. <br /><br />&#8220;You?&#8221;  As we just saw from Asmodean&#8217;s point of view, Lanfear is the last one he expected to run into.  Asmodean is completely surprised.<br /><br />&#8220;No!&#8221;  Lanfear&#8217;s presence can mean only one thing, death, and Asmodean can do nothing to stop her.  <br /><br />&#8220;The word still hung in the air when death took him.&#8221;  Balefire, as hinted at earlier in the passage. <br /><br />Above we had a motive, Robert Jordan&#8217;s quote, and passage that work together beautifully to convict Lanfear of Asmodean&#8217;s murder.<br /><br />I have borrowed this from my previous reply, because it is important that we have it to refer to.  I&#8217;m sure you are anxious to get started, so am I, so let&#8217;s get started.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />			The Homicide Reloaded<br /><br /><br /><br />We will look at this as follows;<br /><br />1. How would Lanfear return from Finnland if the door was destroyed?<br />2. Why did Lanfear kill only Asmodean and not Aviendha as well?  At this point we will also expand on Lanfear&#8217;s motive<br />3. The significance of LoC beginning the day after TFoH ended.<br />4. End with a theory that puts it all together. <br /><br /><br />1. How would Lanfear return from Finnland if the door was destroyed?<br /><br />Does passing through one of the two known doorways into Finnland result in death?  The answer is no, it doesn&#8217;t.  As the reader we have an advantage, we get to see the same thing through several sets of eyes at times during the story (Robert Jordan&#8217;s fictional characters)  What did we learn prior to Lanfear&#8217;s passing through the doorway?  We learnt that even individuals with little or no experience can return home from Finnland with more than they entered with.  Fact is, not one of Robert Jordan&#8217;s characters has died as a result of passing through the doorway.  We would consider Lanfear to be an expert in dealing with the Finns.  The age she&#8217;s from, Age of Legends, as well as the fact that she studied other worlds at that time.<br /><br />&#8220;She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!&#8221;<br />                          -  Cyndane&#8217;s POV.  Winter&#8217;s Heart.<br /><br />What can we gain from this quote?  Let&#8217;s zoom in, have a closer look, and see what we can learn.  &#8220;the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!&#8221;<br /><br />From Cyndane&#8217;s point of view we learn that either doorway takes you to, and returns you from Finnland, one door Aelfinn&#8217;s home, one door Eelfinn&#8217;s home, and both homes in Finnland.  We have a remaining door that functions in Tear, and thus we have an exit.  <br />This leaves Lanfear two options;<br />Lanfear concludes her business with the Finns and returns via the doorway in Tear.<br />Lanfear is granted a wish from the Eelfinn that allows her to return to take care of urgent business.<br /><br />What&#8217;s behind door number two?<br /><br />2. Why did Lanfear kill only Asmodean and not Aviendha as well?  At this point we will also expand on Lanfear&#8217;s motive.<br /><br />Snapshot of Lanfear - &#8220;The most powerful of the female Forsaken, possibly the most powerful of all next to Isamael, was Lanfear, Daughter of the Night in the old tongue.  She alone of the Forsaken chose her own name, claiming the territory of the World of Dreams &#8211; Tel&#8217;aran&#8217;rhiod- and other people&#8217;s dreams as her domain.&#8221;  <br />&#8220;she loved her association with the great Lews Therin more than she loved the man, and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.&#8221;  <br />				- quotes from The Big White Book<br /><br />Not a complete profile, but it will do the job.<br /><br />&#8220;She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!&#8221;<br />Cyndane&#8217;s POV.  Winter&#8217;s Heart<br /><br />It&#8217;s obvious from Cyndane&#8217;s point of view in Winter&#8217;s Heart that she was held for a time by the Finns.  At this point we have come to the realization that Lanfear survived Moraine and has had the chance to regain her composure.  As well Lanfear has a pretty good idea of what is about to transpire back in Randland.  She is anxious to return, minutes would feel like hours, hours would feel like days and days like weeks.  Lanfear knows full well that every second lost in Finnland is a second lost in Randland (not the case but I hope you get my drift) and she can&#8217;t afford to be away for long.  She will have some explaining to do once she returns to Randland and confronts the DO.  How much explaining will Lanfear have to do?  That will depend on how events unfold in Randland.  The sooner she can return the better.  Why?  Because if another forsaken e.g. Greandal should get her hands on Asmodean and find out the truth about his relationship with Rand, Lanfear is finished.  Rand, Asmodean and Lanfear new the truth about Lanfear&#8217;s designs for her and Lews Therin.  If Asmodean fell into the wrong hands, he would reveal all and this would seal Lanfear&#8217;s fate, not to mention Lanfear now wants Rand dead, which is another reason to put Asmodean out of his misery.  At this point Lanfear&#8217;s only chance at survival is to eliminate Asmodean before the others get to him, then she can return and put her spin on what happened.  Without Asmodean to dispute her story, she&#8217;s greatly increased her chances of survival.  Damage control, clean up on isle #4.  If Lanfear succeeds, Asmodean will forever be remembered for being a traitor whom Lanfear took care of for the DO and that&#8217;s how Lanfear wants it remembered, as well as the fact that she killed the traitor.  Asmodean was Lanfear&#8217;s top priority!  If Lanfear could eliminate Asmodean quickly, her chances at survival would increase significantly.  Lanfear would have an idea of how time worked in Finnland in relation to Randland; this knowledge would serve her well.  <br /><br />If Lanfear tells the story then Asmodean is forever remembered as the traitor, if Asmodean tells the story vice versa.  Aviendha is of no consequence at this point.  She is no longer on the list of things to do today.   You&#8217;ll note also that the motive has changed.<br /><br /><br />3. The significance of LoC beginning the day after TFoH ended.<br /><br />At the start of LoC through Demandred&#8217;s point of view, we find out that the DO is aware of Asmodean&#8217;s death and that this is news to Demandred.  Asmodean&#8217;s killer has reported to the DO prior to Demandred&#8217;s arrival or The DO is aware of Asmodean&#8217;s death because he was balefired.  He is the lord of the grave.  <br /><br />Let&#8217;s get back to Demandred.  Demandred wasn&#8217;t involved, and if he wasn&#8217;t involved, then Mesaana and Semmerhage weren&#8217;t involed either.  I&#8217;ve got of track, sorry.  <br /><br />			The Homicide Reloaded<br /><br />&#8220;She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!&#8221;<br />I&#8217;d like to add that this thought was interrupted by Alivia.  Too bad, it would have been interesting to see where this train of thought might have led, and revealed<br /><br /><br />Lanfear and Moraine pass through the doorway in Cairhien and end up in Finnland separated. <br /><br />Lanfear was very familiar with other worlds.  She new how the Portal Stones worked as an example, and we can assume that she had knowledge of the Finns and Finnland.  She would therefore be aware of her predicament and use the knowledge she acquired in AOL to her advantage.  <br /><br /> Lanfear quickly realizes that the loss of her self control prior to passing through the doorway has put her behind the eight ball.  She will have some explaining to do when she returns to Randland.  She has a long way to go and a short time to get there.  <br />Quickly she formulates a plan in her head to reduce the damage to herself. Damage control.  She realizes a cover-up is required and Asmodean becomes at this moment, the biggest threat to Lanfear.  She can deal with the Finns but what if Asmodean should fall into the wrong hands in the meantime???  If that were to happen, say as an example, into Graendal or Sammy&#8217;s hands, she might never talk her way out of the trouble she&#8217;s in.  If she can just eliminate Asmodean before anything of the like should happen, she could put her own spin on events when she returned home.  <br /><br />Looking around she realizes that she can&#8217;t return the way she came.  She will have to bargain with the Eelfinn.  They would grant her the means and opportunity but what at what price?  Cyndane&#8217;s quote from Winter&#8217;s Heart reveals the price she had to pay.  If we consider Lanfear&#8217;s profile, then we realize just how important status and power mean to her.  A reduction in the amount of one power she can hold would drastically affect her standing and influence among her peers.  A big price they would demand indeed.  <br /><br />Eelfinn grant her means to return and the opportunity to kill Asmodean.  Eelfinn send her back and put her in Asmodean&#8217;s path.  She&#8217;s Johnny on the spot.  Asmodean recognizes her and then she kills Asmodean with balefire to guarantee that he doesn&#8217;t ever return and tell his story.  When she&#8217;s brought back to Finnland the Eelfinn find out she&#8217;s a darkfriend (Moraine)and imprison her there.  Lanfear pays a big price not only because she is reduced in power but also because they hold her in Finnland as a prisoner.  Loss of power and time = BIG PRICE.  At this point Lanfear, in an attempt to escape dies.  She is later put in a new body and given the name Cyndane which means last chance.  Upon questioning she puts her spin on events, maybe blaming Asmodean for what happened in Cairhien and Camealyn.  Dirty despicable traitor he is.  Asmodean is forever remembered as a traitor.  Randland will remember that Lanfear failed, made a big mess, but was given another shot to achieve greatness as Cyndane.  <br /><br />History is written by the victor. <br /><br />The DO is aware of Asmodean&#8217;s death almost immediately after he is killed, he is the lord of the grave don&#8217;t forget.  (See RJ&#8217;s recent comments on this subject).  <br /><br />The End!<br /></p><p><b>Jeordam says:</b> Well written theory...I still don't agree.  *grin*  See the blackboard.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-14 09:14:17
subject: Who did it...an 18 suspect matrix-based solution
body:
<p>Well I thought I would add some fuel to the fire of the rekindled debate raging around who killed Asmodean. I created a list of 18 suspects and ranked them on a 0-10 scale (with 10 being the highest and 5 being neutral) in 9 separate categories. The highest total score is concluded to be the prime suspect in Asmodean's death. Hopefully you find the matrix to be strait forward in its presentation.<br /><br />A disclaimer:<br />The scores awarded were determined by me. No formula was used; they are an empirical number based on my observations, research, and general feeling. I am not the foremost expert in this area. I tend to be a lurker at this site (since early 2001 or so) and post sporadically. So please don't get bogged down in the scores too much. They are all debatable. Those small details hopefully average out in the matrix. The majority is serious, however, I can never go too long without injecting something that is somewhat less than serious (hopefully these suspects will be obvious). And finally, if you are curious, I tend to believe that Graendal did it. I believe Lanfear presents an interesting case and is a possibility. I can't be convinced it was Slayer. So that's my bias.<br /><br />The letters below represent the 9 column categories for the matrix.<br /><br />A&#8230;Motive<br />B&#8230;Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH)<br />C&#8230;Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH)<br />D&#8230;Opinion of Masses<br />E&#8230;Ability to do the Job<br />F&#8230;Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene<br />G&#8230;Ability to Remain Undetected<br />H&#8230;In Light of Asmodean's Reaction<br />I&#8230;In Light of RJ's Clue<br /><br /><br />Below is the matrix. Remember the scale is 0-10 with 5 being neutral.<br /><b><br />Suspect&#8230;&#8230;.......A..B..C..D..E..F..G..H..I</b><br />Gholam.&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;5..2...5..3..10..8..10.4..3<br />Graendal.&#8230;....&#8230;.8..7&#8230;8..8..9&#8230;9..7&#8230;8..8<br />Lan.&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;5..2&#8230;2..3..4&#8230;3..8&#8230;2..3<br />Lanfear&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;.9..6&#8230;5..7..9&#8230;7..7&#8230;9..9<br />Lews Therin&#8230;.....8..2&#8230;1..3..6&#8230;7..8&#8230;5..3<br />Moraine&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;4..2&#8230;.5..4..7&#8230;5..6&#8230;3..3<br />Moridin&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;.8..0&#8230;.6..6..10.10.10.4&#8230;5<br />Padan Fain&#8230;.....4..4&#8230;.4..6&#8230;6..4&#8230;4..6...3<br />Rand&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....&#8230;4..4&#8230;2..3..10.10.8..5&#8230;3<br />Robert Jordan.....5..5..5..5..10.10.10..5.. 0<br />Sammael&#8230;&#8230;.....8..7..6..6&#8230;9...9..7&#8230;.8&#8230;.7<br />Shaidar Haran......8..0..5..5..10..10..10..3..5<br />Slayer&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....6..4..7..8..6..10..10..6..6<br />Taim...................7..2..6..6..8..7..6..3..5<br />Tyrion Lannister&#8230;8..0..0..1..4..4..6..5..3<br />Santa Claus...&#8230;5..0..0..1..8..10..10..5..3<br />Tooth Fairy........5..0..0..1..5..7..10..5..3<br />Hanukkah Harry..5..0..0..1..6..6..10..5..3<br /><br />Totals come after the scoring explanations.<br /><br /><b>Suspect Scoring</b><br /><br />Now comes the long part. I will go through the 18 suspects and give each a score in the 9 categories of the matrix. For this exercise, I rely heavily on existing theories (and <i>my interpretation and impression of said theories</i>) without producing much in the way of original ideas. I will reference some of the more prominent theories, but I would recommend reading all of the theories regarding Asmodean&#8217;s demise. <br /><br /><b>Gholam</b><br /><br />The gholam is occasionally thrown out as a suspect. Below is how I scored the gholam.<br /><br />A (Motive): The gholam doesn&#8217;t really much will of its own. Therefore the only motive would be an order by (presumably) another forsaken. Therefore it gets a score of 5 (neutral).<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is next to no mention of the gholam pre-tFoH. We only know that they are a shadowspawn of sort. We give the score a low 2.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either. The gholam doesn&#8217;t tend to hide its victims much, so no body is count against. But we do know that they are very good at their job. Score = 5.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Not many people really appear believe this. Score = 3.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): The gholam were created to assassinate channelers. Arguably, nothing could do a better job here. Score = 10.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): They are very sneaky and can fit into quite small places, but cannot instantly appear out of thin air. Score = 8.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): Can kill quickly and quietly and very sneaky as mentioned above. Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Asmodean&#8217;s reaction is not consistent with how he would likely react to a gholam (which is essentially a tool, however dangerous). I would doubt the reaction would so personable (remember the word used is &#8216;You&#8217; ). Score = 4.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Graendal</b><br /><br />Graendal is many people&#8217;s top suspect. Theories abound about her involvement. See the theory post for more detail than I give. A good theory to start at is <i>Why Graendal Did It</i> by Knarfling. <br /><br />A (Motive): Asmodean is a rival of all forsaken and a traitor to boot. The motive is there for all forsaken. In addition, Graendal may be on orders from above. Score = 8.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is certainly evidence here, though some is quite debatable. However, there is more evidence for her than most. Score = 7.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : We get some additional evidence post-tFoH. Most interesting is her absolute knowledge of Asmodean&#8217;s death, when that is hardly common knowledge. Score = 8.<br /> <br />D (Opinion of Masses): Like mentioned above, she is a top suspect, possibly the top suspect. Score = 8.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): A powerful channeler (more powerful than Asmodean, even unshielded). The ability is certainly there. Score = 9.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): She can travel, this is a huge advantage over many. Score = 9.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): She is obviously very sneaky (most forsaken seam to be). And she can travel and has much more knowledge than modern folk. However, there is always the fact that females (and even males at close distance) can detect female channeling. Score = 7.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Asmodean&#8217;s reaction is consistent with suddenly seeing a rival forsaken. Score = 8.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): At least as intuitively obvious as most other suspects. People have presented pretty good arguments for this. In addition, see the theory <i>Asmodean&#8217;s Killer is Confirmed&lt;i&gt; by LS for an interesting RJ comment and possible trick of wording. Score = 8.<br /><br /><b>Lan</b><br /><br />Sometimes mentioned as a suspect, however unlikely.<br /><br />A (Motive): He doesn&#8217;t like forsaken (obviously). But it is unlikely that he knows Asmodean&#8217;s identity. Score = 5.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is pretty much no evidence here. Lan&#8217;s location is hard reconcile. Score = 2.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either. Score = 2.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Not many people really appear believe this. Score = 3.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): Lan is great killer. But we are talking about a non-channeler vs. a forsaken. Score = 4.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He was in Cairhein a few hours earlier and he can&#8217;t travel. Score = 3.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is good, and people would recognize him and likely not comment. Score = 8.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Totally inconsistent here. Score = 2.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Lanfear</b><br /><br />An old favorite, especially with Columbo&#8217;s latest theory &lt;i&gt;The Homicide </i>. Of course, there are some pretty big holes to get around.<br /><br />A (Motive): She has the best motive, especially with her psychotic behavior regarding Rand and Avi. Score = 9.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is good evidence here, but really, the last time we see her (only a matter of hours before) she fell through the door to finnland. Score = 6.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here. Score = 5.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Actually a popular suspect. Especially come lately. Score = 7.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): A very powerful channeler. Score = 9.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): She can travel, but there is finnland to deal with. Oh, and she may have been dead at this point. Score = 7.<br /> <br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): Same deal as Graendal. Score = 7.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Lanfear is arguably the best fit here. Score = 9.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Columbo made a great case here. Score = 9.<br /><br /><b>Lews Therin</b><br /><br />Sometimes mentioned as a suspect, however unlikely. See <i>Lews Therin Killed Him </i> by Highroller<br /><br />A (Motive): They have history, and he is always wanting to kill forsaken. Score = 8.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is pretty much no evidence here. Score = 2.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either. And considering that he doesn&#8217;t have his own body, there are some real difficulties. Score = 2.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Not many people really appear believe this. Score = 3.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): Very powerful channeler, but somehow has to get control of Rand&#8217;s body. Score = 6.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): Of course, but again with the lack of a body. Score = 7.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is Rand, nobody questions his whereabouts. Score = 8.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Not very consistent. Score = 5.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Moraine</b><br /><br />Sometimes mentioned as a suspect, however unlikely. See <i>Moraine did it&#8230; </i> by Glassbox.<br /><br />A (Motive): She doesn&#8217;t like forsaken, but knows about Asmodean and has accepted Rand&#8217;s decision. Score = 4.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is pretty much no evidence here. Especially with her diving into finnland with Lanfear. Score = 2.<br /> <br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either. Score = 5.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Not many people really appear believe this. Score = 4.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): She can channel, but she is up against forsaken here. Score = 7.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): The finnland connection and she can&#8217;t travel. Score = 5.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): She&#8217;s good, but if people saw her, they would comment. Score = 6.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Not very consistent. Score = 3.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Moridin/Ishamael</b><br /><br />A somewhat popular suspect, but we hadn&#8217;t heard of him yet. See <i>Ishamael is Asmodean&#8217;s Murderer </i> by barid.<br /><br />A (Motive): Asmodean is a traitor, traitors tend to be punished severely. Score = 8.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : Ishamael is dead, and Moridin hasn&#8217;t arrived on the scene yet. Score = 0.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either, but some. Score = 6.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Has some believers. Score = 6.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): Very powerful channeler, and probably the only person with access to the True Power. Score = 10.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He can travel undetected with the True Power. Score = 10.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is good, and has an entire outfit of fancloth. Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Asmodean shouldn&#8217;t be able to recognize him. Score = 4.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Not intuitively obvious. Score = 5.<br /><br /><b>Padan Fain</b><br /><br />Sometimes mentioned as a suspect. See theories <i>Who Killed Asmodean </i> by McManamy and <i>Fain&#8217;s Your Man </i> by The Chosen.<br /><br />A (Motive): He doesn&#8217;t like forsaken, but Rand is his obsession, all others appear not to matter. Score = 4.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is pretty much no evidence here. His location is hard reconcile &#8211; he likely hasn&#8217;t arrived in town yet. Score = 4.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either. Death by him usually involves much pain and screaming and a nasty looking body. None of this is evident. Score = 4.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): A few believers. Score = 6.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): He is quite dangerous, but he is up against a forsaken. Score = 6.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): Can&#8217;t travel and some people would probably sense his evil. Score = 4.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is good, but like I mentioned above death by him is a noisy affair and people could potentially sense his evil. Score = 4.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Not very consistent. Does Asmodean even know who he is? Score = 6.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Rand</b><br /><br />Sometimes mentioned as a suspect, however unlikely.<br /><br />A (Motive): No real motive, Asmodean is his teacher. Score = 4.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is pretty much no evidence here. Score = 4.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Evidence against when we see his POV where he thinks Asmodean ran away. Score = 2.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Not many people really appear believe this. Score = 3.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): Obviously. Score = 10.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He was very close and people don&#8217;t question the Dragon&#8217;s whereabouts. Score = 10.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is good. Score = 8.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Not very consistent. Score = 5.<br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Robert Jordan</b><br /><br />He is the creator, and certainly has the power.  Is all of this mystery covering something up?<br /><br />A (Motive): I&#8217;d guess neutral, but who&#8217;s to say. Score = 5.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : Not much, but he is the source. Score = 5.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : See above. Score = 5.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): This will get people thinking. Score = 5.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): He is the creator. Score = 10.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He is the creator. Score = 10.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is the creator. Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): I really don&#8217;t know. Score = 5.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Fill in the next sentence&#8230;&#8217;I killed him&#8217;. Do you see it? Score = 10.<br /><br /><b>Sammael</b><br /><br />Certainly possible. There are theories, but not good ones (that I have read anyway).<br /><br />A (Motive): Rival forsaken, Asmodean is a traitor, and he is against an advantage to Rand. Score = 8.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : Not much, but there is some that can be used. Score = 7.<br /> <br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here, but mainly because Sammael doesn&#8217;t last long. Much evidence in the before and after used for Graendal could apply to Sammael. Score = 6.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Some believers. Score = 6.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): More powerful than Asmodean by a good deal. Score = 9.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He can travel. Score = 9.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is good, but Rand would likely feel him. As I&#8217;ve hinted at I believe that Ishamael/Moridin is the only person who has access to the True Power. Score = 7.<br /> <br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): It could work. Score = 8.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): He comes to mind almost much as Graendal anyway. Score = 7.<br /><br /><b>Shaidar Haran</b><br /><br />Sometimes mentioned as a suspect, however unlikely. See <i>Asmodean&#8217;s Killer </i> by Ando&#8217;man.<br /><br />A (Motive): Asmodean is a traitor. This doesn&#8217;t sit well with the DO. Score = 8.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : We know nothing of him at this time. Score = 0.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either. Score = 5.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Not many people really appear believe this. Score = 5.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): We&#8217;ve seen that he is very powerful. Score = 10.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): Fades can ride the shadows. Score = 10.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is good, but AS and warders can sense myydraal, can they sense him? Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Totally inconsistent here, we&#8217;ve seen how forsaken react to they myydraal (at first anyway). Score = 3.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 5.<br /><br /><b>Slayer</b><br /><br />A prime suspect. See Etzel&#8217;s theory <i>Slayer vs. Graendal </i> It is very good.<br /><br />A (Motive): Really no motive, other than following orders, which we have not seen or heard about. Score = 6.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : This is debatable. I believe that Slayer is not yet a full character, and thus doesn&#8217;t have much going for him. Score = 4.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : More evidence here, but it can go both ways in some cases. Score = 7.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): He is very popular. Score = 8.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): He can surprise, but he is a non-channeler up against a forsaken. Score = 6.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): Can anyone do it better? Score = 10.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): Again, can anyone do it better? Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Not very consistent. Score = 6.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Not intuitively obvious, at least to me. Score = 6.<br /><br /><b>Mazrim Taim</b><br /><br />There are believers out there and some coincidences. See theories <i>Taim Done It </i> by Aan&#8217;Allein and <i>Asmodean's Killer: Mazrim Taim? </i> by KLitke7967.<br /><br />A (Motive): He is bad and he needs to get rid of Asmodean so he can place himself near Rand. Score = 7.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : Not too much, but we know he is in town. Score = 2.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : Not much evidence here either, but it becomes clear that he is not good. Score = 6.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): Some believers. Score = 6.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): A powerful channeler but not forsaken (?). That is certainly debatable and it is likely that he had training. Score = 8.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He was in town. Score = 7.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): Rand could sense him, and he is a stranger in town and somewhat infamous. Score = 6.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Totally inconsistent here. Score = 3.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Not intuitively obvious. Score = 5.<br /><br /><b>Tyrion Lannister</b><br /><br />This is my own addition, but I&#8217;m sure others share my vision<br /> <br />A (Motive): He doesn&#8217;t like many people, and Asmodean is part of a rival fantasy series. Score = 8.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : There is no evidence here. Score = 0.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : No evidence here either. Score = 0.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): I believe it&#8217;s possible <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" />. Score = 1.<br /> <br />E (Ability to do the Job): Tyrion is a sneaky little bastard. Score = 4.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): This one is tough. Score = 4.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): He is short. Score = 6.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): What&#8217;s more surprising than a dwarf in the pantry. Score = 5.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Santa Claus</b><br /><br />I&#8217;m sure he could have done it. Asmodean has certainly been naughty, not nice.<br /><br />A (Motive): Like I mention Asmodean has been naughty, but Santa is not known for his violence. Score = 5.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : No evidence here. Score = 0.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : No evidence here either. Score = 0.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): I&#8217;m prepared to believe. Score = 1.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): Santa appears to have access to powerful magic. Score = 8.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): He excels at this. Score = 10.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): Another area of excellence. Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): It may work. Score = 5.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Tooth Fairy</b><br /><br />I must be thorough. <br /><br />A (Motive): I don&#8217;t know, maybe Asmodean is a dental hater of some sort. Score = 5.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : No evidence here. Score = 0.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : No evidence here either. Score = 0.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): I&#8217;m open on this. Score = 1.<br /> <br />E (Ability to do the Job): The tooth fairy has access to some unknown magics. Score = 5.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): An area of talent. Score = 7.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): Another area of talent. Score = 10.<br /><br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): It&#8217;s possible. Score = 5.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /><b>Hanukkah Harry</b><br /><br />An effort to not single out Christianity (however secular Santa is).<br /><br />A (Motive): Was Asmodean in with Hitler? Score = 5.<br /><br />B (Evidence Supporting (pre-tFoH) ) : No evidence here. Score = 0.<br /><br />C (Evidence Supporting (post-tFoH) ) : No evidence here either. Score = 0.<br /><br />D (Opinion of Masses): I&#8217;m ready to believe. Score = 1.<br /><br />E (Ability to do the Job): Again, with the unknown magics. Score = 6.<br /><br />F (Ability to Arrive and Depart Crime Scene): No Santa, but no slouch either. Score = 6.<br /><br />G (Ability to Remain Undetected): An area of excellence. Score = 10.<br /> <br />H (In Light of Asmodean's Reaction): Maybe. Score = 5.<br /><br />I (In Light of RJ's Clue): Certainly not intuitively obvious. Score = 3.<br /><br /> <b><br />Here is a ranking of the suspects.</b><br /><b><br />Suspect&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...Score&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Rank</b><br />Graendal&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;72&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..1<br />Lanfear&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..68&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..2<br />Sammael&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;67&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;3<br />Robert Jordan&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..65&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.4<br />Slayer&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;63&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.5<br />Moridin&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..59&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..6<br />Shaidar Haran&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.56&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.7<br />Gholam&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;......50&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.T-8<br />Taim&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;......50&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..T-8<br />Rand&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....49&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..10<br />Lews Therin&#8230;&#8230;......43&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.11<br />Santa Claus&#8230;&#8230;.....42&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;12<br />Padan Fain&#8230;&#8230;.....41&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..13<br />Moraine&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....39&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.14<br />Hanukkah Harry.....36&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..T-15<br />Tooth Fairy&#8230;&#8230;......36&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;T-15<br />Lan&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....32&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.17<br />Tyrion Lannister.....31&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.18<br /><b><br />Conclusion</b><br />Ok, so the conclusion is that Graendal did it after all.<br /><br />A few interesting notes:<br /><br />1. Sammael (3rd with 67) scores much higher than I would have thought.<br /><br />2. Slayer comes in a disappointing 5th place with only 63 points (9 points behind the leader).<br /><br />3. Santa Claus finished 12th, ahead of both Moraine (13) and Lan. (17)<br /><br />4. GRRM fans are happy/upset/surprised to see that Tyrion Lannister is the least likely suspect.<br /><br /><br />Hope you enjoyed it...<br />Flame away, but nicely  <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-14 09:15:04
subject: The Cause of Wilders' Sickness
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<p><b>Hypothesis:</b> The sickness that strikes down 3 out of 4 wilders is not caused by the One Power itself, but by channeling with grasping the source.<br /><br /><b>Proof:</b><br /><br />The idea behind this theory came to life as I noticed there was a very solid difference in the way Rand's channeling is described when he suffered from the sickness that afflicts wilders, and after The Eye of the World when he could channel fine.  In both instances (both before, and immediately after the end of EotW) he was channeling by feel, not knowing what he was doing, quite often doing things without realizing it.  The only difference is he learned how to grasp the source.  <br /><br />There are only two wilders that we can really look at for this, and that would be Rand and Nynaeve. We do not have enough information about any other wilders that include both before and after they learned how to grasp the source.<br /><br />I'll start with Rand and show the difference.  There are 3 commonly accepted times that Rand channeled before he took control of the Eye: Bela, Domon's ship, and the Lightning.  Here's a review of each occurance:<br /><br /><b>Bela:</b>  &quot;With all his heart and desparation he silently shouted at Bela to run like the wind, silently tried to will strength into her.  <i>Run!</i>  His skin prickled, and his bones felt as if they were freezing, ready to split open.  <i>The Light help her, run!</i>  And Bela ran.&quot;  (EotW, p.125 HB)<br /><br /><b>Domon's Ship:</b>  &quot;Frantically he hunted for some way to escape.  Time seemed to slow as the Trolloc raised the jagged pole as if to spear him with it...<i>I'm going to die!  Light help me, I'm goin to ...!</i>  The Trolloc's arm started forward, driving the splintered shaft, and Rand found the breath for one yell.  &quot;No!&quot;<br />  Suddenly the ship lurched, and a boom swung out of the shadows...&quot;  (EotW, p.25<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/smackhead.gif" border="0" />259 HB)<br /><br /><b>The Lightning:</b>  &quot;The words seemed to drift to Rand through wool stuffed in his ears.  <i>No way out.</i>  Thunder muttered overhead, and was drowned in a slash of lightning.  <i>Have to find a way out.</i>...Light filled the room, flooding vision; the air roared and burned.  Rand felt himself picked up...&quot; (EotW, p.407 HB)<br /><br />What's the common thing between these instances?  There's a single odd effect which doesn't match with how grasping the Source has been described.  With Bela his skin prickled and his bones felt freezing, but grasping the Source has always been warm and soothing.  On Domon's ship he suffers a time slowdown, which again has never been used in grasping the source.  With the Lightning we see his hearing is muffled, when we know grasping the source makes things more clear for all senses.<br /><br />Now let's take a look at the first couple instances of Rand grasping the Source starting with his battle with Aginor:<br /><br /><b>Aginor:</b>  &quot;The cord was all.  It hummed.  It sang.  It called Rand's soul.  One bright finger-strand lifted away, drifted, touched him, and he gasped.  Light filled him, and heat that should have burned yet only warmed as if it took the chill of the grave from his bones.  The strand thickened...Light filled his mind...Warmth built in Rand, the warmth of the sun, the radiance of the sun, bursting...&quot; (EotW, p. 634-635) and it goes on like that.<br /><br /><b>Portal Stone:</b>  &quot;The light drifted toward him, it seemed, surrounded him, and he...embraced...it.<br />   Light filled him.  Heat filled him.  He could see the Stone, see the others watching him...The heat and the light, suffusing his limbs.&quot;  (tGH, p.224-225)<br /><br />As I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of light and warmth imagery when Rand grasps saidin, while his earlier channeling not only lack that imagery, but contain symptoms antithesis to it.  The three earlier instances use umagery that seem to show Rand losing energy, while later he gains energy.  Maybe its possible to channel using your own energy instead of the True Source, or maybe directing the One Power without it flowing through you requires an expenditure of your own energy much greater than if it flows through you.  But we do need to verify this, as Rand could be a special case.  So lets go back and look at Nynaeve.<br /><br /><b>Nynaeve's first channeling:</b>  &quot;I thought Egwene was dying.  I used to look after her sometimes when she was a toddler - when her mother was busy - and I started crying because I was going to watch her die.  When Mistress Barran came back an hour later, the fever had broken...&quot; (EotW, p.270)<br /><br />Nynaeve doesn't mention anything sort of warmth or feeling at all.  It's possible she forgot it, but Nynaeve has an extroardinary memory.  She can duplicate anything she's seen once.  She might not have thought anything of it at the time, but she would have remembered it.<br /><br /><b>Nynaeve's cures:</b>  On the same page, Nynaeve mentions something very important.  &quot;She had always known when the medicine would work beyond expectations, always felt the certainty when she said the crops would be especially good, or that the rains would come early or late.&quot; (EotW p.270)<br /><br />This shows there is something different and readily recognizable about those things, things we know she does with the One Power.  Compared with the bewilderment she showed over Egwene's miraculous recovery and it shows that she was not grasping the source then.<br /><br /><b>Conclusion:</b>  So with using Rand as the main evidence, and Nynaeve for verification, we can see that there the initial channelings of wilders' is done without grasping the Source.  We know both Rand and Nynaeve learned to grasp the Source and survived, and with Rand the sicknesses ended when he learned.  This shows that the root cause of wilders' sickness is channeling with grasping the Source.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-14 09:22:42
subject: Be'lal Has Been Revived
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<p>In his most recent Q/A, at http://www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html, Robert Jordan talked about soul transmigration and said, &quot;Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone ... unless the amount of balefire used is very small.&quot;  Since Moiraine used a small amount of Balefire due to her relative weakness compared to Rand and the Forsaken one can assume Robert Jordan is setting us up for the possibility that Be'lal has been revived.  If he has been revived then I see 2 primary people he could be.<br /><br /><b>Be'lal is Slayers Mystery Employer</b><br />Slayer seems to think that his employer is male and that none but a forsaken would attempt to use him but is confused as to why he was disguising his identity since no ther forsaken had done that before (http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.4_whats-up-dark/1.4.04_slayer-employer.html).  If this is the case then a reasonable person could assume that Be'lal is the employer since he is a male forsaken who would have reason to disguise himself so as not to disclose his revived status.  <br /><br /><b>Be'lal is Taim</b><br />It has been stated by Robert Jordan that Demandred is not Taim (http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.1_forsaken1/1.1.5_taimandred.html) but we still have all of the this great circumstantial evidence that Taim has knowledge that one would expect a Forsaken to have .(http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.5_blackornot/1.5.6_taim.html).  <br />If Be'lal has been revived then it would fit rather nicely to assume that Taim is Be'lal since all of the Demandred arguments can be transfered to Be'lal with the Min viewing of an invisible man with a dagger at Rand's throat being even more applicable to Be'lal then Demandred since Be'lal would be truly invisible since everyone assumes him dead.<br /><br />Any thoughts?  Am I reading too much into a Robert Jordan quote?<br /><br />Jesse<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-14 09:26:46
subject: Aviendha and Balefire
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<p>I believe Aviendha knows balefire, and may have reason to use it in the future.<br /><br />In The Dragon Reborn, chapter 38, &quot;Maidens of the Spear,&quot; we have Nynaeve, Elayne, and Egwene travelling down the river Erinin on their way to Tear. Our trio run into a group of Aiel looking for He Who Comes With The Dawn; they sent Aviendha, unarmed, to negotiate to have one of their injured healed.<br /><br />As we now know, the Wise Ones had already told Aviendha she would become one of them -- she would channel. Even in our first encounter with her, Jordan hints that she can channel. When Egwene &quot;opened herself to saidar, wove the flows in Air and held them ready&quot; to seize the Aiel, Aviendha immediately tries to convince her she meant no harm, &quot;I would never harm an Aes Sedai.&quot; Clearly, at some level, Aviendha was already aware of, and perhaps even familiar with, the One Power and its use.<br /><br />In a bit of foreshadowing, while Nynaeve is healing the injured Aiel, Aviendha recounts the Aiel story of how they once served the Aes Sedai, and the prophecy that &quot;if we fail the Aes Sedai again, they will destroy us.&quot; Elayne doesn't see how she could bring about their destruction, but Aviendha persists, &quot;But the old stories are all clear on one point. We must never fight Aes Sedai. If you bring your lightnings and your balefire against me, I will dance with them, but I will not harm you.&quot; Another paragraph down, as if to poke fun at us readers if we fail to see it coming, &quot;Balefire,&quot; Egwene said, &quot;Aviendha, what is balefire?&quot; Of course, nobody knows balefire anymore!<br /><br />Next chapter, &quot;Threads in the Pattern,&quot; the dynamic trio get themselves knocked out and kidnapped by some brigands. Perhaps agents of Rahvin? Who knows! Whoever they are, they're low enough to consort with Fades to negotiate a price for handing over our unconscious girls. The Aiel have been following them, and come to the rescue, taunting the Fades. Egwene barbecues the Myrddraal, Elayne smushes them together like play-doh, and &quot;something shot out of Nynaeve's hands -- a thin bar of white light&quot; which Egwene recognizes as none other than the mythical balefire.<br /><br />The Aiel who were in the room include Rhuarc and Aviendha. It is mentioned how all the Aiel unveil themselves a &quot;trifle hastily&quot; after Nynaeve's demonstration of balefire, and &quot;[o]ne of the women was Aviendha.&quot; As we learn much later, Aviendha has a Talent for reading weaves. In chapter 2 of A Path of Daggers, &quot;Unweaving,&quot; Aviendha reveals the reason why she unwove the gateway from the palace to the Kin's farm. &quot;The residues of a weave this large might be read 2 days from now,&quot; which would be a Bad Thing if a damane could do that. Of course, Merilille snorts and states the obvious, &quot;That is a rare Talent, girl.&quot; Aviendha confesses, &quot;Few can do it ... [b]ut I can.&quot;<br /><br />In chapter 55 of The Dragon Reborn, &quot;What is Written in Prophecy,&quot; after Moiraine smacks Be'lal down, it's mentioned that &quot;[t]he fighting had stopped dead, veiled men and men in breastplates alike standing as if stunned.&quot; Aiel were in the Heart of the Stone, and they need not all have been men. We know Rhuarc at least had met with Juilin outside the Stone, so Aviendha probably was in the Stone somewhere at the same time as Rhuarc. Perhaps she was in the Heart of the Stone when Moiraine unleashed her own dose of balefire? Pure speculation on my part.<br /><br />So, here's my case: Aviendha saw Nynaeve use balefire. She had a familiarity with the Power at the time; she could sense when a woman was holding it, ready to be used. She may even have seen Moiraine use balefire against Be'lal. She has a special Talent for reading the residue of weaves, and in general she is a strong channeler. In short, she can look at a new weave, even after it dissipates, and repeat it. She has seen balefire made by at least one woman: Nynaeve (in a reply to Columbo's &quot;The Homicide Reloaded&quot; theory, it is incorrectly asserted that Aviendha has only seen Rand's balefire). I don't think it's at all unreasonable that a strong, Talented woman like Aviendha would be able to recognize and remember a weave like that, even before she was formally trained to use the Power and form the weave herself.<br /><br />If Aviendha was ever inclined, she could &quot;remember&quot; balefire and take out a Forsaken, in a repeat of Moiraine vs. Be'lal.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-16 08:34:54
subject: Why Olver is not Gaidal Cain
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<p>Olver is too old.<br /><br />Even though time is different in Tel'Aran'Rhiod it is still paralell to the time of Randland.<br /><br />Let's put it like this:<br /><br />Tel'Aran'Rhiod:<br />______________________________________________________<br />Randland:<br />______________________________________________________<br />A______________B_______C________D___________E________F<br /><br />This is a timeline.<br />Now the time between A and B can be a month in Randland, but only a day in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Similarly, somthing can be a month in Tel'Aran'Rhiod but only a day in Randland.<br /><br />Now let's say A is about 10 years ago (When Olver was born)<br />B is when Egwene and begins to enter the dreamworld.<br />C is when Nynaeve begins to enter the dreamworld.<br />D is when Nynaeve sees Birgitte AND Gaidal Cain in the dreamworld.<br />E is Nynaeve's and Birgitte's battle with Moghedien.<br />And F is present time as we stand now.<br /><br />So we know Gaidal Cain left the dreamworld at some point between events D and E. Therefor he can't have been reborn as Olver. <br />(Unless ofcourse you think he took a living body, byt really? Would a hero of the Horn just take a body? That does not sound good, or right for a true hero.)<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-16 08:37:15
subject: The Struggle for the Sun Throne (New Spring info!)
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<p><b> I. Moiraine&#8217;s enemies </b><br /><br />In New Spring-The Novel, Moiraine has dangerous encounters with two men, who probably both tried to kill Moiraine.<br />I believe that Galldrian su Riatin Ri, the head of House Riatin at this time who became later King of Cairhien, sent them.<br /> <br /><b> II. The encounters </b><br /><br />In NS, ch.13, pg.179/180, Moiraine&#8217;s banker in Tar Valon, Mistress Ilain Dormaile, tells her that a man sought information on Moiraine&#8217;s accounts:<br /><br />&#8220;Nine days ago a man came to me, a Cairhienin, wearing the uniform of a captain in the Tower Guard and giving the name Ries Gorthanes. He spoke with cultured accents, an educated man, perhaps even nobility, and he was tall, a good three hands or more taller than me, and broud-shouldered, with a soldier&#8217;s bearing. He was clean-shaven, of course, and his face was well-proportioned, and good-looking despite a scar about an inch long, here&#8221; (then she shows that the scar is a line from the conrner of the left eye back toward the ear).<br /><br />Further on, Dormaile explains that the man had an order signed and sealed by the Amyrlin Seat to lay open Moiraine&#8217;s finances. <br />But she became suspicious and captured the false Guard captain. <br />Nevertheless he could escape before the Guard arrived; it was &#8220;a matter of bribery&#8221;.  <br /><br />In NS, ch.14, pg.201, shortly before Moiraine leaves Tar Valon by ship, she sees &#8220;Gorthanes&#8221; (if that is his true name, which is doubtful). <br /><br />The dockmistress points to Moiraine&#8217;s ship, the Bluewing, and talks to &#8220;a man who held his dark cloak around him tightly while he stared at the vessel.&#8221; With the sharper sight because of saidar Moiraine can make out &#8220;the man&#8217;s face, peering avidly from his hood. Mistress Dormaile&#8217;s description had been exact. He was not pretty, but good-looking, despite the scar at the corner of his left eye. And he was very tall for a Cairhienin, close to two paces.&#8221; <br /><br />Moiraine asks herself, &#8221;how had he found her here, and why had he been searching?&#8221;. <br />She considers, &#8220;for someone who wanted to stop the Hall&#8217;s scheme, someone who wanted another House than Damodred on the Sun Throne, the easiest way would be the death of the Hall&#8217;s candidate.&#8221;<br />Moiraine decides to take great care because Gorthanes &#8220;knew the vessel she traveled by, and likely every stop intended between here and the Borderlands.&#8221;<br /><br />Indeed, I believe Gorthanes wanted to kill Moiraine and sent someone after her.<br /><br />In NS, ch.21, pg.270/271, Moiraine&#8217;s group (Lan first) are attacked with arrows by Caniedrin. <br />He is a man from Kandor who was among Lan&#8217;s party in the Aiel War as we learn in NS, ch.1, pg.19, &#8220;an efficient and experienced soldier, an archer of rare skill, he was a cheerful killer who often laughed while he fought&#8221;. <br />He was even disappointed when the Aiel withdrew in NS, ch.1, pg.24. <br /><br />This shows already that Caniedrin is very unscrupulous and eager to kill. <br /><br />After the fight Bukama, Lan&#8217;s friend, asks the dying assassin why he tried to kill them, especially Lan. <br /><br />Caniedrin answers: &#8221;Gold. Why else? You still have..the Dark One&#8217;s luck...turning just then...or that shaft...would have found...your heart. He should have...told me...she&#8217;s Aes Sedai...instead of just saying...to kill her first.&#8221;<br /><br />Moiraine figures that the man was should kill her first, but since he knew how dangerous his former fellows are, &#8220;he had disobeyed his instructions and tried to kill Lan first. The most dangerous of them, as he must have thought.&#8221; (NS, ch.21, pg.272)<br /><br />Furthermore she believes that Gorthanes sent Caniedrin and even finds in his purse, among other things, ten gold crowns, &#8220;fat coins with the Rising Sun of Cairhien on one side and her uncle&#8217;s profile on the other. A fitting footnote in the history of House Damodred.&#8221;<br /><br /><b> III. Who wanted Moiraine&#8217;s death and why? </b><br /><br />These were the incidents, the question is who was really behind it?<br /><br />If someone sends an assassin to kill a &#8220;good guy&#8221; we immediately consider that the Shadow could be behind it.<br />Moiraine searches for the Dragon Reborn, and like the BA killed other searchers they could have tried to kill Moiraine, too.<br /><br />Against this speaks that the BA didn&#8217;t know that Moiraine searches the Dragon Reborn. <br /><br />This becomes e.g. clear in NS, ch.26, pg.324, when the BA Merean asks Moiraine in their fight: &#8221;You appear too often, Moiraine[...]I fear I must ask you how, and why.&#8221;<br />Obviously the BA doesn&#8217;t know that Moiraine or Siuan are searchers.<br /><br />Another important plot connected to Moiraine in NS is that the Hall plans that Moiraine follows the late King Laman on the Sun Throne in Cairhien.<br /><br />In NS, ch.5, pg.94, it is told that Moiraine&#8217;s uncle King Laman was killed along with both of his brothers. <br /><br />Then in NS, ch.6, pg.110, Moiraine has to explain the Sitter Jarna Malari (who was also the Head of the BA at this time) who she thinks will ascend to the Sun Throne now.<br /><br />Moiraine says that the Throne will perhaps pass to another House. <br />Jarna seems to agree and states that &#8220;House Damodred has acquired an ill reputation that Laman only made worse&#8221;. She tells that Moiraine&#8217;s half-brother Taringail is denied to become King by his marriage to the Quenn of Andor (it's a law). <br /><br />Also Moiraine&#8217;s older sisters can&#8217;t get the Sun Throne since no one would support them for certain reasons, &#8220;even within House Damodred&#8221;. <br /><br />After several other Aes Sedai question Moiraine in a similar way, she realizes that the Hall wants her on the Sun Throne. This scheme shall help to increase the influence of the White Tower. <br />Since apparently also the BA wants that, as Jarna&#8217;s interest shows, we can negate that the Shadow was the master of Gorthanes.<br /><br />This means that obviously a political rival tried to kill Moiraine and thus spoil the Hall&#8217;s plan.<br /><br />As said within House Damodred was no one who could have any hope to get the Throne. <br />Moiraine had the best claim, especially with the support of the White Tower.<br />Therefore it&#8217;s clear that another powerful House tried to kill the White Tower&#8217;s puppet.<br /><br />Probably the most powerful House in Cairhien besides House Damodred was House Riatin with its head Galldrian.<br /><br />We know from the other books that Galldrian indeed won the succession and became King of Cairhien. <br />He was a powerful and proud man but also very unscrupulous, skilled in Daes Dae&#8217;mar. <br />Galldrian hired e.g the thugs who killed Thom&#8217;s lover Dena in TGH, ch.34 (and was killed by Thom for this).<br /><br />Gorthanes looks like a Cairhien noble. <br />I believe that he is one of Galldrian&#8217;s men and was sent to Tar Valon because Galldrian figured that the White Tower could use and support the Aes Sedai Moiraine Damodred so that she ascends the Sun Throne. A very powerful opponent. <br /><br />Therefore Gorthanes first task was to investigate Moiraine&#8217;s finances. <br />Galldrian could figure that Mistress Dormaile is Moiraine&#8217;s banker in Tar Valon because as Moiraine considers in NS, ch.13, pg.179, &#8220;her father had banked with Ilain Dormaile&#8217;s elder brother, who still handled her own accounts in Cairhien, making her choice easy in Tar Valon&#8221;.<br /><br />It also fits that a man like Galldrian would dare to forge a false order of the Amyrlin for his benefit.<br /><br />Certainly Galldrian feared that Moiraine could use her money to bribe other Houses so that they would support her in a possible struggle for the Sun Throne or that she could hire assassins as he did. <br /><br />Thus he had to know who maybe got money from Moiraine. Of course Gorthanes failed. Maybe because of this Galldrian decided to order Moiraine&#8217;s death to be sure that the White Tower won&#8217;t beat him.<br /><br />He couldn't know that Moiraine had absolutely no desire to become Queen and spoiled the plan of the Hall already by sneaking out of Tar Valon.<br /><br />Gorthanes spied on Moiraine and saw that she went to the Borderlands. <br />Therefore he hired Caniedrin (remember the ten gold crowns from Cairhien in his purse), who knew the Borderlands and was an experienced soldier and killer, to assassinate Moiraine. <br /><br />Although Caniedrin failed, Galldrian became King nevertheless since the Tower couldn&#8217;t use Moiraine as wanted.<br /><br />After Galldrian successfully ascended the Sun Throne, there wasn&#8217;t the need anymore to kill Moiraine; the White Tower was beaten.<br /><br /><b> IV. Conclusion: Galldrian tried to kill Moiraine </b><br /><br />I believe there is no person who matches Gorthanes' description in the main books. <br />Maybe we will see him in the future, though. <br />If he still lives, he should be between fourty or fifty now.<br /><br />Anyway, it&#8217;s safe to assume that Galldrian sent Gorthanes to spy on and finally kill Moiraine, obviously the White Tower's puppet in his eyes, with Caniedrin&#8217;s help to secure his plan to become King.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-20 11:54:18
subject: Math Models and the Song of Saidin
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<p>Fairly recently, a theory proposing a simplified mathematical model to represent the universe of Randland elicited some slightly cranky responses. I hope to help calm down the Foes of Excessive Analysis by explaining how the concept of Number has been important to Western ideas about the construction of the universe, and how RJ's frequent musical metaphors for the One Power suggest that our number-crunching friend, far from indulging in an irrelevant over-analytical exercise, is touching on ideas that are extremely relevant to the construction of the WOT-World. I'd also like to suggest that these ideas tie in with the Song sought by the Tu'athan and the Seed-Song of the ancient Aiel, and offer a few related thoughts on Steddings and why some Talents work inside them.<br /><br />I'll try to avoid too much detail and too many names; please forgive me if this seems overly general to you, and feel free to elaborate!<br /><br />Efforts to describe the universe in terms of relationships among numbers were passed down in Western European culture from ancient Greek philosophers. The Greeks saw Number as the glue that held the universe together. The poster-child for this theory was the observation (usually credited to Pythagoras) that the interval between two musical pitches  can be expressed by the ratio of two sounding string lengths. Most important was the fact that for the sweetest intervals, the ratios were extremely simple (2:1 for an octave, 3:2 for a fifth, 4:3 for a fourth). The simplicity of these ratios made the theory more convincing to them, and a great deal of ink was spilled arguing about the most elegant mathematical means for deriving other intervals used in Greek musical scales. Indeed, constructing intervals with the assistance of a &quot;monochord&quot; (a single-stringed instrument existing solely for that purpose) became a sort of &quot;secret handshake&quot; among members of the Pythagorean school---&quot;Ya wanna play on our block? Let's first see you use the MONOCHORD!&quot;<br />Simplistically put, to the Greeks, Universe=Number=Music. (Dance also comes into it somewhere, but let's leave it at that.)<br /><br />These ideas were passed into Mediaeval and Renaissance musical thought mainly through the late Roman writer Boethius, who tried to collate what he knew of Greek theory. Boethius's writings on this and other topics were smash hits for over a thousand years---to be taken seriously, you had to quote him somewhere, even if you had never read him and completely misunderstood what he was about.<br /><br />Each treatise had to begin with an obligatory nod to the Greek idea of Universe=Number=Music, as passed through Boethius. It went something like this:<br /><br />A) There are three kinds of music.<br /><br />1) Musica Universalis, or universal music, often called the Music of the Spheres. This is music in the mathematical sense, the numbers governing the relationships of the heavenly bodies and holding the world together;<br /><br />2) Musica Humana, or human music, which is a bit similar, but on a smaller, human level;<br /><br />3) Musica Instrumentalis, or instrumental music, which is what we normally call music: vocal and instrumental sounds, organised in some fashion.<br /><br />B) Having said that (the treatise would continue), we will concern ourselves only with the third type. On the names and places of the notes...<br /><br />The idea of the Music of the Spheres, and of our music as a reflection or expression (if necessarily a poor and imperfect one) of this Universal Music has been present in the Western ltierary tradition for centuries, and has inspired many an author and composer. A very beautiful modern example that might be known to many in this forum is Douglas Adams's &quot;Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency&quot;.<br /><br />Now to return to WOT:<br />There is a force, a universal glue, known as the One Power. Humans can tap this Power in small and imperfect ways. The Power itself and the act of channeling it are often compared to Song, but Song in a very abstract way: no one is suggesting making a transcription. The two most powerful sa'angreal are described as gigantic spheres, and the male one is the subject of the longest and most powerful musical metaphor of the entire series. Music of the Spheres!<br /><br />Not even the AOL Aes Sedai seem to understand very well how the Power actually works; they are great at using it, but not so good at explaining. However, both AOL and &quot;modern&quot; models of the universe (Pattern, Age Lace, Wheel...) emphasise order and betray an interest in Number, and mention the Power as the driving, connecting force.<br /><br />An attempt to make a simplified mathematical model of the WOT universe and the forces that hold it together and affect it (the Power, the Creator, and the DO) is very much in keeping with philosophical underpinnings of the way the WOT universe seems to be constructed. Of course the model is not complete or particularly elaborate: it's rather like the Greek monochord, a symbol for a much larger concept.<br /><br />Now for the Song sought by the Tinkers, presumed to be  related to the singing of the ancient Aiel: the description can be found in TSR, &quot;The Dedicated&quot;, pp.302-303. A bunch of Ogier (who as far as we know can't channel) and non-channeling Aiel sing a Song, which is somehow used by the Nym-construct in his life-imparting Dance. I see two possibilities:<br /><br />1) There is a Talent called Seed-Singing that happens to be extremely common among ancient Aiel (expressed in every male that we know of). This Talent is very weird, in that it can be expressed only through multi-racial co-operation, and is entirely useless without the presence of an artificial construct. I hold this to be somewhat unlikely.<br /><br />2) The Nym, by its nature, can make things grow (which we in fact observe at the end of TEOTW). The presence of the Ogier and Aiel is accompanimental; through singing songs evocative of the Music of the Spheres (the Song of the One Power), they help the Nym (which is, after all, a One-Power construct) to organise its ability and perform it efficiently. This would make the Aiel a highly-specialised, somewhat seclusive (because philosophically extreme) group of people, distinguished from others only, perhaps, by their culture and (due to inbreeding?) a genetic predilection for good voices and splendid ears.<br /><br />This second possibility is more consistent with my understanding of how non-channeling Talents work. Of course they, too, are connected to the Power; everything is. The difference is that these Talents are passive; except for Padan Fain's weird abilities, which I am very confused about, they all involve observing or sensing something: seeing Ta'veren, seeing auras...<br /><br />Why do these abilities function inside a stedding? Why can Verin sense the soullessness (I like that word!) of the formerly Way-faring Ogier inside the Stedding (TGH)? I don't think Steddings (or Gholam, or Mat's Foxhead) are immune to the Power. If the Power is the all-pervasive driving and binding force of the universe, it must also prevade Steddings and Gholam. What Steddings block is active channeling, the trained sensing and use of the Power. It's as though a specific organ, lacking in non-channelers, is anesthetised for the duration. The special senses governing passive Talents are obviously located in a different organ, and thus unaffected.<br /><br />What are the Tinkers looking for? By now, their Seed-Song has grown in their minds into an ideal cure-all for the woes of the world. They are now looking for the Music of the Spheres, the Song of the One Power. Even if they ever get permission from the modern Aiel to look in the glass-column ter'angreal (as has been suggested by one person in this forum), they will be sorely disappointed, because they will find only a poor human/ogier evocation of this Song, utterly useless without the Nym, who are lost in the past. <br /><br />To sum up the &quot;Musical Theory&quot; briefly:<br /><br />1) Music of the Spheres: the One Power<br /><br />2) Human Music: what channelers and Talented people do<br /><br />3) Instrumental Music: what the ancient Aiel do (intentionally evocative of higher forms of music) and what Asmodean and Thom do (not intentionally evocative of higher forms of music, although you never know with Asmodean).<br /><br />Tomatoes?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-20 12:02:17
subject: The Forsaken's Fringed Footwear
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<p>I haven&#8217;t seen a theory about Demandred for a while so I thought I&#8217;d write one.<br /><br />I know, but not who, Demandred is.<br /><br />In Shadows Sleeping (TDR) Perrin has a dream where he sees three scenes. The first is in an inns common room a man offers him wine and the chance to be a blacksmith again, the man&#8217;s Ishamael. He then sees a dark haired woman in white, Lanfear.<br /><br />The last scene is the important one, two men meet together and talk, then the man Perrin just saw in the inn appears and interrupts the meeting.<br /><br />The three men are all obviously Forsaken but who? The first man is tall, dark and slender and has some grey hair. He wears a dark green coat embroidered with golden leaves. Has a gold worked belt and dagger and his boots have a golden fringe. Those fringed boots stand out; they&#8217;re fashionable among Illianer lords, whoever this guy is he is in Illian.<br /><br />The other is shorter and stockier than the first and has white hair. He&#8217;s wearing a Tairen coat and his boots are worked with silver. The white hair would be enough but the coat proves it beyond doubt, this man is Be&#8217;lal who is posing as the High Lord Samon.<br /><br />Now the question to ask is: Who is the first man? It&#8217;s a good question. I&#8217;ve tried to answer it. First off list all the male Forskaen. We can immediately remove several suspects from the list. Ishmael, Be&#8217;lal are already accounted for and Aginor and Balthamal are dead. That leaves, Demandred, Sammael, Rahvin and Asmodean. But Rahvin and Sammael can be removed from the list quickly using process of elimination.<br /> <br /><b>Rahvin</b><br />Rhavin was in Camelyn impersonating Lord Gaebril, he wouldn&#8217;t be wearing Illianer boots.<br /><br /><b>Sammael</b><br />Sammael is short, stocky and blonde. Not tall, slender and dark.<br /><br />That leaves Demandred and Asmodean who are the only possibilities.<br />Both are dark, Demandred was almost as tall as LTT and Asmodean was called taller than most by Mat in Imre Stand (TSR).<br /><br />Now both their appearances match the description so we have to try other evidence instead.<br /><br /><b>Evidence against Asmodean</b><br /><br />1)In Pale Shadows (TFoH) Asmodean mentioned a saying he came across in Arad Doman (what he was doing there is anyone&#8217;s guess) and Illian and Arad Doman are on opposite sides of the Wetlands.<br /><br />2)The Guide says that after being released from the Shayol Ghul Asmodean allied himself with Lanfear and ended up teaching Rand until he died in Camelyn, that passage is pretty final and doesn&#8217;t leave any hints of any other plans.<br /><br />3) There is no evidence to link Asmodean to any other plots or plans throughout the series, I doubt he was up to anything other than working with Lanfear.<br /><br /><br />The third man can&#8217;t be Aginor, Balthamal, Ishmael or Be&#8217;lal. He&#8217;s not Sammael, Rhavin or Asmodean. The only man left is Demandred, he looks the part and there is not evidence to place him anywhere.<br /><br />To clear up a few points:<br />1) By Illian I mean the country not the city. Demandred is on some noble&#8217;s country estate hundreds of miles from Sammael or Rand.<br />2) The Forsaken have never been seen to assume disguises to meet with each other, ever therefore it cannot be Sammael changing his appearance in T&#8217;A&#8217;R.<br />3) Demandred is not Mazim Taim.<br /><br />Conclusion:<br />Demandred is in Illian disguised as a lord.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-20 12:12:33
subject: Logain's Halo
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<p>I believe the much daunted glory Logain will be receiving in the future has nothing to do with the Black Tower. Instead, I think it has to do with the Seanchen. <br /><br />The halo Min sees has been described thusly:<br /><br />&quot;She had never before seen a flaring halo around his (Logain's) head, radiant in gold and blue.&quot; <br />The Shadow Rising (284)<br /><br />Now in the BWB, the Seanchen banner is described in a &quot;fact-box&quot; on page 157:<br /><br />&quot;The Imperial Banner is a wide boarder of royal blue around which a golden hawk in flight clutches three lightning bolts in its claws.&quot; <br /><br />The final piece of the puzzle hails from CoT, in which Logain has come to visit Rand. Rand sends him, along with Bashere and Loial, to visit the Seanchen. Page 559(hardback):<br /><br />&quot;I am sending the three of you to arrange a truce with the Seanchen.&quot;<br /><br />This truce will happen very soon, as we see from the final page of the book. Page 680(hardback):<br /><br />&quot;The Seanchen are amenable,&quot; Bashere replied. &quot;Crazy as loons, but amenable. They require a meeting with you in person, though.&quot;<br /><br />And it is widely accepted that Anath is in fact Semirhage. I believe Rand will meet with Suroth and the false Daughter of the Nine Moons, and will be attacked/captured by her. Logain will be accompanying him, along with Bashere, and Logain will kill her for Rand. He does have a bit of a problem killing women, as we all know. This might make him trust Logain enough to give him control of the Black Tower (or what's left of it), but that is another theory for another time.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-20 12:17:11
subject: Verin's Potions (New Spring Info!)
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<p>We know from the regular books in the series that Verin uses a stupor inducing drug on her fellow sisters when they are already weary/sore to do a &quot;suggestion&quot; (pseudo-form of compulsion) on them.  In the regular series, the suggestion was that they each need to help the Dragon Reborn reach the last battle.<br /><br />Well, in New Spring (the novel, not the short story in Legends), we see that Verin gives a &quot;sleep inducing potion&quot; to both Moiraine and Suian when they are already vulnerable (as in weary/sore).   Both girls say that they take it willingly and that it helps them sleep.<br /><br />Now we know that their Accepted quarters doors in the Tower did not have locks and that anyone can come in at anytime.   So ...  while they were under the effects of Verin's potion, she could have slipped in and weaved her &quot;suggestion&quot; (pseudo-form of compulsion).   My new theory is that she did just that and that the &quot;suggestion&quot; was to &quot;track down and find the Dragon Reborn&quot;.    Even though they were both never assigned this task by the Amrylin or anyone else, they both felt compelled to find him and never give up.<br /><br />What do you think?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-01-20 12:17:41
subject: The Plumed Serpent, Sun Renewal, and World-Cycles
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<p>The Dragon has a lot of similarities to the Mayan god Kukulcan, the word being interpreted as &quot;plumed serpent&quot;; very much like the creature on the Dragon Banner. Later, the Toltecs and Aztecs called him Quetzalcoatl. The &quot;feathered snake&quot; representation began about 1200 BC. It symbolizes the blending of Heaven and Earth; Rand is believed to be the Creator's human surrogate, which fits with this symbol. Quetzalcoatl originally arrived on a boat from across the water. He organized the cities and established laws; Rand is trying to unite the various peoples against the Shadow.<br /><br />Quetzalcoatl was believed to be the son of Camaxtli and Chimalma, who died giving birth to him; another parallel with Rand's mother Shaiel (Tigraine). His birthplace was Michatlauhco, which literally means &quot;Fish Deeps&quot;. He was raised by his grandfathers.<br /><br />Quetzalcoatl was believed to have allowed the Spanish to enter Aztec territories. The Aztecs thought that Cortes was a reincarnation of their god returning from the East (where the Sun rises), as was promised in legend; he was regarded as a god of light. Lews Therin was &quot;Lord of the Morning&quot;, and Rand was born just before sunrise. This is where the connections to the Wheel of Time become convoluted. The Seanchan eventually return to their old lands, and presumably will be &quot;allowed&quot; to stay after negotiating with the Dragon to help fight the Shadow.<br /><br />I believe that at about the time this meeting with Rand takes place, the Shadow will become much stronger, causing a dramatic shift of immediate concerns for everyone. Food will become even more scarce, disease will spread with the increase in pestilential animals (as with the Black Death), disturbing visions such as ghosts will increase to break people's will, and finally the sky will become dark. The Aztecs were very much concerned with the Sun, which they believed must be renewed through sacrifice. Eclipses scared them out of their wits, and food became a great concern for them as their cities grew and trees were cut down.<br /><br />The Aztecs believed in world-cycles. The one in which Quetzalcoatl ruled was the fifth since creation. They also believed that he descended to the underworld to gather the remains of people from previous cycles, upon which he sprinkled his own blood to create new human beings. This is one of those details that really makes you think, since Rand will also spill his own blood, perhaps in self-sacrifice to save all people (not just the living) from the Shadow.<br /><br />There's still more interesting details.<br /><br />One story told of Quetzalcoatl being seduced by Tezcatlipoca; we should all know who this refers to in the books. In remorse, he jumped into a funeral pyre, and after dying his heart became what was called the morning-star, or what we call the planet Venus; more connections with the morning (dawn), light, and self-sacrifice.<br /><br />Another story said that he exiled himself by sailing away on a raft made of snakes; this brings to mind the funeral barge viewing of Min, and the snakes may be related to the tail-eating symbol.<br /><br />Late in the Aztec civilization, most symbols attached to Quetzalcoatl related to death and resurrection, presumably because the civilization itself was dying, hopefully to rise again with the return of the god that brought it into existence.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-04 07:02:30
subject: Sealing the Bore to Win The Last Battle
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<p>Hey, all.  First time theorizer, so here goes...<br /><br />Of course, it's not a very humble first attempt: How will Rand &amp; Co. win the Last Battle?  I believe that it has less to do with Rand as a channeler, and more with him and his companions as ta'veren.<br /><br />The Bore is a hole in the Pattern, it seems, into the Dark One's prison.  Based on Fel's remarks, it seems that the Seals must be destroyed (the &quot;rubble must be cleared&quot;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> in order to fully close off the DO's prison (which, as Fel argues in LoC, must be done; the prison isn't merely re-sealed, it is re-formed in its wholeness).  The One Power seal is like an imperfect bandage; it covers the wound in the Pattern, but doesn't allow the Pattern itself to heal.<br /><br />I would propose (and I believe others have said this, too) that the Pattern could &quot;grow back&quot; or &quot;heal itself,&quot; or perhaps &quot;re-weave,&quot; but (a) the Dark One is clawing his way out, and (b) the seals are in the way.  What if the seals could be cleared out, and the work of the Pattern could be &quot;sped up&quot; so that it outpaces the DO's ability to widen the Bore?<br /><br />I think the Pattern can re-weave itself more quickly, with help.  Like, perhaps, the presence of a catalyst that would bend the threads of the Pattern more quickly, more powerfully.  In other words: the most powerful ta'veren known, Rand, along with Mat and Perrin AND history's other most powerful ta'veren, the Heroes of the Horn.  RJ continually points out that around Rand, Mat, and Perrin, the Pattern works differently; they pull at it, and it weaves around them.  What would happen if the Heroes of the Horn (all powerfully ta'veren, IIRC) and these three were all present at Shayol Ghul when the seals were destroyed?  Perhaps the Pattern would re-weave itself, closing the DO's prison completely, until the Wheel turns again to &quot;Lanfear's&quot; opening of the Bore in the first place.  Thus, Rand and Co. defeat the DO not through chanelling, or through military might, but simply by *surviving* at Shayol Ghul with the seals gone long enough for the Pattern to re-close the prison.<br /><br />Of course, their work might be helped with some additional Threads in the Pattern present, such as the Aiel.  Here's what I think will happen: as the Blight pours out countless Shadowspawn, and Gateways and Waygates open up throughout Randland, Rand, Mat, Perrin, Rand's three wives and some other heavy-hitting channelers for protection, will Travel to Shayol Ghul with a massive contingent of Aiel.  There, Rand will break the final seal(s), letting all Hell break loose.  Most of the Shadowspawn will be outside the Blight, never mind away from SG, so you might see the echos of The Lord of the Rings.  The rest of Randland's armies will fight to preserve the world, knowing that all they are is a target for the Shadowspawn to attack, so that they are drawn away from SG.  <br /><br />Who knows what kind of nightmares will be let loose when the seals are broken?  Just surviving will be hard enough.  But here's a little more: I think the Chodean Kal will come back into play.  Rand will need to trust someone with the male access key, and I think that will be Logain.  Logain and Nynaeve will lead a circle, with the CK, to erect a barrier around SG to try and contain the DO's touch through the Bore.  (Perhaps a 2-way shield that will keep the DO's evil contained AND keep Shadowspawn from returning to SG, because if the ta'veren and the living threads are killed, the Pattern won't re-form fast enough, and the DO will be on the road to breaking free.)  Think of how cool it would be for Rand and the Aiel to be &quot;screaming defiance&quot; at ground zero of hell on earth while Logain, Nynaeve and others try to hold the nightmares in so that the world is not destroyed, while the armies of Randland try to fend off Trollocs and Dreadlords long enough until the DO is cut off from the world!<br /><br />Oh, and here's a bit more, over the top.  Remember &quot;the song,&quot; and how it seemed to speed up growth?  Perhaps it could speed up the weaving of the Pattern.  Maybe the Song will be rediscovered, and the Tinkers will come to Shayol Ghul with the Aiel to Sing.  <br /><br />OK, flame away.  Thanks for your patience in reading this.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-04 07:05:29
subject: The Sisters Pledge (New Spring!)
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<p>Normally I wouldn't submit a theory without a huge amount of textual evidence to back it up. Unfortunately there has been something bothering me about A New Spring that appears completely off stage, meaning there are no quotes, just speculation.<br /><br />In A New Spring the Black Ajah tortured the reigning Amyrlin, and all though they obtained very little information from her, they did learn that the Dragon had been reborn. <br /><br />They proceeded to cause the deaths of every single sister the Amyrlin had asked to help in the search for the Dragon Reborn. <br /><br />Despite these deaths (and given the location and times it seems reasonable to assume the sisters would have been tortured for information) the Black Ajah did not obtain any information as to the date of the Dragon Reborn's birth. I have trouble believing that 5 sisters were tortured for information about the Dragon Reborn's birth and none of them gave the date of his birth unless there was a factor involved that we don't know about. Now it seems to me there are several possibilities<br /><br />1) Tamra might not have told her searchers the date of the Dragon's birth. While this certainly accounts for the 5 not telling the Black Ajah, it doesn't make practical sense. Tamra could not have expected her searchers to have any chance unless she gave them as much information as possible. Even with the date it took Moiraine 20 years, I can't believe the sisters would have been expected to do without it.<br /><br />2) The Black Ajah might not have tortured the sisters for information. This simply seems unlikely because the Black Ajah is quite willing to take any means necessary to accomplish a goal and this was the most important goal in their history.<br /><br />3) All 5 sisters managed to hold it back. Given that the other two possibilities are so unlikely this seems to be the logical explanation. The question though is how. Since most of the sister disappeared (what I mean is that they could have been held for days before or after their supposed death without anyone knowing) it seems that the Black Ajah would have had plenty of time to torture all the information out them. Given our past viewings of Black Ajah torture (Temaile anyone) it seems they shouldn't have been able to hold it back.<br /><br />So here is my solution. I believe that something prevented the sisters from revealing the information no matte what. My guess. The Three Oaths. When Tamra told the sisters about the date of the Dragon's rebirth all she would have had to of done was this. Have them swear under the light and by their hope of salvation never to reveal when the Dragon was Reborn. This simple precaution prevents the Black Ajah from gaining the information they need to find the Dragon Reborn<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-04 07:06:16
subject: Egwene's (Unrecognized) Talent
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<p>Egwene has a (minor) talent that is not yet realized by her (or anyone else for that matter). This talent is that she has the ability to duplicate the affects of ta'veren over a very small area.<br /><br />This talent is described very briefly in the Big White Book on page 213.<br /><br /><i>&quot;Minor Talents are seldom given a name, such as the ability to see ta'veren or to duplicate the chance-twisting effect of ta'veren (though in a very small area rarely covering more than a few square feet).&quot;</i><br /><br />My reasoning for her having this talent is all circumstantial, but in my opinion, there is no doubt. All of this of course could be used to show that she actually ta&#8217;veren herself, however, we&#8217;ve seen far too many people with the talent to see or sense ta&#8217;veren for this to get buy us (Loial, Siuan, Nicola, Logain).<br /><br />What I feel is the biggest piece of evidence comes in PoD when Talmanes says to her<br /><br /><i>&quot;Tell me, are you sure you are not ta'veren, too?&quot;</i><br />PoD, p. 367 <br /><br />Remember that Talmanes has quite a bit of experience and knowledge of what is like to be around ta'veren - this comment comes shortly after he describes Mat's need to the south and a pulling effect.<br /><br />This very week by itself - certainly not court of law material. But when looked at in terms of literary devices, it becomes much more. This is a talent that is not discussed in any of the books, so this quote is RJ's way of saying that Egwene does indeed have this talent.<br /><br />Another strong piece of evidence come in LoC when Rand is asking Egwene to tell him where Elayne is (she&#8217;s in Salidar at this point). Here is the quote:<br /><br /><i>&#8221;Egwene opened her mouth &#8211; and realized that she was about to tell him all she know about Salidar. Barely in time she clamped her teeth shut so hard her jaws ached, and opened herself to saidar. The sweet feel of life, so strong it overwhelmed everything else, seemed to help; slowly the urge to talk began to ebb.&#8221;<br /><br />&#8220;He sat back with a sigh, and she stared at him wide-eyed. It was one thing to know he was the strongest ta&#8217;veren since Artur Hawking, but quite something else to become caught up in it herself.&#8221;</i><br />LoC 423<br /><br />Here we see Egwene&#8217;s ta&#8217;veren mimicking talent working counter to Rand. In addition RJ throws us a bone by referencing ta&#8217;veren in the very next paragraph.<br /><br />Her manifestation of this talent further supported by Egwene's endless number of extraordinary circumstances. Some examples are...<br /><br />-That Aes Sedai swore oaths to HER - some without prompting (Theodrin and Faolin) and others with (Myrelle and Nisao) (aCoS pages 209 and 243, respectively). Theodrin and Faolin swore their oaths without prompting in an event that is very similar to when the first Aes Sedai swore fealty to Rand &#8211; which was a classic example of his ta&#8217;vereness; and I believe a clear example of Egwene&#8217;s talent at work. Myrelle and Nisao were basically blackmailed, but how often have we seen Aes Sedai so easily cowed; and into doing something that had never been done before? Again, I feel this is another example of her talent at work.<br /><br />-Her invitation to study with the Wise Ones. The Aiel aren&#8217;t exactly known for their openness, and the first time Amys meets Egwene in TAR, Amys invites her to study in the waste. This is clearly unprecedented and another example of Egwene imitating Ta&#8217;veren.<br /><br />-That Gareth Bryne swore oaths to HER (not the Amyrlin or the Tower in exile).<br /><br />-The attempted assassination of her when she was a novice &#8211; notable since the gray man sent to kill her didn&#8217;t succeed. The bolt from his crossbow only nicks her ear. She thinks:<br /><i>&#8221;If I had not stopped just then&#8230;.If I hadn&#8217;t&#8230;The quarrel would have gone right through her head, and would probably have killed Nynaeve, too&#8230;&#8221;</i> tDR pg 185. <br />This is classic ta&#8217;veren at work.<br /><br />-Her rapid rise to accepted &#8211; this was also unprecedented.<br /><br />- The Amyrlin&#8217;s use of her in hunting the BA when she is only a novice &#8211; again unprecedented, and arguably a huge error in judgment by Siuan.<br /> <br />-Her rapid rise to Amyrlin &#8211; again unprecedented<br /><br />-Her ability to discover lost abilities (weaving gateways &#8211; to TAR and travelling, making of cuendillar, etc.)<br /><br />And many more...<br />The pattern that emerges is that unprecedented events follow Egwene around &#8211; a pretty clear indication that she is influencing the pattern around her.<br /><br /><br />So to sum it all up again, Egwene has the (minor) talent to duplicate ta'veren within a limited area around her.<br /><br />The final note is this: I have made a case (and a darn good one IMHO <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> ) for Egwene. Cases could definitely be made for other characters we have seen. Elayne and Nynaeve fit the pattern about as well Egwene &#8211; but without the literary devices inserted by RJ. Cadsuane would certainly be another candidate. I could also see cases made for Siuan, Moiraine, Aviendha, Taim (assuming talents between male and female don&#8217;t differ so much), and all of the forsaken. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-04 07:07:47
subject: Intuitively Obviously Revealed!
body:
<p>After much thought, research, and mind opening beverages, I have finally come to a definitive explanation for RJ&#8217;s infamous &#8216;Intuitively Obvious&#8217; comment. Now bear with me. Below is the direct quote from the end of TFoH when Asmodean takes that final visit to the wine closet. Some very careful reading of the passage literally spells out all the answers we love to debate endlessly about. So, with this, we can finally stop beating the dead horse (it was a bloody pulp years ago, and certainly starting to smell funny).<br /><br /><i>Tucking his harp under his arm, Asmodean drifted away from Mat and Aviendha. He enjoyed playing, but not for a pair who did not listen, much less appreciate. He was not sure what had happened that morning, and not sure he wanted to be sure. Too many Aiel had expressed surprise at seeing him, had claimed they had seen him dead; he did not want details.  There was a long gash down the wall in front of him. He knew what made that sharp edge, that surface as slick as ice, smoother than any hand could have polished in a hundred years.<br />Idly &#8211; but with a shiver, too &#8211; he wondered whether being reborn in this fashion made him a new man. He did not think so. Immortality was gone. That was a gift of the <b>Gr</b>eat Lord; he used that name in his head, whatever <b>a</b>l&#8217;Thor demanded on his tongue. That was proof <b>en</b>ough that he was himself. Immortality gone &#8211; he knew it must be imagination, yet sometimes he thought he coul<b>d</b> feel time dr<b>a</b>gging at him, pu<b>l</b>ling him towar<b>d</b> a grave he had never thought to meet &#8211; and drawing the l<b>i</b>ttle of saidin he coul<b>d</b> was like drinking sewage. He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead. Rahvin either, but Lanfear especially, for what she had done to him. He would laugh when each of the others died, too, and most for the last. <b>It </b>was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he would cling to that tuft of grass as long as he could. The roots would give way eventually, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.<br />He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. &#8220;You? No<b>!</b>&#8221; The word still hung in the air when death took him.</i><br />TFoH pg. 960-961 (paperback)<br /><br />I have taken the painstaking time to analyze this section. You can see that I have conveniently bolded the key letters in the passage. I can only tell you that the selection of these precise letters is the product of my personal genius, but in hindsight it is clearly intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer. Cracking RJ&#8217;s code is a crowning achievement in my life. Well enough giving speeches to myself in front of the mirror. Below is the message that RJ so obviously placed via the bolded letters above:<br /><br /><b>Graendal did it! </b><br /><br />As you can see, no word games get around this. Graendal did indeed kill Asmodean. But wait! Further inspection with this method reveals even more startling insights.<br /><br /><i>Tucking hi<b>s</b> harp under his arm, Asmodean drifted away from Mat and Aviendha. He enjoyed playing, but not for a pair who did not <b>l</b>isten, much less <b>a</b>ppreciate. He was not sure what had happened that morning, and not sure he wanted to be sure. Too man<b>y</b> Aiel had expressed surprise at seeing him, had claimed they had seen him dead; he did not want details.  Th<b>er</b>e was a long gash down the wall in front of him. He knew what made that sharp edge, that surface as slick as ice, smoother than any hand could have polished in a hundred years.<br />Idly &#8211; but with a shiver, too &#8211; he wondered whether being reborn in this fashion made him a new man. He <b>did not</b> think so. Immortality was gone. That was a gift of the Great Lord; he used that name in his head, whatever al&#8217;Thor demanded on his tongue. That was proof enough that he was himself. Immortality gone &#8211; he knew it must be imagination, yet sometimes he thought he could feel time dragging at him, pulling him toward a grave he had never thought to meet &#8211; and drawing the little of saidin he could was like drinking sewage. He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead. Rahvin either, but Lanfear especially, for what she had <b>do</b>ne to him. He would laugh when each of the others died, too, and most for the last. <b>It</b> was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he would cling to that tuft of grass as long as he could. The roots would give way eventually, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.<br />He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. &#8220;You? No<b>!</b>&#8221; The word still hung in the air when death took him.</i><br />TFoH pg. 960-961 (paperback)<br /><br /><b>Slayer did not do it! </b><br /><br />As if it wasn&#8217;t enough, we have another message screaming at us. Some would argue that RJ could see Etzel&#8217;s argument 10 years into the future. I&#8217;m not sure about that &#8211; I think that is taking things just a bit too far. Hold on, I&#8217;m not done yet&#8230;<br /><br /><i>Tucking his harp under his arm, Asmodean drifted away from Mat and Aviendha. He enjoyed playing, but not for a pair who did not listen, much less appreciate. He was not sure what had happened that morning, and not sure he wanted to be sure. Too many Aiel had expressed surprise at seeing him, had claimed they had seen him dead; he did not want details.  There was a long gash down the wall in front of him. He knew what made that sharp edge, that surface as slick as ice, smoother than any hand could have polished in a hundred years.<br />Idly &#8211; but with a shiver, too &#8211; he wondered whether being reborn in this fashion made him a new man. He did not think so. Immortality was gone. That was a gift of the Great Lord; he used that name in his head, whatever al&#8217;Thor demanded on his tongue. That was proof enough that he was himself. Immortality gone &#8211; he knew it must be imagination, yet sometimes he thought he could feel time dragging at him, pulling him toward a grave he had never thought to meet &#8211; and drawing the little of saidin he could was like drinking sewage. He was hardly sorry Lanfear was dead. Rahvin either, but <b>Lanfear</b> especially, for what she had done to him. He would laugh when each of the others <b>di</b>e<b>d</b>, too, and most for the last. It was <b>not</b> that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he woul<b>d</b> cling to that tuft of grass as l<b>o</b>ng as he could. The roots would g<b>i</b>ve way eventually, <b>t</b>he long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.<br />He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. &#8220;You? No<b>!</b>&#8221; The word still hung in the air when death took him.</i><br />TFoH pg. 960-961 (paperback)<br /><br /><b>Lanfear did not do it! </b><br /><br />Conspiracy theorists everywhere are now concluding that not stopping at Etzel, RJ saw into the future the most argumentative of all wotmaniacs&#8230;Columbo. Yes, even I believe our clever little creator placed this message specifically for Columbo &#8211; he should be honored, really. <br /><br />Further analysis has revealed that RJ is truly a man of great genius, as you can see below&#8230;<br /><br /><i><b>T</b>ucking his harp under his arm, Asmodean drifted away from Mat and Aviend<b>h</b>a. He <b>e</b>njoyed playing, but not for a pair who did not listen, much less appreciate. He was not sure what had happened that morning, and not sure he wanted to be sure. Too many Aiel had expressed surprise at seeing him, had <b>c</b>la<b>i</b>med they h<b>a</b>d seen him dead; he did not want details.  There was a long gash down the wall in front of him. He knew what made that sharp edge, that surface as slick as ice, smoother than any hand could have polished in a hundred years.<br />Idly &#8211; but with a shiver, too &#8211; he wondered whether being reborn in this fashion made him a new man. He did not think so. Immortality was gone. That was a gift of the Great Lord; he used that name in his head, whatever al&#8217;Thor demanded on his tongue. That was proof enough that he was himself. Immortality gone &#8211; he <b>k</b>new <b>i</b>t must be imagination, yet sometimes he thought he could fee<b>l</b> time dragging at him, pu<b>l</b>ling him toward a grave h<b>e</b> ha<b>d</b> never thought to meet &#8211; and drawing the little of saidin he could was like drin<b>k</b>ing s<b>e</b>wage. He was hardly sorry La<b>n</b>fear was dead. Rahvin either, but La<b>n</b>f<b>e</b>ar especially, for what she had done to him. He woul<b>d</b> laugh when each of the others died, too, and most for the last. It was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he would cling to that tuft of grass as long as he could. The roots would give way eventuall<b>y</b>, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.<br />He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. &#8220;You? No<b>!</b>&#8221; The word still hung in the air when death took him.</i><br />TFoH pg. 960-961 (paperback)<br /><br /><b>The CIA killed Kennedy! </b><br /><br />Wow! Who could have known that so much was written into this death scene. No wonder RJ so enjoys our floundering around and endless online debating. With the startling realization, I have concluded that even further research needs to be done. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if this simple passage answers such questions as &#8216;When will the Cubs win the World Series?&#8217;, &#8216;How can anyone be a fan of the Washington Redskins?&#8217;, and &#8216;What is the meaning of life, cause 42 just doesn&#8217;t cover it?&#8217;. If my liver ever recovers from this line of research, I&#8217;ll promptly publish it here for all of mankind&#8217;s benefit.<br /><br />Thank you, and remember that the truth is out there!<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-04 07:18:36
subject: Rand's sickness isn't about channeling.
body:
<p>&quot;He began weaving saidin...From the first flow he channeled, the taint seemed to pulse inside him, a slowly building vibration.  It must have been the evil in Shadar Logoth itself, a resonance of evil to evil.  Even in the void, he felt dizzy from those reverberations, as though the world swung beneath his feet in time to them; they made him want to vomit up everything he had ever eaten.&quot; - Lord of Chaos, ch.21, &quot;To Shadar Logoth&quot; pg.330 (hardcover, first edition)<br /><br />  Since The Path of Daggers, Rand has experienced a strange malady that has hindered his ability to channel.  I believe that the source of this illness is the inimical interaction of the unhealing wounds in his side he has received from Ba'alzamon at Falme in &quot;The Great Hunt&quot;, and Padan Fain near Cairhien in &quot;A Crown of Swords.&quot;  <br /><br />  The symptoms include nausea, blurred vision, and dizziness in varying degrees, mostly getting worse as the story progresses.  This was seen in the very beginning of Rand's PoV in &quot;The Path of Daggers,&quot; where he became ill upon seizing saidin.  However, the illness has progressed to the point where he seldom uses the Power if he doesn't have to.  Elayne notes that in &quot;Winter's Heart,&quot; and his reaction to the sickness is glaringly obvious even to the fairly unobservant characters of WoT.  <br /><br />  As the events immediately preceding Rand's illness include his wounding at Padan Fain's hands and the subsequent coma he was in, many readers have lept to the conclusion that it is a result of his wound from Fain's dagger.  The other prevalent idea is that it is a manifestation of the illness as a result of the taint on saidin.  Since the illness has continued unabated since the cleansing of the True Source, the taint can be ruled out - Jordan has stated that physical and mental degeneration from the taint will not recede, but it will not grow worse.  <br /><br />  The question is, why would the Shadar Logoth wound affect his ability to channel?  In fact, I believe it is the interaction of the wounds, and they might be having the same effect if he could not channel in the slightest.  In &quot;Crossroads of Twilight,&quot; Cadsuane observes Rand stumble without channeling.  She had observed his reactions and correctly associated them with his grasping saidin, as she could tell thanks to her ter'angreal ornaments.  In Winter's Heart, he had also begun experiencing the symptoms at times unrelated to his taking hold of the Power.  <br /><br />  The thing to remember is that the two kinds of evil power in the book, the Shadow and Shadar Logoth, are inimical to each other.  The evil of Shadar Logoth manifested as a result of hatred and suspicion directed towards the Shadow.  Mashadar and the taint of Shadar Logoth &quot;consume the Shadow as readily as those who walk in the Light,&quot; according to Vandene in &quot;The Great Hunt.&quot;  The taint of the Dark One on saidin was finally cleansed by forcing it into contact with Shadar Logoth - the two forces canceled each other out, and were both consumed, leaving saidin pure and Shadar Logoth destroyed.  There were, however, effects on the area around Shadar Logoth - the ground was destroyed down to half a mile deep - far deeper than any remaining sewers of foundations from the city would have gone.  The reaction of the two evils destroyed more than just each other - the man-made city and the physical area about it were utterly destroyed, and if the object containing the Shadow's taint was not indestructible saidin, it might have suffered the same fate.  <br /><br />  So what has this to do with Rand?  Damer Flinn did not Heal the wound given him by Fain, he sealed it away from his flesh, so it is currently trying to consume the evil of his wound from Ba'alzamon.  This was a hint of how Rand would eventually cleanse saidin, as it showed how the two evils interact when forced into proximity.  Though both would destroy Rand given the chance (Lanfear might have done something similar in The Great Hunt to save him from Ba'alzamon's wound: Moiraine said someone had to have done something or he would have died before she was able to help him), they are sealed away from spreading through his body, with only each other to attack.  As in the case of Shadar Logoth however, they cannot simply devour each other and leave the surrounding area untouched.  If that were the case, the buildings and land would simply have been cleansed of Shadar Logoth's evil, and become an ordinary set of ruins. The illness that makes Rand nauseated and dizzy is the side effects of the battle raging between the two hostile influences in his body.<br /><br />  So why are they manifest primarily when he channels?  In the earlier books of the series, it is stated that channelers are more sensitive to some things.  They can feel the evil of the Shadow, sensing Shadowspawn or Darkfriends touched by the Shadow, and Moiraine knew there was something wrong with Mat as soon as she walked into his room in the Queen's Blessing.  Lanfear could tell the Shadar Logoth dagger was tainted in &quot;The Great Hunt,&quot; Aginor and Balthamel found Mat &amp; co. at the Eye of the World by sensing the dagger and Rand could sense Fain's presence in &quot;Winter's Heart.&quot;  When a channeler holds the Power, their senses are enhanced.  The effect this has on their ability to feel either Shadar Logoth or the Shadow's touch has never been stated in the books, but it could be a reaction to suddenly feeling these effects of the wounds more clearly when he first grabs saidin.  He doesn't feel tehe pain because of the Void he creates when he first touches the Source.  It could also be the wounds themselves reacting negatively to the proximity of saidin.<br /><br />  In the passage at the beginning of this theory, Rand is feeling a reaction from the taint of saidin against the taint in Shadar Logoth.  In &quot;A Crown of Swords&quot; he enters Shadar Logoth in pursuit of Sammael, and he feels a reaction in his wounds.  &quot;...he felt the new wound (from Fain) in his side throbbing...echoing the evil that clung to...Shadar Logoth.  The old scar (from Ba'alzamon) clenched like a fist.&quot;  In both passages he is feeling a physical response to the reaction of the Dark One's evil and Shadar Logoth, in conjunction with using the Power.  When he makes a gateway to leave Shadar Logoth in &quot;The Lord of Chaos,&quot; the feeling is described again as worse than before.  In some way, he is being made ill by what he feels - through his channeling ability - of the reactions of the concentrations of evil in his body to each other.  The act of channeling itself is not directly related to his sickness - it is simply then that he is most aware of what is going on between his wounds.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-04 07:21:32
subject: How Mat will lose his eye
body:
<p>I've been visitor to this web site for a few years and read quite a few theories.  This is my first attempt at writing one myself.  One of the features I used to like was the random quotes that would appear on the right hand side of the page.  I used to copy them down in a note book when I was bored.  I was going through it the other night and i ran across a quote that concerned mat.  <br /><br />&quot;Fortune rides like the sun on high,<br /> with the fox that makes the ravens fly.<br /> Luck; his soul, the lightning his eye,<br /> He snatches the moons from out of the sky.&quot;<br /> <br />Now, it's obvious that this quote is describing Mat and certain events that will take place in his life.  The first line talks about him having good fortunes (pretty obvious).  The second line describes both his signent ring and his dealings with Nynaeve and Elayne in Ebou Dar.  The third line is split into 2 parts.  The first mentions his luck (dice in his head, odds while gambling, etc).  The second part of it is about how he will lose his eye (I will get back to it in a minute).  The last line of the quote talks about him kidnapping tuon.<br /><br />To get back to the point of this theory; It's obvious that Mat is going to lose an eye, but no one has figured out how...yet.  The quote links lightning and his eye together.  I have formed 2 theories as to what it could mean.<br /><br />1) He is going to lose it fighting sul'dam.  There will be a battle to get tuon back and the sul'dam will somehow injure his eye.<br /><br />2) He will find out that sul'dam can channel and will help to defend them.  he will give his eye to keep this possibly devistating info from the crystal throne.  <br /><br />Well this is my theory.  Feel free to tear it apart.<br /><br />}:l lf ROB lf }:l<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-10 17:31:21
subject: The Creator, The Dark One and the Scope of the Universe
body:
<p>When the Creator made existence he &quot;hard-coded&quot; rules into it, an example in our spacetime would be the speed of light or PI. <br /><br />one of these rules could very well be that he as the ONLY omnipotent force cannot act directly on the created universe - or perhaps that every strain of his existence is so alien to the universe he's created (think Einstein or Hawking's assertions that considering &quot;time&quot; or &quot;space&quot; before the Big Bang is irrelevant because all laws of the universe break down and nothing matters because we have no way to observe, no frame of reference and no relativity.) that by the very existence of the universe the creator is locked out of direct action.  <br /><br />maybe the Creator set the entire evolution of the Pattern (this is suggested merely by the idea of a Pattern and the Wheel of Time) in the creation itself - so that all events (much like Christian thought (not my thing)) eventually lead to the will of the Creator - no matter how evil they seem at the moment.  Cause and effect. Action and Reaction - the Creator knows everything that will happen because he engineered it to happen.  <br /><br />So he doesn't NEED to do anything other than watch the unfolding of his creation via the Pattern he's set in motion. <br /><br />The Dark One is not the equal of The Creator - he is merely the equal of the forces for good inherently built into creation by The Creator.  In other words - the Creator builds a glass box and is shining a light into the box.  The Dark One is the opposite force within the box.  This is just metaphor of course, not any kind of spatial theory on how the universe of WoT is structured.<br /><br />I believe that when characters refer to The Dark One &quot;remaking the Wheel in his image&quot; - it is merely a foreseen subversion of the Wheel (because there is evidence from Ishamael that this has already happened many times before) and that the Wheel always corrects itself and begins anew - a function that would have been built in by the Creator.<br /><br />In conclusion - The Creator is outside and above the known universe and though omnipotent is unable to change the universe beyond the path he's already set. He must depend on the Wheel correcting itself because it's nature requires it.<br /><br />The Dark One is part of the universe and though sealed away from it - is indeed finite and limited in his scope.  Therefore he can be directly defeated by Rand.<br /><br />I base a lot of these ideas on the fact that RJ studied physics. <br /><br />-Franklet</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Many nice ideas, but think about this. If the Creator is that isolated from his world, then how do you explain the end of tEotW when Rand hears the voice of the Creator? <br /><br />I'm not sayng you are wrong, I just feel that this was unaddressed.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-11 08:23:20
subject: Mordeth's try to take Rand in possession
body:
<p><b> I. Min&#8217;s ominous viewing </b><br /><br />In ACoS, ch.33, Min tells Rand another viewing:<br />&#8216;&#8220;I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....&quot; Her mouth tightened worriedly, and she went on in a<br />very small voice. &quot;I don't know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies, and one doesn't.&#8221;&#8217;<br /><br />People speculated what that means. Two theories are especially popular.<br /><br /><b> II. The other man is LTT </b><br /><br />The first theory says that the other man has to be LTT. <br /><br />When Rand hears this viewing he is happy and immediately states, contrary to Min&#8217;s concerns:&#8221;&#8217;I'm grinning because you've given me very good news,&#8217; he said [to Min], touching her cheek. The other man had to be Lews Therin. I'm not just insane and hearing voices, he thought, jubilant. One lived and one died, but he had known for a long time that he was going to die. At least he was not mad. Or not as far mad as he had feared.&#8221;<br /><br />It seems the Rand&#8217;s idea is that this could fit with the Finn&#8217;s prophecy of  &#8220;to live, you must die&#8221;.<br /><br />I doubt that Rand is right. <br /><br />The first (maybe a bit cynical) argument is that the main characters of course never conclude something right at once, otherwise it the suspense is gone.<br />RJ is just playing with us, presents us an easy answer subsequent to the viewing but in fact only wants to hide the true meaning of it.<br /><br />The second thought is that Min only sees the future in her viewings. <br />At the moment one could say Rand and LTT are already merged. <br />That would mean for the viewing to come true that Rand and LTT first have to become seperated in the flesh, then somehow merge again while one of them dies because of that, although in the first 10 books of the series they could exist together in one body without much problems. <br /><br />Furthermore, RJ said that LTT&#8217;s soul is the same soul Rand has now. <br />Apparently it is a special &#8220;Dragon soul&#8221; since Rand is as the Dragon Reborn the Creator&#8217;s champion in this Age (probably even the Creator calls Rand the &#8220;Chosen One&#8221; in EotW, ch.51, pg.758 ).<br /><br />Thus it speaks against the idea that LTT is the other man, because how can two people become seperated with just one soul?<br /><br />For these reasons I can&#8217;t agree that LTT is the other man in Min's viewing.<br /><br /><b> III. The other man is Moridin </b><br /><br />The second, in my view better theory is that the other man represents Moridin. <br /><br />In ACoS,ch.41, pg.733, Rand and Moridin (as the wanderer) hold one hand while Rand&#8217;s saidin balefire and Moridin&#8217;s True Power balefire touch.<br /><br />It seems that something very strange happened because of Rand&#8217;s and Moridin&#8217;s reactions:<br />&#8220;Head ringing like a struck gong, Rand convulsed, saidin and the Void shattering. Everything was doubled in his eyes, the balconies, the chunks of stone lying about the floor. There seemed to be a pair of the other man overlapping one another, each clutching his head between two hands.&#8221;<br /><br />Rand asks Moridin what happened but even he just snarls: &quot;I don't know what happened&quot;.<br /><br />After this event Rand starts to see a new face and hears a new voice besides LTT which could be Moridin (or another Dragon).<br /><br />It&#8217;s obvious that something weird happened in this scene, though no one can exactly explain what. <br />Nevertheless I believe it must not necessarily be the meaning of Min&#8217;s viewing.<br /><br />Rand and Moridin didn&#8217;t &#8220;merge&#8221; in a literal sense. <br />They are still seperated, at least physical.<br /><br />Also Min&#8217;s viewing indicates that immediately after the merging either Rand or the other man will die what didn&#8217;t happen. <br />Although Rand has a bit trouble after this event, the result doesn&#8217;t seem dangerous for his life.<br /><br />Finally there is no indication that Moridin has any similar problems like Rand, i.e. that he sees Rand's face and hears his thoughts (though, of course we don&#8217;t see him much after this event).<br /><br /><b> IV. Mordeth is the other man </b><br /><br />Since there are a some doubts concerning these two theories I want to present an alternative interpretation of the viewing.<br /><br />I suggest that Mordeth is the other man.<br /><br />Already in EotW we learn that Mordeth is a kind of evil spirit. <br /><br />When the ta&#8217;veren meet him in EotW, ch.19, in Shadar Logoth he shows that his body is not human but seems to be transcendental like a ghost. <br /><br />Mordeth casts no shadow as Rand notes when he watches him: &#8220;You don&#8217;t have a shadow&#8221; (EotW, ch.19, pg.284).<br /><br />Mordeth can change his body: &#8220;Like a balloon Mordeth swelled, distorted, head pressed against the ceiling, shoulders butting the walls, filling the end of the room, cutting off escape. Hollowcheeked, teeth bared in a rictus snarl, he reached out with hands big enough to engulf a man's head.&#8221; (EotW, ch.19, pg.284)<br /><br />Finally when he flees it is said: &#8220;As Mordeth dove through the air, he stretched out and thinned, like a tendril of smoke. As thin as a finger he struck a crack in the wall tiles and vanished into it. A last cry hung in the room as he vanished, fading slowly away after he was gone.&#8221; (EotW, ch.19, pg.285)<br /><br />Moiraine tells the boys Mordeth&#8217;s story which we all know. <br /><br />It ends with Mordeth being snared alone in SL for many centuries, the only thing Mashadar couldn&#8217;t consume.<br />But &#8220;if ever he convinces someone to accompany him to the walls, to the boundary of Mashadar's power, he will be able to consume the soul of that person. Mordeth will leave, wearing the body of the one he worse than killed, to wreak his evil on the world again.&quot; (EotW, ch.19, pg.290)<br /><br />Later Moiraine (and the reader) realizes that Mordeth merged with Fain, thus was able to escape SL and become free again.<br /><br />In TGH, ch.49, pg.675, Moiraine tells, after Rand&#8217;s question if Fain is a Darkfriend: <br />&#8220;More than that. Worse than that. Padan Fain was the Dark One's creature to the depths of his soul, but I believe that in Shadar Logoth he fell afoul of Mordeth, who was as vile in fighting the Shadow as ever the Shadow itself was. Mordeth tried to consume Fain's soul, to have a human body again, but found a soul that had been touched directly by the Dark One, and what resulted . . . . What resulted was neither Padan Fain nor Mordeth, but something far more evil, a blend of the two. Fain - let us call him that - is more dangerous than you can believe. You might not have survived such a meeting, and if you had, you might have been worse than<br />turned to the Shadow.&quot;<br /><br />Also the glossaries say under the term <i> Mordeth </i>:<br />&#8221;Councilor who turned the city of Aridhol to use Darkfriends' ways against the Darkfriends, thus bringing its destruction and earning .it a new name, Shadar Logoth (&quot;Where the Shadow Waits&quot; ). Only one thing survives in Shadar Logoth beside the hate that killed it, and that is Mordeth himself, bound in the ruins for two thousand years, waiting for someone to come whose soul he can consume and so take on new flesh.&#8221;<br /><br />All this is supported by Fain&#8217;s PoV in the series, too. <br /><br />Mordeth tried to consume Fain&#8217;s soul completely but the DO&#8217;s taint protected Fain for some time. <br />Of course later it seems that Mordeth finally overpowered the DO&#8217;s touch on Fain since Fain even starts to call himself Mordeth. <br /><br />Nevertheless Mordeth still has to live in Fain&#8217;s body, is even bound to it in my view.  <br />Since he is just an evil spirit, he needs a physical vessel to walk among humans (remember for example that Mordeth casts no shadow). <br />Therefore he has to take people in possession. <br /><br />We don&#8217;t know exactly how this works, but Mordeth can merge with a person under certain circumstances. <br /><br />Maybe you have to allow him to enter your body. <br />Or it can happen if you touch him. Also Moiraine&#8217;s first question when she hears that the boys met Mordeth is:&#8221;Did he touch you?&#8221; (EotW, ch.19, pg.288 ). <br />Maybe it is something else.<br /><br />Anyway, I believe that Mordeth could leave Fain&#8217;s body again if Fain dies. <br />Mordeth wouldn&#8217;t die with him, since he is too powerful and actually already only a ghost, i.e. dead. <br />If Fain dies Mordeth would be free again and had to look for a new vessel to possess after consuming the soul of his victim.<br /><br />Many people believe that the large Darkhound pack we see in CoT is hunting Fain. <br />Read e.g. shooganooga&#8217;s theory &#8220;What the Darkhounds Were After&#8221; or my theory &#8220;The core of the Wild Hunt&#8221; for further informations on that.<br /><br />If they really hunt Fain (and we know Slayer is hunting him, too), they will most likely kill him. <br />The Darkhounds &amp; Slayer are just too much for Fain in my opinion. <br />Of course, as shown above, Fain&#8217;s death will free Mordeth again.<br /><br />Mordeth knows of Rand&#8217;s powerful status among humans.  <br />Plus, it&#8217;s possible that he incorporated Fain&#8217;s hate and the ability to track Rand. <br />Therefore I believe Mordeth will try to consume Rand&#8217;s soul and use him as his next vessel and thus be able to corrupt even more people.<br /><br />This literally fits with Min&#8217;s viewing of Rand and another man merging, since this is exactly what Mordeth does with his victims. So far Min&#8217;s viewings had often a quite literal meaning, though they are abstract.<br /><br />Furthermore, I believe Mordeth will die because Rand&#8217;s soul is even more protected than Fain&#8217;s soul was.<br />As said above, Rand has the special soul of the Creator&#8217;s champion against the DO. <br />When Mordeth merges with Rand and tries to consume his soul, Mordeth will be killed because Rand&#8217;s soul is too powerful for him.<br /><br />Maybe even Rand&#8217;s soul will consume Mordeth. <br />So Rand could get something to support him in his fight against the DO in the end at Shayol Ghul. <br />The Cleansing showed how the SL evil and the DO&#8217;s evil can destroy each other.<br /><br />This way the Fain/Mordeth plot would indeed be important and could help Rand to win, but not as a blatant copy of the end of &quot;Lord of the Rings&quot; like the &#8220;Fain is Gollum&#8221; theories imagine.<br /><br /><b> V. Conclusion </b><br /><br />For these reasons I think it&#8217;s likely that Mordeth could be the other man Min saw in her viewing who merges with Rand but dies.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-11 08:24:48
subject: The Bubbles from Tear as foreshadowings
body:
<p>The 3 first Bubbles of Evil with the 3 ta'verens in Tear were what they were, and there is no evidence for it being something more. But Jordan likes foreshadowings and for this special case there is additional reason for it to be a presage. The Bubbles are manifestations of DO's nature inflicting and twisting the normal reality in certain place for certain period of time, some minor variant of unwillingly DO's presence. And this specific Bubbles are attracted from the 3 ta'verens, so to say - personalized to them. So we have in Tear BoE a minor aspect of the personal facing with DO of the 3 ta'verens. This Bubbles are the first minor and unwillingly encounter of something yet to happen to them in the Last Battle. In other words, they are an aspect of what is to be in Tarmon Gaidon, and there's no other case of the same phenomenon. All other their encounters with the Shadow are with Forsaken (or lesser minions), or are not personalized to them, like the Blight. So even if this BoE aren't foreshadowings, they may provide some information about the Last Battle. So there is a chance for this Bubbles to be foreshadowings, even if not proved.<br /><br />In Tear all our 3 heroes coped with their BoE. So if they are foreshadowings, they would show not only something to happen to Rand, Mat and Perrin at TGD, but also a way for them to win. So, if it is a foreshadowing, it will be a very important one. Of course the interpretation of it couldn't be very sure. Like prophecies, one couldn't know what foreshadowings mean before it occurs, they are not for calculing the future, but to recognize the event (or something about it), when it happens. But nevertheless let see, what this could provide:<br /><br />Rand's BoE: <br />It's the most unusual kind of BoE in the whole series. And all that doubles stuff makes to think about Rand's problems with his personalitities. It doesn'a ressemble the relations between Rand and LTT, but in the BoE there are also conflicts with doubles for who of them to be the real one, and it's very important, who of the doubles would become the only one real person last. Rand manages to win by stopping conventional fight, and swallowing his wrong doubles. And there is at least one prophecy about som Rand's fetches in the future (the dream about Logain vaultin over one of them). And there is an example about how bad is for a wrong double to win the battle for Rand's self: the alternative outcome of Lanfear&amp;Moiraine scene - that about Rand becoming as LTT Lanfear's faithful lover. The swallowing of doubles also ressembles self-sacrifice and could eventually say something about Rand's profecied must-die-for-to-live.<br /><br />Mat's BoE:<br />It happens, when Mat's gambling luck is in it's culmination. It is as if Mat's own luck turned against him (not the only case of such a twist, if we ask for his opinion, though). He had the best hand he ever could have, the bids were wow!, and suddenly... It would be a good twist, if such a twist occurs with his luck also at TGD. His trumps, the strongest cards, he could always bank on, turned now against him. Maybe it's important, whom the cards represent. The strongest of them, the &quot;ruler of swords&quot; is commonly the local ruler, in our case it's supposed to be Rand. In the cards Mat played with it wasn't him, they were older, but it's explicitly said, in the newest pckas it's Rand. The another cards attacking Mat, represent the Amerlyn Seat and the Queen of Andor. So, Rand, Egwene and Elayne turning against Mat? I don't believe that. At least with Rand they must be on the same side at the Last Battle for to fulfil the prophecies. But it could be something to make Mat think they turned against him. Maybe it will be connected with Mat's growing Seanchan engagements (throught Tuon); while Rand, Egwene and Elayne would be perfect heads of an anti-Seanchan coalition. Or it will have something to do with the growing number of doubles and stand-ins in the game, maybe he will face the wrong Dragon, wrong Amerlyn, wrong Queen (no one of Mat's cards pictures the actual rulers they represent, the cards only take their places)...<br /><br />Perrin's BoE:<br />Unlike Rand's and Mat's one, it's not an unique kind of BoE, it's very similar to the one in Salidar. But in Perrin's case it's not an accidental object, what is involved, but a very important for all the story and assotiated with plenty of symbolics one - Perrin's axe. It resembles also the later Egwene's dream about the axe chasing Perrin. Perrin managed to cope with the axe by catching the axe in his hands and making it to stick in the door. Faile attempted to help him with this, but actually she cumbered. He succeded by taking her away from him for saving her, and after them luring the axe  to move against himself, to miss him and to stop moving in the door (almost killing Faile). Maybe something Perrin raised to life will turn against him, something being actually his responsibility, but what he neglected, maybe something connected with Aram... Maybe Perrin is to leave Faile (even if for saving her), as he did by the victory at Emmond's field. Maybe he has to face forces he used before for his needs (axe could be a metaphor for forces used without willing), turned against him (and he's using lot of unthrustful people now) and he has to take them under control and channel their frenzy in safe direction. Maybe DO will manage to turn his abilities against him. Maybe his own rage will make the problems...<br /><br />And one last consideration: Rand's and Perrin's cases could make one think, the BoE at all are connected with the problems the involved persons have within their own minds. Rand has major problem with own personalities, Perrin has problems with his axe. Both of them IMO have to accept it, but they desperately kick against it. And, it could sound a little bit paradoxically, but even Mat, the wise and happy gambler, has problems with accepting his luck. Not the common games he's playing, there he is really wise. But he never accept the main game of chance he's involved in, the game that includes the dice in his head.<br />If so, it would have connection to the Last Battle too, because it's like DO to use inner problems of his opponents. And we know DO can infects people's minds, that was his first strike in AoL (the collapse of Sharom was IMO only a side effect of the process of making the Bore, not intentional act of DO).<br />And if it's so, it could be rule for all the BoE to be built over some inner problems of people involved. In Salidar BoE there are only inanimate things rebelling, because AS are too self-disciplined minds to allow the usual monsters, but they behave in the world as with inanimate things, and they will see in their problems with the world problems with inanimate things. And the usual monsters in the mist, could it be after the dark side of the soul of somebody in the region, the BoE occur?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-11 08:29:42
subject: Axe versus Hammer
body:
<p>As we know, one of Egwene's dreams is about the importance for Perrin to choose between the axe and the hammer: &quot;... what was important about him choosing between that axe he wore and a blacksmith's hammer.&quot; (tDR, chapter 48 )<br />Actually he's choosing from the beginning of the first book up to the last one and another Egwene's dream about the axe chasing him after he throwed it away, means, that he has more to choose in the next books. But which will be the right choice? For answering this question it must be clear, what the axe means, and what the hammer. And in the books there are plenty of different things in different aspects assotiated with the axe and with the hammer and with both. A closer research is needed for all the aspects.<br />As complete analysis as possible, involves also the question, is the exclusive &quot;or&quot; the only possible option. Choosing between axe or hammer could mean also: 1. Perrin having to choose both of them; 2. Not the results, but the process of choosing is, what is to be important. Both the options are possible and plausible, not more and not less then the exclusive or. The only advantage of the exclusive or is, it's more simple a variant. Here I will assume it as a precondition. But even if it's not true, it will be important to research, between what exactly is the choice, and the answer to the question &quot;Axe or Hammer?&quot; will be also necessary.<br /><br /><b>1. Peaceful tool - Bloody weapon</b>: It's the first assotiation to be seen and it's Perrin's own relation to the both. Perrin likes the hammer and hates the axe. He has reasons to hate the axe, it's in the game only by awful circumstances, etc. And another characters (especially Tinkers) see that in his axe and don't approve it. At first glance it's a point pro axe and contra hammer. But is really Perrin's hammer so peaceful? The Axe is created for war and only for war use, and the hammer is created to be peaceful, but how Perrin actually uses his hammer? He killed a (so hardly to be killed) Fade with it! In his wolf dreams he used the hammer as a weapon. And used as a weapon the hammer is even more dirty then the axe. As we know Perrin, in a occasion (and he must know he will have such occasions more and more) he will use as a weapon everything he could get, and if he has nothing, he will use maybe his teeth. Taking in regard this, the axe is the means for having his wrath under some control, and making it not so dirty. Having no axe with him, he will not become more peaceful. To make less damage he must control his anger, and the tool for it is the Axe. I.e. also something pro Axe.<br /><br /><b>2. Old life - New life</b>: Hammer symbolizes Perrin's old life and hopes, before Moiraine came in Emmond's Field. But after that the life of a provincial blacksmith is closed for him. The Axe symbolizes the adventurous life, his ta'veren-ness driving him into. Like everyone of the Two Rivers boys, Perrin doesn't like his new life and is looking for every chance to escape it. But the Wheel wants him to accept that life, i.e. to accept the Axe. Perrin is more responsible then the others from the beginning, but he allways wanting to set his limits to the scope of his responsibility, and the Wheel wants him responsible for everything it gives him as a target. Most of Perrins disagreements with his new ruler and warrior role are connected not with pacifism, but with his unwillingness to look foolish (as he understands it). And this is only a weekness of him. For facing his destiny Perrin must give up his blacksmith-nostalgia and accept his new role. Pro Axe and contra Hammer.<br /><br /><b>3. Choices already made</b>: 3.1. Perrin chose the axe and gave up the hammer in the very beginning of the series, when he leaved Emmond's field. He made the only right choice, without that the 3-ta'verens stuff was to fail. 3.2. After Elyas' advice he agreed to keep the axe. It looks like a very good advice. 3.3. After the scene with the blacksmith in Tear he became his hammer and a very good advice. He used the hammer when resquing Faile from the hedgehog-trap, and all was okay. 3.4. Coming to Two Rivers, he chose the Axe not the hammer (the most direct and explicit choice between them in the series) and the results were very good: his success in Two Rivers. 3.5. He kept his axe (not wearing the hammer) all the time he was Lord Perrin of Two Rivers up to CoT, and he had his successes by Dumai Wells, with Aliendre etc. 3.6. He throwed away the axe after the scene with the captured Aiel in CoT, and according to Egwene's dream the Axe will chase him soon; a prophecy somehow connected with him and Aram going in direction of an abyss; i.e. it seemes a choice with bad consequences. To summarize: most choices almost made are pro Axe and contra Hammer.<br /><br /><b>4. Rage symbol:</b> Axe as a weapon is connected with the berserker type of an ideal warrior (in difference to sword-type - a calm, self-disciplined, graceful master of fencing, fighting as an art in a developed civilisation, a blademaster-ideal; or in difference to spear-type, where the ideal warrior is also the ideal hunter). Perrin has lot from a berserker in him and all that is not seeming to be good, it's too cruel and wild a direction of developement. The Axe is a symbol of rage in the series also in another cases - the Ogier saying about the axe with a long handle (i.e. battle axe) is their symbol for anger and impatience. It's bad for axe. But it's not better for hammer. In Old Norse tradition the axe and the hammer as weapons are interchangeable. Hammer is Tor's weapon. Rage is the way of most effectively battle use of a hammer. And hammer is used by RJ as a symbol of wrath - in the heading of chapter 5 of CoT, where forging a hammer is forging Perrin's wrath (cf Rand's hardening in Far Madding is also &quot;forging&quot; his anger). The disadvantages (and eventually the advantages) for Axe and Hammer here are equal.<br /><br /><b>5. Conscience symbol</b>: Every time Perrin is hating his Axe, actually he's remembering the cruel side in him. Elyas said him to keep the axe so long he's hating it. That means, he needs the axe to remember about what really the necessary violence means. Throwing the axe away is wanting no more remembering, wanting no more conscience. And this is bad. Elyas' advice to throw the axe when he become to like it, means, to throw it when it's no more connected with his conscience. Perrin is the man of conscience in the series (Rand's conscience is too nevrotic, too infected by LTT's madness, not pure; Mat's conscience is yet to become a real factor; and conscience is not very essential to the female characters), it's very important for him. Perrin is throwing away his axe because of his hate to be cruel, but that's wrong way, actually he want's to escape from his responcibility, in his position he cannot remain not cruel if he hasn't the memory about his cruelty before his eyes. Pro Axe.<br /><br /><b>6. Hasty reactions - Methodical approach</b>: CoT chapter 5 gives us an excellent opposition of this type, but this is only the most clear expression of something characteristic for whole Perrin's life. The mentioned chapter tells us, how after the failed attempts for quick and impatient chasing Shaido, Perrin decides to take his anger under control and to begin patiently doing everything step by step. This decision is what is called a hammer been forged (in the title of the chapter). It's the way of doing things, Perrin allways liked and was good in it. And Perrin allways hated being hasty. And, according to the Ogier saying, the axe is a symbol for being hasty. Of course systematical approach is more efficient then hasty reaction. But the problem is, that it looks too similar to Rand's becoming harder and harder. That's quite efficient, but it's very bad for Rand. Why not the same point for Perrin? Actually in CoT chapter 5 he's becoming harder in the way like Rand became harder in Far Madding. And whatever of disadvantages hasty decisions have, they are quite emotional, they are very close connected with the ability to laugh and to cry. And another thing. When using his systematical approach, Perrin is restricting himself only to one immediate objective. &quot;Hammer&quot; is for him doing everything step by step whatever happens. It's good for blacksmith's work, but Perrin is a ruler now. A good ruler must react to everything immediately. The too strict methodical approach for a ruler is to be called fanatism. Because of his step-by-step method Perrin ignores the troubles of So Habor, the viewings about Rand, he's even ready to miss the last battle if he's not ready with his rescuing mission. IMO this systematical approach has more disadvantages then advantages. Contra Hammer.<br /><br /><b>7. Hope symbol</b>: The blacksmith from Tear gave Perrin the Hammer for remembering something about the future. It's one of the best scenes in the series. This hammer represents the hope for Perrin, there will be good time after his unhappy time for fighting against the Shadow. It's a hope for giving him what to struggle for. It's very important (not to forget, that the name of the DO's Champion is 'Betrayer of Hope'). Pro Hammer. But there are also some reservations to this. Hope is not exactly something to &quot;choose&quot;, it's only to be not given up. Choosing something instead of hope is betraying it, but keeping hope is not equal to be faithful to a definite symbol of it. Actually the best way of keeping hope, is to be independent from any particular symbol, for the strongest hope is alive by any circumstances. Perrin has to keep his hope, but isn't it a weekness restricting his hope to the hammer? And also the hammer is not only a symbol of hope for Perrin. He's using blacksmith's sayings most frequently to express his lack of good perspectives - only a bloody iron to forge, not a bit of silver...<br /><br /><b>8. Builder symbol</b>: Perrin is supposed by some to be the Builder image in the WoT mythology. There are some reasons for it. And the symbol of that role for him is his hammer. But it's debatable, is he really a builder. Rand is said to be not a builder but a destroyer, and in some way Perrin's ta'verenness is supporting to that of Rand. Maybe it's complementary Builder part to the destroyer one, but maybe it's another part of destroyer function (what does Perrin built? A nation? Rand has built much more, and he's not a builder!). And if he has to be a Builder, is really the hammer the proper symbol for it. The prophecy about the flourishing trees around him is the best thing to show his builder role, but what have trees to do with a hammer. It's not his systematical &quot;hammer&quot; style, what made the creative changes he influenced, but his quick improvisations and half-unwillingly presence, better symbolized by the Axe. And I don't think he will serve as Builder by being a blacksmith. It's also remarkable, that an axe is used as a instrument by building not less then a hammer. Pro Hammer, but with some reservations.<br /><br />9. There is a case in tDR ch.4, where a very competent person (IMO the most competent character in the series) gives Perrin a remarkable advice in favour of the hammer. He said, Perrin is to be builder and not a destroyer, and he must give up the axe and choose the hammer. And he was very insistent in wanting this. The problem is, thet this very competent person was Ishamael in one of Perrin's real dreams. Strong point pro Axe and contra Hammer. And after that I would ask any axe-haters: Which side you are fighting for? <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /><br /><br />10. I don't remember where, and I don't remember what exactly, but Verin said something to Perrin in favour of the hammer and against the axe.<br /><br /><b>11. Wolves connection</b>: The Axe is part of Perrin's wolf-name, i.e. it is a part of how the wolves see him (and that's once and forever). The hammer is something completely foreign to the wolves. Perrin even uses is in tDR to fly from wolves, to be away from them. In the rescuing Faile from T'A'R scene he's with Hopper and is holding a hammer, but Hopper seems indifferent to the hammer, and for Hopper Perrin remains Young Bull (who's horns ARE the Axe). The Wolves connection is very important, so: pro Axe.<br /><br /><b>12. Aiel connection:</b> Min's viewings are allaways about events crucial for the fate of the person, around whom is seen the viewing. Min has a viewing for Perrin about Gaul in cage, and IMO it's something yet to happen between Gaul and Perrin, or, throught Gaul, between Perrin and Aiels at all. And it's the axe-aspect, what all the Aiels recognize in Perrin, not the hammer aspect in him. Perrin could say them, he is a blacksmith, but they don't see a blacksmith in him. In case they have seen, they would also be very critical against him, because it's a SHAME for a blacksmith to fight. It's better for Perrin they never see a blacksmith in him. Contra Hammer.<br /><br /><b>13. Tinkers connection</b>: Perrin is the only main character with so special connection to Tinkers, he's the only one repeatedly to think, how good is the Way of Leaf. That's incompatible with the axe. But it's not enough for Perrin to give up the axe for to join the Path of the Leaf. The Path of Leaf is not in having no weapons, but in reacting non violently against troubles, and Perrin doesn't react so. Actually he's very far from patiently bearing bad deeds against another people, which is very important for the PotL. And it's not exactly a choice between axe and HAMMER here. Nevertheless contra Axe.<br /><br /><b>14. Aram connection</b>: As far Axe is for the path of war, it's connected with Aram's conversion. And Aram's presence means certain doom for Perrin. Axe is not Aram's weapon though. Aram is only converted by looking at Perrin's example, like Cha Faile and others like them are convereted by Aiel example. Aram represents only something seen in Perrin's axe from outside, not correctly understood though. Egwene's dreams are hint for more connections between axe and Aram. But IMO Aram is a bad reflection of Perrin's warrior's path. And something more dangerous: regarding Aram's sympathy to Massema, there's something dangerous in Perrin having no weapon like Massema hasn't. Without having a weapon Perrin will be forced to use only followers for dirty jobs, and Aram is ready to be used in such way. So Perrin would not see the consequences of his orders, and Aram would feel even more righteous. Perrin's axe is the last allowed to his lordship touch to doing things alone. So maybe pro Axe.<br /><br /><b>15. Ogier connection</b>: Axe is a common attribute of Ogiers. They themselves have (except the Seanchan ones) a reserved opinion about the axe (the unadvizable &quot;hasty&quot; stuff), but that's quite the right behaviour to the Axe, according to Elyas' advise. And whatever they think about, they are using their axes quite decided and vigorous. Ogier are the group of characters closer then anybody other to what is to be meant under &quot;good&quot; in WoT. For most the cases one could say, the Ogier's way to do something is the closest to the Light way, the best way. And almost everything used by Ogiers couldn't be bad. Including the Axe. There is an opinion, Perrin will join the Tinkers after the Last Battle; I don't think so, because Path of the Leaf is hardly compatible with one being ruler, and Perrin has to be a ruler, no means what he personally prefers. But Perrin could act like Ogiers and that will be good. And the flourishing trees around him from Min's viewing are another connection of him with Ogiers. Pro Axe.<br /><br /><b>16. Hawkwing connection</b>: Hammer is one of Hawkwing's nicknames. And there are lot of things hinting the connection with Hawkwing is important for Perrin. The episode with the stedding monument, many details from Hawkwing's biography, the Seanchan connection, their meeting at Falme etc. Perrin becoming more and more a ruler and an unifier, makes the paralell with Hawking even more important. But is Hawkwing's way good or not? Hawkwing was maybe the best ruler of the 3Age - that's pro Hammer. But Hawkwing's project failed after his death, and it failed in a disastrous way. The episode in the statue stedding looks like a warning - a project with great expeditions and sad results. And the Seanchan are more danger then a chance. That's contra Hammer. And IMO there's more contra Hammer then pro.<br /><br /><b>17. Faile connection</b>: She doesn't like Perrin's blacksmithery and she has done her best to make him never being a blacksmith again. And she's liking his axe aspect and has done her best to encourage him accepting it and helping him doing it right. The Wheel wanted Perrin becoming a ruler and no one has more contribution in acomplishing that then Faile. She was the means of the Wheel for making a lord from Perrin, and that was necessary for him. And it's very important for Perrin never to dissapoint Faile, he thinks it's better to die then to dissapoint her (sorry for giving no quote here). And if he doesn't choose the Axe and not the Hammer, he would surely disappoint her. Even Faile - Berelain controversy is here in the game. In Tear Berelain offered to him coming with her to Mayen as a blacksmith. At that time this would be a wrong choice for him, and for her too. I think, Berelain will have a positive influence on Perrin, but not in that way, Berelain is not to be the dominating side in their relations, in Min's viewing she wanted to leash him. On the contrary, Perrin must dominate over Berelain for a good outcome. In Tear she was still a bad choice for him, and after Cairhein it changed. But after Cairhein she's never more wanting from him being a blacksmith, and she accepted his warrior-and-ruler image, including the Axe. Pro Axe and contra Hammer.<br /><br /><b>18. Bubble of Evil in Tear</b>: here the Axe played the bad guy. That's nothing, except if this is one of the foreshadowings, RJ is liking to use. And the Tear bubbles could be presages, because they are manifestation of DO's essence in some connection with the 3 ta'verens, and the 3 ta'verens coped with their bubbles, i.e. with the DO's essence attracted to them personally. That makes the 3 bubbles from Tear possible presages of what everyone of them has to do at the Last Battle. And in Perrin's case it resembles Egwene's dream about the axe chasing Perrin (a dream after Tear). Perrin managed to cope with the axe. But how? Not by fighting it with the hammer (the hammer was there, but not in the game), but in catching the axe in his hands and taking it under control. Faile attempted to help him with this, but actually she cumbered. He succeded by taking her away from him for saving her, and after them sticking the axe in the door (almost killing Faile). Will the future axe chasing Perrin outcome in similar way? A RAFO question, but if so, he would manage to catch the axe and take a control over it. I.e. to accept it. After all pro Axe, but not a decisive argument.<br /><br /><b>19. Legends for the next Age</b>: The 3 ta'verens seem to form an ordered suit of 3 warriors - Rand with his sword, Mat with his spear, and Perrin must not be missing with the Axe. This would correspond to the 3 gods from Norse mythology, who are stated to having been influenced our 3 heroes. Perrin's correspondence - Tor, has a hammer, not a blacksmith's but a battle hammer though. And Tor's hammer is completely interchangeable with axe, and Tor's analogs in mythologies of neighbouring cultures as the baltic Perkunas or the slavonic Perun (don't this names sound familiar?), have axes as weapons... Not decisive, but pro Axe.<br /><br />I think that covers all the important aspects of the problem.<br /><br /><b>Conclusion</b>: There are lot of pros and contras for both Hammer and Axe, but most of the arguments are pro Axe and contra Hammer. That must be the final decision: Perrin have to choose the Axe. But the plenty of positive meanings of the Hammer, means IMO, hammer must also not be given up. But it's not &quot;choosing&quot; it what must be done about it. To &quot;choose&quot; means taking under immediate control, and there is no immediate usage of Hammer to be found in Perrin's case (but lot of immediate use of Axe). The hammer is not to be chosen, even not to be used, it's only not to be forgotten, it's to remain only as a symbol, while the axe will be the actual tool to hang on Perrin's belt.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-11 08:31:55
subject: If the Wheel should break
body:
<p>I'm working on a grand theory of how this series will end.  However, to write a great theory, one must also look at all possibilities.  So about five minutes ago I stumbled upon this alternative that would connect (although I HATE this term) &quot;Randland&quot; to our present day life.  Mind you......all of my great papers are written this way.<br /><br />The DO, as we all know, wants to break free of his/her prison and reshape the world in his/her own image.  Though the genders of the DO and the Creator is unknown, I will simply say &quot;his,&quot; &quot;him,&quot; or &quot;he&quot; from here on out, but keep in mind I do not intend to be gender-bias.  Although I do not know if the DO has state right out that he intinds to break the Wheel, many do fear this outcome, and it is certainly a main concern of the Aes Sedai.<br /><br />My bigest problem with DO breaking free of his prison and ruling the world is simple.  The Creator, though known, worshipped, and feared by all does not directly speak to humans.  Instead, he remains as an omnipitant being outside of the world, but forever influencing the world.  Whereas the DO is imprisoned with in the world, and theoretically, his &quot;flesh&quot; is a part of the earth within Shayol Ghul.  This bond that the DO has with the earth is what I believe gives him his ability to communicate with the living as well as the dead. i.e. reincarnating the forsaken.<br /><br />Where there is light, there must - somewhere - be darkness to counter it.  It's all part of that whole ying and yang thing working together to create a balance.  Somewhat like after the Age of Legends - an Age that bore great wonders and Aes Sedai could do things only dreamed of now - when the Bore opened the DO's prison, he touched the world, LTT came along with his buddies and patched the Bore up, but now all the men were going crazy from channeling.  Thus, all the goodness for the AoL was balanced by choas and fear for the next 3000 years or so.  In short, the &quot;good&quot; that pinnacled in the AoL was balanced by the &quot;fear and hate&quot; that has pinnacled in the 3rd age.  Theoretically, if each Age did repeat itself, the fourth Age would be defined by a purging of evil.<br /><br /><b>But what about the Wheel breaking?</b><br /><br />The DO was bound in Shayol Ghul by the Creator outside of Time.  This we know for fact.  But when talk of heavenly disputes outside of Time occur, I like to consult the Ancient Greeks.  The Greeks had a God for everything - almost - including a God for Time named Chronus.  The Greeks believed that the Gods orgaized themselves before Time was created, then came man, and then came woman to punish man for his sins.  All-the-while, the Gods sat in counsil atop Mt. Olympus.  Hmmmm....  Spiritual beings and mountains.  Nevermind.  I don't see any connection.  Do you?<br /><br />Aside from the community of Gods, the Greeks also gave us a perspective of Time as Linear.  This means that time follows a straight line and not a loop that just may resemble a wheel.  I have not fourn the reason that the Greeks had to lay this theory out and prove it to the world, but I will be so bold as to say that before them, it common knowledge that Time moved in a circular motion.<br /><br /><b>So boys and girls, what have the Ancient Greeks taught us today?</b><br /><br />The Ancient Greeks have proven to us that, for a time in our planet's history, all the two-legs thought that Time was circular.  Now it is believed, and for the most part common knowledge, that Time is linear.<br /><br />One of the many religions of today has another belief to add backing to this theory.  The Baptists believe that each and every child is born into or born with sin.  I am not a Baptists, so I don't know the actual wording, but I think the necessary bulk of the statement is there.  This belief, basically, states that there is an influence of evil in the world that all are susceptible to.  However, with the guidance of the church, nightly prayers, a pocket NIV New Testament, and one hour once a week in the House of the Lord, one can overcome evil and, as Galad would tell you, &quot;walk in the Light.&quot;  Essentially, I'm just trying to say that the common belief of today is that both good and evil have strong infuences on the world.<br /><br /><b>So.........(drumroll)........how does all of this tie into the Wheel of Time?</b><br /><br />A great number of readers agree that there must be something special about this Age that stands out from every other Age and every turning of the Wheel.<br /><br />The greatest thing that could possibly stand out about this Age and make it different from any other Age would be the DO breaking free of his prison.<br /><br />More importantly, I truely believe that Robert Jordan's ultimate goal is to tell this grand story, and when prophecy is fulfilled and the final cover closed tight, each reader will be thouroughly convinced that these events did happen in THIS world, we are direct decendents of THESE characters, that there WAS a Time when Aes Sedai influenced great rulers, and all remnants of the great cities have been swallowed by the earth.<br /><br /><b>Quite possibly, the series could end so.....</b><br /><br />The DO breaks free of his prison.  On his way out he loses his bond with the earth and his servants, though they are still more that willing to serve and fight for the shadow.  As feared, the DO breaks the Wheel of Time (but does not shatter it) in a place that is both past and future. But the Creator manages to save the Pattern and all of the Age Lace with the exception of the one break that lays Time out in a straight line.  Unable to re-imprison the DO in the earth, the Creator and the DO split to opposite sides and continue to force their own influence onto the world.  Now Time travels along a straight line and where the Pattern ends, the threads will simply lay out a new Lace and continue to do so untill time itself comes to an end.  Now, each child is born into a world of sin, but is more than capeable of walking in the light.  Of course, none of us will know until the end has come and gone.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-11 08:38:21
subject: Laughter and Tears Theory #1969
body:
<p>I thought that is was quite obvious how Rand would re-learn laughter and tears, however I have yet to see a formal theory that describes it so I'm going to throw my own theory on the heap.  It's a little long, but mainly quotes so please bear with me.<br /><br />So we'll begin with Cadsuane's quote in <i>New Alliances</i> from The Path of Daggers:<br /><br /><i>&quot;The boy confuses them,&quot; she said, &quot;He needs to be strong, and makes himself harder.  Too hard, already and he will not stop until he is stopped.  He has forgotten how to laugh except in bitterness; there are no tears left in him.  Unless he finds laughter and tears again, the world faces disaster.</i><br /><br /><br />From this discussion we learn that both Cadsuane and Sorilea understand that the problem with Rand is that he has become too hard a person and that he is striving so hard for the goal of defeating the Dark One that he has lost track of the cost along the way.<br /><br />The problem is that they do not know how to bring this out of Rand.  Rand realized early on that he would have to much that he did not want to do and that he would have to harden himself to make the necessary decisions required to defeat the Dark One.  There is however one place within him that he kept pure Rand of the Two Rivers.<br /><br />From <i>To Caemlyn</i> in The Fires of Heaven:<br /><br /><i>I will be hard!  He would let the Maidens  dance the spears where they wished.  He would.  And he knew he would search out the name of every one who died, that every name would be another knife-cut on his soul.  I will be hard.  The Light help me, I will.  The Light help me.</i><br /><br /><br />As you can see Rand was intentionally hardening himself after blaming himself for Moiraine's death because he could not stand to see women die.  And so he created the list.  Rand hardens himself with this list, and as the list grows longer he grows harder.  The list is where he remembers tears and where the true Rand is to be found.<br /><br />From <i>The Butcher's Yard</i> in A Crown of Swords:<br /><br /><i>Rand's face was drawn and twisted, the face of a man who wanted to scream, or maybe weep, and was fighting it down with every scrap of his fiber. ...&quot;One hundred and fifty-one Maidens died today.  For me.  I promised them you see. ...I have to keep my promises, you see.  Have to, no matter how it hurts.  But I have to keep my promise to myself, too.  No matter how it hurts.&quot;</i><br /><br />And also, from <i>Connecting Lines</i> in The Lord of Chaos:<br /><br /><i> Lifting the veil, he memorized Desora's face.  She looked as if she were sleeping now.  Desora, of the Musara sept of the Reyn Aiel.  So many names.  Liah, of the Cosaida Chareen, ...So many.  Sometimes he ran down that list name by name. ...He hurt for the men who died for him, but with them he could remember and old saying.  &quot;Let the dead rest, and care for the living.&quot;  Not easily, but he could make himself do it.  He could not even make himself summon the words when it was a woman who had died.</i><br /><br /><br />It is my postulation that for Rand to &quot;learn laughter and tears&quot; again he will have to break that list.  The only way for him to do this is to save someone who was on the list, an impossibility since the list is of women who's death he caused.  However if you note in the above quote the name that heads the list is Liah.<br /><br />Liah was Rand's first opportunity to break the list.  He found her alive in Shadar Logoth where he believed her to be dead.  However as he prepared to kill Sammael with balefire:<br /><br /><i>A scream tore the darkness, a woman shrieking in agony beyond knowing. ...a single thin tendril of Mashadar touching her leg. ...&quot;Liah,&quot; he whispered.  And balefire leaped from his hand.</i><br /><br /><br />Liah's soul was being devoured by the Mashadar, and so he exposed himself to attack from Sammael in order to kill her in a manner that would prevent the agony of her death.  Either way her thread was removed from the pattern, his was an act of mercy.  However this only served to harden him even further.<br /><br /><i>Skimming was slower than traveling; it took him at least half an hour to reach Illian, and the whole way, he burned Liah's name into his mind again and again, flailing himself with it.  He wished he could cry.  He thought he had forgotten how.</i><br /><br /><br />There is only one other person on the list who can be brought back,<br /><br />from <i>Into the Winds</i> from a Crown of Swords:<br /><br /><i>What good to tell him he would almost certainly fail without a woman who was dead and gone?</i><br /><br />And later in the <b>same</b> chapter:<br /><br /><i>Min gasped... For a moment she was sure it was Moiraine.  But...</i><br /><br /><br />I don't believe that Robert Jordan makes it any more clear than that!  Moiraine is not dead and we know of Egwene's dream from The Fires of Heaven:<br /><br /><i>...Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead...</i><br /><br /><br />And the final piece of the puzzle:<br /><br />From <i>The Hummingbird's Secret</i> in Winter's Heart:<br /><br /><i>Moiraine had died because he was not hard enough to do what had to be done.  Her name always headed the list engraved on his brain, the women who had died because of him.  Moiraine Damodred.  Every name on that list brought anguish that made him forget the pains of his body, forget the stone walls just beyond his fingertips.</i><br /><br /><br />Moiraine is the cornerstone of his list, and his list is his hardness.  It was only after her death that he truly started becoming hard.  As noted by Cadsuane his victory at <i>Tarmon Gai'don</i> depends on him relearning laughter and tears.  That will be Moiraine's final lesson for him after she is freed.  After Rand finds Moiraine alive he will be able to release the guilt that infuses him and he will have relearned &quot;laughter and tears&quot; and will be ready for the final battle.<br /><br />Any feedback is appreciated.<br /><br />Geer<br /><br /><img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/read.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-29 12:41:57
subject: The use of Aes Sedai in the Black Tower
body:
<p>First, lets state some facts:<br /><br />1. Taim is evil<br />2. Logain is not<br />3. Logain will overthrow Taim regime<br />4. Taim has several bad Asha'man who will fight for him<br />5. Logain has captured a number of female aes sedai<br /><br />OK, now let's get on with the theory.. Logain will need some kind of really good weapon to take care of Taim, as Taim and all his Asha'man possess a lot of strength..<br /><br />At the same time, Logain and his group of soldiers and dedicated have captured female Aes Sedai, 51 female Aes Sedai, and never told them not to harm the Black Tower.<br /><br /><i>&quot;You will do nothing to harm the Black Tower. She could not understand that command had not been given just as a precaution&quot;<br /><br />CoT - Glimmers</i><br /><br />Why has the order not been given? And what will be powerful enough to charge Taim fortress? A circle of men and women possibly? This also explains why no female Aes Sedai were bounded to one of Taim faction<br /><br />But then, if Logain's going to take control of the tower, how come he has not done that yet? Well, I think he thinks some things must be done beforehand. The most important was to speak to Rand,  telling him the situation and getting his permission. It would do no good if he defeated Taim and Rand then turned against him. This will likely yake place after the treaty with the Seanchan is secured.<br /><br />If all this is obvious I'm sorry I've wasted your time, the same if this is wrong.. have a nice day<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-29 12:44:55
subject: When Did Taim Join the Shadow?
body:
<p>First off I believe that Taim is a Darkfreind. Yet I don&#8217;t think he was a DF when he started to work for Rand.<br /><br />There have been times when I asked my self &quot;why did Taim do such a good job with the BT?&quot; Lets assume that at the moment all the Ashaman are more loyal Taim than Rand. When the Last Battle starts would an Ashaman who walks in the Light simply join the Shadow and march with Trollocs just to follow Taim? I don&#8217;t think most would. <br /><br />Without Taim Rand would have had no Ashaman, and the Shadow would have had Dreadlords. With Taim Rand has Ashaman and the Shadow also has its Dreadlords trained in the BT.  So even if a quarter of the men in the BT are Darkfreinds Rand has still gained the better end of the bargain. And the simple fact is that there were/are too many recruiting parties (as many as 50) gathering too many men from all over the &quot;Randland&quot; for Taim to fill the BT or the Legion of the Dragon with Darkfreinds. <br /><br />For that matter why would Taim insist on using Traveling to recruit men for the BT? If the shadow wanted the BT filled with DF then all it needed was an order for DFs to go to Ceamlyn, or Taim could have done it secretly. Looking at the pace that normal people came for the amnesty the majority of Ashaman might have ended up being DFs that way. <br /><br />So why did Taim do such a good job? For that matter why would Taim gather all those men for the Legion of the Dragon? What were his motives? Did he think to use them for himself? I don&#8217;t think that was the case. Those men were given to Bashere and their command is tied to him or Rand. <br /><br />What I believe is that Taim had not joined the shadow when he started working for Rand. And he still hadn't joined the Shadow when he got permission to use Traveling to gather men. It was sometime between then and Dumani's Wells that he change sides. But since he had already started using Flinn, Grady and others in gathering men for the BT it was too late to change or stop it. Rand might have grown too suspicious if the flow of men had suddenly stopped, or one of the men might have talked to Rand. <br /><br />So the best Taim could do was to keep his normal course; but also make sure that DFs also went out to recruit, and to use the DO protection from madness as a tool to bring more men to the shadow.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-29 12:48:11
subject: The identity of the new Seanchan ally - the candidates
body:
<p>In chapter 28 of COT (a cluster of rosebuds) Mat hears rumours of a new seanchan ally who is powerful and will give The High Lady Suroth access to many lands. Given the location of the Seanchan armies it is likely that the ally is currently in Altara, Ghealdan or Amadicia. This means it is likely to be one of the following, Shaido, Masema, Perrin, Rand or the Whitecloaks.<br /><br />Given the number of wise ones who can channel and the lack of evidence from the Shaido chapters in WH and COT the Shaido can automatically be eliminated however the remaining 4 need to be looked at in more detail plus what it could mean if the rumour is distorted.<br /><br /><b>Masema</b><br /><br />We know from WH and COT that Masema has been meeting with someone from the Seanchan and had a letter from Suroth telling the seanchan to give him help if required. Timeline wise there are no problems with the ally beeing Masema as the rumours would have time to reach Mat. Masema would also give the Seanchan access to several lands (Parts of Ghealdan, Altara, Amadicia that the Seanchan havent been able to reach).<br /><br />The problem with it beeing Masema is the note says any aid must be kept secret (spoken of to none but her) if this applies to all their dealings it reduces the chances of Masema beeing the ally. It is likely that the letter is to give Masema protection from the Seanchan and that Masema is a darkfriend who is plotting with the Seanchan possibly under a forsakens orders.<br /><br />He is a stong candidate though and is my second choice<br /><br /><b>Perrin</b><br /><br />Perrin is unlikely to be the ally as he is only a minor power and at the end of COT he had yet to make contact with the Seanchan. This makes it unlikely that rumours could have reached Mat. He is the least likely person from the probable candidates by some distance.<br /><br /><b>Rand</b><br /><br />Rand is definetely a power and could give the Seanchan access to many lands. The problems with Rand are that for rumours of his embasy (Bashere, Loial and Logain) to reach Mat it is leaving a very short period of time for the rumour to travel assuming the embassy is made public and is not private.<br /><br />It is also questionable if the rumours would speak of a power or would be of the dragon reborn. Given that Rand has defeated the Seanchan and the importance of him to their prophecies it is likely the Rumour if accurate would be of a truce/alliance with the dragon reborn rather than with a power. The rumour is that an alliance has been concluded when the negotiations are currently ongoing. Rumours do have a tendency to get distorted<br /><br />Given the problems with Timeline and the nature of the rumour he is my third choice.<br /><br /><b>Whitecloaks</b><br /><br />The whitecloaks are my personal preference for the new Seanchan Ally. They are reasonably powerful and would give Suroth access to new lands as they are accepted in all nations if they dont cause any trouble and could be used to tell people about the Seanchan.<br /><br />In addition in the prologue the Whitecloak council of the announted are travelling to meet somebody which if it was the Seanchan would fit the timeline well and give plenty of time for rumours to spread. <br /><br />When we look at the conversation between Asunawa and Valda we also get some hints that they may be meeting the Seanchan.<br /><br />Firstly the seanchan dominate their conversation<br /><br />Secondly Valda thinks that Asunawa is beeing stubborn insisting that all witches must be destroyed when he comments about the tame witches and wonders whether Asunawa will stay stubborn even as they are about to leave with the council of the annointed, as Asunawa was beeing stubborn about destroying all witches (which includes the seanchan) it is likely that it was the seanchan they are going to meet.<br /><br />Thirdly the meeting could bring about him seeing the White Tower fall and Valda thinks it is a certainty. Given that the whitecloaks are currently in no position to do this and we know the Seanchan are planning an attack on Tar Valon this fits with the known facts.<br /><br />Fourthly Valda is himself reluctant about what he has done and is doing what has to be done. Given that he refers to the light cursed Seanchan valda would be reluctant about dealing with them but would have no choice but to deal with them given the situation the whitecloaks are in if he wants the whitecloaks to survive.<br /><br />Finally the only other powers in the region he could be meeting are the Shaido or Masema. There are no rumours of Whitecloaks in the Faile chapters plus it is hard to see how they could cause the fall of the White Tower in Malden. As for Masema even though their views on Aes Sedai are similar it is hard to see how he could cause the white tower to fall. <br /><br /><b>Distorted Rumour</b><br /><br />It is also possible the rumour is distorted and instead of referring to a new power for the damane specifically gateways. These would give the Seachan access to new lands. For this to be the case they would have to had captured an Aes Sedai who knew how to make gateways or for Suroth to have been given the knowledge by a forsaken.<br /><br />In conclusion I believe that the new Seanchan ally is the whitecloaks and this will be revealed at somepoint in book 11. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-29 12:50:32
subject: Tuon and the Banner General
body:
<p>I think that the Banner General Karede, the one who took most of the Deathwatch after her, is really her father.  By the way that Domon and his woman act to one another, can't remember her name right now, a memeber of the blood will sleep with one of their da'covale.  The repeated requests by the general to be in Tuon's own guard is a good indication of that. There is also the doll that she gave him and he had kept for several years at her request.  I know that this is a weak theory, but no one else has tried it as far as I know.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-02-29 15:36:05
subject: Masema and Muhammad
body:
<p>I'm just starting to read about Islam in one of my classes, and I've noticed a number of similarities between Masema and the Muhammad. I don't have lots of detailed information yet, and I don't want to offend anyone's religious beliefs here, but here goes. I'll try to keep this brief.<br /><br />First, let's trace Muhammad's life. Until age 40 or so, he was a pretty normal guy, a merchant with a wife and four daughters; then in the desert he had his Revelation, began to preach in the city of Mecca, and became known as ar-rasuul (Prophet/Messenger). He gained a few followers and the political authorities started to get nervous. A town to the north, Yathrib (which was later called Madina) was having troubles with riots and things like that and invited Muhammad to come and set things right, which he did. There, he became powerful politically as well as religiously, converting many of the city's residents, and in two years he was the acknowledged leader of Madina. At this point, he started organizing raids against Meccan caravans for the sake of money, and just to cause them trouble. Mecca sent an army, which Muhammad and his followers crushed, then attempted to take Madina. That didn't work out too well, either. Eventually, Muhammad brought his own army to Mecca and the Meccans, realizing they couldn't stand up to him, fell back on negotiation. Muhammad entered the city peaceably and set up base there. Over time, he had won most of the city to his side and once he was solidly in charge, he was able to communicate with the rest of Arabia, and perform political acts in addition to converting people.<br /><br />Now for Masema. I don't know if we are told how old he is (maybe 40-ish, maybe older). He undergoes his conversion quite suddenly, after seeing Rand and Ishamael go at it in the sky over Falme. From this point on, he is a complete fanatic for the Dragon Reborn and his cause (although his actions involving the Seanchean and Whitecloaks later on look iffy). He gains followers quickly and arouses the interest of the Ghealdanin leaders. They send several armies, all of which he defeats easily, and eventually Masema is in control of most of Ghealdan. Now he is in position to demand the money and riches of various nobles and merchants and they have no choice but to concede to his wishes (remember, there were three rulers before Alliandre, all in about half a year). Masema also converts masses of people to his side, though he uses threats and compulsion (i.e. burning inns) to do it. Then, after Perrin has managed to convince him to go to Rand, he shows up in Perrin's camp with a couple hundred men! Since Masema's dealings tend to grow rather murky from here on out, I will stop my speculating while I'm still ahead (I hope ).<br /><br />If we look at Masema and Muhammad together, we see two men who were not originally special in any way; they both experience some sort of revelation or conversion; they begin preaching and gain their first followers; both are known as Prophet; they come to power in a city (or cities) and start to have a say in the political affairs of the region; they defeat the armies sent against them, and then go on the offensive against the current rulers; Masema comes to Perrin's camp with an army, instead of alone, just as Muhammad comes to Mecca, supposedly on a religious pilgrimage with an army; both Masema and Muhammad finally obtain almost complete power over the area in question, along with masses of devoted followers (Masema's seem more devoted to him than to Rand). Muhammad died in 632 in Madina and was buried there, but of course, we don't know yet how Masema meets his end.<br /><br />So that's my theory (my first one, too, by the way), essentially that there is some sort of a correlation between the Prophet of the Lord Dragon the Prophet of Islam. I hope I didn't anger anyone, and I welcome replies and supplements to my scanty knowledge of Muhammad.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-09 09:47:54
subject: The Longest Theory
body:
<p><b>The Longest Theory</b><br /><br />RJ's standard comment on the FAQ is that it's &quot;about one-third correct, one-third close but not quite, and one-third dead wrong&quot; [e.g. post-ACOS signing in Charleston, South Carolina, 21 June 1996, report by Brian Ritchie]. ~ Excerpt from The Wheel of Time FAQ.<br /><br /> The way I see it, the only way the FAQ could be so wrong is simply by misinterpreting what we have read. So, I will attempt a different interpretation. Just so you&#8217;ll know, this series of theories is extremely long, so make sure you have plenty of time to read them all, in order preferably. And, in the famous words of Nynaeve:<br /><br />&#8220;I will NOT apologize!&#8221;<br /><br /> <br /><b>Theory I: The Horn, the Dagger, and Fain</b><br /><br /> This theory deals with the motive behind the theft of the Horn of Valere and the freeing of Padan Fain. I'll begin in early stages of The Great Hunt, with a brief reminder of the raid on Fal Dara Keep. <br /><br /> While the Horn of Valere is being stolen upstairs, Egwene and Mat are rendered unconscious in the dungeon, and his dagger comes up missing. Neither one of them appears to remember what happened. (Neither one ever has a POV about it, or tells anyone). Fain is freed, and leaves a message for Rand, saying they will meet again on Toman Head. Plus, the Dark Prophecy is written on the walls of the guardroom. <br /><br />  Mat is then taken to the Amyrlin's quarters and Healed. After they are done, Siuan, Moiraine and Verin have a conversation about recovering the dagger. Siuan says this:<br /><br /> &quot;I think we must find this Padan Fain, too. Why is this Darkfriend important enough for them to risk what they did to rescue him? Much easier for them just to steal the Horn. Still risky as a winter gale in the Sea of Storms, coming into the very keep like that, but they compounded their risk to free this Darkfriend. If the Lurks think he is that important&quot; - she paused, and Moiraine knew she was wondering if it truly was still only the Myrddraal giving commands - &quot;then so must we.&quot;<br /><br /> The reason I bring up this quote is because it&#8217;s the basis for this theory. The motive for stealing the Horn is clear; to rob the Light of a powerful artifact, and perhaps use it for their own ends. But what possible motive could there be for freeing Fain? Sure, he&#8217;s a long-time Dark Friend, and had been given a special ability to track down Rand, Mat and Perrin. But, that special ability is no longer needed since the boys have been found, and the Shadow knows that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. In fact, since he managed to allow himself to be captured, and revealed so much to Moiraine when she interrogated him, he would probably be considered a traitor and a liability. It seems more likely that the Shadow would let him rot in prison or kill him to prevent him from revealing any more than he already has.<br /><br /> Instead of leaving him to rot or killing him though, the Shadow&#8217;s forces go out of their way to free him, compounding their risk, as Siuan said. And look at the results. He kills the Myrddraal, takes the Horn and heads for Falme. It appears they made a huge mistake by freeing him. <br /><br /> Appearances can be deceiving, however. For one thing, we assume, that the theft of the Horn and the freeing of Fain are part of the same plot. There is a very good reason to doubt this scenario: <br /><br /> When the Shadow&#8217;s minions leave Fal Dara, the Myrddraal in charge of the Horn, obviously had orders to head north toward Shayol Ghul. Fain, on the other hand, keeps turning them to the southwest. (This is why the trail zig&#8211;zagged ). Here is Fain&#8217;s POV:<br /><br /> &#8220;It had been a struggle at first, waking each morning to find the Myrddraal back in command, raging and demanding they go north, to the Blight, to Shayol Ghul. But bit by bit those mornings of weakness grew shorter, until&#8230;He remembered the feel of the hammer in his hand, driving the spikes in, and he smiled.&#8221; TGH, chap. 11.<br /><br /> Remember the message Fain left on the wall of the dungeon? It said he would meet Rand on Toman Head, and this is obviously where he intended on going from the time he is freed. He also expects Rand to follow him there.<br /><br /> From all appearances, there were conflicting orders. Someone sent the Myrddraal to steal the Horn and take it north, while someone else helped Fain escape, and pointed him towards Falme. Fain&#8217;s POV again:<br /><br /> &#8220;Come to me, al&#8217;Thor. The dance is not even begun yet. We&#8217;ll dance on Toman Head, and I&#8217;ll be free of you. I&#8217;ll see you dead at last.&#8221; TGH, chap. 11.<br /><br /> Who issued the orders to take the Horn north? Ishamael, is the most likely candidate, although, the evidence is not conclusive. In chap.15 of TGH, he comes to torment Rand in his dreams:<br /><br /> &quot;The Aes Sedai called Moiraine told you who you are, did she not? Did she lie? Or is she one of mine? The White Tower means to use you like a hound on a leash. Do I lie? Do I lie when I say you seek the Horn of Valere?&quot; <br /><br /> All of this knowledge that Ishamael has, probably came by eavesdropping on the meeting Rand had with the Amyrlin Seat in Fal Dara. He knows Moiraine told Rand he's the Dragon Reborn, that the Horn has been taken, and that Rand is part of the hunt for it. We also find out later, that Ishamael labeled Fain a traitor and sent Slayer to kill him, presumably for stealing the Horn and giving it to Turak. (All good reasons to believe that Ishy was behind the plot to steal the Horn, IMO.)<br /><br /> The questions that you must ask are; who would free Fain, and why? Like Siuan, I find it suspicious to go after the Horn and Fain both, especially when it is apparent that they had two different destinations.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-09 09:50:50
subject: The Longest Theory- Part 2
body:
<p><b> Theory II: What Selene Was Doing</b><br /><br /> What I'd like to do in this theory, is examine 'Selene's' actions while she's with Rand. Repeatedly, she urges him to seek fame, glory, and to take the Horn of Valere for himself. Time after time, Rand denies wanting anything to do with any of that. What I believe most people overlook, are the times we see her touching him and looking into his eyes, and Rand's subsequent reactions. This first example is right after Rand has saved her from the grolm. She kneels before him, and he takes her hand, pulling her to her feet:<br /><br /> &quot;It was my honor.&quot; That sounded vaguely Shienaran and formal. He hoped it would do, his mind was as blank of anything else to say as if he were still in the void.<br /> Suddenly he became conscious of her eyes on him. Her expression had not changed, but her dark eyes made him feel as if he were naked. Unbidden, the thought came of Selene with no clothes. His face went red again. &quot;Aaah! Ah, where are you from, Selene? We have not seen another human being since we came here. Is your town nearby?&quot; She looked at him thoughtfully, and he stepped back. Her look made him too aware of how close to her she was.&quot;<br /> <br /> She goes on to tell Rand she is from Cairhien, and he promises to help her get home. Then he helps her up on her horse:<br /><br /> &quot;Rand offered his hand to help her mount; Hurin scrambled down to hold her stirrup. &quot;Whatever that thing was I killed - a grolm? - there might be more of them around.&quot; Her hand was firm - there was surprising strength in her grip - and her skin was.... Silk? Something softer, smoother. Rand shivered.&quot;<br /><br /> Later, we see the scene where Selene is applying the salve to his branded palm:<br /><br /> &quot;The ointment felt cold at first, then seemed to melt away warmly into his flesh. And it worked as well as Nynaeve's ointments sometimes did. He stared in amazement as the redness faded and the swelling went down under her stroking fingers.<br /> &quot;Some men,&quot; she said, not raising her eyes from his hand, &quot;choose to seek greatness, while others are forced to it. It is always better to choose than be forced. A man who's forced is never completely his own master. He must dance on the strings of those who forced him.&quot;<br /> Rand pulled his hand free. The brand looked a week old or more, all but healed. &quot;What do you mean?&quot; he demanded.<br /> She smiled at him, and he felt ashamed of his outburst.&quot;<br /> <br /> After that not - so - subtle hint by 'Selene' of being compelled, Rand asks her if she's Aes Sedai, which she denies. Here is what happens next:<br /><br /> &quot;She smiled and laid her hand on his arm to show she was not angry - her touch made him swallow - but he was relieved when she let the mare drop back beside Loial. Hurin bobbed his head at her like an old retainer.<br /> Rand was relieved, but he missed her presence, too. She was only two spans away - he twisted in his saddle to stare at her, riding by Loial's side; the Ogier was bent half double in his saddle so he could talk with her - but that was not the same as being right there beside him, close enough for him to smell her heady scent, close enough to touch. He settled back angrily. It was not that he wanted to touch her, exactly - he reminded himself that he loved Egwene; he felt guilty at the need for reminding - but she was beautiful, and she thought he was a lord, and she said he could be a great man. He argued sourly with himself inside his head. Moiraine says you can be great, too; the Dragon Reborn. Selene is not Aes Sedai. That's right; she's a Cairhienin noblewoman, and you're a shepherd. She doesn't know that. How long do you let her believe a lie? It's only till we get out of this place. If we get out. If. On that note, his thoughts subsided to sullen silence.&quot;<br /><br /> Shortly after that, Loial comes back to ride with Rand while 'Selene' talks with Hurin. This occurs:<br /><br /> &quot;I don't care about Aielman,&quot; Rand said hotly. &quot;If Selene knows so much, I hope she read how to get us home from here. I wish Selene -&quot;<br /> &quot;You wish Selene what?&quot; The woman laughed as she joined them.<br /> Rand stared at her as if she had been gone months; that was how he felt.&quot;<br /><br /> And only a few minutes later, we see Rand pleading with her to stay with him:<br /><br /> &quot;Stay with me Selene,&quot; he said. &quot;We'll find the Horn, and Mat's dagger, and we'll find a way back. I promise you. Just stay with me.&quot;<br /> &quot;You always...&quot; Selene drew a deep breath as if to calm herself. &quot;You always are so stubborn. Well, I can admire stubborness in a man. There is little to a man who's too easily biddable.&quot;<br /> Rand colored; it was too much like the things Egwene sometimes said, and they had all but been promised in marriage since they were children. From Selene, the words and, the direct look that went with them, were a shock.&quot; All preceding quotes are from TGH, chap. 16.<br /><br /> After they use the Portal Stone to get back to the real world, this happens:<br /><br /> &quot;You did it,&quot; Selene said, leaning closer, until her face filled Rand's eyes. &quot;I knew that you could.&quot;<br /> Rand's laughter died. &quot;I - I suppose I did.&quot; He glanced at the fallen Portal Stone and managed a weak laugh. &quot;I wish I knew what I did though.&quot;<br /> Selene looked deep into his eyes. &quot;Perhaps one day you will know,&quot; she said softly. &quot;You are surely destined for great things.&quot;<br /> Her eyes seemed as dark and deep as night, as soft as velvet. Her mouth.... If I kissed her.... He blinked and stepped back hurriedly, clearing his throat.&quot;<br /><br /> 'Selene' then convinces Rand to wait for Fain. Here is the conversation:<br /><br /> &quot;A few days wil see if I'm right,&quot; she said impatiently. &quot;Hurin can find where he left the trail; he said so. We can watch over it. The Horn of Valere cannot be much longer reaching here. The Horn of Valere, Rand. Think of it. The man who sounds the Horn will live in legend forever.&quot;<br /> &quot;I don't want anything to do with legends,&quot; he said sharply. But if the Darkfriends get by you.... What if Ingtar lost them? Then the Darkfriends have the Horn of Valere forever, and Mat dies. &quot;All right, a few days. At the worst, we will probably meet Ingtar and the others. I can't imagine they've stopped or turned back just because we ... went away.&quot;<br /> &quot;A wise decision, Rand,&quot; Selene said, &quot;and well thought out.&quot; She touched his arm and smiled, and he found himself again thinking of kissing her.&quot; TGH, chap. 17.<br /><br /> This next scene is a POV from Rand, as they wait for Fain:<br /><br /> &quot;One more day, he thought drowsily. Just one more, and then we go. If no one comes tomorrow, Ingtar or Darkfriends one, I'll take Selene to Cairhien.<br /> He had told himself that before. Every day they had been there on the mountainside, watching the place where Hurin said the trail had been, in that other world - where Selene said the Darkfriends would surely appear in this world - he told himself it was time to leave. And Selene talked of the Horn of Valere, and touched his arm, and looked into his eyes, and before he knew it he had agreed to yet another day before they went on.<br /> He shrugged against the chill of the wind, thinking of Selene touching his arm and looking into his eyes. If Egwene saw that, she'd shear me for a sheep, and Selene, too. Egwene could already be in Tar Valon by now, learning to be an Aes Sedai. The next time she sees me, she'll probably try to gentle me.<br /> As he shifted over, his hand slid past the sword and touched the bundle holding Thom Merrilin's harp and flute. Unconsciously, his fingers tightened on the gleeman's cloak. I was happy then, I think, even running for my life. Playing the flute for my supper. I was too ignorant to know what was going on. There's no turning back.&quot; <br /><br /> This is when he wakes to find 'Selene' with his saddlebags. While she changes into one of his shirts, Rand tells her they are going to leave for Cairhien in the morning. She starts trying to talk him out of it:<br /><br /> &quot;Think of the glory, Rand.&quot; Her hand touched his back, and he almost shamed himself with a squeak. &quot;Think of the glory that will come to the one that finds the Horn of Valere. How proud I'll be to stand beside him who holds the Horn. You have no idea the heights we will scale together, you and I. With the Horn of Valere in your hand, you can be a king. You can be another Artur Hawkwing. You....&quot;<br /> &quot;Lord Rand!&quot; Hurin panted into the campsite.<br /><br /> Hurin has spotted the fire from Fain's camp. 'Selene' convinces Rand to go check it out:<br /><br /> &quot;As Rand climbed to the bay's back, Selene caught his hand. &quot;Remember the glory,&quot; she said softly. &quot;Remember.&quot; &quot; all preceding quotes are from TGH, chap. 19.<br /><br /> Rand and Loial steal the Horn and dagger from Fain, and return to their camp, where 'Selene' opens the chest. Before she can touch it, Rand reaches over her shoulder to grab the Horn. He returns it to the chest, and is about to close it when she reminds him of the dagger. She warns him not to cut himself with it, before Rand tells all of them that it's from Shadar Logoth, and Mat needs it so he can be Healed. (Obviously she already knew how dangerous the dagger was). They break camp and head for Cairhien that night. <br /><br /> The following morning, 'Selene' demands to see the Horn again when they stop to rest. Rand refuses her, saying he wants to keep the dagger shielded:<br /><br /> &quot;The dagger! All you seem to care about is that dagger. I told you to be rid of it. The Horn of Valere, Rand.&quot;<br /> &quot;No.&quot;<br /> She came to him, a sway in her walk that made him feel as if he had something caught in his throat. &quot;All I want is to see it in the light of day. I won't even touch it. You hold it. It would be something for me to remember, you holding the Horn of Valere in your hands.&quot; She took his hands as she said it; her touch made his skin tingle and his mouth go dry.<br /> Something to remember - when she had gone.... He could close the dagger up again as soon as the Horn was out of the chest. It would be something to hold the Horn in his hands where he could see it in the light.<br /> He wished he knew more of the Prophecies of the Dragon. The one time he heard a merchant's guard telling a part of it, back in Emond's Field, Nynaeve had broken a broom across the man's shoulders. None of the little he had heard mentioned the Horn of Valere.<br /> Aes Sedai trying to get me to do what they want. Selene was still gazing intently into his eyes, her face so young and beautiful that he wanted to kiss her despite what he was thinking.&quot;<br /><br /> In this next scene, the group approaches the excavation of the Sa'angreal. The void forms around Rand instantly:<br /><br /> &quot;This is dangerous,&quot; Selene said. &quot;Come away, Rand.&quot;<br /> &quot;I believe I can find a way down there,&quot; he said absently. Saidin sang to him. The huge ball seemed to glow white with the light of the sinking sun. It seemed to him that in the depths of the crystal, light swirled and danced in time to the song of saidin. He wondered why the men below did not appear to notice.<br /> Selene rode close and took hold of his arm. &quot;Please, Rand, you must come away.&quot; He looked at her hand, puzzled, then followed her arm up to her face. She seemed genuinely worried, perhaps even afraid. <br /><br /> A few seconds later, she pleads with him:<br /><br /> &quot;Please, Rand,&quot; Selene said. &quot;I will go to the village with you. I won't mention the Horn again. Only come away!&quot;<br /><br /> A short time later, they reach the inn, The Nine Rings:<br /><br /> &quot;Selene still seemed uneasy when he helped her dismount. &quot;Are you all right?&quot; he asked. &quot;I didn't frighten you back there, did I? Red would never fall over a cliff with me.&quot; He wondered what had really happened.<br /> &quot;You terrified me,&quot; she said in a tight voice, &quot;and I do not frighten easily. You could have killed yourself, killed....&quot; She smoothed her dress. &quot;Ride with me. Tonight. Now. Bring the Horn, and I will stay by your side forever. Think of it. Me by your side, and the Horn of Valere in your hands. And that will only be the beginning, I promise. What more could you ask for?&quot;<br /> Rand shook his head. &quot;I can't, Selene. The Horn....&quot; He looked around. A man looked out his window across the way, then twitched the curtains closed, evening darkened the street, and there was no one else in sight now except Loial and Hurin. &quot;The Horn is not mine. I told you that.&quot; She turned her back on him, her white cloak walling him off as effectively as bricks.&quot; all preceding quotes from TGH, chap. 20.<br /><br /> What point am I trying to make? Let's compare what 'Selene' was doing to Rand, to what Rahvin does to Morgase. This first quote comes when Mat delivers Elayne's letter:<br /><br /> &quot;He (Gaebril / Rahvin) reached over Morgase's shoulder and plucked the letter out of her hand. Her glare turned on him - Mat could see her temper heating - but the dark man laid a strong hand on her shoulder, never taking his eyes off what he was reading, and Morgase's anger melted.&quot; TDR, chap. 46.<br /><br /> In this one, Morgase is visiting with Lady Alteima when Rahvin enters the room and puts his hand on her shoulder:<br /><br /> &quot;It was Morgase who answered; Alteima could not seem to find her tongue with him watching her. &quot;This is the High Lady Alteima, Gaebril. She has been telling me all about the Dragon Reborn. She was in the Stone of Tear when it fell. Gaebril, there really were Aiel -&quot; The pressure of his hand cut her off. Irritation flashed across her face, but then it was gone, replaced by a smile beaming up at him.&quot; TFoH, chap. 1.<br /><br /> The next one comes just before she leaves him:<br /><br /> &quot;I think not, Lord Gaebril,&quot; Morgase said coldly. &quot;You will come with me now. And these others will be out of the Palace before I return, or I will exile them from Caemlyn completely.&quot;<br /> Suddenly he was on his feet, a big man, towering over her. She seemed unable to look at anything but his dark eyes; her skin tingled as if an icy wind were blowing through the courtyard. &quot;You will go and wait for me, Morgase.&quot; His voice was a distant roar filling her ears. &quot;I have dealt with all that needs dealing with. I will come to you this evening. You will go now. You will go.&quot; TFoH, chap. 19.<br /><br /> We see Rahvin doing to Morgase, the same things 'Selene' was doing to Rand in TGH. Touching the arm and staring into the eyes. Moghedien does something similar to Liandrin:<br /><br /> &quot;You thought you had learned something of compulsion,&quot; Moghedien went on. &quot;I will teach you a bit more.&quot; For an instant Liandrin shivered, Moghedien's eyes filling her vision as the woman's voice filled her ears, her entire head. &quot;Live.&quot; The instant passed, and sweat beaded on Liandrin's face as the Chosen smiled at her.&quot; TFoH, chapter 34.<br /><br /> We also learn this, from Rahvin's POV:<br /><br /> &quot;Rahvin handled the flows of Spirit he had woven around the pair delicately. There was no need to damage valuable servants. <br /> He did not sweat, of course. He did not let the summer's lingering heat touch him. He was a tall man, large, dark and handsome despite the white streaking his temples. Compulsion had presented no difficulties with this woman.<br /> A scowl twisted his face. It did with some. A few - a very few - had a strength of self so firm that their minds searched, even if unaware for crevices through which to slide away. It was his bad luck that he still had some small need for one such. She could be handled, but she kept trying to find escape without knowing she was trapped.&quot;<br /><br /> And this bit of information as well:<br /><br /> &quot;When you leave here,&quot; he told her, &quot;you will remember nothing of this visit. You will remember only taking your usual morning walk.&quot; She nodded, eager to please him, and he tied off the strands of Spirit lightly, so they would evaporate from her mind shortly after she reached the street. Repeated use of compulsion made obedience easier even when it was not in use, but while it was, there was always a danger it might be detected.&quot; TFoH, Prologue.<br /><br /> Another misconception has been shattered, at least for those that thought 'Selene's' beauty was what had Rand befuddled. It should now be obvious to all that she was using compulsion on him. Her eye contact and touches were as relentless as her constant mentions of the Horn and her ceaseless badgering for him to seek fame and glory. I lost track of how many times Rand thought of kissing her, a sign of adoration we see in other compulsion victims. And look how easily she talked him into waiting for Fain, even after he had decided to leave, when we&#8217;ve heard time and again how stubborn the men from the Two Rivers are once they&#8217;ve made up their mind. <br /><br /> Rand must repeatedly remind himself of his love for Egwene, and argues with himself in his attempts to fight off the effects. Thoughts of Emond's Field, Nynaeve, Mat and the dagger, and handling Thom's cloak, all spark memories that help break the spell.<br /> <br /> Compare this to Morgase, in tFoH, and her attempt to fight off the compulsion being used on her by Rahvin. One of the things she does is to go see Lini in her room. While she is there, she picks up the painted ivory miniatures of Elayne, herself and her mother. Seeing and handling these items, recalls old memories for her. In fact, the chapter title is called Memories. These recollections are what help to enable her to shake off the effects of Rahvin&#8217;s compulsion.<br /><br /> One other thing worth mentioning here; when Rand went to recover the Horn from Fain, he entered the void. When he returned to camp, he was more in control of himself, more determined. So it appears that doing this helps break or weaken the effects of compulsion, too. The final blow for 'Selene' and her compulsion, then, was Rand entering the void at the excavation. Notice that he refuses to go with her, even though she says she will stay with him forever. It looks as though all of her efforts were wasted, and she ends up leaving during the night.<br /> <br /> <br /> Now that we have seen 'Selene' try to compel Rand, let's take a look at her encounters with our other two ta'veren. Perrin has his first wolf dream in TDR, where Ishamael tries to talk him into giving up the axe and going back to being a blacksmith. Then this occurs:<br /><br /> &quot;Only a dream, he thought, shivering from the cold, and with that everything shifted.<br /> He stared into the mirror, a part of him not comprehending what he saw, another part accepting. A gilded helmet, worked like a lion's head, sat on his head as if it belonged there. Gold leaf covered his ornately hammered breastplate, and gold - work embellished the plate and mail on his arms and legs. Only the axe at his side was plain. A voice - his own - whispered in his mind that he would take it over any other weapon, had carried it a thousand times, in a hundred battles. No! He wanted to take it off, throw it away. I can't! There was a sound in his head, louder than a murmur, almost at the level of understanding.<br /> &quot;A man destined for glory.&quot;<br /> He spun away from the mirror and found himself staring at the most beautiful woman he had ever seen. He noticed nothing else about the room, cared to see nothing but her. Her eyes were pools of midnight, her skin creamy pale and surely softer, more smooth than her dress of white silk. When she moved toward him, his mouth went dry. He realized that every other woman he had ever seen was clumsy and ill - shaped. He shivered, and wondered why he felt cold.<br /> &quot;A man should grasp his destiny with both hands,&quot; she said, smiling. It was almost enough to warm him, that smile. She was tall, less than a hand short of being able to look him in the eyes. Silver combs held hair darker than a raven's wing. A broad belt of silver links banded a waist he could have encircled with his hands.<br /> &quot;Yes,&quot; he whispered. Inside him, startlement fought with acceptance. He had no use for glory. But when she said it, he wanted nothing else. &quot;I mean....&quot; The murmuring sound dug at his skull. &quot;No!&quot; It was gone, and for a moment, so was acceptance. Almost. He put a hand to his head, touched the golden helmet, took it off. &quot;I... I don't think I want this. It is not mine.&quot;<br /> &quot;Don't want it?&quot; She laughed. &quot;What man with blood in his veins would not want glory? As much glory as if you had sounded the Horn of Valere.&quot;<br /> &quot;I don't,&quot; he said, though a part of him shouted that he lied. The Horn of Valere. The Horn rang out, and the wild charge began. Death rode at his shoulder, and yet she waited ahead, too. His lover. His destroyer. &quot;No! I am a blacksmith.&quot;<br /> Her smile was pitying. &quot;Such a small thing to want. You must not listen to those who would try to turn you from your destiny. They would demean you, debase you. Destroy you. Fighting fate can only bring pain. Why choose pain, when you can have glory? When your name can be remembered alongside all the heroes of legend?&quot;<br /> &quot;I am no hero.&quot;<br /> &quot;You don't know the half of what you are. Of what you can be. Come, share a cup with me, to destiny and glory.&quot; There was a shining silver cup in her hand, filled with blood - red wine. &quot;Drink.&quot;<br /> He stared at the cup, frowning. There was something... familiar about it. A growling chewed at his brain. &quot;No!&quot; He fought away from it, refusing to listen. &quot;No!&quot;<br /> She held out the golden cup to him. &quot;Drink.&quot;<br /> Golden? I thought the cup was... It was.... The rest of the thought would not come. But in his confusion the sound came again, inside, gnawing, demanding to be heard. &quot;No.&quot; he said. &quot;No!&quot; He looked at the golden helmet in his hands and threw it aside. &quot;I am a blacksmith. I am....&quot; The sound within his head fought him, struggling toward being heard. He wrapped his arms around his head to shut it out, and only shut it in. &quot;I - am - a - man!&quot; he shouted. <br /> Darkness enfolded him, but her voice followed, whispering. &quot;The night is always there, and dreams come to all men. Especially you, my wildling. And I will always be in your dreams.&quot; TDR, chap. 4.<br /><br /> I apologize for putting the whole encounter in there, but I wanted to show a couple of things. For one, this is obviously the same 'Selene' that Rand met in TGH. This is evident by her enticements of glory, and urging him to seek his destiny, plus she even mentions the Horn of Valere. One question that might be brought up, too, did Perrin shiver from the cold, or was &#8216;Selene&#8217; using some kind of weave on him? At any rate, Perrin is able to resist whatever it is she is trying to do, because he is also fighting off the wolf inside him. (The growling and the gnawing he hears). <br /><br /> <br /> Now let's take a look at Mat's visit from 'Selene' in the White Tower. There are some interesting tid-bits of information, as well as some oddities to be found in the conversation that takes place between them. For starters, she tells Mat this:<br /> <br /> &quot;I would not have visited you in this way, Mat, except that I was in the ... in the White Tower -&quot; She smiled as if the name amused her, &quot;- for another purpose, and I wanted to see all of you.&quot;<br /> <br /> Followed by this:<br /> <br /> &quot;Pardon,&quot; May said diffidently, &quot;but do I know you? Meaning no offense, but you seem ... familiar.&quot; She looked at him until he began to shift uneasily. A woman like her would expect to be remembered.<br /> &quot;You may have seen me,&quot; she said finally. &quot;Somewhere. Call me Selene.&quot; Her head tilted slightly; she appeared to be waiting for him to recognize the name.<br /> <br /> And then this:<br /> <br /> &quot;Let us just say that I am someone whose interests coincide with yours. These ... Aes Sedai mean to use you, but you will like it, in the main, I think. And accept it. There is no need to convince you to seek out glory.&quot;<br /> &quot;Use me?&quot; The memory returned to him thinking that, but about Rand, that the Aes Sedai meant to use Rand, not him. They've no bloody use for me. Light, they can't have! &quot;What do you mean? I'm no one important. I am no use to anyone but myself. What kind of glory?&quot;<br /> &quot;I knew that would pull you. You, above all.&quot;<br /> <br /> And this exchange:<br /> <br /> &quot;Mat, Mat, you must learn to trust me. Oh, I will use you, too - you have too suspicious a nature, especially since carrying that dagger, for me to deny it - but my use will gain you wealth, and power, and glory. I will not compel you. I have always believed men perform better if convinced rather than forced. These Aes Sedai do not even realize how important you are, and he will try to dissuade or kill you, but I can give you what you desire.&quot;<br /> &quot;He?&quot; Mat said sharply. Kill me? Light, it's Rand they were after, not me. How does she know about the dagger? I suppose the whole Tower knows. &quot;Who wants to kill me?&quot;<br /> Selene's mouth tightened as if she had said too much. &quot;You know what you want, Mat, and I know it every bit as well as you. You must choose who you will trust to gain it for you. I admit I will use you. These Aes Sedai will never do that. I will lead you to wealth and glory. They will keep you tied to a leash until you die.&quot;<br /> &quot;You say a lot,&quot; Mat said, &quot;but how do I know any of it is true? How do I know I can trust you any more than than I can them?&quot;<br /> &quot;By listening to what they tell you, and what they do not. Will they tell you your father came to Tar Valon?&quot;<br /> &quot;My da was here?&quot;<br /> &quot;A man named Abel Cauthon, and another named Tam al'Thor. They made a nuisance of themselves until they gained an audience, I have heard, wanting to know where you and your friends were.&quot;<br /> <br /> She goes on to tell him that Rand is trying to escape, and that Moiraine is chasing him. The encounter between them ends with this:<br /> <br /> &quot;Do as these Aes Sedai wish for the present, but remember your choices. Will you do that?&quot;<br /> &quot;I don't see that I have much choice at all,&quot; he said glumly. &quot;I suppose I will.&quot;<br /> Selene's look sharpened. Friendliness sloughed off her like an old snake skin. &quot;Suppose? I did not come to you like this, talk in this way, for suppose, Matrim Cauthon.&quot; She stretched out a slim hand.<br /> Her hand was empty, and she stood halfway across the room, but he leaned back, away from her hand, as if she were right on top of him with a dagger. He did not know why, really, except that there was a threat in her eyes, and he was sure it was real. His skin began to tingle, and his headache returned.<br /> Suddenly tingle and pain vanished together, and Selene's head whipped around as if listening to something beyond the walls. A tiny frown appeared on her face, and she lowered her hand.&quot; all preceding quotes are from TDR, chap. 20.<br /><br /> Once again, we can see this is the same 'Selene' as before, offering her enticements of glory. If you'll notice, she tells each one of the three boys that they are destined for great things. She also says it's better to follow that destiny willingly, than to be forced to it. Then she turns right around and uses compulsion or some other weave on them. (She also warns Mat and Perrin both, of someone trying to dissuade them from following their chosen fate, referring to Ishamael). It also appears she had further plans for Mat and Perrin, as well as Rand, but she never follows through with them for some reason. Of course the most obvious thing she was trying to do was bait them all with prospects of fame and glory that would lead them to the Shadow. <br /><br /> <br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-09 09:53:42
subject: The Longest Theory- Part 3
body:
<p><b>Theory III: Selene&#8217;s True Identity</b><br /><br /> Many of you are going to say I&#8217;ve lost it when you read this theory. Go ahead and read it anyway, and laugh if you want. <br /><br /> After the battle at Falme, there is a rather long break in the action for our main characters, about a hundred days in fact. Rand, Perrin, Min and the rest of this group camped out in the Mountains of Mist for the winter. This gave some time for Rand to recover, as well as giving time for Egwene and that group to get most of the way back to the White Tower. On the other hand, we know that the Forsaken were not exactly idle during this time. While Morgase went to the White Tower to visit an absent Elayne, Rahvin moved into Andor and helped put down an uprising. By the time Morgase returns, he has made a name for himself there. In the meantime, Sammael and Be'lal have been solidifying themselves in Illian and Tear respectively. Plus, we can deduce that Graendal and Mesaana were freed from the seals as well. <br /><br /> As for Graendal and Mesaana, the following quote gives us knowledge they were free of the seals. I take you to Lord of Chaos, where Graendal is speaking to Sammael, and she has just told him that Demandred and Semirhage missed their last meeting: <br /> <br /> &quot;Mesaana in particular was annoyed, though she tried to hide it. She thinks Lews Therin soon will be in our hands, but then she has said the same every time. She was sure Be'lal would kill or capture him in Tear; she was very proud of that trap.&quot; LoC, chap. 6.<br /><br />With just those two last sentences, Graendal gives us quite a bit of information. From the way it's worded, apparently Mesaana bragged about the trap in Tear to Graendal, and is now hinting of the most recent plot to kidnap Rand and take him to the Tower. Graendal effectively tells us that she was free at the time, and also not a part of the plan at the Stone. And by the same token, we learn that Mesaana was involved with the trap by the pride she displayed. (Therefore we also know she was free in time to be involved.)<br /><br /> From that conversation, we know that Be'lal and Mesaana were linked in the conspiracy to kill or capture Rand in the Stone of Tear. As a reminder, this &quot;trap&quot; consisted of two parts: (1) luring Elayne, Egwene, and Nynaeve to Tear as bait, and, (2) enticing Rand to rescue them and take Callandor. Now we need to determine when the plan started to take shape, and what transpired to make it all happen. <br /><br /> If you recall the wolf dream of Perrin's in TDR chapter 4, you will recall that Be'lal and Rahvin were having a heated discussion. Ishamael joins them after a time, and they all end up arguing. Then Ishamael ends it by setting off a huge fireball. Now, for those of us that never made the connection, we do find out what the argument was all about, when Mat listens in on a conversation between Rahvin and Comar. Mat has climbed over the wall to the palace in Caemlyn, and hears this from beneath a window: <br /> <br /> &quot;It will serve him (Be&#8217;lal) right if three untrained girls can foil him. He was always a fool, and he is still a fool.&quot;<br /><br /> and this:<br /> <br /> &quot;- has been far too impatient since regaining his freedom,&quot; the deep voice was saying. &quot;He (Be'lal) never realized the best laid plans take time to mature. He wants the world in a day, and Callandor besides. The Great Lord take him!&quot; TDR, chap. 46. <br /><br /> We can see that Rahvin is still upset at Be'lal. He thinks he's foolish, greedy, and rushing ahead with ill-conceived plans. At any rate, it allows us to figure out that Be'lal started making those plans for Callandor while Rand was still in the mountains, and before the girls made it back to the White Tower. Rahvin must have found out about Be'lal's plans, thus the reason for the argument. <br /><br /> In case you may have forgotten, we know that Rahvin sent Comar to kill Elayne (as well as Egwene and Nynaeve) in the event that Be'lal might think to use her against Rahvin's own plans for Andor and Cairhien. From the argument with Be'lal and Mat's overheard conversation, it's apparent that Rahvin was definitely not involved in the plot at the Stone. In fact, he tried to thwart it.<br /><br /> Since Ishamael was at that meeting too, it should be obvious that he knew about the plan as well. From all appearances, it seems he was willing to let the plan proceed, although there is no evidence he participated either. However, when Be'lal was Balefired by Moiraine, he stepped in to prevent Rand from taking Callandor and tried to kill him.<br /><br /> Now that we've established a little background information, let's see how the plot to get Rand to the Stone of Tear unfolds:<br /><br /> While still in the mountains, Rand starts having dreams of Callandor, and feels the need to go after it. We suspect, but don't know for sure if someone is invading his dreams at this point, so it could just be the Pattern pushing him where he needs to go. (Although he does say that he {Ba'alzamon} is hunting him again in the letter he leaves behind). However, on his journey to Tear, it becomes apparent he is being pursued by the Shadow. Dark Friends come to his camp, Dark Hounds chase him, Shadowspawn disguised as his friends attack him. And this, from Rand's POV:<br /> <br /> &quot;So many faces in his dreams. Selene had come, cool and mysterious and so lovely his mouth went dry just thinking of her, offering him glory as she had - so long ago, it seemed - but now it was the sword she said he had to take. And with the sword would come her. Callandor. That was always in his dreams. Always. And taunting faces. Hands, pushing Egwene, and Nynaeve, and Elayne into cages, snaring them in nets, hurting them.&quot; TDR, The First Ship, HB, p.308.<br /><br /> That passage shows us a multi-faceted lure to urge Rand on towards Tear. The promise of glory, Callandor, Selene, and the threat of the three girls being caged. We can definitely see that 'Selene' is infiltrating his dreams. The 'snaring them in nets' might indicate Be'lal was invading his dreams as well, since he was known as the 'Netweaver'. <br /><br /> Now let's go to the White Tower, and see what took place with Mat and our three girls. They are only there for four days, but quite a few things happen in that time.<br /><br /> Soon after their arrival, Mat is taken away to await Healing, the girls are taken to their rooms to wait, while Verin goes to see the Amyrlin Seat in her study. Siuan wards the room, then Verin tells her that Rand has proclaimed himself as the Dragon Reborn, about the Seanchan, what the girls have learned and done, and that Mat was the one that blew the Horn of Valere. This is when we learn about Mat being tied to the Horn until death. Siuan also ponders about whom else she might get to blow it. Ultimately, by deciding to Heal Mat, it becomes clear that Siuan plans to use him as the Hornsounder again.<br /><br /> Next, the three girls are brought to see the Amyrlin. She tells them about Liandrin and the twelve other Black sisters that fled after murdering and stealing, and informs Egwene and Elayne that they will be raised to Accepted. Elayne is sent away, and Siuan tells Egwene and Nynaeve they are going to hunt out the Black Ajah for her. On the way back to their rooms, they are shot at by a Gray Man. Later that same day, they inform Elayne about hunting for the Black Ajah, and she joins in the search. Mat is Healed that evening.<br /><br /> When Mat wakes the next day some of his memories start coming back to him, like blowing the Horn. A short time later, 'Selene' pays her visit and they have their conversation. <br /><br /> We learn a few things from that conversation. For one, Selene knows that the Aes Sedai have plans to use Mat. At this point, the only plan Siuan had was to let Mat continue to be the Hornsounder, which I mentioned earlier. Thus we learn that 'Selene' was in the White Tower the day before and eavesdropped through Siuan's ward. The &quot;They will keep you tied to a leash until you die&quot; statement confirms this. (This is how the Shadow knows that Mat blew the Horn, BTW. Prior to this, Ishamael thought Rand blew it). <br /><br /> Later that same day, we see Egwene on her way to see Verin, whose quarters are above the library. For those of you that may have missed it, there is a POV from her along the way through the corridors:<br /> <br /> &quot;Many of the lamps were unlit, plunging much of the hall into gloom. Egwene thought she had it to herself, except for a flash of white ahead, perhaps a novice or servant scurrying about some task. Her shoes, clicking on bare black and white floor tiles, made echoes. It was not a comforting place for one thinking of the Black Ajah.&quot; TDR, chap. 20.<br /><br /> This little blurb would not be worth mentioning if it weren't for what happens later. We know that 'Selene' planted information about the Black sisters that fled the Tower, and hid it beneath the library in a storage room. I'm confident that this is Jordan's attempt to show us the deed being carried out. Egwene thinking about the Black Ajah at that time is another hint of that being the case as well.<br /><br /> Egwene then makes her visit to Verin, where she is given the dream ring ter'angreal, along with information about the Black sisters and what they stole. That evening, she and Elayne go through the arch ter'angreal for their Accepted test.<br /><br /> The following day, Mat encounters 'Else Grinwell' on a deserted garden path, and later we see her visit the wonder girls and tell them the Amyrlin sent her. She sees Egwene holding the ring ter'angreal, tells them about the items in the basement of the library, and leaves. When Egwene tries to chase her down, all she finds is a beautiful woman that can only be described as 'Selene' once again. The girls go on to recover the items from the storage room, and discover information pointing to the Black sisters making plans for going to Tear. So much information in fact, that it is more than apparent it's a set-up for a trap. That night, Egwene uses the ring and meets 'Silvie' in Tel'aran'rhiod, in the Stone of Tear. One of the things &#8216;Silvie&#8217; tells her is about Callandor:<br /> <br /> &quot;Ah, the High Lords don't like having it here. They like nothing to do with the Power. They'd rid themselves of it, if they could. If they could. I suppose there's others would take it, if they could. What wouldn't one of the Forsaken give, to hold Callandor?&quot; TDR chap. 27.<br /><br /> I should point out here that 'Silvie' was waiting for Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod. She says, &#8220;Well, you&#8217;ve found your way at last, child.&#8221; to tell us this. Since 'Else' / 'Selene' saw her with the ring, we can assume she knew what it was, and knew she would try to use it. We can therefore figure out that all three of them are the same person.<br /><br /> The next day, Nynaeve tells the Amyrlin about 'Else Grinwell' delivering her message, the clues they found in the storage room, and asks her about Callandor. Siuan informs her that Else was sent home ten days ago, and that Callandor is a powerful Sa'angreal. She also says it's an obvious trap, but, if they can prevent Callandor from falling into the wrong hands, it's worth the price of their lives. The girls leave for Tear that night, after convincing Mat to carry Elayne's letter to Morgase.<br /><br /> So, this was how the girls were lured into going to Tear. Not only to chase down the Black sisters, but also to prevent Callandor from falling into the hands of a Forsaken, as 'Silvie' warned. As for the Shadow, they got the bait for their trap to go there of their own accord.<br /><br /> I apologize for dragging you through all of that, but it was necessary to prove my point. And most of you are probably still wondering just exactly what I'm trying to get at with all of this. There's a problem with that whole scenario, as I see it. <br /><br /> Be'lal and Mesaana were supposed to be involved in the trap. We know that Be'lal was waiting in Tear, and possibly tormenting Rand's dreams along his way there. But where is Mesaana? What part did she play?<br /><br /> Again and again, we see 'Selene'. She is in Rand's dreams, urging him on to Tear and Callandor. She visits Mat in his room at the Tower. Almost certainly she hides the clues in the library. Then she delivers a message disguised as 'Else' to the girls, telling them where the items are stored. We see her running into Mat in the garden disguised as 'Else'. And of course, 'Silvie' delivers a warning to Egwene about Callandor and how much a Forsaken would desire having it. But no Mesaana.<br /><br /> Did Mesaana simply think up the plan, and then let Lanfear do all of the rest? The question that must be asked then, is this: Why ask Lanfear to help? Was she residing in the White Tower at that time, and had access to the girls? We have no proof of that, and every reason to doubt it. I take you to a POV from Alviarin:<br /> <br /> &quot;She had met others of the Chosen, whom fools called the Forsaken. Lanfear had come within the Tower, and Graendal, imperious in their strength and knowledge, making it clear without words that Alviarin was far beneath them, a scullery maid to run errands and wriggle with pleasure if she received a kind word. Be'lal had snatched Alviarin away in the night while she slept - to where she still did not know.&quot; ACoS, Prologue.<br /><br /> These varied Forsaken coming to the Tower indicates that none of them stayed there for any extended length of time. I base this statement on the fact that we have never seen one of the Forsaken sharing their territory, or a Forsaken going into another's domain except to visit. In addition to that, Alviarin only says she had met some of the other Chosen. This infers a one-time encounter, and not a long-term relationship. &#8220;Lanfear had come within the Tower, and Graendal,&#8221; sounds as though they visited there exactly once, in fact. From the way it looks, all three of these Forsaken were only seeking information from the head of the Black Ajah. So it's highly doubtful that Lanfear ever resided in the White Tower. <br /><br /> The truth is, having Lanfear involved in the plot doesn't add up either. Remember, Be'lal planned to kill, or capture Rand and take Callandor. Luring Rand to Tear to face Be'lal, was, in essence, sending him to almost certain death. Knowing how much Lanfear loved Lews Therin, it's unbelievable that she would take such a risk. She would have had to trust Be'lal enough to only capture him, and we've all seen how little trust the Forsaken have for one another. We&#8217;ve also seen that the male Forsaken are much more likely to want to kill Rand than capture him. Plus, once Be&#8217;lal had Callandor in his possession, who would be able to stop him from doing as he wished afterward? I have some very serious doubts that power-hungry Lanfear would help one of the male Forsaken get their hands on a sa&#8217;angreal like Callandor, and so should everyone. She wants to rule the world, not play second fiddle to Be&#8217;lal.<br /><br /> There is another reason to doubt Lanfear would be brought in to the plan as well. It comes from Loial, when he tells us what he knows about Be&#8217;lal:<br /> <br /> &quot;Jalanda son of Aried son of Coiam wrote that he (Be'lal) was called the Envious, that he forsook the Light because he envied Lews Therin, and that he envied Ishamael and Lanfear, too.&quot; TDR, chap. 50.<br /><br /> Here is a man that forsook the Light because of envy of LTT, and we learn that he was also envious of Lanfear. Can we even begin to imagine that he would trust so much of his plot to be carried out by her, and not kill Rand if given the chance? I, for one, find that very difficult to believe. <br /><br /> The real problem to be solved is simply our own perception. In The Great Hunt, we are introduced to 'Selene', and we all figure out that she's Lanfear. She even tells Min that she is. Then, when we see 'Selene' again in The Dragon Reborn, we don't even question it, even after we've read the subsequent books and have all the clues we need to figure it out.<br /><br /> Mesaana disguised herself as 'Selene'.<br /><br /> We know that Mesaana was involved in the plot at Tear. &quot;She was very proud of that trap&quot;, implies much more than just thinking up the plan, then sitting back and letting someone else carry it out. When you look at what was actually involved in getting the girls to go to Tear, why would Mesaana need help from anyone? Face the facts, it really wasn't a complicated plan. Involving Lanfear would be unnecessary and problematic.<br /><br /> We've also been told repeatedly that Mesaana was the one residing in the White Tower. Not Lanfear. This seems to get brushed aside because we don't know exactly when she arrived there. (In fact, we aren&#8217;t told she's staying there until Lord of Chaos, chap. 6.) When she moved in is still unknown. However, I think there are indications that she has been dropping in occasionally:<br /> <br /> 'Selene' told Mat that she 'heard' that Tam and his father came to the Tower looking for him and his friends. Leanne later says she gave them some gold and he and Tam left before the heavy snows came. That would be before winter set in, long before the girls arrived back at the Tower. <br /><br /> She also disguised herself as Else Grinwell, who had been gone from the Tower for seven days before the girls got back to Tar Valon. So, she would have to have been there at some earlier time to know her face. Using Else as a disguise could indicate that Mesaana had not taken up residence in the Tower at this time. This ruse is probably out of convenience, and hints that she hasn't picked a permanent identity there yet. <br /><br /> There might be more to prove that Mesaana hasn't moved into the Tower as well. Before Mat encounters 'Else' on the path in the garden, we had just gotten a POV from him:<br /><br /> &quot;If there were ways out of the Tower grounds that were not watched, this seemed to be the place to find them.&quot; TDR, chap. 24.<br /><br /> Did you ever wonder why 'Else' was in a deserted part of the Tower grounds? This is most likely where Mesaana made her gateways in and out of the Tower, at least at that time. Why else would she have been there, and been so surprised to see Mat? I believe this shows that she hadn't taken up living in the Tower yet, but she had a place she knew well enough to make gateways for Traveling.<br /><br /> She was also in and out of the Tower for three consecutive days while Mat and the girls were there. However, we can see that these visits were short, and for the express intent of enticing Mat and setting up the trap for Rand. <br /><br /> It would appear that I'm trying to show that Mesaana wasn't residing in the Tower, when I should be doing just the opposite. While that may be true, I don't think the evidence is sufficient to prove that she was at the time. She was a frequent visitor, but not a resident. My opinion is that none of the Forsaken were staying there at this point. Besides, I believe there is sufficient reason to doubt that Lanfear would work with Be'lal on a plot to kill Rand. Plus, I have more evidence too. <br /><br /> In A Crown of Swords, Prologue, we get another clue:<br /> &quot;On her knees, Alviarin repeated every word that Elaida had said, though she wondered why it was necessary. In the beginning she had left out unimportant bits, and Mesaana knew every time, demanded every word, every gesture and facial expression. Plainly she eavesdropped on those meetings.&quot;<br /><br /> I've already pointed out that 'Selene' eavesdropped on Siuan and Verin's conversation that was warded. That's how she knew that the decision to Heal Mat meant they intended to use him as the Hornsounder. Otherwise, they would have let him die, and broken his connection to the Horn. She also listened in on the conversation between Siuan and the girls. This is how she knew they were hunting the Black Ajah, and why she set them up with the planted clues. (The Gray Man taking a shot at them was probably just a little incentive to get them to leave the Tower ASAP) Again, this eavesdropping may not be conclusive evidence, but we know that Mesaana does this kind of spying in the White Tower.<br /><br /> Remember the conversation between Mat and 'Selene', where I mentioned there were some oddities? Let's take a look at some of those:<br /> <br /> &quot;I would not have visited you in this way, Mat, except that I was in the ... in the White Tower -&quot; She smiled as if the name amused her, &quot;- for another purpose, and I wanted to see all of you.&quot;<br /> <br /> And this one:<br /> <br /> &quot;Suppose? I did not come to you like this, talk in this way, for suppose, Matrim Cauthon.&quot;<br /><br /> When I first read these lines, I took it to mean coming to see Mat in person, instead of in his dreams. However, we have never seen 'Selene' in Mat's dreams, ever. If you look at it from the perspective of Mesaana saying this, it takes on an entirely different meaning: (Looking like Lanfear, acting like Lanfear, saying the things that Lanfear would say.).<br /><br /> Some of you are probably still doubtful. There are still a few reasons to be confused about the Lanfear / Selene / Mesaana situation. And it's hard to convince ourselves that we could have been fooled so easily, for so long. So I have another piece of evidence to show you. I was reminded of it by what took place in Crossroads of Twilight:<br /><br /> &quot;The pale, black - clad shape bent toward her, and she would have shrieked when he touched a finger to her forehead. She would have shrieked if she could have summoned any sound at all. Her lungs were airless sacks. The touch burned like red - hot iron. Vaguely she wondered why she did not smell her own flesh burning. The Great Lord straightened, and the searing pain dwindled, vanished. Her terror did not lessen in the slightest, though.&quot;<br /> &quot;You are marked as mine,&quot; the Great Lord rasped. &quot;Mesaana will not harm you, now. Unless I give her permission.&quot; CoT, chapter 21.<br /><br /> A mark on the forehead, undoubtedly placed there using the True Power, indicating his possession of her. <br /><br /> We have seen something like this before. I take you back to the end of The Great Hunt. After the fight between Rand and Ba'alzamon, Min has found Rand and carried him to a bed. The chapter is appropriately called, First Claiming, here's an excerpt:<br /><br /> &quot;Not Rand al'Thor,&quot; said a musical voice from the door. &quot;Lews Therin Telamon. The Dragon Reborn.&quot;<br /> The woman came to stand over the bed - her movements were so graceful, Min felt a stab of envy, though she had never envied any woman anything - and smoothed Rand's hair as if Min were not there. &quot;He doesn't believe yet, I think. He knows, but he does not believe. I have guided his steps, pushed him, pulled him, enticed him. He was always stubborn, but this time I will shape him. Ishamael thinks he controls events, but I do.&quot; Her finger brushed Rand's forehead as if drawing a mark; Min thought to herself uneasily that it looked like a Dragon's Fang. Rand stirred, murmuring, the first sound or movement he had made since she found him.<br /> &quot;Who are you?&quot; Min demanded. The woman looked at her, only looked, but she found herself shrinking back into her pillows, clutching Rand to her fiercely.<br /> &quot;I am called Lanfear, girl.&quot; TGH, chap. 48.<br /><br /> A touch on the forehead, again, undoubtedly using the Power. Sound familiar?<br /><br />Now let's go to The Shadow Rising, when Lanfear comes to visit Rand in the Stone of Tear:<br /> <br /> &quot;Selene,&quot; he gasped, hurrying to her. &quot;Where did you come from? How did you get here? I thought you must still be in Cairhien, or ....&quot; Looking down at her, he did not want to say he feared she might be dead or a starving refugee.<br /> A woven silver belt glittered around her narrow waist; silver combs worked with crescent moons shone in hair that fell to her shoulders like waterfalls of night. She was still the most beautiful woman he had ever seen. Elayne and Egwene were only pretty beside her. For some reason though, she did not affect him the way she had; perhaps it was the long months since he had last seen her, in a Cairhien not yet racked by civil war.<br /> &quot;I go where I wish to be.&quot; She frowned at his face. &quot;You have been marked, but no matter. You were mine, and you are mine. Any other is no more than a caretaker whose time has passed. I will lay claim to what is mine openly, now.&quot;<br /> He stared at her. Marked? Did she mean his hands? And what did she mean, he was hers? &quot;Selene,&quot; he said gently, &quot;we had pleasant days together - and hard days; I'll never forget your courage, or your help - but there was never more between us than companionship. We travelled together, but that was the end of it. You will stay here in the Stone, in the best apartments, and when peace returns to Cairhien, I will see that your estates there are returned to you, if I can.&quot;<br /> &quot;You have been marked.&quot; She smiled wryly. &quot;Estates in Cairhien? I may have had estates in those lands, once. The land has changed so much that nothing is as it was. Selene is only a name I sometimes use, Lews Therin. The name I made my own is Lanfear.&quot; TSR, chap. 9.<br /><br /> In the Great Hunt excerpt, we clearly see someone claiming to be Lanfear marking Rand's forehead. From the way she says she has guided him, enticed him, pushed and pulled him, it's quite obvious it's the 'Selene' we saw throughout TGH doing all of those things. <br /><br /> Please notice that Lanfear in the Stone of Tear looks at Rand&#8217;s face, (not his hands), frowns, and then says he has been marked. This makes it glaringly obvious she is not the one that put the mark there. When Rand mentions returning her to her estates in Cairhien, where &#8216;Selene&#8217; told him she&#8217;s from in TGH, she repeats her statement about him being marked, and she has no clue as to what estates he's talking about.<br /><br />It's also quite clear that the Lanfear in Tear is the real thing. She has come to claim Rand for her own, only to find someone else has already marked him with the Power. She even removes her Mask of Mirrors to reveal her true self:<br /><br /> &quot;The air rippled around Lanfear, and she changed. She was - older then he, certainly, but older was not the right word. More mature. Riper. Even more beautiful, if that was possible. A lush blossom in full flower compared to a bud. Even knowing what she was, she made his mouth go dry, his throat tighten.<br /> Her dark eyes examined his face, full of confidence yet with a hint of questioning, as if wondering what he saw. Whatever she perceived seemed to satisfy her. She smiled again. &quot;I was buried deeply, in a dreamless sleep where time did not flow. The turnings of the Wheel passed me by. Now you see me as I am, and I have you in my hands.&quot; She drew a fingernail along his jaw hard enough to make him flinch. &quot;The time for games and subterfuge is past, Lews Therin. Long past.&quot;<br /> His stomach lurched. &quot;Do you mean to kill me then? The Light burn you, I -&quot;<br /> &quot;Kill you?&quot; she spat incredulously. &quot;Kill you! I mean to have you, forever. You were mine long before that pale - haired milksop stole you. Before she ever saw you. You loved me!&quot;<br /><br /> Notice that Lanfear doesn't affect him the way Selene did either. (No thoughts about kissing her, thinking about what she looks like naked, etc.) Selene started using compulsion on him soon after they first met, so why doesn't Lanfear do the same here? The simple truth is, Lanfear physically touches Rand once or twice, but never uses compulsion on him. (She does enter his dream and bite him on the neck in TSR, chap. 50. However, he doesn't even recognize her until after he wakes up). The few encounters they have are brief, with little in the way of eye contact, and no arm touching like we saw in TGH. One of the main reasons I went to such lengths about showing the use of compulsion on Rand in the &#8220;What Selene Was Doing&#8221; theory, is because it shows that Mesaana felt the need to do it. (She is obviously not near as good at it as Graendal is, either.) Lanfear, on the other hand, is very confident of herself, and she wants Rand to love her willingly, not be forced into it mindlessly. This is expressed here:<br /><br /> &#8220;For what seemed a long time she studied him; he could almost see the scales weighing alternatives. &#8220;I could take you with me,&#8221; she said finally. &#8220;I could have you turned to the Great Lord whatever you want or believe. There are ways.&#8221;<br /> She paused, perhaps to see if her words had had any effect. Sweat rolled down his back, but he kept his face straight. He would have to do something, whether he had a chance or not. A second attempt to reach saidin battered vainly against that invisible barrier. He let his eyes wander as if he were thinking. Callandor was behind him, as far out of his reach as the other side of the Aryth Ocean. His belt knife lay on a table by the bed, together with a half-made fox he had been carving. The shapeless lumps of metal mocking him from above the fireplace, a drably clad man slipping in at the doors with a knife in his hand, the books lying everywhere. He turned back to Lanfear, tensing.<br /> &#8220;You were always stubborn,&#8221; she muttered. &#8220;I won&#8217;t take you, this time. I want you to come to me of your own will. And I will have it.&#8221; TSR, chapter 9.<br /><br /> Obviously, this is the Lanfear that kept on loving him, even after Lews Therin stopped loving her back in the AoL. She just wants her man back, and she's pretty possessive about him, too. Remember when she went ballistic at the docks in Cairhien after Kadere told her Rand had slept with Aviendha? She screamed out, &quot;He told me, Lews Therin! You let another woman touch you! Again!&quot; Compare that to the woman claiming to be Lanfear in Falme, that sees Min in bed with Rand. Even though he is unconscious, she shows zero reaction. This looked out of character to me.<br /><br /> Back to their meeting at the Stone - when Lanfear shields Rand and he finally realizes she's not lying about being one of the Forsaken, he thinks about reaching for Callandor. She says this:<br /><br /> &quot;I cannot trust you fully, Lews Therin. Not yet.&quot; She came closer, and he considered simply seizing her. He was bigger and stronger by far - and blocked as he was, she could wrap him up with the Power like a kitten tangled in a ball of string. &quot;Not with that, certainly.&quot; she added, grimacing at Callandor. There are only two more powerful that a man can use. One at least, I know, still exists. No, Lews Therin. I will not trust you yet with that.&quot;<br /><br /> The point to be made here is that she won't trust the man she loves with Callandor. Why would she trust Be'lal with it then? Mesaana might be willing to play second-fiddle to Be'lal, but not Lanfear.<br /><br /> Back to the Stone again - Lanfear is talking about the DO letting them rule the world together if Rand will bend knee to him:<br /><br /> &quot;You and I can rule the world together under the Great Lord, forever.&quot; Her voice dropped to a whisper, equal parts eagerness and fear. &quot;Two great sa'angreal were made just before the end, one that you can use, one that I can. Far greater than that sword. Their power is beyond imagining. With those, we could challenge even ... the Great Lord himself. Even the Creator!&quot;<br /><br /> This is the second time Lanfear has mentioned the powerful sa'angreal statues to Rand. If you remember, 'Selene' was with him when he got swept up in its power outside Cairhien. In fact, she said he had terrified her at the time, and that she didn't scare easily. Lanfear, on the other hand, says their power is beyond imagining, but if she had actually been with Rand, she would know very well that he could imagine how powerful they are. Nor does she say something like; &#8220;Remember that big statue outside Cairhien&#8230;?&#8221; <br /><br /> Just a few more points, and we'll move on. When 'Selene', Rand, Loial and Hurin were about to get to the inn outside Cairhien, she asked Rand if they couldn't spend the night outside again, sleeping under the stars. Instead, they go to the inn, and after they&#8217;ve eaten dinner, she demands a room for herself. Did you ever wonder why &#8216;Selene&#8217; doesn't take advantage of spending the night in Rand's bed? Apparently Mesaana is brave enough to borrow Lanfear&#8217;s face, but smart enough to not risk Lanfear&#8217;s wrath by sleeping with her man. <br /><br /> Another thing that I think you will see that is blatantly obvious is Mesaana&#8217;s constant lure of fame and glory and telling all three boys to follow their destiny. She also insinuates to Mat and Perrin that she will be back in the future to talk to them again. (She tells Perrin she can come to him in his dreams, and tells Mat to do as the AS want him to do for now.) Then she never visits either of them again. Why? Simply stated, the real Lanfear shows up soon after these meetings, and she can no longer impersonate her. <br /><br /> Lanfear is interested in LTT and power for herself, not fame and glory for others. Who can forget the ecstasy on her face as she describes her visit to the DO, or how she lusts after the power of the Choeden Kal? Remember the words that Rand blurted out to her in the Stone?:<br /><br /> &#8220;And you loved power!&#8221; For a moment he felt dazed. The words sounded true-he knew they were true-but where had they come from? TSR, chap. 9.<br /><br /> Not only that however, Lanfear has a different philosophy about fate and destiny, too. She tells Rand this, when he says he was born to fulfill the Prophecies by fighting the DO and the Forsaken:<br /><br /> &#8220;You do not have to. Prophecy is no more than a sign of what people hope for. Fulfilling the Prophecies will only bind you to a path leading to Tarmon Gai&#8217;don and your death.&#8221; TSR, chap.9.<br /><br /> On TOR&#8217;s new web page, a recent question of the week posed to Robert Jordon asked what Lanfear did to Rand at the end of The Great Hunt. His response:<br /><br /> &#8220;She drew the Dragon Fang on his forehead. For exactly the reason you would think.<br /><br /> After reading CoT and looking closely at Lanfear&#8217;s reaction at the Stone of Tear, I think we know exactly what that reason was. &#8220;First Claiming&#8221; was a very appropriate title for the chapter.<br /><br /> In conclusion, I remember reading TGH the very first time. After seeing the Dark Prophecy in the dungeon translated by Verin, I had figured out that &#8216;Selene&#8217; must be Lanfear long before she revealed herself after the battle in Falme, I&#8217;m sure that most of you did, too. And, we all ignored what Verin told us:<br /><br />  &quot;There were few problems with translation. Most was the usual - blasphemy and boasting; Trollocs seem to know little else - but there was one part done in a better hand. An educated Darkfriend, or perhaps a Myrddraal. It could be only taunting, yet it has the form of poetry, or song, and the sound of prophecy.&quot; TGH chapter 7.<br /><br /> And Moiraine has her doubts:<br /> <br /> &#8220;Mother,&#8221; Moiraine said, &#8220;there is nothing in this to suggest prophecy. Anyone with a little wit and a little knowledge could put together as much, and no one has ever said Myrddraal do not have a sly wit.&#8221; TGH, chapter 7.<br /><br /> Moiraine even asks Verin if she thinks it is prophecy, and she replies with this:<br /><br /> &quot;Possibly. It has the form of some of the few dark prophecies we know. And parts of it are clear enough. It could still be only a taunt, though.&quot; She rested a finger on one line. &quot; 'Daughter of the Night, she walks again.' That can only mean Lanfear is loose again. Or someone wants us to think she is.&quot; TGH, chapter 7.<br /><br />(Mesaana and Robert Jordan want us to think she&#8217;s loose again.)<br /><br /> Lanfear disguised as Selene was about as obvious as Demandred disguised as Taim, and we all know how that turned out. RJ just doesn&#8217;t do the obvious, and we should have caught on to that a long time ago. Afterall, isn&#8217;t that why we read his books?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-09 09:56:01
subject: The Longest Theory- Part 4
body:
<p><b>Theory IV: Lanfear&#8217;s First Appearance</b><br /><br /> How could Mesaana impersonate Lanfear without being caught?<br /><br /> For one thing, she had some help from Robert Jordan. If you pay attention to chapter icons, you will notice that Lanfear has her own, supposedly. However, none of the chapters in which 'Selene' appears in TGH bears her crescent moon and stars. (None in TGH at all, in fact). I could see him not doing this to keep 'Selene's' identity a secret for as long as possible, but, in the final chapter, when she claims herself to be Lanfear, why isn't it there?<br /><br /> In TDR, there are three chapters with Lanfear&#8217;s icon, chapters 20, 25, and 36. I've already shown that the 'Selene' we see in chaps. 20, (Mat's visit), and 25, (Else's visit to the girls, and her changing into 'Selene'), are the same person we saw in TGH, in my theory &#8220;What Selene Was Doing&#8221;. However, I would like to call the last chapter to your attention now.<br /><br /> Chapter 36 of TDR, is entitled, Daughter of the Night. In my hardbound edition, it's about 11 pages in all. The section Lanfear appears in amounts to 1 page. Realistically, it should have Perrin's icon, since most of the chapter is one of his wolf - dreams, or deals with him. Why is this chapter named &#8216;Daughter of the Night&#8217; and bears her icon, then? Quite simple. This is the very first time we see the real Lanfear.<br /><br /> Throughout TGH, and chaps. 20 and 25 of TDR, we only see 'Selene' with our heroes. Never do we see her with another Forsaken, where she wouldn't be able to conceal herself with a disguise. In chap. 36, we see her talking to Ishamael though, so we know for a fact this is Lanfear. Here is some of their conversation:<br /><br /> &quot;I have served the Lord of Twilight long. Long did I lie imprisoned for my service, in an endless, dreamless sleep. Only Gray Men and Myrddraal are denied dreams. Even Trollocs can dream. Dreams were always mine, to use and walk. Now I am free again, and I will use what is mine.&quot;<br /> What is yours,&quot; Ba'alzamon said. The blackness swirling 'round him seemed mirthful. &quot;You always thought yourself greater than you were, Lanfear.&quot;<br /> The woman in white was on her feet, the throne gone. &quot;I am as great as I am. What have your plans come to? Three thousand years and more of whispering in ears and pulling strings of throned puppets like an Aes Sedai!&quot; Her voice invested the name with all scorn. &quot;Three thousand years, and yet Lews Therin walks the world again, and these Aes Sedai all but have him leashed. Can you control him? Can you turn him? He was mine before that straw - haired chit Ilyena saw him! He will be mine again!&quot;<br /><br /> She certainly doesn't mention that she's been guiding his steps, enticing him, shaping him, compulsing him, pushing and pulling him in the direction she wants him to go, like the 'Lanfear' at the end of TGH. In fact, she makes it sound as if the Aes Sedai have him in hand, not her. <br /><br /> &quot;Now I am free again, and I will use what is mine.&quot; <br /><br /> Now? It sounds as though she is saying she hasn't been free for very long. And that is exactly what I believe is the case.  <br /><br /> &quot;Long did I lie imprisoned for my service, in an endless, dreamless sleep. Only Gray Men and Myrddraal are denied dreams. Even Trollocs can dream.&quot; <br /> <br /> Do you remember what she tells Rand in the Stone?<br /> <br /> &quot;I was buried deeply, in an endless dreamless sleep where time did not flow. The turnings of the Wheel passed me by.&quot; TSR, chap. 9.<br /><br /> Compare this to Aginor and Balthamel in TEotW:<br /><br /> &quot;Like Ishamael, we walk the world again, and soon the rest of us will come. I was too close to this world in my captivity, I and Balthamel, too close to the grinding of the Wheel. TEotW, chap. 50.<br /><br /> And this from Osan&#8217;gar when he is given his new body:<br /><br /> &#8220;He could not resist touching his nose and mouth and cheeks for the hundredth time to make sure they were real. Not young, but younger than the face he had worn on first waking from the long sleep, with all its endless nightmares.&#8221; LoC, Prologue.<br /><br /> The only other reference I could find of the Forsaken and their time trapped beneath the seals belongs to Demandred in the Prologue of LoC. No mention is made of nightmares, dreams or the lack thereof, but we might still surmise that Lanfear&#8217;s placement beneath the seals was so deep that this is why she had none, and that she was one of the last, if not the last Forsaken to be released.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-09 09:56:32
subject: The Longest Theory- Part 5
body:
<p><b>Theory V: Who Freed Fain?</b><br /><br /> I intended to write this theory some time ago because a lot of people misinterpreted one of mine that touched on this topic. I hope this will resolve that matter and put this &#8220;mystery&#8221; to rest. <br /><br /> I direct your attention you to TDR chapter 19, when Mat first wakes up in Tar Valon after being Healed from the dagger. We get his POV:<br /> <br /> &#8220;He had been dreaming, and bits of those dreams still tumbled together with memories in his head. He could not separate one from the other. Wild flights and fights, strange people from across the ocean, Ways and Portal Stones and pieces of other lives, things right out of gleeman&#8217;s tales, these had to be dreams. At least, he thought they must be. But Loial was no dream, and he was an Ogier. Chunks of conversations drifted around in his thoughts, talks with his father, with friends, with Moiraine, and a beautiful woman, and a ship captain, and a well-dressed man who spoke to him like a father giving sage advice. Those were probably real. But it was all bits and fragments. Drifting.&#8221;<br /><br /> Looking carefully at his recollections, we can remember seeing all of them ourselves, except for two. We&#8217;ve never seen Mat talk to his father, but we know that he has done this sometime in his life. The other one we haven&#8217;t seen is Mat talking to a beautiful woman. If you&#8217;ll trace back through his adventures prior to this time, you will see that there are very few chances for this event to have happened. Baerlon would be one such place, however, most of his time was spent at the inn. He did make an excursion into the city by himself, but he makes no mention of meeting a woman that meets that description to anyone. From Baerlon, they flee to Shadar Logoth, and his trip to Whitebridge and Caemlyn after that is pretty cloudy. Rand and Mat do meet Else Grinwell during that part of the story, but she is described as &#8220;plumply pretty&#8221;, not beautiful. The Dark Friend Lady Shiane that tries to stab them, is also described as pretty, in a sharp-featured fashion. <br /><br /> Once they reached Caemlyn, Mat spent all of his time there in his room, so no chance of it happening there either. From there, they go through the Ways to Fal Dara, the Blight, and back to Fal Dara, where they stay for some time. When they leave again to hunt for the Horn, the only places he might have met a beautiful woman would be Cairhien or Falme. While he did go to Lord Barthane&#8217;s party in Cairhien, his time there was as a servant in the back rooms. Falme was a battlefield, and doesn&#8217;t seem very likely either. (I realize this doesn&#8217;t eliminate some of those places as possibilities, but we have no mention by him of meeting a beautiful woman in any of them.) So, the best opportunity would have to be Fal Dara, IMO.<br /><br /> Of course, we don&#8217;t get to see much of Mat ourselves while he is in Fal Dara, but, there is one time that we know about that he has no memory of, and that is when he is found unconscious in the dungeon with Egwene. Could this be where he met the beautiful woman? Let&#8217;s take another look at his visit from &#8216;Selene&#8217; in the White Tower:<br /><br /> &quot;She was so beautiful he almost forgot to breathe, with hair as black as night held by a finely woven silver band, and as graceful in repose as another woman would be dancing. He halfway thought that he knew her, but he rejected the idea out of hand. No man could ever forget a woman like her.&quot;<br /><br /> And this:<br /><br /> &quot;Pardon,&quot; Mat said diffidently, &quot;but do I know you? Meaning no offense, but you seem ... familiar.&quot; She looked at him until he began to shift uneasily. A woman like her would expect to be remembered.<br /> &quot;You may have seen me,&quot; she said finally. &quot;Somewhere. Call me Selene.&quot; Her head tilted slightly; she appeared to be waiting for him to recognize the name.<br /><br /> Mat and 'Selene' have never met before this encounter, at least that we have seen. Rand did tell Mat about meeting her in the mirror world, so the name should be familiar, but not her face. So why would she say he might have seen her somewhere then? It also appears she debated with herself on how to answer this question, as if trying to figure out how much he might remember. And Mat thinks that he knew her, not that she just looked familiar. <br /><br /> I believe Mesaana disguised as &#8216;Selene&#8217;, was the one that freed Fain from the dungeon. Mat managed to see her, and maybe even talked to her, before she rendered him unconscious.  (She probably also used the same compulsion command on Mat and perhaps Egwene, too, to make them both forget, just as we see Rahvin do to the Tower spy in TFoH.) This would also mean she wrote the Dark Prophecy. Writing, &#8220;Daughter of the Night, She walks again&#8221; would be her own twisted joke as well as a deliberate misdirection by Robert Jordan. Mesaana simply took advantage of the theft of the Horn, as well as Lanfear not being free yet, to set her own plan in motion of freeing Fain, placing him in the group with the Horn, and setting him on the path to Toman Head. <br /><br /> How did she get Fain to cooperate? That part would be easy. Fain hated being turned into a hound to hunt Rand, and all it would have taken is that knowledge. Giving Fain the opportunity to possess something that Rand wanted and making him chase it seemed to please him:<br /><br /> &#8220;This time you come to me, Rand al&#8217;Thor. Before, I followed you like a dog driven on a trail, but now you follow me.&#8221; His laughter was a cackle that even he knew was mad, but he did not care. Madness was a part of him, too. &#8220;Come to me, al&#8217;Thor. The dance is not even begun yet. We&#8217;ll dance on Toman Head, and I&#8217;ll be free of you. I&#8217;ll see you dead at last.&#8221; TGH, chap. 11.<br /><br /> Could she know for certain that Fain would overcome the Fade and take control of the Horn and Trollocs as well as head toward Falme? Quite simply, yes. If you will remember, she was spotted twice by Uno as the hunters tracked Fain and the Horn, in two separate villages. So it&#8217;s obvious she was keeping tabs on the expedition to see that it was going in the right direction. <br /><br /> There are just a few more things that I think are important here. Fain was pointed towards Toman Head like an arrow at a target. He left the message for Rand saying they would meet there again, and he never faltered in his determination to get there with the Horn. And yet, when he arrived, he knew nothing about the Seanchan until he started asking people that had dealt with them. He did not even know that these people were Hawkwing&#8217;s descendants until he saw the banner above Turak&#8217;s Manor. So, we know for a fact that he did not write the Dark Prophecy or even use the information in it to decide to go there for that reason. He was obviously sent.<br /><br /> The truth is Rand was supposed to go to Falme as well, to proclaim himself as the Dragon Reborn. We learn this from Moiraine&#8217;s conversation with Vandene, where she tells us about a Prophecy in TGH, chap. 22. Rand won&#8217;t actually be the DR until he acknowledges it, and the Light and the Shadow both want and need him to do so. <br /> <br /> Sometimes it helps to put matters into a &#8220;cause-and-effect&#8221; equation to see things for what they are: <br /><br /> What happened? ~ The Horn and dagger were stolen, Fain was freed and sent to Falme.<br /><br />What effect did it have? ~ Rand is lured into helping find the stolen items. In his search, he meets a woman that uses compulsion on him, advises him to wrap himself in the void at all times, and sets tasks for him in an attempt to make him channel. (The room with the flies, the grolm and the Portal Stones.) She mentions the Horn constantly, reminding him of the fame and glory that will be his for rescuing it. Rand finds the Horn, loses it, and then helps recover it again in Falme. Ultimately, he ends up proclaiming himself just like the Prophecy said he would. <br /><br />It was a somewhat elaborate plot, with some interesting twists and turns. But the person that freed Fain wasn&#8217;t a real mystery, just disguised. She shows up at the end of the book and takes credit for it:<br /><br /> &quot;He doesn't believe yet, I think. He knows, but he does not believe. I have guided his steps, pushed him, pulled him, enticed him. He was always stubborn, but this time I will shape him.&#8221; TGH, chap. 48.  <br /><br /> Mesaana freed Fain, disguised as Selene/Lanfear.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-09 09:59:45
subject: Circle of 72
body:
<p>It seems to me that when Rand and Asmodean fought over the male Choedan Kal, it was the &quot;little fat man&quot; angreal that turned the balance.  I'm not sure, but it seems he reached for saidin through both it and the Choedan Kal access key at the same time(after already holding the source through the Choedan Kal).  This at least allows the possibility that Rand might be able to use the Coedan Kal and Callandor together at the same time.  Perhaps a female channeler could do likewise with the Tower's wand(used to heal Mat) and the female access key.  <br /> <br /> The glossary contains info about circles, stating that 72 is the largest possible link and that this sized link must be controlled by a man.  Also, for a link this size, there must be at the least 37 women(since there must be more women than men).  RJ states that the strongest links occur when the numbers are as even as possible.<br /> <br /> From the above it appears as though the strongest link would have the 37 strongest women and the 35 strongest men.  The fact that RJ provides this info in a glossary does not, of course, indicate it will be used, but this is just speculation.  Perhaps Rand will experiment, or be informed of the ability to link in numbers greater than 13.  If so, it would seem he might realize that his greatest chance of success in TG involves the strongest possible link.  <br /> <br /> Perhaps in such a link he will wield both Callandor and the Choedan Kal.  The rest of the channelers could raid the stockpiles of the White Tower and Rhuidean.  All of this requires potentially more time and organization than is currently available to the good guys, but Rand is ta'veren so you never know.<br /><br />    Callandor has no buffer, so even though the other angreal hopefully used by the rest of the link will be buffered, maybe Rand can force everyone to overload on the OP, increasing the link's power that much more.  All 72 die in the sealing, and thus Alivia could help Rand die (as per Min's viewing)if maybe she uses the female access key or is the one to figure out how to link 72 people.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-18 08:19:24
subject: Tower of Ghenjei and Book 11
body:
<p>I'm not going to try and prove here that the Tower of Ghenjei is linked with the Finns' in any way shape or form... but I will say this.  There is suffecient proof it is, and I'm using this as a basis for a Eureka moment I just had... so read other theories if you wish. I'm moving on.<br /><br />RJ just answered a question on TOR books responding to a question about the Finns' and Mat's old memories saying:<br /><br />&quot;A good question. I was wondering when someone would ask that. I expected it as soon as Mat started revealing those old memories. At least a partial answer will be coming up in the next main sequence book, so I guess you could say this is a RAFO. But I will say that if I said those adventurers all entered through the two ter'angreal, I misspoke. A good many entered through the Tower of Ghenjei, which was more widely known in earlier years, if never exactly a household name.&quot;<br /><br />After reading this I thought to myself... how in the world could somebody's memories end up with the Finns' after they died? Which was the readers initial question.<br /><br />Then RJ's cryptic refrence to the Tower of G. saying many adventures entered into it from there (assumingly meaning the Finns' land)... but that still leaves the problem of entering the Tower after they died.  <br /><br />Nobody seems to know how to get into the T of G, except one person... Slayer, right?  Now, we all know Slayer is some sort of weird combo of Luc/Isam. Whom both of which supposedly died in the Blight.<br /><br />Now we have CoT in which Spirits are beggining to walk the earth again.  Why would RJ bring up such a random thing?  Bubbles of Evil? the DO's prison busting...? I think more.  I think he's establishing the dead in our minds to prepare a path for Mat.<br /><br />Let me tie this up, since my thoughts are a bit disorganized.<br /><br />Only Spirits, or the dead can enter into The Tower.  The past adventurers died, and as spirits at somepoint entered the Tower.  Their memories were taken at that point.<br /><br />Slayer is the result of a once dead soul, and so has some special privilidge of entering the Tower, at least in the World of Dreams.<br /><br />Mat.  Mat has died once also.  Mat will find away to enter the Tower using this fact.<br /><br />And as RJ said, at least a partial answer will be given in the next main book.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-18 08:21:02
subject: Why was Asmodean Killed
body:
<p>This theory assumes that people have read all the other theories proving Graendal killed Asmodean. I never thought that she would just kill him because she had the chance.  Graendal would have needed a reason to kill beyond mere circumstance. What I am trying to add here is why she killed him and why she chose to eliminated him when she did.<br /><br />Asmodean had been working with Graendal and that is why he knew that she was in Arad Doman. (TFoH Ch3)  Asmodean then hooked up with Lanfear and went into the Waste to cause some problems with the Aiel. (TSR ch36) We see Asmodean arguing with Lanfear because their plan is dependent on Asmodean being captured by Rand and teach Rand (otherwise he wouldn&#8217;t have needed to skim , traveling would have been a good deal faster (TSR Ch57)), but when he saw the control statue, he obviously thought he had a chance to no longer be weak old Asmodean. Instead Asmodean had a chance to challenge the DO and the other forsaken with the control statue (Lanfear tells us that she has viewed his dreams which show he dreams of being raised higher than the DO --sorry, I can't find this quote right now). But Asmodean is captured and Lanfear makes him weaker than ever.<br /><br />Asmodean is under Lanfear&#8217;s control. He is too weak to do anything to control Rand and she makes certain that the other Forsaken think he is a traitor. Sammael asks Lanfear, &quot; Are you certain Asmodean went over? He never had the courage before...&quot; Lanfear answered &quot;He had the <br />courage for an ambush he thought would set him above the rest of us.&quot; (TFoH prologue) But to what end did Asmodean make himself available to be Rand&#8217;s teacher? Obviously he wants to survive, and so he has allied himself with Lanfear, but not to be Rand&#8217;s teacher, instead the only thing that would make sense is to capture Rand and to get rid of the other Forsaken. That is exactly the ends to which Asmodean works.<br /><br />Lanfear appears to form a pact with Sammael, Graendal and Rahvin to capture Rand. &quot;Ishamael tried to contol him...we can succeed where Ishamael failed.&quot; (TFoH prologue) The idea is to get Sammael to be the bait while Lanfear, Rahvin and Graendal link to capture Rand. Rahvin states this in TFoH Ch 34 when talking to Sammael, &quot;While he is fixed on you alone, the three of us, linked, will take him. What has changed in that?&quot; Moghedian knows of this plot, and reveals that they &#8211; &quot;will draw him to Sammy and the others will be waiting, at least Rahvin and Graendal will, Lanfear has other plans&quot;. (TFoH ch54)<br /><br />However, Lanfear goes against the plans because she tells Rand that the Darkhounds have come from Rahvin. &quot;Rahvin sent the Darkhounds tonight.&quot; (TFoH Ch 22) Asmodean works with her by taking &quot;hours&quot; to convince Rand that the attack of trollocs and fades &quot;...had been one of the others, hoping to send Rand against Sammael&quot; (TFoH Ch 22). So, Lanfear and Asmodean are trying to get Rand to go after Rahvin instead of Sammael.<br /><br />For their plan, Asmodean must go with Rand, so he convinces Rand to take him along on the assault on Rahvin. (Very un-Asmo behavior) Even Rand is surprised at this and asks Asmodean, &quot;So you want to come with me?... you want to be at my back when I face Rahvin?&quot; (TFOH ch 52)<br /><br />But as much as Asmodean is trying to work with Lanfear, he is still mad at her for shielding him for real, and he can&#8217;t help causing her some grief by getting Isendre to think that Rand is sleeping with Aviendha. That is why he hides the gate Avhienda makes and tells Niella that they are &#8220;indisposed&#8221;.However Asmodean&#8217;s little joke backfires on him and Lanfear gets herself killed in her rage. Therefore Asmodean is terrified (TFoH Ch53) because the plans are screwed up and he is stuck shielded. <br /><br />Moghedian says &quot;Do you know they are drawing Rand to attack Sammael? But when he does, he will find the other s as well, waiting to trap him between them. At least, he will find Graendal and Rahvin, I think Lanfear plays another game, one the other know nothing about.&quot; &quot;Al'Thor means to go after Rahvin. Today. This morning because he thinks Rahvin killed Morgase.&quot; &quot;...so he (Rahvin)laid a trap of his own. He has set wards through Caemlyn so if a man channels a spark, he will know.&quot; (TFoH Ch 54)<br /><br />When Rand popped into the throne room, Rahvin is surprised. He should not have been surprised that Rand can travel because Rand has a teacher. Rahvin should have been able to sense Rand with his wards. That means someone removed the wards. That means that the person who removed the wards was either a woman (even a spark of a man&#8217;s channeling would have been detected) or a man using the true power (the only man who seems to get to use the true power is Ishy) So apparently Rahvin&#8217;s easy escape becomes a flight and battle for his life.<br /><br />If it were a woman who removed his wards, the only female Forsaken it could be is Graendal. (Look to all the theories on why Graendal did it) Therefore Graendal must have been plotting with Asmodean and Lanfear to get rid of Rahvin, or as Lanfear foreshadowed, &quot;... and perhaps he (Rand) can be used to whittle away the dead wood.&quot; (TFoH prologue) When neither Lanfear nor Asmodean come through with their part, Graendal is furious. Therefore, she kills Asmodean for his betrayal. She doesn&#8217;t trumpet her kill because she is afraid that someone might discover her plot, or even ruin her plans with Sammael.<br /><br />After Graendal killed Asmodean, Graendal went off to Shayol Ghul to report to her master. (LOC Ch 6) We don&#8217;t directly know what she said, but we know the consequences. We know that the DO was pleased with Graendal (he &#8220;all but promises to make her Nae&#8217;blis&#8221;<img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wink.gif" border="0" /> When Demandred shows up at Shayol Ghul, he is surprised at what the DO knows. I think we can draw the conclusion that Graendal is the one who told the DO what he knows for Demandred&#8217;s conversation.  The DO knows that Asmodean is dead and that Rahvin was balefired. He makes no mention of Lanfear, so he may not know what happened to her, but we do know that she did something to anger him, because when she is back as Cyndane she is hobbled with a mindtrap. So, basically it was a report where Graendal said that Lanfear messed up a chance to capture Rand and has disappeared, Asmodean was working with the enemy and has been eliminated. So, now we know why Lanfear is mindtrapped and how the DO knew Asmodean was dead and Rahvin had been balefired <br /><br />So, now we know why Graendal killed Asmodean and why she chose to kill him when she did.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-18 08:21:44
subject: What Moiraine Asked The Finns in TSR
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<p>According to Moiraine's statement:<br /><i>'The answers are true,' Moiraine said slowly, 'so long as they are in regard to your own future. That much is certain.'</i> - TSR 'Into the Doorway'<br />Whether or not that is a true statement, Moiraine believed it to be true and would therefore ask only questions regarding herself.<br /><br /><br /><b>One involves Thom.</b> Recall their conversation:<br /><br /><i>'A quiet life would kill you, I think.' Sounding distinctly amused, she busied herself rearranging the folds of her skirt with small, slender hands. He had the impression she was hiding a smile. 'Tanchico will not, however. I guarantee that, and by the First Oath, you know it to be true.'</i> - TSR 'Deceptions'<br /><br /><i>'If you go with Elayne and Nynaeve, I will give you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own. And I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon.'</i> - TSR 'Deceptions'<br /><br />Perhaps Moiraine questioned about her future husband.  She mentioned this mystery man before the door when talking with Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve:<br /><br /><i>'I could wager I know the face of the man I will marry better than either of you knows that of your future husband...'<br />  The Aes Sedai appeared regretful of having spoken.  'Perhaps I only meant we share an ignorance. Do not read too much into a few words.'</i> - TSR 'Doorways'<br /><br />Here, Moiraine is WAY too vague in her response for comfort.  If she really knew nothing, she would have stated right out: &quot;No, I don't know.  I was just pointing out a common ignorance.&quot; Instead, she uses words like &quot;Perhaps&quot; and basically tries too hard to put them off.  Therefore, it's safe to assume that she knows something about a future husband, probably from a viewing by Min. (Note how she smiles and smoothes her skirts in the first quote. RJ has made too much of a point of this with other characters acting similiarly around their love interests for this to be simply coincidence) And then, right after she visits Finnland, we then see that she knows things about Thom's future. Based on her previous statement, his future MUST be related to hers in someway.  At this point in the series, the only motivation that she could have would be that she asked about a certain future husband...<br /><br /><br /><b>The second one might involve the letter from the Wise Ones:</b><br /><br /><i>'This was placed in my hand an hour gone. The young Aielman who brought it told me it was given to him a month ago, before any of us reached Tear, yet it is addressed to me by name, at the Stone of Tear...'<br />'There is more about you [Aviendha], but mainly telling me that I must see you come to them without delay. They issue commands like the Amyrlin, these Wise Ones of yours.' She made a vexed sound, which brought Elayne to wonder if the Wise Ones had tried issuing commands to the Aes Sedai, too... Something in that letter irritated the Aes Sedai...</i><br /><br />and on the next page:<br /><br /><i>Moiraine shook her head, only slightly, but still deliberate. 'I showed this to Rhuarc.'<br />  Aviendha opened her mouth, her face irate, but the Aes Sedai raised her voice and went on smoothly. 'As the letter asks me to. Only the part concerning you, of course...'<br />  Moiraine folded the letter, returning it to her belt pouch with a touch of acerbity in her manner.</i> - TSR 'Tanchico or the Tower'<br /><br /><b>Acerbity:</b> <i>Sourness or acidness of taste, character, or tone.</i><br /><br />Obviously something in that letter offended Moiraine. Elayne seemed to believe that the Wise Ones had tried to order her to do something, which would fit the reaction. In much later books, we see other Aes Sedai react similiarly when Wise Ones try to order them to do something. It seems likely that Moiraine asked the Finns whether or not she should do as the Wise Ones 'asked.' Remember how attached Moiraine is to Rand and how she must believe that he will fail without her.  At the time, she did not know what Rand planned to do and she had probably just been ordered to the Waste by the Wise Ones.<br /><br /><i>'Not a mystery, Moiraine.  Not from you and Egwene, anyway.'  He [Rand] looked at Egwene and said one word.  'Rhuidean.'<br />  Wide-eyed, the girl appeared as astounded as if she had never heard the name before.  For that matter, Moiraine felt scarcely less.</i> - TSR 'Into the Heart'<br /><br />Now, why would Moiraine feel astounded?  If she had no other connection with Rhuidean other than to tell Aviendha to go there and knowing that Egwene was headed that way as well, she would not have this reaction.  She would probably be more upset that he should be veering off his path to Tarmon Gai'don than astonished at his decision. But if she had been ordered to accompany Egwene &amp; Aviendha no matter what and the Finns had confirmed this without giving her much of an explanation, it probably would have astonished her that Rand was taking the path that she was fighting off so that she could stay with him. Her determination in the chapter to keep with him seemed more of a stubborness to stand against whatever others said in order to stay beside Rand than anything else. So, by some circumstantial evidence, we can assume that Moiraine asked the Finns about going to Rhuidean.<br /><br /><i>The smallest frown creased her smooth forehead. 'Tomorrow, we will all know more than we do tonight.'</i> -TSR 'Tanchico or the Tower'<br /> (Right before entering the doorway and after she re-read the note)<br /><br /><br /><b>Lan Must Be the Subject of Her Third Question</b> Now, this is just a theory, but she might have asked about her future with Lan. She stated to Nynaeve a couple of chapters before entering the doorway that she would not marry Lan, but she and Lan were obviously having conflicts up to this point b/c of his love for Nynaeve and his obligation to Moiraine. Moiraine probably asked how to resolve this. She and Lan seem to have much less conflict concerning this area in later books, though it might be because Nynaeve isn't around. However, if the Finns told her something along the lines, &quot;Go to Rhuidean and your problem will be solved,&quot; that would really fit into the storyline.  Remember how I mentioned that Moiraine was acting stubbornly concerning Rand and not allowing him to run off on his own?  Would a second urging by the Finns to go to Rhuidean not make her all that more determined to stay with Rand &quot;whatever the cost?&quot; Moiraine did state several times in TDR that she would glady sacrifice Perrin in order to aid Rand's success. Perhaps she had decided after visiting the Finns that she would glady sacrifice herself as well and her determination came from this.<br /><br /><br />So, in recap, Moiraine most likely asked about:  1) Future Husband (Thom)  2)Letter from Wise Ones 3) Future with Lan. Remember that even though these seem selfish and out-of-character for the normal Dragon-fixated Moiraine, she did state that she believed the questions MUST be about the questioner's own future.<br /><br />Anyways, that's the end of my long first theory. Feel free to point out my faults and anything that I missed. Thanks!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-18 08:23:20
subject: Uno is Number One
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<p>Where is Uno? He was an important character in two books, and now he has disappeared. Of course, we know he is training the heavy cavalry for Egwene's army under Garath Bryne. But Uno is destined for much more I believe.<br /><br />Uno is number one. He was the very first, back in tGH, to swear fealty to the Dragon Reborn, followed by all of the other Shienarans. RJ likes puns, so I think that explains Uno's name. But can that be the end of Uno's importance? I can't believe it. <br /><br />Think like Uno, first and foremost a soldier. He abandoned his allegence to King Easer of Shienar, in favor of Rand. Uno probably sees him as a sort of &quot;High King&quot;, a long step up from the usual run of royalty.<br /><br />But Uno then placed himself under Nynaeve's command, as Nynaeve is in his mind a follower of Rand. He agreed to accept pay from Nynaeve and to follow her orders. She is a &quot;Lord Capitan&quot; to his military mind. Elayne may or may not fit in there somewhere too, but Nynaeve is definitly on top.<br /><br />Nynaeve then allowed him to place himself under Garath Bryne, who is himself oath-bound to Egwene and the Aes Sedai. But he still sees that as secondary to his duty to Nynaeve and of course to Rand. Something to fill his time until Rand or Nynaeve calls.<br /><br />This is where it gets tricky and speculative. According to Elaida's foretelling, the Dragon Reborn will &quot;face the Amyrlin Seat and know her wrath&quot;. This probably does not refer to Elaida, but to Egwene. (Maybe she will be mad at him if he rescues her from the White Tower? ;-)<br /><br />What will Uno do if he sees Rand in confrontation with Egwene, who seems to have developed her always keen ego (another RJ pun?) to a sharp pitch. Does Egwene even see Rand as himself anymore? Or is he just another tool to be used?<br /><br /> What will Nynaeve do? She seems honestly loyal to Rand in a way that no other woman in the series does. She doesn't want anything from Rand, not love, like his three women, or a tool for her to use, like most of the other Aes Sedai, even Egwene. She just wants what is best for him. Masema, the cunning politico saw deeper than anyone when he said that Rand &quot;loves her as a mother&quot;. She feels the same in return.<br /><br />So. What will Uno do if he sees Egwene setting herself againt Rand? What will Nynaeve do? Uno is number one. Rand's first, and I believe most faithful follower. Uno has a big part yet to play.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-19 08:53:31
subject: How the Pattern works for the Light
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<p>Every turning of the wheel the Dark One has a finite probability of breaking free. However since the wheel turns forever, if this statement is true he will eventually break free (simple probability, if you have infinite tries, no matter how low the probability, if it is possible it will happen). Once he has broken free he will remake the wheel and thus be free for the rest of eternity.<br /><br />My theory is based on the idea that the Creator was not foolish enough to create the Pattern in such a way that failure was inevitable. This means that there is some contradiction in the paragraph above, the purpose of this theory is to prove what that contradiction is.<br /><br />I see three possible false statements.<br />1) The Dark One has a finite probability of breaking free.<br />2) The Wheel will turn forever.<br />3) The probability the DO will break free is a constant.<br /><br /><br />I think we can easily eliminate the first one. Perhaps the DO cannot ever break free, and simply acts to torture the world for his imprisonment. I somehow doubt this, since he has appeared to have almost escaped before.<br /><br />The second is less easy to counter. If the Dark One were to escape he would prevent the wheel from turning. It has been theorized that perhaps Rand will destroy the wheel and remake it in his image. While this is a possibility, it does not contradict the rest of my theory so I will continue.<br /><br />The third statement seems obviously false. Since each turning of the wheel is the same, shouldn't the DO have the same chance of breaking free. And even if it varied slightly from turn to turn, that would prevent the inevitable unless the probability was steadily decreasing so that at time equal to infinity the probability would be equal to zero. If the right decrease were achieved the DO might never have even a better than even chance of breaking free. But how.<br /><br />It seems that between each age, the light has no greater power than in the last. There are however small exceptions. The most obvious is the Heroes of the Horn. Arthur Hawkwing even says &quot;Sometimes the Wheel adds to our number.&quot; We could argue forever about whether or not the Heroes have to serve the light, but it certainly seems that was their purpose. Even if a hero is added only every few turnings of the wheel or even every few hundred, this means that the Light is growing stronger.<br /><br />While the Pattern might be neither good nor evil, it does seem to use luck, fate, and ta'veren to guide toward the future it seems fit. While working against the DO might seem to be acting for Good, it is really just in self interest; The destruction of the Dark One would be good for the pattern, and I have no doubt it weaves towards that future.<br /><br />Robert Jordan referred to the Pattern as a fuzzy logic device. To me this means that while it has no real intelligence, it can tell when certain things cause the Pattern to &quot;run more smoothly&quot; which in my mind means less influenced by the Dark One, or less chance of the Dark One becoming free. Perhaps over time it has figured that 3 ta'veren are better than 1 which is why 3 surrounded Rand. Perhaps this also explains the voice in Rand's head, whose knowledge has often worked towards the destruction of the Dark One.<br /><br />In conclusion, the Pattern is slowly adding to strength of the Light so that the Dark One can never be free. It does this most obviously through the Heroes of the Horn, but may also improve the Light&#8217;s cause in more subtle ways. This could mean that at some point the Light may gather enough strength to destroy the Dark One forever, or it simply may mean that with each turning of the Wheel the Dark One has a smaller and smaller chance of getting free. <br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-19 21:40:21
subject: The Real Way to Enter Finnland
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<p>Fairy mythology says you can enter Fairyland by circling three times &quot;windershins&quot; (i.e., counter-clockwise) around the entrance. That is why Brigitte stops Perrin from innocently circling the Tower of Ghenji. If I remember correctly, he had walked around it once and was halfway around again, when she yelled &quot;Stop!&quot; This is how Mat and/or Thom (or whomever) will enter the World of the Finns.<br /></p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> OK????........<br /><br />I really hope it isn't that easy. The would be something of a let down!!<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-03-24 23:59:25
subject: Seanchan will burn the Avendesora
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<p>From the Dark Prophecy written on a wall in the dungeons of Fal Dara in Shienar is the following prophecy:<br /><br />&quot;The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.&quot;<br /><br />Luthair Paendrag was known as the Hammer, and his descendants, Seanchan of the Blood, would be the &quot;seed of the Hammer.&quot; <br /><br />The only ancient tree I know of is the great chora tree Avendesora that lies in the central square of Rhuidean.<br /><br />This prophecy does not state that the tree will be killed or completely destroyed.  The tree might be only damaged before the fire is put out.</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> Makes sense! Whatcha think, wotmaniacs?<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-02 23:05:25
subject: Elayne will defeat the gholam
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<p>The <i>gholam</i> is one of the more interesting characters introduced in the more recent WoT books.  What do we know about it?  Created during the War of Power (1 of 6), for the specific purpose of killing AS.  Even the Forsaken fear it because of how deadly it is, even to them.  This particular one was released from a stasis box by one of the Forsaken, who made it heel.  It feeds on blood, preferring AS blood most of all.  It is brutal, violent, unharmed by most (possibly all) weapons, and is very, very flexible.<br /><br />It has been hurt by Mat's foxhead <i>ter'angreal</i>, which is sort of a reverse weapon in itself.  Since the <i>gholam</i> hasn't felt pain in a VERY long time, it hates Mat with a passion now.<br /><br />Everyone assumes Mat will kill the <i>gholam</i> using the foxhead, somehow.  Poppycock.  Do you really think RJ would telegraph a story like that?  No, it wouldn't make for good drama, it's too predictable.<br /><br />Each <i>ta'veren</i> has his true nemesis (aside from himself).  Perrin has the Whitecloaks (and now the Shaido and possibly Masema), Rand has the Forsaken, Mordeth/Fain and the DO, and Mat has...the <i>gholam</i>.  Yes, he has fought many people, but no one, not even the Seanchan, are true &quot;enemies&quot; who have sworn vengeance on him (no, the snakes and foxes don't count).<br /><br />At the same time, we have established <i>ad nauseum</i> that Elayne has <i>toh</i> toward Mat.  She owes him her life many times over and she <i>swears</i> that she will get the upper hand in that someday.  She wouldn't have said it so many times if something wasn't going to be done about.  So how could she repay him?  By saving his life.  And to make it &quot;worth&quot; the <i>toh</i> she has toward him, she'd have to really save his bacon in a big way.  It would have to be saving his life from his worst enemy...the <i>gholam</i>.<br /><br />So I've established (I hope) that Elayne will save Mat's life from the <i>gholam</i>.  But how will she defeat the <i>gholam</i> and not just send it scurrying off again (which would be totally unsatisfying)?  Interestingly enough, Moghedian taught her how.<br /><br />After Rand gives Elayne a thorough rogering, he brings her back a flower and Elayne puts a <i>stasis</i> weave on it to keep it beautiful forever.  This is a weave that Moghedian taught her.  If you recall, the <i>gholam</i> was brought out of a stasis box by one of the Forsaken, where it had been kept for three thousand years.  Elayne, the <i>ter'angreal</i> queen, will probably figure out how to make a stasis box (right after she repairs the <i>choedan kal</i> access key in Tanchico) and put the <i>gholam</i> in it.  Perhaps this is what was done during the War of Power.<br /><br />I don't believe it will be killed.  If it wasn't killed during the War of Power, when AS knew so much more, I doubt even balefire will do it now.  Besides, death is for the unimaginative.  So all that can be done is lock it up and drop it off one of the islands in the Ways or something.  <br /><br />I also don't believe that Mat's foxhead will kill the <i>gholam</i>, either.  Hurting it is one thing, but burning it in its magic place or something to kill it? I think not.  Again, it gives the possibility of something working, but the story can't be <i>that</i> obvious.<br /><br />If the <i>gholam</i> was killed, I would say the most obvious way of killing it would be to starve it.  If it has to feed, would it not make sense that it would grow weaker if it didn't feed, to the point of death?<br /><br />Poor Elayne has been wracking her brain how to make it up to Mat and I think it's pretty clear how she finally can.  It will happen sometime around book thirteen...</p><p><b>StoneDogAiel says:</b> I LIKE!!! That seems, to me, to be a very well thought out argument. Elayne re-creating the stasis box seems fairly likely as well. I especially like your use of the word Poppycock. It's a good word.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-05 07:28:31
subject: The Great Escape
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<p>Darkness.  Hours at a time, day after day, the think blackness surrounds and infuses him, and his strength grows in this starless night.  Only occasionally does light enter this existence; a lantern carried by guards, bringing food and water, or by a girl, barely remembered from a distant place, a different life.  More than an intrusion, however, this contact is an opportunity to spread his foul influence, to infect others with his malevolent suspicions.<br /><br />Padan Fain is an intriguing, evil character, and his escape form the dungeons of Fal Dara is one of the enduring mysteries in this series.  In order to understand how Fain managed to leave his cell, several questions need to be answered.  First, why was he released, or who has the motive to set him free?  Second, the roles of the various characters that are involved in his escape need to be examined, including the Shadowspawn, Changu, Nidao, Egwene, and Mat.  Finally, the scene that Rand discovers after Fain&#8217;s release needs to be explained.  Why are his friends alive and unfettered?  Why were the guards shredded and chewed?  Who wrote the Dark Prophecy?  By thoroughly examining all this evidence, one suspect stands out as the mastermind of this great escape &#8211; Padan Fain himself.<br /><br /><font size="-1"><b>Motive</b></font><br />Padan Fain obviously wants to secure his own release, but attempting to eliminate other suspects in this category is pertinent.  Ba&#8217;alzamon seems to be the leading contender for organizing Fain&#8217;s liberation, but several pieces of evidence point to the contrary.  First, it would have been much easier to reconnect with Fain before his journey through the Ways and subsequent imprisonment in Fal Dara.  His ability to track Rand would have been much more useful at this time, as well.  That leads to the second point.  Ba&#8217;alzamon no longer needs Fain and his abilities, because the identity and location of the Dragon Reborn is now known to the Shadow.  Finally, it seems more likely that Ba&#8217;alzamon would want Fain to remain in Fal Dara, considering the role he played in the chain of events leading to the climactic, and disastrous, showdown at the Eye of the World.  Is there a more sadistic punishment for Fain, considering his urge to track the Emond&#8217;s Field boys, then rotting in a cell while Rand, Mat and Perrin travel away from the fortress?<br /><br />Selene is another possibility, but it is difficult to conclusively prove or disprove her involvement with Fain.  For one thing, she doesn&#8217;t appear until approximately a week after Rand and his friends leave Fal Dara, and there is no direct evidence indicating that she was ever inside the fortress.  If she did free the erstwhile peddler, or ordered him set loose, it was either in direct contradiction to Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s orders, or without his knowledge.  On the other hand, Selene&#8217;s rescue occurs the day after Ba&#8217;alzamon confronts Rand in the Mirror World.  This timing could be coincidental, but it could also indicate that the two Forsaken are coordinating their moves.  Selene also encourages Rand to use &#8220;the Oneness&#8221; frequently, perhaps to become more comfortable holding saidin, and this also echoes Ba&#8217;alzamon&#8217;s fears that Rand will kill himself, or burn himself out, before he learns how to control the Power.  Ultimately, there is little to suggest that Selene is working against Ba&#8217;alzamon, other then potentially freeing Fain, while minor points such as these suggest the opposite.<br /><br />The assorted Darkfriends in Fal Dara, including Ingtar, Alviarin, Liandrin, as well as those that are part of the group carrying the Horn, are the only other possibilities.  It can be reasonably assumed that none of these individuals would free Fain independently, and orders to do so would presumably come from either Ba&#8217;alzamon or Selene.  Thus, reasons for disqualifying the Forsaken would appear to be valid for also eliminating the various Darkfriends.<br /><br /><font size="-1"><b>The Supporting Cast</b></font><br />In order to understand how Fain could have devised his own jailbreak, it is important to closely examine the roles that the various characters around him played the night of the Amyrlin&#8217;s arrival.  After all, Fain is locked inside the cell, and he has not demonstrated the ability to walk through walls, yet.  He needs to influence people outside his cell, and enlist their aid in opening that door for him.<br /><br /><i>Changu and Nidao: Were they Darkfriends?</i>  The answer is probably no.  First, there is this comment by Ingtar in <i>Leavetakings</i>: &#8220;They fought at Tarwin&#8217;s Gap, a month gone, and saved Lord Agelmar when his horse went down with Trollocs all around him.&#8221;  Then there is also Egwene&#8217;s comment in <i>Friends and Enemies</i> to consider: &#8220;They seem worse every time I come&#8230;Meaner, and more sullen.&#8221;  While this is not conclusive proof, it does show that Changu and Nidao&#8217;s treasonous and uncharacteristic behavior revolved around Fain.  Given that Fain has shown repeatedly that he can deeply affect the behavior of those around him, this strongly suggests that the guards&#8217; actions are the result of Fain&#8217;s influence, rather than allegiance to the Shadow.  They definitely have the wherewithal to open the doors to his cell, and could be responsible for massacring the guards that relieved them, as well.<br /><br /><i>Egwene: Immune to Fain&#8217;s charms?</i>  It is illogical to conclude that Fain can affect everyone he comes into contact with, while Egwene remains immune.  Yet, her behavior with Rand is completely in character for the headstrong innkeeper&#8217;s daughter, despite several previous visits to the cell chamber.  It is her actions after hiding Rand in the women&#8217;s apartments that are surprising.  When Rand awakes from his nap in the beginning of <i>Dark Prophecies</i>, Nynaeve first informs him that Egwene went to visit Fain, and a little later says, &#8220;Speaking of which, if Egwene doesn&#8217;t come back soon, she&#8217;ll have to choose between changing and being late.&#8221;  This is strange, because she told Rand two chapters earlier, &#8220;This was not a good idea, Rand&#8230;I cannot stay here with him like this, and I do not think you should, either.  There is something about him today that&#8230;&#8221;  This sentiment is clearly inconsistent with her decision to re-visit Fain with Mat.  Egwene&#8217;s behavior is also suspect, because she has recently been invited to a formal feast attended by the assorted lords and ladies of Fal Dara, various Aes Sedai, and the Amyrlin Seat herself.  Instead of excitedly preparing for the feast, bathing, picking the perfect dress, fixing her hair just right, and chatting with Nynaeve, she prefers to spend some time in a dungeon with the man that brought walking nightmares to her home.  That does not make sense!<br /><br /><i>Mat: How does he react to Fain?</i>  It is quite possible that Mat is even more susceptible to Fain than his friends or the guards.  After all, Mat&#8217;s possession of the dagger from Shadar Logoth could be a serious weakness for Fain to exploit.   This is even foreshadowed when Fain arrives in EotW: &#8220;Stopping behind Mat&#8217;s chair, Moiraine put a hand on his shoulder and bent to whisper in his ear.  Whatever she said, the tension went out of his face, and he took his hand from under his coat.&#8221; (<i>Fal Dara</i>) Mat is also the first one to recognize to the peddler, despite the fact that Rand was the only one to see him in either Baerlon or Caemlyn.  Clearly, Mat is affected by Fain, and, since Fain&#8217;s powers have increased over time, it is only reasonable to assume that Mat would be even more susceptible to Fain when he follows Egwene into the cell chamber than he was in Agelmar's dining room.  This could be doubly true, considering Moiraine&#8217;s absence in the later encounter, potentially allowing Fain to subvert Mat very quickly in the dungeons.<br /><br /><i>The Shadowspawn: What role did they play?</i>  In the events of the dungeon, they may not have played any role at all.  The Trolloc script could have been written by Fain himself.  He can probably speak the Trolloc tongue, since he can effectively command those in the group that carries the Horn away from Fal Dara.  In addition, Mordeth, at least, has previously been exposed to Trolloc writing, when an army of Shadowspawn was massacred inside Shadar Logoth, and they left &#8220;messages scratched on the walls in the Trolloc tongue&#8221;. (<i>Shadow&#8217;s Waiting</i>)  Fain may be able to use or copy these messages that mysteriously disappeared from that accursed city.  As for the remains of the guards, perhaps some were gnawed on and perhaps not.  Rand thinks that, &#8220;Some of the pieces looked chewed,&#8221; (<i>Dark Prophecy</i>) which is not entirely conclusive.  It makes little sense to pause in the middle of an extremely high-risk raid to have a snack and graffiti the walls deep in enemy territory, and, in any case, Trollocs usually take captives with them, and cook their victims before feeding.  This would be a unique case for them to have taken their meat raw.  Finally, the Fade is unlikely to free a man that will immediately usurp his leadership.  While Fain&#8217;s control is imperfect until the Myrddraal&#8217;s death, it is firm enough to drive the group due south from Fal Dara for several hours, until their first campsite.<br /><br /><font size="-1"><b>The Aftermath</b></font><br />Rand discovers a truly gruesome scene when he runs into the guard chamber.  The clues left inside the cell chamber help to explain the chain of events culminating in Fain&#8217;s escape, while other details that appear inconsistent with his self-liberation need to be explained.<br /><br /><i>Inside the cell chamber</i>.  Rand&#8217;s friends are neither dead nor captive, and he discovers them inside the cell chamber.  It even seems they were protected from the chaotic events in Fal Dara, because the door to the cell chamber was closed and bolted with them inside.  Even more surprising, they are relatively unhurt, at least physically.  Moiraine describes their wounds in <i>Dark Prophecy</i>: &#8220; &#8216;She is not badly hurt,&#8217; Moiraine said after a moment.  &#8216;She was struck here.&#8217;  She traced an area on the side of Egwene&#8217;s head, covered by her hair; Rand could see nothing different about it.&#8221;  After finishing with Egwene, Moiraine examines Mat and notices the missing dagger, but describes no physical injuries and performs no immediate healing.  <br />How was Egwene knocked unconscious from behind without even splitting her scalp, and how did Mat lose the dagger without putting up any resistance?  The answers are speculative, but if Mat is especially sensitive to Fain&#8217;s power, he may have been coerced into incapacitating Egwene as he followed her into the cell chamber.  He would have then relinquished the dagger, before swooning himself from its loss.<br />Regardless of who liberated Fain, it is difficult to explain why Mat and Egwene survived without being taken captive.  Assuming Fain freed himself, however, provides a partial explanation.  His ultimate goal is forcing Rand to follow, and leaving Mat alive, sans dagger, provides Rand with extra incentive.  This possibility is corroborated by Fain&#8217;s own thoughts in TSR: &#8220;He could feel one of those he hated out there somewhere, south, toward Emond&#8217;s Field.  Which one?  It did not matter.  Rand al&#8217;Thor was the only really important one.&#8221; (<i>Assurances</i>)  Fain seems to subordinate his other desires to his need for revenge against Rand.<br /><br /><i>The Dark Prophecy.</i>  It is possible that Fain wrote this himself, because, as Fain states, &#8220;Mordeth knows more than all of you.  Mordeth knows.&#8221; (<i>Friends and Enemies</i>)  Of course, this could be a sop for an objection to any part of this theory, but there are more indicators that bolster this particular hypothesis.  <br /><br />First, Verin comments in <i>Blood Calls Blood</i> that the tone of the prophecy is taunting.  This is consistent with Fain&#8217;s attitude towards Rand in the dungeon, as well as the message he left with Barthanes in Cairhien.  <br /><br />There is also Fain&#8217;s choice of Toman Head for his destination, as well as the selective knowledge that he exhibits once he reaches the peninsula.  While he doesn&#8217;t know the specifics about the Seanchan, he does know quite a bit about &#8220;The seed of the Hammer&#8221;.  He recognizes the banner outside of Turak&#8217;s manor, and even explains how it is subtly different from that of Hawkwing&#8217;s son.  In fact, Luthair's is a name that is first mentioned in this conversation between Fain and Turok.  Turok is so impressed he says, &#8220;You seem to know what none, neither the high nor the low, has spoken since sighting this land.  The people here speak it as one rumor among ten, but you know.  I can see it in your eyes, hear it in your voice.&#8221; (<i>The Wheel Weaves</i>)  The difference in handwriting styles may be explained by Fain&#8217;s schizophrenia.  After all, this causes him to speak in different accents and adopt different mannerisms.  It is plausible for it to cause differences in his script, as well.  Finally, Moiraine reveals some information in EotW that might explain Fain&#8217;s knowledge of the prophecy: &#8220;It may be that the Dark One, in doing what he did to Fain, impressed some part of himself on the man, perhaps even, unknowing, some part of his intent.&#8221; (<i>More Tellings of the Wheel</i>)  It might also be pertinent to question whether there is a connection between Fain and Ba&#8217;alzamon, as well, because of Rand&#8217;s dream just before the Trolloc attack in Fal Dara.  &#8220;&#8216;It is not yet done between us, al&#8217;Thor,&#8217; Ba&#8217;alzamon said, and he and Fain spoke together as one, &#8216;For you, the battle is never done.&#8217;&#8221; (<i>Dark Prophecy</i>) <br /><br /><br /><font size="-1"><b>Why was Fain surprised?</b></font> <br />This is very difficult to answer conclusively.  It seems like he should be anticipating Mat&#8217;s arrival, because he is the only ta&#8217;averen that hasn&#8217;t been to the dungeon.  Egwene has already brought Rand, and Perrin contemplates his own reaction to Fain&#8217;s cell in <i>Wolfbrother</i>.  At the end of <i>The Shadow in Shienar</i>, Fain is also anticipating the imminent arrival of the dagger Mat carries: &#8220;Padan Fain was waiting for something, something he had been awaiting for a long time.  For too long.  But not much longer.&#8221;  The answer to the question of his surprise may lie in the idea that Fain doesn&#8217;t know Mat possesses the dagger.  It is very debatable that Mat and the dagger caused Mordeth&#8217;s final reaction in <i>Shadow&#8217;s Waiting</i>, and he clearly fails to acknowledge Mat or the dagger in <i>Fal Dara</i>.<br /><br /><font size="-1"><b>Symbology of the Lantern.</b></font> <br />&#8220;On either side of the still-burning lamp, as if to make a centerpiece, sat the heads of the guards in two pools of blood.&#8221; (<i>Dark Prophecy</i>)  The lantern, and the light it provides, is an image that is used repeatedly in all of the dungeon scenes, including three separate references during Fain&#8217;s very brief POV at the end of <i>The Shadow in Shienar</i>.  It is used to highlight and contrast Fain&#8217;s evil presence in the darkness of his cell.  This final, gruesome, use of that particular symbol is very suggestive.  It seems implausible that any other characters would place such importance on the sole source of light in the windowless dungeon.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-05 07:34:41
subject: Clearing away the rubble...
body:
<p>Ok, I've been thinkin about this for a bit.  We all know Herid Fel mentioned clearing away the rubble.  Now, don't we all assume it's the Seals right?  Well, what if it's not the seals.  What if it's the DOs prison?  We all know the counter to LTTs plan was to use the Choeden Kal to make a temporary seal around the DOs prison, until a sure fire way to seal him back up was contrived.  <br /><br />Now, there is no way Rand hasn't given this some thought, cause really, we only had a few hints about Rand cleansing saidin before he up and announced it.  It goes to reason that RJ isn't giving us a PoV from Rand when he is thinking &quot;How WILL I re-seal the DOs prison?&quot;.  So it is VERY safe to assume that Rand has given it some thought, and may even have a good idea of what he needs to do.  <br /><br />In the last perspective of Rand in CoT, the seals were SPECIFICALLY mentioned, yet their location still held secret (where are they damnit!!!).  It's an obvious foreshadowing of something to do with the seals, they've been outa the main story for quite some time, and RJ wouldn't just casually bring them up.    Think about it, since Fel, we haven't heard hide nore hair about the Seals.<br /><br />So, here's my theory on HOW Rand will seal away the DO (i won't even go near how Rand is gonna die and live).  <br /><br />First off, Elaynes ability to make ter'angreal has come to VERY little frutation.  RJ droped it into a few chapters and let it be.  He's a master at giving us peices to the puzzle, and this is a BIG peice.  Why?  It's quite clear that Elayne is going to make another access key to the female Choeden Kal.  How?  Well, she's going to have a male ter'angreal to experiment with, and we know the location of 2 broken female access keys,  I don't think it will be very hard for her to figure this one out.<br /><br />Now that we have both Choeden Kal in full operation, the Last Battle starts up, and after a bit Rand realizes he has to end it in a &quot;here and now&quot; sense.  Well, let's assume some of the Seals are still in tact, so the DO isn't completely free yet.  So, Rand and Co. strike at Shayel Ghol (sp?).  Reaching the DOs prison, Rand and Alivia get ready to use the Choeden Kal... but wait, what about clearing away the rubbel?  Hesitantly, Rand takes out the remaining seals... and breaks on the spot.  Thus the DO reaches out through the bore, and causes some MAD chaos.  But we aren't done yet, there is still some rubbel to clear away.<br /><br />Tell me, what is a prison, that doesn't hold in someone completely... it's broken.   AKA, rubbel. *gasp!*  Having figured this out, Rand and Alivia have to destroy the DOs prison!  Ok, I KNOW you all think I am crazy, but you gotta think about this for a second.<br /><br />A)  The DO can touch the world through the bore, but not to a substantial degree to cause massive destruction.  I mean, the bore was drilled and THEN 100 years later, the War of Power started.<br /><br />B)  The Dragon Reborn will bring on another breaking... wait... what does THAT have to do with anything.  Oh, the Asha'man wont go mad... so how the HELL will there be another breaking?<br /><br />Yep, the DO being COMPLETELY FREE will cause a new breaking of the world.  <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, Rand and Alivia (since she IS stronger than Nynavea it only makes sense she uses the Choeden Kal, I also think this will tie in with helping Rand die), they are NOT stupid enough to let the DO be free for long.  But of course, they will have some problem wrestling the DO to the ground with the power and a MASSIVE battle raging around them, with Dreadlords HAMMERING at their ranks trying to          .  Cause we all know that the Choeden Kal and all the One Power will HAVE to have trouble dealing with the DO and his True Power.<br /><br />So, after a HUGE battle (which is truly the Last), Rand and Alivia seal the DO in a brand new, shiny prison with a warranty of over 5 ages!<br /><br />Tell me what you think.  I'm pretty sure I got it all in there.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-05 07:36:58
subject: Shaido's Doom
body:
<p>I believe that the Shaido as a clan are doomed to destruction, and that we will most likely see this in the next book in conjunction with Faile's rescue.  This prediction is based on the idea that the Aiel as a people have a special status in the Pattern, which the Shaido no longer have.  <br /><br />The key to this status is their name, Moiraine points out its importance to us:  &quot;And 'Aiel.'  'Dedicated' in the Old Tongue.  Stronger than that; it implies an oath written into your bones.  I have often wondered what the Aiel are dedicated to.&quot; (TSR, Ch.23)  The answer to the implied question here come to Rand in Rhuidean.  The Dashain Aiel were Dedicated to the cause of those ancient Aes Sedai.  After their first failing, abandoning the Way of the Leaf, Lewin declares that he is still Aiel, and he is right.  They still served that cause by protecting the Jenn Aiel, and their code of honor, ji'e'toh, was drawn from their past  Evenutally Rhuidean was founded and the cause changed to awaiting the coming of the Dragon Reborn.  When the Jenn Aiel had dwindled, the nature of that Dedication had to change.  Since the ancient Aes Sedai and the Jenn Aiel were dying, the Aiel had to bear the burden of the Dedication and the knowledge of the past, as laid out in the Prophecy of Rhuidean.  Those who refused to serve by sending their clan leaders to Rhuidean died within three generations.<br /><br />The Shaido clan and those with them follow less of ji'e'toh every day, and have rejected the Prophecy and the Dragon Reborn entirely, which seals their doom.  Like those old clans from before the agreement of Rhuidean, they will be woven out of the Pattern.  Another example of this phenomena is the false Dragons.  When the true Dragon Reborn proclaimed himself, the false dragons were immediately cast down.  In both cases, the fundamental cause is that the Pattern no longer supported the status they claimed, nor will it support the &quot;false Aiel&quot;, the Shaido.  <br /><br />They most likely would have been destroyed in Kinslayer's Dagger if not for the intervention of Sammael.  This does not disprove the theory, as we know that the Shadow and its agents can warp the usual weave of the Pattern by their actions.  Nevertheless, we see in COT that fate is beginning to catch up with the Shaido.  Perrin's forces are watching them, with Seanchan forces closing on them as well.  Also, discipline in the Shaido camp is breaking down, and strife between the Shaido and the Mera'din seems likely, especially if Faile has anything to say about it.  I expect some combination of these factors to destroy the Shaido as a fighting force in the next book.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-05 07:39:01
subject: Guaire Amalasan was Ishy
body:
<p>I'm new to the theory posting, so hang in there, everybody. I think that it's a possibility that Guiare Amalasan was in fact Ishmael. This is based on the fact that Ishmael had been temporarily released from his prison beyond the Bore with the dark one for a span of 40 years (I think). During that time there's no telling what he did that we the readers are not aware of. Let's think about it based on Guiare Amalasan's .<br /><br />He drew massive amounts of people to his banner when he proclaimed himself as the dragon reborn and conquered many lands, forcing an uprising and the involvement of ta&#8217;vern, meaning he had his way with the populous much the way t'avern do.<br /><br />The end result was Hawkwing's rise to power as well as several things after that (ie.:Seanchan)<br /><br />Overall he set in motion key events to toward the last battle. And let's not forget his influence on Hawkwing near his death.<br /><br />And suspicions of Ishmael's motives were confirmed in the Path of Daggers when he was playing Sha'rah (forgive the spelling). He had said something along the lines of &quot;How can you lose when you play both sides of the board&quot;. And that's what he's been all about from the beginning.<br /><br />This last item is not really that important but the physical appearance of Moridin and Guaire are similar.<br /><br />Ishy may very well not be Amalasan, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised if he was. He WOULD do something like that. After all, he made Rand and Co. believe he was the Dark One.<br />Or logain could be Amalasan brought back. Who knows.<br /><br />Pick it apart now.<br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-05 07:45:15
subject: Combination isn't necessary to beat the Snakes &amp; Foxes
body:
<p>I don't think Thom/Mat/Olver/whoever would need to combine music, fire, iron, and courage to beat the Aelfinn &amp; Eelfinn.<br /><br /><br />TsR Chapter 28: Tower of Ghenjei:<br /><br />&quot;All children do. At least, they do in the Two Rivers. But they give it up when they get old enough to realize there's no way to win.&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Except to break the rules,&quot; she said. &quot; 'Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind.' &quot;<br /><br />&quot;That's a line from the game. I don't understand. What does it have to do with this tower?&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Those are the ways to win against the snakes and the foxes. The game is a remembrance of old dealings. It does not matter so long as you stay away from the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. They are not evil the way the Shadow is evil, yet they are so different from humankind they might as well be. They are not to be trusted, archer. Stay clear of the Tower of Ghenjei. Avoid the World of Dreams, if you can. Dark things walk.&quot;<br /><br /><br /><br />Birgitte says it in plural.  &quot;Those are the ways.&quot;  If a combination was needed to beat them, I think she would say &quot;That is the way to beat them.&quot;  Or &quot;you have to combine those to beat them.&quot;  I think it would only take one person to go into the Tower of Ghenjei, and only one of those four things.  That doesn't mean it will <i>be</i> only one person though.  I just don't think more than one is required.  I'd personally prefer it being Thom and Mat together.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-05 07:50:22
subject: The Ivory Tower
body:
<p>Here's one for the academics.  I noticed this a long time ago, but have never seen anything written about it.<br /><br />The White Tower is organized like a university.  That's the main point of my theoy; those of you with short attention spans can hit the &quot;back&quot; button now with no loss.  For those who want to see more of the organization. . . .<br /><br />The three main divisions of the Tower are: (1) Novices, who are expected to do as they are told, do the chores no one wants to do, take classes with large groups of Novices from sisters or from Accepted, and never handle the power without the supervision of an Accepted or Aes Sedai; (2) the Accepted, who are expected to question everything (except orders from a sister), study independently under the direction of Aes Sedai, teach Novice classes, and are considered &quot;a small step above the Novices&quot; (Moiraine, New Spring); and (3) the Aes Sedai, who are considered the absolute authority on the One Power and on just about any subject, are respected by most intelligent people, are envied and mistrusted by really ignorant people, and who, on obtaining the shawl, &quot;are truly ready to begin learning&quot; (Cadsuane, New Spring).<br />Now let's look at the same kind of organization in a university.  <br />(1) The Novices are a parallel to undergraduate students, who come in knowing relatively nothing, are required to do all of the grunt work, are not always encouraged to question the graduate students or the faculty, are forced to take classes in large groups which may be taught by graduate students or by faculty, and are generally considered unfit to experiment in the academic workd without the supervision of a professor or graduate student.  (To stop all the emails I will now receive from bitter undergraduates--not all of these are true for all undergraduates, but all of them are true for at least some!)<br />(2) The Accepted are like graduate students, who teach some introductory undergraduate classes, study on their own while preparing Masters Theses and Dissertations, have to undergo a frightening kind of test to get to where they are (maybe I'm just bitter because I'm taking the GRE tomorrow), but are still considered by the academic world a small step above the baccalaureate students.<br />(3) The Aes Sedai are like the doctoral faculty.  They have spent years in training, have earned the respect of their colleagues, speak a dialect entirely unknown to those outside their discipline (ajah), and have received a badge of office that is worn around the neck and torso (the hood; not exactly like a shawl, but close enough).  They are also, by Cadsuane's reckoning, truly ready to begin learning.  PhDs in academia spend their entire life researching and learning more, perhaps with the unreachable goal of one day knowing everything.<br /><br />(Aside:  Under this theory, the Kin as Egwene wants to use them would serve as a kind of mixture between emeritus faculty and alumni.)<br /><br />The Ajahs can be considered like departments or schools within the university.  I haven't been able to associate all of them, so readers' input would be great.<br />Yellow-Medical School<br />Gray-Law School<br />White-Philosophy AND Mathematics (logic is a big part of math)<br />Blue-Political Science or Social Science<br />Brown-Liberal Arts, especially history, humanities, and natural sciences<br />Green-??<br />Red-??<br />(Unfortunately, the two I can't place as a specific discipline are the two largest ajahs in the tower. . .)<br /><br />Interestingly enough, the academic world is known as the Ivory Tower, so it wasn't too much of a stretch for RJ to go from &quot;Ivory&quot; to &quot;White&quot;.<br /><br /><br /> </p>


created: 2004-04-15 13:11:37
subject: Why women must be there and Fel's warning
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<p>First and foremost...I have borrowed heavily from previous works and I wish I had kept track from whom I got what....so please forgive me, if I have borrowed from you and do not give credit... <br /><br />So...not sure if I have the answer...but I have an opinion (perhaps not a very original one).  It relates to the fact that when LTT led the strike at SG.....it was only men.  The women opted out because of the Concord put forth by...Latra Posae Decume.  So, the seals were placed imperfectly, which may allow the DO to feel them and interact with them on some level.<br />(Strike at Shayol Ghul, Tor website)<br /> <br />How he does it...? None of us can be sure, exactly.  I feel that it's either directly or indirectly because of the Chaos Rand is causing or via some other method.<br /><br />So this lead to a few questions that I had:<br /><br />Firstly,...is Rand the Lord of Chaos?<br /> <br />Someone described the Lord of Chaos as the central figure of the Westland holiday known as the Feast of Fools.  It is a ritual in which someone is named Lord/Lady of Chaos/Misrule/Disorder. On that day, the only rule is that the &quot;Lord of Chaos&quot; must be allowed to rule no matter how silly the orders he gives or how badly he misrules.<br /><br />Perhaps, the Dark One was making allusions to this holiday when he declared Rand the embodiment of this central figure in the Feast of Fools. The idea is that Rand's rule will be temporary and chaotic, and that allowing him to reign will throw the forces of the Light into a chaotic state that will allow the Shadow an &#8220;easy&#8221; victory when the seals are finally broken. As we&#8217;ve seen Rand has caused chaos in every country he has conquered or been to.<br /><br />Cairhien was related to Rand's trip there. <br />Chaos in Andor was Rand,<br />The fighting in Arad Doman was over Rand.<br />The reports and rumors of fighting in Shara are over Rand.<br />The Borderland squabbles mentioned by Balwer were over Rand.<br />The rebellion in Tear was Rand fault. <br />The Prophet's crazy reign in Gheladan was because of Rand.<br /><br />So, Rand is (probably) by definition the Lord of Chaos.  <br /> <br />Which brings up some interesting thoughts...is it the increase in chaos that weakens the seals?   or maybe....Rand's presence?<br /> <br />If I may espouse a few ideas.  The main thought is that to seal the bore properly you would have to use both Saidar and Saidin and of course cuendillar. Well isn't it just a grand that our dear Amyrlin Seat--rebel's contingent (Egwene) has figured out how to make this important substance&#8230;but what does this have to do with Chaos&#8230;(or it&#8217;s opposite Order)?  When you blend Chaos and Order then you get a pattern of where Chaos and Order are&#8230;or aren't. Sure it might look funky...like a tye-dyed t-shirt ...  So Hey... A pattern? That sounds familiar...sort of like the Wheel of Time weaving a pattern of Order and Chaos? <br />So to make the seals as strong as possible you have to make them resistant to both Chaos and Order&#8230;<br /><br />If we reflect on how men describe Saidin and how women describe Saidar&#8230;you get the chaotic ocean of searing fire--Saidin and the orderly flowing River of cool water--Saidar&#8230;interesting?  So my thought is that while Rand will eventually re-seal the Dark One, it is precisely Rand's chaotic effect on the world that breaks the seals in the first place. Sort of ironic and appealing.<br /> <br />So...with Rand the Lord of Chaos...we get that when a Seal is about to break, it feels filthy and evil. <br />&#8220;Evil seemed to bathe her hand, stronger than ever, as if the Dark One really was trying to break through the cuendillar seal.&#8221; TFOH, Leavetakings.<br /><br />Then I read what Linda_sedai wrote and added a few comments of my own.<br /> <br />Since cuendillar is made with the One Power, and can&#8217;t be broken by using force on it, perhaps the reverse is true. <br /><br />Perhaps cuendillar is weakened when the One Power is withdrawn or absorbed  or counter-acted out of it, and this is why the Seals are crumbling.  It might be that the DO uses the True Power to counter act the One Power.<br /><br />The DO is the only being with the skill, strength and motivation to do this. He can feel the Seals (the focus points) from within his prison and has gradually absorbed the One Power out of them in turn.  So, why hasn't the DO done this before????  I don't know, but my thoughts are that it may be that Rand&#8217;s (The Dragon Reborn) presence in the pattern has allowed him to feel the focus points, otherwise he would have done so sooner, right?<br /> <br />The DO wants to turn Rand or defeat him. The DO can't do either if the Dragon hasn't been reborn that's why the time is now. Too early and the DO can't win without the Dragon there. Too late and the DO can't affect the world, or the Dragon is in too strong a position....<br /><br />This is why we get the feel of evil sense while the Seals are weakening, but not afterwards supports this. <br />&#8220;It (the Seal) was whole when we put it in the purse&#8221; said Nynaeve in TFOH, To Teach and To Learn. &#8220;We didn&#8217;t look at it,&#8221; Elayne said breathlessly, &#8220;or touch it more than we had to. It felt filthy, evil.&#8221; It no longer did.&#8221; TFOH, To Teach and To Learn.<br /><br />The feel of evil as the Seal weakens, is the feel of the DO absorbing the One Power.<br /> <br />Now you may ask...is this even possible?  Can the seals be affected...Well...<br />Why were the seals scattered in the first place? Because they were afraid that the insane male channelers would find the seals... So, if they took the precaution to hide them....then there is apparently some way to break them that men could perform.  Thus perhaps any channeler can do so&#8230; which brings up a very interesting possibility for the chain at the Tar Valon harbors....Can we say Mesaana or Black Ajah?<br /> <br />We know that cuendillar absorbs power used against it, then the use of True Power against it would cause cuendillar to absorb the True Power. Wouldn't this be a destructive force causing the slow destruction of the seals? Of course if the seals were set perfectly, maybe there would be no access for the Dark One to use the True Power on the seals, but we know the seals weren't perfect or set perfect, so over time he could pour more True Power into them. Now that they are weakening, he can escape and pour more and more of the True Power into them, so they are degrading faster...<br /> <br />So, what does this have to do with Fel?<br />Shortly before Fel was killed he gave a note to Rand that said, <br /><br />&quot;Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty. -Fel&quot; (LoC &#8216;Thorns&#8217; ).<br /><br />I think that Herid Fel may have realized that the DO knows that Rand is inadvertently weakening the seals&#8230;because his presence in the pattern allows for the DO to affect the seals. That is why the DO wants Rand to live for now and doesn't want the Forsaken interfering with Rand in anyway. It is also why he had Fel killed, because the man had realized that there was a connection between the chaos springing up around Rand and the weakening of the seals. If he were allowed to live and had told Rand then a way might be found to stop the weakening of the seals. <br /><br />So what does Fel's message mean? <br /> <br />&#8230;&#8221;Belief and Order give strength&#8221; is perhaps a reference to Saidar&#8230;remember how women describe the One Power? Ergo women must be part of the making of the seal&#8230;or setting the seals.<br />&#8220;Clear the rubble before you build&#8221; is perhaps a reference that the old seals must be cleared away and new ones put in place&#8230;<br />&#8230;and the rest is probably because Fel didn&#8217;t want Min to be around&#8230;she might get hurt when Rand faces the DO.<br /><br />So, now we get a bigger picture.  The Dragon must be in the Pattern...Chaos must reign...the seals must be made from both Saidin and Saidar...and women must be involved in the sealing of the DO's prison...to insure that they are set perfectly.<br /> <br />Now as to why they must be broke?   Like I said...I'm not sure....but the timing for the DO has to be precise... too early and the DO may not be in the best position for a triumph...or a triumph that the DO wants...this isn't good for the forces of Light, either...It may mean that the cycle continues....thus the Dragon will be born again and again ad nauseaum...until one side or the other gets it just right. Too late and the Dragon maybe too strong...for the DO... same possibility....a repeat of the cycle.<br /><br />So...Fel wanted to break them and reseal up the prison with new seals with women's help.  How and when we can only speculate... Unfortunately, Fel was taken out...and Rand (and Min) will have to figure it out.<br /> <br />That's what I got...what do you all think...any of that stuff sound reasonable?<br /><br />Once again...I'd like to thank those that I borrowed the ideas.  I basically reorgainzed what was put out before and added a few of my own thoughts and explainations.<br /><br />-JAGW <img src="http://www.msu.edu/~mackertm/wotmania/images/wheel.gif" border="0" /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> </p>


